"The key towards pure knowingness is to bring the taste of presence into the 6 entries and exits. So that what is seen, heard, touched, tasted are pervaded by a deep sense of crystal, radiance and transparency. This requires seeing through the center." - Thusness

John Tan: Yes. That (More real than real) is also an insight that turns the mind internal. Non-arising means appearances without essence similar to a reflection, like a rainbow. That (More real than real) comes with I AMness. The different between anatta and substantiality is beside appearance, there is innate feeling of some essence separate from the appearances of colors, sensations, sound, smell, taste and thoughts. Therefore one cannot be fully open and release."

- Thusness/John Tan, 2019


John Tan wrote in 2012/2013:

In ignorance, there is hearer hearing sound.

In anatta, in hearing, only sound.
Yet sound has no true inherent nature (empty),
It is an activity and is that very activity called “hearing”.
Both “hearing and sound” are pointing to the same activity.
Only when seen to have true existence on either side does confusion arise.

In Madhyamaka Emptiness, reification is seen through.
Yet the experiential state of freedom from reification is not expounded.
However one can have a taste of that freedom from arising insight of anatta since anatta is precisely the freedom from reification of Self/self (First fold Emptiness).
In anatta, seeing is simply the full scenery, in hearing only sound…
thus, always only lights, shape, colors, sounds, scents… in clean purity.
Emptying the object further (second fold) is merely dissolving subtle bond of “externality” that creates the appearance of true existence of objects outside. When “externality” is deconstructed, it is effectively a double confirmation of anatta…
…innerly coreless and outwardly empty, all appearances are still simply sound, lights, colors and rays
In thorough deconstruction, as there is no layer that reifies, there is no conceptuality. Therefore no complication, no confusion, no stains, no boundaries, no center, no sense of dual..
no sense of activity…just self arising.
All collapse into a single sphere of natural presence and spontaneous simplicity.
Whatever appears is
neither here nor now,
Neither in nor out,
Neither arises nor ceases,
In the same space…
non-local, timeless and dimensionless
Simply present…

To Jax:
The place where there is no earth, fire, wind, space, water…
is the place where the earth, fire, wind, space and water kills “You” and fully shines as its own radiance, a complete taste of itself and fully itself.

Lastly, it is interesting to get know something about Dzogchen however the jargons and tenets are far beyond me.
Just wrote due to a sudden spurt of interest, nothing intense.
Thanks for all the sharing and exchanges.
Gone!

Excerpt from http://read.84000.co/translation/UT22084-031-002.html

The Transcendent Perfection of Wisdom in Ten Thousand Lines

Daśa­sāhasrikā­prajñā­pāramitā


Chapter 13

Like Space

13.1The Blessed One addressed Senior Su­bhūti as follows: “Su­bhūti, you asked where this vehicle will come to rest. In this regard, Su­bhūti, [F.134.b] the vehicle will not come to rest anywhere. If you ask why, it is because resting is non-apprehensible, and so all things do not come to rest. On the other hand, the vehicle will come to rest by way of its non-resting. Su­bhūti, just as the expanse of reality neither comes to rest, nor does it not come to rest, similarly, Su­bhūti, the vehicle does not come to rest, nor does it not come to rest. The same refrain should be extensively applied here, just as has been indicated in the context of the previous chapter.
13.2Su­bhūti, just as non-arising neither comes to rest, nor does it not come to rest, similarly, this vehicle does not come to rest, nor does it not come to rest; in the same vein, just as non-cessation, non-signlessness, non-affliction, non-purification and non-conditioning neither come to rest, nor do they not come to rest, similarly, Su­bhūti, this vehicle does not come to rest, nor does it not come to rest. If you ask why, Su­bhūti, it is because the essential nature of the expanse of reality neither comes to rest, nor does it not come to rest. If you ask why, Su­bhūti, it is because the essential nature of the expanse of reality is empty of the essential nature of the expanse of reality. In the same vein, the essential nature of those other unconditioned phenomena, up to and including non-conditioning, is empty of non-conditioning, [and so forth]. Su­bhūti, for these reasons this [Great] Vehicle will not come to rest anywhere, but nor will it not do so. This is owing to its non-resting.
13.3“Also, Su­bhūti, you asked who will attain emancipation by means of this vehicle. In this regard, Su­bhūti, no one will attain emancipation by means of this vehicle. If you ask why, Su­bhūti, it is because all those things associated with this vehicle, and with those who would attain emancipation, and that in which emancipation is attained, are non-existent and they are non-apprehensible. [F.135.a] Since all things are accordingly non-existent and non-apprehensible, who could attain emancipation by means of anything? In what could emancipation possibly be attained? If you ask why, Su­bhūti, it is because the self and other [posited subjects], up to and including the knower and the viewer, are non-apprehensible. This being the case, the ‘self’ is never apprehensible. Similarly, [other posited subjects], from sentient beings and living creatures to knowers and viewers, are all non-apprehensible.

.......

Senior
Su­bhūti then said to the Blessed One, “Venerable Lord! This great vehicle, which is called the Great Vehicle, overpowers and attains emancipation from the world with its gods, humans, and antigods. Venerable Lord! As I understand the words spoken by the Blessed One, this Great Vehicle is equal to space. Just as in space, coming, going, and abiding are not discernible, so in this Great Vehicle, also, coming, going, and abiding are not discernible. Just as in space, the limit of the past is non-apprehensible, and the limit of the future and the intervening [present] are non-apprehensible, so in this Great Vehicle, also, the limit of the past is non-apprehensible, and the limit of the future and the intervening [present] are non-apprehensible. It is because it genuinely transcends the three times266 that this vehicle is called the Great Vehicle.”

13.14The Blessed One then replied to Senior Su­bhūti, “That is so, Su­bhūti! It is just as you have said! This vehicle is equal to space. That is why it overpowers and attains emancipation from the world with its gods, humans, and antigods. Su­bhūti, this vehicle of the bodhisattvas comprises the six transcendent perfections. [F.137.a] If you ask what these six are, they are the transcendent perfection of generosity, the transcendent perfection of ethical discipline, the transcendent perfection of tolerance, the transcendent perfection of perseverance, the transcendent perfection of meditative concentration, and the transcendent perfection of wisdom. Su­bhūti, these designate the Great Vehicle of great bodhisattva beings.
Thusness:

Christian, I see all phenomena like rainbow, they appear but are empty.  Neither exist nor not exist, they are free from extremes.

As for the word “exist”, I reserve it for “svabhāva”.  To exist is to possess essence or substance.  Essence means phenomenon possessing characteristic or not brought about by causal process or capable of standing by itself.  Substance means irreducible constituents of reality can be found.

...

Yes Christian, I understand. Whether it is expressed as “exist conventionally but ultimately empty” or “appear but r empty” is simply a matter of flavour.

What is important is the taste of seeing conventional things as empty till one’s entire body-mind is pervaded with emptiness - like space, free and unobstructed.
Malcolm wrote:

https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=19502&start=200

The Uttaratantra states:
Unconditioned, effortless,
not realized through other conditions,
endowed with wisdom, compassion and power,
buddhahood is endowed with two benefits.
But what does this really all mean?

When we examine Asanga's comments on this, he states:
When these are summarized, buddhahood is described with eight qualties. If it is asked what those eight qualities are, they are unconditioned, effortless, not realized through other conditions, wisdom, compassion, power, the abundance of one's own benefit and the abundance of others' benefit. [Buddhahood] is unconditioned because it is the nature of lacking a beginning, middle and end. It is called "effortless" because peace is endowed with the dharmakāya. It is not realized through other conditions because each person must realize it for themselves. It is wisdom because those three things are realized. [Buddhahood] is compassionate because [the Buddha] shows the path. It is powerful because it is free from suffering and affliction. The former three [unconditioned, effortless and not realized through other conditions] are for one's own benefit; the latter three [wisdom, compassion and power] are for others' benefit.

In that regard, the conditioned is fully understood as arising somewhere, and also understood as abiding and perishing. Because those do not exist [arising, abiding and perishing], buddhahood itself is unconditioned without a beginning, middle and an end. This is seen as a differentiation made through the dharmakāya. Because all proliferation and concepts are pacified, [buddhahood] is effortless [lhun gyis grub]. Buddhahood is not realized through other conditions because it is realized through wisdom oneself produced. Here, udayo [to produce] is not the arising of a desire for realization. As such, the tathāgata is unconditioned due to the truth, out of the characteristics of non-engagement, all the activities of the buddha effortlessly engaged in without impediment and without interruption for as long as samsara exists
So let us parse this out a little bit.

Asanga states in his commentary on the Uttaratantra:
...the conditioned is understood as arising somewhere, and also understood as abiding and perishing. Because those do not exist [arising, abiding and perishing], buddhahood itself is unconditioned without a beginning, middle and an end.
Buddhahood is unconditioned because the trio of arising, abiding and perishing are false. Not because in contrast to things that arise, abide and perish, buddhahood does not arise, abide and perish.

Buddhahood however has a cause, as he writes:
Buddhahood is not realized through other conditions because it is realized through wisdom oneself produced.
Buddhahood is also effortless, because, as he writes:
...all proliferation and concepts are pacified, [buddhahood] is effortless [lhun gyis grub]...As such, the tathāgata is unconditioned due to the truth; and from the characteristics of non-engagement, all the activities of the buddha are engaged in effortlessly [lhun grub], without impediment and without interruption for as long as samsara exists
As for tathāgatagarbha always existing in the continuums of sentient beings; if you think somehow tathāgatagarba is something other than or different than a sentient beings mind, there there is a fallacy of the tathāgatagarbha being something like an atman. But there is no atman in the tathāgatagarbha theory, not really. the supreme self, (paramātma) is explained very clearly in the Uttaratantra:
The supreme self is the pacification of the proliferations of self and and nonself.
But what does this mean? Asanga adds:
The perfection of self (ātmapāramitā) is known through two reasons: due to being free from proliferation of a self because of being free from the extreme of the non-buddhists and due to being free from the proliferation of nonself because of giving up the extreme of the śrāvakas.
He explains further:
From cultivating prajñāpāramita in order to turn away from seeing the five addictive aggregates as self, the non-existent self in which the others, the nonbuddhists, delight, one attains the result, the perfection of self. In this way all the others, the nonbuddhists, accept natureless things such as matter and so on as a self due to their being deceived by a characteristic of a self according to how those things are being apprehended, but that self never existed.

The Tathāgata, on the other hand, has attained the supreme perfection of the selflessness of all phenomena through the wisdom that is in accord with just how things truly are, and though there is no self according to how he sees things, he asserts a self all the time because he is never deceived by the characteristic of a self that does not exist. Making the selfless into a self is like saying "abiding through the mode of nonabiding.
There are some people who, ignoring the Nirvana Sutra's admonition to rely on the meaning rather than on the words, fall headlong into eternalism, unable to parse the Buddha's profound meaning through addiction to naive literalism.

Tathagatagarbha is just a potential to become a buddha. When we say it is has infinite qualities, this is nothing more nor less than when the Vajrapañjara praises the so called "jewel-like mind":
The jewel-like mind is tainted with
evil conceptual imputations;
but when the mind is purified it becomes pure.
Just as space cannot be destroyed,
just as is space, so too is the mind.
By activating the jewel-like mind
and meditating on the mind itself, there is the stage of buddhahood,
and in this life there will be sublime buddhahood.
There is no buddha nor a person
outside of the jewel-like mind,
the abode of consciousness is ultimate,
outside of which there isn't the slightest thing.
All buddhahood is through the mind...
Matter, sensation, perception
formations and consciousness
these all arise from the mind,
these [five] munis are not anything else.
Like a great wishfulfilling gem,
granting the results of desires and goals,
the pure original nature of the true state of the mind
bestows the result, Buddha's awakening
There is no other basis apart from this natural purity of the mind that is inseparable clarity and emptiness. We can call it whatever we want, but still this fact remains. The Lankāvatara rightly observes that tathāgatagarbha is just a name for emptiness and the ālayavijñāna for those afraid of emptiness. Jayānanda writes that ālayavijñāna is the mind that comprehends the basis, i.e. emptiness. How else can the mind be purified of evil conceptual imputations other than by realizing emptiness? Emptiness free from all extremes is the pure original nature of the true state of the mind, so why bother confusing oneself with all kinds of rhetoric? The mind itself has two aspects, emptiness and clarity, ka dag and lhun grub, and these are inseparable. This inseparable clarity and emptiness is call the ālaya in gsar ma and the basis in Nyingma. This also known as tathagatagarbha when it encased in afflictions, the dharmadhātu from its ultimate side, the ālayavijñāna from its relative side and so on. It really is not that complicated.

........

Malcolm:

Are you making the assertion that use of the term “unconditioned” renders all traditions that use the term compatible? The sugatagarbha doctrine has a few variations, for example, the Lanka equates it with the all-basis consciousness. As I understand the term, tathagatagarbha refers to the union of the mind”s clarity and emptiness. That union is unconditioned, but the mind itself is conditioned. Just this is the “god” ChNN is referring to, and nothing else, since the basis is just this.
Jared K Jones:




I would say that after thorough investigation, there are reasons in terms of philosophy, physics, and direct observation to think that  these sorts of phenomena are not mere descriptive fancy, nor so-called “skillful” lies to gain followers.


For practical examples, look at monks who do Tummo. They generate heat in a part of the body where there is no physical basis for such heat. Then they manipulate that heat at will and move it up the spinal column.

There was also a case of a very old Hindu yogi who attained Samadhi and stopped eating or drinking. He was studied by doctors in a continuous isolation chamber for 10 days, who concluded that - not only was he not dying of starvation or dehydration - he was in great health.

Further, we now have - thanks to the Dalai Lama - brain scans of yogis who have held themselves in the post-death state for several weeks. They didn’t decompose and had brain activity after death for extended periods of time, indicating consciousness when the body is medically dead.

The marathon monks of Mt. Hiei who have committed to the 7 year cycle only eat one small meal a day, a starvation died of 900-1,200 calories, while hiking between 6-16 hours a day. They should be dead, medically speaking.

We also have accounts from modern times like those found in “Yogis of Tibet” where high lamas exhibit extraordinary miracles, like leaving footprints in solid rock.

Milarepa famously did this same demonstration many times for students, to show that the external world is merely a manifestation of mind. When the mind is fully tamed and awakened, the external world is entirely fluid. His handprint - from one of his meditation caves - is attached.

Great masters often also generate relics and signs in the ashes of their funeral pyres: pearls, handprints, pieces of jade, and so on. Having known people through the grape vine who have been involved in the collection of such relics, it is done with the utmost integrity.

When you read Vimalakirti, this is not allegorical or simply a creative narrative, in my view. In relativity, the observer is at the center. Events are different physically for different observers: different numbers of particles, different speeds in time, different sizes, different sequences of events, and so on.

For one observer, x happens first, then y. For another, y first, then x. For another, xy happens at the same time. And in one perspective, neither happens. All four can occur simultaneously with regards to the same so-called “external” thing. This is just Western physics!

So, when Vimalakirti causes the room to expand or mountain chairs to appear from other realms, there is no reason that his should effect the perception of the surrounding people living in the city around him. It’s simply the activity which is possible for a mind which has realized the objects of experience are inseparable from a creative-knowing factor.

....
Honestly, it took me a long time looking at emptiness, the conventional nature of mind, and modern physics - as well as examples like the above - to say that these things are most likely true. I’m about 80% convinced.

....


Andersine Thank you! It saddens me to see Buddhists rejecting these ideas based upon our current scientific-materialist mythology.

Stanford professors are literally saying, “Is there a universe when we aren’t looking?”

And saying “Information is what the universe is made of, and information is merely mental. So, the universe is fundamentally mental.”

And we have Einstein saying (paraphrased), “The physical properties of the events depend on the observer, not only the event itself. The event can happen physically in two different ways simultaneously, depending upon two different reference frames.”

This is our own culture telling us it’s non-dual! It’s empty of self-character. The physical matter is empty and only arises with the observer. Time is empty and only occurs from a reference frame.

There is no “past event” which determines what happens now! It’s physically a different universe for all observers. Western physicists at major universities are (quite literally) saying these things.
 

========================
 

Session Start: Tuesday, April 17, 2007

(11:14 PM) AEN:    btw wat u think about the supernatural topic (someone trained in shamatha asking for advice on development of siddhis/powers)
(11:14 PM) AEN:    lol
(11:16 PM) Thusness:    i wish i can discuss with him but he is not the person for me to discuss. :)
(11:16 PM) AEN:    huh why
(11:16 PM) Thusness:    anyway unless i am an irresponsible person, i will not discuss such thing in public forum.
(11:17 PM) AEN:    oic
(11:17 PM) AEN:    why is he not for u to discuss
(11:17 PM) Thusness:    though i would very much like to.
(11:17 PM) AEN:    icic
(11:18 PM) Thusness:    infact i have been looking for someone that have perfected non-duality to writing something about non locality, i have told u b4.
(11:18 PM) AEN:    oic
(11:18 PM) AEN:    so wat r u saying.. u wan to discuss supernatural powers and non locality with someone?
(11:18 PM) AEN:    as in someone non dual
(11:19 PM) Thusness:    someone that has deep experience in non duality. :)
(11:19 PM) AEN:    icic.. so tats why u don wan to discuss with the forum guy? cos he's not non dual yet?
(11:19 PM) Thusness:    i do not wish to tok to ppl in samatha meditation.
(11:19 PM) AEN:    why
(11:20 PM) Thusness:    and only when i know the person is already enlightened. :)
(11:20 PM) Thusness:    otherwise there is no point.
(11:21 PM) Thusness:    and i do not want ppl to misinterpret the nature of these experiences.
(11:21 PM) Thusness:    i also do not like ppl to bullshit about these experiences.
(11:21 PM) Thusness:    and also do not like ppl to make fun of these experiences.
(11:21 PM) Thusness:    lol
(11:21 PM) AEN:    what u mean by bullshit and make fun
(11:21 PM) Thusness:    i might leave something b4 my i die.
(11:21 PM) AEN:    leave what?
(11:22 PM) Thusness:    my experiences and how to get access to it after non-duality.
(11:22 PM) AEN:    oic wat sort of experiences?
(11:22 PM) Thusness:    u r not enlightened yet. :P
(11:22 PM) AEN:    about supernatural powers? lol
(11:23 PM) Thusness:    yeah. :)
(11:23 PM) Thusness:    ur mind is not stable yet.
(11:23 PM) AEN:    oic btw wats the uses of supernatural powers.. how can supernatural power help one and others
(11:24 PM) AEN:    my mind not stable means?
(11:25 PM) Thusness:    with ur current state of mind, u will not be able to correctly absorb in whatever aspect.
(11:26 PM) Thusness:    whatever that is necessary are already stated in sutras
(11:26 PM) Thusness:    there is really no point bringing it out to discuss.
(11:26 PM) Thusness:    what one experiences for me is to break the perceptual bond that prevent us from knowing some subtle aspects of our mind.
(11:27 PM) Thusness:    that is too difficult to break by merely just accepting things.
(11:28 PM) Thusness:    the way to access to paranormal experiences differs.
(11:28 PM) AEN:    icic..
(11:28 PM) Thusness:    however for one that has stabilize non dual path, it is the natural progression to experience something non-local
(11:28 PM) Thusness:    some non-local aspect of our nature.
(11:29 PM) Thusness:    to understand our nature.
(11:29 PM) Thusness:    what good is there really to discuss the non local aspect of it besides that?
(11:29 PM) Thusness:    i do not like to call it supernatural power.
(11:29 PM) AEN:    oic..
(11:30 PM) Thusness:    u can c that i seldom call it so.
(11:30 PM) Thusness:    i call it non local aspects of our nature.
(11:30 PM) AEN:    icic
(11:30 PM) Thusness:    as it is part of our nature.
(11:30 PM) Thusness:    in line with emptiness.
(11:30 PM) Thusness:    i do not like to deviate from the profound teachings of emptiness.
(11:30 PM) AEN:    oic..
(11:31 PM) Thusness:    of our nature. :)
(11:31 PM) AEN:    icic
(11:31 PM) Thusness:    that is why i also do not wish to discuss with anyone that is on concentration.
(11:31 PM) Thusness:    coz it is not about wisdom and our nature.
(11:32 PM) AEN:    btw theres difference rite between someone who gain those powers from concentration, and those who become enlightened and those so called powers actually arise from prajna?
(11:32 PM) Thusness:    if u want to know, know what is our nature and practice.
(11:32 PM) AEN:    icic
(11:32 PM) Thusness:    i do not know, i have not discussed with them. :)


(11:36 PM) Thusness:    first is the realisation.
(11:36 PM) AEN:    what u mean
(11:36 PM) Thusness:    u must realise what is meant by non duality.
(11:36 PM) Thusness:    what is no-self
(11:36 PM) Thusness:    realisation.
(11:37 PM) AEN:    icic
(11:37 PM) Thusness:    like longchen
(11:37 PM) Thusness:    experience it.
(11:37 PM) Thusness:    then ur dualistic thought will continue to confuse u.
(11:37 PM) Thusness:    it is not easy to overcome
(11:37 PM) Thusness:    until it has sunk so deep into ur consciousness
(11:37 PM) AEN:    icic..
(11:38 PM) Thusness:    that one day ur realisation and action become one...
(11:38 PM) Thusness:    somehow u 'see' the pathless path towards non dual at every moment.
(11:39 PM) Thusness:    but due to attachments, the experience of non duality through wisdom will not be thorough.
(11:39 PM) Thusness:    so u must practice the other 5 paramitas
(11:39 PM) AEN:    icic..
(11:40 PM) Thusness:    then non dual in action can become one....to clear other forms of attachments and to further experience our boundless nature.
(11:40 PM) Thusness:    but some of these bonds can be cleared if one is able to have non local experiences.
(11:40 PM) AEN:    oic..
(11:41 PM) Thusness:    certain attachments will subside due to these experiences.
(11:41 PM) Thusness:    but the practice of the other 5 parimatas are more thorough.
(11:41 PM) Thusness:    non local aspects of our nature if without sufficient wisdom will have side effects.
(11:42 PM) AEN:    icic..
(11:42 PM) AEN:    what side effects
(11:42 PM) AEN:    5 paramitas how does it help
(11:42 PM) AEN:    in non attachment?
(11:42 PM) Thusness:    to me side effects is always creating perceptual bond on other aspects.
(11:42 PM) Thusness:    u eliminate one and u add 3.
(11:42 PM) Thusness:    :)
(11:42 PM) AEN:    oic...
(11:43 PM) Thusness:    if non local aspects is experienced and u unknowingly add to our ego other form of bonds, then it is quite difficult to break.
(11:44 PM) Thusness:    coz it was caused by non local experiences.
(11:44 PM) AEN:    icic..
(11:44 PM) AEN:    u mean like being identified/attached to having supernatural powers?
(11:45 PM) Thusness:    one of them.
(11:45 PM) Thusness:    or u may visit other realms and get attached?
(11:45 PM) Thusness:    or u may contact spirits and be attached and dwell with them...
(11:45 PM) AEN:    icic..
(11:45 PM) Thusness:    u do not know... when u dwell...
(11:46 PM) Thusness:    u may sink into deeper illusion into the realm that u have created without knowing
(11:46 PM) AEN:    oic..
(11:46 PM) Thusness:    it is not just a matter of ego. :)
(11:47 PM) AEN:    yea teacher chen said
(11:47 PM) Thusness:    it is our wisdom and clarity have not penetrated to the depth of seeing through these states.

========================
  •  
     


  • Soh Wei Yu Supernatural powers does exist and is not just magical thinking. But whether all stories are mythical or actually happened is another story. But as for siddhis, many people including John Tan has had experiences with them, various kinds. I have only very limited experiences with them compared to the other yogis, and mainly of a clairvoyant nature. I shall digress and just refer to others on this matter.

    http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../on...

    Excerpt:

    Daniel M. Ingram wrote:
     
    https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/318001#_19_message_319167

    ...As to crazy-ass experiences, here's a very short list: moving flames around with my mind with very Ghost-Busters-style energy blasts that accompanied the force that moved the flame, endless OBE stuff and lucid dream stuff, some of which was straight off the cushion and back to the cushion, predicting my wife having a car accident 4 years later accurately, hearing and seeing all manner of stuff (from British women chatting in their parlor about the news on the tele to pit preachers on Sunday morning talking about how the Buddhists in the monastery I was staying in would all go to Hell, and much, much more), have very profound and powerfully explanatory past-life experiences, have some bilocation-type experiences, being able to put my "ghost-hand" through a wall with all awareness and sensation perception then embodied in that rather than my usual body, being able to call up beyond-orgasmic bliss to roll through my body, being able to know to hit the breaks to slow down before I could possible see the deer about to run out in front of me on the way driving home, being able to make people do or stop doing various things (very grey morality territory here), being able to see and manipulate the energy channels in my body, being able to know who has called while the phone is ringing sometimes (lots of people can do that, actually), banishing a demon or two (whatever that means), and the endless crazy A&P stuff with my body exploding into energy and fire-works like experiences, bright lights, seeing through closed eye-lids, shaking, traveling, and many other strange things like that. There are more subtle magicks: long-range formally-cast intentions to have certain situations resolve within certain parameters, being able to feel what the person I was giving a back rub to was feeling and where the pain was, resolutions to have various jhanic experiences happen or to get stream entry or whatever, general subtle-energy manipulation in my body, rooms, situations, interactions, conversations, and even more subtle things: strange intuitions about how things will go, about what to do or not do in a certain situation. Even at times the musical things I write that just show up and seem unbidden seem magickal, but that's probably not what you were after.

    While obviously this stuff is quite interesting, in the end, as they all say and are right, it is actually things like finishing the process of insight and being kind, wise in a relative way, and helpful that make the most difference in terms of how good your life will be, though those things can help with that, if used properly and kept in perspective, which for some, like me, takes seeing them so many times I finally got somewhat (though not completely) bored by them. In short, if you have some powers experience, don't quit your day job.

    ============

    Also see interview: DY 008 – “Meditation, Magick, and the Fire Kasina” – with guest Daniel Ingram

    Thusness liked this article: http://integrateddaniel.info/magick-and-the-brahma-viharas/
  • On "Supernatural Powers" or Siddhis
    awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com
    On "Supernatural Powers" or Siddhis
    On "Supernatural Powers" or Siddhis
  • Soh Wei Yu Also, check out this book:

    http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../dying-to-be-me...


    She was not a trained yogi before her nde but her nde itself and recovery was very miraculous

    It is an interesting book a new york times bestseller
  • Dying to be Me by Anita Moorjani
    awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com
    Dying to be Me by Anita Moorjani
    Dying to be Me by Anita Moorjani
  • Soh Wei Yu A post by Daniel Ingram this year -

    “Might check out the book Real Magic, by Dean Radin, as well as some others, such as Supernormal and Entangled Minds, that is if you are interested in entertaining arguments that this stuff has long been proven and
    people just continue to reject it for fixed-paradigmatic/dogmatic reasons.

    Might get your concentration strong, like really strong, and see what happens, as there is nothing like doing the experiment yourself to inform questions and views. That is always more satisfying than reading some words on an internet forum, and can lead to other benefits as well. Basically, if you actually care about this stuff, care about it in a way that gives you the benefits that deep, caring practice leads to. If you don't actually care that much, consider moving to a forum that is more for theoretical discussions and skepticism than practice. Talk is cheap but also typically unsatisfying in these areas for all concerned.

    Haven't had anything in particular to do with Actualism in years, but did derive some interesting results from my experiments with it, and definitely don't regret that period of my practice, though I am happy that politics isn't happening now like it was then.

    Best wishes,

    Daniel”
  • Soh Wei Yu Ken Wilber, Integral Meditation:

    “These examples also point out that some of the “narrative” forms of religion that we talked about earlier are holdovers from this early Magic period in our evolution, because they take quite literally the miraculous s
    tories in the Bible, for example (such as Moses parting the Red Sea). Even to this day, some adults are attracted to magical elements in their religion—they likely got involved with the religion in the first place because they are drawn to acts like magically walking on water, raising the dead, making the blind see, turning water into wine, and multiplying loaves and fishes. The religious practices of some sects might include things like handling live poisonous snakes, with the belief that their faith will magically protect them. (Unfortunately, a leader of one of the largest of these sects recently died, in his early 40s, after being bitten by a rattlesnake in one of these rituals.) And some present-day spiritual approaches, such as those described in The Secret and What the Bleep Do We Know? contain a heavy dose of this magic, which appeals, as we will see, to what’s called the egocentric or self-aggrandizing aspect of ourselves. This fantasy magic is a hidden

    map in much of the “law of attraction” and several other New Age notions. Now, this infantile word-magic is quite different from actual paranormal capacities, such as real ESP, precognition, or telekinesis, or the value of a strongly held intention in achieving one’s goals. Strictly controlled scientific experiments have demonstrated, beyond a reasonable doubt, that some of these capacities are indeed very real.2 (footnote reference to Dr Roger Walsh, researcher in consciousness studies and related fields) But the success at these paranormal capacities seems to dramatically go down when the person is motivated by purely selfish, egocentric, narcissistic, or power drives. There’s a big difference between fantasy magic and real psychic capacities, so do keep that in mind. Now, you might have some of these essentially magical superstitious notions, but you can easily tell whether they are magical hidden maps, and not real psychic powers, by noting how many self-aggrandizing motivations are also occurring around the magic notions. If they are wishes for nothing but your own glorification, your own success, your own specialness, or for beating out all others for the prize, and you are using magical practices (which are essentially a form of exaggerated wish-fulfillment), then you might very well have a fair amount of your awareness stuck at this early stage, this magical, fantasy, egocentric stage. If so, you will take up meditation to marvelously increase your own greatness, or magically bring you boons (getting the girl, the car, the new house, the promotion), or cause you to automatically lose weight and become irresistibly gorgeous, and miraculously give you all your own egoic desires just like that!, and basically put you first and foremost in all the world (yikes!). If you have a fair number of these magical beliefs, the recommendation, of course, will be to recognize them, to recognize that hidden map in your life, see how much of your life these superstitious magical beliefs are governing, and then hold them up to direct awareness, bringing them under the sunlight of pure mindfulness and radiant presence, thus turning them into mere objects of awareness. See these beliefs as objects in your mindfulness field instead of using them as subjects, as hidden maps with which you see the world. Look at them, not through them. Look directly and intensely at them—stop looking through them or with them. Videotape them to death.”
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      Soh Wei Yu
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      Powers are possible due to dependent origination. If things were inherently produced and fixed, it would not arise due to causes and conditions and be immutable and fixed, and all appearances will be impossible. Then powers will be impossible, also. So the OP is correct.
      On the other hand some people like Jesus interpreted their miracles to have come from other power, like an omnipotent God. This is not how Buddhadharma understands siddhis. Likewise, siddhis does not arise due to an all powerful Self or agent, as there is none.
      In buddhism, powers arise due to the dependent origination and cultivation of the four bases of powers.
      As Malcolm said years ago, “Nevertheless, Buddhism is a species of naturalism, asserting that everything that occurs can be explained without resort to supernatural explanations.”
      Of course, he is not negating powers, but he also pointed out that even siddhis were “produced” by causes and conditions, particularly samadhi
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      Soh Wei Yu
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      More on the naturalism part, Malcolm wrote:
      “Meanings are invented, consensual and conventional.
      As for your second sentence, it is very questionable that metaphysical naturalism is necessarily grounded in utilitarianism — I think you are making too broad a claim. For example, take this definition in which there is no species of utilitarianism mentioned:
      Naturalism, in recent usage, is a species of philosophical monism according to which whatever exists or happens is natural in the sense of being susceptible to explanation through methods which, although paradigmatically exemplified in the natural sciences, are continuous from domain to domain of objects and events. Hence, naturalism is polemically defined as repudiating the view that there exists or could exist any entities which lie, in principle, beyond the scope of scientific explanation.
      Buddhadharma [and Jaindharma] in this respect is also a species of metaphysical naturalism — in Buddhadharma there is no mystery precisely because "whatever exists or happens is natural" and there does not exist nor could exist "any entities which lie, in principle, beyond the scope of Dharma explanation."
      In other religions however [sans philosophical Taoism and Confucism], there is a profound mystery, God, through whose agency all things are created.
      Indeed, this is one of the reasons why Buddhadharma is so appealing to westerners with liberal educations. The naturalism of Buddhadharma and philosophical Taoism fit well into our already metaphysically naturalist predilections.
      HH Dalai Lama exemplifies this view with his confidence that indeed science can explain confirm, and justify any and all Buddhist beliefs, but even more than that, he recommends abandoning any Buddhist tenets that are directly contradicted by scientific explanation and found to be definitely false from a scientific point of view.

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      Soh Wei Yu
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      Also as i said to JT:


      [5:11 PM, 11/10/2020] Soh Wei Yu: I think those who experience all is mind but not anatta and especially total exertion are more prone to solipsism and idealism
      [6:50 PM, 11/10/2020] John Tan: Yes.
      [6:52 PM, 11/10/2020] John Tan: No privileging into either pole.

      6:52PM Ok The R U I A S D F G K L X c B N 123 space return'

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      Soh Wei Yu
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      Not implying the OP is falling into that trap though, but my previous discussion with Mr. A 2 years ago gave me an impression that his view is skewed towards that.
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        One of the first 'students' of John Tan realised anatta in 2006 after being stuck at I AM for many years prior to meeting John Tan. Previously he was into a mystical group belonging to the Rosicrucian and Illuminati, the teachers were quite deeply experienced in the I AM to non dual and impersonality but not into anatta. The teachers were psychic and confirmed Sim Pern Chong's memories of his past lives (that is, they could see Sim's past lives as well). That mystical group's website: http://www.plotinus.com/

        (Sim Pern Chong's writings: http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/search/label/Simpo%2FLongchen)

        Sim Pern Chong remembered many of his past lives in incredible details as he relived his past lives and not merely recalled vague scenes. He also knew how his current life wife, daughter, etc were related to him in his previous lives, also his daughter exhibits psychic ability even at a young age (John Tan commented the child seems just like the father). His wife realised the I AM many years ago. He actually was a Nyingma monk who practiced Dzogchen two lifetimes ago. I think he told me before about practicing in the Tibetan highlands overlooking vast expanse. This life, he got acquinted with Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche again in 2012 when I told him to join me for that retreat. But it explains his interest in Dzogchen even way back in maybe early 2000s.
        Being a Tibetan monk in that lifetime, that means he surely had taken refuge, made bodhicitta aspiration etc in his previous life. But that didn't mean he could attain liberation in that lifetime, as most people do not. Nor did he realise anatta or emptiness or attain first bhumi, etc. In fact he remember that he only attained the I AM realization in his Tibetan monk lifetime, which was the first life he was into spirituality (the previous lifetimes before that had events leading up or causing his spiritual search in subsequent life but I shall digress).
        In the immediate past life, he did not encounter Buddhism but was reborn in western Europe, I believe France. He was fighting in world war 1 in the trenches in a scene which he relived, meaning it was incredibly real and vividly experienced as if he was 'there' again, and in that scene he could recall running across trenches, pausing for a while and thinking of his wife (I think), a sad scene. This caused some trauma for him and explained his anxieties about war in this life, and his past life recall helped solve his traumas. In that lifetime, he also realised I AM only and was involved in mysticism, which explained his current lifetime links with the mystical groups prior to meeting John Tan.
        Having I AM realization does not ensure some kind of mastery of rebirth or something like that. It is not even the first bhumi. That being said, Sim Pern Chong did recall some subconscious level (which he call 'Alaya') planning or blueprint of rebirth prior to appearing in this life. I actually had that sort of impression before, a brief one, of the spiritual purpose of my incarnation, as if there was some kind of plan or purpose. But I certainly am not a conscious emanation of some high level being, flawless, that was enlightened from birth.
        This life, he came to know John Tan through an internet forum in 2004 and realised anatta and emptiness.
        Malcolm said those who encounter Dzogchen teachings have had past life karmic connections with the teachings. Most practitioners that do their due diligence will attain liberation at the bardo. The very "lousy" ones will attain liberation within three lifetimes, so it does not mean you know Dzogchen then that means we are 'advanced' or special. It means we are the most lousy practitioners and didn't get liberated in the bardo or attain rainbow body in the previous life. Maybe we all had such links from previous lifetimes.
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        Sim Pern Chong also foresaw this covid pandemic in a meditation vision more than a decade ago which he posted in sgForums - I still remember that post, a vision where all airplanes and transport stopped (as happened during the lockdown). He also had visions that preluded the 2004 tsunami, and this time he had another vision about the impact of global warming. It is catastrophic and I shall not divulge too much details. Humanity must work/cooperate with nature to survive this ordeal, it is existential. Personally I only knew from my meditation about a month+ before the worldwide outbreak of covid as I wrote in https://www.facebook.com/cyberlogy/posts/10163337237870226?__cft__[0]=AZWvDK4OQVQHBqnRdrbOW-ArbA3OCHFxMrA4MB5YYr8XKD88dw24zMr0_9ALNKeTsDEBQ2axJepO78DQPCRGcKfNAHmwbe1lnv_qZkUI8jZWZVNG0qLJH_Jz-nZAbzJH8Ig&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R . I forewarned a few people.
        I used to have more dreams of clarity and such visions in practice in the past during army days when I had much more time to meditate.
        Speaking of which, I shall go meditate now.
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      • Soh Wei Yu
        bro, this is the best post you’ve written yet!
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        I think it should be common that many of us have practiced for many lifetimes, although not always.
        I think back in 2012, the moment John Tan saw Kyle Dixon on skype video the first time back then, he psychically intuited that Kyle had a past life connection with Milarepa. In recent years John Tan reminded me about it again. According to wiki Milarepa lived in the 11th century. If this is true then maybe kyle has been practicing dharma for many lifetimes. John Tan also psychically knew a lot of things about me just by looking at me (things in this life or recent events that happened to me that was unspoken, which I could confirm was true and was shocked he knew about them).
        On the other hand some like Daniel Ingram claimed not to have been very spiritual in recent lifetimes.*
        Even some other people like j krishnamurti remembered being a student, a monk of Buddha - http://www.buddhanet.net/bvk_study/bvk22a.htm
        P.s. this is not a superiority contest of who has practiced for more lifetimes, just sharing some interesting stories.
        *daniel ingram:
        As to world-cycles or the like, my past life experiences line up along the following lines, if you believe in such experiences having validity:
        1) This life human.
        2) Last life some sort of moderately powerful, clearly somewhat debauched male jealous god/sorcerer of some kind that was stabbed in the back with a dagger by a woman who he had wronged in some way, I think.
        3) Some sort of mother skunk-like animal that was eaten by a large black dog or wolf.
        4) Some sort of mother bat that was killed when the rock it was clinging to at the top of the cave fell to the floor.
        5) Some sort of grim, gigantic, armored skeletal titan-like thing that ran tirelessly through space swinging a gigantic sword and doing battle nearly continuously without sleep for hundreds of thousands of years that was killed by something like a dragon.
        6) Some gigantic, gelatinous, multi-tentacled, very alien being living in a very dark place for a very long time, probably under water, I think.
        Other than some sense that the skunk-thing and the bat-thing were virtuous mothers, I have no sense that there was any profound previous dharmic development at least back that far, and, in fact, have the distinct sense that the previous one was a bit of a cad and not very ethical. Take that all for what you will.”
        Daniel
        The Buddha, Vipassana, J.Krishnamurti: Teachings - Krishnamurti; Dhamma - Buddha
        BUDDHANET.NET
        The Buddha, Vipassana, J.Krishnamurti: Teachings - Krishnamurti; Dhamma - Buddha
        The Buddha, Vipassana, J.Krishnamurti: Teachings - Krishnamurti; Dhamma - Buddha
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          Aayush Jain
          I better not write more otherwise it will turn into 西游记。Especially if I talk about my own experiences and John's experiences of meeting and receiving teachings from Buddhas and Bodhisattvas in dreams of clarity, meditation, etc 🤣 but I think these are not very rare and has been written in books.
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      So you mean to say that past lives is actually a "valid mode of arising" conventionally. Right?
      yes.. also sim pern chong had many very interesting accounts. he could remember in details his past lives and how his wife, his daughter and his experiences in this life were all linked to specific karmic causes and relations in previous life
      and how they were related in previous life and why they meet again etc
      Is this not same as past life regression therapy?
      Brain Weiss stuff?
      not the same. there are two types, there is past life regression therapy that leads to trance like hypnotic states. that is also one way of retrieving past life memories. but for sim pern chong, his is also by way of entering samadhi and jhana, and when recalled through this way the memories were hyper vivid and real through whole body remembering, as if he was reliving the event
      or as john tan also said about another practitioner in 2006,
      Ok.
      Session Start: Sat Feb 18 21:32:54 2006 Session Ident: ^john^ <ZeN`n1th> hi did u see the meditation post? <^john^> just read through. <^john^> :) <^john^> she is not experiencing it correctly and becoz the foundation is still not strong enough, she will face problem later. <ZeN`n1th> oic what she experienced <ZeN`n1th> jhanas isit <^john^> it is a sort of absorption. <^john^> but it is not like longchen [sim pern chong] that profound. <ZeN`n1th> oic.. <ZeN`n1th> absorption = jhana ? <ZeN`n1th> what u mean by absorption <^john^> and with her current stage, it is not advisable to know about reincarnation and past life regression. <^john^> yeah <ZeN`n1th> she wanted to know meh?? <ZeN`n1th> btw why not advisable to know about reincarnation? <^john^> but that is my advise, some ppl are more attached to mystical experiences. :) <ZeN`n1th> hmm but longchen [Sim Pern Chong]'s experience is not jhana rite? <ZeN`n1th> oic.. <^john^> becoz she will not be able to cope and understand the full meaning when she recall. :) <ZeN`n1th> oic <^john^> when one reaches a stage of absorption, at that moment, as described in the text she posted, he will be able to recall. <^john^> the entire body will recall, not just the mind. :) <^john^> memories is not just in the mind. :P <ZeN`n1th> oic... <^john^> anyway not to indulge into such thing first, it will not be fruitful for practice. <^john^> 🙂
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    • this is also an interesting article:


      https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books3/Ajahn_Brahm_Buddhism_and_Science.htm
      If you had just one person who had been confirmed as medically dead who could describe to the doctors, as soon as they were revived, what had been said, and done during that period of death, wouldn't that be pretty convincing? When I was doing elementary particle physics there was a theory that required for its proof the existence of what was called the 'W' particle. At the cyclotron in Geneva, CERN funded a huge research project, smashing atoms together with an enormous particle accelerator, to try and find one of these 'W' particles. They spent literally hundreds of millions of pounds on this project. They found one, just one 'W' particle. I don't think they have found another since. But once they found one 'W' particle, the researchers involved in that project were given Nobel prizes for physics. They had proved the theory by just finding the one 'W' particle. That's good science. Just one is enough to prove the theory.

      When it comes to things we don't like to believe, they call just one experience, one clear factual undeniable experience, an anomaly. Anomaly is a word in science for disconcerting evidence that we can put in the back of a filing cabinet and not look at again, because it's threatens our world view. It undermines what we want to believe. It is threatening to our dogma. However, an essential part of the scientific method is that theories have to be abandoned in favour of the evidence, in respect of the facts. The point is that the evidence for a mind independent of the brain is there. But once we admit that evidence, and follow the scientific method, then many cherished theories, what we call 'sacred cows' will have to be abandoned.

      ...

      If you want to look at the scientific evidence for rebirth, check out Professor Ian Stevenson. He spent his whole life researching rebirth on a solid scientific basis at the University of Virginia.[4] Chester Carlson, the inventor of xerography, (encouraged by his wife) offered funds for an endowed chair at the University to enabled Professor Stevenson to devote himself full-time to such research. If it weren't for the fact that people do not want to believe in rebirth, Dr. Ian Stevenson would be a world famous scientist now. He even spent a couple of years as a visiting fellow of Magdalene College in Oxford, so you can see that this is not just some weird professor; he has all of the credentials of a respected Western academic.

      Dr. Stevenson has over 3000 cases on his files. One interesting example was the very clear case of a man who remembered many details from his past life, with no way of gaining that information from any other source. That person died only a few weeks before he was reborn! Which raises the question, for all those months that the foetus was in the womb, who was it? As far as Buddhism is concerned, the mother kept that foetus going with her own stream of consciousness. But when another stream of consciousness entered, then the foetus became the new person. That is one case where the stream of consciousness entered the mother's womb when the foetus was almost fully developed. That can happen. That was understood by Buddhism twenty five centuries ago. If the stream of consciousness doesn't enter the mother's womb, the child is a stillborn. There is a heap of evidence supporting that.
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      [5/12/15, 8:23:33 PM] John Tan: Go read Dr. Sam Parnia
      [5/12/15, 8:26:27 PM] John Tan: He is very good like Ian Stevenson...a dr, cardiologists  unlike a psychiatrist ...that deals with death everyday ... Dealing with cardio arrest and pronounced clinically dead...and a respected person in his field
      [5/12/15, 8:31:51 PM] John Tan: Instead of Sam Harris
      [5/12/15, 8:31:53 PM] John Tan: Lol
      [5/12/15, 8:31:59 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Lol
      [5/12/15, 8:32:11 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Am going to get ian stevensons book
      [5/12/15, 8:33:20 PM] John Tan: Just like when u do research on past life experiences documented by ian Stevenson and his assistant ... Read his assistant account...his assistant dead if I m not wrong just to get some real account
      [5/12/15, 8:33:30 PM] John Tan: Not those kind of bullshit
      [5/12/15, 8:34:54 PM] John Tan: Obe and nde r not those seeing light tunnels ... Feeling peaceful...or passing electricity to pineal gland region to induce certain experience ...
      [5/12/15, 8:35:43 PM] John Tan: I m interested in those accounts that dr Sam Parnia is talking abt
      [5/12/15, 8:37:45 PM] John Tan: Where blood stop...brain activities stop...there is no possibility of any registering of memories or any  sensory function because it is clinically impossible because he is a cardiologist and dealing with how to get ppl back to life ... He needs to know all sort of signs there and then...
      [5/12/15, 8:38:34 PM] John Tan: We r talking abt life and death trying resuscitate life in emergency room...lol
      [5/12/15, 8:39:11 PM] John Tan: Not as an academician taking abt this and that as a story
      [5/12/15, 8:43:39 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
      [5/12/15, 8:49:50 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Sam harris said about ian stevensons,
      [5/12/15, 8:49:55 PM] Soh Wei Yu: elaborate fraud, or something interesting is going on," Harris says. "Most scientists would say this doesn't happen. Most would say that if it does happen, it's a case of fraud. ... It's hard to see why anyone would be perpetrating a fraud -- everyone was made miserable by this [xenoglossy] phenomenon." Pressed, he admits that some of the details might after all be "fishy."
      [5/12/15, 8:50:16 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Either he is a victim of truly elaborate fraud, or something interesting is going on," Harris says. "Most scientists would say this doesn't happen. Most would say that if it does happen, it's a case of fraud. ... It's hard to see why anyone would be perpetrating a fraud -- everyone was made miserable by this [xenoglossy] phenomenon." Pressed, he admits that some of the details might after all be "fishy."
      [5/12/15, 8:51:02 PM] John Tan: Meaning?
      [5/12/15, 8:51:55 PM] Soh Wei Yu: I think he thinks ian stevesons study might convincingly suggest reincarnation but still hs his doubts
      [5/12/15, 8:55:27 PM] John Tan: There will always b doubt becoz he is a sceptic ...
      [5/12/15, 8:56:45 PM] John Tan: And Ian Stevenson books r scientific studies, not science.  He is a scientist but understand that science cannot prove anything like that besides verification.
      [5/12/15, 8:58:00 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
      [5/12/15, 8:59:16 PM] John Tan: How is one to prove past life except by verification?  Unlike OBE experiences, where medical definition of "death" is clear and ppl start resuscitating ppl back to life... Hearing true expert in the field is imp.
      [5/12/15, 9:41:21 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
      [5/12/15, 9:42:57 PM] Soh Wei Yu: I guess the problem with obe is they may cast doubt whether the obe happened moments before of after the medical death. but i dont see how they can explain things like witnessing medical procedures accurately in obe
      [5/12/15, 9:43:26 PM] John Tan: Not what u to think lah
      [5/12/15, 9:43:47 PM] John Tan: Go listen to Sam parnia in YouTube
      [5/12/15, 9:43:56 PM] John Tan: There r some that I like
      [5/12/15, 9:44:03 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic.. ok
      [5/12/15, 9:45:35 PM] John Tan: There r only 3 ways, one is respected expert and one u, by religious faith and lastly practice experience urself.
      [5/12/15, 9:46:25 PM] John Tan: Sceptical is as bulshiting as taking by faith to me.
      [5/12/15, 9:46:39 PM] John Tan: My approach is neither
      [5/12/15, 9:46:54 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
      [5/12/15, 9:47:06 PM] John Tan: Practice and listening to respected experts
      [5/12/15, 9:49:14 PM] John Tan: I also like dr Peter Fenwick
      [5/12/15, 9:57:01 PM] John Tan: There is another one Dr Pim Van Lommel
      [5/12/15, 10:14:22 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic.. will look into them
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    • See: https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/summary_of_evidence 

      Evidence for the Afterlife