How does the AtR system view the importance and relation of samadhi pre-Anatta and after Anatta realisation?

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  • Geoffrey Levens
    What is "AtR system " system? Search shows up a whole bunch of different things, none related to spiritual development. Thank you


    Pablo Pintabona
    Geoffrey Levens https://atr-abridgedguide.blogspot.com/.../this-is... not finished yet, but will let you know what it's meant by AtR
    ATR-ABRIDGEDGUIDE.BLOGSPOT.COM
    AtR Guide - abridged version
    AtR Guide - abridged version




  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    I often let people read this article as introduction to some of the phases of insights in AtR (awakening to reality):
    Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment
    Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment

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  • Aditya Prasad
    Geoffrey Levens AtR is shorthand for "awakening to reality" (the name of this group).







  • David Tsin Aname
    ..well there really wouldn’t be a need for this distinction if you’ve realized no self. So the question is kind of confusing..


    Anna Mukherjee
    Author
    David Tsin Aname Awakening to Reality stages synthesise many Buddhist and neo-advaita traditions. There is a guide to various insights along the path but I didn't come much across samadhi reading through the blog, therefore my question. I'm just curious, that's all. Samadhi is crucial in facilitating insights, but insights are not enough. In Zen, for example, the realisation of non self is not a final end but a mere beginning. Samadhi becomes crucial in integrating the insight so it's fully embodied and expressed in every activity, in wakefulness, dream and all the states so it becomes seamless practice-enlightement 24hr.


    Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    Anatta is the ninth oxherding picture commentary here: http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../the-ten-ox-herding...
    It is usually not the beginning phase of practice.
    But indeed it is not the end of practice but the beginning of ongoing practice-enlightenment
    The Ten Ox-Herding Pictures
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    The Ten Ox-Herding Pictures
    The Ten Ox-Herding Pictures

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  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    In the stages of 3 to 8, the practitioner is flipflopping between I AM, one mind and no mind.
    Suddenly, anatta in stage 9 makes no mind totally effortless, totally without entry or exit.
    The zen master then remarked that at that stage practice and enlightenment becomes unnecessary because there is the realisation of anatta as “always already so from the beginning”.
    But I must say that is not the full picture. It is rather ongoing practice-enlightenment, spontaneous and effortless. Not no practice.
    Even the 10th stage is just ongoing practice-enlightenment and not a finality. This actualization goes on and on whether in sitting or in the marketplace.


  • Robert Young
    New to this group. What is the AtR system?


    Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    I often let people read this article as introduction to some of the phases of insights in AtR (awakening to reality):
    Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment
    Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment

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  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    That said, I never doubted the importance of “concentration & absorption” in spiritual practices. It is also true that the strength of uninterrupted concentration may not be there even for one with insights (especially when one have just begun to have nondual realisations and the insight into emptiness is not yet there), and it has to go hand in hand with their new found insight of nonduality for stability, and also move into various graduation of nonduality. As mentioned earlier, there are no stages/appearances that are purer than any others – every state is equally pure and non-dual in naSSSSture. When the mind grasps pure awareness as ‘formless’, ‘thoughtless’, ‘attributeless’, and as the background reality.... the ‘fabric’ and ‘texture’ of pristine awareness as ‘forms’ is then missed. Nevertheless, whatever you commented is crucial especially for the first 3 (Thusness’s) stages of experience, and in these stages the problem would certainly be the lack of sustained meditation concentration as well as the tendency of trying to grasp intellectually... which is also why Thusness often emphasizes the importance of sitting.
    The first 3 stages are before the arising of non-dual insight and the purpose of sustainability is to create sufficient gap between 2 moments of thoughts to allow the sensation of contrast between conceptual/non-conceptuality for the thinking mind to realize the possibility of going pre-symbolic thereby loosening its stubborn grips of a dualistic framework.
    Sustained bare attention also gave rise to the realization that ‘inner’, ‘outer’, ‘space’, ‘time’ and even ‘body’ and ‘mind’ are all mere constructs. Freeing from these constructs, also give rise to the condition for non-dual insight to arise.
    For the first 3 stages, practice takes the form of striving towards a certain stage of perfection whereas stages 4 onwards, practice moves from ‘efforting’ to natural luminosity and spontaneity.
    As to what led to jhanic bliss, I would like to say that regardless of samatha or vipassana practices, true blissful absorptive experiences are the result of dissolution of self and subject-object split. For non-dualists, this blissful absorptive experience takes a form of clarity-absorption which is mentioned in one of the Thusness posts in my friend Longchen’s forum (http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../different...). It is difficult to explain and I will not speculate further what that is beyond me. It should also be mentioned however at a deeper level of non-dual realisation, when true spontaneity is realised, and psychological death is complete, one will overcome the tendency of grasping on the conscious and the three states (waking, dream, deep dreamless sleep) becomes one. He will also realize that it is needless to maintain an uninterrupted state of conscious witnessing awareness when the true nature of Awareness is revealed, as Thusness and Longchen have said.
    Well said! Speak no more and experience fully!
    Rest.
    Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment
    Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment

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  • Kyoshu Okan Özaydin
    Since you're also in the Rinzai group, I would also suggest that you ask the same question to Meido Roshi. Bringing the anatta realization to your entire life, 24/7, is the importance of samadhi.


    Anna Mukherjee
    Author
    Kyoshu Okan Özaydin I've watched his teaching on samadhi, great pointers. I was just curious if there's anything specific on AtR blog on this.







  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    After actual anatta realisation, the state of no mind becomes all the time so.
    But it does not indicate the end of practice nor does it obviate the need to continue training samadhi. It simply takes a different role and becomes a direct path of practice-enlightenment.
    And
    And
    A Peak Experience of No Mind vs the Realization of Anatta / The Dharma Seal of Always Already No-Mind
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    A Peak Experience of No Mind vs the Realization of Anatta / The Dharma Seal of Always Already No-Mind
    A Peak Experience of No Mind vs the Realization of Anatta / The Dharma Seal of Always Already No-Mind

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  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    John tan meditates one hour in the morning and one hour at night.
    Also although he never advertises his practice, he did tell me verbally over a decade ago that the moment he sits, he enters very deep samadhi in less than a minute
    So anyone who cant do this should continue to sit and sit
    Of course, after anatta breakthrough the equipoise and post equipoise are mixed and becomes inseparable much like how mahamudra describes one taste. There is no entry or exit. And you should experience the insight-absorption samadhi even in daily life with the insight of anatta. Then continue practicing. Its a 24-7 practice although not in an efforting way.

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  • Anna Mukherjee
    Author
    Soh Wei Yu thank you for the links and pointers.

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