Session Start: Sunday, August 31, 2008

(2:08 PM) Thusness: wah u wrote so much about one taste. :P

(2:08 PM) Thusness: kok ur head!

(2:10 PM) AEN: huh where

(2:10 PM) AEN: lol

(2:10 PM) AEN: i just updated my post

(2:10 PM) AEN: removed some part and added some part

(2:10 PM) Thusness: every place. :P

(2:11 PM) Thusness: next time must do a constant check on the url awakeningtoreality. :P

(2:11 PM) Thusness: One Taste here and there...kok ur head

(2:11 PM) AEN: orh u mean google haha

(2:11 PM) AEN: i tot u mean sgforums

(2:11 PM) Thusness: yeah.  Although ken wilber experience is non-dual, it is not exactly One Taste yet.

(2:11 PM) AEN: oic y

(2:11 PM) AEN: one taste include emptiness?

(2:12 PM) Thusness: yes din i tell u?

(2:12 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:13 PM) Thusness: The non-duality of advaita sort of understanding is different from buddhism.

(2:13 PM) Thusness: how could one reaches the phase of One Taste without understanding the emptiness nature?

(2:14 PM) Thusness: The One Taste realisation is of 2 parts: No object/subject split and both object/subject are empty of any inherent existence.

(2:15 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:15 PM) Thusness: Penetrating these 2 aspects, insight arises of the One Taste.

(2:15 PM) Thusness: Since when did i tell u about Advaita sort of understanding is non-dual of Buddhism?

(2:15 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:16 PM) Thusness: So many times I told u it is the empty nature that Buddha came to teach us, not only the luminosity aspect.

(2:16 PM) Thusness: The non-dual luminous nature is described all over the Vedas

(2:17 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:17 PM) Thusness: kok ur head!

(2:18 PM) Thusness: Anyone not talking about the 3 seals, understanding the anatta sort of non-duality is not talking about Buddhism.

(2:19 PM) Thusness: anyone that lead to the understanding of Brahman is deluded in Buddhist perspective.  The One Mind, the One Reality is the non-inherent in nature.

(2:19 PM) Thusness: it should not be understood from a dualistic and inherent perspective.

(2:19 PM) AEN: oic but ken wilber talk about brahman meh :P

(2:20 PM) Thusness: Yes.

(2:20 PM) AEN: oic

(2:21 PM) Thusness: Therefore the experience is non-dual but the insight isn't.

(2:21 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:23 PM) AEN: so next time i shld show them the charlie singer article instead :P

(2:23 PM) Thusness: Charlie still need further refinement but it is already very good.

(2:24 PM) Thusness: There are not many good articles.

(2:24 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:24 PM) Thusness: Many do not have the clarity of the differences

(2:25 PM) Thusness: They are unable to discern correctly the difference.  In terms of experience and insight.

(2:25 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:25 PM) Thusness: U have to be careful when telling ppl.

(2:25 PM) Thusness: Fortunately u always quoted the bahiya sutta...haahah

(2:26 PM) AEN: oic.. haha

(2:26 PM) Thusness: it is both. :)

(2:26 PM) AEN: wat u mean both

(2:26 PM) Thusness: both non-dual in terms of experience and insight

(2:26 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:28 PM) AEN: the insight means theres insight into emptiness

(2:28 PM) AEN: ?

(2:28 PM) Thusness: yes

(2:28 PM) Thusness: so far the best to me is still Ajahn Amaro.  In terms of practical insight and experience.

(2:29 PM) Thusness: Clear and precise.

(2:29 PM) AEN: oic

(2:29 PM) AEN: but u said his e book not so gd?

(2:29 PM) Thusness: But that 'source' must be fully replaced with DO.

(2:29 PM) AEN: oic

(2:29 PM) Thusness: yes.

(2:29 PM) Thusness: That is the only problem.

(2:29 PM) Thusness: But he is still not wrong.

(2:29 PM) AEN: why not wrong

(2:29 PM) Thusness: The "I" is just a luminous clarity.

(2:30 PM) Thusness: In his mind, there is no sense of independence but still not thorough.

(2:30 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:31 PM) Thusness: Means he knows what Awareness is exactly.  Therefore when he said "I AM", u should not mistake him as referring to that stage 1.

(2:31 PM) Thusness: Though to him it is the same.

(2:32 PM) Thusness: But he is using it as if a practitioner has understood the full insight of emptiness and non-duality

(2:32 PM) Thusness: It is not the same.

(2:32 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:32 PM) Thusness: But to him, he is not aware of that point.

(2:32 PM) Thusness: It is not obvious to him.

(2:32 PM) Thusness: That is my opinion.

(2:33 PM) AEN: he is not aware of what

(2:33 PM) Thusness: That the experience of "I AM" is different.

(2:33 PM) AEN: but u said in the ebook is still quite dualistic rite

(2:33 PM) Thusness: yes

(2:33 PM) AEN: i tink he said something like oil and water

(2:33 PM) AEN: are separate

(2:33 PM) Thusness: yes

(2:33 PM) Thusness: i will talk about that later.

(2:34 PM) Thusness: means he cannot rest in the phenomena...

(2:34 PM) Thusness: the arising and ceasing

(2:34 PM) Thusness: why so?

(2:34 PM) Thusness: because of certain 'block' still.

(2:34 PM) Thusness: that 'block' must be completely gone.

(2:34 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:35 PM) Thusness: sames goes to Charlie Singer

(2:35 PM) Thusness: Seems almost there but not there. :P

(2:35 PM) AEN: why not

(2:35 PM) Thusness: Don't go everywhere say that i say hah...

(2:35 PM) AEN: oic

(2:35 PM) Thusness: The mirror is still there. :)

(2:36 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:36 PM) Thusness: what is appearance to him?

(2:36 PM) Thusness: seems like awareness yet not.

(2:36 PM) Thusness: seems like merely a reflection

(2:36 PM) Thusness: apparition

(2:36 PM) Thusness: of a mirror

(2:37 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:37 PM) AEN: but we can use that analogy for its emptiness?

(2:37 PM) Thusness: yes but unfortunately in terms of experience, it is not

(2:38 PM) Thusness: means the nature of an arising is not thoroughly experienced.

(2:38 PM) Thusness: and he is right.

(2:38 PM) Thusness: one needs to go through until this nature is fully and completely understood.

(2:38 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:40 PM) Thusness: What are the 2 truths of egolessness about?

(2:40 PM) AEN: emptiness of self and phenomena?

(2:40 PM) Thusness: yes

(2:40 PM) Thusness: subject and object

(2:40 PM) Thusness: if there is no background, no "ITness" to be found as 'Self/self'

(2:41 PM) Thusness: and there is no 'ITness' to be found in object or attributes

(2:41 PM) Thusness: 'What is' is mere Appearances

(2:42 PM) Thusness: there is no 'redness' in flower or any 'ITness' found anywhere

(2:42 PM) Thusness: both as 'Self' and 'Object' of identification

(2:42 PM) Thusness: So what is there?

(2:43 PM) AEN: awareness as appearances?

(2:43 PM) Thusness: Yes.

(2:43 PM) Thusness: There is only appearances

(2:43 PM) Thusness: and we do not know that this Appearance is our Buddha Nature in real time.

(2:44 PM) Thusness: There is a 'block' because the direct experience is not strong and thorough enough.

(2:44 PM) Thusness: There will come a time when total clarity dawn, there is no more doubt.

(2:45 PM) Thusness: Because of this 'Block', there is still traces of an independent 'I'.

(2:45 PM) Thusness: And there is no One Taste. :)

(2:45 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:47 PM) Thusness: Think I will write my opinion about it.

(2:47 PM) AEN: okie

(2:48 PM) Thusness: Actually I do not like to comment on these articles because it often leads to disputes and arguments.

(2:48 PM) Thusness: :P

(2:48 PM) AEN: no la

(2:48 PM) AEN: dun tink it will

(2:48 PM) AEN: our forum like v quiet

(2:48 PM) AEN: haha

(2:48 PM) Thusness: ahaha...

(2:49 PM) Thusness: it is for practice sake

(2:49 PM) Thusness: for experience sake

(2:49 PM) Thusness: not to create noise in ur forum

(2:49 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:51 PM) Thusness: have u finished reading 'The Sun, My Heart'?

(2:53 PM) AEN: nope

(2:53 PM) AEN: i read slowly one leh

(2:53 PM) AEN: maybe one chapter or less a day

(2:53 PM) AEN: haha

(2:53 PM) AEN: thats why i always take a long time to finish a bk

(2:53 PM) AEN: u wan to get from me isit

(2:55 PM) Thusness: yeah

(2:55 PM) Thusness: how is it?

(2:55 PM) Thusness: have u read it?

(2:57 PM) AEN: not a lot yet

(2:57 PM) AEN: i think shld be quite gd

(3:03 PM) AEN: namdrol also recommend clarifying the natural state for mahamudra :P "

Must reads are Clarifying the Natural State and Moonlight, Quintessence of Mind and Meditation. As for Buddhist magazines, I can't really say any of them are particularly bad or good-- they are for the most part lineage marketing material; and in the case of Tricycle, it is aimed at Barnes and Nobles Buddhists i.e. the authors you find at B&N are the authors you see in its pages."

(3:04 PM) Thusness: ic

(3:04 PM) AEN: no no

(3:04 PM) AEN: the orange book u had

(3:05 PM) AEN: last time we discussed b4 mah

(3:05 PM) AEN: that one is another one.. is not dzogchen, is mahamudra

(3:05 PM) Thusness: oh...yeah

(3:05 PM) Thusness: that one is good.

(3:05 PM) AEN: ic ya

(3:05 PM) Thusness: yeah...remembered.

(3:06 PM) AEN: theres another book, a thicker one... by dakpo tashi namgyal, i think more thorough. called Moonlight, Quintessence of Mind and Meditation

(3:06 PM) Thusness: ic

(3:06 PM) AEN: oh btw

(3:06 PM) AEN: wat u tink about this article

(3:16 PM) Thusness: not bad.

(3:16 PM) AEN: icic..

(3:17 PM) Thusness: but u know vajrayana got recognition by certain authority is important.

(3:17 PM) Thusness: lol

(3:17 PM) Thusness: I do not like to comment about that.  I am only interested in practical experience.

(3:17 PM) AEN: wat u mean got recognition by certain authority is important.

(3:18 PM) Thusness: means lineage is important lah

(3:18 PM) Thusness: for me, i have no interest in this sort of stuff.

(3:18 PM) Thusness: as long as the practitioner shows direct experience of our luminous and empty nature, he is a true practitioner

(3:19 PM) Thusness: at my current stage, i am vividly clear of that Buddha's teaching is the way towards liberation.

(3:19 PM) Thusness: There is no doubt in my experience and practice and Buddha's teaching.

(3:20 PM) Thusness: I am not particularly concerned about authority. :)

(3:20 PM) AEN: oic..

(3:22 PM) Thusness: where u get this url from?

(3:22 PM) AEN: dunnu leh

(3:22 PM) AEN: found somewhere then i save it in my browser

(3:22 PM) Thusness: seach from the web?

(3:22 PM) AEN: think so

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