Showing posts with label Teachers. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Teachers. Show all posts

 

ChatGPT: Here is the image that captures the essence of a profound spiritual journey, illustrating the diverse paths converging towards the realization of anatman or no-self, with figures representing contemporary and historical teachers from different traditions.

 

Someone said: "This has been my realization as well. I have been having a hard time finding many who espouse emptiness teachings. Obviously Buddha, but the only major practitioner I can find any info on or videos by is Greg Goode. "


Soh replied:

That's because you've been reading Advaitin authors so far, in which case the I AM and one mind realization features prominently.

I can list many, many contemporary (and many more who are dead) teachers and masters and practitioners who have realised anatta. I even wrote that there's 60 who realised anatta through the AtR blog. I'm not kidding, and I'm not making this figure up, I actually have all the names on a notepad. But it goes to show that anatta realisation is actually quite attainable with the right pointers and guidance and practice.

But as for teachers who realised anatta, here's a list of contemporary teachers who realised anatman:

Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, most famous Buddhist master in the world after the Dalai Lama (who also himself wrote about anatman a lot), passed away last year -- must read: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2022/07/no-nouns-are-necessary-to-initiate-verbs.html

Dzogchen teacher Ācārya Malcolm Smith www.zangthal.com , consistently clear about anatman in the teachings I received from him. I recommend him as a dharma teacher to all who are interested and resonates with him and Dzogchen. You can watch this YouTube video (highly recommended) for an introduction to Acarya Malcolm’s Dzogchen teachings that was recommended by Sim Pern Chong on the atr group: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2023/09/talk-on-buddhahood-in-this-life.html . Also Malcolm’s writings can be found here https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2014/02/clarifications-on-dharmakaya-and-basis_16.html - a very good compilation of his writings, which also shows why Dzogchen is different from Advaita realization. His student Kyle Dixon/Krodha also realised anatman and wrote about it here: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2014/10/advise-from-kyle_10.html , https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2012/03/a-sun-that-never-sets.html

Do watch this talk by Acarya Malcolm Smith:


If you wish to attend his teachings, you can send a message to https://www.zangthal.com/contact


Zen teacher Venerable Jinmyo Osho Sensei who offers long distance training program https://wwzc.org/long-distance-training-program and her teacher Ven. Anzan Hoshin roshi also clearly realised anatman and is another teacher I recommend. Why do I recommend these two in particular (Malcolm and Jinmyo)? Because they offer online teachings. Of course there are many other teachers who realised anatman, you just have to search around, but they may or may not offer teachings online (they may be stationed at a local dharma center or monastery, for example).

Zen teacher Alex Weith, who is a member of this group, went through I AM to one mind to anatman realization. He realised I AM/one mind and his realization was confirmed by Advaitin teachers and asked to teach by them, but later on he discovered Buddhist realisation of anatman goes deeper. You can talk to him if you wish: https://www.facebook.com/groups/571719226202845/user/100060380903800 , and read his article which is well written (must read!): https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2011/10/a-zen-exploration-of-bahiya-sutta.html

Another dharma teacher who underwent similar journey from Vedanta realization (confirmed to be deep and profound by his Vedanta teachers and asked to teach) before going into Buddhist realization is Archaya Mahayogi Shridhar Rana Rinpoche, you can read about his bio and articles here: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/search/label/Acharya%20Mahayogi%20Shridhar%20Rana%20Rinpoche

Zen teacher Hong Wen Liang - very deep insights on anatman/total exertion/emptiness but he teaches in Chinese, but I translated some into English, highly recommended reading: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/search/label/Zen%20Master%20Hong%20Wen%20Liang%20%28%E6%B4%AA%E6%96%87%E4%BA%AE%E7%A6%85%E5%B8%88%29

Angelo Dillulo/Angelo Gerangelo -- an admin of this group also and a teacher, https://simplyalwaysawake.com/ and has a youtube channel and a book

Thrangu Rinpoche -- books highly recommended, he recently passed away and attained Buddhahood and rainbow body: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2023/11/thrangu-rinpoche-attained-buddhahood.html

Zen teacher Ven Chi Chern -- teaches in Chinese

Zen teacher Ven Hui Lu -- teaches in Chinese , some translations at https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/search/label/Zen%20Master%20Hui%20L%C3%BC

Zen Master Dogen and many other olden days Zen masters starting with Bodhidharma, who all realised and taught anatman, please read: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2022/10/some-zen-masters-quotations-on-anatman.html

Dzogchen teachers Yogini Abhaya Devi and Abhaya Devi Yogini -- https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/04/way-of-bodhi.html

Zen teacher Barry Magid - good read: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/search/label/Zen%20Master%20Barry%20Magid

Zen teacher Madelon Bolling - good read: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2022/06/three-treasures-sangha-in-seattle.html

Zen teacher Doug Phillips - good read: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/search/label/Zen%20Master%20Doug%20Phillips

Toni Packer https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/search/label/Toni%20Packer and her student Joan Tollifson

Daniel M. Ingram, must watch this video on how to practice and realize anatman: https://vimeo.com/250616410

Charles Genoud - good book https://www.amazon.com/Gesture-Awareness-Radical-Approach-Movement/dp/0861715063

Charlie Singer

Zen teacher Charlotte Joko Beck https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/search/label/Charlotte%20Joko%20Beck

Zen teacher Hakuun Yasutani

Zen teacher Kubota [Akira] Ji'un

Dan Berkow

Scott Kiloby

Zen Teacher Shohaku Okumura - https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/11/my-opinion-on-shurangama-sutra.html - scroll halfway down to Update 9th June 2019

He gives highly recommended teachings and materials for Dogen studies: “ Today he is recognized for his unique perspective on the life and teachings of Dogen Zenji derived from his experience as both practitioner and translator, and as a teacher in both Japanese and Western practice communities. He gives frequent lectures on the Shobogenzo and other foundational texts. His translations and commentaries include Dogen's Extensive Record (Wisdom Publications, 2004) and The Wholehearted Way (Tuttle Publishing, 1997), Realizing Genjokoan, Living By Vow, Mountains and Waters Sutra, and Squabbling Squashes. His lectures have appeared in Buddhadharma: The Practitioner's QuarterlyDharma Eye, and Buddhism Now.


He continues to lead sesshins (intensive meditation retreats) and genzo-e (Shobogenzo study) retreats at Sanshin-ji (Sanshin Zen Community) and at various other centers in the US and around the world. Shohaku Okumura's bio on Sanshin Zen Community.


And also:

Zen Teacher Shunryū Suzuki

Zen Teacher Steve Hagen -- good read: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2010/04/buddhism-is-not-what-you-think.html

Sonam Thakchoe -- https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/03/tsongkhapas-epistemic-nonduality.html

Frank Yang -- check out his video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t8KvdMtT4A

Now, at this point you're probably thinking, ok you listed many teachers, but how come I've still never heard of any of them before?

Well how about Adyashanti? You must have heard of him right? Adyashanti realised anatta and total exertion only in recent years. All his books in earlier years were into I AM and one mind only. I have posted some of his recent articles https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/search/label/Adyashanti

How about A H Almaas? Have you heard of him? He also only realised anatta and total exertion only in recent years. All his books in earlier years were into I AM and one mind only. I highly recommend watching this video by him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hqUcX_D8H8

Alan Watts? Many should know him. Very clear insights: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2019/10/alan-watts-veil-that-conceals-reality_17.html

There's also this teacher Richard from the Actual Freedom Trust, he is not Buddhist but his experience and progression is quite similar to I AM then into anatta and total exertion, however his insights has not expanded into twofold emptiness. https://www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard/articles/abriefpersonalhistory.htm


And these are just the contemporary ones, and only some of them off the top of my mind. There are plenty more I have not listed. And if you want me to list the olden/dead masters, it will be too many to list.


Also See: Teachers who Realised Anatta



In their journey towards a deeper understanding of nonduality and anatta, individuals frequently face the decision of whether to seek a teacher, guide, engage in one-on-one personal mentorship, participate in coaching programs, or explore other forms of spiritual guidance. This complex and nuanced topic has been extensively discussed in various online platforms, shedding light on the experiences and insights of different practitioners and teachers.

I, Soh, an admin of the Awakening to Reality Facebook group and co-author of AtR, addressed this topic by highlighting the practical challenges of offering mentorship while holding a full-time job. I emphasized that it's difficult to mentor a large community and maintain a separate career unless one decides to dedicate full-time to coaching, which would necessitate charging a fee for survival. This is a path I have chosen not to pursue, preferring to maintain my current career over giving up for full-time spiritual coaching​​.

The conversation extends to different paths within spiritual practice. Some practitioners, like Yin Ling, are inclined towards the Vipassana path, which leads more to nondual and anatta insights. Yin Ling's journey, detailed on the AtR website in the article "6) Nice Advice and Expression of Anatta from Yin Ling and Albert Hong + What is Experiential Insight?", provides valuable insights for those interested in this particular path.

Regarding Dzogchen teachings, Dzogchen teacher Acarya Malcolm Smith stands out as a key figure. He offers teachings and practice instructions through his website, www.zangthal.com, with a structured fee. You can watch this YouTube video (highly recommended) for an introduction to Acarya Malcolm’s Dzogchen teachings that was recommended by Sim Pern Chong on the AtR group: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2023/09/talk-on-buddhahood-in-this-life.html . Also, some of Malcolm’s writings can be found here https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2014/02/clarifications-on-dharmakaya-and-basis_16.html . His approach includes regular Zoom sessions and encourages students to email their queries, albeit concisely due to his large student base and other professional responsibilities​​. 


Do watch this talk by Acarya Malcolm Smith:


Similarly, Zen teacher Venerable Jinmyo Osho Renge offers a long-distance training program in Zen, accessible via www.wwzc.org, which is akin to Dzogchen teacher Acarya Malcolm Smith's approach in terms of structure and fees. You can read some of her articles here https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2010/04/tada.html and https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2023/12/zen-master-ven-jinmyo-renge-senseis.html


On Reddit, a user inquired about finding a good nondual coach and guide. In response, I, Soh, referred to teachers like Dzogchen teacher Acarya Malcolm Smith and Zen teacher Venerable Jinmyo Osho Renge, emphasizing that while these teachers do charge for their services, the fees are reasonable considering the support they provide to their communities and temples. I pointed out the importance of finding a practice, community, and teaching that resonates with the individual, rather than seeking quick solutions through one-time sessions. There are of course, many awakened teachers apart from these two that I have mentioned.

The teachings of Dzogchen teacher Acarya Malcolm Smith are particularly recommended for those interested in a deeper understanding of Dzogchen. His approach is structured and includes Dzogchen texts he personally translated, regular teachings and recordings which are also made available through his online platform, and the possibility of personal guidance through email correspondence. This method ensures a comprehensive and structured approach to Dzogchen, accommodating both beginners and advanced practitioners.

For those seeking mentorship or guidance in spiritual practices, the path is not always straightforward. The availability of mentors and the structure of their teachings vary, and fees may be involved. It's crucial to find a path and a teacher that resonate personally, ensuring a sustained and meaningful engagement with the practice. Whether through online platforms, formal teachings, or personal mentorship, the journey towards understanding nonduality and anatta is a deeply personal one, shaped by individual circumstances and commitments.

In addition to the various paths and teachers discussed in the context of spiritual mentorship and guidance, the significance of finding an awakened teacher cannot be overstated. As I, Soh, shared with someone recently, the teachings of the first Zen Patriarch Bodhidharma offer profound insights into this matter.

Bodhidharma, esteemed as the first patriarch of Chan/Zen, marking him as a foundational and transformative figure in the lineage and teachings of this tradition, emphasizes the crucial role of a teacher in the journey towards enlightenment. In his teachings, he states, "To find a Buddha, you have to see your nature. Whoever sees his nature is a Buddha. If you don’t see your nature, being mindful of Buddhas, reciting sutras, making offerings, and keeping precepts are not equal to it. Being mindful of Buddhas results in good karma, reciting sutras results in a good intelligence; keeping precepts results in a good rebirth in heavens, and making offerings results in future blessings — but no buddha. If you don’t understand by yourself, you’ll have to find a teacher to know the root of births and deaths. But unless he sees his nature, such a person isn’t a good teacher. Even if he can recite the twelve groups of scriptures he can’t escape the Wheel of Births and Deaths. He suffers in the three realms without hope of release. Long ago, the monk Good Star was able to recite the twelve groups of scriptures. But he didn’t escape the Wheel, because he didn’t see his nature. If this was the case with Good Star, then people nowadays who recite a few sutras or shastras and think it’s the Dharma are fools. Unless you see your own Heart, reciting so much prose is useless.

To find a Buddha have to see your nature directly. Your nature is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the person who’s free: free of plans, free of cares. If you don’t see your nature and run outwards to seek for external objects, you’ll never find a buddha. The truth is there’s nothing to find. But to reach such an understanding you need a good teacher and you need to struggle to make yourself understand. Life and death are important. Don’t suffer them in vain.

There’s no advantage in deceiving yourself. Even if you have mountains of jewels and as many servants as there are grains of sand along the Ganges, you see them when your eyes are open. But what about when your eyes are shut? You should realize then that everything you see is like a dream or illusion. If you don’t find a teacher soon, you’ll live this life in vain. It’s true, you have the buddha-nature. But without the help of a teacher you’ll never know it. Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher’s help. If, though, by the conjunction of conditions, someone understands what the Buddha meant, that person doesn’t need a teacher. Such a person has a natural awareness superior to anything taught. But unless you’re so blessed, study hard, and by means of instruction you’ll understand.

People who don’t understand and think they can do so without study are no different from those deluded souls who can’t tell white from black.” Falsely proclaiming the Buddha-Dharma, such persons in fact blaspheme the Buddha and subvert the Dharma. They preach as if they were bringing rain. But theirs is the preaching of devils not of Buddhas. Their teacher is the King of Devils and their disciples are the Devil’s minions. Deluded people who follow such instruction unwittingly sink deeper in the Sea of Birth and Death.

Unless they see their nature, how can people call themselves Buddhas they’re liars who deceive others into entering the realm of devils. Unless they see their nature, their preaching of the Twelvefold Canon is nothing but the preaching of devils. Their allegiance is to Mara, not to the Buddha. Unable to distinguish white from black, how can they escape birth and death?


Whoever sees his nature is a Buddha; whoever doesn’t is a mortal. But if you can find your buddha-nature apart from your mortal nature, where is it? Our mortal nature is our Buddha nature. Beyond this nature there’s no Buddha. The Buddha is our nature. There’s no Buddha besides this nature. And there’s no nature besides the Buddha."


Also See: Teachers who Realised Anatta


Replied someone:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/AwakeningToReality/posts/10064928413548498/


Some people prefer a more vipassana path (over self-enquiry), so that leads more to nondual and anatta. Yin Ling took this path and can elaborate more. You can read https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2023/05/nice-advice-and-expression-of-anatta-in.html

I am unable to offer mentorship because I have a full time job. IMO it will not be possible for any person to offer mentorship to a large community and still have a separate full time job. That is to say, unless I decide one day to quit my job and dedicate full time to coaching people, this would be impossible for me. If I do that, then I will have to charge people for my survival, and some people did request me to do that but I rejected their requests because I do not want to give up my career for this.

That being said, you can indeed find mentors, who do 1 on 1 coaching but there is a fee involved of course, which you can find out from Yin Ling -- she has a teacher who guided her to anatta.

You can also attend teachings like those by Acarya Malcolm Smith www.zangthal.com . There is a fee to attend the Dzogchen teachings. He will give practice instructions and teachings on Zoom to all his students regularly, you can also e-mail him, although because he also has a community with hundreds of students, and he has to juggle with his job of dharma translation work, he requested his students to limit their questions to only a paragraph per e-mail.

I personally attend Acarya Malcolm Smith's teachings too. 

 

p.s. there are also teachers like Ven Jinmyo Osho Renge (whose articles I like) who offers long distance training program for Zen https://wwzc.org/long-distance-training-program -- I believe there is a fee like Acarya Malcolm Smith's teachings. 



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https://www.reddit.com/r/AwakeningToReality/comments/16tmwbb/im_looking_for_a_good_nondual_coach_and_guide/

1
Posted by
u/ch3nr3z1g
44 minutes ago
I'm looking for a good nondual coach and guide. Suggestions?

I was browsing the AtR website and came across this link.

...
xabir
·
9 min. ago

Hi, Soh here, co author of AtR.

I don't do coaching but do refer people to teachers like Acarya Malcolm Smith ( www.zangthal.com ) for Dzogchen (although some of his courses can be quite technical for some) and Ven Jinmyo Osho for Zen https://wwzc.org/long-distance-training-program , you can read her articles on that website. If you attend their teachings, you can write to them to get your answers about practice answered.

I notice so called "nondual coaches" charge a lot, the rates go like 100usd per hour? And it's not even clear if they have genuine and deep insights. I can vouch for the two individuals above, they do charge for teachings but they have a community to run, and the charges are like 180usd (depends on teaching) for a couple months of teachings, and I think the Ven Jinmyo it's something like 95 canadian dollars a month? And they have a temple, community, monastics to support so I think it's all quite reasonable.

It's more important that you find a practice and community and teaching you resonate with and can stick to it with earnest interest and discipline so that you can keep consistent practice and interest and engagement. Rather than attend a one time or one hour 1 to 1 session which may not work out. There is no magic pill to enlightenment, it does depend on one's interest and engagement on the path.
1


——

Someone asked for an introduction to Malcolm’s teachings, I said:


For malcolm you can watch this https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2023/09/talk-on-buddhahood-in-this-life.html


And read this https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2014/02/clarifications-on-dharmakaya-and-basis_16.html


…..


Malcolm will be teaching i think near year end again so keep track of zangthal.com announcements. Meanwhile his recommendations for beginners as always is to first read these two books before attending his teachings as some background introductory materials to dzogchen if possible:


https://www.amazon.com/Crystal-Way-Light-Dzogchen-Philosophy/dp/1559391359


And


https://www.amazon.sg/Dzogchen-Self-Perfected-Chogyal-Namkhai-Norbu/dp/1559390573

https://www.facebook.com/groups/AwakeningToReality/posts/8547600198614668/?__cft__[0]=AZX3MQQS7PLW60GEcXwNFVacgZq3L1FteaImvoH5obxKIPwTyXqDMPxwWm1-TQC2UsjEeSzUCx3j00KKke9qE7_vmZ3S7Xwfng7QXXHvmozfSB11dvGIp9jMSyTy17nuHVY0q--HOC-xCJG3fqE1oevDUGpfX1cTlquZNtruRi63hufT7DsgTrDfNiMVwSltX_o&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R


Liz Anderton

2d  · 

Should teachers be charging money?

It seems amazing to me that so many people claim to be enlightened, and almost immediately they start teaching and offering satsang, retreats, 1:1s, books etc. Some of them are barely in their 20s.  I don't deny that these people could be liberated, but I'm always suspicious about their motivations.  If you've realised the deepest truth of life, why then do you feel the need to set up a website and youtube channel to tell everyone about it? Is that something that comes with liberation? (the urge to teach others). If so, why does so much money need to change hands? Why not teach for free? I understand that everyone needs to earn a living, but if you're called to it, why not continue with what you were doing before and teach in your spare time? If you've discovered the meaning  of life, the universe and everything, shouldn't you at least live with it for a while before setting up that IG account? 

I should add that I'm not against recouping costs that arise from practical matters (venue hire, travel etc). It's more about the personal brand that some people try to build and promote. Their spiritual brand seems no different to any other, right down to the automated marketing emails and paywalls.

44 comments

Yin Ling

Admin

Yup. Same thoughts. I’m always very wary and discerning.

Few hundred euros 💶 for a weekend zoom stuff. Erm.

Asking ppl not to eat food? Erm.

Don’t trust them. Lol.

Ps that is also why the admins here who strictly don’t take money from anyone tries very hard to protect others from falling to unscrupulous hands. Just to add.

Reply1dEdited

Liz Anderton

Author

Yin Ling yep, when I first read the awakeningtoreality blog I got a strong sense that it was all about the teaching and not about any individual

Reply1d

Yin Ling

Admin

Liz Anderton it’s not all “paying teachers = charlatans” though imo as some do need funds for a living if they charge reasonably. Some charges are just off the roof it’s so crazy.

I find the more problematic area is making up ones own teaching, own sect, own sangha, own book, own path, own decision on saying who is enlighten and who is not. That is very problematic. And some even talk about health, disease, body without have the qualifications to do so, and asking ppl to adopt certain diet or lifestyles like not eating or drinking. That’s severely problematic and harmful.

Reply1d

Kyoshu Okan Özaydin

I don't trust anyone who's not a lineage teacher. Anyone can parrot some fancy words on a YouTube channel. Take your teachings from trusted lineage teachers, liberation is very important, too important to just listening to random people.

Reply1d

Ole Norback

Kyoshu Okan Özaydin, yes and no✌️

The only deciver is oneself. Some say one should not cherry-pick. Is that so, is that true? Is what's good for you something worth doubting, and who is the doubter?

I say listen to it all, but let the heart do the picking; you only get the right fruity stuff needed for precisely who you are.

Reply1d

Stan Gogan

It’s definitely become a trend. And a lot of the things people admire in some of these teachers are just side effects of them getting money and having more free time from being a “spiritual teacher”. Of course you’d feel more free and happy if you too had a freelance spiritual consultant business, doesn’t mean you’re enlightened though.

Reply1d

Liz Anderton

Author

Stan Gogan I had never thought of it like that but it makes perfect sense

Reply1d

Stan Gogan

Liz Anderton to add to it though. I don’t see any problem with it necessarily.. as long as they are providing actual value to the seeker. Some are, there are a few excellent teachers that charge and do 1on1 and also provide really useful free resources.

But many charge without providing much except repeating the same old non-duality talking points.

It’s nuanced haha

Reply1d

Khizar Ali

Some really good teachers charge, i don't know about right or wrong but it kept me away from taking coaching with them since i can barely afford it atm. Some were kind enough to offer a free session or a discount. Hoping that my financial situation changes so i can bother them more 😛

Reply1d

Liz Anderton

Author

Khizar Ali I know what you mean. Some teachers resonate but then I'm put off by their commercialism.

Reply1d

Janice Davis

Nailed it

Reply1d

Pam Matthews


Angelo addresses this quite well in his book, and has also addressed it in some of his talks.

Reply1d

Dudi Amira

Pam Matthews could you elaborate on this please?

Reply1d

Pam Matthews


Dudi Amira

“I think it’s wonderful that meditation, mindfulness practices, and energetic practices such as yoga have become mainstream. This is a clear indication that humanity is in the midst of taking an evolutionary step forward in consciousness. I don’t think there is anything wrong with teaching various spiritual practices if done with sincerity and good intention. However, if you really want to take this to liberation, I will generally caution against trying to teach people about or facilitate awakening until that occurs. A first awakening (what is covered in this book) is just the beginning. Deciding to teach or facilitate too early has much more potential to cause you distraction than it does to support your progress. Many people who have authentic awakenings decide to teach way too early and get themselves into situations where it is challenging to see that they are using the identity of the “enlightened one” to prevent the process from coming to fruition.

Dilullo, Angelo. Awake: It's Your Turn (p. 45). Kindle Edition.

Enlightenment is man’s emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. — Immanuel Kant

Reply1d

Koro Kaisan Miles

No one owns the Dharma. The teachings are free. A Library, a used book store and an open mind is all that is needed. And maybe some tea😉

Reply1d

Ugi Müller

One who can dedicate his whole life to the Dharma can potentially do much more for the Dharma than someone who has to work full hours and only does it in his "free" time. I don't see a problem with sustaining oneself by teaching the Dharma and charging for it. Collecting dana or charging fees is only a matter of culture. One doesn't charge for the Dharma but for one's time and expenses teaching it.

Also the teachers of traditional lineages that travel around and do "full time teaching" are also not teaching for free. The only thing that THEY themselves don't have to do is collecting the money because they have huge organisations behind them who collect the money for them and pay their expenses, taxes and so on.

It's never black and white.

Reply1d

Liz Anderton

Author

Ugi Müller this is an important perspective and a good balance to what I wrote. Thank you

Reply1d

Rick Stewart

We all pay loads of money to support our samsaric lifestyle. Sooooo much for coffees, TV shows, music, fascinating foods, clothes, jewelry, news, face work, body work, all feeding our attention to stay distracted. Yet many numerous spirit chasers balk … See more

Reply1d

Jim Yandell


There is a lifetime of free Nonduality material on YouTube, Facebook & Instagram feeds, and at the library.

Reply1d

Diederik van der Boor

Either there is a need to teach from the remaining ego part of themselves that think they're now special Or there is a natural arising to teach and life's circumstances let them to it while they didn't want to teach at all. The second are usually the best.

But doing that for free? Nah. My teachers charge for their time, not their level nor for whats been given. That's for free. Reality or life is the teacher here and that can't be priced. But spending a week with a human being that's giving their time into this surely deserves a price tag.

Reply1dEdited

Owen Richards

Agree. Everyone wants to be the next Eckhart Tolle.

I'd love to see a teacher who is still living a working class life and raising kids, etc. That'd be real authenticity.

Reply1d

Rafał Bazarnik

Well.. it might be some unprocessed stuff - usually in social psychology proselytism is interpreted as internal doubts. So if you are able to convince others you are securing your own belief and pacify doubts... Not saying all of YouTube gurus are like this - some are just benefiting others, some are narcissists, some just want money and fame. And not that there is sth wrong with paying the teacher - all of us we sell our time and effort for money so while I am against paying for dharma - but not against paying for time invested in teaching, preparing, writing books and creating content - why not? And if someone does sth valuable why he would not get rich doing so? We live in society in which someone doing crazy jokes or just exposing some skin can get rich...

Reply1d

Anthony Goh

pm'd u

Reply1d

Duff McDuffee

Life under Late Capitalism is full of such contradictions.

Reply1d

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Worst thing is that most of those teachers that charge a lot of money, they really aren't clear themselves.

For example, Eckhart Tolle charge a lot, overcharged for his retreats and stuff. I agree his books are of value and I often recommend them for beginners but he only teaches until I AM level. There is a lot more to spirituality and that is hardly liberation.

Those who are really clear, often don't charge that much, if at all.

Reply1dEdited

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

But because of Eckhart's fame, and the way capitalism works, lots of rich billionaires and millionaires have tons of $$$ to throw away at fanciful celebrity teachers for an exotic weekend retreat at Hawaii with Eckhart, so of course they raise their prices because the demand is there, for example.

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Soh Wei Yu

Admin

2007:

(10:21 AM) Thusness: it is important that one must not assume the role of a teacher without being thoroughly authenticated because it will only prevent him/her from further understanding...

(10:22 AM) Thusness: coz one teaches too much and re-enforce the ego structure.

(10:22 AM) Thusness: the role of a teacher is deeper imprinted into his/her consciousness

(10:22 AM) AEN: oic..

(10:22 AM) Thusness: even buddha were to appear in front of him/her, they will not recognise.

(10:23 AM) AEN: oic

(10:24 AM) Thusness: it is better to focus on one practice than to become a teacher. 😛

(10:25 AM) AEN: icic

(10:25 AM) AEN: yea

(10:25 AM) Thusness: in fact i do not like anyone to know about the stages i wrote...just that it is due to yuan that i wrote something to share with JonLS.

(10:26 AM) Thusness: and sharing is only meaningful when the time is right.

(10:26 AM) AEN: oic

(10:26 AM) Thusness: otherwise there isn't much value.

(10:26 AM) Thusness: even then it can serve as a block.

(10:27 AM) AEN: icic..

(10:27 AM) Thusness: once a person have some experience and the idea of a teacher arise, it becomes a 'block' very quickly.

(10:27 AM) Thusness: and one will not like who teach or what...

(10:27 AM) Thusness: that is plainly the result of ego at work.

(10:27 AM) Thusness: nothing more than that.

(10:27 AM) AEN: oic..

(10:28 AM) Thusness: similarly JonLs or Simpo might not like it after certain realisation. 🙂

(10:28 AM) AEN: what realisation

(10:28 AM) Thusness: so don't tok about me in their forums.

(10:28 AM) AEN: lol

(10:28 AM) AEN: how come

(10:28 AM) Thusness: coz it is not respecting their realisation.

(10:29 AM) Thusness: heehhee

Reply1dEdited

Sim Pern Chong

Admin

Soh Wei Yu Yah... fully agree.

Reply1d

Yin Ling

Admin

Soh Wei Yu I agree with this a lot. Also the main reason I do not want to take on “clients” like how almost everyone else does 😂 those teacher seem to becomes stuck once they take on “client”. Too many examples.

Reply1d

Stan Gogan

Yin Ling Can also be stuck by principally not taking on clients. I think what you've said also highlights an aspect of this which is nuanced. Some teachers BECOME teachers because people ask for their help a lot that they have to set up some kind of business to make it work. Others set up a business FIRST and go out looking for clients, trying to advertise their "enlightenment" to people to get their money. Maybe if people are meant to become teachers and charge money, the universe will make it clear to them by bringing them students haha, no matter how hard they try to resist the teacher role haha.

Reply17hEdited

Yin Ling

Admin

Stan Gogan yeah this applies only to me. I don’t feel comfortable at all.

Reply16h

Ng Xin Zhao

Of course the proper way to teach dhamma without charging money, is to become a monastic.

If one is enlightened in any stage, there's really no doubt about the Buddha, dhamma, and sangha, so no faith issue, just how much does one attach to lay life some more if one doesn't want to be in robes?

There's some beginners to Buddhism who are so inspired and got into robes very soon after learning the dhamma. What's stopping those who claimed some attainments?

Reply1d

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

https://www.reddit.com/r/awakened/comments/9b32i6/eckhart_tolle_and_his_prices/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

May be an image of text

Reply10h

Yin Ling

Admin

Soh Wei Yu amongst all these expensive ppl, I still only personally recommend Angelo haha, who does all his material for free. But that guy is busy with a full time medical job I really don’t know how he cope.

And Mingyur rinpoche courses if ppl are Buddhism incline. Also not crazy expensive.

Lisa is clear but she is fully booked too.

Frank yang does coaching but he overemphasise cessation so much and not very strong on insight rather focus a lot of experience

I have not found any that I can personally recommend tbh

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Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Adyashanti is clearer and in recent years into anatta and total exertion (previously was into i amness and one mind)

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Yin Ling

Admin

Soh Wei Yu in his writing? He has always been the most honest .

Rupert spira is a strong awareness teacher who I hope will breakthrough but not yet even in his latest book ( i actually read it lol)

Hope he gets it so he can benefit all

Reply9h

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Yin Ling Yes, John Tan and I find that Adyashanti's articles.. dunnu isit after 2017 or 2018 are more into anatta and total exertion

Reply9h

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/search/label/Adyashanti

Awakening to Reality

AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM

Awakening to Reality

Awakening to Reality

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Yin Ling

Admin

Soh Wei Yu ok thanks later I read

Reply9h



Soh Wei Yu

Admin

But it's not like I'm against Eckhart Tolle or other teachers becoming rich millionaires, or even the against the idea of being rich. Anathapindika was one of the most famous "billionaire" disciple of Buddha and he built monasteries for Buddha, he too is awakened (as a stream enterer), covering entire plot of land with gold to purchase it and build monastery for Buddha's sangha, in Mahayana the Vimalakirti is a 10th stage bodhisattva who is also like a "billionaire". {snipped}

But when it comes to spirituality, I think we have a different take on things.

2006, on Ken Wilber:

(11:37 AM) John: yeah...but i got disappointed by his movement

(11:37 AM) John: somehow cultic. 🙂

(11:37 AM) AEN: oic how come?

(11:37 AM) John: i wonder why all these ppl must develop such movement into a new age after the experience.

(11:38 AM) AEN: why cultic

(11:38 AM) AEN: actually he is more into philosophy isnt it

(11:38 AM) AEN: integrating western and eastern though

(11:38 AM) John: yeah...

(11:38 AM) AEN: thought

(11:38 AM) John: but when u come to worship some one, it becomes a cultic movement.

(11:38 AM) AEN: u mean ppl worship ken wilber??

(11:38 AM) AEN: lol

(11:38 AM) John: i hope this is not the case.

(11:39 AM) AEN: how come ppl worship ken wilber.. the book say meh? 😛

(11:39 AM) John: and i don't like the way the integral naked website is presented.

(11:39 AM) John: it is a non profit organisation...

(11:40 AM) John: and the range of packages for membership can varies from $10 per month to more than $60k per annum

(11:40 AM) AEN: wah

(11:40 AM) AEN: lol

(11:40 AM) John: is that non-profit?

(11:40 AM) AEN: icic

(11:41 AM) John: an experience of our true nature into a profit making organisation?

(11:41 AM) John: what is that great about such experience?

(11:41 AM) AEN: lol

(11:41 AM) John: i mean he spent 25 years to reach that level of understanding, that's great...isn't that our nature from beginning...😛

(11:42 AM) John: anyway....that is my personal view. 🙂

(11:42 AM) AEN: icic

(11:42 AM) John: maybe i am expecting too much eh?

(11:42 AM) John: lol

(11:43 AM) John: a decent living will do...we don't really have to be super rich....

(11:43 AM) AEN: hahaha

(11:43 AM) AEN: yea

(11:44 AM) John: there is another danger about just having the experience of our luminosity and anatta without placing emphasis on our emptiness nature.

(11:44 AM) John: life becomes just a manifestation of the divine

(11:44 AM) John: and the divine becomes like damn great...

(11:44 AM) AEN: oic..

(11:44 AM) John: actually the divine cannot do anything...lol

(11:44 AM) John: that is why there is never an 'I'. 😛

(11:45 AM) AEN: icic..

(11:45 AM) John: and action is karma.

(11:45 AM) AEN: oic

(11:45 AM) John: and unwholesome action results in suffering

(11:45 AM) John: this must be known

(11:45 AM) AEN: icic..

(11:46 AM) John: i think this will gradually evolve and unfold.

(11:46 AM) AEN: oic

(11:46 AM) AEN: u mean karma?

(11:47 AM) John: yeah....but experiencing it


Also, in 2007, on people using unscrupulous tactics to con spiritual masses:

(10:50 AM) Thusness: but using such tactics are not uncommon in business world. 🙂

(10:50 AM) Thusness: I do not like to link religion with business.

(10:52 AM) AEN: oic..

(10:53 AM) Thusness: businessman sometimes have to use some not so ethical tactics to deal with businessman...😛

(10:53 AM) Thusness: but it should not involve religion.

(10:54 AM) Thusness: religious ppl are very sincere ppl and there is no point earning $$$ this way.

Reply9hEdited

Ng Xin Zhao

Soh Wei Yu anathapindika, not angulimala. Angulimala was the serial killer turned arahant.

Reply9h

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Ng Xin Zhao Ah yes! Thank you

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Soh Wei Yu

Admin

More recently:

[10/2/19, 8:29:54 PM] John Tan: I do not want to link practice with money

[10/2/19, 8:30:22 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Yeah I also dun think that’s right lol

[10/2/19, 8:30:31 PM] John Tan: Yes

[10/2/19, 8:34:02 PM] John Tan: Once there is this sort of mindset, however small, it will eventually turn chaotic just like any system.

[10/2/19, 8:35:02 PM] John Tan: That is y I refuse to participate in any religious activities.

[10/2/19, 8:35:37 PM] John Tan: Buddha boy is no exception

[10/2/19, 8:36:04 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Mindset as in profit making?

[10/2/19, 8:36:13 PM] John Tan: Yes

[10/2/19, 8:37:23 PM] Soh Wei Yu: I think depends.. Eckhart Tolle earn a lot of money but he seems ok... just that I dun really feel it’s right. Doesn’t feel right lol

[10/2/19, 8:39:47 PM] John Tan: There r exceptions of course but I m in business line creating  {snipped}  and their mindset to know how it can contaminate.

[10/2/19, 8:40:35 PM] John Tan: Many failed when comes to temptation.

Reply9h

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

[10/2/19, 8:48:42 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Can I learn from you 😛

[10/2/19, 8:48:52 PM] John Tan: Lol

[10/2/19, 8:49:06 PM] John Tan: U need to know corporate structuring

[10/2/19, 8:49:29 PM] John Tan: And have a group of ultra-high networth ppl supporting u

[10/2/19, 8:50:01 PM] John Tan: It takes decades to build up the reputation and experience.

[10/2/19, 8:50:06 PM] John Tan: Not easy.

[10/2/19, 8:50:14 PM] Soh Wei Yu: I see..

[10/2/19, 8:51:38 PM] John Tan: In business, it is not easy to have a mind free from attachment. Two conflicting mindstream 🤣

[10/2/19, 8:53:08 PM] John Tan: So if ur mind is pure and not corrupted, treasure it...worst is to corrupt the only real stuff that can give u peace.

[10/2/19, 8:53:38 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..

[10/2/19, 8:53:59 PM] John Tan: If I show u my profile u faintz

Reply9h

Zen/Ch'an First Patriarch Bodhidharma:

Excerpts from http://www.buddhism.org/bodhi-dharmas-bloodstream-sermon/

To find a Buddha, you have to see your nature. Whoever sees his nature is a Buddha. If you don’t see your nature, being mindful of Buddhas, reciting sutras, making offerings, and keeping precepts are not equal to it. Being mindful of Buddhas results in good karma, reciting sutras results in a good intelligence; keeping precepts results in a good rebirth in heavens, and making offerings results in future blessings — but no buddha. If you don’t understand by yourself, you’ll have to find a teacher to know the root of births and deaths. But unless he sees his nature, such a person isn’t a good teacher. Even if he can recite the twelve groups of scriptures he can’t escape the Wheel of Births and Deaths. He suffers in the three realms without hope of release. Long ago, the monk Good Star was able to recite the twelve groups of scriptures. But he didn’t escape the Wheel, because he didn’t see his nature. If this was the case with Good Star, then people nowadays who recite a few sutras or shastras and think it’s the Dharma are fools. Unless you see your own Heart, reciting so much prose is useless.

To find a Buddha have to see your nature directly. Your nature is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the person who’s free: free of plans, free of cares. If you don’t see your nature and run outwards to seek for external objects, you’ll never find a buddha. The truth is there’s nothing to find. But to reach such an understanding you need a good teacher and you need to struggle to make yourself understand. Life and death are important. Don’t suffer them in vain.

There’s no advantage in deceiving yourself. Even if you have mountains of jewels and as many servants as there are grains of sand along the Ganges, you see them when your eyes are open. But what about when your eyes are shut? You should realize then that everything you see is like a dream or illusion.

If you don’t find a teacher soon, you’ll live this life in vain. It’s true, you have the buddha-nature. But the help of a teacher you’ll never know it. Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher’s help. If, though, by the conjunction of conditions, someone understands what the Buddha meant, that person doesn’t need a teacher. Such a person has a natural awareness superior to anything taught. But unless you’re so blessed, study hard, and by means of instruction you’ll understand.

People who don’t understand and think they can do so without study are no different from those deluded souls who can’t tell white from black.” Falsely proclaiming the Buddha-Dharma, such persons in fact blaspheme the Buddha and subvert the Dharma. They preach as if they were bringing rain. But theirs is the preaching of devils not of Buddhas. Their teacher is the King of Devils and their disciples are the Devil’s minions. Deluded people who follow such instruction unwittingly sink deeper in the Sea of Birth and Death. Unless they see their nature, how can people call themselves Buddhas they’re liars who deceive others into entering the realm of devils. Unless they see their nature, their preaching of the Twelvefold Canon is nothing but the preaching of devils. Their allegiance is to Mara, not to the Buddha. Unable to distinguish white from black, how can they escape birth and death?

Whoever sees his nature is a Buddha; whoever doesn’t is a mortal. But if you can find your buddha-nature apart from your mortal nature, where is it? Our mortal nature is our Buddha nature. Beyond this nature there’s no Buddha. The Buddha is our nature. There’s no Buddha besides this nature. And there’s no nature besides the Buddha.

 

Soh Wei Yu shared a link.

Admin
 21m 
wrote:
There are many plenty of good teachers out there. Too many to list.. I have a book recommendation list in 2019 in the AtR blog but that too is in much need of updating. But you can get some recommendations here "Book Recommendations 2019 and Practice Advices" https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../book...
 
My recommendation of books, teachers, and so on, also depend on what the person is trying to accomplish and where they are at. If they are practicing self enquiry, then a self enquiry related book be it from advaita (e.g. ramana maharshi), zen (e.g. hsu yun, bassui, etc), or dzogchen (e.g. lama surya das's natural radiance, etc) would be good. Also although you seldom see me post neo advaita stuff here, John Tan also recommended some neo advaita books to certain people whose conditions for breakthrough to nondual was present but there wasn't conditions for breakthrough to anatta and emptiness yet. For example, I enjoyed reading Joan Tollifson books in the past, David Carse and so on. But it all depends on the conditions of the individual, I am not making a blanket recommendation that everyone should start reading these books. It may not resonate with you or you may already know those stuff and so on.
 
If they are post anatta, reading about mulamadhyamikakarika/mmk (translated by jay garfield, and another by mark siderits), soto zen/dogen (this is great for an introduction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hqUcX_D8H8 ), mipham (for starters: jamgon mipam, then for more thorough into dzogchen and emptiness read 'beacon of certainty'), tsongkhapa, and also many good books of mahamudra and dzogchen may be helpful. But as the tibetan buddhist teachings state vajrayana teachings requires a teacher, so if you are interested in these teachings then you will require a proper teacher who can do transmission and so on. Actually the same for zen.
 
As for finding teachers, it would be good to try to find a local teacher and sangha you can actually visit and interact with. If there are no awake teachers around your vicinity then maybe find an online one. So my advise is to look around your vicinity as well and do not be restricted by what people recommend here, because we cannot possibly know all the teachers that exist around the world.
 
Also I just told John Tan earlier today that I find Acarya Malcolm Smith and Kyle's writings and views quite resonating, which he also said "...learn their view, it is very good". I personally attended Malcolm's Dzogchen teachings in 2020 and so had John Tan, although it seems Malcolm no longer accepts new students.

Also Malcolm posted advise in dharmawheel on how to choose teacher, "You have to investigate your prospective gurus for yourself. She is among the people out there teaching Dzogchen in a somewhat open way. But not every teacher is suitable for every student. Only you can discern that. So you have to be like a bee, you have to visit many flowers, not only one. This is the recommended behavior for a person who is interested in Dzogchen teachings."
 
I do recommend people read all the posts by Malcolm and Kyle:
 
 
 
Also for Mahamudra teachings which are very profound, check out Thrangu Rinpoche ( http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2022/01/all-thrangu-rinpoche-58-books-at-35.html ) and Zurmang Rinpoche. 
 
As for Zen, check out some of the books and authors at http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2017/12/book-recommendations-2017.html. Check out 洪文亮 and 慧律法师 if you can read Chinese as they are very good. Zen Master Hong Wen Liang is deep into anatta, total exertion and empty clarity, a rare beacon of clarity. Read his articles here: https://app.box.com/s/ceb9i7wsk0lkfl2sjex97ai56l1k52pf


1 Comment


Yin Ling
Thank you!





...............


Tips on finding a good teacher:

Acarya Malcolm Smith:

You need to find a teacher. That is the base line. You cannot understand Dzogchen from books. Many people try. All fail.

In the beginning, you have to be like a bee, and visit and sample several teachers. Once you find the right teacher for you, then you settle down. The teacher, in every respect, is more important than the teaching.

.....

 
Kyle Dixon shared on how to find a qualified teacher:
Also going forward there are actually many guidelines for engaging in a teacher-student relationship in Vajrayāna, and I think it goes without saying, but this “teacher’s” conduct obviously renders him unqualified, here are some pointers from the Vajrayāna tantras themselves for any future endeavors. All teachers are to be rigorously vetted:
Mahāvidyādhara Jigme Lingpa states:
In the first place, the primary condition necessary for initiation is none other than the vajra master himself; therefore it is very important to examine the teacher to whom you are connected. As Orgyenpa has said:
Having an unexamined teacher is like jumping into an abyss;
Having an unexamined student is like drinking poison.
Because you must not make a mistake in this basic situation. I will examine the nature of it. The rig pa rang shar tantra teaches the following on the characteristics of a master:
A master endowed with the truth of the vajra should:
Have a good disposition and be skilled in teaching,
Have obtained initiation and have applied himself to the secret mantra [vajrayāna],
Know all of the outer and inner activities,
Be inseparable from his yidam deity,
Be undistracted in contemplation,
Be learned in the secret tantras of the secret mantra,
Which hold the truth of rdzogs chen man ngag sde
Have achieved all outer an inner accomplishments,
Never move from the meaning of the view,
Perform the outer, inner, and secret activities,
With qualities like precious jewels,
And an inexhaustible treasury of activity.
This tantra [rig pa rang shar] also speaks of six characteristics:
[i] having put all samsaric phenomena behind him, [ii] having few desires and being content, [iii] being skilled in practice and having had experiences, [iv] being learned in the meanings of the tantras and having striven to accomplish them, [v] being learned in the meaning of the view and being completely capable with it, and [vi] having great compassion and being happy in renunciation.
One with the complete set of these qualities is said to be necessary. If, on the other hand, he is merely an effigy of whom it is said This one is a wonderful source of miracles, This one holds an unsurpassable rank, and This one is a sacred object of worship and harmony with worldly people, then he is not [a genuine teacher]. From the same tantra [rig pa rang shar]:
Very proud and ignorant,
Followed because of his foolish words,
Without any realization of the meaning of secret mantra,
His arrogant words disparaging others,
Engaging in a false path,
Not seeing the face of the initiation mandala,
Becoming lax in his vows,
Not coming up with the answers to pure questions,
Very proud of the little he has learned,
The unexamined master is a demon of a master.
As it says, do not get involved with such a demonic master.
Longchenpa, in his own response to the above excerpt from the rig pa rang shar (regarding the unqualified teacher), states: Accordingly, I advise you to avoid them.
The kun byed rgyal po tantra states:
The inauthentic master teaches scripture like a monkey, his false path beset with concepts.
And regarding the qualified teacher it goes on to say:
The master who displays the truth is a precious treasury worth an inestimable price.
and Jamgon Kongtrul states:
Avoid a master whose traits are discordant with those of a true teacher; But since a fully qualified master is rare, follow the one who is replete with good qualities.
A teacher whose traits are discordant with the characteristics of the [true] master stands outside of the Buddhist doctrine and connot be taken as a spiritual teacher. Consequently, even though the teacher may be very famous, active, etc., the discriminating student should be aware [of these shortcomings] and detach him or herself [from the teacher]. This should be done even if a teacher-student relationship has already been formed. If one has not yet formed such a relationship, one should avoid doing so, right from the beginning. Sakya Pandita states:
Detach yourself from the spiritual teacher
Who does not conform to the Buddha's teaching.
We should learn how to recognize [bad teachers] from the many descriptions given in the scriptures and then shun them. For example, the Condensed Tantra [of the wheel of Time] states:
Proud, subject to uncontrollable anger, defiant of pledges, guilty of misappropriation, ignorant [of the doctrine], willfully deceptive of students, having failed to enter the state of supreme bliss, uninitiated, a slave to wealth and enjoyments, careless, rude in speech, and obsessed with sexual desire: wise students who wish full awakening should shun such a teacher as they would hell.
Because we are living in a [degenerate] age, we very rarely meet a teacher endowed with all of the necessary qualifications. Since we may never meet such a teacher, we should accept a master who has many good qualities and very few weaknesses. [Pundarika's] Ultimate Familiarization states:
In this age of conflict, spiritual masters will exhibit both faults and virtues; not one is absolutely irreproachable. Therefore, examine well even those who excel in virtue before beginning to study with them.
 

    Hi all.. Appreciate all the resources that have been shared in the group so far. Something has been on my mind for a long time but did not ask because there were some resistance on the idea of having a teacher. Can I ask what does it mean to look for a teacher? And how does a relationship between a dharma teacher and student looks like? I have felt a little stumped by this for a while.. And how do you approach a teacher? Do you commit to a single teacher or a few? If I participate in a certain sangha group or read a lot of books from a certain teacher, e.g. Plum village.. Does that mean thich nhat hanh is my teacher even though we have no personal relationship? I have read how people would travel to India.. Tibet.. Asian countries and live with a certain teacher for a while.. Is that still the practice now? Although it's not something I can do at this point in my life. Increasingly whatever I read.. It is pointing to the necessity of having a teacher. But have no idea what that means or what am I looking for.
    I did read the atr post on teachers that we trust...but it was still not very clear to me what it means to have a teacher. I have been sidelining this for a while.. I guess it's easier to just be reading.. Practicing and studying on my own than to have someone to answer to. I do think it's time I gain some clarity on this.

    4 Comments


    Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    If you can have mentorship meaning 1 on 1 conversation on a frequent basis with an awake teacher, that is best.
    Although preferably the teacher has gone through all the 7 stages, it may not be easy to find such a teacher. A teacher that can bring you to the next step is great and doesn't have to be perfectly enlightened. When you reach I AM and non dual for example, then you can switch your contemplative practice to penetrate the two stanzas of anatta and Bahiya sutta. But if you are just starting, even to reach I AM is a major breakthrough.


  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin


    ..................
     

    Another update, 2022:
    [redacted]

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  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    Personally, I did not "live" with John Tan and I meet him no more than a few times a year. In earlier years it may not even be once a year. But I frequently text him and he talks to me frequently online.


  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    Also as I mentioned before.. I am not a teacher and I am too busy. I have to put this out so I don't get bombarded with requests for mentorship by others😂

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    Jace Min
    Author
    Soh Wei Yu I mus say the whole group is very privileged.. Just have to drop a comment here to receive your wisdom. Isn't this more accessible than a usual student teacher relationship? 🤭
    Thanks for the replies and suggestions!



  • Ken Nishiyama
    Thanks for asking the question and also for the response. Once again, I've found exactly what I needed to hear here.


  • Yin Ling
    Admin
    Imo and for me, this relationship is fluid and dependent on one’s conditions and the availability of a teacher.
    For myself personally when I wanted to go deep into the dharma I tried sitting into a few free online classes and also free meditation classes with the traditional Buddhist monks etc but it didn’t work for me. It didn’t work because the guidance was too general and not personalised. They also didn’t have enough time to understnd my conditions because monastic tend to teach the public
    Hence I decided to try private teachers and got a contact from sending out some messages on Dharma overground and Reddit
    I paid to study with said teacher 1:1 an hour a week for about 15 months I think.
    She knows me inside out, I tell her everything, the relationship was extremely close. She guided me through the dukkha nanas and make sure I eat, don’t meditate too much, watch movie, take a break, see my friends lol. Like a mother. She’s lovely.
    Due to financial constraints I stop studying with her once a week and temporarily do it myself when I feel confident to be on myself .. usually this happens when one have Anatta insight .. there will be confidence with one’s mind.
    So now books are precious teachers. Conversations with John tan and soh are precious too. John is very kind and lent alot of confidence though he is not a teacher like in a teacher student relationship when each knows the other mind like their own.
    Now, Just sit and letting my mind show itself to me is my teacher, getting into situations and intuitively apply the teachings are teachers. Books from masters are wonderful teachers
    I don’t think there’s a one size fits all and I don’t think one can tell another what to do.
    Eventually a teacher need to lead one to see their own minds nature, so whichever method that can do that will work. Imo. 🙂


    Jace Min
    Author
    Yin Ling That's clear. Thank you. 🙏

  • Reply
  • 2h

Another update, 2022:

Bodhidharma: Only One Person In a Million Becomes Enlightened Without a Teacher's Help
Zen/Ch'an First Patriarch Bodhidharma:

Excerpts from http://www.buddhism.org/bodhi-dharmas-bloodstream-sermon/

To find a Buddha, you have to see your nature. Whoever sees his nature is a Buddha. If you don’t see your nature, being mindful of Buddhas, reciting sutras, making offerings, and keeping precepts are not equal to it. Being mindful of Buddhas results in good karma, reciting sutras results in a good intelligence; keeping precepts results in a good rebirth in heavens, and making offerings results in future blessings — but no buddha. If you don’t understand by yourself, you’ll have to find a teacher to know the root of births and deaths. But unless he sees his nature, such a person isn’t a good teacher. Even if he can recite the twelve groups of scriptures he can’t escape the Wheel of Births and Deaths. He suffers in the three realms without hope of release. Long ago, the monk Good Star was able to recite the twelve groups of scriptures. But he didn’t escape the Wheel, because he didn’t see his nature. If this was the case with Good Star, then people nowadays who recite a few sutras or shastras and think it’s the Dharma are fools. Unless you see your own Heart, reciting so much prose is useless.

To find a Buddha have to see your nature directly. Your nature is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the person who’s free: free of plans, free of cares. If you don’t see your nature and run outwards to seek for external objects, you’ll never find a buddha. The truth is there’s nothing to find. But to reach such an understanding you need a good teacher and you need to struggle to make yourself understand. Life and death are important. Don’t suffer them in vain.

There’s no advantage in deceiving yourself. Even if you have mountains of jewels and as many servants as there are grains of sand along the Ganges, you see them when your eyes are open. But what about when your eyes are shut? You should realize then that everything you see is like a dream or illusion.

If you don’t find a teacher soon, you’ll live this life in vain. It’s true, you have the buddha-nature. But the help of a teacher you’ll never know it. Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher’s help. If, though, by the conjunction of conditions, someone understands what the Buddha meant, that person doesn’t need a teacher. Such a person has a natural awareness superior to anything taught. But unless you’re so blessed, study hard, and by means of instruction you’ll understand.

People who don’t understand and think they can do so without study are no different from those deluded souls who can’t tell white from black.” Falsely proclaiming the Buddha-Dharma, such persons in fact blaspheme the Buddha and subvert the Dharma. They preach as if they were bringing rain. But theirs is the preaching of devils not of Buddhas. Their teacher is the King of Devils and their disciples are the Devil’s minions. Deluded people who follow such instruction unwittingly sink deeper in the Sea of Birth and Death. Unless they see their nature, how can people call themselves Buddhas they’re liars who deceive others into entering the realm of devils. Unless they see their nature, their preaching of the Twelvefold Canon is nothing but the preaching of devils. Their allegiance is to Mara, not to the Buddha. Unable to distinguish white from black, how can they escape birth and death?

Whoever sees his nature is a Buddha; whoever doesn’t is a mortal. But if you can find your buddha-nature apart from your mortal nature, where is it? Our mortal nature is our Buddha nature. Beyond this nature there’s no Buddha. The Buddha is our nature. There’s no Buddha besides this nature. And there’s no nature besides the Buddha.

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Update, 2022:


Conversation with Yasutani Roshi:

"Student: This will be my last sesshin, as I have to return to the United States next month. Will it be all right to train under a Soto priest there?

Roshi: Yes, but I would advise you not to be guided by him with respect to satori unless you are sure he is enlightened himself. Very few Soto priests these days have realized their True-nature and therefore they pooh-pooh the experience, saying in effect: "Since in possessing the Buddha-mind we are all inherently enlightened, why is satori necessary?" But this argument is specious, because until they have directly perceived their Buddha-mind they don't really know that they possess it.

Student: Then, is it possible for me to carry on my practice without a teacher?

Roshi: Whether you have no teacher in America or only a mediocre one, you can continue to discipline yourself in Zen by following what you have learned at this temple. Any teacher, even an unenlightened one, is able to supervise your practice. He can check your posture, for instance, and your breathing, and can guide you in other respects. But he ought not try to pass on satori unless he himself has had it and it has been verified by his teacher.

Student: Oh, yes, that reminds me of something I wanted to ask you. This morning in your lecture you spoke about the necessity of having one’s enlightenment confirmed by one's teacher because only in this way could correct Zen be transmitted. I don't quite understand this. Why is it necessary to be authenticated by anyone?

Roshi: Starting from the time of the Buddha Shakyamuni, correct Buddhism has been transmitted from teacher to disciple. Where the teacher's enlightenment has been authentic and sanctioned by his teacher, he has been able to sanction the enlightenment of his own disciples by using his own experience of enlightenment as a guide. You ask why this is necessary. It is necessary, first of all, in order to insure the transmission of true Buddhism from teacher to disciple. If this hadn't been done, there would be no authentic Zen today. But the truth is, you can never be sure by yourself that what you take to be satori actually is satori. With a first experience it is quite possible to misjudge it.

Student: But isn't enlightenment self-authenticating?

Roshi: No, it isn't. In fact, there are many examples of persons who became teachers without having enlightenment at all. It is like a person searching alone for diamonds in the mountains. If he has never seen a real diamond, he may think when he finds glass or quartz or some other mineral that he has found a genuine diamond. If he could verify his find through somebody who has had experience with diamonds, he could be sure. Failing that, he could easily make a mistake regardless of how brightly his stones glittered.

Student: This business of the transmission from the Buddha down to the present time - it isn't really true, is it? It's myth, isn't it?

Roshi: No, it is true. If you don't believe it, that's too bad."