Mr. K.O.O. mentioned Zen kensho is different from I AM. I replied:




  • badge iconMr. K.O.O,
    Depends. Maybe your teacher doesn't emphasize the I AM, but I have seen many that do. I used to learn from a Ch'an lineage that totally emphasizes that as well. Actually I find it is important and crucial, just that the teachers don't seem to understand anatta beyond the I AM and one mind they realised.
    Also, for example if you look into this, a lot of the descriptions reported are exactly pointing to the I AM -
    Including this:
    ""What is it that thinks in terms of good and bad, that sees, that hears?" If you question yourself profoundly in this wise, you will surely enlighten yourself. If you enlighten yourself, you are instantly a Buddha. The Mind which the Buddhas realized in their enlightenment is the Mind of all sentient beings. The substance of this Mind is pure, harmonizing with its surroundings. In a woman's body it has no female form, in a man's body it has no appearance of male. It is not mean even in the body of the lowly, nor is it imposing in the body of the noble. Like boundless space, it hasn't a particle of color. The physical world can be destroyed, but formless, colorless space is indestructible. This Mind, like space, is all-embracing. It does not come into existence with the creation of our body, nor does it perish with its disintegration. Though invisible, it suffuses our body, and every single act of seeing, hearing, smelling, speaking, or moving the hands and legs is simply the activity of this Mind. Whoever searches for Buddha and Truth outside this Mind is deluded; whoever directly perceives that his intrinsic nature is precisely that of a Buddha is himself a Buddha. A Buddha has never existed who has not realized this Mind, and every last being within the Six Realms of Existence is perfectly endowed with it. The statement from a sutra "In Buddha there is no discrimination" confirms this....
    ...This Mind is latent in everyone, it is the master of the six senses. The effects and causes of all transgressions vanish in a flash, like ice put into boiling water, when one awakens to this Mind. Only after gaining such direct Insight can you affirm that your own Mind is itself Buddha. The Mind-essence is intrinsically bright and unblemished, in it there is no distinction of Buddha and sentient beings. But its clarity is hidden by delusive thoughts just as the light of the sun or the moon is obscured by clouds. Yet such thoughts can be dispelled by the power of practicing zazen, in the same way that clouds can be dissipated by a blast of wind. Once they vanish, the Buddha-nature reveals itself, just as the moon makes its appearance when clouds disappear. This light has ever been present, it is not newly obtained outside oneself."
    3 / TO LORD NAKAMURA. GOVERNOR OF AKI PROVINCE /
    You ask me how to practice Zen with reference to this phrase from a sutra: "Mind, having no fixed abode, should flow forth." There is no express method for attaining enlightenment. If you but look into your Self-nature directly, not allowing yourself to be deflected, the Mind flower will come into bloom. Hence the sutra says: "Mind, having no fixed abode, should flow forth." Thousands of words spoken directly by Buddhas and Patriarchs add up to this one phrase. Mind is the True-nature of things, transcending ail forms. The True-nature is the Way. The Way is Buddha. Buddha is Mind. Mind is not within or without or in between. It is not being or nothingness or non-being or non-nothingness or Buddha or mind or matter. So it is called the abodeless Mind. This Mind sees colors with the eyes, hears sounds with the ears. Look for this master directly!
    A Zen master (Rinzai) of old says: "One's body, composed of the four primal elements,6 can't hear or understand this preaching. The spleen or stomach or liver or gall bladder can't hear or understand this preaching. Empty-space can't understand it. Then what does hear and understand?" Strive to perceive directly. If your mind remains attached to any form or feeling whatsoever, or is affected by logical reasoning or conceptual thinking, you are as far from true realization as heaven is from earth.
    How can you cut off at a stroke the sufferings of birth-and-death? As soon as you consider how to advance, you get lost in reasoning; but if you quit you are adverse to the highest path. To be able neither to advance nor to quit is to be a "breathing corpse." If in spite of this dilemma you empty your mind of all thoughts and push on with your zazen, you are bound to enlighten yourself and apprehend the phrase "Mind, having no fixed abode, should flow forth." Instantly you will grasp the sense of all Zen dialogue as well as the profound and subtle meaning of the countless sutras.
    The layman Ho asked Baso: "What is it that transcends everything in the universe?" Baso answered: "I will tell you after you have drunk up the waters of the West River in one gulp."7 Ho instantly became deeply enlightened. See here, what does this mean? Does it explain the phrase "Mind, having no fixed abode, should flow forth," or does it point to the very one reading this? If you still don't comprehend, go back to questioning, "What is hearing now?" Find out this very moment! The problem of birth-and-death is momentous, and the world moves fast. Make the most of time, for it waits for no one.
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    Your own Mind is intrinsically Buddha. Buddhas are those who have realized this. Those who haven't are the so-called ordinary sentient beings. Sleeping and working, standing and sitting, ask yourself "What is my own Mind?" looking into the source from which your thoughts arise. What is this subject that right now perceives, thinks, moves, works, goes forth, or returns? To know it you must intensely absorb yourself in the question. But even though you do not realize it in this life, beyond a doubt you will in the next because of your present efforts.
    In your zazen think in terms of neither good nor evil. Don't try to stop thoughts from arising, only ask yourself; 'What is my own Mind?" Now, even when your questioning goes deeper and deeper you will get no answer until finally you will reach a cul-de-sac, your thinking totally checked. You won't find anything within that can be called "I" or "Mind." But who is it that understands all this? Continue to probe more deeply yet and the mind that perceives there is nothing will vanish; you will no longer be aware of questioning but only of emptiness. When awareness of even emptiness disappears, you will realise there is no Buddha outside Mind and no Mind outside Buddha. Now for the first time you will discover that when you do not hear with your ears you are truly hearing, and when you do not see with your eyes you are really seeing Buddhas of the past, present, and future. But don't cling to any of this, just experience it for yourself!
    See here, what is your own Mind? Everyone's Original-nature is not less than Buddha. But since men doubt this and search for Buddha and Truth outside their Mind, they fail to attain enlightenment, being helplessly driven within cycles of birth-and-death, entangled in karma both good and bad. The source of all karma bondage is delusion, i.e., the thoughts, feelings, and perceptions (stemming from ignorance). Rid yourself of them and you are emancipated. Just as ash covering a charcoal fire is dispersed when the fire is fanned, so these delusions vanish once you realize your Self-nature.
    During zazen neither loathe nor be charmed by any of your thoughts. With your mind turned inward, look steadily into their source and the delusive feelings and perceptions in which they are rooted will evaporate. This is not yet Self-realization, however, even though your mind becomes bright and empty like the sky, you have awareness of neither inner nor outer, and all the ten quarters seem clear and luminous. To take this for realization is to mistake a mirage for reality. Now even more intensely search this mind of yours which hears. Your physical body, composed of the four basic elements, is like a phantom, without reality, yet apart from this body there is no mind. The empty-space of ten quarters can neither see nor hear; still, something within you does hear and distinguish sounds. Who or what is it? When this question totally ignites you, distinctions of good and evil, awareness of being or emptiness, vanish like a light extinguished on a dark night. Though you are no longer consciously aware of yourself, still you can hear and know you exist. Try as you will to discover the subject hearing, your efforts will fail and you will find yourself at an impasse. All at once your mind will burst into great enlightenment and you will feel as though you have risen from the dead, laughing loudly and clapping your hands in delight. Now for the first time you will know that Mind itself is Buddha. Were someone to ask, "What does one's Buddha-mind look like?" I would answer: "In the trees fish play, in the deep sea birds are flying." What does this mean? If you don't understand it, look into your own Mind and ask yourself: "What is he, this master who sees and hears?"
    Make the most of time: it waits for no one.
    4 / TO A DYING MAN /
    Your Mind-Essence is not subject to birth or death. It is neither being nor nothingness, neither emptiness nor form-and-color. Nor is it something that feels pain or joy. However much you try to know (with your rational mind) that which is now sick, you cannot. Yet if you think of nothing, wish for nothing, want to understand nothing, cling to nothing, and only ask yourself, "What is the true substance of the Mind of this one who is now suffering?" ending your days like clouds fading in the sky, you will eventually be freed from your painful bondage to endless change.
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    etc etc. It is clear that Phillip Kapleau teaches I AM as the beginning breakthrough like so many other Zen and Ch'an masters I encountered.
    I believe
    Angelo Gerangelo
    recommends that book as an essential reading.
    Also, Phillip Kapleau mentioned in his book "Straight to the Heart of Zen: Eleven Classic Koans & Their Inner Meanings", the two distinct phases of realization in Zen practice that corresponds to I AM realization and anatta~total exertion:
    "...A shallow kensho is not fully satisfying. One has seen into constant change, it is true, and into the formless Self as well - that which makes change possible. One has caught a glimpse of both change and changelessness. But it's only a glimpse, and it is not enough, because in reality, the two worlds of change and changelessness are not really two at all. After a time this initial seeing makes us want to go further, deeper. Instinctively we know that it's only well-chewed food that nourishes and satisfies. This we might take as meaning long training through which we more fully integrate our understanding into our daily lives. Our enlightenment is fully digested. Now change is Changelessness. This is what keeps away hunger and uncertainty, anxiety, fear, and above all unsatisfactoriness, the constant feeling of being on edge, alienated, separated - 'a stranger and afraid', as the poet A. E. Housman wrote, 'in a world I never made.' At last we know real peace.
    The verse says: 'This one instant, as it is, is an infinite number of kalpas.' What is a kalpa? The sutras describe a kalpa as the length of time it would take a heavenly being, a deva, sweeping its gossamer wings across the top of the mile-high mountain once each year to wear that mountain down to the ground. This one instant is a kalpa. All time is in this instant, and an infinite number of kalpas are, at the time, this one instant. All time means past, present, and future....
    ...if our mind is entirely free from both time and timelessness, it we are living fully and wholly every moment, every moment is everything; all of time is in each full, vitally alive moment. If one has truly seen into time and timelessness - if one has really become time itself - then there is no notion of time or timelessness to hinder or bind..."
    ""
    On the above excerpts I pasted John Tan 3 years ago, he also said:
    [5:41 PM, 10/22/2017] John Tan: Quite good.
    [5:41 PM, 10/22/2017] John Tan: But differentiate this from DO.
    [5:42 PM, 10/22/2017] John Tan: Different from Direct Experiencing and direct insight
    [5:43 PM, 10/22/2017] John Tan: Means like what I thought of u the other day no ordinariness or superior
    [5:43 PM, 10/22/2017] John Tan: But when u r fully engaged in life, there is life and death doesn't matters
    [5:44 PM, 10/22/2017] John Tan: This is different from DO and emptiness... How r they different?
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    Also, the Zen teacher Charlotte Joko Beck also taught two phases - These are just two examples. There are many others as well: https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../the-observing... -- although the description here isn't very much like I AM realization.
    There are also many Ch'an masters that emphasize koan to realize the I AM. Ch'an master Hsu Yun is one of them, also I quoted a number of Ch'an and Zen masters that emphasized that in the AtR guide.
    The Observing Self
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.BLOGSPOT.COM
    The Observing Self
    The Observing Self

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    Actually it's funny that you related Mahamudra with total exertion. Frankly in the past I have never seen any descriptions of total exertion in Mahamudra, John Tan and my impression of Mahamudra is that it is focused on the -A aspect of emptiness only.
    However, recently just two weeks ago, I discovered a description of total exertion in Mahamudra text, which describes mature One Taste as such: "...Having realized the three divisions of time to be the same, in a single moment you see them as indivisible, eons are condensed into an instant, and an instant opens into aeons. You master time. Since body, mind and phenomena are integrated, space and the palm of your hand are equal; the billion world systems fit into a few grains; one is transformed into many, and many are made into one...."
    (Coincidentally, similar to the Zen Master Phillip Kapleau passage I pasted above)
    So you may be right to relate that to higher one taste.
    John Tan agreed with me that this description is precisely Maha Total Exertion. He also said,
    [10:45 PM, 11/15/2020] John Tan: Doesn't sound like mahamudra
    [10:46 PM, 11/15/2020] Soh Wei Yu: lol.. its from the mahamudra book 'The Royal Seal of Mahamudra: Volume 2: A Guidebook for the Realization of Coemergence'
    [10:46 PM, 11/15/2020] John Tan: Yeh that is y I said doesn't sound like it

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      Is there a standard understanding of how these stages [Mahamudra four yogas] map over to Thusness's 7 stages? (Or am I stepping on a land mine by asking this? ;-))

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      I think Soh has gone there in the past. Perhaps search the 4 yogas in the blog (or here).

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      I think Soh has said that one-pointedness is I Am.
      I'd say one-pointedness is merely samadhi, while simplicity is anatta, and one taste is non-dual (but with the view of anatta). Non-meditation can only be shunyata and spontaneous perfection.
      The yogas are mainly meditative, while AtR is mainly view and inquiry, I'd risk to say.
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    • Comparative to the jhanas?

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      Matt Harvey
      moreover, AtR is hybrid (Advaita + Buddhism), while the 4 yogas is strickly buddhist.
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    • Michael Hernandez
      Jhanas are stages of samatha. Not insight.
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      Matt Harvey
      : There are two explanations on the yoga of one pointedness depending on which teacher teaches it. Some Mahamudra teachers teach the yoga of one pointedness as simply a samadhi state, no realization involved.
      However, in Clarifying the Natural State (a must read if you are into Mahamudra) by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal, it states, "You have seen the essence of One-Pointedness if you have reached a naturally knowing and confident certainty in your mind's aware emptiness. You have not seen the essence if you do not possess this confident certitude, even if you can remain in the states of bliss, clarity and nonthought." - https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../mahamudra...
      Dakpo Tashi Namgyal is saying here that One Pointedness is not simply a samadhi state of bliss, clarity and non-thought, that it confers a kind of realization and certainty about the mind's aware emptiness.
      I AM realization is also about the certainty of what Mind is. I say, it is similar. But this is just the beginning as it goes in AtR or Mahamudra path.






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        Matt Harvey
        Although I don't really like to compare paths nowadays (unless it is really of practical use to people? 🤔), since you are curious I'll just paste a conversation here, not sure if helps though.
        [12:39 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Now there is the 顿悟 [sudden realization, i.e. Zen] path. But mahamudra is not by the way of 顿悟。
        [12:40 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: So what is the way they use?
        [12:40 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: What is the technique they use?
        [12:41 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: They have many pointing out instructions and methods of investigating what mind is, what perception and thought is, and its nature
        [12:41 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Many?
        [12:41 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: I dun think so
        [12:41 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Lol
        [12:41 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: And also whether mind and perception is separable, whether mind and peeception is originating etx
        [12:41 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Etc
        [12:42 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: So what does that mean?
        [12:42 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: How do they investigate?
        [12:42 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Directly looking at mind’s nature
        [12:42 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: And how do u do that?
        [12:44 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: I have only another 15 mins for u...lol
        [12:44 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: In clarifying the natural state the investigation into Mind reveals Mind itself, to me it is no different from I AM
        [12:44 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Then they expand into perception and thought
        [12:44 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: And resolve the notion of duality, arising etc
        [12:44 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Thrangu Rinpoche:
        In the Vajrayana there is the direct path to examining mind. In everyday life we are habituated to thinking, "I have a mind and I perceive these things." Ordinarily, we do not directly look at the mind and therefore do not see the mind. This is very strange because we see things and we know that we are seeing visual phenomena. But who is seeing? We can look directly at the mind and find that there is no one seeing; there is no seer, and yet we are seeing phenomena. The same is true for the mental consciousness. We think various thoughts, but where is that thinking taking place? Who or what is thinking? However, when we look directly at the mind, we discover that there is nobody there; there is no thinker and yet thinking is going on. This approach of directly looking in a state of meditation isn't one of reasoning, but of directly looking at the mind to see what is there.
        Source: Shentong and Rangtong
        [link removed because it violates Facebook rules etc]
        ...
        If we look for a perceiver, we won’t find one. We do think, but if we look into the thinker, trying to find that which thinks, we do not find it. Yet, at the same time, we do see and we do think. The reality is that seeing occurs without a seer and thinking without a thinker. This is just how it is; this is the nature of the mind. The Heart Sutra sums this up by saying that “form is emptiness,” because whatever we look at is, by nature, devoid of true existence. At the same time, emptiness is also form, because the form only occurs as emptiness. Emptiness is no other than form and form is no other than emptiness. This may appear to apply only to other things, but when applied to the mind, the perceiver, one can also see that the perceiver is emptiness and emptiness is also the perceiver. Mind is no other than emptiness; emptiness is no other than mind. This is not just a concept; it is our basic state.
        The reality of our mind may seem very deep and difficult to understand, but it may also be something very simple and easy because this mind is not somewhere else. It is not somebody else’s mind. It is your own mind. It is right here; therefore, it is something that you can know. When you look into it, you can see that not only is mind empty, it also knows; it is cognizant. All the Buddhist scriptures, their commentaries and the songs of realization by the great siddhas express this as the “indivisible unity of emptiness and cognizance,” or “undivided empty perceiving,” or “unity of empty cognizance.” No matter how it is described, this is how our basic nature really is. It is not our making. It is not the result of practice. It is simply the way it has always been.
        Source: Crystal Clear ( [link removed because it violates Facebook rules etc] )
        ...

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        [12:44 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: That is not the way
        [12:46 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: [referring to pasted excerpt above] This is anatta.
        [12:46 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: So how do they recognize the mind?
        [12:46 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: It is not the same as I M.
        [12:47 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: It is by what?
        [12:47 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Contemplating on certain questions?
        [12:48 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: How do they resolve that mind is appearance and appearance is mind?
        [12:48 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: By direct authentication like anatta?
        [12:50 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: This is like going into I AM
        [12:50 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Then looking into thoughts, and then contemplating the relation between thought and Mind
        [12:50 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Why r u cutting and pasting me yet nothing nothing
        [12:50 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Until the duality is seen through and same taste is recognised
        [12:50 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: How do they do that?
        [12:51 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Is this the way?
        [12:52 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Until direct authentication dawn, there is no way to directly know. So what do they resolve it?
        [12:53 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: By various questioning and contemplation like what is the relationship between mind and perception.. and other methods of contemplation like the origin or perception to establish the non originated nature
        [12:54 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Faintz...
        [12:54 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: It is by understanding the nature
        [12:54 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: They try to find mind, they can find it, it is empty.
        [12:55 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: They try to find appearance, they realize they have the same nature.
        [12:55 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: That is how they investigate
        [12:56 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: They use the nature and realize they have the same nature..m
        [12:56 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Get it?
        [12:56 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: But that is not the direct taste
        [12:57 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: That is y they kept investigating the nature of whatever appears.
        [12:57 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: However it is very important and it also tell us more about clarity but understanding emptiness.
        [12:58 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Oic.. i thought the first contemplating on mind leads to something like i am..
        “You have seen the essence of One-Pointedness if you have reached a naturally knowing and confident certainty in your mind's aware emptiness. You have not seen the essence if you do not possess this confident certitude, even if you can remain in the states of bliss, clarity and non- thought.”
        [12:58 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: If they can have I M even better
        [12:58 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Means luminosity
        [12:58 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Not direct taste as in? Not I Am?
        [12:59 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Then they look into the nature and use the nature to resolve.
        [12:59 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: That is y the articles u send me kept talking about the nature and it is resolved.
        [12:59 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: But that is not an authentication
        [1:00 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: However if post anatta and non-dual, it helps one to penetrate further.
        [1:01 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
        [1:02 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Like how it helps me to understand the nature of clarity. But having an intellectual understanding of emptiness. How to relook at phenomena and mind and meditate on them.
        [1:02 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: U will breakthrough further.
        [1:02 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: When u look at a sensation, hear a sound, taste or vision
        [1:04 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: When u know emptiness, u have deeper understanding. When u go through mmk and understand more and more about chariot..
        U see and directly authenticate more and more of mind and phenomena.
        [1:04 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: By authentication you mean like anatta taste and realisation?
        [1:05 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: It will loosen the coventional grip on us and deepen our understanding.
        [1:05 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Yes
        [1:05 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Emptiness has another dimension if u practice diligently.
        [1:05 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: So u mean those mahamudra techniques is more about investigating the emptiness of everything but not necessarily anatta taste
        [1:06 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: It is not just walking in park and appreciate space like openness in non-dual mode.
        [1:07 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: This depends on the training. Like those articles u showed me, there is anatta and there is I M.
        [1:07 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: But the I M may not b as strong as those in advaita. I m not sure.
        [1:08 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
        [1:08 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Now having non-dual experience or a state of no- mind do not mean finality.
        [1:09 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: We must also free our from many more intellectual obscurations.
        [1:10 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: And other obscurations of cause.
        [1:10 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Like having non-dual or no-mind may not free on from the notion of self.
        [1:11 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Freeing one from the notion of self, may not free one from the notion of cause.
        [1:11 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Freeing one from the notion of cause, may not free one from the notion of existence.
        [1:12 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Freeing one from duality, may not free one from non-duality.
        [1:13 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: The color u see is neither inside, nor outside. It is inside, it is also outside. It is private, it is also public.
        So it is neither too.
        [1:14 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: So freedom from insight is not different from a blank state.
        [1:15 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: You mean is different
        [1:15 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Yes
        [1:15 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
        [1:17 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: So in addition to walking in a park, being anatta, borderless and open, non-dual and total exerted, u must also spend time to free up further intellectual obscurations to blind us.
        [1:18 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: That blind us I mean.
        [1:18 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Oic.. through mmk?
        [1:19 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: The chariot analogy is enough...but the diamond splitter, neither one nor many...all these ways of ultimate analysis that see through essence can help also.
        [1:20 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: But simple looking and understanding the chariot analogy helps me a lot...it depends on individual.
        [1:21 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Then authenticate it with ur actual experience in anatta.
        [1:21 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: That is y I say those article u pasted asking me is that subsuming is good.
        [1:22 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: But if u fail to c, u will miss the importance of it.
        [1:23 AM, 5/16/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
        [1:23 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: To me it is not to help resolve that appearances r just one's empty clarity but helps to refine my insight on the nature...
        [1:25 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: Our conventional knowledge has cage used into seeing a separate, divided physical and mental world.
        [1:25 AM, 5/16/2020] John Tan: The knowledge blinds and bind is to an assumed reality that is not easy to break.

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        Òskar K. Linares
        wanted to send you this conversation but it got removed.


        .....

        In a different facebook group, Rinzai Zen discussion, someone asked this question on the same day as above conversation, so I replied with a somewhat similar reply:

        "
        Is anyone familiar with Ku San Sunim? I wonder if the line "the One Thing that doesn't change" from the following talk at IMS 11/16/’80 could be mistranslated? From my understanding Buddha rejected Atman - the unchangeble, permanent Self. Could Ku San Sunim be possibly referring to something else?
        "From One Bright Thing, the brightness has many marvelous functions.
        All creations are good, but the One Thing that doesn’t change is most beautiful.
        The old mountains stand by the river.
        The boats from the ocean return to the shore. ""


        Soh replied:

        Ms. A.W.M.,

        Many Zen and Ch'an masters do point to a similar realization as Hinduism's Atman, however as some of them clarified, such as Phillip Kapleau Roshi, it is simply an initial realization and the realization is to be refined later on. Hinduism's Atman is the direct authentication of the aspect of the luminous clarity and Presence of our Buddha-nature, but its empty nature ('no mind' as taught by Bodhidharma) is realised later on. Prior to that refinement of insight, Buddha-nature can be somewhat reified into Atman-Brahman.
        For example, Phillip Kapleau Roshi mentioned in his book "Straight to the Heart of Zen: Eleven Classic Koans & Their Inner Meanings", the two distinct phases of realization in Zen practice that corresponds to what I personally term "I AM realization" and "anatta~total exertion":
        "...A shallow kensho is not fully satisfying. One has seen into constant change, it is true, and into the formless Self as well - that which makes change possible. One has caught a glimpse of both change and changelessness. But it's only a glimpse, and it is not enough, because in reality, the two worlds of change and changelessness are not really two at all. After a time this initial seeing makes us want to go further, deeper. Instinctively we know that it's only well-chewed food that nourishes and satisfies. This we might take as meaning long training through which we more fully integrate our understanding into our daily lives. Our enlightenment is fully digested. Now change is Changelessness. This is what keeps away hunger and uncertainty, anxiety, fear, and above all unsatisfactoriness, the constant feeling of being on edge, alienated, separated - 'a stranger and afraid', as the poet A. E. Housman wrote, 'in a world I never made.' At last we know real peace.
        The verse says: 'This one instant, as it is, is an infinite number of kalpas.' What is a kalpa? The sutras describe a kalpa as the length of time it would take a heavenly being, a deva, sweeping its gossamer wings across the top of the mile-high mountain once each year to wear that mountain down to the ground. This one instant is a kalpa. All time is in this instant, and an infinite number of kalpas are, at the time, this one instant. All time means past, present, and future....
        ...if our mind is entirely free from both time and timelessness, it we are living fully and wholly every moment, every moment is everything; all of time is in each full, vitally alive moment. If one has truly seen into time and timelessness - if one has really become time itself - then there is no notion of time or timelessness to hinder or bind..."
Something I always say when you are doing self enquiry or any other contemplations and meditations, this is crucial:


"We think it's all about like, again, because of our modern mind, we almost think everything can be solved through some sort of technology. Right, oh, I just need to do it different, there must be some secret trick to inquiry, that's our technological mind-set. Sometimes that's a mindset that is very useful to us. But, we don't want to let that dominate our spirituality. Because as I witnessed, the intensity of the living inquiry that's more important than all the techniques. 

 

When somebody Just Has To Know. Even if that's kind of driving them half crazy for a while. And, that attitude is as important or more important than all the ways we work with that attitude, you know, the spiritual practices, the meditations and various inquiries and various different things, sort of practices. If we engage in the practices because they are practices, you know like, ok I just do these because this is what I'm told to do, and hopefully it will have some good effect. That's different than being engaged, when you're actually being deeply interested in what you're inquiring about, and what you're actually meditating upon. It's that quality of real, actual interest, something even more than interest. It is a kind of compulsion, I know I was saying earlier don't get taken in by compulsion, but there is/can be a kind of compulsion. And that's as valuable as anything else going on in you, actually."

- Adyashanti

This is related to Zen's great doubt, great faith and great perseverance. Especially the aspect of Great Doubt.

Was going through some old Ven Hui Lu videos. Seems like he realised anatta, maha total exertion and emptiness way back, like even in 1990 and 1991 and probably even before. His view and realisation is clearly free from extremes of eternalism and nihilism, subject and object, etc, and penetrates into the emptiness of all phenomena... and most importantly the authentication of one's nature/the nature of all appearances as empty clarity.

所以禅不是坐。所谓坐,不动不名为坐,心无所著名为真坐。那个才是我们真正的坐,是禅。禅是动态里面的解脱,不是静态里面的休息。它很活跃的,有无量的妙用,在瞬息万变里面它悟到空性,而当下就可以运用六根、六尘、六识转为自性的东西,那个才是本来的面目。
所以今天听这个禅,诸位要稍微用心一点。禅是法界的实相,生命的共相,不二法门的体现,也是法的现量。

佛法有比量跟现量。所谓比量,是理性的认知,可以用logic来理解。而现量,禅宗里面讲的当下,那是绝虑忘言、冷暖自知的。一个参禅悟道的人,我悟道我怎么跟你讲,你始终隔着一层雾。你会想:“哦,师父讲,如如、不动、不变、随缘”,都是用意识里面的那个观念在推测,不变随缘,随缘不变的观念是什么,永远落入能、所对立的思想。

...

所以說禪是我們理性跟智性的登峰造極,這不是一般世間人聰明就可以解決的,禪是人文精神的昇華,是人們向前、向上努力創建的最高成就,人們必須達到這個境界才能陶然於存在又超越。既存在,就是面臨這個現實的社會,當下又去超越它,既自在又灑脫,既離執著的生活境界而安祥於每一個時空,也就是說,懷著宇宙的心過活你現象界的正常人生。

這一句話太棒了,我再講一遍——懷著宇宙的心過活現象界的正常人生。體會出來嗎?懷著宇宙,宇宙就是無量無邊,無止境的虛空,那麼大的胸量過活我們現在現象界的生活,現象就是你的起居作習,你必須吃飯,你必須穿衣對不對?你必須與人際交關係,這一些平常的生活。就是懷著如同虛空的胸量,過活你每一個生命的每一個點。

再来就是“照”,所谓照就是妙用的意思,实相的本体,还不能只是用寂静、透视、安详、绝对来解释,它还存在一种照的能力。这个“照”字就是无作的能力,不假任何的造作,具足有观照的能力,具足有无量的神通妙用的能力,就是寂照。这个所依,为文字所依,性体的所证,为观照所证,意思就是你修观照的功夫,到最后还是要证悟到你清净绝对的本性,为观照所证底下就写四个字,叫做:不生不灭。这不生不灭就不好讲了,我在这个地方再形容一下,你们务必要好好的听,所谓不生不灭,我们说:不是生,对灭讲的,也不是说灭,而对生讲的,意思就是说,生灭当下就是虚妄不实,一切都因为你的错觉而有生灭,但是你又不能放弃这个知觉的错觉,而悟到这个不生不灭的道理,我们讲真空之体,涅槃的不生不灭,不是你想像当中那一种不变的东西,或者是说你把它观想说,不生不灭就是一种永恒,就像虚空一样的,或者是说你把它观想说:这不生不灭大概是什么都不管,放下、放弃,那也不对!如果你把不生不灭当作说,在生灭里面有一种不生不灭,也不对!这很麻烦,这种东西,除非你开悟,否则讲来讲去,你都会落入两边的,你都会落入两边的东西。我现在举例子,如果你听得懂,你马上就彻悟,如果你听不懂的话,也可以给你一种启发。我现在注意讲,那你注意听什么叫做不生不灭,从几个角度来讲,譬如说这是一个钻石,放在这个地方,钻石有没有叫你贪?没有!它本来如如不动的放在这个地方,一切都是因为你起心动念,你强以分别它,所以说这是好的、这是贵重的、这是不好的,因此你起心动念,当你还没有来投胎这个世间的时候,你对它并不认识,当你来投胎出生以后,你有强烈对它有执著的观念,这就变成强烈的生灭,有我们这个生灭的心意识形态,作为生命的题材,就变成我们的色身,由前世的业力,转变到今生今世的色身,这个色身就变成共业所感的意识,生灭的执著,所以我们现在也只能做到心里的如如不动,你清清楚楚的看这个世间,你不思善,不思恶,就这个时候,就是你本来的面目,然后当你厘清楚了不生不灭自性的时候,你当下就了断无始劫以来的业力,来世你就不会来投胎,为什么?因为你没有业力,业力一观照的话,不生不灭的清净本性就显现出来,那你就断了一切的惑,断了一切的惑,你就没有做生命题材的东西。所以这个不生不灭,从我们本性来讲的话,我们有一个心,保持一个清净心、冷静的心,不受分别妄想颠倒左右,那个就是本来面目,这是一个角度来解释不生不灭。

  如果用这一张卫生纸,来解释不生不灭来讲的话,这卫生纸本身是一种缘起性空的,缘起是借重一切众生的意识形态,所构成的共业生灭的意识观念,意识观念,所以你看它有生有灭,你看它有生有灭,这是众生的共业所感,所产生的一种幻觉,以众生的位来讲,这明明有生灭,但是就本性来讲,你撕掉这个卫生纸,我问你:你本性有没有撕成两半?有没有?没有!意思就是生灭当体就是自性本空,让它生灭,你并不必要为这个生灭法起一个动念,你起一个动念就完全错误,生者自生,灭者自灭,不干你本性的事情,当下即如如,一切都如。这样讲如果还不清楚,我们再举一个例子,当我们没有来投胎的时候,我们完全没有作用,父精母血那么一点点的东西,你现在有所作用的这一念,统统是颠倒、妄想,等到几十年以后,你就要回归到你本来的面目,就是一切空,所以是故空中无色法,一切色法都是妄相;无受想行识,一切的感受、思想、一切的行为造作,意识形态,第八意识的识,受想行识,亦复如是,统统当体即空。所以实相就是真空之体,就是所谓的不生不灭,而不生不灭不是离开生灭法,离开生灭法里面,找不到一个不生不灭的自性,悟到了这个不生不灭的自性,他就不是一个普通人了,一切的世间再大的委屈、再大的伤害,他也没有感觉:我在忍耐,因为它本来就是没有的东西,你要叫他讲什么忍耐呢?讲无生法忍,即马上悟到无生法忍,连“忍耐”这二个字都不谈,本来就没有,你忍耐什么?一切法了不可得,自性圆明寂静,寂而常照,照而常寂,清清楚楚,六根门头惊天动地!我们叫做眼“见”眼睛“看”,而佛不是,他是眼“观”,他不是用看的,他用观的,你有见就是执著,佛用观的,所以“观”世音菩萨,就是观察一切众生的痛苦,观就是透视他,你眼见,见就是执。所以真空之体,就是我们所观照的所证的不生不灭。所以我们三十条清规里面就说:务使顿明心地,意思就是学佛第一个最重要的课程,你要先了解本性是什么东西,这是十方三世一切佛成道的根本,不悟到本性,你的修行会变成情绪化的变化,今天有赚钱,情绪就好一点;今天不好了,心情绪就不好了,他不能如如不动的东西,不悟到实相就不能如如不动的东西,没有办法!好!再来我们看到观照的般若,观照的般若就是实相之用,实相是法身,是理体;是圆明寂照;是不生不灭,那么这个观照是怎么样呢?是要让我们实行的,观照底下要写两个字:实行。

。。。

法尔如是,本来如此,本来就是了不可得;本来就是不可思不可议,本来就是不可讨论的东西,没有所谓的因缘果,佛性是超因、超缘、超果的,超越因缘果,是不昧因缘果,意思就是生灭法当下就是自性本空,就是不生不灭法,随缘当体即空,所以我们讲不变,因为不变的自性,所以我们能够随缘,方便讲是这样,毕竟讲是法尔如是,本来如此,叫做如如不动的东西。

。。。

深般若就是法空般若,法空般若包括色、受、想、行、识,我们说人空般若是色、受、想、行、识,知道它是这五蕴所构成的,而法空般若,包括色受想行识,包括地水火风,当体就是自性的东西,性色真空,真空性色。简单讲,人空般若,只悟到所有宇宙构成的元素,而法空般若是这些元素就是你本性的东西。

再讲一遍,人空般若,只悟到说,你的色自是地水火风构成的,而法空般若是当下地水火风就是你本性的东西。如果你造业就幻化成坚固,四大就成对立的东西,如果你悟到,这四大地水火风,就是你本性的东西,不离开你的色,不离开你的本性,色心无碍,所以具足神通。

。。。。

  无性真空,缘生幻色,无性因为缘生是无性的,所以它当体就是真空,真空就是绝对空,不容许一丝一毫的,一尘了不可得,空到底,叫做真空,空不到底叫做偏空。只有我空,空不到底。空到底是深般若。无性真空就是空到底。缘生幻色,一切都是缘起法,是变化出来的色法,是缘生幻色。因缘所变幻出来种种的色法。

  第三行,体相不离,空色不二。

  体是空,相是缘生,体跟相就是不离,不离就是空跟色是不二,体是空,相是有,所以空跟有是不二,体是无为法,相是有为法,有为不离无为,无为当下就是有为,有为当下就是无为,所以说空色不二。幻外无真,所以叫做真空,真外无幻,所以叫做幻色,幻就是烦恼法,烦恼法以外没有真,就是菩提,如果离开烦恼以外,就没有所谓的菩提,这叫做真正的菩提。真外无幻,如果菩提性以外,离开这个菩提,也没有所谓幻化的烦恼法,所以叫做幻色,所以真正的烦恼是来自于菩提。就是说,幻色为什么来自于菩提?因为不悟菩提,当然就是幻色。意思是说,幻外无真,当下就是真空,那么真外就没有所谓的幻化,所以当下就是幻色。波就是水,水当然就是波,湿性相同故。

  万法真如,真如有随缘德,意思就是我们清清净净的本性,随着一切生灭却不会变化,方便讲,不变随缘,真如是不变,我们现在不是真如,我们现在是分别、是执著,所以随缘就变,随缘就变,所以,我常常告诉同学们说,我常常喜欢用这样一个比喻说,当你们到火车站去的时候,上上下下的人那么多,举世尽从忙里过,谁人肯向死前休? 全世界的人都在忙,匆匆忙忙里面的度过,哪一个人世间肯在死亡里面下一番功夫?这个[死]字下功夫,平常放不下,要想在临命终放得下,那是自欺欺人,若要临终放得下,除非平日看得破,看破才能放下。所以说真如有随缘德,因此我希望保持一个无所著的心;因此我希望保持一个无所著的心;保持一个安详的心,好好地在空性里面下一番功夫,谁能给你烦恼?谁能给你痛苦?还都是自己。所以真如就是万法,因为妙法当体就是如,真如有不变性,所以万法就是真如。一切皆如,天台宗里面讲的一切皆如。无一法不如,为什么?每一法都有是空性的,当然就如,不如是你的家的事,是因为你幻化出来的妄想执著,所产生的强烈的对立观念,而在幻化的无明里面产生烦恼、欲望,因此滚动你的追求,所以你一直拉不回来,无法破这个无明的壳。所以,世界上谁是幸运的人?不是轿车、也不是中爱国奖券,不是中大家乐,也不是股票上扬,世界上是学佛的最幸福,但是哪一个人是至高无上最大的幸运呢?就是悟道的人,彻悟本性的人,那就是世界上最富有的人。为什么,全世界的财产给他他不增加;全世界的财产给他,他不减少,你看!不增不减,财产有多少呢?连零都不必写,你说这个数目有多大?你说1000,已经四个零了,一百亿、一千亿,那个数目字大到连零都不能写,再怎么添个零,还是不能描写那个大,在圣不增,在凡不减。所以我常常说,哪一门学问,有办法像佛陀这样子讲出来的学问,那真要跟他老人家嗑头。

  底下,看左边。
  真空幻有。中间那一行,中道一义照了分别。
  等一下最后看。

  真空幻有,那是对前面讲的万法真如。万法当体就是真如,可是真空就是真如,真如当下就是幻有。真空能成幻有,空性里面会幻化成这个色法,色法就是幻有,也幻化成受、想、行、识,意思是我们现在的感受,现在的思想,现在的行为造作,八识田中都是错误的,都是无量亿劫来造业,所存错误躯壳的思想,所以我为什么说,大企业家到最后要找宗教家?大科学家到最后也要找宗教家?为什么?你用尽了一切的受、想、行、识,去思维、去研究,你就是不能透出本性的东西出来,一样迷茫!一样迷茫!任凭你大企业家、大哲学家、大演绎家、大心理学家、大宗教家,除了佛教以外,不管你有多厉害。为什么?因为你离不开受、想、行、识,是不是?你今天你祷告上帝,你不是用受、想、行、识吗?你对上帝的感受,你想要到天堂去,你[行]就是祷告,这不是一样?而佛不一样,受想行一切皆空,当下就是如如,佛就是我,我就是佛,一体两面的东西,佛是我心中里面的,我是佛心中的一个众生,心、佛、众生三无差别,你说我在祈祷也对,你说我没有祈祷也对。

。。。。

法尔如是,就是讲如如,法尔如是,一切法本来就是自性空,没有所谓的对立;没有所谓的能所;没有所谓的分别;没有所谓的妄想;也没有所谓的颠倒、分别,统统没有,一切法皆如。为什么?一切法毕竟空。

...

无智得,智就是能观之知,得就是所证的理,以能观之知,认为有所得的证这个理,那么所谓无知呢,就是能观的知,空就是除掉,也没有所谓的能观的知,也没有所空的境界,因为境界本来就空,不需要你加一个空的思想,我修行,我不要除掉这个境界,圣人除心不除境,是不是?凡夫是除境不除心,你圣人的话,大智慧的人,于内觉观,于一念顷,即入圣位,一刹那之间,你观照你的内在,你就马上进入圣人的位次里面。于一念顷,内觉观,内,观照你的内在,无所得,一切什么都放得下来。所以,圣人修心不除境,你只要好好地在心地上下功夫,那境界就不重要了,怎么来你怎么去面临它,当然凡夫会受到境界的影响,我们还是没有办法,还是好好地调配一下。所以能观知也空,所空的境也空,意思是不能认为这个境界是被你所空,这样也是一种执著,意思就是说境界当体即空,不需要你去空掉它,不须要多事就对了。无智方为真智。无智就是你不动用到所谓的世智辩聪,没有动用到所谓的智慧,那就是真正大智慧的人,因为本性具足,自然流露。无得方是真得。对!因为你没有所谓的得,因为有得必有失。

etc



A teaching by Buddha on how a Buddha perceives the world -- as it is, in its suchness, without the delusion of a perceiver or perceived object. Commentary says five hundred monks attained liberation upon listening to this discourse.

Ven Nanamoli’s translation:

"Whatever in this world with its deities ... is to be seen, heard, sensed, and cognized, or reached, sought out and encompassed by the mind, that I know, that I have directly known. Now while that is recognized by a Perfect One, he nevertheless does not use it as a basis (for conceits). Were I to say of all that, that I know it not, that would be falsely spoken by me; and were I to say of it that I know it and know it not, that would be the same; and were I to say of it that I neither know it nor know it not, that would be incorrect on my part. So, having seen what can be seen, a Perfect One conceives no conceit3 of what is seen, he conceives no conceit of what is unseen, he conceives no conceit of what could be seen, he conceives no conceit of any seer. Having heard what can be heard ... Having sensed what can be sensed ... Having cognized what can be cognized ... he conceives no conceit of any cognizer. A Perfect One thus equipoised towards things seen, heard, sensed, or cognized, remains thus equipoised; and there is no other equipoise that is beyond or superior to that equipoise, I say."
A. 4:24

Another translation, by Ven Thanissaro:

At Kāḷaka’s Park
Kāḷaka Sutta (AN 4:24)
NAVIGATIONSuttas/AN/4:24
On one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Sāketa in Kāḷaka’s park. There he addressed the monks: “Monks!”
“Yes, lord,” the monks responded to him.
The Blessed One said: “Monks, whatever in this world with its devas, Māras & Brahmās, in this generation with its contemplatives & brahmans, its rulers & commonfolk, is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, pondered by the intellect: That do I know. Whatever in this world with its devas, Māras & Brahmās, in this generation with its contemplatives & brahmans, its rulers & commonfolk, is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, pondered by the intellect: That I directly know. That has been realized by the Tathāgata, but in the Tathāgata1 it has not been established.
“If I were to say, ‘I don’t know whatever in this world… is seen, heard, sensed, cognized… pondered by the intellect,’ that would be a falsehood in me. If I were to say, ‘I both know and don’t know whatever in this world… is seen, heard, sensed, cognized… pondered by the intellect,’ that would be just the same. If I were to say, ‘I neither know nor don’t know whatever in this world… is seen, heard, sensed, cognized… pondered by the intellect,’ that would be a fault in me.
“Thus, monks, the Tathāgata, when seeing what is to be seen, doesn’t suppose an (object as) seen. He doesn’t suppose an unseen. He doesn’t suppose an (object) to-be-seen. He doesn’t suppose a seer.
“When hearing.…
“When sensing.…
“When cognizing what is to be cognized, he doesn’t suppose an (object as) cognized. He doesn’t suppose an uncognized. He doesn’t suppose an (object) to-be-cognized. He doesn’t suppose a cognizer.
Thus, monks, the Tathāgata—being the same with regard to all phenomena that can be seen, heard, sensed, & cognized—is ‘Such.’2 And I tell you: There is no other ‘Such’ higher or more sublime.
“Whatever is seen or heard or sensed
and fastened onto as true by others,
One who is Such—among the self-fettered—
would not further claim to be true or even false.
“Having seen well in advance that arrow
where generations are fastened & hung
—‘I know, I see, that’s just how it is!’—
there’s nothing of the Tathāgata fastened.”
Note
1. Reading tathāgate with the Thai edition.
2. Such (tādin): An adjective applied to the mind of one who has attained the goal. It indicates that the mind “is what it is”—indescribable but not subject to change or alteration.

Another translation, by Ven Nyanananda, Magic of Mind:

KALAKARAMA SUTTA
Translated by Bhikkhu Nanananda

http://www.nibbanam.com/MagicOfMind.pdf

At one time the. Exalted One was staying at Saketa in Kalaka's monastery. There the Exalted One
addressed the monks, saying: `Monks'. `Revered Sir,' replied those monks in assent. The Exalted One
said:

"Monks, whatsoever in the world with its gods, Maras and Brahmas among the progeny
consisting of recluses and brahmins, gods and men, - whatsoever is seen, heard, sensed,(1) cognized,
attained, sought after and pondered over by the mind - all that do I know. Monks, whatsoever in the
world ......... of gods and men, - whatsoever is seen, ........ by the mind, - that have I fully understood;
all that is known to the Tathagata (2) but the Tathagata has not taken his stand upon it.(3)
If I were to say `Monks, whatsoever in the world..... of ..... gods and men -whatsoever is seen .....
by the mind - all that, I do not know' – it would be a falsehood in me’.(4) If I were to say: ‘I both
know and know not’ – that too would be a falsehood in me. If I were to say: ‘I neither know it nor
am ignorant of it’ – it would be a fault in me (5). Thus, monks, a Tathdgata does not conceive (6) of a visible thing as apart from sight(1a); he does not conceive of ‘an unseen’ (2a) he does not conceive of a
'thing-worth-seeing', (3a) he does not conceive about a seer. (4a)
He does not conceive of an audible thing as apart from hearing; he does not conceive of 'an
unheard', he does not conceive of a 'thing-worth-hearing'; he does not conceive about a hearer. He
does not conceive of a thing to be sensed as apart from sensation; he does not conceive of an
unsensed; he does not conceive of a `thing-worth-sensing'; he does not conceive about one who
senses. He does not conceive of a cognizable thing as apart from cognition; he does not conceive
of an uncognized; he does not conceive of a `thing-worth-cognitiog'; he does not conceive about
one who cognizes.

Thus, monks, the Tathagata, being such-like in regard to all phenomena seen, heard, sensed,
and cognized, is `Such'. (5a) Moreover, than he who is `Such', there is none other greater or more
excellent, I declare.(6a)
`Whatever is seen, heard, sensed or clung to,
is esteemed as truth by other folk,
Midst those who are entrenched in their own views, (7a)
being 'Such' I hold none as true or false.

This barb I beheld, well in advance,(1b)
'whereon mankind are hooked, impaled.
`I know, I see 'tis. verily so' - (2b)
no such clinging for the Tathagatas
Notes:

(1) 'muta': Sensations arising from taste, touch and smell.

(2) According to the Commentary (AA) 'the plane of omniscience' sabbannutabhumi has been made known by the three phrases: 'all that do I
know', 'that have I fully understood' and 'all that is known to the Tathagata.'

(3) Comm: 'The Tathagata does not take his stand upon, or approach by way of craving or
views. The Exalted One sees a form with the eye, but in him there is no desire and lust (for it); he
is well released in mind. The Exalted One hears a sound with the ear . . . . . smells an odour with
the nose ..... tastes a flavour with the tongue .... touches a tangible with the body ...... cognizes an
idea with the mind, but in him there is no desire-and-lust; he is well released in mind (S. IV 164) -
hence was it said that the Tathagata takes no stand upon it. It should be understood that by this
phrase the plane of the Influx-free khinasavabhumi is made known.'

(4)This rendering is in accordance with the reading 'na janami found in the Chattha Sangiti edition.
Enquiries have revealed that it conforms to the Mandalay Slabs. The P.T.S. edition, as well as some
Sinhala script editions, gives ' janami omitting the negative particle, but this is unlikely, as it
contradicts the Buddha's own statement in the preceding para. The initial declaration 'all that do I
know' tamaham jdndmi') is reinforced by what follows: `that have I fully understood' (tamahain ab
bhannasim `all that is known to the Tathagata' (tam tathigaiassa viditam") A significant reservation has
also been added : `but the Tathagata has not taken his stand upon it' (tam tathagato na upatthdsi'). Hence
the reading janami would lead to a contradiction: 'If I were to say .......... all that do I know ........ it
would be a falsehood in me'. The variant reading 'na janami on the other hand, suggests itself as the
second alternative of the tetralemma, followed as it is by the third and fourth alternatives.
The relevance of these three alternatives to the context is reflected in that reservation referred to
above.

(5)The phrases: 'it would be a falsehood in me', 'that too would be a falsehood in me,' 'it would be a
fault in me', are said to indicate the 'plane of truth' (saccabhumi).

(6)'Na mannati : Mann ana marks that stage in sense perception when one egotistically imagines or
fancies a perceived 'thing' to be out there in its own right. It is
a fissure in the perceptual situation which results in a subject - object. dichotomy perpetuating the
conceit and 'mine'.

(1a) The Comm: (AA. SHB. 519) takes the words datttha datthabbam in the text to mean: `having seen, should be
known' and explains the following words dittham na mannati' as a separate phrase meaning that the Tathagata does not
entertain any cravings, conceits or views, thinking: I am seeing that which has been seen by the people'. It applies the
same mode of explanation throughout. It is perhaps more plausible to explain dattha or dittha (vl. in Burmese MSS;
see A. II 25 fn. 3)' as an ablative form of the past participle giving the sense: `as apart from from sight'; and,
`datthabbam dittham' taken together, would mean: 'a visible thing'. So also, the other three corresponding terms: sutta
muta and vinnatam The Buddha Jayanthi Tipitaka Series (No. 19, Sinhalese script) recognizes this reading but follows
the Comm. in rendering them as absolutives.The Sangiti Pitaka edition (Burmese script) as well as the P.T.S. edition,
has the absolutive form: 'sutva' 'mutvd' and vinnatva -which is probably a re-correction following the commentarial
explanation,

(2a) 'adittham na mannati': According to the Comm. this means that the Tathagata does not fancy (due to craving etc.)
He is seeing something which has not been seen by the people. But the expression seems to imply just the opposite.
It brings out the idea behind the statement: "If I were to say: 'Monks, whatsoever in the world ... of ... gods and men
whatsoever is seen ... by the mind -all that I do not know,' it would be a falsehood in me."

(3a) `datthabbam' na mannati': Here the full gerundival sense of the verb is evident. The Tathagata does not consider
any of those 'sights' that people cherish, as 'worth-whileseeing' - in the highest sense. He does not see anything
substantial in them.

(4a) 'dattharam na mannati': The Tathagata does not entertain any conceit of being the 'agent' behind seeing. When
'sights' lose their object-status they do not reflect a 'seer' on the subjective side. These four modes of conceiving
represent the plane of voidness' sunnatabhumi

(5a) tadi 'Such' o r 'Such-like.'
An epithet of the emancipated one signifying his supreme detachment. This
declaration indicates the. plane of the 'Such One' (tadibhumi).

(6a) 'tesu ...... sayasamvutesu The Comm. says: 'among those who are of (divers) views and who had
grasped them having themselves recollected and cherished those view-points'. The expression rather conveys the
sense of self -opinionatedness due to philosophical in-breeding, and may be rendered by: 'among those who are
restricted samvuta to their own views'.

(7a) [Seems to be missing in the PDF...]

(1c)etanca sallam paligacca disva `Having seen this barb well in advance'- explained by the Comm as the
barb of views which the Buddha saw in advance, at the foot of the Bodhi tree.

(2c)`janami passami tatheva etam': A phrase often cited in the Pali Canon as representing the stamp of
dogmatism characteristic of speculative views. It is on a par with the dogmatic assertion: `idameva
saccam moghamannam' (`This alone is true, all else is false') which accompanies the formulation of the
ten 'Unexplained Points' (avyakatavatthuni).

Ven. Nyanananda wrote this in the Introduction:
“The commentary (A.A.) finds for it a setting in the aftermath of the conversion of the millionaire Kàlaka, who is supposed to have constructed the monastery. According to it, the discourse was a sequel to the widespread acclamation of the Buddha's marvellous qualities. Be that as it may, the discourse, as a matter of fact, does contain some marvellous aspects of the Tathàgata's transcendental wisdom. That the impact of the discourse was actually astounding is symbolically expressed by the commentarial assertion that the earth trembled at five points in this sermon, at the conclusion of which five hundred monks attained Arahantship.”