Join the Awakening to Reality Facebook Discussion Group at

This is a facebook group based on the blog Awakening to Reality. For newcomers who are new to the blog, please read this article for a basic understanding of what this group is about and the terms we use: Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment

Any member of this group can invite anyone who might benefit from joining this group.

The purpose of this discussion group is to facilitate any discussions about the contents of the blog. Also, if anyone has questions, or requests for any guidance, my hope is that someone else more experienced can serve as a guide to him/her.

I am in part inspired by what Liberation Unleashed has been doing - direct pointing has successfully led many people to have certain breakthroughs in their realization. Due to time constraints I am unable to do personal 1 on 1 pointing and guidance for everyone who contacts me through the blog, but I trust that many in this group have the capacity to help others who need help.

I was heartened to hear from Angelo Gerangelo (who personally went through similar progression i.e. I AM to non dual, anatta and total exertion) today, who told me that someone he knew "...took 20 years to break Mu. That’s 20 years to I Am. I personally think that cannot be blamed on the student but on the clarity of the teaching. If someone wants to wake up and is willing to work at it sincerely I take 200% responsibility to show them exactly how it is possible. That’s on me. Doing the work is on them."

It is thus my wish that this group serve as a place to facilitate any sort of constructive discussions that can be of benefit to one's spiritual growth.

However, unlike Liberation Unleashed, the scope of this group is *not* limited to direct pointing only, as other forms of discussions related to the blog contents are also welcome.

Another point - earlier on Piotr wrote about keeping this group focused on direct pointings to anatta, dependent origination and emptiness - although those are certainly part of the 'scope of discussions' for this group. I'm going to broaden the scope of this group a bit, to include everything the blog talks about, including self enquiry and I AM realization, and other topics like karmic tendencies, so on and so forth.

Rules -

As a general guideline only: Please keep discussions constructive, try to keep idle talks to a minimum, and it is a rule that no personal attacks are welcomed here (please be kind to each other).


Lately more people have been contacting us. I just wrote to someone who wanted to meet up with Thusness and I:

That should get you started. Any further discussions it will be best if we can take it to 😊

Also, I do not buy into the old model of guru. I do not buy into the model that teaches a need for “surrendering to the guru”. Some people find that helpful, that’s fine, but it is not necessary for enlightenment. I prefer the modern (actually not so modern – it is so even in the days of early Buddhism) model of spiritual friendship as explained by Greg Goode:

Which is also why the Awakening to Reality group is a good one, as Daniel M. Ingram wrote:

"the collective wisdom of a group of strong practitioners at various stages and from various traditions and backgrounds is often better than following one guru-type".

(Update/Clarification: I'm not discouraging anyone from finding and following a guru. If you can find a good teacher or guru, that can be of great help to your practice and progression as I can attest that my progression is possible due to my ongoing discussion with Thusness/John Tan, however I do not have any wish to be a guru and do not have time to be in close contact with anyone. Collective wisdom from group discussions are often times better than just receiving the wisdom of one guru-type person - but you can certainly benefit and receive wisdom from both a good guru and a group.)

I am not a teacher, and Thusness does not wish to teach. We are people with a busy life and job/work/friends/family. We do not hold teachings, satsangs, meet ups (Thusness has not participated in any spiritual gatherings for many years and only meets me a few times a year), retreats, and so on. We are not monks nor do we work at a spiritual organization to propagate teachings. It is not realistic given our circumstances to be in frequent contact with “followers” and to be giving personal guidance to others. Hence, an online community of like-minded practitioners (some of whom are deeply realized and have gone through similar realizations) is more helpful in this case.

p.s. if anyone is able to translate Thusness's Seven Stages to other languages, that will be great, do let me know. In the past I've translated it to Chinese along with a short verse from Bahiya Sutta and posted that in a forum in China, and that alone resulted in a Chinese forummer coming to the realization of anatta (previously he was in the I AM stage). By translating these to other languages, more people can become awakened.

[9:40 PM, 3/29/2019] Soh Wei Yu: Now I’m walking.. absolutely no self /Self/agency at all.. and the pce [i.e. the vivid radiance of anatta that 'makes' everything like a wondrous paradise is now my unbroken state] is still there as before but the main characteristic that stands out now is not the radiance but the walking is just infinitude of the universe as the seamless activity.. in the absence of an agent/self/Self there is just this

[9:42 PM, 3/29/2019] Soh Wei Yu: [And also the experience comes with a] Very still mind.. except when writing this
[9:42 PM, 3/29/2019] John Tan: Yes don't focus, relax and be light. No self, no center. Don't over do. Learn a somatic technique.
[9:52 PM, 3/29/2019] Soh Wei Yu: yea this cosmic sense of centerless ness is different from focused kind of pce.. it’s like pce is already natural here and makes no sense to focus more.. the cosmic sense of Maha does not require focusing but complete opening without self/Self/agent... it created no tension in my head at all
[9:55 PM, 3/29/2019] John Tan: Yes
[9:57 PM, 3/29/2019] John Tan: Just centerless and without background, light and immense. No focus no concentration. Natural and free.
[9:57 PM, 3/29/2019] John Tan: And master a somatic technique to release ur body and any form of energy imbalance.


Update, wrote to someone:

"It is good you are seeing the fabrications working together to shape a dualistic experience. That is seeing the afflictive dependent origination, seeing that selfing-activity, duality, grasping as the very activity that dependently originates. Therefore there is no self/Self/agent, but there is the afflictive sense of self, grasping and reification in action. There is no actor but there is action, be it afflictive or non-afflictive.. it is not an agent giving rise to afflictive activities but afflictive activities giving rise to selfing through dependent arising

As for total exertion and maha, that is more on the non-afflictive side of dependent origination, the general principle of dependent origination. You will see that the +A expressions are all over in Dogen's writings, whereas the Mahamudra/Tibetan tends to emphasize more on -A.

I started having mini glimpses of total exertionas early as 2011 but only had very clear experiences of it beginning in 2013 where I wrote about dharma body - -- where even the walking activity is as immense and boundless as the whole universe, a seamless activity of mind-body-universe.

John Tan used the word Maha and Total Exertion to describe this, it is about totality. Maha means great, but it is not big vs small, but great without boundaries. Immense as the universe. As he often said, be light as feather but immense as the universe.

Nowadays the infinitude of maha total exertion has become a natural, effortless state as an ongoing experience. When you are doubtless and stabilized anatta, you must mature your insight and experience in this direction.

That Maha total exertion must become a natural state, as written in -

"A week ago, the clear experience of Maha dawned and became quite effortless and at the same time there is a direct realization that it is also a natural state. In Sunyata, Maha is natural and must be fully factored into the path of experiencing whatever arises. Nevertheless Maha as a ground state requires the maturing of non-dual experience; we cannot feel entirely as the interconnectedness of everything coming spontaneously into being as this moment of vivid manifestation with a divided mind.

The universe is this arising thought.

The universe is this arising sound.

Just this magnificent arising!

Is Tao.

Homage to all arising."

Even if you see the Actual Freedom teachings, there are two stages of actual freedom.

1) The basic, newly-free actual freedom is characterized by the lack of separative identity, feeling-being, magical and wonderful luminosity as actual time and form,

"On the woven table mat my attention was drawn to a dark blue plastic cigarette lighter, an empty glass, a tobacco pouch and other sundry items. All of a sudden, Richard’s phrase “the actual world of people, things and events” came to mind and I found myself acknowledging that the things on the table existed in actuality, i.e. did in fact actually exist, and this being the case, here I was waving my hand in front of “people”, in this case Richard, saying that I experienced him as if behind a veil, i.e. not actually existing. It took only a few more seconds of switching my attention from the things on the table and my waving hand for the whole illusion of a separating veil to collapse – along with my illusory self-centred identity as I was gradually becoming aware of.

The whole experience was like a seamless transition between two worlds – from being a feeling being trapped within an illusionary all-encompassing self-created and sustained bubble to being here in the actual world. There was no dramatic end for ‘me’, no death-like traumatic experience, no prior psychic events or escapades, no “wall of fear”, no “abyss” – rather there was a profound experience of sweetness, a ready acknowledgement of my destiny and a final understanding that the feeling of separateness was nothing other than an illusion of ‘my’ own making." - Peter

"There was no fear, no experience of death, no physical phenomena or changes, just the realization that I have always been here in this eternal moment in time, in this luminous magical world, more naked than I was born and utterly safe... ...The next morning was the real test – I half-expected that I had reverted back to normal but the world was just as brilliant, beneficial and wunderbar as I had experienced it the night before. I am still surprised how easy it all turned out to be in the end." - Vineeto

This is why I asked how thorough are you experiencing the 2nd stanza.. as well as the intensity of luminosity as vivid form, this is important as well in addition for the aspect of no agent. But from what you messaged me it you are already experiencing that aspect well at the moment.

2) The Fully Free actual freedom characterized by permanent experience of infinitude [not just glimpses] that comes soon after the loss of social identity (from what I understand from that website, that includes views, impinging on what actions to take and interpretations of one's pure experience including of that infinitude, sometimes subtly interpreting it wrongly or in terms of metaphysical essence based on the convo of Vineeto with a newly-free person) - to me what I see as more crucial is that the view aspect must be clear. This is also related to the example of the video by Leo on describes the Maha Total Exertion glimpses in 5-Meo-DMT trip, but he is still having view of inherent existence, and misinterpreting that infinitude in terms of metaphysicality in the same way that Vineeto discussed with another guy. With that social identity or 'shadow being' in place, it prevents the permanent experience of infinitude.

But that is how AF expresses or interpretes. For you, you just need to be clear on anatta and D.O., that will lead to effortless Maha/total exertion. There must not be desync of view and experience, otherwise it will be a hindrance.

But the progression is quite similar -- means anatta in two stanza stabilized, then glimpses of maha total exertion, then a shift into permanent total exertion. But AF lacks emptiness.

As John Tan wrote previously, “Richard's experience is not different from total exertion. However his actual view will be restricting him imo.”


As Vineeto (who has become almost like a successor or Richard at the moment, being the first fully free person besides Richard himself, and I think is currently living with Richard) wrote:

VINEETO: Yes, the definite moment of becoming fully free happened on October 12, 2010.

And yes, "the experiences and investigation around those interactions constituted the bulk of the ‘many more things’."

To refresh my memory I checked what I wrote to Tarin in November 2010 about this period after the abdication of the guardian –

[Vineeto]: Frequent interactions with Richard quite often resulted in glimpses of a greater depth to an actual freedom and at the time I called them windows into purity. Both Richard and I had noticed that when I described how I experienced myself, words such as the ‘immaculate purity’ and ‘pristine limpidness’ where not part of my vocabulary and, except for a few occasional glimpses, neither did I mention in my description experiencing the infinitude of this spatially infinite, temporally eternal and perpetually forming and changing universe, whereas Richard has described his experience of an actual freedom in such glowing terms like in one of my favourite excerpts from his journal –

[Richard]: "There is something precious in living itself. Something beyond compare. Something more valuable than any "King’s ransom". It is not rare gemstones; it is not singular works of art; it is not the much-prized bags of money; it is not the treasured loving relationships; it is not the highly esteemed Blissful States Of ‘Being’ ... ... it is not any of these things usually considered precious. There is something ultimately precious. It is the essential character of the infinitude of the universe … which is the life-giving foundation of all that is apparent. That something precious is me as-I-am ... me as I actually am as distinct from ‘me’ as ‘I’ really am. I am the universe’s experience of itself. The limpid and lucid perfection and purity of being here now, as-I-am, is akin to the crystalline perfection and purity seen in a dew-drop hanging from the tip of a leaf in the early-morning sunshine; the sunrise strikes the transparent dew-drop with its warming rays, highlighting the flawless correctness of the tear-drop shape with its bellied form. One is left almost breathless with wonder at the immaculate simplicity so exemplified ... and everyone I have spoken with has experienced this impeccable purity and perfection in some way or another at varying stages in their life. Is it not impossible to conceive – and just too difficult to imagine – that this is one’s essential character? One has to be daring enough to live it ... for it is both one’s audacious birth-right and adventurous destiny.

When one lives the magical perfection of this purity twenty-four-hours-a-day; when one has ceased being ‘I’ and is being genuine, one can see clearly that there is no separation between me and that something which is precious. The purity of life emerges from the perfection that wells up constantly due to an immense stillness which is utterly immense in its scope and magnitude. This stillness of infinitude is that something which is precious. It is the life-giving foundation of all that is apparent. This stillness happens as me. This stillness is my essential disposition, for it is the principle character, the intrinsic basis of everything. It is this universe at its genesis. It is not, as it might commonly be supposed, at the centre of everything ... there is no centre here. This stillness, which is everywhere all at once, is the be all and end all of life itself. I am the universe experiencing itself as a sensate, reflective human being." Richard’s Journal, 1997, Article Twenty-five

In the early months of this year [2010] I had plenty of opportunity to read Richard’s words describing the outstanding quality of an actual freedom while I was updating the website, replacing all footnotes with the new format of tool-tips and I became starkly aware of the vast gap of experiencing between his descriptions and my own experience of myself and the world around me."

After the abdication of the guardian I was one day ready to allow myself to fully (and permanently) experience the spatial infinitude of the universe. Here is the description of what happened –

[Vineeto]: "The next significant event happened a week after my completion [the abdication of the guardian]. It began with an eerie sensation in the head as if my brain was being operated on whilst being fully conscious. After about 15 minutes or so there was a sensation as if my brain was being scattered throughout the universe. When I recovered from the experience itself enough to find out what actually happened, I noticed that I had lost my centre of reference (a discovery that left me quite disconcerted for about 2 weeks). Richard reported that in the days before he was able to existentially sense me as being close, very close, right in front of his eyes, so to speak, but that after this event he has been no longer able to sense me existentially. The direct result of losing the boundaries of my localized reference during this ‘brain-scattering’ event is that I am permanently apperceptively aware of the infinitude of the universe as infinite space, eternal time and perpetual matter." Private letter to Tarin, November 29, 2010

I remember a similar profound disorientation (for a short period of time) after allowing to fully understand and experience the temporal infinitude of the universe.

So, lots of adventures and discoveries are still to come after becoming newly free." - Soh, 2019

“Now it’s very clear that the whole universe is the total exertion of all conditions in spatial and temporal infinitude.. each activity is the exertion of all the conditions in ten directions and three times.” - Soh, 2019

“There are few conditions to experience maha as a ground [state] (Soh: means effortlessly experienced in all situations as always already so)

1. Mature in non-dual experience

2. DO (dependent origination)

3.  Experience and understand that 'interconnectedness' is the universe itself

Then 'self' and even non dual becomes quite irrelevant. In fact now presence is not understand as non-dual to me, but as dependent origination, where non-dual is already included” - John Tan, 2009

If Maha Total Exertion (+A) has become a ground state, effortlessly so and clear, you have to ask yourself is the taste of -A present? Or as John Tan asked, “Do you know what does landing without dust mean? 落地无尘,踏雪无痕 (falling to the floor without dust [accumulating], stepping on snow without leaving trails)”

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Picture: Hawaii

Just now while jogging.. while looking at the trees I suddenly recalled some of my peak experiences of PCE (Pure Consciousness Experience) many years ago, even before anatta was realized in 2010.. (although anatta realization was a crucial key that made this all effortless and natural) the wow factor that arise from the marveling at the wondrous and magical quality of everything and it occurred to me that the wondrous and magical quality is very much present as every vivid actuality of all forms even now except without the aspect of astonishment as it has become a natural quality of experience. It is all so naturally magical, marvelous, and wondrous like I am literally living in a paradise, but without any 'fireworks' or sense that some special event is happening. It is an all-encompassing (and non-metaphysical/non-ontological/non-subjective) Pristine/Pure Awareness completely devoid of a center or boundary, devoid of a self/Self/agent/perceiver/doer/be-er radiating as none other than the very textures and colors and sounds and sensations from moment to moment. The actuality of everything, trees, sky, ground, people, things and events, are revealed in each moment as magical, wonderful, marvelous, alive and vivid beyond description as in being magical and wondrous like actually living in a fairy-tale like paradise without the slightest trace of a self/Self, agent, doer, be-er, being, or the slightest division of a subject and object. Everything (colors/smells/sounds/sensations/touch/thoughts) has a sparkling intensity and brilliance of aliveness that simply stands out.

People not familiar might on first glance think I am describing some special altered state of consciousness unnaturally induced through the ingestion of a psychedelic drug or through some intensive meditative or yogic technique, but I can assure you this is now my everyday and every moment sober, natural, spontaneous and effortless state of experience.

This aspect of a PCE or an Actual Freedom is quite well described by the Actual Freedom teachings (which I have been revisiting recently while helping to write the Awakening to Reality guide), except I would not make ontological statements about the physical universe as I do not have notions of inherent existence with regards to a physical universe out there. The infinitude (boundlessness) of the universe participating in this very spontaneous breathing and activity is experientially actualized as a state of total exertion, with no sense of solidity or inherency involved, therefore I am free from any such views as rejected by the Buddha in the Culamalunkya Sutta as I do not make ontological assertions of some eternal and infinite universe that inherently exists out there, nor is there the slightest sense that a soul exists at all.

Then it also occurred to me that those very familiar with anatta shouldn’t be unfamiliar with total exertion and conditionality (though the view aspect of dependent origination seems missing in teachings like AF), for there is thoroughgoing and cosmic relativity (as in a completely seamless activity that is conventionally expressed as relative origination) in anatta without the slightest trace of an Absolute. It is in this sense of total exertion and thoroughgoing relativity and exertion where the entire universe is participating in every single activity including jogging and breathing, that teachings like Hua-Yen makes sense, however I have to say that I do not have the slightest trace of a metaphysical reality, a noumenon, a Being or a framework of that sort in my consciousness, as my state of consciousness is constantly completely devoid of a self or a Self. And this is why when writings surface recently about noumenon/phenomenon, being, etc, I have to say, those terms resonate with my earlier stages of realisation but my current state is nothing of that kind, there is nothing like that in anatta.

A thought did cross my mind just now -- if Actual Freedom's Richard reads Zen Master Dogen's teachings, he might find some of them resonating, but I did not find any reference to Zen Master Dogen's works in Actual Freedom's website. E.g. , also among many things Soto Zen (Dogen’s lineage teachers) teachers write, Shinshu Roberts wrote the following, “Since our activity is not a progression from delusion to enlightenment made solely by the independent self, Dogen defines the first thought of practice as 'immediate present ultimate Dharma' or genjokoan: the presence and perfection of all dharmas as they are in the here-and-now.' 

Hee-Jin Kim further explains the meaning of genjokoan: 'It does not suggest an evolutionary ascent from hidden-ness to manifestation, or from imperfection to perfection, or conversely, an emanational descent from one to many, or from reality to appearance. Rather, things, events, beings are already unmistakably what they truly are; what is more, they are vibrant, transparent, and bright in their as-they-are-ness.'”

This state of consciousness is devoid of affective emotional imposition on the purity and perfection of the experience. Everything is clean, perfect, wonderful, marvelous and alive, without the additional layer of obscurity that consists of the solidifying of a self/Self with its incumbent habitual (or what Richard calls "instinctual") affective reactions, emotional reactions. For example just now while listening to the baby crying, the crying is incredibly "actual" just as the trees and rivers and buildings are "actual" - not in the sense that they are felt as solid, physical and inherently existing, but "actual" in the sense of vividly manifesting in a completely "pristine" and "unsullied" state, the complete actuality of sound unobscured by any trace of emotional or mental reactions, in actual fact completely unsullied by the slightest trace of subjectivity -- only the crying just as it is, vividly heard, with no self/Self or passions or aversions whatsoever.

And this is how the teachings of Buddha in Bahiya Sutta, and its related Malunkyaputta Sutta leads to complete liberation --

"Then, Malunkyaputta, with regard to phenomena to be seen, heard, sensed, or cognized: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Malunkyaputta, there is no you in connection with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."

"Knowing an idea — mindfulness lapsed — attending to the theme of 'endearing,' impassioned in mind, one feels and remains fastened there. One's feelings, born of the idea, grow numerous, Greed & annoyance injure one's mind. Thus amassing stress, one is said to be far from Unbinding. Not impassioned with forms — seeing a form with mindfulness firm — dispassioned in mind, one knows and doesn't remain fastened there. While one is seeing a form — and even experiencing feeling — it falls away and doesn't accumulate. Thus one fares mindfully. Thus not amassing stress, one is said to be in the presence of Unbinding."

As a sidenote, I am very blissful these days (not the sort of 'emotional' bliss that is contaminated by self/Self, but always a radiant joyfulness springing up spontaneously as a natural ongoing delightfulness of no-self/no-Self, happy and delightful and smiling very often), today even more so.



Some of my descriptions from related discussions:

"Strong and vivid radiance.. 

Even now the smell of food is standing out in intensity

...[sights have a] HD hypervivid quality...

...Actually more accurate description is magical and marvellous colors (as in the vivid 'textures' of what's called trees, sky, houses, people, streets, etc), sounds (as in the vivid 'textures' of a bird chirping, sound of traffic, etc), scents (as in the aromas of food, and plants, etc), etc. Complete perfection with a stark intensity...

Yet feels completely natural. Without slightest sense of distance or self/Self, even the tiniest details becomes starkly clear

This sense of perfection and magical radiance of everything is still there even when I'm physically tired and lack sleep on the previous night

By magical what I mean is a sense that there’s something very magnificent, almost like beauty but it is not beauty vs ugly and is not at all a subjectively imposed or affective feeling of beauty, but a sense of perfection.. like I look at the fly crawling on my skin, the fly is so completely perfect, like part of the paradise (note: this is different from Thusness's usage of the term 'magical')

Like a ball of radiance, except radiance as none other than the boundless world of forms, colors, textures and sounds, that is the very radiance, for it is the world that is the radiance and nothing else. Not a subjective radiance standing apart from forms.

There is nothing subjectively imposed here.. when I say “sense of perfection” that is already not quite accurate as it conveys some subjectively imposed interpretation of perfection.. rather it is the world that is the perfection and each moment carries the flavor of perfection

Perfection being merely a qualitative description of the pristine state of consciousness/radiant forms, not an affective feeling of "it is perfect" but neither is it an objective characteristic of some inherently existing object (there is neither subject nor object as subject and object is conceptual)

But this state of consciousness is not just heightened clarity... it’s like even the trees swaying is marvelously and magically alive and life reveals its significance and meaning all around. I think this is what Richard calls “meaning of life”.

The emotional model of AF makes some sense"


Driving around Singapore, it feels like I am experiencing Singapore for the first time. 


I would also just like to add that this luminosity has always been experienced since anatta 8 years back and as glimpses even before anatta realization, but it's getting more intense after a few events these days. Or as John Tan (Thusness) suggest, some overcoming of the center. He told me he actually expected that I'll experience this a long time ago, but I was late by 2 years from his expectation


[9:40 PM, 3/29/2019] Soh Wei Yu: Now I’m walking.. absolutely no self /Self/agency at all.. and the pce [i.e. the vivid radiance of anatta that 'makes' everything like a wondrous paradise is now my unbroken state] is still there as before but the main characteristic that stands out now is not the radiance but the walking is just infinitude of the universe as the seamless activity.. in the absence of an agent/self/Self there is just this
[9:42 PM, 3/29/2019] Soh Wei Yu: [And also the experience comes with a] Very still mind.. except when writing this
[9:42 PM, 3/29/2019] John Tan: Yes don't focus, relax and be light. No self, no center. Don't over do. Learn a somatic technique.
[9:52 PM, 3/29/2019] Soh Wei Yu: yea this cosmic sense of centerless ness is different from focused kind of pce.. it’s like pce is already natural here and makes no sense to focus more.. the cosmic sense of Maha does not require focusing but complete opening without self/Self/agent... it created no tension in my head at all
[9:55 PM, 3/29/2019] John Tan: Yes
[9:57 PM, 3/29/2019] John Tan: Just centerless and without background, light and immense. No focus no concentration. Natural and free.
[9:57 PM, 3/29/2019] John Tan: And master a somatic technique to release ur body and any form of energy imbalance.


“Arthur Deller not that it needs a name but that’s what I call interpenetration. What is so beautiful about this is that, like other realization “stages” or fundamental shifts in experiential insight, it is seen to be more primary, natural and spontaneous than what came before. Before meaning sense gates as separate from one another even if explored directly and non conceptually as pristine, complete, self releasing phenomena. As this interpenetration becomes more and more “just the way it is” it also becomes more intuitively clear that it is uncaused, free and spontaneous. Here a great relaxation is possible. Practice of vigilance gives way to immersion and unfettered enjoyment, but without contraction. That last part is important. Before a thorough examination of the vivid, all encompassing, no-remainder nature of each sense gate (including consciousness), what we think of relaxation is still intertwined with subtle avoidance mechanisms. So then relaxation is related to personal will more than a natural expression of harmonization with the flow of phenomonality (no-gap).” - Angelo Gerangelo


[8/4/19, 7:19:55 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Btw the other day I was investigating fear.. then I saw how fear is tied to the sense of self that feels like its existence needs to be protected.. but upon investigating that sense of self is completely seen to be a complete delusional fabrication without basis and then released. It seems to improve my fearlessness... ...Also just now I see that everything is total exertion.. even looking at the patch of grass is the body mind universe in total exertion.. so the infinitude should be tasted as a natural state in each moment
[9/4/19, 7:25:01 AM] John Tan: Yes contemplation is a good practice but more importantly is to arise the willinglessness to let go.  Not through analysis alone but recognition of the energetic pattern of attachment.

Actually anatta itself is sufficient to dissolve fear,  just how deep the insight goes.  Ignorance manifests as attachment but it is difficult to uproot as seeing through is only at the surface compare to the aeon lives of attachments and we constantly re-enforce such view.  Wrong view and attachments beget each other and one attachment leads to another endlessly.  The "willingness" that let go must arise to directly feel the afflictive chain as a form of energetic pattern, analysis itself is insufficient.
[9/4/19, 8:02:54 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[10/4/19, 3:28:33 PM] Soh Wei Yu: I looked down from tall building over railing.. not much fear.. maybe initially a slight body sensation but nothing like before.. maybe if someone push me I might.. stopped looking after people come out of bunk and I don’t want to look funny 🤣

[10/4/19, 3:29:37 PM] Soh Wei Yu: I like to just stand there looking at the scenery... stillness, boundlessness, trees and horizon


“I” am my emotions and fears and the emotions and fears are “me” in the same way that the aggregates are collated into a Self by imputation.. even as there is no agent for any arising including the sense of self which occurs by dependent arising.

The sense of self and emotions and fears as a protective mechanism is not necessary for the optimum functioning of life.. it has served its purpose. Seeing this there is another level of release which seems like a veil has lifted.. there is now a stillness

There is a sense of deep stillness that is the character of the universe.. even as activities, sounds, people walking and everything is happening, everything feels very still. Amidst the centerlessness and boundlessness there is a stillness.. both in the sense of silence and the sense that there is no sense of movement.

Just sitting on the bed... seeing the ceiling, the link door, the fan whirling sound... all these simple things are delightful without any other entertainments. And even seeing the fan is inseparable with the total exertion of my breathing.. the movement of the diaphragm, my eyes, the fan, the wind blowing...


Senses are naturally heightened and everything takes on a depth and freshness like you never experienced before. Colors literally feels deeper and more vibrant, sounds and scents are felt with stark vividness, an energetic pulsation of sensation flows throughout the body, and you can’t help but be in a state of wonderment at the aliveness of the universe. That’s just the radiance aspect. There is also a complete absence of self/Self and only the forms and textures and fabric of the moment are the radiance, nothing else behind or besides as if experiencing things through a separative veil, that hallucinatory separative veil and background self/Self preventing a complete gaplessness and directness and immediacy of the experience of actual that is conventionally called “people, things and events” is realised to be completely delusory and extinguished. Without that hallucinatory veil, the other person you meet, the sun in the distance is seen and experienced to be no more distant than your heartbeat. For no longer do you see yourself as the seer of scenery, in seeing there is just radiant colors, in sensing just sensations without a sensor. This absence of distance and separation is called “actual intimacy” by Richard but a better term would be gaplessness as there is simply no one to “be intimate with” another, there is only another - the actuality of “people, things and events”.

The sense of a self that feels like its existence needs to be protected or feels threatened and fearful or distressed and any other manners of emotional affliction is also seen to be a complete phantasm, a delusional construct without the slightest existence in actuality and thus extinguished, leaving the perfection and purity of the actual and the trees and nature appears as a paradisiacal wonderland full of neverending gladness and delight. You smile more. There is a complete absence of grim and glum in the “actual”, only bright, joyful radiance and peace.

The radiance that is the very forms is always already so but the separative veil and identity prevents the full blossoming of the radiance and infinitude of the universe. This delusional veil of identity dulls out perception of life. It literally dulls our experience in the opposite way that psychedelics heightens it or tunes it up (albeit only temporarily - but once identity is completely relinquished this non-separative heightened perception of life becomes permanent).

This separative veil and identity must be completely seen through as a delusion and completely extinguished without a trace for the permanent actualization of the gapless and direct radiance of the actual and the infinitude of total exertion. In the infinitude of the universe, everything you see and experience is centerless and boundless, even the words on the screen is the exertion of the ten directions and three times (limitless space and limitless time), and yet the universe is at a standstill, a complete stillness or lack of continuity of something or 'myself' over time.

This separative veil and identity is precisely what must be “cleansed” from the “doors of perception” that prevents us from the direct living of the magical wonderland of the actual, such as William Blake have said,

“If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.”


"I’m now at the park.. the infinitude, aliveness, perfection of everything is strong.. but no tenseness. There is the experience that this body and every body and everything is the expression of the infinitude of the universe.. like I am the same stuff as everything, but I do not have the slightest sense of being a universal consciousness [there is no trace of metaphysicality or subjectivity here]. Neither do I reify some solid physical universe existing out there.. it’s just that the experience is like that

There is much joy and wonder.. my eyes are open wide.

The experience is like richard says, I am the infinite universe experiencing itself as this sensate and reflective body mind

Actually to say the experience is like this is wrong.. as if it implies subjectivity.. to say it is a physical universe out there is wrong.. to say it is universal consciousness is wrong.. yet it is experienced as cosmic exertion

Everything is seamlessly connected.. and interpenetrating. And the seamless infinitude of the universe does not take away the awareness of specific causalities, like I clearly know when an ant is biting my legs, that the pain is linked to the ant biting.

There is no effort at all in this state.. no concentration at all.. in fact concentration will probably spoil the natural boundless perfection

I think I do feel light as feather and immense as universe..."


"Sorry I didn’t look into your previous mail, lots of things have been happening to my life lately and something happened to my practice lately that resembles some of the things on the AF site. There is/was the intense actualization of the previous realization (I've had this realization of anatta for 8+ years with varying degrees or intensity in experience since then) of the radiance that is none other than the textures and details of infinite world (which makes the world a paradisiacal wonderland of incredible aliveness and in that sense resembles a constant trip on a psychedelic drug like LSD despite being completely sober, the colors literally look brighter and deeper, the scents and sounds and tactile sensations all becomes intensified and experienced differently - it felt like my brain, body and state of consciousness underwent a form of mutation and transformation) and there is/was an ongoing surge of super-active energy-sensation running through the body (which has by now mellowed a little but not completely gone and I feel this is what makes me more awake and energized in the day), and the state of consciousness was/is so incredibly intense and blissful. 

However, at one point an energy imbalance developed (and I think it was partly due to my wrong way of practicing, my overfocusing on the details of the world in PCE created a rather tense energy), a stuck energy in the head and third eye chakra that caused headaches, affected my state of consciousness and thought process (I can hardly focus on work during that time, I was just lucky I didn’t have a very busy schedule at work back then), made me barely able to work and function and sleepless (at the peak of the imbalance at least for one day I could not sleep at all - my body laid on the bed while the mind was awake) and then on the last day I actually spent half an hour in the office toilet to calm my energies with the nausea which was hard to bear and on that day I entered a half-awake trance like state and had flashes of figures (like two brief one-second flashes of hallucination - one of a witch-looking woman wearing black and one of an alien-looking man with big eyes) and on a separate occasion (not tied to or caused by the hallucination - the brief flashes of images caused no fear in me) a brief one second flash of bodily sensations that seemed like fear caused by (or rather, is none other than a brief outburst of) the agitation of stuck energy but without any mental story or emotional content. I intuitively stood up and walked around, as soon as I stood up it subsided. But nonetheless it did cast doubt on my having overcome fear, but a further insight some days later seemed to do further damage to the sense of self involved in fear. Also, during that day I entered the world of sound where music took on a new depth while relaxing with music, but I quickly snapped out of it as I knew any focusing on sound will agitate my energies further. After these unpleasant experiences I thought to myself that I needed my family members to drive me home from work that day as I did not think it will be safe for me to operate a vehicle with my condition then. Fortunately by 5pm+ the tense energy in my head and chest suddenly lifted and my mind went back to normal. It has been solved since then (it’s been about 2~3 weeks already), no more headaches, stuck and tense energy, trouble falling asleep, brain fog, etc. I was very wary of consuming caffeine (I avoided all coffee, tea, and chocolates) then as even a cup of tea was able to trigger another episode of a shift of consciousness and energy that sort of resembles the over-excited energy even about 1~2 weeks ago, but by now I am able to enjoy a cup of coffee without too much issues. 

I was reminded of Richard’s 2 years period of mental agony and ‘brain excitation’ and U.G. Krishnamurti’s ‘calamity’ that he said was a mental torture which lasted 3 years. Fortunately that only lasted like a week or so and I am so glad to have solved that rather quickly (instead of years) with the advise of Thusness who seems to have gone through all these, he basically taught me to relax, completely stop any thinking or contemplating (including but not limited to any issues pertaining to self/no-self/actual/radiance/universe/etc) as it has been my experience too that any thinking simply agitates my energies further at that point, stop focusing in a contrived manner, stop focusing on radiance and simply concentrate on somatic practice and rooting to the earth, bringing the energy into the abdomen and ground. That helped. (For a somewhat related energy practice, see John Tan had also informed me that the energy imbalance could have been far worse had I not nipped it in the bud.

Now all the good things remain without the energy imbalance stuff, like the full glory of PCE and the infinitude of the universe (without any need for focusing or effort - the centerless, boundlessness and infinitude of the universe is simply spontaneously present and living this 'flesh and blood body') where the field of consciousness is very naturally, unconstricted by the sense of a center, the vast infinite expanse (centerless, boundless) of the universe without the slightest trace of self/Self in which this body and everybody and everything is the expression of/with, a total exertion with the whole universe, including lessened sleep (right after I overcome the energy imbalance: 4-5 hours, now [2 to 3 weeks later] 5-6 hours, but in the past I can sleep anywhere from 7 to 10 hours plus naps in the afternoon if I'm free) but have no trouble falling asleep at all, and I feel much more energised with that lessened amount of sleep than when I was waking up with the help of alarm clocks with 7 hours of sleep everyday back then. John Tan (Thusness) himself sleeps only 4 to 5 hours everyday and has told me 10+ years ago that at some point my sleep will lessen and I will undergo a bodily transformation and become beaming with clarity and energy (the details of what he described was identical to what I have underwent recently), and recently he said he has been expecting that I would experience what I've been experiencing recently but I was behind his expected schedule by 2 years. I see the lessened need for sleep as a positive development for me, as that means I have more time to spend on other things. 

This intense apperception has been ongoing in an unbroken way for a month or more, though there has been a gradual building up for months until a triggering event about a month back when I was contemplating on a PCE that made it go off the roof. The constant mode of heightened apperception seems to lessen or blocks out my ability to visualise and imagine. When closing eyes the state of consciousness is still apperception where only the vivid actuality of blackness is present along with whatever visual (non-imagined) colors imprinted due to lighting. Daydreaming seems gone or almost (if I relax I can still get a few wandering thoughts but that’s it, I cannot really enter into a state of daydreaming) whereas I used to enjoy daydreaming especially when younger, yet I do not think I have 'no imagination capacity' (I can still get a faint semblance of an image I used to be able to conjure up with considerably more effort, it doesn’t come as naturally or easily as before). 

Dreams seems to have changed or is changing, I think I am dreaming less, with perhaps less visual content than before (I do not recall much visual contents, however I can't be sure if they completely lack that aspect). The last vivid dream with full on imagery was 1+ months back - I dreamt I was in a lift and that lift failed, I went into a free-fall from the 10th floor to the 1st and I thought I was going to die but I experienced 0 fear, anxiety, tenseness, emotions at all. Emotions now seem to have reduced a lot or changed and it is tempting at times to think "this is it, I'm free from affective emotions" but I still hesitate to make claims about being free from affective emotions as I think I will need more time to observe the changes - IMO the only way to get a good gauge of any changes is through time-testing in challenging conditions and utter sincerity (many have dropped claims later on, I would rather not make a claim to have them dropped later, making some claims to finality is not necessary to me). I am not too concerned whether I am there or I am not there, what matters more is the ongoing moment-to-moment actualization of freedom and peace, and if anything that hinders freedom arises, then they too can be investigated and dissolved or released with practice. And despite whatever breakthroughs we have in practice, life goes on - there are still so many things to be learnt and experienced in life, our new insights and state of consciousness continues to be integrated in various ways, and so on. It's not some be-all-end-all event in life that marks the end of any further developments down the road. If anything, perhaps it marks a new beginning in life, where life starts to be lived in an ever-fresh and pristine manner.

But the best thing in terms of affect so far is that the constant apperception is such a joyful, clean, pristine state of appreciating the boundless and radiant world that there isn't room for unpleasant emotions like sadness, boredom, depression, etc. There is certainly no more "Monday blues" or any kind of "blues" at all. It make sense now in my experience when Richard says his days are one perfect day after another. Even lying on bed, looking at the ceiling, the sound of the humming and background noises is joyful. Any added entertainment on top of that perfection is just another addition on top of perfection."


This state of apperception is effortlessly and naturally present from the very moment I wake up to the moment I sleep, for example when I wake up sometimes a sound is heard and I do not even know where I am (the body is lying on the bed but the mind hasn't cognized that on the very first moment of waking up) in contrast to the bird chirping or the fan humming as there is simply no 'I' to be located anywhere, there is only everything everywhere... it is almost as if I am at the sound of the bird chirping except there is no 'I' to 'be at' or 'be one with' the sound, there is only sound. The reflection of the orange rising sun over the window in the next building shines as vivid radiance with flawless perfection... the radiant energies courses through the body, energising and vitalising my day. All these informs me that it's going to be yet another perfect day in paradise even before I open my eyes. When driving, when walking, overlooking the long stretch of road over the horizon, there is no center, no reference-point, no center-of-reference, and no circumference... the whole universe is walking, is the walking, is the driving, where the movement of legs is not done or perceived by an 'I' (there is no doer, thinker, feeler, watcher, cognizer, being/Being whatsoever, only action) and this body is walking inseparably from the entire universe, it is not the case that there is a body here and a separate universe out there in which the body moves through.

Another thing I think AF is good at pointing out is that the slightest emotional affliction and feeling tone is tied to sense of self (thus the term “feeling being”) and obscures the purity and perfection of the pristine apperceptive awareness of mere forms, colors, sounds, etc. It can be noticed to have a palpable shift even though both feeling tone mode and non feeling tone mode may already be free of duality after realization. Got a better understanding of this point this year from experience

The very clean, luminous, free, uncontaminated perfection and purity of sensate display without any trace of self/Self and even emotions is now my default state.

The difference is a palpable shift from experience through a subtle feeling tone to completely selfless purity of the luminosity of the vivid silvery colors called table, spoon, and so on.. completely devoid of any sense of self/Self and feelings.

But it is important IMO to breakthrough by insight and realization of anatta first. The rest will follow naturally.”

“Certain descriptions of PCE (Pure Consciousness Experience) and Actualism are now a very, very close, identical or almost identical description to what I am experiencing intensely on a constant and unbroken basis for the past 1+ month (Update 9 months later: yep, still so, in fact even better now). However, as the Actualists experience an inherently existing, solid and physical universe, it is not completely identical to what I experience, although on the aspect of anatta and total exertion there are similarities. However as Vineeto [an actually free individual] informed me, ‘it is my direct experience that trees and rivers and buildings … and birds and clouds and the entire physical universe are solid, physical and inherently existing.’

For me the world like a car, a car cannot be found to exist as any particular parts (windscreen/engine/doors/etc designated in isolation or separated from each other cannot be asserted as a car on their own), functions (such as driving), and conditions involved in the driving, nor does a car exist in and of itself something apart from those parts, functions and conditions, but depend on these parts and functions and conditions there is the valid convention ‘car’, that ‘car’ is merely imputed in dependence. Therefore the ‘car’ does not ‘inherently exist in and of itself’ as a soul-like essence to be found as a ‘thing’ somewhere, but is imputed in dependence, yet I am not asserting non-existence. Likewise to anything else in the universe. What is experienced in PCE (or what appears to me similar to PCE) to me does not inherently exist with a soul-like substance to be found anywhere, yet is vividly clear, alive, and not in any way subjective (I do not subsume them into a universal subjectivity or consciousness).

I do not experience an inherently existing physical universe, nor do I experience an inherently existing awareness/Self/Brahman. I experience a fourth alternative (to the normal, spiritual/metaphysical, physical). My direct experience is without a who, where, or when, and yet there is not just blankness or nothing. I think spontaneous presencing is a good term. That spontaneous and seamless presencing is not generated by a self/Self and yet is not ‘inherently there in and of itself’, rather it is spontaneously presencing via total exertion (conventionally expressed as dependent origination or conditionality), empty and luminous. It is not some self-existing metaphysical presence, Absolute or Being, nor is spontaneous presencing a formless entity - whatever arises is spontaneous presencing, always seen, heard, tasted and experienced. What that is not seen, not heard and not experienced, is merely our conceptual idea of what “Presence” is. Neither is spontaneous presencing an inherently existing universe, nor is spontaneous presence manifesting causelessly/randomly/by chance, rather that spontaneous presencing is none other than the Maha (great/boundless) total exertion of the seamless conditions of the three times and ten directions, however it is not a linear causality where cause and effect are strictly separate with an actor (cause) and acted-upon (effect). As Dogen said, “Cause is not before and effect is not after.” and John Tan wrote in 2013, “Do you feel being caused or effected? It is just a single flow. Now when we see one, the 10000 things arise”. You can say what I experience (there is no ‘I’) is a spontaneous presencing that is none other than a seamlessly interdependent, radiant and empty universe.



AP to Soh Wei Yu I still don't understand. If you are a materialist, you believe that what you experience is brain signals. You never encounter the physical world itself -- it is an inference and never a direct perception. Why would one ever be certain that an inference is "more real than real"? On the other hand, this "sheer fact of experience" is NOT an inference. It is directly experienced (even if it is unoriginated). In this way, the two cannot be at comparable levels of delusion -- unless you're saying that after anatta, experience itself ceases (which would be surprising).

Half of me wants to believe there's something you're saying that I'm just not getting, and the other half thinks I still haven't explained myself clearly enough.

· Reply · a day ago1d · Edited

Soh Wei Yu
Soh Wei Yu to AP

That is not how actual freedom understands things.

They say again and again they directly experience the actual facticity of the physical universe. Since the physical universe is directly experienced to be real for them and in fact the sole ultimate reality, it isn’t a stretch to say consciousness is simply the physical universe, or brains, in action.

Just like the Hindus say they directly experience themselves to be an inherently existing metaphysical essence. They do not say that metaphysical essence is an inference.

· Reply · a day ago1d · Edited

Soh Wei Yu
Soh Wei Yu Vineeto [an actually free individual] informed me, ‘it is my direct experience that trees and rivers and buildings … and birds and clouds and the entire physical universe are solid, physical and inherently existing.’

· Reply · a day ago1d

Soh Wei Yu
Soh Wei Yu Their sheer facticity of luminosity, the brightness, vividness, of forms and sounds and so on are seen to be intrinsic properties of the “actual world”.

· Reply · a day ago1d · Edited

Soh Wei Yu
Soh Wei Yu Have you ever experienced a PCE?

· Reply · a day ago1d

AP to Soh Wei Yu I don't think I have experienced PCE.

· Reply · a day ago1d

AP But if I believed in an inherent physical reality, then I would be forced to admit that what I'm experiencing is my own brain's energy, and not physical reality directly, right?

· Reply · a day ago1d · Edited

Soh Wei Yu
Soh Wei Yu to AP

Ah ok. Maybe one day if you experience it you will see what it means to directly encounter the world.

This mode of perception is nothing wrong just like I AM is nothing wrong, the view just needs to be refined to reveal the true nature of both modes

· Reply · a day ago1d · Edited

AP to Soh Wei Yu I still don't see why. Are you saying that AF does NOT believe that their brains cause their experience? Because if they do believe that (and earlier I think we said they do -- it is an epiphenomenon), then they have already clearly admitted that their contact with physical reality is not "direct" but indirect.

· Reply · a day ago1d · Edited

AP They can only be saying "I directly experience this luminosity, and it makes me feel absolutely certain that it's being caused by a real physical world." They have not introspected on where this feeling of absolute certainty comes from, and this greatly surprises me.

This is very different from someone who says only "I directly experience this luminosity" and refuses to attribute anything more to it (other than perhaps "reality," which is a relatively much milder inference even if it's also wrong).

· Reply · a day ago1d · Edited

Soh Wei Yu
Soh Wei Yu You can't understand this way. You have to see from the perspective of their insight and experience. What is it like? It is the complete deconstruction and dissolution of subjectivity in terms of experience and insight. Of the sense of being/Being. Of the sense of a feeler, thinker, perceiver, agent, and so on. Of the sense of an egoic self, and even a metaphysical, ultimate Self.

When those are thoroughly seen through and dissolved, what's experienced? That there is only the actualness and aliveness of pure objectivity, the mere field of happening. Complete directness, complete gaplessness, to the point of the absoluteness of the field of objectivity that is the infinitude of the universe. There is no you being in contact with the world, it is just the radiant world revealing itself to itself. No you at all. And pure (as in uncontaminated by self/Self) consciousness is just this vivid happening, the universe experiencing itself as apperceptive consciousness. Consciousness is clearly seen and experienced as being free of self or a Self.

Note that the realization and experience of anatta means all sense of subjectivity is seen as an illusion and dissolved. Then one has direct contact of mere sights, sounds, sensations, smells, taste, thought, as vibrant and bright luminosity. Even to say 'contact' is wrong here, since there is no two things being in contact or intimacy with each other. There is simply the actual, luminous world, revealing itself to itself... as I said. Richard calls this 'actual intimacy', being intimate with a table, a tree, and so on. I say even intimacy is not clear enough as a term, John and I calls it gaplessness.

It is important that this 'luminosity' is directly realized and experienced as the very very vibrant and alive colors, sounds, sensations, themselves. There is no 'luminosity' other than those, for one who realised anatta. Luminosity is just these vivid obviousness and aliveness as mere manifestation. Objects literally seem bright, brilliant, intensified, more colorful, HD, even the tiniest details are revealed as wondrous radiance, but it is not just that -- it is the complete absence of an illuminator or self/Self behind these vivid illuminating 'stuff'. Sounds are very clear and resonant.. Scents becomes very very strong and perculiar... so on for all other senses including thoughts. It is this vividness and shining brightness that is the luminosity. In fact if you have not come to this point of realisation and actualization that the luminosity is the very stuff of the 'transience', you haven't realised anatta at all, at least in my definition and John Tan's definition. So it is good that at least Actual Freedom has come to this point. You clearly see and experience that the luminosity has no other source than the exertion of the infinite universe (field of objectivity), there being no background source, no subjectivity, that referent of a subject is seen to be an illusion. It is the mere happening, the mere stuff of the universe that they call 'actual world' or seen as an infinite field of objectivity, that is very vibrant, alive, literally luminous, radiant, bright, intense, sparkling, vivid, so on and so forth. When it is seen that a real subject is an illusion, would it be a stretch to say that consciousness is the infinitude of the universe exerting itself as brain in action?

If you no longer have the illusion that a subjective self/Self exists in any way, then would it be a stretch to then say or postulate that the brilliance is inherent to the objects?

In truth, there are no subjects and objects, no objects and intrinsic characteristics of objects for one who realizes emptiness. Sure, there is no awareness besides manifestation, a mere luminous happening, a mere occurrence. But manifestation is just like chariot, it is understood in terms of dependent origination and dependent designation, non-arisen. This part, AF Richard doesn't understand.

· Reply · 47 minutes ago47m · Edited

Soh Wei Yu
Soh Wei Yu

RICHARD: So as to circumvent coining new words I chose to make a distinct difference between the word ‘actual’ and the word ‘real’ (plus the word ‘fact’ and the word ‘true’) whereas the dictionaries do not: thus when I talk of the actual world, as contrasted to the real world, whilst both words refer to the physical world I am making a distinction in experience.

I usually put it this way: what one is (what not who) is these eyes seeing, these ears hearing, this tongue tasting, this skin touching and this nose smelling – and no separative identity (no ‘I’/‘me’) inside the body means no separation whatsoever – whereas ‘I’/‘me’, a psychological/psychic entity, am busily creating an inner world and an outer world and looking out through ‘my’ eyes upon ‘my’ outer world as if looking out through a window, listening to ‘my’ outer world through ‘my’ ears as if they were microphones, tasting ‘my’ outer world through ‘my’ tongue, touching ‘my’ outer world through ‘my’ skin and smelling ‘my’ outer world through ‘my’ nose.

This entity, or being, residing in the body is forever cut-off from the actual – from the world as-it-is – because its inner world reality is pasted as a veneer over the actual world, thus creating the outer world reality known as the real world, and experiences an affective intimacy (oneness, union, unity, wholeness) wherein the separation is bridged by love and compassion ... instead of an actual intimacy (direct, instant, immediate, absolute) where there is no separation whatsoever.

In other words, no separative identity in the first place means no division exists to be transcended.
Frequently Asked Questions – What is Actual Intimacy?
· Reply · Remove Preview · 39 minutes ago39m


Also, here are some quotations where I find some similarities between Zen Master Dogen and AF Richard's message (both talk and emphasize about total exertion/the infinitude of the universe being apperceptively aware as a flesh and blood body in their own ways) although I am not suggesting that their expressions are completely similar -

From Bendowa, by Zen Master Dogen

Question Ten:

Some have said: Do not concern yourself about birth-and-death. There is a way to promptly rid yourself of birth-and-death. It is by grasping the reason for the eternal immutability of the 'mind-nature.' The gist of it is this: although once the body is born it proceeds inevitably to death, the mind-nature never perishes. Once you can realize that the mind-nature, which does not transmigrate in birth-and-death, exists in your own body, you make it your fundamental nature. Hence the body, being only a temporary form, dies here and is reborn there without end, yet the mind is immutable, unchanging throughout past, present, and future. To know this is to be free from birth-and-death. By realizing this truth, you put a final end to the transmigratory cycle in which you have been turning. When your body dies, you enter the ocean of the original nature. When you return to your origin in this ocean, you become endowed with the wondrous virtue of the Buddha-patriarchs. But even if you are able to grasp this in your present life, because your present physical existence embodies erroneous karma from prior lives, you are not the same as the sages.

"Those who fail to grasp this truth are destined to turn forever in the cycle of birth-and-death. What is necessary, then, is simply to know without delay the meaning of the mind-nature's immutability. What can you expect to gain from idling your entire life away in purposeless sitting?"

What do you think of this statement? Is it essentially in accord with the Way of the Buddhas and patriarchs?

Answer 10:

You have just expounded the view of the Senika heresy. It is certainly not the Buddha Dharma.

According to this heresy, there is in the body a spiritual intelligence. As occasions arise this intelligence readily discriminates likes and dislikes and pros and cons, feels pain and irritation, and experiences suffering and pleasure - it is all owing to this spiritual intelligence. But when the body perishes, this spiritual intelligence separates from the body and is reborn in another place. While it seems to perish here, it has life elsewhere, and thus is immutable and imperishable. Such is the standpoint of the Senika heresy.

But to learn this view and try to pass it off as the Buddha Dharma is more foolish than clutching a piece of broken roof tile supposing it to be a golden jewel. Nothing could compare with such a foolish, lamentable delusion. Hui-chung of the T'ang dynasty warned strongly against it. Is it not senseless to take this false view - that the mind abides and the form perishes - and equate it to the wondrous Dharma of the Buddhas; to think, while thus creating the fundamental cause of birth-and-death, that you are freed from birth-and-death? How deplorable! Just know it for a false, non-Buddhist view, and do not lend a ear to it.

I am compelled by the nature of the matter, and more by a sense of compassion, to try to deliver you from this false view. You must know that the Buddha Dharma preaches as a matter of course that body and mind are one and the same, that the essence and the form are not two. This is understood both in India and in China, so there can be no doubt about it. Need I add that the Buddhist doctrine of immutability teaches that all things are immutable, without any differentiation between body and mind. The Buddhist teaching of mutability states that all things are mutable, without any differentiation between essence and form. In view of this, how can anyone state that the body perishes and the mind abides? It would be contrary to the true Dharma.

Beyond this, you must also come to fully realize that birth-and-death is in and of itself nirvana. Buddhism never speaks of nirvana apart from birth-and-death. Indeed, when someone thinks that the mind, apart from the body, is immutable, not only does he mistake it for Buddha-wisdom, which is free from birth-and-death, but the very mind that makes such a discrimination is not immutable, is in fact even then turning in birth-and-death. A hopeless situation, is it not?

You should ponder this deeply: since the Buddha Dharma has always maintained the oneness of body and mind, why, if the body is born and perishes, would the mind alone, separated from the body, not be born and die as well? If at one time body and mind were one, and at another time not one, the preaching of the Buddha would be empty and untrue. Moreover, in thinking that birth-and-death is something we should turn from, you make the mistake of rejecting the Buddha Dharma itself. You must guard against such thinking.

Understand that what Buddhists call the Buddhist doctrine of the mind-nature, the great and universal aspect encompassing all phenomena, embraces the entire universe, without differentiating between essence and form, or concerning itself with birth or death. There is nothing - enlightenment and nirvana included - that is not the mind-nature. All dharmas, the "myriad forms dense and close" of the universe - are alike in being this one Mind. All are included without exception. All those dharmas, which serves as "gates" or entrances to the Way, are the same as one Mind. For a Buddhist to preach that there is no disparity between these dharma-gates indicates that he understands the mind-nature.

In this one Dharma [one Mind], how could there be any differentiate between body and mind, any separation of birth-and-death and nirvana? We are all originally children of the Buddha, we should not listen to madmen who spout non-Buddhist views.


Mind is skin, flesh, bones and marrow. Mind is taking up a flower and smiling. There is having mind and having no mind... Blue, yellow, red, and white are mind. Long, short, square, and round are mind. The coming and going of birth and death are mind. Year, month, day, and hour are mind. The coming and going of birth and death are mind. Water, foam, splash, and flame are mind. Spring flowers and autumn moon are mind. All things that arise and fall away are mind.


‘Mind as mountains, rivers, and the earth is nothing other than mountains, rivers, and the earth. There are no additional waves or surf, no wind or smoke. Mind as the sun, the moon, and the stars is nothing other than the sun, the moon, and the stars.’

...According to Dogen, this “oceanic-body” does not contain the myriad forms, nor is it made up of myriad forms – it is the myriad forms themselves. The same instruction is provided at the beginning of Shobogenzo, Gabyo (pictured rice-cakes) where, he asserts that, “as all Buddhas are enlightenment” (sho, or honsho), so too, “all dharmas are enlightenment” which he says does not mean they are simply “one” nature or mind.
~ Ted Biringer

All Buddhas and all things cannot be reduced to a static entity or principle symbolized as one mind, one nature, or the like. This guards against views that devaluate the unique, irreplaceable individuality of a single dharma.
Hee-Jin Kim, Flowers of Emptiness, p.257

Zen teacher David Loy:

Dogen "misinterprets" some of the most famous Zen stories to give them a radically different meaning-often one diametrically opposed to the traditional understanding. In the Katto fascicle, for example, Dogen challenges the traditional view of Bodhidharma's dharma transmission to his four disciples Tao-fu, Tsung-chih, Tao-yu, and Hui-k'o. According to their different responses to his challenge, Bodhidharma says that they have attained his skin, flesh, bones, and marrow, respectively-the last because Hui-k'o demonstrates the highest attainment by saying nothing at all. So it is, at least according to the usual view that sees these four attainments as metaphors for progressively deeper stages of understanding, indicating a hierarchy of rank among the disciples. Dogen, however, repudiates this common view by adopting the absolute point of view:

We should know that the patriarch's saying "skin, flesh, bones, and marrow" has no bearing on shallowness or deepness.... The patriarch's body-mind is such that the skin, flesh, bones, and marrow are all equally the patriarch himself: the marrow is not the deepest, the skin is not shallowest.17

A Soto Zen (Dogen’s lineage) teacher Shinshu Roberts says:

"Immediate Present, Ultimate Dharma
Since our activity is not a progression from delusion to enlightenment made solely by the independent self, Dogen defines the first thought of practice as 'immediate present ultimate Dharma' or genjokoan: the presence and perfection of all dharmas as they are in the here-and-now.' Hee-Jin Kim further explains the meaning of genjokoan:

'It does not suggest an evolutionary ascent from hidden-ness to manifestation, or from imperfection to perfection, or conversely, an emanational descent from one to many, or from reality to appearance. Rather, things, events, beings are already unmistakably what they truly are; what is more, they are vibrant, transparent, and bright in their as-they-are-ness.'

…This would not be how Dogen would approach the practice of deep investigation or exhaustive penetration. He might be describe the activity of washing dishes as washing washes washing, thereby removing the subject-object relationship. Mindfulness may be a dharma gate to intimacy, but it is not the Zen practice of exhaustively penetrating the totality of one's experience. In the true intimacy of complete engagement there is no labeling of self or other that comes from paying attention to something outside the self….

Included in this intimate total immersion in the being-time of a particular moment is the simultaneous arising of all being-time. This nondualism is not separate from the relative or everyday. Washing dishes is not special. By entering the world of washing dishes, we enter the whole world, which is our world, by jumping in with wholehearted effort.

Do not aspire to great realization. Great realization is everyday tea and meals.

—Dogen Zenji, Shobogenzo Gyoji

Ted Biringer says:

While it may be contrary to the suggestions of many that claim to represent Zen or Dogen, true nature, according to the classic Zen records (including Shobogenzo) is ever and always immediately present, particular, and precise. Notions or assertions suggesting that Zen is somehow mysterious, ineffable, or inexpressible are simply off the mark. The only place such terms can be accurately applied in Zen is to definite mysteries, particular unknowns, and specific inexpressible experiences. Indeed, in Zen, the terms definite, particular, and specific accurately characterize all dharmas. Dogen’s refrain, ‘Nothing in the whole universe is concealed’ means exactly what it says; no reality is the least bit obscure or vague. To emphasize this truth, the assertion that ‘real form is all dharmas’ runs like a mantra throughout Shobogenzo, for example:

“The realization of the Buddhist patriarchs is perfectly realized real form. Real form is all dharmas. All dharmas are forms as they are, natures as they are, body as it is, the mind as it is, the world as it is, clouds and rain as they are, walking, standing, sitting, and lying down, as they are; sorrow and joy, movement and stillness, as they are; a staff and a whisk, as they are; a twirling flower and a smiling face, as they are; succession of the Dharma and affirmation, as they are; learning in practice and pursuing the truth, as they are; the constancy of pines and the integrity of bamboos, as they are. Shobogenzo, Shoho-Jisso[199]”

In light of Shobogenzo’s (hence Zen’s) vision of existence-time (uji), existence (ontology; being) and time are not-two (nondual); dharmas are not simply existents in time, they are existents of time, and (all) time is in and of existents (i.e. dharmas). In short, dharmas do not exist independent of time, and time does not exist independent of dharmas. On a corollary note, since (all) existence demonstrates the quality of ‘impermanence,’ time too is impermanent. In Zen the nonduality of impermanence and time is treated in terms of ‘ceaseless advance’ or ‘ever passing’ – ‘ceaseless’ and ‘ever’ connoting ‘permanence’ or ‘eternity,’
‘advance’ and ‘passing’ indicating ‘impermanence’ or ‘temporal’ (temporary). Accordingly, ‘impermanence’ is ‘permanent’ and ‘change’ is ‘changeless’ – existence-time ever-always (eternally) advances (changes).[92] Dogen’s vision of reality exploits the significance of this to the utmost, unfolding its most profound implications with his notion of ‘the self-obstruction of a single dharma’ or ‘the total exertion of a single dharma’ (ippo gujin). This notion reveals a number of important implications concerning the nature of existence-time; two of which are: Each and all dharmas reveal, disclose, or present the whole universe (the totality of existence-time). Each and all dharmas are inherently infinite and eternal.

Biringer, Ted. Zen Cosmology: Dogen's Contribution to the Search for a New Worldview (p. 34). ZazensatioN. Kindle Edition. 

The point to get is that, in Zen, it is not dharmas in general but particular dharmas that are recognized as the fundamental elements, or better

Biringer, Ted. Zen Cosmology: Dogen's Contribution to the Search for a New Worldview (p. 95). ZazensatioN. Kindle Edition. 

“To carry yourself forward
and experience myriad things is delusion.
That myriad things come forth
and experience themselves is awakening.” 
- Dogen (Genjokoan)

“In mustering the whole body and mind and seeing forms, 
in mustering the whole body and mind 
and hearing sounds, 
they are intimately perceived; 
but it is not like the reflection in a mirror, 
nor like the moon in the water. 
When one side is realized the other side is dark.”
Dogen (Genjokoan, commentary in Flowers Fall)

From a Zen teacher of Soto zen (Dogen’s lineage)

Master Dogen describes Zazen as dropping off body and mind. That is, dropping off this sense of a me and things that belong to me. It is his way of describing anatta.

He doesn’t say that dropping off body and mind is a preliminary to the real activity of Zazen, but that Zazen is the continuous dropping off of body and mind. The activity of Zazen is this continuous activity of dropping off. It is an activity, not a state. It is an orientation, not an attribute.

He also says, although he attributes this to his teacher, Nyojo, that when body and mind are dropped off, we are free of the five desires and the five hindrances. The five desires correspond to the desires of the sense organs. The five hindrances are desire, ill-will, laziness, restlessness and doubt. If we think that practice is the vehicle for our own aggrandisement, we are full of these hindrances. But if there is no me and nothing belonging to me then where can these hindrances attach? Hence, Zazen is the dharma gate of ease and joy.


From the same site:

Master Dogen described our practice of shikantaza as dropping off body and mind. 

The Japanese which is rendered as 'dropping off' has two aspects. One is intentional, as we might drop off an article of clothing. The other is natural, like leaves falling in Autumn.

Dropping off mind, means dropping off that dualism between mind and world, and which is often prominent, although unacknowledged, in meditation.

So we don't think, "I must make my mind clear, my thoughts are an encumbrance to that". But rather, thoughts are just one more thing going on within unbroken experience, where there is not inner and outer, me and not-me.

And likewise dropping off body, we don't think "My body is experiencing these sensations and emotions", but rather, there is just this experiencing, which includes everything.

We can drop off Mind, in the sense that we can relocate the mind within the body, but we need to drop off both, otherwise the dualism remains.

So dropping off body and mind is, as it were, sitting within the body of the world. It is not to do with individual gain, or individual effort, and so it is the gateway to peace and joy.

From another Soto Zen master, John Daido Loori, 

“What happens when the self is forgotten? What remains? The whole phenomenal universe remains. The whole Dharmadhatu remains. That’s what it means, “To forget the self is to be enlightened by the ten thousand things.”

John Daido Loori, “The Art of Just Sitting: Essential Writings on the Zen Practice of Shikantaza”:

“To be verified by all things is to let the body and mind of self, and body and mind of others, drop off.” Dropping off body and mind is a trnaslation of shinjin datsuraku. This is one of the key words in Dogen Zenji’s teachings. Originally the expression used by Dogen’s teacher [Tendo] Nyojo (Tiantong Rujing). In the Hokyoki, Dogen Zenji recorded his conversations with Ju-ching while he was practicing at the T’ien-t’ung (Tiantong) Monastery. This expression, shinjin datsuraku, was one of the topics Dogen Zenji discussed with his teacher repeatedly.

Nyojo said, “Sanzen is dropping off body and mind. We don’t use incense burning, prostration, nembutsu, practice of repentance, reading sutras. We only just sit (shikantaza).”

Dogen asked, “What is dropping off mind and body?” Nyojo said, “Dropping off body and mind is zazen. When we practice zazen, we part from the five desires and five coverings.” Dogen asked, if we part from the five desires and get rid of the five coverings, that is the same as the teaching taught in the teaching schools. Thus we are the same as the practitioners of Mahayana and Hinayana.”

Nyojo said, “The descendants of the Ancestor (Bodhidharma) should not dislike the teachings taught by Mahayana and Hinayana. If a practitioner is against the sacred teachings of the Tathagata, how can such a person be the descendant of the buddhas and ancestors?” Dogen asked, “In recent times, some skeptical people say that the three poisonous minds are themselves Buddha Dharma and the five desires are themselves the way of the ancestors. If we get rid of them, it is nothing other than like and dislike. Such a practice is the same as the Hinayana.”

Nyojo said, “If we don’t get rid of the three poisonous minds and the five desires, we are the same as the non-Buddhists in the country of the King Bimbisara and his son Ajatasattu (at the time of Shakyamuni Buddha). For the descendants of buddhas and ancestors, if we get rid of even one covering or one desire, that is the great benefit. That is the time we meet the buddhas and ancestors.”

Nyojo Zenji said that sanzen is dropping off body and mind and dropping off body and mind is zazen. He also said that dropping off body and mind is being free from the five desires and getting rid of the five coverings. The five desires are caused in our mind by contacting the objects of the five sense organs. When we see, hear, smell, taste, and touch some pleasurable objects, we enjoy them, we attach ourselves to them, and we want them more and more. Or if the objects are not pleasurable, we dislike them and try to keep away from them. But they often come toward us, so we hate them and become angry. Greed and anger are caused by the five desires.

The five coverings refer to hindrances that cover our mind and prevent it from functioning in a healthy way. Those are coverings of greed, anger or hatred, sleepiness or dullness, distraction, and doubt about the principle of causes and conditions. These five desires and five coverings are discussed originally in the Daichidoron (a commentary on Prajnaparamita Sutra by Nagarjuna) as obstacles in meditation practice. And Tendai Chigi, the great philosopher of the Chinese Tiantai (Tendai) School, mentioned them in the manual of meditation practice, the Mahashikan (Larger Book of Shamatha and Vipashyana). Chigi said that a practitioner should part from the five desires and get rid of the five coverings in the meditation practice called shikan (shamatha and vipashyana). Dogen Zenji was originally ordained as a Tendai monk in Japan and was familiar with the teachings and meditation practice in the Tendai tradition. Dogen was not satisfied by Tendai practice and began to practice Zen. That was why Dogen asked Nyojo if he should part from the five desires and the five coverings. Until then, Dogen Zenji was looking for something that is different from the teachings he learned in the teaching school. But Nyojo said that our practice of zazen should not be different from the Buddha’s teachings recorded in the sutras and systematized in philosophical teaching schools. The next conversation on the same topic between Dogen and Nyojo was as follows.

Nyojo said, “The descendants of the buddhas and ancestors should first get rid of the five coverings and then the six coverings. Adding the covering of ignorance to the five coverings make six coverings. Even if a practitioner only gets rid of the covering of ignorance, that makes the practitioner free from the five coverings. Even if a practitioner gets rid of the five coverings, if ignorance is not gotten rid of, the practitioner has not yet reached the practice of the buddhas and ancestors.”

Dogen immediately made a prostration and expressed gratitude for the teaching. He put his hands in shashu position and said, “Until today, I have not heard of such an instruction as that which you have given me now, teacher. Elders, experienced teachers, monks and Dharma brothers here do not know at all. They have never spoken like this. Today, fortunately, specially I have received your great compassion and have heard what I have not heard before. This is fortunate for me, because of the Dharma connection from the previous lives. And yet, is there any secret method to get rid of the five or six coverings?”

The teachers smiled and said, “Where have you been putting your whole energy? That is practicing nothing other than the Dharma to part from the six coverings. The buddhas and ancestors have not set up any classification in practice. They directly point out and singularly transmit the way of departing from the five desires and six coverings and getting free from the five desires. Making effort in just sitting and dropping off body and mind is the method to depart from the five coverings and the five desires. Besides this, there is nothing at all. Absolutely, there is nothing else. How can it fall into two or three?”

This is Tendo Nyojo Zenji’s explanation of dropping off body and mind. Since Nyojo was the original person who used this expression we should understand it based on Nyojo’s teaching. To drop off body and mind is to be free from the six coverings, the three poisonous minds that are the causes of samsara. In just sitting zazen, we let go of the three poisonous minds. That is why Dogen Zenji said zazen is not a practice of human beings but the practice of buddhas.”

(Note: three poisonous minds: passion/greed, aggression/hatred, delusion
Five desires: the desire for food, the desire for sex, the desire for sleep, the desire for comfort and the desire for reputation)


"Our present-day seven feet of skull and bones is precisely the form and image of the whole universe in all ten directions. Indeed, the whole universe in all ten directions which trains and enlightens us in the Buddha's Way is our skull and bones, our physical body with its skin, flesh, bones, and marrow." - Dogen


"Thus, the eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, and mind that fully manifest before us here and now are what an arhat is." - Dogen


Four years later, when Dogen returned to Japan, he said, "I have come back empty-handed. I have realized only that the eyes are horizontal and the nose is vertical."


"For Dogen this “dropping off body and mind” is the true nature both of just sitting and of complete enlightenment, and is the ultimate letting go of self, directly meeting the cold, clear wind and moon. After turning within while just sitting, it is carried on in all activity and throughout ongoing engagement with the world. Although just sitting now has been maintained for 750 years since Dogen, the teachings of Hongzhi and Dogen remain as primary guideposts to its practice." - Taigen Dan Leighton


“In Dogen’s view, the only reality is reality that is actually experienced as particular things at specific times. There is no “tile nature” apart from actual “tile forms,” there is no “essential Baso” apart from actual instances of “Baso experience.” When Baso sits in zazen, “zazen” becomes zazen, and “Baso” becomes Baso. Real instances of Baso sitting in zazen is real instances of Baso and real instances of zazen – when Baso eats rice, Baso is really Baso and eating rice is really eating rice.” - Ted Biringer,