Posts
- Reply
- Reply
- 8h
- Reply
- 8h
- Reply
- 8h
- Reply
- 8h
- Reply
- 12m
- Reply
- 7h
- Reply
- 7h
- Reply
- 7h
- Edited
- Reply
- 6h
- Edited
- Reply
- 6h
- Reply
- 6h
- Reply
- 5h
- Reply
- 1h
- Reply
- Remove Preview
- 16m
- Edited
- Reply
- Remove Preview
- 16m
- Reply
- 4h
- Edited
- Reply
- 3h
- Reply
- 3h
- Reply
- 1h
- Edited
- Reply
- Remove Preview
- 20m
- Reply
- Remove Preview
- 20m
William LimSaving this for future use
Yin LingThanks Soh! Also John but he’s not hereSoh Wei YuWah didn't know he disappeared again lolYin LingSoh Wei Yu oh sorry I thought this is ATr. Confused
Cheng ChenI recall in some sutra or Shastra, there is a reference to “and so-and-so rinpoche melted into the dharmakaya…” and thus disappeared
Mr. OMALike red is no longer mistaken to be redness of flower as an object, the redness and flower deconstructs into mere vivid red......I had something happen to this some time ago, not sure if it relates to your experience, but share it anyway I hope its ok."There are clinging to very subtle concepts like "green is green", "sounds are sounds", making sounds and colors (etc..) seem to have true existence, in other words, making it seem like all the objects of my senses have true existence. This beliefe in true existence then is not due to the objects out there having true inherent existence, but the clinging/beliefe to these subtle concepts, this happening in ones own mind. (there would then be a small shift reg seeing the nature of "color concepts")."When this has happened, I still see that green is green, sounds are sounds etc.. but also it becomes totally relative, there is no "locking" to this truth, and so there is freedom from it and whatever implications it might have (which I need to look more into later). When this happens the pharse that there are no eyes, ears, sounds actually makes totally sense, because that is exactly how it is like, though eyes, colors and so forth obviously still are there, and I can perfectly fine say stuff about my eyes, and describe colors I see. Not sure what more to say about it at this point but the experience is accompanied by: 1) cero clinging and complete spontaneity 2) deep sense of freedom and 3) compassion, becuase you dont experience division between you and the external world, you see others rather than engaging in your projections of them.I need to delete some of what I wrote in the end, no eyes, no ear, body etc.. is a different thing, was hyped when I wrote this due to the points of spontaneity, freedom etc.. lol. But there are some similarities though, and that I stopped experience colors as "real", and are left with this vivid energy of appearnces instead.Gary ChanWow you still cling to this topic and couldn’t let’s go….Soh Wei YuLol this is a crucial subject that will follow you all the way to liberation and even after you become arahantLinked Discourses 22.12212. A Dhamma speakerAn Ethical MendicantAt one time Venerable Sāriputta and Venerable Mahākoṭṭhita were staying near Benares, in the deer park at Isipatana. Then in the late afternoon, Venerable Mahākoṭṭhita came out of retreat, went to Venerable Sāriputta, and said:“Reverend Sāriputta, what things should an ethical mendicant properly attend to?”“Reverend Koṭṭhita, an ethical mendicant should properly attend to the five grasping aggregates as impermanent, as suffering, as diseased, as a boil, as a dart, as misery, as an affliction, as alien, as falling apart, as empty, as not-self. What five? That is, the grasping aggregates of form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness. An ethical mendicant should properly attend to these five grasping aggregates as impermanent, as suffering, as diseased, as a boil, as a dart, as misery, as an affliction, as alien, as falling apart, as empty, as not-self. It’s possible that an ethical mendicant who properly attends to the five grasping aggregates will realize the fruit of stream-entry.”“But Reverend Sāriputta, what things should a mendicant stream-enterer properly attend to?”“A mendicant stream-enterer should also properly attend to these five grasping aggregates as impermanent … as not-self. It’s possible that a mendicant stream-enterer who properly attends to the five grasping aggregates will realize the fruit of once-return.”“But Reverend Sāriputta, what things should a mendicant once-returner properly attend to?”“A mendicant once-returner should also properly attend to these five grasping aggregates as impermanent … as not-self. It’s possible that a mendicant once-returner who properly attends to the five grasping aggregates will realize the fruit of non-return.”“But Reverend Sāriputta, what things should a mendicant non-returner properly attend to?”“A mendicant non-returner should also properly attend to these five grasping aggregates as impermanent … as not-self. It’s possible that a mendicant non-returner who properly attends to the five grasping aggregates will realize perfection.”“But Reverend Sāriputta, what things should a perfected one properly attend to?”“Reverend Koṭṭhita, a perfected one should also properly attend to the five grasping aggregates as impermanent, as suffering, as diseased, as a boil, as a dart, as misery, as an affliction, as alien, as falling apart, as empty, as not-self. A perfected one has nothing more to do, and nothing that needs improvement. Still, these things, when developed and cultivated, lead to blissful meditation in the present life, and also to mindfulness and situational awareness.”Gary ChanLol this is crucial subject as Buddha shared with devotees that people is suffering because of clinging on something that’s is impermanent, non-self….Buddha pointed out that The path to liberation is to eliminate all Raga , Dosa and Moha, 貪，瞋，癡。Sabbakammakkhayam - pattoBuddha taught the way to eliminate it is 8 noble eightfold path 八正道Soh Wei YuYes indeedMindful of three dharma seals is practicing right mindfulness and right viewGary ChanAjahn Keng said that those Luang Phor becomes Arahant as they practice very hard in forest to eliminate all their Raga, Dosa and Moha…To realize Anatta means you understand what is Buddha’s teaching .. but not means that this is the path to liberationCheng ChenWhat Soh just posted is an extremely pithy and well-summarized write-up. It gets at a precisely differentiable aspect between mere no-self-needed for any and all phenomenon to totally no-essence-needed.John Tan both hints at Anatta being a spectrum leading to Emptiness and also teases out (but still gives the answer) to how that can be addressed by a fundamental gift of humans: cognitive logic.This is akin to a dog (w/ greyscale vision) developing the insight that not only is greyscale a facet of the color spectrum, but that seeing color itself is merely dependent on being a dog. I don’t know of many dogs that have achieved this.Daniel LefflerCheng Chen many dogs have achieved this. They were reborn as humans
Soh Wei YuGary Chan Having time to meditate is important, I try to meditate everyday unless really cannot make it that day for some reason.But even more important is to have right view and have direct realisation of right view and then practice based on that."View is more important than practice. That's why we are Buddhist and not Hindus." "Meditation without a correct view is an incorrect meditation." - Lopon Malcolm Smith, post in E-Sangha in 2008 or prior. Of course, practice is also important but “Right View” is a forerunner in the Noble Eightfold Path of Buddhism.“Your practice time is commendable. I am very sure that if you had realized right view, you will go very far.While I agree that Malcolm (like all other practitioners) probably would wish he had more time to practice [although Malcolm spent years in retreats, so his practice time was definitely more than most of us anyway], I am also sure he is very happy and satisfied that all his years of learning and studying the dharma has born fruit for him. It is not just an intellectual exercise for him, I'm sure.For, as he said years ago and I fully agree,"View is more important than practice. That's why we are Buddhist and not Hindus." "Meditation without a correct view is an incorrect meditation." - Dzogchen teacher Acarya Malcolm Smith"Meditation is not foremost, realization is foremost;If realization is not entered with confidence,The meditator is merely meditating on a conceptual state,The seeker is seeking with an afflicted clinging."- kun tu bzang po che ba la rang gnas paHowever this does not mean meditation is not important.“Malcolm (Loppon Namdrol) wrote:Rongzom makes the point very clearly that Dzogchen practitioners must develop the mental factors that characterize the first dhyana, vitarka, vicara, pritvi, sukha and ekagraha, i.e. applied attention, sustained attention, physical ease, mental ease and one-pointedness. If you do not have a stable samatha practice, you can't really call yourself a Dzogchen practitioner at all. At best, you can call yourself someone who would like to be a Dzogchen practitioner a ma rdzogs chen pa. People who think that Dzogchen frees one from the need to meditate seriously are seriously deluded. The sgra thal 'gyur clearly says:The faults of not meditating are:the characteristics of samsara appear to one,there is self and other, object and consciousness,the view is verbal,the field is perceptual,one is bound by afflictions,also one throws away the path of the buddhahood,one does not understand the nature of the result,a basis for the sameness of all phenomena does not exist,one's vidya is bound by the three realms,and one will fall into conceptualityHe also added:Dhyanas are defined by the presence or absence of specific mental factors.The Dhyanas were not the vehicle of Buddha's awakening, rather he coursed through them in order to remove traces of rebirth associated with the form and formless realms associated with the dhyanas.” - http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../dzogchen-meditation...“(8:06 PM) Thusness: Having the right view without right practice will not bear fruit.(8:06 PM) Thusness: right view, right practice and then fruition.” – John Tan, 2008I have also heard from another Chinese dharma teacher say that even someone who realises Buddhadharma (first bhumi/stream entry) with very little practice, from the perspective of Buddhadharma far outshines a non-Buddhist practitioner with years and years of deep samadhi and practice under his belt.Is this because this Buddhist teacher is biased to Buddhism? From my understanding, no. This is because you can be very deep in samadhi and practice, yet unable to have a very decisive breakthrough until realization of anatman and emptiness, which requires right view. Before that you can rest in Presence-Awareness or Clarity, but it does not go beyond Vedanta. Ramana Maharshi sat all day and night for years and years in caves in Nirvikalpa Samadhi -- absorption in the Pure Awareness of Being, and never left his seat, only surviving due to devotees feeding him food. Likewise John Tan ('Thusness'), my mentor, spent many years practicing Nirvikalpa Samadhi until his encounter with Buddhadharma led to his breakthrough. He is reclusive and does not like attention of people much less be a teacher, but he felt indebted to Buddha and left some writings as helpful pointers to others.Without deep insight into anatman and emptiness, there is still this subtle knot of perception, this karmic propensity that is the source of identity and dualism and samsara. That requires clear insight to break-through. So it is this insight that dissolves the bond, which years and years of samadhi could not. This is why someone who awakens via insight and wisdom 'outshines'. And Buddha is very clear on that.” – Soh, 2020
Dzogchen, Meditation and JhanaAWAKENINGTOREALITY.COMDzogchen, Meditation and JhanaSoh Wei YuAlso," I think that by considering this meaning of stream-entry, this might help some people on the path in evaluating where they are, and their capacity to eliminate fetters. For instance, if this strict interpretation of stream-entry (three fetters, thorough realization of selflessness and conditionality) is indeed correct, then it must be the prerequisite to actually permanently eliminating/uprooting the later fetters (sensual desire, ill-will...etc), since the first three fetters must be uprooted first by necessity before the latter ones can be permanently uprooted:"First, Susima, comes knowledge of the stability of the Dhamma [conditionality and selflessness], afterwards knowledge of Nibbana."SN 12.70"[insight] [buddhism] A reconsideration of the meaning of "Stream-Entry" considering the data points of both pragmatic Dharma and traditional BuddhismAWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM[insight] [buddhism] A reconsideration of the meaning of "Stream-Entry" considering the data points of both pragmatic Dharma and traditional BuddhismGeovani GeoEmptiness, non inherent existence, are pointers. Suddenly there is bare "something inexpressible that is Real (Maha)". Such sense of Maha Realness is inexpressible, none can transmit it. Which does not mean we shouldn't have fun through trying to express it.Mr. JPMisty Rain on Mount Lu,and waves surging in Che-chiang.When you have not yet been there,many a regret surely you have;but once there and heading homeward,how matter-of-fact everything looks!Misty rain on Mount Lu,and waves surging in Che-chiang.Mr./Ms. WAThis sounds like a lot of word play to me
Can we be more clear about the goals and directionality? Like a better framework for discussion might be: at X stage experience feels like this, but Y is still creating illusion. To see through Y, do this practice, and you will eventually arrive at Z.Cheng ChenWilliam Albert This is all already systematically summarized and debated countlessly by the Tibetans. However, that system and its implied stages/methods isn’t what Soh/JT/ ATR attempt to regurgitate. Their focus is more on the underlying, describable logical view that both guides and is a result of insight and realization.Soh Wei YuHere's a summary list:1. First there must be a deep conviction that arising does not need an essence. That view of subjective essence is simply a convenient view.2. First emptying of self/Self does not necessarily lead to illusion-like experience of reality. It does however allows experience to become vivid, luminous, direct and non-dual.3. First emptying may also lead a practitioner to be attached to an 'objective' world or turns physical. The 'dualistic' tendency will resurface after a period of few months so it is advisable to monitor one's progress for a few months.4. Second emptying of phenomena will turn experience illusion-like but take note of how emptying of phenomena is simply extending the same "emptiness view" of Self/self.5. From these experiences and realizations, contemplate what is meant by "thing", what is meant by mere construct and imputation.6. "Mind and body drop" are simply dissolving of mind and body constructs. If one day the experience of anatta turns a practitioner to the attachment of an 'objective and actual' world, deconstruct "physical".7. There is a relationship between "mental constructs", energy, luminosity and weight. A practitioner will experience a release of energies, freedom, clarity and feel light and weightless deconstructing 'mental constructs'.8. Also understand how the maha experience of interpenetration and non-obstruction is related to deconstructions of inherent view.9. No body, no mind, no dependent origination, no nothing, no something, no birth, no death. Profoundly deconstructed and emptied! Just vivid shimmering appearances as Primordial Suchness in one whole seamless unobstructed-interpenetration."Advice for TaiyakiAWAKENINGTOREALITY.COMAdvice for TaiyakiSoh Wei YuSummary list 2[7:54 AM, 6/3/2021] John Tan: Not bad. He should relook these insights and experiences and ask the following:1. If everything is me, then the sense of "me" must also disappear at that moment of experience. Otherwise one must mature the experience into no-mind and then anatta as an insight.2. If later it is realized that there is no me/self/Self as an insight and experience (anatta), then one must refine the view and question how does the sense of me/self/Self arise in the first place?3. Then bring this insight from the refinement of view into all phenomena and all actions.4. Therefore not only there is no seer in the seen just the seen, there is no seeing and nothing seen. No self, no others and no aggregates.5. If this is understood only as negations, then one is not free from extremes and all elaborations.6. Therefore conventionally, there is self, others, seer, seeing and seen. There are causes and effects. There is arising, abiding and ceasing and the only valid mode of arising is dependent arising.7. Point 1, 2, 3 praxis is on samatha and vipassana. Direct experience and insights. To mature this insight of anatta, the path of analysis is needed.8. Point 4-6 thorough reasoning and analysis is added to relinquish cognitive obscuration.9. If he is interested, he should look into mmk (Nagarjuna's text Mūlamadhyamakakārikā), it will expose the many hidden nuances and subtleties of our cognitive obscurations. Patience is needed to get used to the line of reasoning of Nagarjuna. But no need to get involved in those polemics of the Tibetan schools.[8:08 AM, 6/3/2021] John Tan: 10. Lastly one should understand the praxis of the 2 stanzas and mmk are different. The 2 stanzas are using samatha and vipassana to directly see through mental constructs to realize one's nature (direct path) whereas mmk is via path of analysis and reasoning. So when reading mmk, one must adhere strictly to the conventional 3 fold structure of seer-seeing-seen. See through the structures and deconstruct step by step. The ultimate purpose and result are the same except mmk exposes all the very subtle and hidden cognitives obscurations that we are unable even post anatta insight. So if one is interested in bringing anatta insight to maturity and perfection, mmk is needed.Anatta and Post-Anatta, MMK, etcAWAKENINGTOREALITY.COMAnatta and Post-Anatta, MMK, etc
11m
Shared with Your friends
Journey from Anatta to Emptiness
[5/6/22, 3:56:54 PM] Soh Wei Yu: No background besides manifestation, manifestation are self luminous and empty without agent, watcher or doer
[5/6/22, 3:59:54 PM] John Tan: Still only anatta then pure appearances as one's radiance clarity. That will not lead u to the insight of emptiness. U need two more insights, what r those?
[5/6/22, 4:00:22 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Whatever dependently originates are non arising (see Primordially Unborn , Non-Arising due to Dependent Origination), everything is like chariot (see Emptiness/Chariot as Vivid Appearing Presence)
[5/6/22, 4:00:40 PM] John Tan: Ur head.
[5/6/22, 4:01:11 PM] John Tan: How does anatta lead u to such understanding?
[5/6/22, 4:01:25 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Anatta is before emptiness
[5/6/22, 4:01:35 PM] Soh Wei Yu: But it sees through inherent view of awareness and background
[5/6/22, 4:01:41 PM] Soh Wei Yu: So is also a form of emptiness
[5/6/22, 4:02:02 PM] John Tan: So from anatta, without any linked, u jumped to emptiness?
[5/6/22, 4:02:52 PM] John Tan: Empty of self-nature, inherent existence is one of the important insights.
[5/6/22, 4:06:31 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Anatta leads to seeing the self and consciousness as a construct like weather* (Soh: see weather analogy below) or chariot.. when applied to all phenomena they are also like that, non arisen
So seeing through the background and [inherent existence of] awareness leads to direct taste of manifestation, likewise seeing through the constructs of objects leads to vivid nonrefential empty clarity-appearance.. meaning no longer apprehended as entities or objects with characteristics
Like red is no longer mistaken to be redness of flower as an object, the redness and flower deconstructs into mere vivid red
(Soh: Also see 'must read article' 2) On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection )
(Soh: Also see 'must read article' 2) On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection )
[5/6/22, 4:06:34 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic
[5/6/22, 4:17:15 PM] John Tan: Yes u realized "self/Self" is learnt, there is no self. A reified mental construct, a named thing mistaken as real. Then u extend that insight to all phenomena. A thorough de-construction of inherentness on all aspects of named things in which “觉” (Soh: Awareness) is one of such phenomena/dharma only, although a very crucial one. All these deal directly with alaya in "uprooting" ignorance, this deals with alaya.
If u stay at this, "No background besides manifestation, manifestation are self luminous and empty without agent, watcher or doer", then u only know "oh, there is no self" and all Ur focus is on elimating self, it will not lead to emptiness.
[5/6/22, 4:19:07 PM] John Tan: If u go further, then u will have understanding of primordial purity and equality through seeing through all notions and self-nature.
[5/6/22, 4:27:56 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[5/6/22, 4:31:54 PM] Soh Wei Yu: When i say luminous and empty i mean also unreal, illusory like a reflection and like chariot, not any inherent entity
[5/6/22, 4:32:14 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Otherwise will be luminous and real like AF lol
[5/6/22, 6:43:54 PM] John Tan: Yes
*Weather analogy:
*Weather analogy:
2010, John Tan:
I did not tell you that pure aggregates is awareness, that is non-dual. When you understand anatta, you realize awareness is like weather, it is a label to denote this luminous yet empty arising, that is pure aggregates.
2013 conversation with John Tan:
John Tan: When you say "weather", does weather exist?
Soh Wei Yu: No. It's a convention imputed on a seamless activity. Existence and non existence don't apply.
John Tan: What is the basis where this label rely on?
Soh Wei Yu: Rain clouds wind etc
John Tan: Don't talk prasanga. Directly see. Rain too is a label. But in direct experience, there is no issue but when probed, you realized how one is confused about the reification from language. And from there life/death/creation/cessation arise. And whole lots of attachment. But it does not mean there is no basis...get it?
Soh Wei Yu: The basis is just the experience right?
John Tan: Yes which is plain and simple. When we say the weather is windy. Feel the wind, the blowing… But when we look at language and mistaken verb for nouns there are big issues. So before we talk about this and that. Understand what consciousness is and awareness is. Get it? When we say weather, feel the sunshine, the wind, the rain. You do not search for weather. Get it? Similarly, when we say awareness, look into scenery, sound, tactile sensations, scents and thoughts”.
1 Comment
William Lim
Saving this for future use
