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Owen Richards

Where is suffering and the end of suffering in such perceptual takes on awakening?

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Soh Wei Yu

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Owen Richards That has to do with the depth of how deep your realisation has sunk in and liberates the latent tendency. This is why there is the gradation from stream entry to arahantship. Or 1st bhumi to Buddhahood. The Buddha said 'in the seen just the seen... ...no you in terms of that...' in Bahiya Sutta is equivalent to 'the end of suffering', and Bahiya got it instantly and attained Arahantship, the complete end of mental afflictions and suffering. But does that mean everyone who has the anatman insight becomes an arahant instantly? No, usually it means one starts with stream entry ( https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/comments/igored/insight_buddhism_a_reconsideration_of_the_meaning/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf%20 , http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2020/08/insight-buddhism-reconsideration-of.html ), unless you are of the elite calibre. This is why as Kyle Dixon said in 2013, “99% of individuals require integration and familiarization. The non-gradual individuals [cig car ba's] are said to be as rare as stars in the day time, and the Dalai Lama attests that there hasn't been a cig car ba for centuries.”

But when you are in actual equipoise, even if you are just a stream enterer, there is no suffering. There is literally no self/Self at all either. In the seen just the seen, no seer, no seeing and nothing seen.. and same goes for all senses. Just bright, vivid, empty luminosity/radiance as all appearances. And sustaining the awakened equipoise is the way to burn away all residual latent karmic traces. But whether at the beginning you have that insight suffused with sufficient samadhi and stability is another matter, without that strength you will still be affected by the traces. When that awakened equipoise is unbroken 24/7/365 even into all the three states and all subtle latent tendencies have been exhausted, that is Buddhahood. If you experience the slightest mental affliction or negative emotions for even 0.001 seconds in the entire year, you have not attained the 8th bhumi (in fact by the 3rd bhumi you should hardly have any of them at all), let alone a Buddha that has exhausted both obscurations (afflictions and knowledge obscurations). But your day to day living should see a tremendous reduction of suffering and mental afflictions in general, even if you are just at the level of stream entry if you are on the Sravaka path, or the 1st bhumi stage if you are on the Mahayana path. So even after you realise anatta and emptiness, there's still a long way to go. But what 99% of people describe as no-self is not even what AtR calls anatman insight, and is not stream entry, but is most likely merely an experience of impersonality or non-doership. See http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2020/04/different-degress-of-no-self-non.html And what some/many people describe as arahant is only what the suttas and AtR consider to be merely stream entry (ala Daniel Ingram's model and definition of arahantship is simply what we consider to be stream entry here).

Also see: http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2022/07/buddhahood-end-of-all-emotionalmental.html

Also, excerpts by Kyle Dixon:

"...The anatta definitely severed many emotional afflictions, for the most part I don't have negative emotions anymore. And either the anatta or the strict shamatha training has resulted in stable shamatha where thoughts have little effect and are diminished by the force of clarity. I'm also able to control them, stopping them for any amount of desired time etc. But I understand that isn't what is important. Can I fully open to whatever arises I would say yes. I understand that every instance of experience is fully appearing to itself as the radiance of clarity, yet timelessly disjointed and unsubstantiated.." - Kyle Dixon, 2013

Kyle has written a very nice account back in 2012 of his own realization: Advice from Kyle Dixon - http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2014/10/advise-from-kyle_10.html

“The conditions for this subtle identification are not undone until anatta is realized.

Anatta realization is like a massive release of prolonged tension, this is how John put it once at least. Like a tight fist, that has been tight for lifetimes, is suddenly relaxed. There is a great deal of power in the event. The nature of this realization is not often described in traditional settings, I have seen Traga Rinpoche discuss it. Jñāna is very bright and beautiful. That brightness is traditionally the “force” that “burns” the kleśas.

The reservoir of traces and karmic imprints is suddenly purged by this wonderful, violent brightness. After this occurs negative emotions are subdued and for the most part do not manifest anymore. Although this is contingent upon the length of time one maintains that equipoise.” - Kyle Dixon, 2019

“Prajñā “burns” karma, only when in awakened equipoise. Regular meditation does not.” - Kyle Dixon, 2021

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Soh Wei Yu

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As John Tan said before, if you still experience even the slightest negative emotions when faced with the worldly winds, then in such case, you have not even lived in non-dual radiance to the "middle level", otherwise whatever happens to you, the eight worldly winds, they won't affect you at all. Even if loved ones depart from your life and so on, the universe collapses, whatever. Therefore if one feels one is still affected even in the slightest (like feeling the slightest tinge of sadness or attachment to anything that happens), then one must increase one's practice. You have to sit and overcome the body to stillness and then to pervasiveness of radiance, and master a skill (method of practice) that can help to develop your meditation (shamatha-vipashyana) and don't think you have reached the ultimate stage of non-meditation. It's a joke, laughable, he said.

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Yin Ling

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Soh Wei Yu this comment should be a post in itself!

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