Is I AMness stream entry?


  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    No, stream entry as defined in the suttas is not the first awakening (I AM).
    It is the realisation of no self and conditionality
    The reddit post is of such importance (due to a very common misunderstanding about what stream entry means) that my mentor Thusness told me to place it at the top of the reading list in my Awakening to Reality blog

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    Diederik van der Boor
    Author
    Soh Wei Yu Thank you for these extensive pointers.
    I'm still slightly tripped by the terminology still because the Reddit post also mentions "stream-Entry (first Bodhi/awakening)", which would again suggest the equivalence with kensho/satori. I hope to get a sense of whether people talk of the same thing, or completely speak of different things while thinking they are the same.
    For me, no-self is a much deeper stage of awakening, and I AM not as the first one. I'm lookin from the perspective of: first awakening -> finding emptyness in all forms -> finding awareness/fullness in everything (I AM?) -> taking that deeper -> no-self -> beyond original dualty of phenomena/awareness -> beyond mystery -> finding Divinity in everything

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    Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    Diederik van der Boor If you go by Theravada path, you don't have to go through the I AM. I AM is only practiced and realised by the Thai forest Theravadins. The Mahasi path does not go through I AM. Daniel Ingram did not go through I AM before his anatta realization, which unfortunately he inaccurately (scripturally speaking) placed it as arahantship (4th path). It should accurately be called stream entry instead.
    Daniel's definition of 1st and 2nd path (I just called them MCTB 1st/2nd/3rd/4th path but I don't agree they line up with the scriptures or Buddha's teachings) are just blip outs. Cessations. They don't have anything to do with I AM either (they are not for example, Nirvikalpa samadhi where mental-sensory perceptions blank out into an absorption in pure Presence/Beingness) But still they are mundane samadhis actually, it is not nirvana (although modern practitioners, some of them made this mistaken of equating these mundane blip outs with nirvana), they are not the real stream entry, they do not produce a quantum leap of perception that affects day to day life in very much the same way as a real nondual awakening, no-self awakening, or even an I AM awakening does. Yin Ling can tell you about this because she went through the Mahasi path.
    O

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  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    Furthermore, even in for example, the Mahamudra and Dzogchen path, the way they present things are very similar to what I said. Will elaborate in the next post


  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    But basically, I have read thousands of pages of pali suttas (I read it after Bahiya Sutta, a pali sutta text, led to my realization of anatman/no-self proper in October 2010), during 2010 to 2012, and I am confident of my understanding. Buddha never led anyone to I AM and called it stream entry or defined it in any way like that. But he did clearly go through I AM from his Samkhya teachers (and was dissatisfied with his attainments, left and attained awakening on his own under the bodhi tree later), it just wasn't placed as a supramundane path for his followers. He was always adamant about overcoming the myriad views of self (including being a watcher, the Samkhya/Vedantic's infinite self, and so on), and the elimination of all such views of self through direct experiential insight, that is stream entry. I elaborated with scriptural quotations in http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../anatta-not-self-or... and also you can read more about it in Geoff's well written articles like http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.au/.../great...
    Anatta: Not-Self or No-Self?
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    Anatta: Not-Self or No-Self?
    Anatta: Not-Self or No-Self?

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  • Yin Ling
    Soh Wei Yu nothing to add to your comment.
    Blipping out or cessation is Nothing to shout home about. There’s no insight in that. It’s just how mind works. I blip out a lot involuntarily, it feels good but that’s all lol. Some ppl can induce it. But the duality I’m not broken. Very far from stream entry.


  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    ok.. now about the Mahamudra and Dzogchen path.
    In multiple books, Mahamudra teachers from ancient times, like Dakpo Tashi Namgyal, has defined a map of enlightenment known as the four yogas. The four yogas are as follows: the yoga of one pointedness, the yoga of simplicity, the yoga of one taste, and the yoga of non-meditation.
    The first bhumi (also known as Mahayana stream entry), universally defined as the moment where one has the direct experiential realization of emptiness, that is defined by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal in his book (very highly recommended reading -- clarifying the natural state, see -- you can get the book at $1.25 http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../some-book... )
    Dakpo Tashi Namgyal equates the beginning of the yoga of one taste with the path of seeing, the first bhumi. Some Mahamudra teachers define first bhumi as a certain stage within the yoga of simplicity (which some also define it as seeing through the emptiness of subject-action-object). Maps and definitions may differ slightly according to different teachers. But I tend to like Dakpo Tashi's mapping. In any case, all agree that the first bhumi is directly correlated with the realization of emptiness, the seeing through of the seer-seeing-seen/subject-action-object construct, it also corresponds to the realising of non-arising of mind and phenomena (the empty nature of mind and phenomena). Furthermore, none of the Mahamudra teachers would equate the first yoga of one pointedness, with first bhumi.
    And yet, it is clearly this very first yoga of one pointedness that is where the so called 'first awakening' or the I AM is at.
    How do I know? These quotes are crystal clear: "You have seen the essence of One-Pointedness if you
    have reached a naturally knowing and confident certainty
    in your mind's aware emptiness. You have not seen the
    essence if you do not possess this confident certitude, even
    if you can remain in the states of bliss, clarity and nonthought." - Dakpo Tashi Namgyal, Clarifying the Natural State
    In other books by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal, it is also mentioned somewhere that the earlier yoga of one pointedness is where the characteristic of luminous clarity of one's essence is discovered (this corresponds to the so called I AM). Whereas emptiness (which includes no-self) is only realised in the later yogas.
    Likewise, other teachers like Khamtrul Rinpoche, Tsoknyi Rinpoche also made a distinction between the beginner's vipashyana or 'baby rigpa' from the real matured or 'fruitional' vipashyana and rigpa.
    "At that point, is the observer—awareness—other than the observed—stillness and movement—or is it actually that stillness and movement itself? By investigating with the gaze of your own awareness, you come to understand that that which is investigating itself is also no other than stillness and movement. Once this happens you will experience lucid emptiness as the naturally luminous self-knowing awareness. Ultimately, whether we say nature and radiance, undesirable and antidote, observer and observed, mindfulness and thoughts, stillness and movement, etc., you should know that the terms of each pair are no different from one another; by receiving the blessing of the guru, properly ascertain that they are inseparable. Ultimately, to arrive at the expanse free of observer and observed is the realization of the true meaning and the culmination of all analyses. This is called “the view transcending concepts,” which is free of conceptualization, or “the vajra mind view.”
    "Fruition vipashyana is the correct realization of the final conviction of the nonduality of observer and observed."
    - Khamtrul Rinpoche, Royal Seal of Mahamudra Part 1 http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../self-liberation-by...
    . And yet this does not mean one has ended one's path, it is just the path of seeing to be followed by the path of meditation and non meditation (spanning the yogas of one taste and yogas of non-meditation, or bhumis 1 to 10/13/16)
    Some book recommendations for newcomers
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    Some book recommendations for newcomers
    Some book recommendations for newcomers

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  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    Kyle Dixon shared with me resources describing first bhumi years ago, "The Daśabhūmika sūtra, and its commentary by Vasubandhu. Candrakīrti’s Madhyamakāvatāra. The Avataṃsaka.
    But I’m not sure how extensive the descriptions are. The first bhūmi is without a doubt the first instance of insight into emptiness.
    Wikipedia says “According to Tsong Khapa, first level bodhisattvas directly understand that persons do not exist by way of their own nature. Due to this, they overcome the false idea that the five aggregates constitute a truly existent person. They also eliminate predispositions toward corrupted ethics so completely that they will not arise again.[8]”
    There’s no doubt this is anatta."
    Also
    "...The corpus of the doctrines of Maitreya and the scriptures of the great chariot, Asaṅga, both teach with a single intent that a person on the ground of motivated conduct184 first understands all phenomena to be merely mind, and then experiences that the mind has nothing to perceive. Then, at the time of the supreme quality on the path of joining,185 one realizes that since the perceived does not exist, neither does the perceiver. Right after this, the truth of suchness, which is free from dualistic fixation, is directly realized. This is said to be the attainment of the first ground.
    Duckworth, Douglas. Jamgon Mipam: His Life and Teachings (p. 151). Shambhala. Kindle Edition."
    Also (notice how first bhumi is Mahamudra stream entry)
    "The Bodhisattvas on this ground have a direct realization of the nonexistence of the self. This enables them to abandon the three fetters: the view of the transitory composite, the belief in the superiority of their ethical discipline, and doubt—together with all the obscurations eliminated on the path of seeing. "
    Next post: I will talk about Dzogchen
    Definition of First Bhumi, Stream Entry, Etc
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    Definition of First Bhumi, Stream Entry, Etc
    Definition of First Bhumi, Stream Entry, Etc

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  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    Oh wait. Before that. I quoted fruitional vipashyana from Mahamudra but I forgot to quote 'Beginner's Vipashyana':
    Now, to what degree must vipashyana have arisen to be considered true vipashyana? The unmistaken vipashyana that has directly realized the truth of dharmata comes only at the time of the greater level of the yoga of simplicity. In our case, however, we are only concerned with the vipashyana that arises in the beginner’s mind. For instance, the first moon of the month does not have the same function as the full moon, yet it is still conventionally considered to be the moon. Therefore here we are concerned with the vipashyana that includes one’s mind and the thoughts and phenomena arising from its radiance, as discussed earlier. All phenomena of subject and object are unoriginated, nonabiding, and unceasing. To know this crucial point and to have the experience and conviction born from deep within that they are devoid of true essence or nature is what, at this point, should be defined as vipashyana. It may happen that, for some time, vipashyana does not arise to such a degree. However, as followers of the practice lineage, we acknowledge the following beginner’s vipashyana. The essence of one’s mind is an unidentifiable void; it is the primordial cognizance that has not been fabricated. In the mind that is aware of itself and lucid by itself, these two, void and cognizance, are inseparable. To gain the experience that the mind has ascertained that it is so is a beginner’s vipashyana. By sustaining just that much at the beginning, we are confident that unmistaken vipashyana will gradually arise.
    Khamtrul Rinpoche III. The Royal Seal of Mahamudra: Volume One: A Guidebook for the Realization of Coemergence: 1 (p. 262). Shambhala. Kindle Edition.


  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    About Dzogchen: similar mappings can be found.
    The rigpa (knowledge or recognition of one's nature) that all Dzogchen practitioners must obtain, either from the direct introduction given by the Master (it does work that way -- someone described to me that he had that initial first awakening just by listening and attending to Acarya Malcolm Smith's first Dzogchen direct introduction teaching, the first session), or if having failed, subsequently self-introduces oneself to one's own nature through the practices of semdzins and rushans taught by the teacher. Prior to rigpa or having that recognition, one's Dzogchen practice has not really begun.
    Yet nobody realizes emptiness on the first introduction, unless you belong to a special calibre that is perhaps reserved to fables and stories.
    Almost everyone goes through the phases of first recognizing the aspect of unfabricated clarity, where the Dzogchen teacher tells you to distinguish the reflections (phenomena) from the mirror itself, so that you can discover that you are the mirror of instant presence. Sometimes they even use self enquiry to discover 'Who' is that instant presence even when all visualisations have vanished. But this is just the beginning, the discovery of instant presence is simply the discovery of one's unfabricated clarity, but it is the crucial first recognition of the clarity of rigpa, but it is not the matured or ripened rigpa that comes with the realization of emptiness or at third vision which is then equated with the path of seeing, the first bhumi, etc. (Dzogchen's rainbow body is the last bhumi, Buddhahood, etc) The realization of no-self and emptiness comes later, at a very mature phase of one's Trekcho's practice where one suddenly discovers the non-arising (empty) nature of one's mind, and discovers one's primordial purity (Kadag). Or, one reaches the third vision of the Thodgal practice. One simply requires the recognition of clarity aspect of rigpa for the first two visions.
    You can read http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../the-degrees-of... -- so the specific methods and practices differ, but the progression of insight, as far as I tell, there are strong overlaps.
    The Degrees of Rigpa
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    The Degrees of Rigpa
    The Degrees of Rigpa

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  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    I have attended Acarya Malcolm Smith's Dzogchen teachings and I am simply reiterating what I have learnt, as far as I can tell.


  • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    But Kyle Dixon, long time student of Malcolm (and Malcolm told me in 2019 that Kyle was the first who totally understood his teachings, and also Kyle himself has the realisation of anatman and emptiness, also see http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../advise-from-kyle_10... ), agrees with me privately that the so called I AM, or instant presence, is similar to the initial rigpa and then the realisation of anatman and emptiness comes later, known as the fully ripened or matured rigpa, the rigpa of the third vision, the first bhumi, and so on.
    Advice from Kyle Dixon
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    Advice from Kyle Dixon
    Advice from Kyle Dixon

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  • Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment
    Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment

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