Showing posts with label Emptiness. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Emptiness. Show all posts

Shared by Kyle Dixon/Krodha on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/1c04oou/an_exposition_on_selflessness_according_to/

An Exposition on Selflessness According to Mahāyāna and Vajrayāna by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal

An exposition on selflessness (anātman) by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal (1511-1587) from his text *Mahāmudrā: The Moonlight* with relevant citations from Mahāyāna scripture:

To identify the self and the mind’s clinging to it, it is said that although duality is devoid of essence, it is misconceived as possessing substantiality, due to inbred delusion. The mind develops attachments and clings to the two self-entities of subject and object. Conversely, the nonexistence of the two innate selves is nonduality.

Candrakīrti in his commentary to the *Catuḥśataka* says:

>*What is described as the self (ātman) is the essence or the inborn entity, the existence of which does not depend on external conditions. Selflessness (anātman) is without such a self. Selflessness of material and mental phenomena are so designated because the two distinctions are made in the form of material elements and personality (dharma and pudgala).*

Dharmakīrti says:

>*The dual realities categorized according to their inherent characteristics are designated as “dharmas” (the elements of material phenomena) while personality is stated to consist of man’s stream-consciousness (mindstream) that coalesces with the physical constituents.*

The *Dho Silbu* summarizes:

>*All [the realities of] the elements bearing inherent characteristics are designated as “dharmas.” The stream-consciousness is designated as personality (pudgala).*

The self of personality (pudgala-ātman) consists of the innate consciousness that assigns to itself, as its own nature, an eternal, independent entity and thereby clings to the notion of “I” or “self.” The self of material elements (dharma-ātman) is the product of the mind grasping at realities, such as the physical constituents of life, as being objective realities composed of innate substance and clinging to them as such. These two “selves” engender karma, defilement, affliction and harm.

Śrī Dharmakīrti comments:  

>*By conceiving of the self, one perceives the existence of others. Differentiating between self and others causes attachment and hatred. Entanglement with these causes afflictions.*

The *Ratnāvalī* elucidates:  

>*As long as clinging to the aggregates [of life] exists, so long does clinging to the self persist. Where there is clinging to the self, there is karma. Karma causes rebirth.*  

In order to eliminate the stream of existence caused by clinging to the self, it is essential to meditate upon the meaning of selflessness.  

Dharmakīrti states:  

>*Without subduing the subjective base of this [self], one cannot eliminate it.*

The *Catuḥśataka* comments:  

>*When one perceives nonselfhood in the perceptive base, the seed of cyclic existence will cease to exist.*

The *Madhyamakāvatāra* says:  

>*All defilements and afflictions originate from conceiving as real the transient aggregates of being. Only by perceiving this and investigating the realms of this self, can a yogin eliminate it [the self].*

Only by meditating upon the truth of nonselfhood can one eliminate the deluded view and the clinging to the “I” and “mine.” Such an elimination terminates rebirth caused by clinging, sensuality, and the rest. In this way liberation is fully achieved.  

The *Mūlamadhyamakakārikā* says:  

>*Upon the elimination of “I’ and “mine,” internal and external realities, the psychophysical aggregates will cease. With this, rebirth, karma and defilements will cease, and thus liberation will be achieved.*

The *Ratnāvalī* states:  

>*Assertion of the reality of “I” and “mine” is a distortion of the dharma.*  

The self of the personality is thus stated to be nonexistent. The logic concerning the nonexistent self states that, if it exists, it must emerge either in oneself, in others, in both or in the three periods of time. Since this self has not emerged in these, it is nonexistent. The same text states:  

>*Since the self has not emerged out of oneself, others, or both, nor been born in the three periods of time, clinging to the self can therefore be eliminated.*  

Furthermore, if the self of personality exists, it must necessarily be either identical to the psychophysical aggregates or distinct from them. Both of these hypotheses are untenable.  

The *Mūlamadhyamakakārikā* comments:  

>*When one says that no self exists except for the rebirth-seeking aggregates, it means that these aggregates are identical with the self. Then the self is indeed nonexistent.*

The same text states:  

>*If the aggregates are the self, then it too will be subject to birth and death.*  

Thus the contention that the self is identical with the psychophysical aggregates has been refuted. If one assumes that the [independent] self is subject to the cycle of birth and death, this [self-contradiction] will be refuted through the following inferences. [The self that lost its enduring nature would make the possibility of] recollecting untenable. Memory of a past life would not be possible, committed karma would not product results, and one would experience effects without karmic causes.  

The separate realities of the self and the aggregates are also refuted in the same text:  

>*If the self is a separate entity from the psychophysical aggregates, the characteristics of these aggregates become invalid.*

The same text continues:  

>*The self is an entity separate from the rebirth-seeking aggregates - this is untenable. For if objective reality without the aggregates were possible, then cognition would not be possible.*

In the *Madhyamakāvatāra,* it is said:  

>*For all these reasons the self does not exist apart from the aggregates; except for the aggregates, no perceiver exists.*

Eliminating the self of personality by implication negates the existence [of the substantive nature] of its parts such as the eyes, nose and the rest. 

The *Mūlamadhyamakakārikā* states:  

>*If the “I” does not exist, how can there be the “mine?”*

The *Madhyamakāvatāra* states:  

>*Because there is no actor, there is no action, for there can be no self of a person who is nonexistent. Therefore, the seeker of truth who conceives the emptiness of “I” and “mine” will achieve perfect liberation.*

The following is a summary of the meditation upon nonselfhood of personality, as stated in the first *Bhāvanākrama:*

>*There is no personality to be perceived apart from the aggregates, elements and sense faculties. The self is not the essence of the aggregates, etc., because they are essentially transient and composite, whereas personality has been defined by others [such as those of the Brahmanic tradition] as an eternal and independent essence. This self or another undefinable self cannot possibly exist as substantial entities, since there is no reality of substance. Establish all that is conceived as “I” and “mine” in the transient world as a total delusion!*

 John Tan:


明心还需见空性,明空性也需证妙心。


Soh’s translation:


"After apperceiving the (radiant/luminous) mind, one still needs to see the nature of emptiness; even understanding the nature of emptiness, one also needs to realize to the marvelous heart (Mind)."



----


Other relevant quotes:



“Should be recognition of radiance clarity is implied and naturally realized.


The recognition should be directly into realizing appearances as empty clarity therefore both 能所双亡 (ChatGPT translate: both subject and object are not found) as both are merely conventionally designated and dependently arise.


As 五祖 (ChatGPT translate: the Fifth Patriarch) told 慧能 (ChatGPT translate: Huineng), 不识本心 学法无益 (ChatGPT translate: Not knowing the original mind, learning the Dharma is of no benefit). Like 10 ox herding pictures, 能所双亡 (ChatGPT translate: both subject and object are not found) comes at a later phase.”

“Even when clarity is authenticated, still one got to differentiate between no-mind and anatta. Then "I" as reified construct and extend to phenomena to realized primodial purity of one's mind.”


—-


John Tan's reply on something Malcolm wrote in 2020:


“This is like what I tell you and essentially emphasizing 明心非见性. 先明心, 后见性. (Soh: Apprehending Mind is not seeing [its] Nature. First apprehend Mind, later realise [its] Nature).


First is directly authenticating mind/consciousness 明心 (Soh: Apprehending Mind). There is the direct path like zen sudden enlightenment of one's original mind or mahamudra or dzogchen direct introduction of rigpa or even self enquiry of advaita -- the direct, immediate, perception of "consciousness" without intermediaries. They are the same.


However that is not realization of emptiness. Realization of emptiness is 见性 (Soh: Seeing Nature). Imo there is direct path to 明心 (Soh: Apprehending Mind) but I have not seen any direct path to 见性 (Soh: Seeing Nature) yet. If you go through the depth and nuances of our mental constructs, you will understand how deep and subtle the blind spots are.


Therefore emptiness or 空性 (Soh: Empty Nature) is the main difference between buddhism and other religions. Although anatta is the direct experiential taste of emptiness, there is still a difference between buddhist's anatta and selflessness of other religions -- whether it is anatta by experiential taste of the dissolution of self alone or the experiential taste is triggered by wisdom of emptiness.


The former focused on selflessness and whole path of practice is all about doing away with self whereas the latter is about living in the wisdom of emptiness and applying that insight and wisdom of emptiness to all phenomena.


As for emptiness there is the fine line of seeing through inherentness of Tsongkhapa and there is the emptiness free from extremes by Gorampa. Both are equally profound so do not talk nonsense and engaged in profane speech as in terms of result, ultimately they are the same (imo).”


Dalai Lama - "Nature - there are many different levels. Conventional level, one nature. There are also, you see, different levels. Then, ultimate level, ultimate reality... so simply realise the Clarity of the Mind, that is the conventional level. That is common with Hindus, like that. So we have to know these different levels...." 


-- See more at Recognizing Rigpa vs Realizing Emptiness, and the Different Modalities of Rigpa 


-----




[20/3/24, 11:51:11 PM] John Tan: Currently u r just practicing natural opening of radiance right?

[20/3/24, 11:56:50 PM] Soh Wei Yu: mostly yes

[20/3/24, 11:58:40 PM] John Tan: Yes and u believe and have great confidence that focusing on the purity and undeserving openning of one's radiance led to liberation correct?

[20/3/24, 11:58:52 PM] John Tan: Unreserved

[20/3/24, 11:59:41 PM] Soh Wei Yu: yes but i think that is also contingent on how clear is one's insight into emptiness

[20/3/24, 11:59:52 PM] Soh Wei Yu: for example anatta is also one type of wisdom into emptiness.. the initial one

[21/3/24, 12:00:03 AM] Soh Wei Yu: without that its not even possible to openly taste radiance as appearance for example

[21/3/24, 12:01:03 AM] John Tan: Yes what else?

[21/3/24, 12:03:34 AM] Soh Wei Yu: emptiness must extend to all self and phenomena as reified, mere names and imputations, non-arisen... and must lead to presence as free from extremes, illusory in taste, like space, a kind of insubstantial presence-absence rather than solid and real. beyond that theres still subtler cognitive obscurations

[21/3/24, 12:08:07 AM] John Tan: In one sense yes but the purpose is see without confusion what exactly are conventional in our thoughts moments and we will understand clearly all our discussions above.  Especially after anatta.

[21/3/24, 12:08:55 AM] Soh Wei Yu: oic..

[21/3/24, 12:11:21 AM] John Tan: Now I ask u, is ur body more important than empty radiance?

[21/3/24, 12:20:19 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Hmm.. they are inseparable.. thats why yoga etc are important

[21/3/24, 12:22:03 AM] John Tan: Normal exercises will do to balance ur energy before one is in a natural state of effortless and unreserved openning.

[21/3/24, 12:23:15 AM] John Tan: Exotic poses can harm ur body if not carefully practice esp without proper guidiance

[21/3/24, 12:23:29 AM] Soh Wei Yu: oic..

[21/3/24, 12:24:49 AM] Soh Wei Yu: my dad told me when you demonstrated some poses or asanas, it seemed quite extreme and maybe harmful lol.. i told him its because you practice for many many years and are flexible and you also warned about dangers of extreme yoga before

[21/3/24, 12:25:10 AM] John Tan: Yeah

[21/3/24, 12:26:12 AM] John Tan: Not suitable for ppl without guidance. Not advisable for ppl.  Just normal exercises will do.

[21/3/24, 12:26:19 AM] Soh Wei Yu: i see..

[21/3/24, 12:26:47 AM] John Tan: I dun advice ppl to practice that way.

[21/3/24, 12:26:57 AM] Soh Wei Yu: oic..

[21/3/24, 12:27:38 AM] John Tan: But for u, u need to discipline to do some exercises to balance over focus of radiance.

[21/3/24, 12:27:54 AM] Soh Wei Yu: ic..

[21/3/24, 12:41:27 AM] John Tan: Also u got to have clear understanding of what if one only focus on emptiness of conventional yet without any taste of radiance.

[21/3/24, 12:57:48 AM] Soh Wei Yu: then its just a cessation of concepts and reification on a mental level only right

[21/3/24, 1:02:26 AM] John Tan: Not exactly, cessation of concepts and reification  should lead to direct taste of radiance.

[21/3/24, 1:03:53 AM] John Tan: More like non-attachment due to seeing through, what will experience be like?  Go sleep.

[21/3/24, 2:07:57 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Hmm.. more like a mental release i think. But it will still be inferential understanding of emptiness rather than a sort of realising of our nature isnt it

[21/3/24, 2:08:02 PM] Soh Wei Yu: https://youtu.be/f8y0QKXZGHs?si=o26rUnamdVvBwCgC

[21/3/24, 2:08:20 PM] Soh Wei Yu: First thirty minutes talk about anatta, emptiness, hinayana vs mahayana vs brahman


...


[21/3/24, 9:57:12 PM] Soh Wei Yu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=oXi_WOnOLmE

[22/3/24, 12:57:56 AM] Soh Wei Yu: im going to Taiwan tmr lol

[22/3/24, 12:57:56 AM] Soh Wei Yu: sat and sunday will be at his monastery for short retreat

[22/3/24, 8:04:55 AM] John Tan: 👍

[22/3/24, 8:09:47 AM] John Tan: 👍

[22/3/24, 8:30:46 AM] John Tan: Yes quite good.


....


[22/3/24, 8:36:38 AM] John Tan: This is like the question I asked u yesterday, does realizing emptiness of conventional lead to authentication of one's radiance?

[22/3/24, 8:51:39 AM] Soh Wei Yu: So in his case his is from realizing emptiness of the conventional leading to authentication of radiance?

[22/3/24, 8:52:35 AM] Soh Wei Yu: I would say.. If one can truly see through the conventional subject action object structure, it will lead to authenticating radiance as appearance

[22/3/24, 8:56:12 AM] John Tan: Not exactly.  Rather from realizing emptiness of conventional into spontaneous perfection and self liberation.

[22/3/24, 8:58:19 AM] John Tan: That is what I said yesterday, it is not possible to see through "reification" and not recognize appearances as one's radiance.


But one can keep practicing penetrating emptiness of the conventional and not authenticate radiance.  During this intermediate phase, what is it like is my question to u yesterday.

‎[22/3/24, 8:59:22 AM] John Tan: ‎image omitted

[22/3/24, 8:59:25 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic.. hmm like first stanza of anatta without going into second?

[22/3/24, 9:01:04 AM] John Tan: Something like that.  So u need to know the emptiness 法门 (Soh: the dharma door of emptiness), radiance 法门 (Soh: the dharma door of radiance) and then 大圆满 (Soh: great perfection/spontaneous perfection).

[22/3/24, 9:03:52 AM] John Tan: Actually no matter which path when practice with the right understanding can lead to self liberation if we have the right understanding and view from start.


However during the journey, practitioners need more season practitioners to point out to them what they lack.

[22/3/24, 9:04:23 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..

[22/3/24, 9:05:09 AM] John Tan: That is y u need to know clearly, the intermediate phase if without authentication of radiance or radiance without understanding emptiness of phenomena.


...


[22/3/24, 9:12:22 AM] John Tan: Yes because u start from I M to the recognition of appearances as radiance clarity but lack direct insight of how emptiness of conventional can equally lead to that.  


That is y I m now trying to lead u to see that from all those questionings.

[22/3/24, 9:14:20 AM] John Tan: It is not that "emptiness" alone cannot lead to authentication of radiance, it will but only at the mature phase.

[22/3/24, 9:15:06 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..

[22/3/24, 9:15:58 AM] John Tan: However for those that can see and understand it and skewed towards 顽空 then pointing radiance is necessary.

[22/3/24, 9:17:06 AM] John Tan: Actually the 7 phases of insights r quite complete already, just need to refine proper wordings and explanations.


...


John Tan:



“Should be recognition of radiance clarity is implied and naturally realized.


The recognition should be directly into realizing appearances as empty clarity therefore both 能所双亡 (ChatGPT translate: both subject and object are not found) as both are merely conventionally designated and dependently arise.


As 五祖 (ChatGPT translate: the Fifth Patriarch) told 慧能 (ChatGPT translate: Huineng), 不识本心 学法无益 (ChatGPT translate: Not knowing the original mind, learning the Dharma is of no benefit). Like 10 ox herding pictures, 能所双亡 (ChatGPT translate: both subject and object are not found) comes at a later phase.


Even when clarity is authenticated, still one got to differentiate between no-mind and anatta. Then "I" as reified construct and extend to phenomena to realized primodial purity of one's mind.”


"This.  He already clearly implied radiance in emptiness."




——







As John Tan said before,


“When we authenticate radiance clarity directly, we have a first hand experiential taste of what is called the "ultimate free from all conceptual elaborations" but mind is not "free from conceptual elaborations".”




Wrote some time back:


Seeing selfness or cognizance as a subject and phenomena as objects is the fundamental elaboration that prevents the taste of appearances as radiance clarity.. then even after anatta, there are still the subtle cognitive obscurations that reified phenomena, arising and ceasing, substantial cause and effect, inherent production and so on.


So elaboration is not just coarse thinking like labelling but to me is like a veil of reification projecting and distorting radiant appearances and its nature.


Another way to put it is that the fundamental conceptual elaboration that obscures reality/suchness is to reify self and phenomena in terms of the extremes of existence and non existence through not apprehending the nature of mind/appearance.


….


If you mean just authenticate radiance clarity like I AM, then it’s just nonconceptual taste and realisation of presence.


That moment is nondual and nonconceptual and unfabricated but it doesnt mean the view of inherency is seen through. Since fundamental ignorance is untouched the radiance will continue to be distorted into a subject and object.

 “Cause and effort are conventional so they are of course illusory.  But only in the eyes of (Soh: unawakened) sentient beings, illusory are unimportant and have no consequences.”


- John Tan

I would like to thank Cao Khan and Vu Huy Le for offering to help with the translation and ammendments of the Thusness Seven Stages of Enlightenment article in Vietnamese and On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection article in Vietnamese. Cao Khanh had a breakthrough shortly after helping with the translation while reading the book that Yin Ling and I recommended: Cracking the Walnut: Understanding the Dialectics of Nagarjuna by Thich Nhat Hanh https://www.amazon.com/Cracking-Walnut-Understanding-Dialectics-Nagarjuna-ebook/dp/B0BKKR3N74/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3GY6R5K9F7ZCF


I recommend the book by Thich Nhat Hanh above as an introduction to Nagarjuna's teaching and found it quite accessible for beginners.

Another good beginner book to Madhyamaka is How to See Yourself As You Really Are by the Dalai Lama: https://www.amazon.com.au/How-See-Yourself-You-Really/dp/0743290453/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.W4OQeCmEgwQUBmvVBERo7uDFxQwdFP_x3jd9lDpOW70exXT17ayTLA9gyu4K4FRF.r9TVFi5KTJ62Ic8lnfSgyUvfx6IQqDT3t0yh1T14VAQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=how+to+see+yourself+as+you+really+are&qid=1710781621&s=books&sr=1-1

Wrote to someone who insists that luminosity is the reality of all appearances:


In Buddhism, as taught in Prajnaparamita and MMK, all the way to Dzogchen, there is no reality.


As Krodha (https://www.reddit.com/user/krodha/) explained:


Gnas lugs med pa (there is no reality).


——


The ultimate is only the lack of reality of the conventional, that is the inseparability of the two truths.


Mind is empty so it’s “reality” is negated. Same with the external world. The mind and the external world are only valid conventionally, which according to Candrakīrti, means the mind and the world are nominal imputations which capture the consistency of a deluded cognition.


Hence the Tibetan saying gnas lugs med pa “there is no reality.”



——


John tan also wrote before:


"Realness" as in the taste of incredible vividness, clear, lurid appearances.  However it is the taste of crystal, vividness but realising it is nothing "real" that is most interesting.  Empty of essence, luminous by nature is magic of wonderous manifestions and spontaneous perfection.


Nevertheless, if "realness" leads to total openness in authenticating sensations, colors, taste, smell...etc...then by all means...🤣


One is seeing through reification of constructs, the other is the experiential taste of empty and non-arising of what appears.


Tasting  the "realness" of what appears and what appears is nothing real r two different insights.  I wrote these b4.



It is not only realising mere appearances r just one's radiance clarity but empty clarity is like that...like a 🌈.  Beautiful and clearly appears, but nothing "there" at all.  These 2 aspects r very important.  


1.  Very "vivid", pellucid

2.  Nothing real


Tasting either one will not trigger the "aha" realization.




——



Someone asked: if not solipsism, then you seem to be advocating nihilism - nothing exists. is that correct?


Krodha replied:


Typically in buddhadharma, a view of nihilism (ucceda) is one that negates conventional entities. I am not negating conventional entities.


In terms of things existing, I defer to Buddhapalita who said "we are not making claims of nonexistence, but rather, we are refuting claims for existing existents."


Generally, the "nonexistence" we are avoiding in terms of the classical tetralemma is an entity that previously existed, has ceased to exist, and now is nonexistent. That type of nonexistence is refuted, because it necessitates an entity that existed previously. In emptiness however, we are challenging the validity of the entity in question from the very beginning, and therefore come to realize that the entity in question is ultimately free from the four extremes of (i) existence, (ii) nonexistence, (iii) both, and (iv) neither. Traditionally these four positions were respectively directed at eternalists, nihilists, Jains and sophists of various kinds, but in general we can simply see them as four possibilities in terms of ontological status.


If the entity cannot be found, then there is no entity to conform to one of these "extremes." Now, in Mahayana, the implications or consequences of this are sort of taken to their limit, especially in terms of understanding the negation of existence. If the existence of something is refuted, then such a thing cannot truly be said to exist. Some of these sutras are quite comfortable stating that phenomena ultimately do not exist for this reason, but only because the phenomena in question cannot be verified or found when sought after.


Which is all to say that this issue is not so cut and dry, and I am not out to simply make coarse assertions without taking this subtle aspects of the teaching into question.


But in some senses, yes, what can be said to exist? We can certainly say that phenomena have a conventional status, and we would say they "exist" conventionally, or "don't exist" conventionally. For instance, the moon "exists" certainly. But two moons "do not exist." This is addressing existence and nonexistence on the level of convention. Then, when emptiness comes into play, we have to understand that we are challenging the ontological status of the entities that convention infers. Is the moon truly (ultimately) an established entity? This is what emptiness is investigating, and as a rule of thumb, the conclusion that we come to is no, an entity like the moon is not an entity that can be found when sought, for it cannot withstand "keen" scrutiny. That being the case, the true existence of the moon is then brought into question, or rather, outright negated in the view of emptiness. Sure, the moon appears, yes, the basis of designation, the bundle of sensory appearances, is certainly there, but does that bundle contain or create an entity? Is there a core entity, a svabhava, made-by or found inside that bundle of appearances? These teachings say no, and in the end we are left with an appearance of something that isn't actually there. What would one call an appearance of something that isn't actually there? An illusion. But this is all just intellectual, and this matter is not intended to be an intellectual exercise, or at least not solely. The point is to actually realize this experientially, and that is where the liberating, "soteriological" value is derived from.


u/jozzb



——


There is no reality, also no brahman and this is not nihilism in buddhism. 


Everything seen and heard are luminous and vivid, but are only med par gsal snang a “nonexistent clear appearance” or a “clearly apparent nonexistent,” with no seer, no seeing and nothing seen



Completely equivalent to the eight examples of illusions


https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Eight_similes_of_illusion


Eight similes of illusion

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The eight similes of illusion (Tib. སྒྱུ་མའི་དཔེ་བརྒྱད་, gyumé pé gyé, Wyl. sgyu ma'i dpe brgyad) are (in the order in which they appear in Longchenpa's Finding Comfort and Ease in the Illusoriness of Things):

Dream: like a dream, objects perceived with the five senses are not there, but they appear through delusion

Magical illusion: like a magic illusion, things are made to appear due to the temporary coming together of causes and conditions

Hallucination or trompe-l'oeil: like a hallucination, things appear, yet there is nothing there

Mirage: like a mirage, things appear, but they are not real

Echo: like an echo, things can be perceived, but there is nothing there, either inside or outside

City of gandharvas: like a city of gandharvas, there is neither a dwelling nor anyone to dwell

Reflection: like a reflection, things appear, but have no reality of their own

Apparition: like an apparition, there are different types of appearances, but they are not really there




——



In buddhism, everything is illusory, including and up to nirvana (cessation of delusion and suffering).


As the prajnaparamita sutras state:


“"Nirvāṇa is an illusion. Even if there is anything greater than Nirvāṇa, that too will be only an illusion.”


— https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/the-concept-of-sunyata-in-mahayana.html




——


2013:


John Tan Haha Jackson, u never give up. 


This heart is the "space" of where, the "time" of when and the "I" of who. 


In hearing, it's that "sound".


In seeing, it's that "scenery".


In thinking, it is that "eureka"!


In snapping a finger, it is seizing the whole entire moment of that instantaneous "snapping".


Just marvelous such as it is on the fly.


So no "it" but thoroughly empty. 


To u this "heart" is most real, to dzogchen it is illusory. Though illusory, it is fully vivid and brilliance. Since it is illusory, it nvr really truly arise. There is genuine "treasure" in the illusory. 


I think Kyle has a lot points to share. Do unblock him. 


Nice chat And happy journey jax!


Gone!




——


No


Emptiness is not some inherently existing reality.


Like i shared this before:


All Things Have One Nature, That Is, No Nature

Friends


John Tan and I like this excerpt.


John Tan:


“I really like this article from Jay Garfield expressing "emptiness of emptiness" as:


1. The everydayness of everyday.


2. Penetrating to the depth of being, we find ourselves back to the surface of things.


3. There is nothing after all beneath these deceptive surfaces.


Also concisely and precisely expressed the key insight of anatta in ATR.”


“That is what I always thought is the key insight of Tsongkhapa also. Like the phases of insights in ATR through contemplating no-self (a negation), one directly and non-dually tastes the vivid appearances.”


The excerpt:


“Now, since all things are empty, all things lack any ultimate nature, and this is a characterization of what things are like from the ultimate perspective. Thus, ultimately, things are empty. But emptiness is, by definition, the lack of any essence or ultimate nature. Nature, or essence, is just what empty things are empty of. Hence, ultimately, things must lack emptiness. To be ultimately empty is, ultimately, to lack emptiness. In other words, emptiness is the nature of all things; by virtue of this they have no nature, not even emptiness. As Nagarjuna puts it in his autocommentary to the Vigrahavyavartanı, quoting lines from the Astasahasrika-prajnaparamita-sutra: ‘‘All things have one nature, that is, no nature.’’


Nagarjuna’s enterprise is one of fundamental ontology, and the conclusion he comes to is that fundamental ontology is impossible. But that is a fundamentally ontological conclusion—and that is the paradox. There is no way that things are ultimately, not even that way. The Indo-Tibetan tradition, following the Vimalakırtinirdesa-sutra, hence repeatedly advises one to learn to ‘‘tolerate the groundlessness of things.’’ The emptiness of emptiness is the fact that not even emptiness exists ultimately, that it is also dependent, conventional, nominal, and, in the end, that it is just the everydayness of the everyday. Penetrating to the depths of being, we find ourselves back on the surface of things, and so discover that there is nothing, after all, beneath these deceptive surfaces. Moreover, what is deceptive about them is simply the fact that we take there to be ontological depths lurking just beneath.”


Jay Garfield & Graham Priest, in "Nagarjuna and the limits of thought"


(Source of text: https://app.box.com/s/ne0b0wwismozwkftpe1h3tx4ew7mi9gn)”