Showing posts with label Self. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Self. Show all posts

 

    Newbie questions...
    Hi all, thanks for all the resources and pointers that are available here. After months of study I have become determined to meditate to get results. I’ve mostly studied advaita vedanta but I've also read Angelo’s book and watched a lot of his videos. I went from being unable to meditate to to 3.5 hours yesterday and today so far I've done 3 hours with the longest sitting being 1 hour 28 minutes but the pain was unbearable so I stopped. I sit on a stool as sitting on the floor isn't possible yet. I am determined to sit for as many hours as I possibly can each day (even the whole day if I can overcome the pain) and thought I should post for advice just to make sure I’m going in the right direction
    I’m using the below guided meditations and wondered if anyone had any thoughts on them or if there is a better guided meditation out there?
    I’ve managed to be able to follow the breath without much mind wandering so I thought I would do some inquiry…So I asked “who am I?”But stopped because the question just seemed like more thought (mind talk). My understanding is that awareness is left when there are no thoughts? I’ve read about turning awareness back on itself… I had no idea how to do this although i tried.
    Any advice from more experienced people would be greatly appreciated. Realisation/awakening is my main objective in life now so I’m throwing everything at it. I’m open to any suggestions, pointers, advice…
    The other thing I’ve been wondering is how important it is to have a guru? In advaita vedanta they teach that it’s very important. With all the info available online today I wasn’t sure that having a guru is still necessary? Would a guru be able to transmit or impart some shakti or anything else that would help?
    Thanks anyone for any advice, links, pointers 😉
    21 Comments

  • Soh Wei Yu
    Welcome.
    Perhaps switching your koan to either of these can help:
    1) “Before thinking, what am I?”
    2) Without thoughts, tell me what is your very mind right now?
    Also:
    Soh's translation:
    Yuan Yin Lao Ren:
    In the past there was a Master who contemplated, "what is the original face before my parents were born?" He contemplated for many years, but did not awaken. Later on he encountered a great noble person and requested for his compassionate guidance. The noble one asked: "What koan did you contemplate?" He replied: "I contemplated what is the original face before my parents were born?" Noble one replied: "You contemplated too far away, should look nearby." He asked: "How should I look nearby?" Noble one replied: "Don't look into what is before your parents were born, need to look at: before a thought arise, what is it?" The Zen practitioner immediately attained great awakening.
    Everyone that is sitting here, please look at what is this before a moment of thought's arising? IT is radiating light in front of everybody's [sense] doors, the brightness radiates everything yet is without the slightest clinging, nothing is known and nothing is seen yet it is not similar to wood and stones, what is This? IT is right here shining in its brilliancy, this is awakening to the Way. Therefore it is said, "the great way is not difficult, just cease speech and words"!
    What is your very Mind right now?
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    What is your very Mind right now?
    What is your very Mind right now?

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    Richard Macilwaine
    Soh Wei Yu Thank you. I had read this before on your site 😉 But If I'm in meditation and no thoughts arising then suddenly I say "Before thinking what am I?" should I expect an answer? How long should I wait before repeating the question? Is there supposed to be some emotions with this question? Thank you very much


    Soh Wei Yu
    Richard Macilwaine The only real answer that satisfies is the non-conceptual certainty of Beingness. It is the Beingness, the pure sense of your own Existence itself that carries with it a quality of total certainty and doubtlessness, not any other thoughts, concepts, emotions, and so on.
    Let it be a natural process of inquiry into the deepest source of your Being. There is no need to fabricate the inquiry too much by scripting it with thoughts like "every minute, ask myself, who am I again..." just let it be a spontaneous and earnest inquiry to find out what exactly you are from the deepest depth of your being. A deep yearning to discover who you really are.. this deep yearning will carry your inquiry not only in formal meditation but into your daily life whenever you can or can remember, and for some people even into sleep (although I didn't inquire in sleep back then).
    “Something I always say when you are doing self enquiry or any other contemplations and meditations, this is crucial:
    "We think it's all about like, again, because of our modern mind, we almost think everything can be solved through some sort of technology. Right, oh, I just need to do it different, there must be some secret trick to inquiry, that's our technological mind-set. Sometimes that's a mindset that is very useful to us. But, we don't want to let that dominate our spirituality. Because as I witnessed, the intensity of the living inquiry that's more important than all the techniques.
    When somebody Just Has To Know. Even if that's kind of driving them half crazy for a while. And, that attitude is as important or more important than all the ways we work with that attitude, you know, the spiritual practices, the meditations and various inquiries and various different things, sort of practices. If we engage in the practices because they are practices, you know like, ok I just do these because this is what I'm told to do, and hopefully it will have some good effect. That's different than being engaged, when you're actually being deeply interested in what you're inquiring about, and what you're actually meditating upon. It's that quality of real, actual interest, something even more than interest. It is a kind of compulsion, I know I was saying earlier don't get taken in by compulsion, but there is/can be a kind of compulsion. And that's as valuable as anything else going on in you, actually."
    - Adyashanti
    This is related to Zen's great doubt, great faith and great perseverance. Especially the aspect of Great Doubt.” – Soh, 2020


  • Soh Wei Yu
    Richard Macilwaine An excerpt from the AtR guide:
    "I can’t explain it but am taking it as a sign that “my” awareness really wants to know itself 🤔"
    Soh: this is important and good, this means you are ready to do self enquiry. doing koan or self enquiry without that 疑情 (sensation of doubt) is not going to be effective, because it ends up like mantra chanting "who am i... who am i". hsu yun's articles are good as it is about self enquiry. it says if you are just chanting who am i like a mantra, then it is actually more meritorious to chant amitabha buddha's name instead
    but since you are enquiring with real 疑情 (sensation of doubt) it is genuine self enquiry
    In zen it is said great doubt, great awakenining. small doubt, small awakening. no doubt, no awakening.
    the problem with most people doing self enquiry or koan is that they lack that attitude or requisite... great doubt, great faith and great preserverence
    these three elements are sufficient
    Absolutely essential for those practicing self-inquiry:
    Great Faith, Great Doubt
    On the pull between faith and doubt that can spark awakening - by a Zen teacher
    Most of the work in Zen practice takes place while sitting zazen
    because, in reality,
    there’s nothing anyone can give us.
    There’s nothing that we lack;
    each one of us is perfect and complete.
    That’s why it is said that
    there are no Zen teachers and nothing to teach.
    But this truth must be realized by each one of us.
    Great faith, great doubt, and great determination
    are three essentials for that realization.
    Great faith is the boundless faith in oneself and
    in one's ability to realize oneself and make oneself free;
    great doubt is the deep and penetrating doubt that asks:
    Who am I?
    What is life?
    What is truth?
    What is God?
    What is reality?
    Great faith and great doubt are in dynamic tension with each other;
    they work to provide the real cutting edge of koan practice.
    When great faith and great doubt are also accompanied by great determination --
    the determination of “seven times knocked down, eight times up” --
    we have at our disposal the power necessary
    to break through our delusive way of thinking
    and realize the full potential of our lives.
    ~ John Daido Loori” - Soh’s E-Journal, 2011 http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../my-e-booke...
    KIRTIMUKHA.COM
    Great Faith
    Great Faith

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  • Adyashanti - Meditative Self-Inquiry (part 1)
    YOUTUBE.COM
    Adyashanti - Meditative Self-Inquiry (part 1)
    Adyashanti - Meditative Self-Inquiry (part 1)

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  • Soh Wei Yu
    Richard Macilwaine ""Before thinking what am I?"" --> you don't need to verbally recite this like a mantra.
    The point is to explore, investigate in your being, what you truly are before thoughts. Look, find out, discover.












  • Soh Wei Yu
    Your earnestness to practice and inquire and self-realize is commendable and important. Keep it up.
    A face to face meeting with a teacher and receiving pointers and guidance can be of help.
    (i dont agree with the downplaying of the importance of practice and meditation by this teacher though)
    Awakening to the Natural State: Guest Teaching by John Wheeler - Awakening Clarity Now by Fred Davis
    AWAKENINGCLARITYNOW.COM
    Awakening to the Natural State: Guest Teaching by John Wheeler - Awakening Clarity Now by Fred Davis
    Awakening to the Natural State: Guest Teaching by John Wheeler - Awakening Clarity Now by Fred Davis

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  • Soh Wei Yu
    But your sitting should be comfortable and relaxed. As much as possible. Get your postures right

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    Douglas MacRae Smith
    Also getting up and walking around a bit can be helpful : for alleviating unhealthy effects of physical immobility, and integrating movement with choicelessness. (may we all be forever newbies)

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    Douglas MacRae Smith
    PS - if you are a young healthy person, the fear of physical pain from sitting in weird cross legged postures, can be a way into psychological death (aka death of self) - are you willing to die or are you trying to become a better you?

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  • Soh Wei Yu
    Yes indeed. My experience of zazen at the australian open way zen temple was like 45 minutes sitting meditation then 15 walking meditation then 30 sitting meditation i think.

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  • Richard Macilwaine
    Douglas MacRae Smith Great pointer. I was actually trying to force my body to get used to the discomfort! Like a body builder forces himself to lift another rep despite having almost no power to do so. But, if it's ok to get up and stretch, I'll do that 🙂


  • Richard Macilwaine
    Douglas MacRae Smith I'm entirely willing to die. How can fear of physical pain from sitting in weird cross legged postures, be a way into psychological death?
    This morning when I sat for hour and 28 minutes, the pain was great! But it was in the morning so I had more will power and determination.


  • Douglas MacRae Smith
    Richard Macilwaine Will power and determination is the continuation of self. (aka knowledge and desire - need of the self to progress/security/power). You will know immediately when the self is totally seen & denied (especially in the face of pain)

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  • Geoffrey Levens
    Douglas MacRae Smith It is also quite possible to do permanent damage to your body by forcing a particular positions because others say it's "right". I know several people who blew out knee ligaments in just that way.
    Not the end of the world and yes, the body is just an illusion and all that. BUT it's also more difficult to practice if you are in chronic physical pain. Ayurveda was originally developed so that people could be more free from physical distress and survival fears and be able to attend to spiritual practice more easily.
    And though for some, Awakening comes pretty quickly, there are many, like me, who must "work at it" for most of a lifetime to find even noticeable progress. Anyone can tolerate some pain for a week or a month. Can you continue for 50 years?


  • Douglas MacRae Smith
    Geoffrey Levens Just in case anyone thinks there is some magical power in the posture itself : thats not what I'm saying. Nor am I denying the evolutionary usefulness of pain as a survival mechanism - I am talking about the relationship between fear, self and progress. Also that the ending of fear/self & pain are simultaneous and instantaneous. And arise through insight, not accumulation.

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  • Richard Macilwaine
    Douglas MacRae Smith would you mind sharing more about this relationship between fear, self and progress?








  • Soh Wei Yu
    Here is a quote from AtR guide:
    Begin by investigating this sense of existence, this sense of being. What is it? Who am I? This is not meant to be verbally or mentally recited (as Self-Inquiry teacher Zen/Ch'an Master Hsu Yun says, if you want to chant, chanting the name of Amitabha Buddha wholeheartedly will be more meritorious than chanting Who am I? or Who is chanting Buddha?), nor should it be an intellectual inquiry by engaging the mind in concepts to figure things out. No. Rather it is a non-conceptual and non-verbal exploration, investigation, examination of this sense of Presence, what is this Self, what is true, beyond all thoughts and conceptualizations and images we have about who I am. Your conceptualizing mind needs to calm down for true insight to arise (but calmness alone does not result in insight - inquiry does). The inquiry 'Who am I' is a tool to turn the attention inward, to turn the light around and investigate our essential being so that direct realization of this 'I', Beingness, AMness can occur.
    Keep inquiring in that manner until unshakeable conviction arises through a sudden illumination: the undoubtable sense that I AM, which is beyond all thoughts and concepts - this undeniable, undoubtable sense of presence and existence that is at the same time aware and knows itself and aware of everything. It is both present, and aware. As I wrote: You Are That Knowing which is certain that You Are! The distinction between knower, knowing, and known dissolve into That. You Are That!
    After this realization, your understanding of spirituality will not remain intellectual/conceptual.


  • Yin Ling
    Glad to see ur enthusiasm ! At first it is normal for us to want to strive hard and push our body and mind through..
    But after awhile I realise it is the consistency and the willingness to play the long game that makes a huge difference as it takes a lot of time to transform our body and mind.
    It is great to put urself through a “retreat” level intensity once in awhile.. but do think about how to play this game for years and years.
    To be able to sit 2 hours a day for the next 5-10/20 years would be the kind of game we play in dhamma haha
    Hard striving from my xp can cause a lot of side effects so do take care when things get abit much.
    Enjoy ur journey!!


  • Lowell Arye
    Richard Macilwaine, if one wishes to sit for hours, recommend developing calm abiding and equanimity through Shamatha. I generally sit for 90 minutes upwards of 3 plus hours. This will also support one during insight (vipassana) as well. When one is doing self-inquiry it is used to rest into Presence/Suchness. Sink back into the question. 🙏


  • Angelo Grr
    Love the dedication to waking up! A lot of good pointers here, just wanted to offer encouragement. Be patient , but willing to penetrate this instant,letting go of everything as you ride the carrier wave of whatever inquiry question or even bare intuition that feels most relevant. Let go of all contexts, frameworks, judging progress, and just give yourself fully 🙂

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