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Is I AMness stream entry?
- Soh Wei YuAdminNo, stream entry as defined in the suttas is not the first awakening (I AM).It is the realisation of no self and conditionalityThe reddit post is of such importance (due to a very common misunderstanding about what stream entry means) that my mentor Thusness told me to place it at the top of the reading list in my Awakening to Reality blog
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Diederik van der Boor
Author
Soh Wei Yu Thank you for these extensive pointers.
I'm
still slightly tripped by the terminology still because the Reddit post
also mentions "stream-Entry (first Bodhi/awakening)", which would again
suggest the equivalence with kensho/satori. I hope to get a sense of whether people talk of the same thing, or completely speak of different things while thinking they are the same.
For
me, no-self is a much deeper stage of awakening, and I AM not as the
first one. I'm lookin from the perspective of: first awakening ->
finding emptyness in all forms -> finding awareness/fullness in
everything (I AM?) -> taking that deeper -> no-self -> beyond
original dualty of phenomena/awareness -> beyond mystery ->
finding Divinity in everything
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
Diederik van der Boor
If you go by Theravada path, you don't have to go through the I AM. I
AM is only practiced and realised by the Thai forest Theravadins. The
Mahasi path does not go through I AM. Daniel Ingram did not go through I
AM before his anatta realization, which
unfortunately he inaccurately (scripturally speaking) placed it as
arahantship (4th path). It should accurately be called stream entry
instead.
Daniel's
definition of 1st and 2nd path (I just called them MCTB 1st/2nd/3rd/4th
path but I don't agree they line up with the scriptures or Buddha's
teachings) are just blip outs. Cessations. They don't have anything to
do with I AM either (they are not for example, Nirvikalpa samadhi where
mental-sensory perceptions blank out into an absorption in pure
Presence/Beingness) But still they are mundane samadhis actually, it is
not nirvana (although modern practitioners, some of them made this
mistaken of equating these mundane blip outs with nirvana), they are not
the real stream entry, they do not produce a quantum leap of perception
that affects day to day life in very much the same way as a real
nondual awakening, no-self awakening, or even an I AM awakening does. Yin Ling can tell you about this because she went through the Mahasi path.
O
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
Furthermore,
even in for example, the Mahamudra and Dzogchen path, the way they
present things are very similar to what I said. Will elaborate in the
next post
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
But
basically, I have read thousands of pages of pali suttas (I read it
after Bahiya Sutta, a pali sutta text, led to my realization of
anatman/no-self proper in October 2010), during 2010 to 2012, and I am
confident of my understanding. Buddha never led
anyone to I AM and called it stream entry or defined it in any way like
that. But he did clearly go through I AM from his Samkhya teachers (and
was dissatisfied with his attainments, left and attained awakening on
his own under the bodhi tree later), it just wasn't placed as a
supramundane path for his followers. He was always adamant about
overcoming the myriad views of self (including being a watcher, the
Samkhya/Vedantic's infinite self, and so on), and the elimination of all
such views of self through direct experiential insight, that is stream
entry. I elaborated with scriptural quotations in http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../anatta-not-self-or... and also you can read more about it in Geoff's well written articles like http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.au/.../great...
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Anatta: Not-Self or No-Self?
Yin Ling
Soh Wei Yu nothing to add to your comment.
Blipping
out or cessation is Nothing to shout home about. There’s no insight in
that. It’s just how mind works. I blip out a lot involuntarily, it feels
good but that’s all lol. Some ppl can induce it. But the duality I’m
not broken. Very far from stream entry.
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
ok.. now about the Mahamudra and Dzogchen path.
The
first bhumi (also known as Mahayana stream entry), universally defined
as the moment where one has the direct experiential realization of
emptiness, that is defined by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal in his book (very
highly recommended reading -- clarifying the natural state, see -- you
can get the book at $1.25 http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../some-book... )
Dakpo
Tashi Namgyal equates the beginning of the yoga of one taste with the
path of seeing, the first bhumi. Some Mahamudra teachers define first
bhumi as a certain stage within the yoga of simplicity (which some also
define it as seeing through the emptiness of subject-action-object).
Maps and definitions may differ slightly according to different
teachers. But I tend to like Dakpo Tashi's mapping. In any case, all
agree that the first bhumi is directly correlated with the realization
of emptiness, the seeing through of the
seer-seeing-seen/subject-action-object construct, it also corresponds to
the realising of non-arising of mind and phenomena (the empty nature of
mind and phenomena). Furthermore, none of the Mahamudra teachers would
equate the first yoga of one pointedness, with first bhumi.
And yet, it is clearly this very first yoga of one pointedness that is where the so called 'first awakening' or the I AM is at.
How do I know? These quotes are crystal clear: "You have seen the essence of One-Pointedness if you
have reached a naturally knowing and confident certainty
in your mind's aware emptiness. You have not seen the
essence if you do not possess this confident certitude, even
if you can remain in the states of bliss, clarity and nonthought." - Dakpo Tashi Namgyal, Clarifying the Natural State
In
other books by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal, it is also mentioned somewhere that
the earlier yoga of one pointedness is where the characteristic of
luminous clarity of one's essence is discovered (this corresponds to the
so called I AM). Whereas emptiness (which includes no-self) is only
realised in the later yogas.
Likewise,
other teachers like Khamtrul Rinpoche, Tsoknyi Rinpoche also made a
distinction between the beginner's vipashyana or 'baby rigpa' from the
real matured or 'fruitional' vipashyana and rigpa.
"At that point, is the observer—awareness—other than the
observed—stillness and movement—or is it actually that stillness and
movement itself? By investigating with the gaze of your own awareness,
you come to understand that that which is investigating itself is also
no other than stillness and movement. Once this happens you will
experience lucid emptiness as the naturally luminous self-knowing
awareness. Ultimately, whether we say nature and radiance, undesirable
and antidote, observer and observed, mindfulness and thoughts, stillness
and movement, etc., you should know that the terms of each pair are no
different from one another; by receiving the blessing of the guru,
properly ascertain that they are inseparable. Ultimately, to arrive at
the expanse free of observer and observed is the realization of the true
meaning and the culmination of all analyses. This is called “the view
transcending concepts,” which is free of conceptualization, or “the
vajra mind view.”
"Fruition vipashyana is the correct realization of the final conviction of the nonduality of observer and observed."
- Khamtrul Rinpoche, Royal Seal of Mahamudra Part 1 http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../self-liberation-by...
.
And yet this does not mean one has ended one's path, it is just the
path of seeing to be followed by the path of meditation and non
meditation (spanning the yogas of one taste and yogas of non-meditation,
or bhumis 1 to 10/13/16)
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Some book recommendations for newcomers
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
Kyle
Dixon shared with me resources describing first bhumi years ago, "The
Daśabhūmika sūtra, and its commentary by Vasubandhu. Candrakīrti’s
Madhyamakāvatāra. The Avataṃsaka.
But I’m not sure how extensive the descriptions are. The first bhūmi is without a doubt the first instance of insight into emptiness.
Wikipedia
says “According to Tsong Khapa, first level bodhisattvas directly
understand that persons do not exist by way of their own nature. Due to
this, they overcome the false idea that the five aggregates constitute a
truly existent person. They also eliminate predispositions toward
corrupted ethics so completely that they will not arise again.[8]”
There’s no doubt this is anatta."
Also
"...The
corpus of the doctrines of Maitreya and the scriptures of the great
chariot, Asaṅga, both teach with a single intent that a person on the
ground of motivated conduct184 first understands all phenomena to be
merely mind, and then experiences that the mind has nothing to perceive.
Then, at the time of the supreme quality on the path of joining,185 one
realizes that since the perceived does not exist, neither does the
perceiver. Right after this, the truth of suchness, which is free from
dualistic fixation, is directly realized. This is said to be the
attainment of the first ground.
Duckworth, Douglas. Jamgon Mipam: His Life and Teachings (p. 151). Shambhala. Kindle Edition."
Also (notice how first bhumi is Mahamudra stream entry)
"The
Bodhisattvas on this ground have a direct realization of the
nonexistence of the self. This enables them to abandon the three
fetters: the view of the transitory composite, the belief in the
superiority of their ethical discipline, and doubt—together with all the
obscurations eliminated on the path of seeing. "
Next post: I will talk about Dzogchen
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Definition of First Bhumi, Stream Entry, Etc
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
Oh wait. Before that. I quoted fruitional vipashyana from Mahamudra but I forgot to quote 'Beginner's Vipashyana':
Now,
to what degree must vipashyana have arisen to be considered true
vipashyana? The unmistaken vipashyana that has directly realized the truth
of dharmata comes only at the time of the greater level of the yoga of
simplicity. In our case, however, we are only concerned with the
vipashyana that arises in the beginner’s mind. For instance, the first
moon of the month does not have the same function as the full moon, yet
it is still conventionally considered to be the moon. Therefore here we
are concerned with the vipashyana that includes one’s mind and the
thoughts and phenomena arising from its radiance, as discussed earlier.
All phenomena of subject and object are unoriginated, nonabiding, and
unceasing. To know this crucial point and to have the experience and
conviction born from deep within that they are devoid of true essence or
nature is what, at this point, should be defined as vipashyana. It may
happen that, for some time, vipashyana does not arise to such a degree.
However, as followers of the practice lineage, we acknowledge the
following beginner’s vipashyana. The essence of one’s mind is an
unidentifiable void; it is the primordial cognizance that has not been
fabricated. In the mind that is aware of itself and lucid by itself,
these two, void and cognizance, are inseparable. To gain the experience
that the mind has ascertained that it is so is a beginner’s vipashyana.
By sustaining just that much at the beginning, we are confident that
unmistaken vipashyana will gradually arise.
Khamtrul
Rinpoche III. The Royal Seal of Mahamudra: Volume One: A Guidebook for
the Realization of Coemergence: 1 (p. 262). Shambhala. Kindle Edition.
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
About Dzogchen: similar mappings can be found.
The
rigpa (knowledge or recognition of one's nature) that all Dzogchen
practitioners must obtain, either from the direct introduction given by
the Master (it does work that way -- someone described to me that
he had that initial first awakening just by listening and attending to
Acarya Malcolm Smith's first Dzogchen direct introduction teaching, the
first session), or if having failed, subsequently self-introduces
oneself to one's own nature through the practices of semdzins and
rushans taught by the teacher. Prior to rigpa or having that
recognition, one's Dzogchen practice has not really begun.
Yet
nobody realizes emptiness on the first introduction, unless you belong
to a special calibre that is perhaps reserved to fables and stories.
Almost
everyone goes through the phases of first recognizing the aspect of
unfabricated clarity, where the Dzogchen teacher tells you to
distinguish the reflections (phenomena) from the mirror itself, so that
you can discover that you are the mirror of instant presence. Sometimes
they even use self enquiry to discover 'Who' is that instant presence
even when all visualisations have vanished. But this is just the
beginning, the discovery of instant presence is simply the discovery of
one's unfabricated clarity, but it is the crucial first recognition of
the clarity of rigpa, but it is not the matured or ripened rigpa that
comes with the realization of emptiness or at third vision which is then
equated with the path of seeing, the first bhumi, etc. (Dzogchen's
rainbow body is the last bhumi, Buddhahood, etc) The realization of
no-self and emptiness comes later, at a very mature phase of one's
Trekcho's practice where one suddenly discovers the non-arising (empty)
nature of one's mind, and discovers one's primordial purity (Kadag). Or,
one reaches the third vision of the Thodgal practice. One simply
requires the recognition of clarity aspect of rigpa for the first two
visions.
You can read http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../the-degrees-of... -- so the specific methods and practices differ, but the progression of insight, as far as I tell, there are strong overlaps.
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The Degrees of Rigpa
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
I have attended Acarya Malcolm Smith's Dzogchen teachings and I am simply reiterating what I have learnt, as far as I can tell.
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
But
Kyle Dixon, long time student of Malcolm (and Malcolm told me in 2019
that Kyle was the first who totally understood his teachings, and also
Kyle himself has the realisation of anatman and emptiness, also see http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../advise-from-kyle_10...
), agrees with me privately that the so called I AM, or instant
presence, is similar to the initial rigpa and then the realisation of
anatman and emptiness comes later, known as the fully ripened or matured
rigpa, the rigpa of the third vision, the first bhumi, and so on.
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Advice from Kyle Dixon
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
Diederik van der Boor Also have you seen this map: http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../thusnesss-six...
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Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment
