TAKE HOLD OF IT DIRECTLY
STUDENT: I feel Mu is everything and nothing. I feel it is like a reflection of the moon on a lake, with no moon and no lake, only reflection.
ROSHI: You have a keen theoretical grasp of Mu, a clear picture of it in your mind; now you need to take hold of it directly. There is a line a famous Zen master wrote at the time he became enlightened which reads: "When I heard the temple bell ring, suddenly there was no bell and no I, just sound." In other words, he no longer was aware of a distinction between himself, the bell, the sound, and the universe. This is the state you have to reach. Don't relax-strive on!
- YASUTANI's INTERVIEWS WITH WESTERNERS
Soh's comments:

This is nice. Furthermore it is realised, in hearing sound, there is always only sound, never a hearer or hearing besides sound. This is not a state but a truth that is always already the case. And even sound is no sound, empty clarity. In the heard only the heard is no hearer, no hearing and nothing heard. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. Sound is emptiness, emptiness is sound.
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On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection
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Flowers Fall: A Commentary on Zen Master Dogen's Genjokoan
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Different Degress of No-Self: Non-Doership, Non-dual, Anatta, Total Exertion and Dealing with Pitfalls
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Jackson Peterson
Yes, the differentiating mind ceased monetarily.
Soh Wei Yu
Following
the direct realization and stabilization of that insight of anatta, the
above actualization becomes a natural effortless state.
I have not experienced the slightest trace of subject/object duality and agent-agency for the past 10+ years.
Soh Wei Yu
point
is, before the view and realisation is clear, state of no mind is a
momentary peak experience. When anatta is clear, it becomes all the time
experienced as so. No entry, no exit.
Soh Wei Yu
“Good
insight. Stability of experience has a predictable relationship with
the unfolding and deepening of insights. For example how seamless and
effortless can non-dual experience be, if in the back of one's mind,
subtle views of duality and inherency and tendencies continue to surface
and affect our moment to moment experience - for example conjuring an
unchanging source or mind that results in a perpetual tendency to sink
back and referencing experience back to a source.
For
example even after it is seen that everything is a manifestation of
awareness or mind, there might still be subtle tendencies to reference
back to a source, awareness or mind and therefore the transience is not
appreciated in full. Nondual is experienced but one sinks back into
substantial nonduality - there is always a referencing back to a base,
an "awareness" that is nevertheless inseparable from all phenomena.
If
one arises the insight that our ideas of an unchanging source,
awareness or mind is just another thought - that there is simply thought
after thought, sight after sight, sound after sound, and there isn't an
inherent or unchanging "awareness", "mind", "source". Non-dual becomes
implicit and effortless when there is the realisation that what
awareness, seeing, hearing really is, is just the seen... The heard...
The transience... The transience itself rolls and knows, no knower or
other "awareness" can be found. Like there is no river apart from
flowing, no wind apart from blowing, each noun implies its verb...
Similarly awareness is simply the process of knowing not separated from
the known. Scenery sees, music hears. Because there is nothing
unchanging, independent, ultimate apart from the transience, there is no
more sinking back to a source and instead there is full comfort resting
as the transience itself.
Lastly
do continue practicing the intensity of luminosity... When looking at
tennis ball just sense the tennis ball fully.... Without thinking of a
source, background, observer, self. Just the tennis ball as a luminous
light. When breathing... Just the breathe... When seeing scenery, just
sights, shapes and colours - intensely luminous and vivid without an
agent or observer. When hearing music... Sound of bird chirping, the
crickets… Just that - chirp chirp. A zen master noted upon his
awakening... When I am hearing the bell ringing, there is no I and no
bell... Just the ringing. The direct experiencing of no-mind and
intensity of luminosity.. This is the purpose of the practice of the
four foundations of mindfulness that is taught by the Buddha.” - Soh,
2011
Jackson Peterson
Soh Wei Yu “who” hasn’t experienced the slightest trace of atta or self?
Soh Wei Yu
When
anatta is realised, there will no more questioning about a “who” just
like when santa claus is realised to be false, there will be no more
questioning “where is the santa claus”. The entire question is just
absurd and silly. Only conventionally do we talk about selves for mere
convenience.
Carlus Sego
How to take hold of it directly? Bahiya Sutta.?
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Carlus Sego
Stanza 1&2.
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Carlus Sego
Taste and go.
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Soh Wei Yu
Yes contemplating on those will lead to the crucial breakthrough.

AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection
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Soh Wei Yu
About
my comment on Hakuun Yasutani Roshi: i do not mean to say that he only
experienced a state of no mind but haven’t realised anatta.
In his book Flowers Fall, he elucidated the view and realisation of anatta clearly.
Recommended reading for understanding Dogen’s thoughts also.

AMAZON.COM
Flowers Fall: A Commentary on Zen Master Dogen's Genjokoan
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Carlus Sego
Excellent.
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William Lim
This "truth" that is "always the case" is not obvious to 99.999% of the world.
If it is "always the case", why can't we see it?
How can you see the "truth"?
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Jackson Peterson
William Lim “who” can’t see it? Which self?
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William Lim
No
need to talk in riddles... obviously, I'm pointing to the person known
as William (the "hearer") who can't see this "truth" of "only sound"
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Soh Wei Yu
On
the why part: ignorance, which dependently originates from previous
moments of ignorance and afflictions and so on ad infinitum with no
beginning.
On the how part, I wrote in DhO two weeks ago:
“You
are only experiencing the non-doership aspect of no-self but there are
more faces of self/Self and it is not yet the realisation of anatta. See
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../different...
My suggestions on how to realize anatta:
1) Practice Vipassana according to this instruction by Daniel Ingram: https://vimeo.com/250616410
2) Read and contemplate on these two stanzas of anatta: https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../on-anatta...
3) Read and contemplate on Bahiya Sutta, the key to my own breakthrough - http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../ajahn-amaro-on... (comments section comments by PasserBy/Thusness is also great), http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../my-commentary-on... “

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Different Degress of No-Self: Non-Doership, Non-dual, Anatta, Total Exertion and Dealing with Pitfalls
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Soh Wei Yu
But i generally advise people to start from realising I AM Presence first.
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Geovani Geo
William
Lim says, "No need to talk in riddles... obviously, I'm pointing to the
person known as William (the "hearer") who can't see this "truth" of
"only sound"
The real illusion is the one pointing to William, for he feels to be the real subject able to see the person.
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Soh Wei Yu
Yes
the point is not that everyone has realised this truth. But the point
is to distinguish between a momentary peak experience of no mind and
realizing anatta as the seal that is always already so, which brings no
mind to its peak and matured natural state of effortlessness.
There
is indeed a big difference between realising and not realising anatta.
Directly realising and actualizing it puts an end to afflictions and
sufferings.
For example:
“Though
anatta is a seal [Soh: i.e. a truth that is always already so,
pertaining to the nature of mind/experience], it also requires one to
arise the insight to feel liberated. When a practitioner realizes the
anatta nature of manifestation, at that moment without the sense of
observer, there is no negative emotions. There is only vivid sensation
of all the arising as presence. When you are angry, it is a split. When
you realized its anatta nature, there is just vivid clarity of all the
bodily sensations. Even when there is an arising thought of something
bad, it dissolves with no involvement in the content [Soh: i.e. mental
contents like stories, imagination and conceptualization along with
emotional involvement]. To be angry, a 'someone' must come into the
content. When there is no involvement of the extra agent, there is only
recoiling and self liberations. One should differentiate arising thought
from the active involvement of the content a practitioner that realizes
anatta is only involved fully in the vivid presence of the action,
phenomena but not getting lost in content.” - John Tan, 2009
“Not
creating an idea of a self frees us completely from anger. You cannot
have anger unless there is a self. There is no boundless and omniscient
self somewhere in the sky that created the whole universe, and there is
no tangible and limited self that inhabits this bag of skin. All of
reality is simply infinite dharmas that arise and disappear in accord
with the laws of karma. There is not one thing standing against
another.” - Zen Master John Daido Loori
"...The
anatta definitely severed many emotional afflictions, for the most part
I don't have negative emotions anymore. And either the anatta or the
strict shamatha training has resulted in stable shamatha where thoughts
have little effect and are diminished by the force of clarity. I'm also
able to control them, stopping them for any amount of desired time etc.
But I understand that isn't what is important. Can I fully open to
whatever arises I would say yes. I understand that every instance of
experience is fully appearing to itself as the radiance of clarity, yet
timelessly disjointed and unsubstantiated.." - Kyle Dixon, 2013
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Jackson Peterson
Soh Wei Yu
yes, Kyle is fully manifesting atta as a self which has no negative
emotions etc. The egoic self is fully and alive and functioning as the
one “who” can now control “his” thoughts. Anatta hasn’t been actualized.
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Soh Wei Yu
No,
that is wrong. You do not understand Kyle’s insight and experience. But
I feel it is pointless to continue this conversation with you.
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