Posts
Why
five poisons.....why poisons at all.....aren't there schools of
Buddhism which suggest that these "poisons" are actually doors to
liberation/realization of emptiness. And (this is a rhetorical
question)....what is this obsession with numbers in formal orthodox
Buddhism...... the 5 poisons? Why not 3 1/2.....the 88 desires.....why
not 87 .....or why not only 1 (the clinging to life)? What is this
obsession Buddhism has with systemizing everything with
numbers.....(orthodox Buddhism was probalgated by men, that's
why)....... though I detest the Buddhism lite you see in bookstores, I
appreciate people like Daniel Ingram who take such rigorous
systematizing as metaphorical rather than literal (he may disagree with
me here). Or am I mistaken and Buddhism is a coherent and precise
science to liberation with quantifiable stages and steps and
hindrances......who knows?"
Soh replied:
“There
are three traditional methods of dealing with emotions: abandoning
them, transforming them, and recognizing their nature. All three levels
of Buddhist teaching, all three yanas, describe how to deal with
disturbing emotions. It is never taught, on any level, that one can be
an enlightened buddha while remaining involved in disturbing emotions -
never. Each level deals with emotions differently.
…
Just
like darkness cannot remain when the sun rises, none of the disturbing
emotions can endure within the recognition of mind nature. That is the
moment of realizing original wakefulness, and it is the same for each of
the five poisons.
…
In
any of the five disturbing emotions, we do not have to transmute the
emotion into empty cognizance. The nature of the emotion already is this
indivisible empty cognizance.” - Vajra Speech, Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
“Why would you accept afflictive emotions? They are afflictive and are the root cause of suffering.
Either
you renounce them, transform them or self-liberate them. But you
certainly don't accept them. That way just leads to further rebirth in
samsara.
M” – Dzogchen teacher Acarya Malcolm Smith
“We
do bad things, non-virtuous things, because we are afflicted.
Afflictions are never a part of oneself but they do define us as
sentient beings. If you want to stop being a sentient being and start
being an awakening being you have to deal with your afflictions via one
of three paths I mentioned.
Why
am I a sentient being and not a Buddha? Because I am subject to
afflictions. How do I become a Buddha? By overcoming afflictions and
attaining omniscience. How do I begin? By setting out on one of the
three paths, depending on my capacity.” – Dzogchen teacher Acarya
Malcolm Smith
“Mr. JK said: What you're describing is the duality found in Christianity. saying we are impure and must better ourselves.
Kyle
Dixon replied: Not at all, this is literally the teaching of Dzogchen,
Śrī Siṃha one of the original Dzogchen masters, who was Padmasambhava’s
guru, states:
This
is acceptable since a so called “primordial buddhahood” is not
asserted. Full awakening is not possible without being free of the five
afflictions... It is not possible for wisdom to increase without giving
up afflictions. Wisdom will not arise without purifying afflictions.
(Bolded and emphasized by Soh)
Likewise, Khenpo Ngachung, one of the greatest luminaries of recent times states:
In
any system of sutra or tantra, without gathering the accumulations and
purifying obscurations, Buddhahood can never be attained. Though the
system of gathering accumulations and purifying obscurations is
different, in this respect [dzogchen] is the same.
Longchenpa states:
All
phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence (ngo bo)
of mind is purified, samsara is purified... The essence of mind is an
obscuration to be given up. The essence of vidyā is pristine
consciousness (ye shes) to be attained... That being so, it is very
important to differentiate mind and pristine consciousness because all
meditation is just that: all methods of purifying vāyu and vidyā are
that; and in the end at the time of liberation, vidyā is purified of all
obscurations because it is purified of the mind.
Even Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche, Mingyur Rinpoche’s father, states:
Purification
happens through training on the path. We have strayed from the basis
and become sentient beings. To free the basis from what obscures it, we
have to train. Right now, we are on the path and have not yet attained
the result. When we are freed from obscuration, then the result -
dharmakāya - appears... the qualities of the result are contained in the
state of the basis; yet, they are not evident or manifest. That is the
difference between the basis and the result. At the time of the path, if
we do not apply effort, the result will not appear.
Thus
there is still much for you to understand about how Dzogchen actually
works. You are only speaking of the side of the nature, the state of
Dzogchen, but the side of appearances, the side of the practitioner, is
not pure and perfect just yet. The two sides meet when the practitioner
recognizes that nature, which is not presently known, and trains in the
method and view.
5” – Kyle Dixon, 2021, krodha (u/krodha) - Reddit
“Only
Buddhas rest in prajñā at all times, because they rest in “samati”
which is an unfragmented samādhi which directly cognizes the nature of
phenomena at all times.
The
rest of us do our best to cultivate concentration, dhyāna, which then
will lead to samādhi, and after time we will awaken to have the awakened
equipoise which comes about due to our samādhi being infused with
prajñā. However due to latent obscurations that awakened equipoise will
be unstable and our prajñā will be fragmented. The more we access
awakened equipoise however, the more karma in the form of kleśa and
vāsanā will be burned away, and as a result, the more obscurations will
be removed and diminished. The path is precisely eliminating those
obscurations, the afflictive obscuration that conceives of a self and
the cognitive obscuration that conceives of external objects. Buddhas
have completely eliminated these two obscurations and as a result their
samādhi is samati, a transcendent state of awakened equipoise beyond the
three times.” – Kyle Dixon, 2021
“No.
Every liberated person has realized the absence of self, i.e.,
emptiness, and in so doing, has ceased being under control of
afflictions. Degrees of liberation are determined by remainder of
afflictive obscuration one must eradicate.
Dzogchen is simply one path among many to accomplish this aim. As the Self-Arisen Vidyā Tantra states:
If someone does not dwell in words and does not dwell in names,
that is Prajñāpāramitā,
the transcendent state of buddhahood itself;
it is obtained with wisdom
and is liberated from all affliction.” – Dzogchen teacher Acarya Malcolm Smith, 2018
“No,
the difference between a buddha and and sentient beings is the presence
or absence of adventitious afflictions, as the Buddha states in the
Hevajra tantra:
Sentient beings are buddhas,
though obscured by adventitious afflictions.
When those are removed, they are buddhas.” – Dzogchen teacher Acarya Malcolm Smith, 2021
“What is the use of a realization that fails to reduce your disturbing emotions?” ~ Padmasambhava/ Guru Rinpoche
“No.
Every liberated person has realized the absence of self, i.e.,
emptiness, and in so doing, has ceased being under control of
afflictions. Degrees of liberation are determined by remainder of
afflictive obscuration one must eradicate.
Dzogchen is simply one path among many to accomplish this aim. As the Self-Arisen Vidyā Tantra states:
If someone does not dwell in words and does not dwell in names,
that is Prajñāpāramitā,
the transcendent state of buddhahood itself;
it is obtained with wisdom
and is liberated from all affliction.” – Acarya Malcolm Smith, 2018
“No,
the difference between a buddha and and sentient beings is the presence
or absence of adventitious afflictions, as the Buddha states in the
Hevajra tantra:
Sentient beings are buddhas,
though obscured by adventitious afflictions.
When those are removed, they are buddhas.” – Acarya Malcolm Smith, 2021
· Reply
· 23w
My experience is similar to Kyle Dixon:
"...The
anatta definitely severed many emotional afflictions, for the most part
I don't have negative emotions anymore. And either the anatta or the
strict shamatha training has resulted in stable shamatha where thoughts
have little effect and are diminished by the force of clarity. I'm also
able to control them, stopping them for any amount of desired time etc.
But I understand that isn't what is important. Can I fully open to
whatever arises I would say yes. I understand that every instance of
experience is fully appearing to itself as the radiance of clarity, yet
timelessly disjointed and unsubstantiated.." - Kyle Dixon, 2013
“The conditions for this subtle identification are not undone until anatta is realized.
Anatta
realization is like a massive release of prolonged tension, this is how
John put it once at least. Like a tight fist, that has been tight for
lifetimes, is suddenly relaxed. There is a great deal of power in the
event. The nature of this realization is not often described in
traditional settings, I have seen Traga Rinpoche discuss it. Jñāna is
very bright and beautiful. That brightness is traditionally the “force”
that “burns” the kleśas.
The
reservoir of traces and karmic imprints is suddenly purged by this
wonderful, violent brightness. After this occurs negative emotions are
subdued and for the most part do not manifest anymore. Although this is
contingent upon the length of time one maintains that equipoise.” - Kyle
Dixon, 2019
“Prajñā “burns” karma, only when in awakened equipoise. Regular meditation does not.” - Kyle Dixon, 2021
...
“Though
anatta is a seal [Soh: i.e. a truth that is always already so,
pertaining to the nature of mind/experience], it also requires one to
arise the insight to feel liberated. When a practitioner realizes the
anatta nature of manifestation, at that moment without the sense of
observer, there is no negative emotions. There is only vivid sensation
of all the arising as presence. When you are angry, it is a split. When
you realized its anatta nature, there is just vivid clarity of all the
bodily sensations. Even when there is an arising thought of something
bad, it dissolves with no involvement in the content [Soh: i.e. mental
contents like stories, imagination and conceptualization along with
emotional involvement]. To be angry, a 'someone' must come into the
content. When there is no involvement of the extra agent, there is only
recoiling and self liberations. One should differentiate arising thought
from the active involvement of the content a practitioner that realizes
anatta is only involved fully in the vivid presence of the action,
phenomena but not getting lost in content.” - John Tan, 2009
“Not
creating an idea of a self frees us completely from anger. You cannot
have anger unless there is a self. There is no boundless and omniscient
self somewhere in the sky that created the whole universe, and there is
no tangible and limited self that inhabits this bag of skin. All of
reality is simply infinite dharmas that arise and disappear in accord
with the laws of karma. There is not one thing standing against
another.” - Zen Master John Daido Loori
“I am only interested in the way to free from worries, fear, anger, greed and ignorance.” - John Tan, 2018
“After realization of anatta, I have found that negative emotions dissolves or are attenuated.” - Soh, 2018
Richard:
"Can you begin to imagine what it is like to live in a world without
fear, for example? It is the extinction of ‘me’ in ‘my’ entirety that
results in a total and utter dissolution of fear itself. There is no
fear here, in this actual world where I live. Not even disquietude,
uneasiness, nervousness or apprehension, let alone anxiety, angst, fear,
terror, horror or dread. There is no fear in a flower, a tree, an
ashtray, an armchair, a rock ... only sentient beings experience fear.
Fear is affective; it is an emotion, a passion, and as such is not
actual. Fear is a feeling, not a fact.
It is an eminently sensible way to live."
.....
Actual Freedom Richard:
This
is my position: we are all fellow human beings who find ourselves here
in the world as it was when we were born. We find war, murder, torture,
rape, domestic violence and corruption to be endemic ... we notice that
it is intrinsic to the human condition ... we set out to discover why
this is so. We find sadness, loneliness, sorrow, grief, depression and
suicide to be a global incidence ... and we gather that it is also
inherent to the human condition ... and we want to know why. We report
to each other as to the nature of our discoveries for we are all
well-meaning and seek to find a way out of this mess that we have landed
in. Whether one believes in re-incarnation or not, we are all living
this particular life for the very first time, and we wish to make sense
of it. It is a challenge and the adventure of a life-time to enquire and
to uncover, to seek and to find, to explore and to discover. All this
being alive business is actually happening and we are totally involved
in living it out ... whether we take the back seat or not, we are all
still doing it.
I, for one, am not taking the back seat.
