The Cure to Suffering / Degree of Actualization / Dreams and Imagination / Fearlessness
Soh

 Yin Ling wrote,


“I was a happy child. 

Had the best of everything. 

In my early teens life showed me anxiety and stress. Showed me death, illnesses. 


I didn’t understand why we have to suffer. 

I have alot of existential angst inside. 

I don’t understand why do ppl get leukemia and die. 

I wake up almost everyday with anxiety for many years. I told my friend I am dysthymic (low grade depression). 


I created a psychological barrier at work so that the cruel fact of life doesn’t come to me. 

I chose a speciality that keep me away from the cruellest. But. 

I see ppl hang themselves, and I have to resuscitate them while feeling so painful inside. 

I have to hold my tears when I break bad news. 

I see so much darkness. 

The weight of the world. 

Sometimes I couldn’t cope and I take a week off just not being at the hospital. I don’t even care for holidays. 


I thought I was in the wrong profession. 

I looked around and everyone doesn’t seem disturbed. How strange. 

Many times I wish My job is to sweep the floor like the janitor in the hospital. 


But it was all these that made me so disenchanted with cyclic existence. 

When ppl talk about a better rebirth, I shudder in fear. No I don’t want to come back pls. I don’t want to be a doctor again. I joke about this but I’m serious. 


This angst pushes me to question everything, to sit, to contemplate, to find a way out. 

To me, living like that is a joke. 

I can’t pretend the house is not burning. 


I have only one thing to solve, I want to solve existence. I don’t know how but I need to do it, like NOW. Not later, NOW. 

I want liberation from this crazy shit. 


And man, Ppl who know me know how intense I can get. I was so focus. 

I took all the energy I practised medicine to seek. 

A whole year plus of 5-7 hours of sitting meditation without a day off and another 6-8 hours of reading. Thousand of hours a year. 

I meditate more than a monk. Lol. 

I was so crazy omg. 


Then One day life showed me what I need to see. 

What a cosmic joke. Holy shit. 

I don’t know if anyone will believe what I see. 

But I understnd now, we didn’t come here to suffer. It’s all wrong, we are seeing it wrongly. 


The truth is so clear. Clearer than clear. 

It’s like suddenly seeing something in a pixelated image. Ohmygod. I will never unsee this. 

Everything adds up now. 

Now I can continue with my mundane life. 


I am not sure why I say this for. 

I know there will be another anomalous person out there like me, and they need to hear this.  

There is the truth, and we are not here to suffer. 

There is liberation. 

There is 2 parts to the noble truths, 

Don’t stop at 1 and 2. 

Look hard at 3 and 4. 

I can’t show you. I wish I can, I would show everyone. The Buddha would have, he is so compassionate. 

But when you see it, let me know, I will be so so happy for you. 

It’s the most important work in my life, and I trust it will be the same for you.”


William Lim: So how does awakening resolve your suffering, and that of others?


How does awakening resolve your anxiety? 


How do you now understand why do ppl get leukemia and die? How do you now see people who hang themselves?


Yin Ling replied:


I have never been happier. Experience is v blissful. I wake up very happy, the anxiety all gone. All experiences even sitting in the toilet is blissful. I ask JT recently, is this bliss going to go? He say nope as long as your are in touch with truth. That’s 30-40 years so I like that answer😂


I think the worldview change affect a lot. When one understnd all is dependently originated, it’s not so easy to blame and get angry. The afflictions drop. Well-being increase. Suffering probably drop from 8 to 1 for me. 


I’m gonna be torn apart with compassion if I work with leukemia patients again, but now because I don’t see self, I understnd how it is all DO, there’s no one suffering, and my compassion is for that fake person who thinks it’s happening to him. I don’t know how to word. But I don’t ask “why can have leukemia!why?!”


But I understnd it is causal, but it happens to no one. But there is someone believing it’s happening to him, so the compassion is wanting to show him it’s not like that, but that it very hard. I can’t speak for my own illness and death yet . I still hope life be gentle with me bc my realizations is not deep, I am still gonna suffer. 


For ppl who hang themselves they wanted to kil the psychological self, the fake self, it wasn’t about the body. I feel a lot for that bc I can see it’s not that way. And I have felt that pain before. But how do you tell someone? The delusion is deep, so there has to be lots of  equanimity j guess . I guess there’s less anger towards what’s happening, more compassion, and more ready to comfort at human level. 


Any suffering feels stronger with no self bc of loss of boundaries. Hence there’s a need to see emptiness and cultivate equanimity, I hope to this in my job soon. 🙂 thanks for the Q. You always push me to contemplate 🙂 so nice . Haha

 

 

 

...................

 

 

    Yin Ling
    Alamak my nonsense 😂🤦🏻‍♀️


    Soh Wei Yu
    … is impt. More ppl need to know whats possible!


    • William Lim
    The Red Pill Dispensery is open for business!









    • Soh Wei Yu
    About john tan 30-40 years:
    Its been around 38 years since he realised I AM, and he realised anatta in 1997 thats about 25 years. And then it took another 2-3 years for him to stabilize the anatta insight and experience in year 2000


    Yin Ling
    Soh Wei Yu that’s incredible.







    • Soh Wei Yu
    Once seen and stabilized its just stable and doesnt wobble. Which alone is something v incredible as daniel ingram also remarked


    Yin Ling
    Soh Wei Yu how would you know what is stabilised?
    How long did it took you ?


    • Soh Wei Yu
    Actually it took even shorter than 2-3 years for me.. but then anatta is not the end and there is then progression into total exertion and emptiness which i said was more gradual
    As for anatta: No more subject-object split or agent-action or self/Self

    • Reply
    • 1h
    • Edited

    • Yin Ling
    Soh Wei Yu 👍🏻JT told me you were unique haha.


    • Soh Wei Yu
    I cant give you exact date as my memory is murky.
    But i remember a few months down the road from initial anatta breakthrough i already thought it was pretty effortless and stable.
    Until one day i realise this subtle tendency to ground into Here/Now and reference back to mind. Took another deepening of insight into first stanza to dissolve even that subtle tendency. Thats maybe 5 months after initial insight


    • Yin Ling
    Wow 5 months is really fast! Really nice. Coz things are shifting every day seem abit differnt so hard to tell what is a mature insight.


    • Soh Wei Yu
    There is a way to measure actualization of insight. Later i write after dinner


    • Yin Ling
    Soh Wei Yu nice thanks 🙂


    • Soh Wei Yu
    Probably you already know all these but I'll just write as a sharing for others as well.
    Because insight of anatta dissolves huge chunk of self/Self and you're basically naturally so in daily waking experience.. but there is the latent deep tendencies that wouldn't surface or get triggered unless there were specific secondary conditions. So progress is always not just on the surface (that is, the consistent non-dual, centerless and boundless radiance as everything in daily living post-anatta) but also more fundamentally in the release, dissolution and liberation of the latent deep. The way to deepen is always deepening the practice in terms of the view, realization and experience.. also correlated with insight and shamatha. Yogic/energy practice can also help. There are also various kinds of psychotherapy and even shamanic, new age, and other kinds of practice that deal with latent deep and bringing them to the surface (like ways of healing deep seated trauma and so on) and so on which can help... but the way Buddhism deals with them is at a more fundamental level by undercutting the ignorance that fuels afflictions with more wisdom, vipashyana and shamatha. It has nothing to do with suppressing the tendencies when they surface but everything to do with maturing this insight of the empty and luminous nature of everything into all situations and all states so that whenever tendencies arise due to secondary conditions, they can be naturally seen in their true face or true nature and can self-liberate.
    Actually basically what John Tan said 2 days ago in the meeting... not his words as I have no recording but I just paraphrase roughly:
    1) how much you overcome your afflictions and are unperturbed by the ups and downs of life. If some situation triggers the habitual old ways of relating in terms of self and other, I-me-mine, even if momentarily, that is karmic tendencies in action.
    2) How much your wisdom has entered into the three states of not just waking, but dreaming and deep sleep.
    If you haven't already, you will eventually start to experience this equipoise seeping into sleep state.
    ..
    Back to myself (Soh) I'll give you a bit of example about the sleep part.
    Firstly, you will also notice you get lesser and lesser dreams with karmic contents. For me after anatta, I never really get nightmares anymore. It is always sweet and blissful and relaxing. But there are still karmic dreams from time to time, which means there is a story to it which are activated by the traces of the mind.
    The next step and this started maybe around 1 or 2 years after my initial anatta breakthrough... you will start to experience that same bliss of nondual clear light / radiance and transparency not only in waking but in deep sleep. At first usually it is more of a dreamless or contentless state, much like the I AM experience. In other words, just pure formless Presence. But incredibly intense and blissful, even more intense than waking experience of it. Then you realise what the Tibetans say that in the sleep and bardo state your clarity is 7 times more than normal is actually quite true, if you can experience that clear light sleep.
    Then later on you start to experience this clear light sleep even when there are subtle contents arising. For example for me I used to have sleep paralysis and when it happens, its always this feeling of doom and a sense of a intruder/monster/ghost there that is watching and causing my being stuck and unable to wake up. After anatta, each time it happens I was able to dissolve into fearless openness and bliss of clear radiance and transparency. I wrote about these in http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../fearless-samadhi.html That is how you liberate even these situations in sleep. Because if you don't have anatta insight, you will fall into self-other duality and the 'others' will 'appear as enemy' as the Tibetans put it, and that is samsara. Otherwise with insight and actualization all appearances are self-liberating as just one's empty radiance, one's own state.
    Then when you have dreams, they also start to take on the same, in fact 7 times intensity bliss and clarity of anatta.. like one day you will experience a dream, lets say you are walking down a garden... the same as you are walking down a garden in waking life. And just like in waking life anatta experience is so deeply blissful, radiant, boundless, centerless, transparent and intense... that same quality is experienced in that dream-scene except perhaps much more intense even. That is called clear light dream. That too I started experiencing about 2 years after the anatta breakthrough.
    Nowadays I seldom have memorable dreams or karmic content dreams.. but just by coincidence yesterday I did have one, and at first I noticed this slight contraction tendency but it quickly transformed into one of fearless openness. It was not a lucid dream but I felt super fearless and "come what may, so be it", then I woke up. But the fact that the traces still occur in sleep even if rarely should tell you I am still far from Buddhahood. Also with your earnestness in practice I'm also sure you will progress much faster and further than me so keep it up.
    As you know after anatta you will naturally to want to experience this fearless openness without self/Self/i-me-mine in all situations, people, events, phenomena... where there is no you facing it but the universe is meeting itself in total exertion and liberation.
    The ultimate test is of course death. Can we be liberated. I think Dalai Lama and probably many other masters said my whole practice is a preparation for death. Sort of a trial run.
    A convo between Sim Pern Chong and John Tan in 2007:
    Sim: How to experience it? Don't try to escape to anywhere or wait for some becoming. Stay 'unmoving' to the present even if it is unpleasant... and see what happens...
    John Tan: Even when fainting, when passing out, when death dawns, experience completely, experience experience! 🙂
    Sim: I sincerely hope that I can be that 'zai' at the time of death (grins)
    Fearless Samadhi
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    Fearless Samadhi
    Fearless Samadhi

  • Reply
  • Remove Preview
  • 29m
  • Edited

 




    • Yin Ling
    Super nice thanks Soh appreciate it loads.
    Definitely an extremely high standard u guys set as an example there. 👍🏻
    Will keep practising.
    Dreams completely stop after Anatta for me for past 4-5 months idk why. Only notice Sleep shortened to 5-6 hours then I automatically wake up without needing to nap. I exercise so I can sleep more😂. I needed 7-8 hours before. Since I’m not tired I just let it be, probably not stress from working too. Apart from that I never notice anything already except sleep like dead 😂


    • Soh Wei Yu
    Yin Ling That is also normal.. also do you still have capacity to visualise anything? Like imagine and have mental pictures.

  • Reply
  • 2m
  •  



      • Yin Ling
      Soh Wei Yu I’m not sure, I just tried visualising sthg, very blurry, then sensations took over , cannot stay focus for long 😂


      • Soh Wei Yu
      Yin Ling Same. After anatta, this faculty of imagination diminishes and for some even disappear completely. Same for dreams. Swapped away by the direct mode of anatta equipoise.


      • Yin Ling
      Soh Wei Yu but I realise don’t daydream anymore. Like I can sit there one hour in the park with v little thoughts, last time I daydream 💭 do this la do that la, now it’s just .. sit there mindlessly 😂


      • Yin Ling
      Soh Wei Yu oh I see. No wonder I don’t recall the past much, don’t think of future. Sometimes I get worried because I never think of my future so I set a time and sit down and make myself think of future 😂😂🤦🏻‍♀️


      • Soh Wei Yu
      Ya.. and what's the fun of daydreaming when you're living in wonderland and paradise already. Even if you can have it back, it wouldn't really interest us. Anything besides this direct mode just no longer appeal.


      • Yin Ling
      Soh Wei Yu ohh I thought it’s bec i do vipassana so much , whenever there is a thought it got catch quite fast so it didn’t have chance to proliferate. The direct mode make sense too, there’s too much sensation so no capacity to create new visuals I thjnk.

      • Reply
      • 6m
      • Edited

      • Soh Wei Yu
      I have known a few people who lost that imaginative and dream faculty even at the I AM phase

      • Reply
      • 2m
      • Edited

      • Soh Wei Yu
      What you said also makes sense

    • Reply
    • 1m
     



    • Soh Wei Yu
    What you said also makes sense


    • Yin Ling
    Soh Wei Yu you mean they don’t dream anymore?
    I used to have v crazy dreams every night lol in mid stage a year ago. Then suddenly it stops. Maybe 2-3 dreams one is bec energy so Imbalancd I dreamt I got a clot in my head 🤦🏻‍♀️


    • Soh Wei Yu
    Yes don't dream anymore


    • Yin Ling
    Soh Wei Yu does it affect your job etc though ?


    • Soh Wei Yu
    Not really.. my job doesn't really require visualisation or imagination lol. It does require pondering and a lot of problem solving.


    • Soh Wei Yu
    More like solving maths problem (in my case programming) than visualising fine art.

    Soh Wei Yu
    Regarding your point about not just focusing on 1 and 2 noble truths, was just reminded of this because of a common misunderstanding that 1st noble truth means life is suffering.
    Appropriated Aggregates are Suffering
    A common misunderstanding is that Buddha taught "life is suffering". As Mr./Ms. AS pointed out, there is often an overemphasis on suffering, but actually in Buddhism, there is only suffering when there is appropriation and clinging. To be clear: Buddha has never said "life is suffering", however, he did teach right from the beginning in his first discourse on the four noble truths that "appropriated aggregates are suffering", and by appropriated I mean tainted with I-making and mine-making.
    In the Pali suttas, clinging and appropriation are not equated with the sheer aggregates ( https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN44.html ), and as Stian mentioned, he thinks aggregates are almost never mentioned in the sense of 'sheer aggregates' in the Pali canon. I think you get glimpses of how are 'sheer aggregates experienced by Buddha/arahants' in scriptures like Bahiya Sutta and Kalaka Sutta. In any case, the appropriation is what causes suffering, and the end of appropriation is the end of suffering.
    In Bahiya Sutta ( http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../ajahn-amaro-on... ), the end of appropriation is equated to the end of suffering, and it is the definition of Nirvana ( http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../great-resource... ). The first discourse he taught was on the four noble truths and one of his five students attained stream entry then, and the second discourse ( https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../the-anatta... ) he taught was on anatta and all the five monks became arahants.
    Now when we come to the Mahayana teachings, all aggregates are taught to be primordially pure and luminous. Does this negate the Pali suttas which says appropriated aggregates are suffering? No, it does not, if understood correctly in context.
    Here's some nice clarifications on Dhammawheel:
    badge icon
    "
    Sobhana wrote:
    The Buddha sums up his definition of dukkha with: "aggregates subject to clinging are suffering" (pancu­padanak­khan­dha).
    What is the meaning and what are the implications?"
    "Since "upadana" means "appropriation",
    more accurate translation would be "appropriated aggregates are suffering". This implies that suffering continues as long as the aggregates are appropriated, identified with.
    Best wishes!
    Post by vinasp » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:10 am
    Hi everyone,
    I intend to quote some discourses which speak of the cessation of the clinging aggregates, using the alternative term 'sakkaya.'
    One problem with this term is that every translator seems to use a different word for it.
    Bhikkhu Bodhi uses 'identity', Ven. Thanissaro uses 'identification'.
    However, I first need to show that 'identity' does indeed mean the five aggregates subject to clinging, this is stated in MN 44
    "Lady,'identity, identity' is said. What is called identity by the Blessed One?"
    "Friend Visakha, these five aggregates affected by clinging are called identity by the Blessed One..."
    [Bhikkhu Bodhi, MLDB,- MN 44.2]
    When I looked on suttacentral I found that they were not using BB's translation for MN 44, but the one that they are using is very good, it is by Anandajoti Bhikkhu.
    “ ‘Embodiment, embodiment,’ is said, Noble Lady. What, Noble Lady, is said to be embodiment by the Gracious One?”
    “These five constituents (of mind and body) that provide fuel for attachment, friend Visākha, are said to be embodiment by the Gracious One, as follows:
    the form constituent that provides fuel for attachment, the feelings constituent that provides fuel for attachment, the perceptions constituent that provides fuel for attachment, the (mental) processes constituent that provides fuel for attachment, the consciousness constituent that provides fuel for attachment...." [suttacentral.net - MN 44]
    Clinging is a mistranslation of 'upadana', fuel or nutriment is much better, I prefer 'sustain' because this sustaining is the cause of 'bhava' (becoming or existence), the continuation of the existence of the apparent self.
    “These five constituents (of mind and body) that provide fuel for attachment ..."
    Should be understood as: “These five constituents (of mind and body) that provide fuel for becoming (bhava).."
    See also SN 12.11 where the 'four nutriments' are said to have craving as their source or origin. This is Dependent Origination with the four nutriments replacing clinging (upadana).
    Regards, Vincent.
    ....
    “Yes, upadana-khandha means 'object of clinging' ('aggregate of clinging').
    It does not mean a potential object of clinging but it means an object of actual clinging.
    Therefore, a lamp is not an upadanakhandha until there is attachment to the lamp as 'my lamp'.
    It follows the word compound 'upadanakhandha' can be translated as 'aggregates subject to clinging' or 'aggregates of clinging'.
    “
    .....
    [11:32 AM, 8/2/2020] John Tan: Tsongkhapa spoke about appropriated aggregates in his lam-rim chen-mo.
    [11:32 AM, 8/2/2020] John Tan: Mmk [Mūlamadhyamakakārikā] also
    Appropriated Aggregates are Suffering
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    Appropriated Aggregates are Suffering
    Appropriated Aggregates are Suffering

  • Reply
  • Remove Preview
  • 1m

    Soh Wei Yu
    ....
    Re: The 3 marks of what, exactly?
    Unread post by vinasp » Sun May 21, 2017 11:55 am
    Hi everyone,
    "Bhikkhus, form is impermanent, feeling is impermanent, perception is impermanent, volitional formations are impermanent, consciousness is impermanent....." SN 22.12
    “Bhikkhus, form is suffering, feeling is suffering, perception is suffering, volitional formations are suffering, consciousness is suffering....." SN 22.13
    “Bhikkhus, form is nonself, feeling is nonself, perception is nonself, volitional formations are nonself, consciousness is nonself....." SN 22.14
    These may appear to be talking about the five aggregates, but I think that the five clinging aggregates are meant. All three continue in this way:
    "Seeing thus, bhikkhus, the instructed noble disciple experiences revulsion towards form, revulsion towards feeling, revulsion towards perception, revulsion towards volitional formations, revulsion towards consciousness. Experiencing revulsion, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion his mind is liberated. When it is liberated there comes the knowledge: ‘It’s liberated.’ He understands: ‘Destroyed is birth, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more for this state of being.’”
    Clearly, the aggregates mentioned at the start are those of an unliberated individual.
    Another possibility is that 'form is suffering', and the rest, are not meant to be understood as ontological statements, but as how these things should be regarded. This explains 'seeing thus' as what leads to liberation.
    Actual form is experienced, but the 'form aggregate' may mean a habit of regarding form in the wrong way, as permanent, a source of pleasure, and in relation to a self. If so, then the form aggregate will vanish when seen in the right way.
    It seems that the discourses do not always make an explicit distinction between the aggregates and the clinging aggregates.
    Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi, while not entirely rejecting the distinction, follows the Abhidhamma and Commentaries, arguing that the Arahant is still described by clinging aggregates.
    Perhaps we should assume that almost all teaching on the aggregates is about the five clinging aggregates.
    Regards, Vincent.
    ....
    A. From MN 44, the Culavedalla Sutta, The Shorter Series of Questions and Answers
    Scene: Householder Visakha has a Q&A with Bukkhuni Dhammadina
    2. “Lady…What is called identity by the Blessed O
    ne?”
    “Friend Visakha, the five aggregates affected by clinging are called identity by the Blessed One; that is, the material form aggregate affected by clinging, the feeling aggregate affected by clinging, the perception aggregate affected by clinging, the mental formations aggregate affected by clinging, and the consciousness aggregate affected by clinging.”
    7. “Lady, how does identity view come to be?”
    “Here, friend Visakha, an untaught person regards …material form as self, or self as possessed of material form…..feeling as self, or self as possessed of feeling…. He regards perceptions as self or as self possessed of perceptions…. mental formations as self, or self as possessed of mental formations…. consciousness as self, or self as possessed of consciousness….”
    8. “Lady, how does identity view not come to be?”
    “Here, friend Visakha, a well-taught noble disciple, who has regard for the noble ones and is skilled and disciplined in their Dhamma….does not regard feeling as self or self as of possessed of feeling…. He does not regard perceptions as self or self as possessed of perception….He does not regard material form as self or self as possessed of material form….he does not regard mental formations as self…..does not regard consciousness as self….”
    .........
    Also related:
    Fetter
    "The eye is not the fetter of forms, nor are forms the fetter of the eye. Whatever desire & passion arises in dependence on the two of them: That is the fetter there. The ear is not the fetter of sounds... The nose is not the fetter of aromas... The tongue is not the fetter of flavors... The body is not the fetter of tactile sensations... The intellect is not the fetter of ideas, nor are ideas the fetter of the intellect. Whatever desire & passion arises in dependence on the two of them: That is the fetter there." -- Buddha, SN 35.191 (PTS: S IV 162)
    "My son, we are not bound by appearances; we are bound by our clinging to them." - Tilopa to Naropa
    "The five senses arising with their objects are unimpeded radiance.
    What is born from not grasping at objects is the unborn basic state.
    Attachment to appearances may be unceasing but reverse it: meditate naturally settled.
    Empty appearances arising free from the intellect is the path of natural expressions.
    Do not see appearances as problems, let go of clinging.
    There will come a time when you will arrive in the valley of one taste meditation." - Yang Gönpa
    Labels: Anatta, Buddha, Suffering |
    The 3 marks of what, exactly? - Page 7 - Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum
    DHAMMAWHEEL.COM
    The 3 marks of what, exactly? - Page 7 - Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum
    The 3 marks of what, exactly? - Page 7 - Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

    • Reply
    • Remove Preview
    • 1m


    Yin Ling
    Yes I was just telling someone ytd that when Buddha says
    “Clinging is the cause of suffering”.
    He is talking about the self.
    Clinging = self-ing= appropriating
    It’s not the aggregates that are they problem, it’s the appropriation rather. The selfing.
    Bec usually traditionally will teach clinging to this and that causes suffering. But that kind of teaching is very dissociative and treat the 5 aggregates as problematic
    But Buddha didn’t say that. He just say one word. Clinging . It is us who are trying to simply elaborate without insight. He just say clinging causes suffering!
    Appropriation causes suffering.

  • Reply
  • 18h
Labels: , , , | edit post
0 Responses
Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)