"The key towards pure knowingness is to bring the taste of presence into the 6 entries and exits. So that what is seen, heard, touched, tasted are pervaded by a deep sense of crystal, radiance and transparency. This requires seeing through the center." - Thusness

John Tan: Yes. That (More real than real) is also an insight that turns the mind internal. Non-arising means appearances without essence similar to a reflection, like a rainbow. That (More real than real) comes with I AMness. The different between anatta and substantiality is beside appearance, there is innate feeling of some essence separate from the appearances of colors, sensations, sound, smell, taste and thoughts. Therefore one cannot be fully open and release."

- Thusness/John Tan, 2019

John Tan wrote in 2012/2013:

In ignorance, there is hearer hearing sound.
In anatta, in hearing, only sound.
Yet sound has no true inherent nature (empty),
It is an activity and is that very activity called “hearing”.
Both “hearing and sound” are pointing to the same activity.
Only when seen to have true existence on either side does confusion arise.

In Madhyamaka Emptiness, reification is seen through.
Yet the experiential state of freedom from reification is not expounded.
However one can have a taste of that freedom from arising insight of anatta since anatta is precisely the freedom from reification of Self/self (First fold Emptiness).
In anatta, seeing is simply the full scenery, in hearing only sound…
thus, always only lights, shape, colors, sounds, scents… in clean purity.
Emptying the object further (second fold) is merely dissolving subtle bond of “externality” that creates the appearance of true existence of objects outside. When “externality” is deconstructed, it is effectively a double confirmation of anatta…
…innerly coreless and outwardly empty, all appearances are still simply sound, lights, colors and rays
In thorough deconstruction, as there is no layer that reifies, there is no conceptuality. Therefore no complication, no confusion, no stains, no boundaries, no center, no sense of dual..
no sense of activity…just self arising.
All collapse into a single sphere of natural presence and spontaneous simplicity.
Whatever appears is
neither here nor now,
Neither in nor out,
Neither arises nor ceases,
In the same space…
non-local, timeless and dimensionless
Simply present…

To Jax:
The place where there is no earth, fire, wind, space, water…
is the place where the earth, fire, wind, space and water kills “You” and fully shines as its own radiance, a complete taste of itself and fully itself.

Lastly, it is interesting to get know something about Dzogchen however the jargons and tenets are far beyond me.
Just wrote due to a sudden spurt of interest, nothing intense.
Thanks for all the sharing and exchanges.
Gone!

Labels: Anatta, John Tan, Luminosity 3 comments | |

Like Space

Excerpt from http://read.84000.co/translation/UT22084-031-002.html

The Transcendent Perfection of Wisdom in Ten Thousand Lines

Daśasāhasrikāprajñāpāramitā

Chapter 13

Like Space

13.1The Blessed One addressed Senior Subhūti as follows: “Subhūti, you asked where this vehicle will come to rest. In this regard, Subhūti, [F.134.b] the vehicle will not come to rest anywhere. If you ask why, it is because resting is non-apprehensible, and so all things do not come to rest. On the other hand, the vehicle will come to rest by way of its non-resting. Subhūti, just as the expanse of reality neither comes to rest, nor does it not come to rest, similarly, Subhūti, the vehicle does not come to rest, nor does it not come to rest. The same refrain should be extensively applied here, just as has been indicated in the context of the previous chapter.

13.2“Subhūti, just as non-arising neither comes to rest, nor does it not come to rest, similarly, this vehicle does not come to rest, nor does it not come to rest; in the same vein, just as non-cessation, non-signlessness, non-affliction, non-purification and non-conditioning neither come to rest, nor do they not come to rest, similarly, Subhūti, this vehicle does not come to rest, nor does it not come to rest. If you ask why, Subhūti, it is because the essential nature of the expanse of reality neither comes to rest, nor does it not come to rest. If you ask why, Subhūti, it is because the essential nature of the expanse of reality is empty of the essential nature of the expanse of reality. In the same vein, the essential nature of those other unconditioned phenomena, up to and including non-conditioning, is empty of non-conditioning, [and so forth]. Subhūti, for these reasons this [Great] Vehicle will not come to rest anywhere, but nor will it not do so. This is owing to its non-resting.

13.3“Also, Subhūti, you asked who will attain emancipation by means of this vehicle. In this regard, Subhūti, no one will attain emancipation by means of this vehicle. If you ask why, Subhūti, it is because all those things associated with this vehicle, and with those who would attain emancipation, and that in which emancipation is attained, are non-existent and they are non-apprehensible. [F.135.a] Since all things are accordingly non-existent and non-apprehensible, who could attain emancipation by means of anything? In what could emancipation possibly be attained? If you ask why, Subhūti, it is because the self and other [posited subjects], up to and including the knower and the viewer, are non-apprehensible. This being the case, the ‘self’ is never apprehensible. Similarly, [other posited subjects], from sentient beings and living creatures to knowers and viewers, are all non-apprehensible.

13.4“Similarly, the expanse of reality is non-apprehensible, owing to its utter purity. The real nature is non-apprehensible, owing to its utter purity. The finality of existence is non-apprehensible, [owing to its utter purity]. The inconceivable expanse is non-apprehensible, owing to its utter purity. The psycho-physical aggregates and sensory elements are non-apprehensible, owing to their utter purity. The sensory elements and sense fields are non-apprehensible, owing to their utter purity. Similarly, the transcendent perfection of generosity is non-apprehensible, owing to its utter purity. Similarly, the transcendent perfection of ethical discipline, the transcendent perfection of tolerance, the transcendent perfection of perseverance, the transcendent perfection of meditative concentration, and the transcendent perfection of wisdom are non-apprehensible, owing to their utter purity. Similarly, the emptiness of internal phenomena is non-apprehensible, owing to its utter purity, and in the same vein, the other aspects of emptiness, up to and including the emptiness of the essential nature of non-entities, are non-apprehensible, owing to their utter purity.

.......

Senior Subhūti then said to the Blessed One, “Venerable Lord! This great vehicle, which is called the Great Vehicle, overpowers and attains emancipation from the world with its gods, humans, and antigods. Venerable Lord! As I understand the words spoken by the Blessed One, this Great Vehicle is equal to space. Just as in space, coming, going, and abiding are not discernible, so in this Great Vehicle, also, coming, going, and abiding are not discernible. Just as in space, the limit of the past is non-apprehensible, and the limit of the future and the intervening [present] are non-apprehensible, so in this Great Vehicle, also, the limit of the past is non-apprehensible, and the limit of the future and the intervening [present] are non-apprehensible. It is because it genuinely transcends the three times 266 that this vehicle is called the Great Vehicle.”

13.14The Blessed One then replied to Senior Subhūti, “That is so, Subhūti! It is just as you have said! This vehicle is equal to space. That is why it overpowers and attains emancipation from the world with its gods, humans, and antigods. Subhūti, this vehicle of the bodhisattvas comprises the six transcendent perfections. [F.137.a] If you ask what these six are, they are the transcendent perfection of generosity, the transcendent perfection of ethical discipline, the transcendent perfection of tolerance, the transcendent perfection of perseverance, the transcendent perfection of meditative concentration, and the transcendent perfection of wisdom. Subhūti, these designate the Great Vehicle of great bodhisattva beings.

Labels: Emptiness 0 comments | |

Like Rainbow, Like Space

Thusness:

Christian, I see all phenomena like rainbow, they appear but are empty. Neither exist nor not exist, they are free from extremes.

As for the word “exist”, I reserve it for “svabhāva”. To exist is to possess essence or substance. Essence means phenomenon possessing characteristic or not brought about by causal process or capable of standing by itself. Substance means irreducible constituents of reality can be found.

...

Yes Christian, I understand. Whether it is expressed as “exist conventionally but ultimately empty” or “appear but r empty” is simply a matter of flavour.

What is important is the taste of seeing conventional things as empty till one’s entire body-mind is pervaded with emptiness - like space, free and unobstructed.

Labels: Emptiness 0 comments | |

How is Buddha Nature Unconditioned?

Malcolm wrote:

https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=19502&start=200

The Uttaratantra states:
Unconditioned, effortless,
not realized through other conditions,
endowed with wisdom, compassion and power,
buddhahood is endowed with two benefits.
But what does this really all mean?

When we examine Asanga's comments on this, he states:
When these are summarized, buddhahood is described with eight qualties. If it is asked what those eight qualities are, they are unconditioned, effortless, not realized through other conditions, wisdom, compassion, power, the abundance of one's own benefit and the abundance of others' benefit. [Buddhahood] is unconditioned because it is the nature of lacking a beginning, middle and end. It is called "effortless" because peace is endowed with the dharmakāya. It is not realized through other conditions because each person must realize it for themselves. It is wisdom because those three things are realized. [Buddhahood] is compassionate because [the Buddha] shows the path. It is powerful because it is free from suffering and affliction. The former three [unconditioned, effortless and not realized through other conditions] are for one's own benefit; the latter three [wisdom, compassion and power] are for others' benefit.

In that regard, the conditioned is fully understood as arising somewhere, and also understood as abiding and perishing. Because those do not exist [arising, abiding and perishing], buddhahood itself is unconditioned without a beginning, middle and an end. This is seen as a differentiation made through the dharmakāya. Because all proliferation and concepts are pacified, [buddhahood] is effortless [lhun gyis grub]. Buddhahood is not realized through other conditions because it is realized through wisdom oneself produced. Here, udayo [to produce] is not the arising of a desire for realization. As such, the tathāgata is unconditioned due to the truth, out of the characteristics of non-engagement, all the activities of the buddha effortlessly engaged in without impediment and without interruption for as long as samsara exists
So let us parse this out a little bit.

Asanga states in his commentary on the Uttaratantra:
...the conditioned is understood as arising somewhere, and also understood as abiding and perishing. Because those do not exist [arising, abiding and perishing], buddhahood itself is unconditioned without a beginning, middle and an end.
Buddhahood is unconditioned because the trio of arising, abiding and perishing are false. Not because in contrast to things that arise, abide and perish, buddhahood does not arise, abide and perish.

Buddhahood however has a cause, as he writes:
Buddhahood is not realized through other conditions because it is realized through wisdom oneself produced.
Buddhahood is also effortless, because, as he writes:
...all proliferation and concepts are pacified, [buddhahood] is effortless [lhun gyis grub]...As such, the tathāgata is unconditioned due to the truth; and from the characteristics of non-engagement, all the activities of the buddha are engaged in effortlessly [lhun grub], without impediment and without interruption for as long as samsara exists
As for tathāgatagarbha always existing in the continuums of sentient beings; if you think somehow tathāgatagarba is something other than or different than a sentient beings mind, there there is a fallacy of the tathāgatagarbha being something like an atman. But there is no atman in the tathāgatagarbha theory, not really. the supreme self, (paramātma) is explained very clearly in the Uttaratantra:
The supreme self is the pacification of the proliferations of self and and nonself.
But what does this mean? Asanga adds:
The perfection of self (ātmapāramitā) is known through two reasons: due to being free from proliferation of a self because of being free from the extreme of the non-buddhists and due to being free from the proliferation of nonself because of giving up the extreme of the śrāvakas.
He explains further:
From cultivating prajñāpāramita in order to turn away from seeing the five addictive aggregates as self, the non-existent self in which the others, the nonbuddhists, delight, one attains the result, the perfection of self. In this way all the others, the nonbuddhists, accept natureless things such as matter and so on as a self due to their being deceived by a characteristic of a self according to how those things are being apprehended, but that self never existed.

The Tathāgata, on the other hand, has attained the supreme perfection of the selflessness of all phenomena through the wisdom that is in accord with just how things truly are, and though there is no self according to how he sees things, he asserts a self all the time because he is never deceived by the characteristic of a self that does not exist. Making the selfless into a self is like saying "abiding through the mode of nonabiding.
There are some people who, ignoring the Nirvana Sutra's admonition to rely on the meaning rather than on the words, fall headlong into eternalism, unable to parse the Buddha's profound meaning through addiction to naive literalism.

Tathagatagarbha is just a potential to become a buddha. When we say it is has infinite qualities, this is nothing more nor less than when the Vajrapañjara praises the so called "jewel-like mind":
The jewel-like mind is tainted with
evil conceptual imputations;
but when the mind is purified it becomes pure.
Just as space cannot be destroyed,
just as is space, so too is the mind.
By activating the jewel-like mind
and meditating on the mind itself, there is the stage of buddhahood,
and in this life there will be sublime buddhahood.
There is no buddha nor a person
outside of the jewel-like mind,
the abode of consciousness is ultimate,
outside of which there isn't the slightest thing.
All buddhahood is through the mind...
Matter, sensation, perception
formations and consciousness
these all arise from the mind,
these [five] munis are not anything else.
Like a great wishfulfilling gem,
granting the results of desires and goals,
the pure original nature of the true state of the mind
bestows the result, Buddha's awakening
There is no other basis apart from this natural purity of the mind that is inseparable clarity and emptiness. We can call it whatever we want, but still this fact remains. The Lankāvatara rightly observes that tathāgatagarbha is just a name for emptiness and the ālayavijñāna for those afraid of emptiness. Jayānanda writes that ālayavijñāna is the mind that comprehends the basis, i.e. emptiness. How else can the mind be purified of evil conceptual imputations other than by realizing emptiness? Emptiness free from all extremes is the pure original nature of the true state of the mind, so why bother confusing oneself with all kinds of rhetoric? The mind itself has two aspects, emptiness and clarity, ka dag and lhun grub, and these are inseparable. This inseparable clarity and emptiness is call the ālaya in gsar ma and the basis in Nyingma. This also known as tathagatagarbha when it encased in afflictions, the dharmadhātu from its ultimate side, the ālayavijñāna from its relative side and so on. It really is not that complicated.

........

Malcolm:

Are you making the assertion that use of the term “unconditioned” renders all traditions that use the term compatible? The sugatagarbha doctrine has a few variations, for example, the Lanka equates it with the all-basis consciousness. As I understand the term, tathagatagarbha refers to the union of the mind”s clarity and emptiness. That union is unconditioned, but the mind itself is conditioned. Just this is the “god” ChNN is referring to, and nothing else, since the basis is just this.

Labels: Emptiness 0 comments | |

On "Supernatural Powers" or Siddhis, and Past Lives

'“Supernatural” is a misnomer, and moreover is a materialist straw man fallacy. Not to mention a semi-pejorative term wielded by materialists that is rooted in the concept of “superstition.” In actuality, there is no such thing as the supernatural in Buddhist teachings, only subtle aspects of dependent origination [pratītyasamutpāda] that are usually obscured or misunderstood.' - Kyle Dixon [krodha], 2022

https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/sph1qt/buddhism_and_the_supernatural/hwff9pf/?context=3

"My advice is knowing our nature does not require us to "rojak" [Soh: turn quantum physics and spirituality into an eclectic mix] them at all and the benefits of practice is something very tangible. It can be realized, known and experienced including the supramadane abilities of buddha and bodhisattvas, the sambhogakaya body and buddhafields to those that r serious in practice. They maybe myth to some but not myth to me, at least it can be verified by first person experiences (imo) regardless how science think and that are already enough for me to cope." - John Tan, 2022

Jared K Jones:

I would say that after thorough investigation, there are reasons in terms of philosophy, physics, and direct observation to think that these sorts of phenomena are not mere descriptive fancy, nor so-called “skillful” lies to gain followers.

For practical examples, look at monks who do Tummo. They generate heat in a part of the body where there is no physical basis for such heat. Then they manipulate that heat at will and move it up the spinal column.

There was also a case of a very old Hindu yogi who attained Samadhi and stopped eating or drinking. He was studied by doctors in a continuous isolation chamber for 10 days, who concluded that - not only was he not dying of starvation or dehydration - he was in great health.

Further, we now have - thanks to the Dalai Lama - brain scans of yogis who have held themselves in the post-death state for several weeks. They didn’t decompose and had brain activity after death for extended periods of time, indicating consciousness when the body is medically dead.

The marathon monks of Mt. Hiei who have committed to the 7 year cycle only eat one small meal a day, a starvation died of 900-1,200 calories, while hiking between 6-16 hours a day. They should be dead, medically speaking.

We also have accounts from modern times like those found in “Yogis of Tibet” where high lamas exhibit extraordinary miracles, like leaving footprints in solid rock.

Milarepa famously did this same demonstration many times for students, to show that the external world is merely a manifestation of mind. When the mind is fully tamed and awakened, the external world is entirely fluid. His handprint - from one of his meditation caves - is attached.

Great masters often also generate relics and signs in the ashes of their funeral pyres: pearls, handprints, pieces of jade, and so on. Having known people through the grape vine who have been involved in the collection of such relics, it is done with the utmost integrity.

When you read Vimalakirti, this is not allegorical or simply a creative narrative, in my view. In relativity, the observer is at the center. Events are different physically for different observers: different numbers of particles, different speeds in time, different sizes, different sequences of events, and so on.

For one observer, x happens first, then y. For another, y first, then x. For another, xy happens at the same time. And in one perspective, neither happens. All four can occur simultaneously with regards to the same so-called “external” thing. This is just Western physics!

So, when Vimalakirti causes the room to expand or mountain chairs to appear from other realms, there is no reason that his should effect the perception of the surrounding people living in the city around him. It’s simply the activity which is possible for a mind which has realized the objects of experience are inseparable from a creative-knowing factor.

....Honestly, it took me a long time looking at emptiness, the conventional nature of mind, and modern physics - as well as examples like the above - to say that these things are most likely true. I’m about 80% convinced.

....

Andersine Thank you! It saddens me to see Buddhists rejecting these ideas based upon our current scientific-materialist mythology.

Stanford professors are literally saying, “Is there a universe when we aren’t looking?”

And saying “Information is what the universe is made of, and information is merely mental. So, the universe is fundamentally mental.”

And we have Einstein saying (paraphrased), “The physical properties of the events depend on the observer, not only the event itself. The event can happen physically in two different ways simultaneously, depending upon two different reference frames.”

This is our own culture telling us it’s non-dual! It’s empty of self-character. The physical matter is empty and only arises with the observer. Time is empty and only occurs from a reference frame.

There is no “past event” which determines what happens now! It’s physically a different universe for all observers. Western physicists at major universities are (quite literally) saying these things.

----

The purpose of practicing dharma is for awakening and liberation, not siddhis. See Chinese video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaHEmOz4b-M

========================

Session Start: Tuesday, April 17, 2007

(11:14 PM) AEN:    btw wat u think about the supernatural topic (someone trained in shamatha asking for advice on development of siddhis/powers)
(11:14 PM) AEN:    lol
(11:16 PM) Thusness:    i wish i can discuss with him but he is not the person for me to discuss. :)
(11:16 PM) AEN:    huh why
(11:16 PM) Thusness:    anyway unless i am an irresponsible person, i will not discuss such thing in public forum.
(11:17 PM) AEN:    oic
(11:17 PM) AEN:    why is he not for u to discuss
(11:17 PM) Thusness:    though i would very much like to.
(11:17 PM) AEN:    icic
(11:18 PM) Thusness:    infact i have been looking for someone that have perfected non-duality to writing something about non locality, i have told u b4.
(11:18 PM) AEN:    oic
(11:18 PM) AEN:    so wat r u saying.. u wan to discuss supernatural powers and non locality with someone?
(11:18 PM) AEN:    as in someone non dual
(11:19 PM) Thusness:    someone that has deep experience in non duality. :)
(11:19 PM) AEN:    icic.. so tats why u don wan to discuss with the forum guy? cos he's not non dual yet?
(11:19 PM) Thusness:    i do not wish to tok to ppl in samatha meditation.
(11:19 PM) AEN:    why
(11:20 PM) Thusness:    and only when i know the person is already enlightened. :)
(11:20 PM) Thusness:    otherwise there is no point.
(11:21 PM) Thusness:    and i do not want ppl to misinterpret the nature of these experiences.
(11:21 PM) Thusness:    i also do not like ppl to bullshit about these experiences.
(11:21 PM) Thusness:    and also do not like ppl to make fun of these experiences.
(11:21 PM) Thusness:    lol
(11:21 PM) AEN:    what u mean by bullshit and make fun
(11:21 PM) Thusness:    i might leave something b4 my i die.
(11:21 PM) AEN:    leave what?
(11:22 PM) Thusness:    my experiences and how to get access to it after non-duality.
(11:22 PM) AEN:    oic wat sort of experiences?
(11:22 PM) Thusness:    u r not enlightened yet. :P
(11:22 PM) AEN:    about supernatural powers? lol
(11:23 PM) Thusness:    yeah. :)
(11:23 PM) Thusness:    ur mind is not stable yet.
(11:23 PM) AEN:    oic btw wats the uses of supernatural powers.. how can supernatural power help one and others
(11:24 PM) AEN:    my mind not stable means?
(11:25 PM) Thusness:    with ur current state of mind, u will not be able to correctly absorb in whatever aspect.
(11:26 PM) Thusness:    whatever that is necessary are already stated in sutras
(11:26 PM) Thusness:    there is really no point bringing it out to discuss.
(11:26 PM) Thusness:    what one experiences for me is to break the perceptual bond that prevent us from knowing some subtle aspects of our mind.
(11:27 PM) Thusness:    that is too difficult to break by merely just accepting things.
(11:28 PM) Thusness:    the way to access to paranormal experiences differs.
(11:28 PM) AEN:    icic..
(11:28 PM) Thusness:    however for one that has stabilize non dual path, it is the natural progression to experience something non-local
(11:28 PM) Thusness:    some non-local aspect of our nature.
(11:29 PM) Thusness:    to understand our nature.
(11:29 PM) Thusness:    what good is there really to discuss the non local aspect of it besides that?
(11:29 PM) Thusness:    i do not like to call it supernatural power.
(11:29 PM) AEN:    oic..
(11:30 PM) Thusness:    u can c that i seldom call it so.
(11:30 PM) Thusness:    i call it non local aspects of our nature.
(11:30 PM) AEN:    icic
(11:30 PM) Thusness:    as it is part of our nature.
(11:30 PM) Thusness:    in line with emptiness.
(11:30 PM) Thusness:    i do not like to deviate from the profound teachings of emptiness.
(11:30 PM) AEN:    oic..
(11:31 PM) Thusness:    of our nature. :)
(11:31 PM) AEN:    icic
(11:31 PM) Thusness:    that is why i also do not wish to discuss with anyone that is on concentration.
(11:31 PM) Thusness:    coz it is not about wisdom and our nature.
(11:32 PM) AEN:    btw theres difference rite between someone who gain those powers from concentration, and those who become enlightened and those so called powers actually arise from prajna?
(11:32 PM) Thusness:    if u want to know, know what is our nature and practice.
(11:32 PM) AEN:    icic
(11:32 PM) Thusness:    i do not know, i have not discussed with them. :)

(11:36 PM) Thusness:    first is the realisation.
(11:36 PM) AEN:    what u mean
(11:36 PM) Thusness:    u must realise what is meant by non duality.
(11:36 PM) Thusness:    what is no-self
(11:36 PM) Thusness:    realisation.
(11:37 PM) AEN:    icic
(11:37 PM) Thusness:    like longchen
(11:37 PM) Thusness:    experience it.
(11:37 PM) Thusness:    then ur dualistic thought will continue to confuse u.
(11:37 PM) Thusness:    it is not easy to overcome
(11:37 PM) Thusness:    until it has sunk so deep into ur consciousness
(11:37 PM) AEN:    icic..
(11:38 PM) Thusness:    that one day ur realisation and action become one...
(11:38 PM) Thusness:    somehow u 'see' the pathless path towards non dual at every moment.
(11:39 PM) Thusness:    but due to attachments, the experience of non duality through wisdom will not be thorough.
(11:39 PM) Thusness:    so u must practice the other 5 paramitas
(11:39 PM) AEN:    icic..
(11:40 PM) Thusness:    then non dual in action can become one....to clear other forms of attachments and to further experience our boundless nature.
(11:40 PM) Thusness:    but some of these bonds can be cleared if one is able to have non local experiences.
(11:40 PM) AEN:    oic..
(11:41 PM) Thusness:    certain attachments will subside due to these experiences.
(11:41 PM) Thusness:    but the practice of the other 5 parimatas are more thorough.
(11:41 PM) Thusness:    non local aspects of our nature if without sufficient wisdom will have side effects.
(11:42 PM) AEN:    icic..
(11:42 PM) AEN:    what side effects
(11:42 PM) AEN:    5 paramitas how does it help
(11:42 PM) AEN:    in non attachment?
(11:42 PM) Thusness:    to me side effects is always creating perceptual bond on other aspects.
(11:42 PM) Thusness:    u eliminate one and u add 3.
(11:42 PM) Thusness:    :)
(11:42 PM) AEN:    oic...
(11:43 PM) Thusness:    if non local aspects is experienced and u unknowingly add to our ego other form of bonds, then it is quite difficult to break.
(11:44 PM) Thusness:    coz it was caused by non local experiences.
(11:44 PM) AEN:    icic..
(11:44 PM) AEN:    u mean like being identified/attached to having supernatural powers?
(11:45 PM) Thusness:    one of them.
(11:45 PM) Thusness:    or u may visit other realms and get attached?
(11:45 PM) Thusness:    or u may contact spirits and be attached and dwell with them...
(11:45 PM) AEN:    icic..
(11:45 PM) Thusness:    u do not know... when u dwell...
(11:46 PM) Thusness:    u may sink into deeper illusion into the realm that u have created without knowing
(11:46 PM) AEN:    oic..
(11:46 PM) Thusness:    it is not just a matter of ego. :)
(11:47 PM) AEN:    yea teacher chen said
(11:47 PM) Thusness:    it is our wisdom and clarity have not penetrated to the depth of seeing through these states.

========================

2006:

(7:16 PM) AEN:   eckhart tolle's depth of experience is there?
(7:16 PM) John:   I hope the next book has what i want. :)
(7:16 PM) AEN:   oic wat u want
(7:17 PM) John:   eckhart tolle's yes. But i think not to Toni's level. That is my opinion. Toni's is almost mirror bright. But I just cannot understand certain thing.
(7:18 PM) AEN:   oic..
(7:18 PM) AEN:   cannot understand wat
(7:18 PM) John:   about emptiness, there is something not there.
(7:18 PM) John:   initially i thought it should be a natural progression.
(7:20 PM) AEN:   as in?
(7:22 PM) AEN:   u there?
(7:23 PM) John:   toking to my dad and wife. :P
(7:23 PM) AEN:   oic
(7:35 PM) John:   you taken ur dinner?
(7:42 PM) AEN:   yea
(7:43 PM) John:   i hope to grab the new book when it arrives in Singapore.
(7:43 PM) AEN:   oic ya me too
(7:56 PM) AEN:   there?
(8:20 PM)   You have just sent a Nudge!
(8:26 PM) John:   just finished eating. :)
(8:27 PM) AEN:   oic okie
(8:27 PM) AEN:   so wat u mean about the emptiness
(8:29 PM) John:   many ppl can only write until the level what toni wrote.... I am looking for some non locality experiences.
(8:31 PM) AEN:   back
(8:32 PM) AEN:   wat do u mean by non locality experiences
(8:32 PM) AEN:   and why is it that many ppl can only write until wat toni wrote?
(8:35 PM) John:   zen masters have that level of clarity. As for lay, seldom do i see ppl having that clarity. It is therefore difficult for people to write about anything after he/she
reaches that level of clarity. Unfortunately, real zen masters doesn't speak much. :)
(8:35 PM) John:   when u listen, the sound is out there....how far can we hear?
(8:36 PM) AEN:   as in physical distant?
(8:36 PM) John:   yes
(8:37 PM) AEN:   dunnu leh need measurement.. haha.. on the relative level
(8:37 PM) John:   lol
(8:37 PM) John:   wait for the books to be out lah...
(8:37 PM) AEN:   huh??
(8:39 PM) AEN:   so u mean toni packer didnt spoke of non locality
(8:39 PM) John:   i do not know. Dunno she experience or not. :P
(8:39 PM) AEN:   http://www.heartspace.org/misc/IndraNet.html
(8:39 PM) AEN:

4. Non-locality

Indra's Net shoots holes in the assumption or imputation of a solid and fixed universe 'out there'. The capacity of one jewel to reflect the light of another jewel from the other edge of
infinity is something that is difficult for the linear mind, rational mind to comprehend. The fact that all nodes are simply reflections indicates that there is no particular single source
point from where it all arises.
(8:39 PM) AEN:   so have u read any books that spoke about non locality
(8:40 PM) John:   this is interesting...
(8:40 PM) AEN:   avatamasaka sutra.
(8:40 PM) AEN:   and indra's net
(8:41 PM) AEN:   http://buddhism.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=129929
(8:44 PM) John:   have u watched superman?
(8:44 PM) AEN:   yea
(8:45 PM) John:   there is a part where he raise above the earth atmosphere and listen....he hears all...
(8:45 PM) John:   i like that part.
(8:45 PM) John:   :)
(8:45 PM) AEN:   oic..
(8:45 PM) AEN:   how come
(8:45 PM) John:   just like lah...
(8:45 PM) AEN:   oic
(8:45 PM) AEN:   hahaha
(8:46 PM) AEN:   like guan yin :P
(8:46 PM) John:   yes. :)
(8:46 PM) AEN:   my shi fu said something like... which i didnt quite understand... when u practise until certain level, in another universe, when a flower blossom u will know
(8:46 PM) AEN:   cant remember isit exactly it
(8:46 PM) AEN:   i tink not referring to supernatural powers
(8:47 PM) John:   ur shi fu is who?
(8:47 PM) AEN:   ven shen kai
(8:47 PM) John:   sheng kai?
(8:47 PM) John:   okie.
(8:47 PM) AEN:   teacher chen is his dharma successor in charge of transmitting some important dharmas
(8:48 PM) John:   ic...then li zhu teacher?
(8:48 PM) AEN:   yup
(8:48 PM) AEN:   oh
(8:48 PM) AEN:   local teacher
(8:48 PM) John:   so when u say shi fu, u r normally referring to ven sheng kai?
(8:48 PM) AEN:   yea
(8:48 PM) AEN:   hahaha
(8:48 PM) John:   ic. :)
(8:48 PM) AEN:   truthz maybe call 'shi gong'
(8:48 PM) AEN:   cos different side
(8:49 PM) AEN:   bcos li zhu lao shi is not chu jia
(8:49 PM) John:   ic
(9:02 PM) AEN:   "guan yin's practise is 'er gen yuan tong', whatever world has sentient beings calling for him, he will hear and save them. therefore if we are to attain buddhahood in this
world, even if there is a flower blossoming in another universe, we will know immediately, then we will attain budhahood'
(9:02 PM) AEN:   i tink he mention about flower blossoming in another universe somewhere else too
(9:03 PM) AEN:   in the 'kai shi lu' series
(9:03 PM) John:   ic. You are very resourceful. :)
(9:04 PM) AEN:   haha cos i just listen to this again recently
(9:04 PM) AEN:   so i remember
(9:04 PM) John:   ic
(9:08 PM) AEN:   guan yin can listen cos he can access 'the ocean of self-nature'
(9:08 PM) AEN:   is it some kind of supernatural power?
(9:09 PM) John:   this might be possible through deep clarity....it relates to clearing of fetters.
(9:09 PM) AEN:   oic
(9:09 PM) John:   but like i said, not for u to delve into it now. :P
(9:09 PM) AEN:   hahaha
(9:09 PM) AEN:   ok

Session Start: Thursday, July 06, 2006

    AEN:
     (E-mail Address Not Verified)

(9:44 PM) AEN:   still there?
(9:44 PM) AEN:   so how is nonlocality experienced as
(9:57 PM)   You have just sent a Nudge!
(11:19 PM) John:   might be like superman. :)
(11:22 PM) AEN:   har?
(11:22 PM) AEN:   hahaha
(11:22 PM) AEN:   as in really can hear very far? lol
(11:23 PM) John:   what is emptiness?
(11:24 PM) AEN:   empty of inherent existence (3 dharma seals), dependant arising?
(11:25 PM) John:   how does consciousness arise?
(11:25 PM) AEN:   conditioned arising
(11:25 PM) AEN:   /dependant arising
(11:25 PM) John:   and how does condition arise?
(11:25 PM) AEN:   hmm like net of indra metaphor?
(11:26 PM) John:   dunno...just arise. :P

=============

John Tan commentary on Lankavatara Sutra, 2007:

http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/p/normal-0-false-false-false-en-sg-zh-cn.html

When we look at Buddhism, Buddhism is very consistent. Why do I say that Buddhism is very consistent? Not because I like Buddhism. You see, a person saying that I have experienced Presence, and I AM the Eternal Witness, I AM God, I AM all powerful and I AM the First Cause, and yet, they see a dualistic world. This is in total conflict; this has totally no logic at all. Because, you see, in Buddhism when we talk about Non-Duality, we are saying something like the Dependent Origination. Because of This, That Is. This arises, That arises. This ceases, That ceases. We look at the entire formation, there is no “Who?” Where is the “Who?” When we ask “Where?”, there is no “Where?”. When we ask “When?”, there is no “When?” It can be 10 million miles away. It can be in another planet. The teaching is consistent. It does not require a “Who”, a “Where”, a “When”. Condition arises, it is there. It is not stored in any place, or anywhere. This is the teaching. The entire teaching is consistent when it comes to the practise. They didn’t say Concentration can lead to Insight. They tell you, Vipashyana Meditation can lead to Insight of what Reality is all about. It does not teach that there is a Self. The Buddha taught the three dharma seals: there is No-Self. So the teaching is consistent in terms of philosophy, in terms of meditation practice, and in terms of the truths that is being preached.

And also in terms of spiritual powers. When I say something like Clairvoyance... I can see, not bounded by distance. I can hear, not bounded by distance. How come? Why? If we were to take other religions, they can’t explain. But if you were to take Buddhism, Buddha had never told you, has never taught, something of an Ego, something of a Where, something of a When. It is not bounded by Time and Space at all in the entire philosophy. Never has he taught anything like that. And therefore, when we talk about spiritual powers, it is consistent. It is knowing without the need for a Space and Time, not bounded by Space and Time, because the entire teaching is so. And what is being said about this? It is the Nature. This is your nature. Reality is like that, it is so. Therefore, when we understand the teachings, we understand that yes, it is not right to be attached, therefore we cannot say we want to seek spiritual powers, like Nub. But we have to understand, this is our Nature, this is our Reality. Because the teaching has never contradicted itself. If you want to know about your reality, you have to practise. That is the teaching. And the practise has always been telling you to observe these 3 universal characteristics. So when we see the link between the practise, the philosophy, even something spiritual and something that is not scientific. This is important.

=============

Sim Pern Chong's article from 2008, taken from http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2008/06/non-solidity-of-existence.html

(Post last updated: 15th June 2008)

http://www.dreamdatum.com/non-solidity.html

The non-solidity of existence

This article describes a spiritual insight. It may be quite hard to understand.

The things that we experience are registered by all the sense organs. The eye sight registers vision, the ears register sound, the body registers sensations. These perception, sensations and experiences are not happening in some places. They are the experience of the arising of certain conditions. There is no solidity and physicality in the actual experience.

What we experienced is not universal and common to all. Here's an example to illustrate that: We know that as human beings, we see in term of colours. Some animals are however colour-blind, thus they see differently from us. But none of us, is really seeing the truth nature directly. The senses of different species of sentient beings experience things differently. So who is seeing the real image of an object? None.

Likewise, the various planes of existence are due to different conditions arising. In certain types of meditation, one is said to be able to access these planes of existence. This is because they are not specific locations. They are mental states and are thus non-localised. In these meditations, our consciousness changes and 'aligned' more with these other states or planes of existence.

All the planes of existence are simultaneously manifesting, but because our senses are human-based conditioned arisings, we only see the human world and other beings that shared 'similar' resonating arising conditions. But nevertheless, the other planes of existences are not elsewhere in some other places.

What we think of as places are really just consciousness and there is no solidity whatsoever. Even our touch sense is just that. The touch sense gives an impression of feeling something that is physical and three-dimensional. But there is really no solid self-existing object there. Instead, it is simply the sensation that gives the impression of physical solidity and form.

OK, that all I can think of and write about this topic. I will revise and improve this article where the need arises.

For your necessary ponderance. Thank you for reading.

These articles are parts of a series of spiritual realisation articles .

-------------------------------

Thusness/Passerby's comment on a related/largely similar post by Longchen in the forum:

Originally posted by longchen:
Hi Friend,
Just my understanding only. For discussion sake. Also, I find this topic very interesting.
What appears to us are registered by all the sense organs. The eye sight sees some thing, the ears hear something, etc ,etc. There are not happening in some place. They are the arising of certain conditions.
To illustrate that what we experience is not standardised, we know that human beings see in term of colour range. Some animals are colour-blind. so they see differently. But none of us, is seeing the truth nature directly. The senses of different species of sentient beings experience things differently.
Likewise, the 31 planes of existence are due to different conditions arising. In the jhana meditation, one is said to be able to access these planes of existence. This is because they are not specific locations. They are mental states. In the jhanas, our consciousness changes and 'aligned' more with these other states or planes of existence.
All the planes of existence are simultaneously manifesting, but because our senses are human-based conditioned arisings, we only see the human world and other beings that shared 'similar' resonating arising conditions. But nevertheless, the other planes of existences are not elsewhere in some other places.
What we think of as places are really just consciousness. .. no solidity whatsoever. Even our touch sense is just that. It gives an impression of feeling something 3D with textures and so on so forth. But there is no solid self-existing object there... it is simply the sensation that gives the impression of solidity.

Hi Longchen,
I can see the synchronization of emptiness view into your non-dual experiences --. Integrating view, practice and experience. This is the essence of our emptiness nature and right understanding of non-dual experience in Buddhism that is different from Advaita Vedanta teaching. This is also the understanding of why Everything is the One Reality incorporating causes, conditions and luminosity of our Empty nature as One and inseparable. Everything as the One Reality should never be understood from a dualistic/inherent standpoint.

This also explains the nature of 'supernatural power' like clairvoyance and seeing things far away, etc.

Indeed! You can see the how the view, practice and experience leading to the understanding of non-locality in terms of views, practices and experience.

Stage 6. The nature of Presence is Empty
Not only is there no ‘who’ in pristine awareness, there is no ‘where’ and ‘when’. This is its nature.
When there is this, that is.
With the arising of this, that arises.
When this is not, neither is that.
With the cessation of this, that ceases.
-- the principle of conditionality
The self-luminous awareness from beginning-less time has never been separated and cannot be separated from its conditions. They are not two -- This is, That is. Along with the conditions, Luminosity shines without a center and arises without a place. No where to be found. This is the emptiness nature of Presence.

=============

Soh Wei Yu Supernatural powers does exist and is not just magical thinking. But whether all stories are mythical or actually happened is another story. But as for siddhis, many people including John Tan has had experiences with them, various kinds. I have only very limited experiences with them compared to the other yogis, and mainly of a clairvoyant nature. I shall digress and just refer to others on this matter.

http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../on...

Excerpt:

Daniel M. Ingram wrote:

https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/318001#_19_message_319167

...As to crazy-ass experiences, here's a very short list: moving flames around with my mind with very Ghost-Busters-style energy blasts that accompanied the force that moved the flame, endless OBE stuff and lucid dream stuff, some of which was straight off the cushion and back to the cushion, predicting my wife having a car accident 4 years later accurately, hearing and seeing all manner of stuff (from British women chatting in their parlor about the news on the tele to pit preachers on Sunday morning talking about how the Buddhists in the monastery I was staying in would all go to Hell, and much, much more), have very profound and powerfully explanatory past-life experiences, have some bilocation-type experiences, being able to put my "ghost-hand" through a wall with all awareness and sensation perception then embodied in that rather than my usual body, being able to call up beyond-orgasmic bliss to roll through my body, being able to know to hit the breaks to slow down before I could possible see the deer about to run out in front of me on the way driving home, being able to make people do or stop doing various things (very grey morality territory here), being able to see and manipulate the energy channels in my body, being able to know who has called while the phone is ringing sometimes (lots of people can do that, actually), banishing a demon or two (whatever that means), and the endless crazy A&P stuff with my body exploding into energy and fire-works like experiences, bright lights, seeing through closed eye-lids, shaking, traveling, and many other strange things like that. There are more subtle magicks: long-range formally-cast intentions to have certain situations resolve within certain parameters, being able to feel what the person I was giving a back rub to was feeling and where the pain was, resolutions to have various jhanic experiences happen or to get stream entry or whatever, general subtle-energy manipulation in my body, rooms, situations, interactions, conversations, and even more subtle things: strange intuitions about how things will go, about what to do or not do in a certain situation. Even at times the musical things I write that just show up and seem unbidden seem magickal, but that's probably not what you were after.

While obviously this stuff is quite interesting, in the end, as they all say and are right, it is actually things like finishing the process of insight and being kind, wise in a relative way, and helpful that make the most difference in terms of how good your life will be, though those things can help with that, if used properly and kept in perspective, which for some, like me, takes seeing them so many times I finally got somewhat (though not completely) bored by them. In short, if you have some powers experience, don't quit your day job.

============

Also see interview: DY 008 – “Meditation, Magick, and the Fire Kasina” – with guest Daniel Ingram

Thusness liked this article: http://integrateddaniel.info/magick-and-the-brahma-viharas/
awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com
On "Supernatural Powers" or Siddhis
On "Supernatural Powers" or Siddhis
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Soh Wei Yu Also, check out this book:

http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../dying-to-be-me...

She was not a trained yogi before her nde but her nde itself and recovery was very miraculous

It is an interesting book a new york times bestseller
awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com
Dying to be Me by Anita Moorjani
Dying to be Me by Anita Moorjani
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Soh Wei Yu A post by Daniel Ingram this year -

“Might check out the book Real Magic, by Dean Radin, as well as some others, such as Supernormal and Entangled Minds, that is if you are interested in entertaining arguments that this stuff has long been proven and people just continue to reject it for fixed-paradigmatic/dogmatic reasons.

Might get your concentration strong, like really strong, and see what happens, as there is nothing like doing the experiment yourself to inform questions and views. That is always more satisfying than reading some words on an internet forum, and can lead to other benefits as well. Basically, if you actually care about this stuff, care about it in a way that gives you the benefits that deep, caring practice leads to. If you don't actually care that much, consider moving to a forum that is more for theoretical discussions and skepticism than practice. Talk is cheap but also typically unsatisfying in these areas for all concerned.

Haven't had anything in particular to do with Actualism in years, but did derive some interesting results from my experiments with it, and definitely don't regret that period of my practice, though I am happy that politics isn't happening now like it was then.

Best wishes,

Daniel”
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Soh Wei Yu Ken Wilber, Integral Meditation:

“These examples also point out that some of the “narrative” forms of religion that we talked about earlier are holdovers from this early Magic period in our evolution, because they take quite literally the miraculous stories in the Bible, for example (such as Moses parting the Red Sea). Even to this day, some adults are attracted to magical elements in their religion—they likely got involved with the religion in the first place because they are drawn to acts like magically walking on water, raising the dead, making the blind see, turning water into wine, and multiplying loaves and fishes. The religious practices of some sects might include things like handling live poisonous snakes, with the belief that their faith will magically protect them. (Unfortunately, a leader of one of the largest of these sects recently died, in his early 40s, after being bitten by a rattlesnake in one of these rituals.) And some present-day spiritual approaches, such as those described in The Secret and What the Bleep Do We Know? contain a heavy dose of this magic, which appeals, as we will see, to what’s called the egocentric or self-aggrandizing aspect of ourselves. This fantasy magic is a hidden

map in much of the “law of attraction” and several other New Age notions. Now, this infantile word-magic is quite different from actual paranormal capacities, such as real ESP, precognition, or telekinesis, or the value of a strongly held intention in achieving one’s goals. Strictly controlled scientific experiments have demonstrated, beyond a reasonable doubt, that some of these capacities are indeed very real.2 (footnote reference to Dr Roger Walsh, researcher in consciousness studies and related fields) But the success at these paranormal capacities seems to dramatically go down when the person is motivated by purely selfish, egocentric, narcissistic, or power drives. There’s a big difference between fantasy magic and real psychic capacities, so do keep that in mind. Now, you might have some of these essentially magical superstitious notions, but you can easily tell whether they are magical hidden maps, and not real psychic powers, by noting how many self-aggrandizing motivations are also occurring around the magic notions. If they are wishes for nothing but your own glorification, your own success, your own specialness, or for beating out all others for the prize, and you are using magical practices (which are essentially a form of exaggerated wish-fulfillment), then you might very well have a fair amount of your awareness stuck at this early stage, this magical, fantasy, egocentric stage. If so, you will take up meditation to marvelously increase your own greatness, or magically bring you boons (getting the girl, the car, the new house, the promotion), or cause you to automatically lose weight and become irresistibly gorgeous, and miraculously give you all your own egoic desires just like that!, and basically put you first and foremost in all the world (yikes!). If you have a fair number of these magical beliefs, the recommendation, of course, will be to recognize them, to recognize that hidden map in your life, see how much of your life these superstitious magical beliefs are governing, and then hold them up to direct awareness, bringing them under the sunlight of pure mindfulness and radiant presence, thus turning them into mere objects of awareness. See these beliefs as objects in your mindfulness field instead of using them as subjects, as hidden maps with which you see the world. Look at them, not through them. Look directly and intensely at them—stop looking through them or with them. Videotape them to death.”
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Soh Wei Yu
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Powers are possible due to dependent origination. If things were inherently produced and fixed, it would not arise due to causes and conditions and be immutable and fixed, and all appearances will be impossible. Then powers will be impossible, also. So the OP is correct.
On the other hand some people like Jesus interpreted their miracles to have come from other power, like an omnipotent God. This is not how Buddhadharma understands siddhis. Likewise, siddhis does not arise due to an all powerful Self or agent, as there is none.
In buddhism, powers arise due to the dependent origination and cultivation of the four bases of powers.
As Malcolm said years ago, “Nevertheless, Buddhism is a species of naturalism, asserting that everything that occurs can be explained without resort to supernatural explanations.”
Of course, he is not negating powers, but he also pointed out that even siddhis were “produced” by causes and conditions, particularly samadhi
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Soh Wei Yu
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More on the naturalism part, Malcolm wrote:
“Meanings are invented, consensual and conventional.
As for your second sentence, it is very questionable that metaphysical naturalism is necessarily grounded in utilitarianism — I think you are making too broad a claim. For example, take this definition in which there is no species of utilitarianism mentioned:
Naturalism, in recent usage, is a species of philosophical monism according to which whatever exists or happens is natural in the sense of being susceptible to explanation through methods which, although paradigmatically exemplified in the natural sciences, are continuous from domain to domain of objects and events. Hence, naturalism is polemically defined as repudiating the view that there exists or could exist any entities which lie, in principle, beyond the scope of scientific explanation.
Buddhadharma [and Jaindharma] in this respect is also a species of metaphysical naturalism — in Buddhadharma there is no mystery precisely because "whatever exists or happens is natural" and there does not exist nor could exist "any entities which lie, in principle, beyond the scope of Dharma explanation."
In other religions however [sans philosophical Taoism and Confucism], there is a profound mystery, God, through whose agency all things are created.
Indeed, this is one of the reasons why Buddhadharma is so appealing to westerners with liberal educations. The naturalism of Buddhadharma and philosophical Taoism fit well into our already metaphysically naturalist predilections.
HH Dalai Lama exemplifies this view with his confidence that indeed science can explain confirm, and justify any and all Buddhist beliefs, but even more than that, he recommends abandoning any Buddhist tenets that are directly contradicted by scientific explanation and found to be definitely false from a scientific point of view.

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Soh Wei Yu
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Also as i said to JT:

[5:11 PM, 11/10/2020] Soh Wei Yu: I think those who experience all is mind but not anatta and especially total exertion are more prone to solipsism and idealism
[6:50 PM, 11/10/2020] John Tan: Yes.
[6:52 PM, 11/10/2020] John Tan: No privileging into either pole.

6:52PM Ok The R U I A S D F G K L X c B N 123 space return'

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Soh Wei Yu
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Not implying the OP is falling into that trap though, but my previous discussion with Mr. A 2 years ago gave me an impression that his view is skewed towards that.
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Soh: actually people you met do also have past life connections and causes. like sim pern chong, the guy i mentioned above, he can recall exactly why he met his wife this life... actually in a past life he was a scientist who operated on his current wife, he was forced by the japanese government to do cruel tests on subjects. this guilt led him into tibetan buddhism and spirituality the next life and he realised the I AM in that life, and from that life he formed a connection with dzogchen teachings which also manifested in this life his interest in dzogchen even before he became a buddhist. in his previous immediate life he was living in france and could relive with his whole body the whole scene of fighting in ww1 trenches, which was really traumatising. but remembering it somehow helped him release some karmic patterns and traumas this life including a fear of military
so those intuitive people, they can sense karmic patterns and sense these connections and conditions
in the life in france he also realised I AM and was involved in western mysticism, which also is why he was involved in rosicrucian and western mysticism before his encountering of john tan

Update: Sim Pern Chong wrote, “

I had a vivid memory of a scene as a soldier running across a mud field while its being bombarded. The cold of the European dawn and the panting of running with a rifle being held by my right arm.. .i can still remember.

I wore a uniform and carry a rifle similar to the French infantry as shown in this video clip... which also summed up the insanity of war. https://youtu.be/8zcL0PuvYWo

From lifetimes to lifetimes, I find a recurring theme of certain human existence .. that is that of 'living live without the freedom of choice'.。。 '人在江湖身不由己'.”

"guilt led him into tibetan buddhism" he was a tibetan monk in that lifetime and could remember meditating overlooking vast expanse in mountains

So you mean to say that past lives is actually a "valid mode of arising" conventionally. Right?

yes.. also sim pern chong had many very interesting accounts. he could remember in details his past lives and how his wife, his daughter and his experiences in this life were all linked to specific karmic causes and relations in previous life

and how they were related in previous life and why they meet again etc

Is this not same as past life regression therapy?

Brain Weiss stuff?

not the same. there are two types, there is past life regression therapy that leads to trance like hypnotic states. that is also one way of retrieving past life memories. but for sim pern chong, his is also by way of entering samadhi and jhana, and when recalled through this way the memories were hyper vivid and real through whole body remembering, as if he was reliving the event

or as john tan also said about another practitioner in 2006,

Ok.

Session Start: Sat Feb 18 21:32:54 2006
Session Ident: ^john^
<ZeN`n1th> hi did u see the meditation post?
<^john^> just read through.
<^john^> :)
<^john^> she is not experiencing it correctly and becoz the foundation is still not strong enough, she will face problem later.
<ZeN`n1th> oic what she experienced
<ZeN`n1th> jhanas isit
<^john^> it is a sort of absorption.
<^john^> but it is not like longchen [sim pern chong] that profound.
<ZeN`n1th> oic..
<ZeN`n1th> absorption = jhana ?
<ZeN`n1th> what u mean by absorption
<^john^> and with her current stage, it is not advisable to know about reincarnation and past life regression.
<^john^> yeah
<ZeN`n1th> she wanted to know meh??
<ZeN`n1th> btw why not advisable to know about reincarnation?
<^john^> but that is my advise, some ppl are more attached to mystical experiences. :)
<ZeN`n1th> hmm but longchen [Sim Pern Chong]'s experience is not jhana rite?
<ZeN`n1th> oic..
<^john^> becoz she will not be able to cope and understand the full meaning when she recall. :)
<ZeN`n1th> oic

<^john^> when one reaches a stage of absorption, at that moment, as described in the text she posted, he will be able to recall.
<^john^> the entire body will recall, not just the mind. :)
<^john^> memories is not just in the mind. :P
<ZeN`n1th> oic...
<^john^> anyway not to indulge into such thing first, it will not be fruitful for practice.
<^john^> 🙂

this is also an interesting article:

https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books3/Ajahn_Brahm_Buddhism_and_Science.htm
If you had just one person who had been confirmed as medically dead who could describe to the doctors, as soon as they were revived, what had been said, and done during that period of death, wouldn't that be pretty convincing? When I was doing elementary particle physics there was a theory that required for its proof the existence of what was called the 'W' particle. At the cyclotron in Geneva, CERN funded a huge research project, smashing atoms together with an enormous particle accelerator, to try and find one of these 'W' particles. They spent literally hundreds of millions of pounds on this project. They found one, just one 'W' particle. I don't think they have found another since. But once they found one 'W' particle, the researchers involved in that project were given Nobel prizes for physics. They had proved the theory by just finding the one 'W' particle. That's good science. Just one is enough to prove the theory.

When it comes to things we don't like to believe, they call just one experience, one clear factual undeniable experience, an anomaly. Anomaly is a word in science for disconcerting evidence that we can put in the back of a filing cabinet and not look at again, because it's threatens our world view. It undermines what we want to believe. It is threatening to our dogma. However, an essential part of the scientific method is that theories have to be abandoned in favour of the evidence, in respect of the facts. The point is that the evidence for a mind independent of the brain is there. But once we admit that evidence, and follow the scientific method, then many cherished theories, what we call 'sacred cows' will have to be abandoned.

...

If you want to look at the scientific evidence for rebirth, check out Professor Ian Stevenson. He spent his whole life researching rebirth on a solid scientific basis at the University of Virginia.[4] Chester Carlson, the inventor of xerography, (encouraged by his wife) offered funds for an endowed chair at the University to enabled Professor Stevenson to devote himself full-time to such research. If it weren't for the fact that people do not want to believe in rebirth, Dr. Ian Stevenson would be a world famous scientist now. He even spent a couple of years as a visiting fellow of Magdalene College in Oxford, so you can see that this is not just some weird professor; he has all of the credentials of a respected Western academic.

Dr. Stevenson has over 3000 cases on his files. One interesting example was the very clear case of a man who remembered many details from his past life, with no way of gaining that information from any other source. That person died only a few weeks before he was reborn! Which raises the question, for all those months that the foetus was in the womb, who was it? As far as Buddhism is concerned, the mother kept that foetus going with her own stream of consciousness. But when another stream of consciousness entered, then the foetus became the new person. That is one case where the stream of consciousness entered the mother's womb when the foetus was almost fully developed. That can happen. That was understood by Buddhism twenty five centuries ago. If the stream of consciousness doesn't enter the mother's womb, the child is a stillborn. There is a heap of evidence supporting that.
-------
[5/12/15, 8:23:33 PM] John Tan: Go read Dr. Sam Parnia
[5/12/15, 8:26:27 PM] John Tan: He is very good like Ian Stevenson...a dr, cardiologists unlike a psychiatrist ...that deals with death everyday ... Dealing with cardio arrest and pronounced clinically dead...and a respected person in his field
[5/12/15, 8:31:51 PM] John Tan: Instead of Sam Harris
[5/12/15, 8:31:53 PM] John Tan: Lol
[5/12/15, 8:31:59 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Lol
[5/12/15, 8:32:11 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Am going to get ian stevensons book
[5/12/15, 8:33:20 PM] John Tan: Just like when u do research on past life experiences documented by ian Stevenson and his assistant ... Read his assistant account...his assistant dead if I m not wrong just to get some real account
[5/12/15, 8:33:30 PM] John Tan: Not those kind of bullshit
[5/12/15, 8:34:54 PM] John Tan: Obe and nde r not those seeing light tunnels ... Feeling peaceful...or passing electricity to pineal gland region to induce certain experience ...
[5/12/15, 8:35:43 PM] John Tan: I m interested in those accounts that dr Sam Parnia is talking abt
[5/12/15, 8:37:45 PM] John Tan: Where blood stop...brain activities stop...there is no possibility of any registering of memories or any sensory function because it is clinically impossible because he is a cardiologist and dealing with how to get ppl back to life ... He needs to know all sort of signs there and then...
[5/12/15, 8:38:34 PM] John Tan: We r talking abt life and death trying resuscitate life in emergency room...lol
[5/12/15, 8:39:11 PM] John Tan: Not as an academician taking abt this and that as a story
[5/12/15, 8:43:39 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[5/12/15, 8:49:50 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Sam harris said about ian stevensons,
[5/12/15, 8:49:55 PM] Soh Wei Yu: elaborate fraud, or something interesting is going on," Harris says. "Most scientists would say this doesn't happen. Most would say that if it does happen, it's a case of fraud. ... It's hard to see why anyone would be perpetrating a fraud -- everyone was made miserable by this [xenoglossy] phenomenon." Pressed, he admits that some of the details might after all be "fishy."
[5/12/15, 8:50:16 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Either he is a victim of truly elaborate fraud, or something interesting is going on," Harris says. "Most scientists would say this doesn't happen. Most would say that if it does happen, it's a case of fraud. ... It's hard to see why anyone would be perpetrating a fraud -- everyone was made miserable by this [xenoglossy] phenomenon." Pressed, he admits that some of the details might after all be "fishy."
[5/12/15, 8:51:02 PM] John Tan: Meaning?
[5/12/15, 8:51:55 PM] Soh Wei Yu: I think he thinks ian stevesons study might convincingly suggest reincarnation but still hs his doubts
[5/12/15, 8:55:27 PM] John Tan: There will always b doubt becoz he is a sceptic ...
[5/12/15, 8:56:45 PM] John Tan: And Ian Stevenson books r scientific studies, not science. He is a scientist but understand that science cannot prove anything like that besides verification.
[5/12/15, 8:58:00 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[5/12/15, 8:59:16 PM] John Tan: How is one to prove past life except by verification? Unlike OBE experiences, where medical definition of "death" is clear and ppl start resuscitating ppl back to life... Hearing true expert in the field is imp.
[5/12/15, 9:41:21 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[5/12/15, 9:42:57 PM] Soh Wei Yu: I guess the problem with obe is they may cast doubt whether the obe happened moments before of after the medical death. but i dont see how they can explain things like witnessing medical procedures accurately in obe
[5/12/15, 9:43:26 PM] John Tan: Not what u to think lah
[5/12/15, 9:43:47 PM] John Tan: Go listen to Sam parnia in YouTube
[5/12/15, 9:43:56 PM] John Tan: There r some that I like
[5/12/15, 9:44:03 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic.. ok
[5/12/15, 9:45:35 PM] John Tan: There r only 3 ways, one is respected expert and one u, by religious faith and lastly practice experience urself.
[5/12/15, 9:46:25 PM] John Tan: Sceptical is as bulshiting as taking by faith to me.
[5/12/15, 9:46:39 PM] John Tan: My approach is neither
[5/12/15, 9:46:54 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
[5/12/15, 9:47:06 PM] John Tan: Practice and listening to respected experts
[5/12/15, 9:49:14 PM] John Tan: I also like dr Peter Fenwick
[5/12/15, 9:57:01 PM] John Tan: There is another one Dr Pim Van Lommel
[5/12/15, 10:14:22 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic.. will look into them
..............
See: https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/summary_of_evidence
Evidence for the Afterlife
.....
For all those skeptics/materialists out there who think siddhis are woo woo, superstitions, etc, the CIA takes it seriously and has very interesting findings and research: https://www.vice.com/en/article/7k9qag/how-to-escape-the-confines-of-time-and-space-according-to-the-cia
..........
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Session Start: Wednesday, 25 April, 2007

(3:24 PM) AEN: i met with longchen just now.. hehe

(4:09 PM) AEN: we discuss alot of things hehe

(4:10 PM) AEN: he said he cant maintain deconstructed state though non dual state is effortless for him

(4:10 PM) AEN: like when talking to me he is non dual but still theres perception

(4:11 PM) AEN: anyway he also thinks buddhism has more depth than others... lol

(4:11 PM) AEN: and tinks dream interpretation got down sides like can become attached to symbolism

(4:13 PM) AEN: can u maintain deconstructed, 'bright' state when talking to ppl?

(4:13 PM) AEN: isit there must be insight into self liberation of perception or something like that?

(4:14 PM) AEN: he also told me his past lives hahaa

(4:14 PM) AEN: his father, etc

(4:14 PM) AEN: alot of other things

(4:22 PM) AEN: the reason why he became a monk was becos in a previous lifetime prior to the tibetan monk...

(4:22 PM) AEN: he was one of those scientist or something..

(4:22 PM) AEN: he was among one of them watching the scientist dissecting a body of a woman... for research i think

(4:23 PM) AEN: then suddenly the woman woke up from her unconsciousness

(4:23 PM) AEN: and was like 'why are you doing this to me??' to her horror but the other scientist didnt hear her, they're like planning what organ to take out, etc

(4:23 PM) AEN: and he felt very very guilty and felt he shld go into spirituality

(4:23 PM) AEN: so next life become tibetan monk

(4:23 PM) AEN: lol

(4:24 PM) AEN: then this life he also like to research and experiment with things

(4:24 PM) AEN: he said was bcos of imprint from past life

(4:45 PM) AEN: he said jonls's energetic expansion is due to release of the self, 'hereness', and all the attachment... but wrongly interpreted as 'arising from the gut'

(4:46 PM) AEN: he also discussed qi gong just now.. and said at different stage of realisation, the qi is different

(5:20 PM) AEN: btw he also said something like we form labels on things we experience extremely fast and we usually din notice it

(5:21 PM) AEN: symbols i tink.. dunnu wat he said.. or perception

(6:53 PM) Thusness: yes i can. :)

(6:53 PM) AEN: oic how

(6:53 PM) Thusness: and transparency. :P

(6:53 PM) Thusness: but don't get attached to states. :P

(6:53 PM) AEN: lol

(6:54 PM) AEN: but how to remain deconstruct even when there are perceptions

(6:54 PM) AEN: like when u talk to me, there has to be symbols

(6:54 PM) Thusness: we are not use to completely without symbols...but we must at least certain period during waking state. :)

(6:54 PM) Thusness: i will tell u later.

(6:54 PM) AEN: oic

(6:56 PM) Thusness: that is a form of realisation.

(6:56 PM) Thusness: i will need to explain to u the essence of non-dual thinking.

(6:57 PM) AEN: icic..

(6:57 PM) Thusness: and what david loy mean but din really grasp the essence of it.

(6:57 PM) AEN: oic..

(6:59 PM) Thusness: my the other book came. :)

(6:59 PM) Thusness: hehe

(6:59 PM) AEN: icic..

(6:59 PM) Thusness: but more of a reference.

(6:59 PM) AEN: oic

(6:59 PM) Thusness: came back early for that book.

(6:59 PM) Thusness: :P

(6:59 PM) AEN: hahaha

(6:59 PM) AEN: icic

(6:59 PM) AEN: u were having meeting just now rite?

(7:00 PM) AEN: what other book btw

(8:05 PM) AEN: longchen told me deconstruction is a state free from perception

(8:05 PM) AEN: i ask what he meant by perception

(8:05 PM) AEN: he say sensations of sound, sight, etc are all perception

(8:05 PM) AEN: then i ask if there is no perception of 5 senses and thoughts, how is that different from unconsciousness

(8:05 PM) AEN: he replied "I dunno how to explain... but there is no unconsciousness... rather there is a bliss and brightness. It is also here that one realises that thought content is the cause of much of the suffering."

(8:31 PM) Thusness: that is good. :)

(8:31 PM) Thusness: i mean what he said is quite good. :)

(8:33 PM) AEN: oic

(8:33 PM) AEN: but i still dun really understand hows tat different from unconscious

(8:33 PM) AEN: lol

(8:33 PM) AEN: can u explain

(8:33 PM) Thusness: cannot...this is not what he meant.

(8:34 PM) Thusness: what he meant is there is no differentiation of sound, sight...etc

(8:34 PM) Thusness: it becomes isness

(8:34 PM) AEN: oic...

(8:35 PM) AEN: orh so no differentiation

(8:35 PM) Thusness: means sensate reality of sound, sight..etc becomes deconstruction from meanings....and become one whole experience of Isness.

(8:35 PM) AEN: ok

(8:35 PM) Thusness: there must be clarity of it.

(8:35 PM) AEN: icic

(8:35 PM) Thusness: u r in temasek poly

(8:35 PM) AEN: yea

(8:36 PM) Thusness: but he must also know in clarity of how consciousness blind us and how subtle it is.

(8:36 PM) AEN: icic..

(8:36 PM) Thusness: and the continuous function of this habitual tendencies to blind us

(8:36 PM) AEN: icic..

(8:37 PM) Thusness: until isness and blinding become clear.

(8:37 PM) AEN: oic

(8:38 PM) AEN: means no karmic propensities left?

(8:38 PM) AEN: lol nice display pic

(8:39 PM) Thusness: u can c it?

(8:39 PM) Thusness: lol

(8:40 PM) AEN: yea lol

(8:43 PM) Thusness: so u know what longchen mean by deconstruction of perception...

(8:43 PM) Thusness: there is no sound, sight...etc

(8:44 PM) Thusness: then it is the clarity of that Isness...

(8:44 PM) AEN: icic..

(8:44 PM) Thusness: and the factors prevent that clarity of Isness as I have mentioned to jonls

(8:44 PM) AEN: oic..

(8:45 PM) Thusness: means the dropping must be thorough as a background, body then later propensities.

(8:45 PM) AEN: icic

(8:45 PM) Thusness: we are so used to perceptions and thinking

(8:45 PM) AEN: oic

(8:45 PM) Thusness: so we must get used to effortless clarity that is Isness itself

(8:46 PM) Thusness: and experience the concreteness as 'forms'

(8:47 PM) AEN: btw longchen said he said meditation can sometimes b a hindrance at latter stages

(8:47 PM) AEN: cos of a sense of wilfulness to meditate

(8:48 PM) AEN: so now his meditation is spontaneous and without will

(8:48 PM) Thusness: yes

(8:48 PM) Thusness: this is very true. :)

(8:48 PM) AEN: he meditate whenever there is opportunity to meditate.. like just now there was an overhead bridge with a nice expansive scenery hehe.. its quite long and he said he often do walking meditation there and can get v deep 'deconstructed' states

(8:48 PM) AEN: though he still sit down and meditate lah

(8:49 PM) AEN: oic

(8:49 PM) Thusness: that is very good. :)

(8:49 PM) Thusness: means is experiencing without background as Oneness...

(8:49 PM) AEN: icic..

(8:49 PM) Thusness: it must be thoroughly clear.

(8:49 PM) AEN: oic

(8:50 PM) Thusness: like what toni packer said.

(8:50 PM) AEN: icic

(8:51 PM) Thusness: meditation is the oneness clarity...when one's non-dual is up to a certain stage.

(8:51 PM) Thusness: always oneness clarity...

(8:51 PM) Thusness: till the background is completely gone...just only the obviousness

(8:52 PM) Thusness: there are differing degree...

(8:52 PM) Thusness: of clarity

(8:52 PM) AEN: oic

(8:52 PM) Thusness: then opening eyes and walking everything moment is meditation.

(8:52 PM) Thusness: it is insight meditation.

(8:52 PM) Thusness: :)

(8:52 PM) AEN: icic

(8:53 PM) Thusness: when the deconstruction is gone, sight, sound, touch....how can there be a body?

(8:53 PM) Thusness: if there is no body, how can there be an inner and outer?

(8:53 PM) AEN: oic...

(8:54 PM) Thusness: so that is why i told u i am always in no body

(8:54 PM) Thusness: not as a stage

(8:54 PM) Thusness: but as a form of realisation

(8:54 PM) AEN: icic

(8:54 PM) Thusness: as an insight

(8:54 PM) AEN: oic

(8:54 PM) AEN: longchen also no body?

(8:55 PM) Thusness: like what ur lzls said...but it is not a form of meditation but insight that has sunk deep into our consciousness

(8:55 PM) Thusness: should be...

(8:55 PM) AEN: icic.. but if 24/7 means effortless already rite

(8:55 PM) Thusness: and has to be up to this

(8:55 PM) AEN: oic

(8:55 PM) Thusness: then the background and body is drop like dogen said.

(8:55 PM) AEN: icic..

(8:56 PM) Thusness: then again like what dogen said he realised that he has come to see clearly that mountains, sky, rivers and birds are really mind. :)

(8:56 PM) Thusness: but this mind and awareness is one.

(8:56 PM) Thusness: :)

(8:56 PM) AEN: oic..

(1:32 AM) Thusness: lets say u have experience anatta, no-self, u become transparent, that is mirror bright wisdom....

(1:33 AM) AEN: icic..

(1:33 AM) AEN: but no self doesnt mean transparent?

(1:33 AM) AEN: btw transparent is deconstructed?

(1:34 AM) AEN: pathie isnt around?

(1:35 AM) Thusness: the experience of non-duality

(1:35 AM) Thusness: now actually when u have fear, the wisdom of great equality will not arise

(1:35 AM) Thusness: no matter how u bluff. :P

(1:35 AM) Thusness: how one bluff.

(1:36 AM) AEN: icic..

(1:36 AM) AEN: wat u mean by how u bluff

(1:36 AM) Thusness: so an experience of being stunt back will also mean that the wisdom of equality will not be there.

(1:36 AM) AEN: oic

(1:36 AM) AEN: but 'stunting' is used in zen and dzogchen right

(1:36 AM) AEN: like shouting, etc

(1:36 AM) AEN: haha

(1:37 AM) Thusness: don't mix zen...

(1:37 AM) Thusness: i dunno :P

(1:37 AM) AEN: btw fear has to do with attachment to body?

(1:37 AM) Thusness: i am toking about that particular experience that is real and can be experienced.

(1:37 AM) AEN: icic

(1:37 AM) AEN: u hold on ah

(1:38 AM) AEN: u heard the shouting phat practise?

(1:38 AM) AEN: this is a dzogchen pith instruction but someone on internet

(1:38 AM) AEN:

Three words strike the essential meaning.

First, keep your mind relaxed,

Not scattered, not concentrated and without divisive thoughts.

Resting in this state of even minded relaxation,

Utter a sudden mind shattering PHAT,

Forceful, vigorous and abrupt.

E MA HO! How marvellous!...

(1:38 AM) AEN:

Nothing at all!... Astonishment and wonderment!...

In this state of wonderment, all penetrating mental freedom,

An all encompassing mental freedom that is inexpressible,

Recognise this awareness, the dimension of absolute reality.

Identifying the primacy of the nature of mind is the first essential point

(1:39 AM) AEN: hmm those text also talk about self liberation

(1:39 AM) AEN:

Like a drawing on water,

There is uninterrupted self arising and self liberation:

Whatever arises is sustenance for naked awareness emptiness,

All fluctuation the creativity of the sovereign dimension of the absolutely real,

Spontaneously self purified and leaving no trace A LA LA!

The mode of arising is the same as before

(1:40 AM) AEN: *somehow on internet

(1:40 AM) Thusness: wow...

(1:40 AM) Thusness: not bad...

(1:40 AM) AEN: icic

(1:41 AM) AEN: but what about the stunting? lol

(1:42 AM) AEN: http://www.jungcircle.com/mist/buddhism.htm

(1:42 AM) Thusness: don't tink too much...that is why i don't want to tell u.

(1:42 AM) Thusness: i got to go now. :)

(1:42 AM) AEN: haha

(1:42 AM) AEN: ok gd nite

(1:43 AM) Thusness: nite.

(1:44 AM) Thusness is now Offline

(1:49 AM) AEN: continued from the last part

(1:49 AM) AEN:

But there is an immense and crucial difference in the mode of liberation,

And without it meditation is a path of delusion.

Possessing it is the state of the dimension of absolute reality beyond meditation:

Confidence in (simultaneous arising and) liberation is the third essential point.

(1:54 AM) AEN: wah so many articles on self liberation

(1:54 AM) AEN:

What is more, if practice lacks the essential method of the liberation (of thoughts) on (their) arising, since all the many discursive thoughts arising from the ongoing subconscious current of mental events become mixed with the karma of cyclic existence, whatever thoughts are generated, be they subtle or gross, it is essential that one watch their (simultaneous) arising and liberation so that not a trace is left. Thus, ... And of all adventitious thoughts without exception,...

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The Transcendent Perfection of Wisdom in Ten Thousand Lines

Daśasāhasrikāprajñāpāramitā

Chapter 13

Like Space

The non-solidity of existence

Evidence for the Afterlife

.....

For all those skeptics/materialists out there who think siddhis are woo woo, superstitions, etc, the CIA takes it seriously and has very interesting findings and research: https://www.vice.com/en/article/7k9qag/how-to-escape-the-confines-of-time-and-space-according-to-the-cia

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The Transcendent Perfection of Wisdom in Ten Thousand Lines

Daśa­sāhasrikā­prajñā­pāramitā

Chapter 13

Like Space

The non-solidity of existence

Evidence for the Afterlife

.....

For all those skeptics/materialists out there who think siddhis are woo woo, superstitions, etc, the CIA takes it seriously and has very interesting findings and research: https://www.vice.com/en/article/7k9qag/how-to-escape-the-confines-of-time-and-space-according-to-the-cia

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