'“Supernatural”
is a misnomer, and moreover is a materialist straw man fallacy. Not to
mention a semi-pejorative term wielded by materialists that is rooted in
the concept of “superstition.” In actuality, there is no such thing as
the supernatural in Buddhist teachings, only subtle aspects of dependent
origination [pratītyasamutpāda] that are usually obscured or
misunderstood.' - Kyle Dixon [krodha], 2022
https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/sph1qt/buddhism_and_the_supernatural/hwff9pf/?context=3"My advice is knowing our nature does not require us to "rojak" [Soh: turn quantum physics and spirituality into an eclectic mix] them at all and the benefits of practice is something very tangible. It can be realized, known and experienced including the supramadane abilities of buddha and bodhisattvas, the sambhogakaya body and buddhafields to those that r serious in practice. They maybe myth to some but not myth to me, at least it can be verified by first person experiences (imo) regardless how science think and that are already enough for me to cope." - John Tan, 2022
Jared K Jones:
I would say that after thorough investigation, there are
reasons in terms of philosophy, physics, and direct observation to think
that these sorts of phenomena are not
mere descriptive fancy, nor so-called “skillful” lies to gain followers.
For practical examples, look at monks who do Tummo. They
generate heat in a part of the body where there is no physical basis for such
heat. Then they manipulate that heat at will and move it up the spinal column.
There was also a case of a very old Hindu yogi who
attained Samadhi and stopped eating or drinking. He was studied by doctors in a
continuous isolation chamber for 10 days, who concluded that - not only was he
not dying of starvation or dehydration - he was in great health.
Further, we now have - thanks to the Dalai Lama - brain
scans of yogis who have held themselves in the post-death state for several
weeks. They didn’t decompose and had brain activity after death for extended
periods of time, indicating consciousness when the body is medically dead.
The marathon monks of Mt. Hiei who have committed to the
7 year cycle only eat one small meal a day, a starvation died of 900-1,200
calories, while hiking between 6-16 hours a day. They should be dead, medically
speaking.
We also have accounts from modern times like those found
in “Yogis of Tibet” where high lamas exhibit extraordinary miracles, like
leaving footprints in solid rock.
Milarepa famously did this same demonstration many times
for students, to show that the external world is merely a manifestation of
mind. When the mind is fully tamed and awakened, the external world is entirely
fluid. His handprint - from one of his meditation caves - is attached.
Great masters often also generate relics and signs in the
ashes of their funeral pyres: pearls, handprints, pieces of jade, and so on.
Having known people through the grape vine who have been involved in the
collection of such relics, it is done with the utmost integrity.
When you read Vimalakirti, this is not allegorical or
simply a creative narrative, in my view. In relativity, the observer is at the
center. Events are different physically for different observers: different
numbers of particles, different speeds in time, different sizes, different
sequences of events, and so on.
For one observer, x happens first, then y. For another, y
first, then x. For another, xy happens at the same time. And in one
perspective, neither happens. All four can occur simultaneously with regards to
the same so-called “external” thing. This is just Western physics!
So, when Vimalakirti causes the room to expand or
mountain chairs to appear from other realms, there is no reason that his should
effect the perception of the surrounding people living in the city around him.
It’s simply the activity which is possible for a mind which has realized the
objects of experience are inseparable from a creative-knowing factor.
....Honestly,
it took me a long time looking at emptiness, the conventional nature of
mind, and modern physics - as well as examples like the above - to say
that these things are most likely true. I’m about 80% convinced.
....
Andersine Thank you! It saddens me to see Buddhists
rejecting these ideas based upon our current scientific-materialist mythology.
Stanford professors are literally saying, “Is there a
universe when we aren’t looking?”
And saying “Information is what the universe is made of,
and information is merely mental. So, the universe is fundamentally mental.”
And we have Einstein saying (paraphrased), “The physical
properties of the events depend on the observer, not only the event itself. The
event can happen physically in two different ways simultaneously, depending
upon two different reference frames.”
This is our own culture telling us it’s non-dual! It’s
empty of self-character. The physical matter is empty and only arises with the
observer. Time is empty and only occurs from a reference frame.
There is no “past event” which determines what happens
now! It’s physically a different universe for all observers. Western physicists
at major universities are (quite literally) saying these things.
----
The purpose of practicing dharma is for awakening and liberation, not siddhis. See Chinese video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaHEmOz4b-M
========================
Session Start: Tuesday, April 17, 2007
(11:14 PM) AEN: btw wat u think about the supernatural topic (someone trained in shamatha asking for advice on development of siddhis/powers)
(11:14 PM) AEN: lol
(11:16 PM) Thusness: i wish i can discuss with him but he is not the person for me to discuss. :)
(11:16 PM) AEN: huh why
(11:16 PM) Thusness: anyway unless i am an irresponsible person, i will not discuss such thing in public forum.
(11:17 PM) AEN: oic
(11:17 PM) AEN: why is he not for u to discuss
(11:17 PM) Thusness: though i would very much like to.
(11:17 PM) AEN: icic
(11:18 PM) Thusness: infact i have been looking for someone that have perfected non-duality to writing something about non locality, i have told u b4.
(11:18 PM) AEN: oic
(11:18 PM) AEN: so wat r u saying.. u wan to discuss supernatural powers and non locality with someone?
(11:18 PM) AEN: as in someone non dual
(11:19 PM) Thusness: someone that has deep experience in non duality. :)
(11:19 PM) AEN: icic.. so tats why u don wan to discuss with the forum guy? cos he's not non dual yet?
(11:19 PM) Thusness: i do not wish to tok to ppl in samatha meditation.
(11:19 PM) AEN: why
(11:20 PM) Thusness: and only when i know the person is already enlightened. :)
(11:20 PM) Thusness: otherwise there is no point.
(11:21 PM) Thusness: and i do not want ppl to misinterpret the nature of these experiences.
(11:21 PM) Thusness: i also do not like ppl to bullshit about these experiences.
(11:21 PM) Thusness: and also do not like ppl to make fun of these experiences.
(11:21 PM) Thusness: lol
(11:21 PM) AEN: what u mean by bullshit and make fun
(11:21 PM) Thusness: i might leave something b4 my i die.
(11:21 PM) AEN: leave what?
(11:22 PM) Thusness: my experiences and how to get access to it after non-duality.
(11:22 PM) AEN: oic wat sort of experiences?
(11:22 PM) Thusness: u r not enlightened yet. :P
(11:22 PM) AEN: about supernatural powers? lol
(11:23 PM) Thusness: yeah. :)
(11:23 PM) Thusness: ur mind is not stable yet.
(11:23 PM) AEN: oic btw wats the uses of supernatural powers.. how can supernatural power help one and others
(11:24 PM) AEN: my mind not stable means?
(11:25 PM) Thusness: with ur current state of mind, u will not be able to correctly absorb in whatever aspect.
(11:26 PM) Thusness: whatever that is necessary are already stated in sutras
(11:26 PM) Thusness: there is really no point bringing it out to discuss.
(11:26 PM) Thusness: what one experiences for me is to break the perceptual bond that prevent us from knowing some subtle aspects of our mind.
(11:27 PM) Thusness: that is too difficult to break by merely just accepting things.
(11:28 PM) Thusness: the way to access to paranormal experiences differs.
(11:28 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:28 PM) Thusness: however for one that has stabilize non dual path, it is the natural progression to experience something non-local
(11:28 PM) Thusness: some non-local aspect of our nature.
(11:29 PM) Thusness: to understand our nature.
(11:29 PM) Thusness: what good is there really to discuss the non local aspect of it besides that?
(11:29 PM) Thusness: i do not like to call it supernatural power.
(11:29 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:30 PM) Thusness: u can c that i seldom call it so.
(11:30 PM) Thusness: i call it non local aspects of our nature.
(11:30 PM) AEN: icic
(11:30 PM) Thusness: as it is part of our nature.
(11:30 PM) Thusness: in line with emptiness.
(11:30 PM) Thusness: i do not like to deviate from the profound teachings of emptiness.
(11:30 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:31 PM) Thusness: of our nature. :)
(11:31 PM) AEN: icic
(11:31 PM) Thusness: that is why i also do not wish to discuss with anyone that is on concentration.
(11:31 PM) Thusness: coz it is not about wisdom and our nature.
(11:32 PM) AEN: btw theres difference rite between someone who gain those powers from concentration, and those who become enlightened and those so called powers actually arise from prajna?
(11:32 PM) Thusness: if u want to know, know what is our nature and practice.
(11:32 PM) AEN: icic
(11:32 PM) Thusness: i do not know, i have not discussed with them. :)
(11:36 PM) Thusness: first is the realisation.
(11:36 PM) AEN: what u mean
(11:36 PM) Thusness: u must realise what is meant by non duality.
(11:36 PM) Thusness: what is no-self
(11:36 PM) Thusness: realisation.
(11:37 PM) AEN: icic
(11:37 PM) Thusness: like longchen
(11:37 PM) Thusness: experience it.
(11:37 PM) Thusness: then ur dualistic thought will continue to confuse u.
(11:37 PM) Thusness: it is not easy to overcome
(11:37 PM) Thusness: until it has sunk so deep into ur consciousness
(11:37 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:38 PM) Thusness: that one day ur realisation and action become one...
(11:38 PM) Thusness: somehow u 'see' the pathless path towards non dual at every moment.
(11:39 PM) Thusness: but due to attachments, the experience of non duality through wisdom will not be thorough.
(11:39 PM) Thusness: so u must practice the other 5 paramitas
(11:39 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:40 PM) Thusness: then non dual in action can become one....to clear other forms of attachments and to further experience our boundless nature.
(11:40 PM) Thusness: but some of these bonds can be cleared if one is able to have non local experiences.
(11:40 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:41 PM) Thusness: certain attachments will subside due to these experiences.
(11:41 PM) Thusness: but the practice of the other 5 parimatas are more thorough.
(11:41 PM) Thusness: non local aspects of our nature if without sufficient wisdom will have side effects.
(11:42 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:42 PM) AEN: what side effects
(11:42 PM) AEN: 5 paramitas how does it help
(11:42 PM) AEN: in non attachment?
(11:42 PM) Thusness: to me side effects is always creating perceptual bond on other aspects.
(11:42 PM) Thusness: u eliminate one and u add 3.
(11:42 PM) Thusness: :)
(11:42 PM) AEN: oic...
(11:43 PM) Thusness: if non local aspects is experienced and u unknowingly add to our ego other form of bonds, then it is quite difficult to break.
(11:44 PM) Thusness: coz it was caused by non local experiences.
(11:44 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:44 PM) AEN: u mean like being identified/attached to having supernatural powers?
(11:45 PM) Thusness: one of them.
(11:45 PM) Thusness: or u may visit other realms and get attached?
(11:45 PM) Thusness: or u may contact spirits and be attached and dwell with them...
(11:45 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:45 PM) Thusness: u do not know... when u dwell...
(11:46 PM) Thusness: u may sink into deeper illusion into the realm that u have created without knowing
(11:46 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:46 PM) Thusness: it is not just a matter of ego. :)
(11:47 PM) AEN: yea teacher chen said
(11:47 PM) Thusness: it is our wisdom and clarity have not penetrated to the depth of seeing through these states.
========================