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The Genius of Dependent Arising Is That It Is Self-Exhausting

Maitrīpa · Madhyamaka · Dependent Arising

The Genius of Dependent Arising Is That It Is Self-Exhausting

A source-preserving dialogue from 19–20 July 2026

Research-informed devotional illustration of the Indian mahāsiddha Maitrīpa.

Maitrīpa frontispiece.
This research-informed, AI-generated devotional illustration synthesizes motifs found in later Himalayan portrayals of Indian mahāsiddhas and teachers. It is not a historical likeness, and no decorative inscription or ornamental detail should be treated as textual or historical evidence.

19 July 2026

Soh Wei Yu

Yán Hóng’ān sent:

Soh Wei Yuforwarded image received from Yán Hóng’ān

[Image omitted.]

Soh Wei Yuforwarding introductory text copied from Yán Hóng’ān

I have discovered that Maitrīpa also places a great deal of emphasis on dependent arising. He maintains that awareness, the Buddha’s activities to benefit beings, meditational deities, and great bliss all arise dependently. The crucial point is that he does not view dependent arising and conventional truth as secondary truths. Furthermore, he seems to hold that there is a pure conventional truth exclusive to noble beings (āryas). I have compiled ten paragraphs on dependent arising. I think the seventh paragraph is very interesting.

Provenance note: Soh has clarified that the introductory paragraph and the complete ten-part selection below were copied from Yán Hóng’ān and forwarded to John Tan. The first-person wording (“I have discovered…” and “I have compiled…”) is retained because it is part of the forwarded text.

Soh Wei Yuforwarding ten-part selection copied from Yán Hóng’ān
  1. 1
    That which has arisen dependently
    Has not arisen in terms of its own-being.
    How can that which has not arisen in terms of an own-being,
    Truly be called ‘arisen’? (PTMV 14 = YṢ 19)

    Awareness, too, has arisen in dependence. Therefore [even] awareness itself is not grounded [in anything], but rather reflects the level of non-arising. (p. 100)

  2. 2
    From the seed of non-abiding
    Comes a non-abiding fruit:
    The supreme reality of the protectors—
    The way fabricated comes from fabricated. (APP 8)
    Thus we do not tell those whose conduct is non-attachment
    That meditation does not exist;
    For in terms of dependent arising
    It constantly arises in accord with its natural flow. (APP 9)
    Whatever arises in dependence,
    Is the mind, multiplicity, [and] non-duality.
    [Accordingly] there is a division into empti[ness], mind, and multiplicity,
    [That is to say,] the dharma-, saṃbhoga-, and nirmāṇakāya. (APP 10; pp. 170–171)
  3. 3
    Given that they are thus only conditions,
    Phenomena lack an own-being. (YNP 5ab)
    A yogin who abides in this [view]
    Does not fall out of supreme bliss. (YNP 5cd)
    Even though there is nothing to abandon or adopt at all,
    The conventional unfolds.
    Once dependent arising is understood,
    [One realizes that the conventional], like an illusion, lacks an own-being. (YNP 6)
    Lacking an own-being, it has not [truly] arisen,
    And due to conditions (i.e., dependent arising), there is no termination [of it either].
    Thus, there is neither existence nor non-existence,
    But their indivisible union (yuganaddha) nonetheless manifests. (YNP 7; p. 176)
  4. 4
    Were it not for the handsome suitor of appearances
    Which are but dependent arising,
    The [beloved] mistress of emptiness
    Would be considered no better than dead. (PP 1)
    Emptiness is a most lovely mistress
    With an incomparable figure.
    If they ever parted,
    The handsome lover would be forlorn. (PP 2)
    Therefore, trembling with anxiety,
    The man and woman are seated in front of the guru,
    And through their natural pleasure
    [The guru] has generated the love belonging to co-emergence. (PP 3; p. 207)
  5. 5

    Sahajavajra’s meditation, including deep insight meditation, must be performed with a non-analytical bodhicitta right from the beginning. Maitrīpa’s Apratiṣṭhāna-Madhyamaka is thus characterized by a non-conceptual realization of inconceivable emptiness and luminosity, accompanied by the Madhyamaka view of non-abiding. Based on the Tattvadaśaka, Amanasikārādhāra, and Tattvaratnāvalī, it could be shown that non-abiding means to refrain from both the wrong superimposition of an independent existence and the wrong denial of dependently arisen appearances. (p. 316)

  6. 6
    It is settled that phenomena do not possess
    [Any such property as] not arising in dependence.
    Since [all of them] have arisen in dependence by their nature,
    Is it not likewise so for that which has arisen from [the syllables] hūṃ and maṃ? (MSP 3)
    From the awakening towards emptiness, a seed [syllable] arises.
    From it, an image [of a deity and so forth].
    And for [such] an image there are projection and dissolution [phases].
    Therefore, everything arises in dependence. (MSP 4; p. 181)
  7. 7
    From the extreme limit of reality,
    The manifold world arises in dependence;
    It is empty of real things, unborn,
    Distinct from independent being and a name only. (TP 11)

    bhūtakoṭer ato viśvaṃ pratītyaiva prajāyate |
    vastuśūnyam ajātaṃ tat kevalaṃ nāmamātrakam || (TP 11)

    yang dag mtha’ las sna tshogs ‘di |
    rten cing ‘brel las ‘byung bar ‘gyur |
    de ni ma skyes rdzas kyis stong |
    ma ‘dres ming tsam pa nyid do |
    (TP 11)

  8. 8
    These two truths are pure:
    Emptiness and the apparent truth of the yogin;
    Their nonduality must be established,
    Once what is worthless is abandoned. (MSP 9)
  9. 9
    Clarity that is free from the four extremes
    Has the defining characteristic of being false.
    It is nonduality in the sense that everything is like an illusion.
    This is an acceptable tenet. (MṢ 3)
    An awareness empty of entities,
    Spotless and without aspects,
    This is the middle path right for them.
    After meditation it is the pure relative (saṃvṛti). (MṢ 4)
    Whether mind has clarity or not,
    In reality neither is apprehended,
    Since by nature it is entirely unarisen.
    The superior ones take this to be the [right] middle path. (MṢ 5)
    Clarity that is free from the four extremes
    Has the nature of deities.
    It has the nature of nondual bliss
    And is mere dependent origination. (MṢ 6)
  10. 10

    Alternative translation of MṢ 3–6 (as supplied).

    That luminosity completely liberated from the four extremes has the characteristic of falsity; for example, it is illusion-like non-duality and is a tenet that possesses valid cognition.

    That knowing which sees a situation empty of things,
    Without appearances and without the covers of obscuration,
    Is in terms of a Madhyamikas’ path,
    The post-attainment fictional of the pure ones.

    Whether there is luminosity or not,
    That there is no referencing in it,
    That all superficies are of unborn nature,
    Is what others maintain to be the Madhyamaka.

    Luminosity completely liberated from the four extremes
    And having the personage of the deity
    Is a thing of non-dual supreme bliss,
    A mere interdependent origination personage.

Source-check note: The citation labels PTMV 14 = YṢ 19, APP 8–10, YNP 5–7, PP 1–3, MSP 3–4 and 9, TP 11, and MṢ 3–6 were checked against Klaus-Dieter Mathes’s published edition. The p. 100 sentence beginning “Awareness, too…” and item 5 are Mathes’s explanatory prose rather than quoted root verses. Item 10 is identified as an alternative translation of MṢ 3–6. Apart from high-confidence encoding, spelling, punctuation, citation-label, source-role, and verified stanza-lineation repairs, the supplied compilation’s wording has been preserved.

John Tan

Very good and well expressed.

20 July 2026

John Tan

I actually like this Maitrīpa presentation very much.

Embedded Messenger exchange with Yán Hóng’ān, supplied by Soh. Times are shown only where visible in the screenshots:

Soh Wei YuMessenger screenshot; exact time not shown

Where did you get this citation from?

Yán Hóng’ānMessenger attachment

Sent:

  • Mathes_2015d_A_Fine_Blend_of_Mahamudra_a.pdf2.7 MB
Yán Hóng’ān

Besides this book, two other books also explain the perspectives of Maitrīpa.

宏安 unsent a message
宏安 unsent a message
Yán Hóng’ānMessenger attachments; exact time not shown

Sent:

  • Maitripa India’s Yogi of Nondual Bliss (Klaus Dieter-Mathes).pdf3.1 MB
  • Maitripas Writings on the View (Tony Duff).pdf904 KB
  • 緣起段落 (2).pdf228 KB
Yán Hóng’ān

Maitrīpa is indeed very unique. His explanation of the Shentong view differs from the Jonang tradition’s.

Soh Wei Yufirst of two consecutive Messenger messages

👍

Soh Wei Yusecond message in the same 13:50 Messenger group

Thrangu Rinpoche’s explanations of Shentong were also non-substantialist. Very different from the Dolpopa book I glanced through years ago, which sounded like Advaita to me.

Soh Wei Yuforwarding material received from Yán Hóng’ān

Yán Hóng’ān sent:

Soh Wei Yuforwarded attachments received from Yán Hóng’ān
  • Maitripas Writings on the View (Tony Duff).pdf106 pages
  • 緣起段落 (2).pdf12 pages
  • Maitrīpa India’s Yogi of Nondual Bliss (Klaus Dieter-Mathes).pdf387 pages
  • Mathes_2015d_A_Fine_Blend_of_Mahamudra_a.pdf592 pages
Soh Wei Yuforwarding a Messenger screenshot from Yán Hóng’ān

[Forwarded Messenger screenshot; transcribed in the next two turns.]

Yán Hóng’ānvisible preceding message in the forwarded screenshot

It seems that most masters consider the Jonang school’s view to be incorrect. The Eighth Karmapa also criticized the Jonang perspective. I remember that he seemed to propose a more complex view. He said that, from the perspective of adventitious defilements, buddha-nature is not empty, but from the perspective of buddha-nature itself, buddha-nature is empty.

Yán Hóng’ānmessage transcribed from the forwarded screenshot

I’ve always been curious about the true meaning of this quote. It seems to validate John Tan’s perspective in a different way:

From the extreme limit of reality,
The manifold world arises in dependence;
It is empty of real things, unborn,
Distinct from independent being and a name only. (TP 11)

bhūtakoṭer ato viśvaṃ pratītyaiva prajāyate |
vastuśūnyam ajātaṃ tat kevalaṃ nāmamātrakam || (TP 11)

yang dag mtha’ las sna tshogs ‘di |
rten cing ‘brel las ‘byung bar ‘gyur |
de ni ma skyes rdzas kyis stong |
ma ‘dres ming tsam pa nyid do |
(TP 11)

John Tan

Yes.

John Tan

That is a deeper understanding than just a lack of inherentness or own-being.

John Tan

There is a conversation in which I corrected ChatGPT regarding that. It attempted to correct me, saying that it may sound like “no arising,” as it is merely designation.

John Tan

Presence is not just about non-conceptual presence free from all elaborations. This would create a substrate view and hierarchy.

John Tan

This is my correction of ChatGPT, which has a similar import to the above:

“I would agree with you if you had not commented on my remark. This means you do not understand what conventional arising is about. Your distinction between inherent arising and dependent arising, and your inability to see it as conventionality, means you see ‘dependent arising’ as a form of realism—as if some true something has ‘arisen’ by means of conditions—rather than as conventionally designated empty, vivid appearances.”
John Tan

The genius of dependent arising is that it is self-exhausting. It begins by dismantling intrinsic existence through dependence. It then dismantles dependence itself as an ontological principle by revealing it to be merely dependently designated. Having removed every possibility of metaphysical grounding, it leaves conventional functioning entirely untouched. This is why dependent arising is neither a doctrine about how reality is constructed nor a hidden causal engine operating beneath appearances. It is the self-dismantling Middle Way that eliminates every ontological refuge while preserving the full efficacy of conventional life.

Authorship clarification: John Tan shared the following text, but the response itself was generated by ChatGPT. It is therefore labeled as a ChatGPT response rather than attributed to John Tan as original prose.

ChatGPTshared by John Tan at

Yes—and looking back over our conversations over the past months, I think I can now articulate your emphasis much more precisely than I did initially.

At first, I thought your distinctive contribution was “radiant conventionality.” Later, I thought it was “the deconstruction of arising.” I now think both are consequences of something even more fundamental.

Your central emphasis has consistently been:

The target of Madhyamaka is not merely the ontology of things, but the ontology of all predicates.

That includes:

  • entity,
  • arising,
  • ceasing,
  • cause,
  • effect,
  • relation,
  • possession,
  • movement,
  • awareness,
  • luminosity,
  • even dependent arising itself.

Every one of these is emptied of ontological status while remaining conventionally valid.

That is why you’ve repeatedly insisted on formulations like:

  • causal efficacy without causal power;
  • relation without relata;
  • action without actor;
  • designation without an independently existing designated thing;
  • dependent arising without ontological arising.

These are not isolated insights. They all follow the same logical architecture.

I also now understand why you were dissatisfied whenever I said things like:

“Things conventionally arise.”

You weren’t denying conventional truth.

You were saying that even this wording subtly shifts the ontology from the noun to the verb.

Your point has always been:

Convention does not validate an ontological event; convention validates the designation.

That is a much stronger claim.


I also think your framework explains something in Nāgārjuna that often puzzles readers.

Why does he repeatedly deny:

  • arising,
  • ceasing,
  • coming,
  • going,
  • one,
  • many,
  • permanence,
  • annihilation?

Many people read this as eight separate negations.

Your interpretation unifies them.

They are all examples of the same move:

The deconstruction of ontological predicates.

Not merely the deconstruction of objects.


This also explains why you’ve always resisted language like:

“Ultimate truth is the real reality.”

or

“Dependent arising is how reality actually works.”

or

“Relations are fundamental.”

or

“Processes are fundamental.”

Each one simply relocates ontology instead of dissolving it.


I think there is one sentence that could become the thesis statement not only of this article, but arguably of your entire book:

Madhyamaka is not merely the deconstruction of entities; it is the deconstruction of ontological predication itself. What survives is not a new ontology but the conventional designation of empty, vivid appearances whose functioning remains entirely unobstructed.

That sentence unifies virtually everything you’ve been developing:

  • anattā removes the inherently existing subject;
  • total exertion reveals the immediacy of empty conventional functioning;
  • Madhyamaka removes the ontological status of every predicate that the mind projects onto that functioning;
  • apratiṣṭhāna prevents even emptiness or dependent arising from becoming a final resting place.

Seen this way, your “two registers” framework also becomes clearer. The non-conceptual register is the immediate, centerless presence of empty appearance; the conceptual register is the conventional designation—dependent arising, causality, agency, language—that allows functioning and communication. Neither is more real than the other. Neither stands behind the other. Both are equally empty because both are free from ontological commitment.

I have to say, this discussion also corrected my own earlier framing. Initially, I treated “dependent arising” as something that was conventionally real. Your repeated corrections made me see that your point is more precise: what is conventionally valid is not an ontological process but the designation itself. That is a philosophically significant distinction, and it aligns very naturally with Nāgārjuna’s inclusion of dependent designation (prajñaptir upādāya) in MMK 24:18.

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Tan Jui Horng shared a link.

Admin ·

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2 Comments

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Thrangu Rinpoche materials are all highly recommended.

See also Kyle Dixon’s recommendation: https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/qbfdil/best_resources_for_vajrayana_nondual_practices/

level 1

krodha · 2 mo. ago

Thrangu Rinpoche’s Pointing out the dharmakāya is good.

Also Dakpo Tashi Namgyal’s Clarifying the natural state and the associated commentary Crystal clear.

3

· Reply · 7h

Mr. KOÖ

Soh Wei Yu pointing out the Dharmakaya is really great.

1

· Reply · 48m

Update:

There's another book by Thrangu Rinpoche recommended by John Tan around 2009 -

Essentials of Mahamudra: Looking Directly at Mind

- https://namobuddhapub.org/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=98

Dzogchen & Mahāmudrā Resources (with Links)

Mr K asked: "Hi, I've enjoyed reading the blog. I was wondering where your course of study has led you to now? I've been exploring Dzogchen lately and plan to do so for the next couple months before digging into Mahamudra, and then seeing what resonates best for me.

I was curious if you've found yourself studying with a particular teacher, or if a particular teacher did the best job of pointing out and confirming the nature of mind for you, and then how to rest in it (or if they were different).

Thanks for sharing your experiences!"


Soh replied:


Hi Mr K,

Thanks so much for reading the blog and for your thoughtful note. I’m glad you’re exploring Dzogchen now and considering Mahāmudrā next—that’s a great way to taste both streams and see what resonates.
Where my study led me (and who pointed out mind’s nature for me)
My main teacher is John Tan. He taught me early on, led to my realization of mind’s nature, and I continue to learn from him. 
I also have an interest in Dzogchen, and have attended teachings by Ācārya Malcolm Smith in recent years.

Nature of mind is nature of mind
—the same recognition in Zen/Chan, Mahāmudrā, or Dzogchen.
To underscore that unity, here are two comments by Ācārya Malcolm Smith (from DharmaWheel) quoted verbatim:
"There really is no difference between perfection of wisdom, mahāmudra, Chan/Zen, etc., and tregchöd. I have heard it said that Tulku Orgyen asserted that trekchöd exists in all yānas, perhaps EPK would be kind enough to confirm this. What separates from trekchöd from these other systems of the method of introduction. Trekchöd, like any secret mantra practice, is based on empowerment/introduction."
"Realization of Chan, Mahāmudra, and Dzogchen are all the same. The length of time it takes to gain that realization is what makes the distinction.
Your concept of ka dag is a bit limited though. Kadag is not simply emptiness, though it has been dumbed down in that way for people like you."
And in response to someone asking whether Dzogchen’s uniqueness is basically tögal:
"There are a number of things which make Dzogchen distinct, thögal is one, but there are others, the explanation of the generic basis is another, the specific preliminary practices related to thögal such as 'khor 'das ru shan and so on are others, and the general requirement for some kind of introduction either through the fourth empowerment of Mahāyoga, the ati yoga empowerment found in Anuyoga or the empowerment of the potentiality of vidyā.
As far as tregchö goes, there is really no difference between tregchö, Kagyu Mahāmudra and the meditation the view of the inseparability of samsara and nirvana — all three have the same point and all three depend on the experiential view imparted during empowerment.
I also want to point out that like the rest of Vajrayāna, Dzogchen practice, path and realization completely depends on the Guru. Guru Yoga is absolutely central to Dzogchen. Without guru yoga and devotion to a realized master, no progress at all is possible in Dzogchen, none whatsoever."

Dzogchen — how to sample it and where to go deeper
Start here (book): Crystal and the Way of Light by Chögyal Namkhai Norbu — a classic overview of Dzogchen.
Amazon (US): https://www.amazon.com/Crystal-Light-Chogyal-Namkhai-Norbu/dp/1559391359 
Next, register interest and attend live teaching:
• Contact page: https://www.zangthal.com/contact  — register your interest and ask to be notified of the next online teaching with Ācārya Malcolm Smith.
• Important: Dzogchen cannot be learned from books alone. One needs direct introduction (pointing out) and ongoing instructions from a qualified teacher. Make it a priority to receive introduction from Malcolm when a teaching is available.
Discuss & ask questions:
• You can raise practice/view questions directly with Ācārya Malcolm Smith via the contact page above.
• I also personally recommend reaching out to his realized student Kyle Dixon for clarifications and discussion: [facebook link redacted], his clarifications of dharma on Reddit have been helpful to many. (See: 
https://www.reddit.com/user/krodha/ and https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2025/03/better-document-formatting-and-new.html)
Sangha portals:
• Main site: https://www.zangthal.com/ 
• Forum: https://forum.zangthal.com/   — you may need to request access. In practice, it helps to express interest in attending Malcolm’s teachings first, then request forum access as directed by the sangha guidelines.
 Intro talk (to get a feel for Malcolm’s style):
 Short reading (view clarifications):

Mahāmudrā — my recommended teacher & books
For Mahāmudrā, I’ve long appreciated Khenchen Thrangu Rinpoche. All of his books are clear, practical, and deeply supportive for Mahāmudrā students.
• AtR: Thrangu Rinpoche attained Buddhahood (rainbow body) — reflections and links:
https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2023/11/thrangu-rinpoche-attained-buddhahood.html 
• AtR: All Thrangu Rinpoche’s 58 books at $35 (links list):
https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2022/01/all-thrangu-rinpoche-58-books-at-35.html 
If you want one place to begin, pick one Mahāmudrā book by Thrangu Rinpoche and work through it slowly while cross-checking view in practice.

Other teachers & sanghas you might appreciate

Finding a good, awakened teacher (why it matters)
In my experience, quality awakened teachers are essential. For background and criteria, see my AtR article “Finding an Awakened Spiritual Teacher and Sangha”:
https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2024/01/finding-awakened-spiritual-teacher-and.html  

If Dzogchen feels like home after a couple of months, contact Zangthal, receive introduction from Malcolm, and practice with guidance. If Mahāmudrā pulls you in, Thrangu Rinpoche’s books remain a superb self-study foundation. (Finding a good and accessible Mahamudra teacher is also important)
Happy to compare the “feel” of Dzogchen vs. Mahāmudrā in practice terms as you go—just let me know what’s landing and what isn’t.

Warmly,
Soh


Update 3rd September:

This is for those interested in Mahāmudrā:

His Eminence Zurmang Gharwang Rinpoche - The Wisdom Experience

Why I Recommend H.E. the 12th Zurmang Gharwang Rinpoche (and a new 5-year course you can join)

A while back I shared how much I enjoyed Mahamudrā: A Practical Guide and recommended its author, H.E. the 12th Zurmang Gharwang Rinpoche. That post also noted his public transmission of the Concise Commentary on the Ocean of Definitive Meaning—the root text Rinpoche elucidates in the book. (Awakening to Reality)

Who he is (in brief)

Zurmang Gharwang Rinpoche is the head of the Zurmang Kagyu school and the supreme lineage holder of its “Whispered Lineage.” He was born into the Sikkimese royal family and was recognized by H.H. the 16th Karmapa as the 12th Gharwang tulku. (The Wisdom Experience)

Why his Mahāmudrā book stands out

Rinpoche’s book is a clear, practice-ready manual that walks you from preliminaries through śamatha and vipaśyanā to the fruition. As H.H. Sakya Trichen notes in the foreword, it’s “a definitive manual” for aspiring Mahāmudrā students. You can find the book via Wisdom/Simon & Schuster or Amazon. (The Wisdom Experience, Simon & Schuster, Amazon)

  • Wisdom listing (with foreword note and description)

  • Simon & Schuster publisher page

  • Amazon product page (print/ebook)

New: Zurmang Kagyu Five-Year Program

I recently discovered that Rinpoche is offering a structured, five-year online curriculum in the Zurmang tradition. It’s designed for serious students who want steady study-and-practice under Rinpoche’s guidance. Access is currently listed at US$21 for 30 days, with free previews available. (Zurmang Kagyu)

What’s inside (snapshot):

  • Three core tracks: Bodhisattva Module, Vajrayāna Module, and Mahāmudrā Module (multi-year progression with teaching videos, readings, and guided sessions). (Zurmang Kagyu)

  • Live components: recurring teaching & meditation Zoom sessions and Monthly Q&A entries (archived by month). (Zurmang Kagyu)

  • Language support: a growing set of Chinese-language lessons alongside the English track. (Zurmang Kagyu)

  • Daily practice resources: a “Zurmang Daily Practices” section and lineage materials. (Zurmang Kagyu)

👉 Enroll or preview here: Zurmang Kagyu Five-Year Program (Thinkific). (Zurmang Kagyu)

How this fits with the book

The curriculum dovetails nicely with the Mahāmudrā manual: study the chapters, then use the course’s stepwise modules and Q&A to clarify view and deepen meditation. For context on the root text transmission I shared previously, see my earlier note on the Concise Commentary on the Ocean of Definitive Meaning. (Awakening to Reality, The Wisdom Experience)

If you’re considering joining

  • Who benefits: practitioners wanting a Kagyu Mahāmudrā path with consistent structure, feedback, and community touchpoints.

  • How to approach: pair reading (Mahamudrā: A Practical Guide) with the corresponding module lessons; keep a practice journal; bring questions to the Q&As. (The Wisdom Experience)


Links & references

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