Hii , would anybody tell me the difference between being aware and becoming absorbed
Because in both situations , there seems to be no "I"
Reply part 1:
Absorption not aware of other things? This is difficult to say.
Although many articles and books about mindfulness seem to suggest that
it is so, this is not necessarily true when we progress towards the more
subtle experience. Clarity can come a time where it is so clear that it
is an absorption, it is a sort of Insight-Absorption but It is
different from absorption derived from concentration. It is clarity
absorption where it touches the heart of 'things', that is itself. For
example being taste itself, it is absorbed yet completely clear. This
is truly blissful and beyond description. I have not come across any
book touching this yet and I hope Toni's new book can write something
about it. :)
Reply part 2:
The AMness can be said to be a
form of absorption where the object of concentration is the Self. It
can be a question "Who am I" that leads one to the experience of the
subject-object becoming one. Till a point the practitioner simply
experiences a pure sense of existence. However such mode of experience
has no understanding of its luminous clarity and its nature as anatta.
The key point about mindful awareness is there is no keeping of the mind
on anything and by not resting on anything, it fuses into everything;
therefore it cannot be concentrated; rather it is to relax into
nothingness empty of self, empty of any artificial doing so that the
natural luminosity can take its own course. There is no focusing, there
is only allowing the mirror bright clarity to shine with it natural
radiance. In essence there is no one there, only the phenomenon arising
and ceasing telling their stories." - John Tan, 2006
[15:49] <^john^> bliss is complete clarity.
[15:50] <ZeN`out> complete clarity?
[15:50] <^john^> when u experience the luminosity without boundary, joy will flow from all directions.
[15:50] <^john^> yes
[15:50] <^john^> :)
[15:50] <ZeN`out> if bliss is complete clarity, then why do we experience bliss without clarity also?
[15:50] <^john^> that is because it is not bliss. :P
[15:51] <ZeN`out> then what is it?
[15:51] <ZeN`out> joy that is not bliss?
[15:52] <^john^> it is just a mental state that is created.
[15:53] <ZeN`out> icic...
[15:53] <ZeN`out> then is the bliss experienced through complete clarity, a mental state?
[15:53] <^john^> Pure awareness is nothing of that sort.
[15:53] <^john^> so how do we know?
[15:54] <^john^> :)
[15:54] <ZeN`out> bcos pure awareness is simply aware ?
[15:54] <^john^> and what is it like?
[15:55] <ZeN`out> dunnu
[15:55] <^john^> the greatest joy in absorption is?
[15:56] <ZeN`out> dunnu :P
[15:56] <^john^> forgetting the 'self'.
[15:56] <ZeN`out> oic...
[15:57] <^john^> when object and subject becomes one.
[15:57] <^john^> but then there is no clarity.
[15:57] <^john^> the luminosity isn't there. :)
[15:57] <ZeN`out> then what is the clarity?
[15:58] <^john^> it is the Total Presence, Reality.
[15:58] <^john^> u know how a mirror reflect?
[15:58] <ZeN`out> the light reflects
[15:59] <^john^> when u feel, sense, taste, see without a layer
[16:00] <^john^> a layer of thought, belief, words, name, label..etc
[16:00] <^john^> without an 'I'
[16:00] <^john^> don't even think of it...
[16:00] <^john^> some will tell u it is like that.
[16:00] <ZeN`out> icic
[16:01] <^john^> but what is it like?
[16:01] <^john^> or what is it at all?
[16:01] <^john^> This is the entire practice of meditation
[16:01] <^john^> the entire teaching of buddhism.
[23:23] <ZeN`n1th> Dzogchen teacher Tenzin Wangyal (1997, 29) points out:
[23:23] <ZeN`n1th> The gap between two thoughts is essence. But if in that gap there is a lack of presence, it becomes ignorance and we experience only a lack of awareness, almost an unconsciousness. If there is presence in the gap, then we experience the dharmakaya [the ultimate].
[23:24] <ZeN`n1th> so presence is the awareness?
[23:24] <ZeN`n1th> nice quote , anyway
[23:24] <ZeN`n1th> anyway u were saying about the "i"... so what do u mean?
[23:24] <^john^> without presence, it is absorption
[23:25] <^john^> very well said, where u get this quote. 🙂
Do note the luminosity revealed in gap between two thoughts is just the beginning, it is the I AM.
“Hi Mr. H,
In addition to what you wrote, I hope to convey another dimension of Presence to you. That is Encountering Presence in its first impression, unadulterated and full blown in stillness.
So after reading it, just feel it with your entire body-mind and forgot about it. Don't let it corrupt your mind.😝
Presence, Awareness, Beingness, Isness are all synonyms. There can be all sorts of definitions but all these are not the path to it. The path to it must be non-conceptual and direct. This is the only way.
When contemplating the koan "before birth who am I", the thinking mind attempts to seek into it's memory bank for similar experiences to get an answer. This is how the thinking mind works - compare, categorize and measure in order to understand.
However, when we encounter such a koan, the mind reaches its limit when it tries to penetrate its own depth with no answer. There will come a time when the mind exhausts itself and come to a complete standstill and from that stillness comes an earthshaking BAM!
I. Just I.
Before birth this I, a thousand years ago this I, a thousand later this I. I AM I.
It is without any arbitrary thoughts, any comparisons. It fully authenticates it's own clarity, it's own existence, ITSELF in clean, pure, direct non-conceptuality. No why, no because.
Just ITSELF in stillness nothing else.
Intuit the vipassana and the samantha. Intuit the total exertion and realization. The essence of message must be raw and uncontaminated by words.
Hope that helps!” - John Tan, 2019
Ken Wilber on I AMness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA8tDzK_kPI
-- excerpt from the abridged AtR guide, which you can read for self-enquiry pointers: https://app.box.com/s/zc0suu4dil01xbgirm2r0rmnzegxaitq