Showing posts with label Equipoise. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Equipoise. Show all posts

  • Peyman ZS
    Soh Wei Yu
    The way you’ve described it above, it is an experience.
    Sometimes you’re in it, sometimes you’re not.
    It comes, and it goes.
    When the insight is temporarily forgotten, what changes exactly, experientially ?

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  • Soh Wei Yu
    You might have misunderstood. Realisation of anatman is not an experience of no-mind. There is no entry or exit. This is unlike a peak experience of no-mind which can be merely temporary.
    Anatta is a Dharma Seal or Truth that is Always Already So, Anatta is Not a State
    Wrote in 2018:
    "If someone talks about an experience he/she had and then lost it, that's not (the true, deep) awakening... As many teachers put it, it's the great samadhi without entry and exit.
    John Tan: There is no entry and exit. Especially for no-self. Why is there no entry and exit?
    Me (Soh): Anatta (no-self) is always so, not a stage to attain. So it's about realisation and shift of perception.
    John Tan: Yes 👍
    As John also used to say to someone else, "Insight that 'anatta' is a seal and not a stage must arise to further progress into the 'effortless' mode. That is, anatta is the ground of all experiences and has always been so, no I. In seeing, always only seen, in hearing always only sound and in thinking, always only thoughts. No effort required and never was there an 'I'.""
    Differentiate Wisdom from Art
    Replying to someone in Rinzai Zen discussion group, John Tan wrote recently:
    “I think we have to differentiate wisdom from an art or a state of mind.
    In Master Sheng Yen’s death poem,
    Busy with nothing till old. (无事忙中老)
    In emptiness, there is weeping and laughing. (空里有哭笑)
    Originally there never was any 'I'. (本来没有我)
    Thus life and death can be cast aside. (生死皆可抛)
    This "Originally there never was any 'I'" is wisdom and the dharma seal of anatta. It is neither an art like an artist in zone where self is dissolved into the flow of action nor is it a state to be achieved in the case of the taoist "坐忘" (sit and forget) -- a state of no-mind.
    For example in cooking, there is no self that cooks, only the activity of cooking. The hands moves, the utensils act, the water boils, the potatoes peel and the universe sings together in the act of cooking. Whether one appears clumsy or smooth in act of cooking doesn't matter and when the dishes r out, they may still taste horrible; still there never was any "I" in any moment of the activity. There is no entry or exit point in the wisdom of anatta.”
    Labels: Anatta, Zen Master Sheng-yen 1 comments | |
    Soh wrote in 2007 based on what John Tan wrote:
    First I do not see Anatta as merely a freeing from personality sort of experience as you mentioned; I see it as that a self/agent, a doer, a thinker, a watcher, etc, cannot be found apart from the moment to moment flow of manifestation or as its commonly expressed as ‘the observer is the observed’; there is no self apart from arising and passing. A very important point here is that Anatta/No-Self is a Dharma Seal, it is the nature of Reality all the time -- and not merely as a state free from personality, ego or the ‘small self’ or a stage to attain. This means that it does not depend on the level of achievement of a practitioner to experience anatta but Reality has always been Anatta and what is important here is the intuitive insight into it as the nature, characteristic, of phenomenon (dharma seal).
    To put further emphasis on the importance of this point, I would like to borrow from the Bahiya Sutta ( that ‘in the seeing, there is just the seen, no seer’, ‘in the hearing, there is just the heard, no hearer’ as an illustration. When a person says that I have gone beyond the experiences from ‘I hear sound’ to a stage of ‘becoming sound’, he is mistaken. When it is taken to be a stage, it is illusory. For in actual case, there is and always is only sound when hearing; never was there a hearer to begin with. Nothing attained for it is always so. This is the seal of no-self. Therefore to a non dualist, the practice is in understanding the illusionary views of the sense of self and the split. Before the awakening of prajna wisdom, there will always be an unknowing attempt to maintain a purest state of 'presence'. This purest presence is the 'how' of a dualistic mind -- its dualistic attempt to provide a solution due to its lack of clarity of the spontaneous nature of the unconditioned. It is critical to note here that both the doubts/confusions/searches and the solutions that are created for these doubts/confusions/searches actually derive from the same cause -- our karmic propensities of ever seeing things dualistically.
    John Tan adds: "This is the seal of no-self and can be realized and experienced in all moments; not just a mere concept."
    Labels: Anatta |
    Anatta is a Dharma Seal or Truth that is Always Already So, Anatta is Not a State
    Anatta is a Dharma Seal or Truth that is Always Already So, Anatta is Not a State
    Anatta is a Dharma Seal or Truth that is Always Already So, Anatta is Not a State

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  • Peyman ZS
    So you’re saying in this life it is never forgotten, and always so, but in the next life it can be forgotten?

  • Soh Wei Yu
    Peyman ZS Yes. Anatta is realised as a dharma seal, always already so. That realisation will not be forgotten this life but may be forgotten next life. Just like when you grow up and realised santa claus is fake, you will never again be tricked into believing santa claus is real in this life. But in your next life you may be tricked into believing in santa claus again.

  • Peyman ZS
    Soh Wei Yu I’m just curious how this corresponds to the idea of rigpa being fragmented/interrupted for anyone that isn’t a Buddha, as we say in Acharya’s Dzogchen circle.
    It seems an Arya still has equipoise and post equipoise. Any thoughts ? I’m trying to understand what changes between those two states.

  • Soh Wei Yu
    Peyman ZS Joyfully delight in the uninterrupted vision of the objects of the six senses!
    Whatever you enjoy, bodhi will blaze more and more.
    When one has obtained the power of the supreme presence and become familiar with it,
    Meditating means leaving the six sense consciousness free and relaxed!
    It is thought that creates the duality of mind and object;
    It is wisdom that perceives them as non-dual.
    Meditation means understanding there is nothing to enter into or exit from.
    Not grasping what appears is the state of self-liberation!
    ~ Dzogchen book The Supreme Source

  • Soh Wei Yu
    Peyman ZS I recall John Tan said many years ago for him there is no entry and exit with regards to agent-agency-perceiver-perceived, the same for me. There is no subject-object duality or perceiver or agent all the time, no entry or exit to nondual experience, which is also the same here. He also commented something about characteristics of phenomena not being permanently eliminated all the time, although he has since made further breakthroughs that eliminates cognitive obscurations.
    Also related,
    “John Tan
    Just free ourselves from sense of self first, then it is probably 60% done. After then gradually to all notions into supreme purity.
    · Reply · 1d
    Arthur Deller
    John Tan I like that. Where did the 60% factor in!?!? No self is true. For whom would the other 40% apply. 😎
    · Reply · 1d
    John Tan
    Arthur Deller an arbitrary number...haha. "For whom" is within the 60%. If we start from other notions like cause and effect, will most likely end up as intellectual entertainment.😝
    · Reply · 1d
    Arthur Deller
    in the words of Maximus. “Are you not entertained”.
    I’ve had enough intellectual stimulation to last an eon or so.
    In thinking no thinker
    Thought with no thinking.
    · Reply · 1d
    John Tan
    If both thinker and thinking are deconstructed, why do you keep that thought?
    · Reply · 1d
    Arthur Deller
    John Tan I don’t. They just come and go. Like pixels. Fuzzy characters with no landing place.
    · Reply · 1d
    John Tan
    Arthur Deller then notion of "coming", "landing" and "going" must be subjected to the same scrutiny like thinker, thinking and thought.
    · Reply · 1d · Edited
    Arthur Deller
    John Tan I had a feeling that you picked up on that. Was gonna go into the non-arising via DO, but my brain 🧠 said it isn’t necessary.
    · Reply · 1d
    Arthur Deller
    John Tan you just lit a 🔥. In deep samadhi and insight meditation that’s very clear. On the go throughout the day while interacting, not as much.
    · Reply · 1d
    John Tan
    Arthur Deller distinguishing appearances and imputed notions added to mere appearances is a life long journey and indeed, daily engagement is the real meditation.
    · Reply · 1d · Edited
    Arthur Deller
    John Tan Hence the other 40%. Nice.©

  • Soh Wei Yu
    In the Mahamudra path, equipoise and post-equipoise begins to be mixed at the yoga of one taste, although it is not perfected until the yoga of non-meditation. See Mahamudra: The Moonlight:
    The stage of one flavor consists of the mind being settled
    evenly in its primal purity without affirming or rejecting
    the concepts of whether all things of saṃsāra and nirvāṇa
    are empty or not empty and of whether the mind has
    detached itself from the view of phenomena as absolute
    arising or dissolving. Je Phagdru explains:
    By meditating on the one flavor of all things,
    The meditator will cognize the one flavor of all these
    The diversity of appearances and nonappearances,
    Mind and emptiness, emptiness and nonemptiness,
    Are all of one flavor, nondifferentiable in their
    intrinsic emptiness.
    Understanding and lack of understanding are of one
    Equipoise and postequipoise are nondifferentiable;
    Meditation and absence of meditation are unified into
    one flavor;
    Discrimination and lack of discrimination are one
    In the expanse of reality.
    Je Shang says:
    When the one-flavor stage dawns,
    One will cognize the characteristics of mind;
    One will realize that the diverse things of saṃsāra and
    Arise from the mind’s nondiscriminatory dharmakāya.
    Appearance and absence of appearance,
    Stability and absence of stability,
    Emptiness and absence of emptiness,
    Clarity and absence of clarity
    Are all of one flavor in the luminous dharmakāya.
    The nonmeditation stage consists of [an enlightened
    mind] that has cleared all stains of inner sensation and
    experience and has achieved a harmonious blend of the
    understanding of the illuminating process with the abiding
    nature of the mind. Such a mind is completely detached
    from the duality of absorption and postabsorption,
    mindfulness and distraction. Je Phagdru writes:
    By perfecting this [nonmeditation stage]
    The meditator attains naked, unsupported awareness.
    This nondiscriminatory awareness is the meditation!
    By transcending the duality of meditation and
    External and internal realities,
    The meditating awareness dissolves itself
    Into its luminous clarity.
    Transcending the intellect,
    It is without the duality of equipoise and
    Such is the quintessence of mind.
    Je Shang concludes:
    When the nonmeditation stage of yoga dawns,
    The essence of awareness detaches itself
    From any inborn supports.
    The yogin will find nothing to meditate on,
    Because the unreality of the meditator has been
    It is proclaimed that the potential of enlightenment
    Is contained in every mind.
    Adorned with the three transcending forms 200
    And the five aspects of awareness,201
    One will discover this by oneself.
    Since there is agreement among most of the oral
    transmissions concerning the identification of the four
    stages of yoga, I have not elaborated on them here.

  • Soh Wei Yu
    6. The difference between absorption and
    Je Gomchung comments:
    At the one-pointed stage there arise
    Both appropriate equipoise and postequipoise.
    At the nondiscriminatory stage there arise
    Differentiable equipoise and postequipoise.
    At the stage of one flavor there emerges
    The union of equipoise and postequipoise.
    At the stage of nonmeditation
    There is an all-round absorption.
    Since no exact nondiscriminatory awareness emerges in
    the one-pointed stage, there is no distinctive meditative
    absorption. Similarly, there is no distinctive
    postabsorption, since illusionlike postabsorption does not
    arise without the realization of the nonarising [emptiness]
    of all appearances. However, it is possible for the
    meditator, on this level of practice, to absorb his mind into
    the meditation and also to regain it immediately after
    getting distracted by simply revitalizing the mindfulness.
    The distinctive meditative absorption is achieved in the
    nondiscriminatory stage, because the awareness that dawns
    consists of a dimension of nonduality. As a
    nondifferentiating awareness it is detached from the mind’s
    clinging to the dualities of subject-object, external and
    internal. The distinctive postabsorption is achieved when
    the meditator cognizes the [inevitable] simple appearance
    of duality as only ephemeral illusion. And thus meditative
    absorption and postabsorption are differentiated.
    In the absorptive equipoise at the stage of one flavor, all
    dualities such as appearance and emptiness are perceived
    as being nondual. Even during postabsorption, whenever
    the meditator through mindfulness of nonduality cognizes
    appearance and emptiness as nondual and illusionlike, his
    practice is merely described as a blend of absorption with
    In the stage of nonmeditation, even though sensory
    appearances continue to emerge, they arise and dissolve in
    nothing other than the absorptive equipoise. Hence there is
    considered to be nothing but total absorption.
    Je Shang sums it up thus:
    Whenever one is absorbed in primordial awareness,
    Whatever one may be doing – jumping, running,
    murmuring, or talking –
    One is still in equipoise.
    Whenever one is detached from primordial
    One slips into postabsorption,
    Even though one may be sitting in meditation.
    He continues:
    However high the spiritual attainment,
    As long as one has not mastered meditation,
    There will emerge the dualities
    Of absorption and postabsorption,
    Sustained and unsustained mindfulness,
    A distracted and undistracted mind.
    Once the meditational state dawns
    Without any need to strive for it,
    Then this is described as the stage of nonmeditation.
    Whenever an innermost awareness encompasses each of
    the first three yoga stages, the meditator is in an
    appropriate equipoise, even though he may be engaged in
    jumping, running, or talking. But whenever such an
    awareness is absent, the meditator’s mental stage is
    reduced to a postabsorptive perception, even though he
    may be sitting in meditation. As long as the meditator has
    the need to strive for meditational perfection, there will be
    such dualities as equipoise and postequipoise, sustained
    and unsustained mindfulness, a distracted and undistracted
    mind. It must be noted that the actual nonmeditation stage
    consists of the union [of luminous awareness and the
    supreme illusor y form] on the path of noncultivation.202

  • Soh Wei Yu
    7. The time of realization for each of the four yoga
    Je Gomchung comments on the time thus:
    It comes when one is deeply absorbed in the onepointed
    When one masters both equipoise and postequipoise
    in the nondiscriminatory stage,
    When one succeeds in blending equipoise and
    postequipoise in the stage of one flavor,
    And when one realizes the stage of nonmeditation
    The meditator achieves a definite experience in
    meditative equipoise at the one-pointed stage when he
    maintains the inner sensation and the conscious certainty
    through revitalized mindfulness. He reorients his
    meditation to the perception during the period of
    postabsorption through a vigorous mindfulness. The
    meditator masters both equipoise and postequipoise at the
    nondiscriminatory stage when he meditates first on the
    spacelike absorption with sustained mindfulness and then
    on the illusionlike postabsorption during the period of
    postabsorption. The meditator achieves the one even state
    of all things at the stage of one flavor when he meditates on
    the union of absorption and postabsorption by being
    perfectly aware of the nonduality of appearance and
    emptiness. The meditator achieves the indivisible union of
    equipoise and postequipoise at the stage of nonmeditation
    when he perfects this meditation to its ultimate limit.
    Je Gampopa comments on the realization:
    A spontaneous fulfillment is achieved
    When one masters the one-pointed stage;
    A nondual awareness is achieved
    When one masters the nondiscriminatory stage;
    The inconceivable nature of mind is realized
    When one masters the stage of one flavor;
    The ultimate perfection is realized
    When one masters the stage of nonmeditation.
    8. Some other characteristics of these four stages
    Je Gyare comments:
    At the one-pointed stage
    Inner sensations dawn and diminish;
    Karma is accumulated,
    For this is the path of the transient world.
    At the nondiscriminatory stage
    One focuses on the nondual state [the transcendental
    The way one perceives one’s fatherland [with
    And stabilizes the contemplation in absorption and
    At the stage of one flavor
    Appearance emerges as meditation,
    Which lasts
    For an uninterrupted period of time.
    The stage of nonmeditation
    Is the seat of dharmakāya.
    This means a pure concept
    For most meditators on this level.203
    Je Gyare explains further:
    By meditating on the one-pointed yoga for a long time
    The meditator will inevitably eliminate
    His attachment to sensory pleasures
    And will gain certain powers achieved by the ancient
    Such as the power of supercognition, transformation,
    and the like.
    By maintaining the awareness of the
    nondiscriminatory yoga
    The meditator will perceive the great spectacle
    Of uncertain reality and its false appearance.
    He will attain certain vital qualities of a Bodhisattva,
    Such as compassion without any self-concern,
    According to the intensity of his training
    And the level of his intelligence.
    By maintaining the state of one flavor for a long time
    He will perceive the great spectacle of the pure lands
    of the Buddhas.
    No matter what he does, whether sitting in a reclining
    Standing on his head, or walking,
    [His absorption] is immobile, like a king who is
    firmly seated;
    [He perceives] the interrelated unity
    Of the apparent and ultimate realities,
    Like the sight of a magnificent silk cloth in the
    He attains certain qualities of enlightenment
    And will then fulfill the hopes of innumerable sentient
    When the meditator reaches the highest level of
    He will achieve the transcendental qualities
    And will then carry out his spiritual functions
    To their ultimate limit.

  • Soh Wei Yu
    It is a much longer book than Clarifying the Natural State, another must read book by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal. But the longer book is also very good and worth reading, I read it a decade+ ago.

  • Soh Wei Yu
    On the other hand, if one merely have a peak experience of no-mind, it is not yet without entry and exit, and is before the realisation of anatman. This is what is spoken here:
    Session Start: Sunday, 29 May, 2011
    (7:17 PM) Thusness: anatta is often not correctly understood
    it is common that one progress from experience of non-dual to no-mind instead of direct realization into anatta
    (7:19 PM) Thusness: many focus on the experience
    and there is a lack of clarity to penetrate the differences
    so u must be clear of the various phases of insights first and not mistake one for the other
    at the same time, refine your experience
    these few days...have deeper sleep and exercise more
    balance your body energies
    Conversations with Thusness 2009-2013 on I AM, One Mind, No Mind and Anatta:
    (9:12 PM) Thusness: no mind is an experience, it is not an insight
    (9:14 PM) Thusness: ppl that have experienced no-mind knows there is such experience and aims towards achieving it again.
    (9:14 PM) Thusness: but insight is is a direct experiential realization.
    (9:14 PM) AEN: icic..
    (9:14 PM) Thusness: that all along it is so.
    (11:19 PM) Thusness: u may have no-mind as an experience and understood that there is such an experience as simple manifestation or just the radiant world
    (11:19 PM) Thusness: but still it remains as a stage
    (11:19 PM) Thusness: u have no idea that it is a wrong view
    (11:20 PM) Thusness: we do not 'see' that it is the wrong view that 'blinds'
    a mistaken view shaping our entire experience
    (11:22 PM) AEN: icic..
    (11:23 PM) AEN: dharma dan calls it the knot of perception rite
    (11:23 PM) Thusness: yes
    (11:23 PM) AEN: so no mind is a strage?
    (11:24 PM) Thusness: no-mind is the peak of non-dual, the natural state of non-dual
    (11:24 PM) AEN: oic
    (11:24 PM) Thusness: where the background is completely gone
    (11:25 PM) Thusness: very often a practitioner in an advance phase of non-dual and One Mind, will naturally knows the importance of no-mind.
    And that becomes the practice
    they know they have to be there
    (11:26 PM) Thusness: however, to come to this natural state of non-dual where the background is deemed irrelevant, it requires insight of anatta.
    (12:09 AM) Thusness: and say yes, u realized ur mistake. wrote too fast.
    Awareness is just a label...
    (12:11 AM) Thusness: some of the texts u quoted are also misleading
    (12:12 AM) Thusness: when one spoke to others in longchen forum, some is to lead one into non-dual from "I AM" coz they can't accept anatta insight but is able to penetrate non-dual.
    (12:13 AM) Thusness: when anatta insight arises, one realizes there is no background
    (12:14 AM) Thusness: when insight of emptiness arise, then all is just sharing the same taste, luminous yet empty
    (12:14 AM) AEN: icic..
    (12:15 AM) Thusness: that is, i do not see Awareness, just a luminous manifestation
    there is no sense of Self/self
    or Awareness
    (12:16 AM) Thusness: there is always only sound, forms, smell...sweetness....hardness...thoughts...
    effortlessly manifesting
    (12:16 AM) Thusness: non-dually experienced
    (12:18 AM) Thusness: in terms of actual experience, what that is written in the forum is not enough
    (12:18 AM) Thusness: the intensity of luminosity isn't there.
    (12:19 AM) Thusness: first u go through the "I AM" for a period first
    later u will understand what i mean
    (12:12 AM) Thusness: not by way of non-identification.
    (12:13 AM) Thusness: by realization -- the arising insight there the mirror does not exist
    (12:15 AM) Thusness: if at the back of one's mind, there is this belief of a self, then will experience of no-mind be intermittent or permanent?
    (12:16 AM) AEN: intermittent
    (12:17 AM) Thusness: so how is one without the realization have a permanent experience of no-mind? There is no clarity, no doubtlessness of no-self, is it possible that there is a permanent and effortless experience of all sensate experiences without self?
    Thusness: ...To be more exact, the so called 'background' consciousness is that pristine happening. There is no a 'background' and a 'pristine happening'. During the initial phase of non-dual, there is still habitual attempt to 'fix' this imaginary split that does not exist. It matures when we realized that anatta is a seal, not a stage; in hearing, always only sounds; in seeing always only colors, shapes and forms; in thinking, always only thoughts. Always and already so. -:)
    Differentiating I AM, One Mind, No Mind and Anatta
    Differentiating I AM, One Mind, No Mind and Anatta
    Differentiating I AM, One Mind, No Mind and Anatta

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  • Soh Wei Yu
    “William Lam: It's non conceptual.
    John Tan: It’s non conceptual. Yup. Okay. Presence is not conceptual experience, it has to be direct. And you just feel pure sense of existence. Means people ask you, before birth, who are you? You just authenticate the I, that is yourself, directly. So when you first authenticate that I, you are damn happy, of course. When young, that time, wah… I authenticate this I… so you thought that you’re enlightened, but then the journey continues. So this is the first time you taste something that is different. It is… It is before thoughts, there is no thoughts. Your mind is completely still. You feel still, you feel presence, and you know yourself. Before birth it is Me, after birth, it is also Me, 10,000 years it’s still this Me, 10,000 year before, it’s still this Me. So you authenticate that, your mind is just that and authenticate your own true being, so you don't doubt that. In later phase…
    Kenneth Bok: Presence is this I AM?
    John Tan: Presence is the same as I AM. Presence is the same as… of course, other people may disagree, but actually they're referring to the same thing. The same authentication, the same what... even in Zen is still the same.
    But in later phase, I conceive that as just the thought realm. Means, in the six, I always call the six entries and six exits, so there is the sound and there’s all these… During that time, you always say I’m not sound, I’m not the appearance, I AM the Self that is behind all these appearances, alright? So, sounds, sensations, all these come and go, your thoughts come and go, those are not me, correct? This is the ultimate Me. The Self is the ultimate Me. Correct?
    William Lam: So, is that nondual? The I AM stage. It’s non-conceptual, was it nondual?
    John Tan: It’s nonconceptual. Yes, it is nondual. Why is it nondual? At that moment, there is no duality at all, at that moment when you experience the Self, you cannot have duality, because you are authenticated directly as IT, as this pure sense of Being. So, it’s completely I, there’s nothing else, just I. There’s nothing else, just the Self. I think, many of you have experienced this, the I AM. So, you probably will go and visit all the Hinduism, sing song with them, meditate with them, sleep with them, correct? Those are the young days. I meditate with them, hours after hours, meditate, sit with them, eat with them, sing song with them, drum with them. Because this is what they preach, and you find these group of people, all talking about the same language.
    So this experience is not a normal experience, correct? I mean, within the probably 15 years of my life or 17 years of my life, my first... when I was 17, when you first experienced that, wah, what is that? So, it is something different, it is non conceptual, it is non dual, and all these. But it is very difficult to get back the experience. Very, very difficult, unless you're in when you're in meditation, because you reject the relative, the appearances. So, it is, although they may say no, no, it is always with me, because it's Self, correct? But you don't actually get back the authentication, just pure sense of existence, just me, because you reject the rest of that appearances, but you do not know during that time. Only after anatta, then you realize that this, when you when you hear sound without the background, that experience is exactly the same, the taste is exactly the same as the presence. The I AM Presence. So, only after anatta, when the background is gone, then you realize eh, this has the exact same taste as the I AM experience. When you are not hearing, you are just in the vivid appearances, the obvious appearances now, correct. That experience is also the I AM experience. When you are even now feeling your sensation without the sense of self directly. That experience is exactly the same as I AM taste. It is nondual. Then you realize, I call, actually, everything is Mind. Correct? Everything. So, so before that, there is an ultimate Self, a background, and you reject all those transient appearances. After that, that background is gone, you know? And then you are just all these appearances.
    William Lam: You are the appearance? You are the sound? You are the…
    John Tan: Yes. So, so, that is an experience. That is an experience. So after that, you realize something. What did you realise? You realise all along it is the what, that is obscuring you. So… in a person, for a person that is in I AM experience, the pure presence experience, they will always have a dream. They will say that I hope I can 24 by 7 always in that state, correct? So when I was young, 17. But then after 10 years you are still thinking. Then after 20 years, you say how come I need to always meditate? You always find time to meditate, maybe I don't study also meditate, you give me a cave last time I will just meditate inside.
    So, the the thing that you always dream that you can one day be pure consciousness, just as pure consciousness, live as pure consciousness, but you never get it. And even if you meditate, occasionally probably you can have that oceanic experience. Only when you after anatta, when that self behind is gone, you are not 24 by 7, maybe most of your day, waking state, not so much of 24 by 7, you dream that time still very karmic depending on what you engage, doing business, all these. (John mimics dreaming) How come ah, the business…
    So, so, in normal waking state, you are effortless. Probably that is the, during I AM phase, what you think you are going to achieve, you achieve after the insight of anatta. So you become clear, you are probably in the right path. But there are further insights you have to go through. When you try to penetrate the… one of them is, I feel that I become very physical. I am just narrating, going through my experience. Maybe that time… because you experience the relative, the appearances directly. So everything becomes very physical. So that is how you come to understand the meaning, how concepts actually affect you. Then what exactly is physical? How does the idea of physical come about, correct? That time I still do not know about emptiness, and all these kind of things, to me it is not so important.
    So, I start going into what exactly is physical, what exactly is being physical? Sensation. But why is sensation known as physical, and what is being physical? How did I get the idea of being physical? So, I began to enquire into this thing. That, eh, actually on top of that, there is still further things to deconstruct, that is the meaning… that, just like self, I’m attached to the meaning of self, and you create a construct, it becomes a reification. Same thing, physicality also. So, you deconstruct the concepts surrounding physicality. Correct? So, when you deconstruct that, then I began to realize that all along, we try to understand, even after the experience of let’s say, anatta and all these… when we analyze, and when we think and try to understand something, we are using existing scientific concepts, logic, common day to day logic and all these to understand something. And it is always excluding consciousness. Even if you experience, you can lead a spiritual path you know, but when you think and analyze something, somehow you always exclude consciousness from the equation of understanding something. Your concept is always very materialistic. We always exclude consciousness from the whole equation.” -
    ATR Meeting 28 October 2020
    ATR Meeting 28 October 2020
    ATR Meeting 28 October 2020

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  • Peyman ZS
    Soh Wei Yu I have a hard copy, it is very long I have barely dipped into it 😯

  • Peyman ZS
    Soh Wei Yu I didn’t know about ATR meetings!

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