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Today
Soh:
Hi, i think this will interest you on spiritual awakening : http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html
Mr. E:
Thank you, I appreciate the link.
I am definitely in acknowledgement and aware of these understandings, I like some of the processes they explain though in regards to Emptiness.
There’s a stage of “true emptiness” that’s incomprehensible to an extent, because it seems to be absent of even the duality of Emptiness and Somethingness, because that sort of emptiness that is the counterpart of somethingness is still experiential by consciousness.
Whereas that “true emptiness” is consciousness turning into itself to the point that it transcends the duality and there’s only _____, but even then it’s incomprehensible and unnameable, so what I’m saying doesn’t do it justice besides being a sign post of some sort
What are your thoughts?
Soh:
consciousness turning into itself nondually is what i call the I AM
it is a crucial and precious realization
excerpt from http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2019/01/no-awareness-does-not-mean-non.html
In 2009:
“(10:49 PM) Thusness: by the way you know about hokai description and "I AM" is the same experience?
(10:50 PM) AEN: the watcher right
(10:52 PM) Thusness: nope. i mean the shingon practice of the body, mind, speech into one.
(10:53 PM) AEN: oh thats i am experience?
(10:53 PM) Thusness: yes, except that the object of practice is not based on consciousness. what is meant by foreground? it is the disappearance of the background and whats left is it. similarly the "I AM" is the experience of no background and experiencing consciousness directly. that is why it is just simply "I-I" or "I AM"
(10:57 PM) AEN: i've heard of the way people describe consciousness as the background consciousness becoming the foreground... so there's only consciousness aware of itself and thats still like I AM experience
(10:57 PM) Thusness: that is why it is described that way, awareness aware of itself and as itself.
(10:57 PM) AEN: but you also said I AM people sink to a background?
(10:57 PM) Thusness: yes
(10:57 PM) AEN: sinking to background = background becoming foreground?
(10:58 PM) Thusness: that is why i said it is misunderstood. and we treat that as ultimate.
(10:58 PM) AEN: icic but what hokai described is also nondual experience rite
(10:58 PM) Thusness: I have told you many times that the experience is right but the understanding is wrong. that is why it is an insight and opening of the wisdom eyes. there is nothing wrong with the experience of I AM". did i say that there is anything wrong with it?
(10:59 PM) AEN: nope
(10:59 PM) Thusness: even in stage 4 what did I say?
(11:00 PM) AEN: its the same experience except in sound, sight, etc
(11:00 PM) Thusness: sound as the exact same experience as "I AM"... as presence.
(11:00 PM) AEN: icic
(11:00 PM) Thusness: yes”
“"I AM" is a luminous thought in samadhi as I-I. Anatta is a realization of that in extending the insight to the 6 entries and exits.” – John Tan, 2018
after that key to its full blown effortless unfolding and maturity is to bring it to the foreground in all manifestations and contemplate to realise anatta
for me the crucial thing after I AM is by focusing on the two stanzas of anatta and the four aspects of I AM as well as the two nondual contemplations
these brought me and many others to the next breakthrough
about 40+ people in the ATR community been through these phases and breakthroughts to anatta and emptiness
https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html
https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2018/12/four-aspects-of-i-am.html
https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2018/12/two-types-of-nondual-contemplation.html
wrote to someone earlier:
"
The realisation of anatta is crucial to bring that taste of non-dual Presence into all manifestations and situations and conditions without any trace of contrivity, effort, referentiality, center, or boundaries... it is the dream come true of anyone that had realised the Self/I AM/God, it is the key that brings it into full blown maturity every moment in life without effort.
It is what brings the pellucidity and beyond measure brilliance bright of Pure Presence into everything, it is not an inert or dull state of non-dual experience.
It is what allows this experience:
"What is presence now? Everything... Taste saliva, smell, think, what is that? Snap of a finger, sing. All ordinary activity, zero effort therefore nothing attained. Yet is full accomplishment. In esoteric terms, eat God, taste God, see God, hear God...lol. That is the first thing I told Mr. J few years back when he first messaged me 😂 If a mirror is there, this is not possible. If clarity isn't empty, this isn't possible. Not even slightest effort is needed. Do you feel it? Grabbing of my legs as if I am grabbing presence! Do you have this experience already? When there is no mirror, then entire existence is just lights-sounds-sensations as single presence. Presence is grabbing presence. The movement to grab legs is Presence.. the sensation of grabbing legs is Presence.. For me even typing or blinking my eyes. For fear that it is misunderstood, don't talk about it. Right understanding is no presence, for every single sense of knowingness is different. Otherwise Mr. J will say nonsense... lol. When there is a mirror, this is not possible. Think I wrote to longchen (Sim Pern Chong) about 10 years ago.” - John Tan
“It is such a blessing after 15 years of "I Am" to come to this point . Beware that the habitual tendencies will try its very best to take back what it has lost. Get use to doing nothing. Eat God, taste God, see God and touch God.
Congrats.” – John Tan to Sim Pern Chong after his initial breakthrough from I AM to no-self in 2006, http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2013/12/part-2-of-early-forum-posts-by-thusness_3.html
“An interesting comment Mr. J. After realization… Just eat God, breathe God, smell God and see God… Lastly be fully unestablished and liberate God.” - John Tan, 2012
"
"The purpose of anatta is to have full blown experience of the heart -- boundlessly, completely, non-dually and non-locally. Re-read what I wrote to Jax.
In every situations, in all conditions, in all events. It is to eliminate unnecessary contrivity so that our essence can be expressed without obscuration.
Jax wants to point to the heart but is unable to express in a non-dual way... for in duality, the essence cannot be realized. All dualistic interpretation are mind made. You know the smile of Mahākāśyapa? Can you touch the heart of that smile even 2500 yrs later?
One must lose all mind and body by feeling with entire mind and body this essence which is 心 (Mind). Yet 心 (Mind) too is 不可得 (ungraspable/unobtainable).. The purpose is not to deny 心 (Mind) but rather not to place any limitations or duality so that 心 (Mind) can fully manifest.
Therefore without understanding 缘 (conditions)，is to limit 心 (Mind). without understanding 缘 (conditions)，is to place limitation in its manifestations. You must fully experience 心 (Mind) by realizing 无心 (No-Mind) and fully embrace the wisdom of 不可得 (ungraspable/unobtainable)." - John Tan/Thusness, 2014
- http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2019/02/the-transient-universe-has-heart.html
"
John TanThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:24am UTC+08
Transmission of the "dharma eye"
Soh Wei YuThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:25am UTC+08
As in direct realization of luminosity?
Soh Wei YuThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:25am UTC+08
Or of anatta etc
Soh Wei YuThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:26am UTC+08
What do u mean by seal
John TanThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:26am UTC+08
It is seeing it alive....that is passed from lineage.
Soh Wei YuThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:26am UTC+08
and how is it different from awareness aware of itself
Soh Wei YuThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:26am UTC+08
Oic
John TanThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:27am UTC+08
Awareness aware of itself soon becomes dead...lol
John TanThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:29am UTC+08
The measure of one's depth is in the ineffability and marvelous manifestation in activity. Anatta and emptiness cannot b dead.
Soh Wei YuThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:30am UTC+08
I see..
John TanFriday, December 13, 2013 at 9:13am UTC+08
Everytime I go tour, my Awareness just heighten multifold...lol
Soh Wei YuFriday, December 13, 2013 at 9:14am UTC+08
Cool lol ur anatta breakthrough also in korea
John TanFriday, December 13, 2013 at 9:14am UTC+08
Going back tmr
John TanFriday, December 13, 2013 at 9:14am UTC+08
Yeah and Australia
.....
i love this quote by JT
"Awareness aware of itself soon becomes dead...lol
The measure of one's depth is in the ineffability and marvelous manifestation in activity. Anatta and emptiness cannot b dead."
(JT = Thusness, my mentor. I went through same stages as him. I'm Soh btw, co-author of the blog :) )
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Meditation and Self-Enquiry
I wrote this to my mother today in Chinese about the purpose of practicing and to encourage her to meditate. English translation below.
参禅是要参究本来面目是什么，自性是什么，不是要达到一种境界
是要发现，体悟，什么是自性、觉性。要达到完全没有疑惑才是”悟”
要一切念头断后还要回光返照，我是谁？在觉知的是什么？如果有念头回答是这个那个就错，因为答案不在语言文字，所以把念头舍掉再继续参、回光返照。这是明心最直接的法。
要每天打坐，元音老人叫弟子每天打坐两小时。
如果不能把心静下来到无念，很难开悟。你要想想你最容易把心静下的方法是什么？是打坐吗？还是念佛持咒？什么方法如果能安心都可以，可是要每天修，不能断断续续。
可是无念还不是开悟，达到无念时还要回光返照，找出了了分明的是谁，是什么，才能悟到自性，不然你的打坐只是一种静态，还没悟到自性。
悟到自性后只是明心，还不算是悟性（人法二空之理、登地菩萨），还要继续。所以”明心见性”其实是两个：先明心（真心），后见性。
所以要努力修到明心见性。
六祖慧能说过：不识本心学法无益。
English translation:
Contemplating Zen [Koan] is about inquiring what exactly is our original face, what is our Self-Nature, it is not about achieving a meditative state.
It is rather to discover, to realize, what exactly is our Self-Nature/Awareness. One must reach a state of utter doubtlessness/certainty to be considered '[Self-]Realization'.
After the utter cessation of all thoughts, one must turn one's light around to find out, What am I? What is it that is Aware? If there is a thought which answers 'it is this or that' then that's wrong, because the real answer lies not in words and letters. Therefore cast aside those thoughts and continue inquiring, turning the light around. This is the most direct method to apprehend one's Mind.
You should meditate everyday. Master Yuan Yin asks his student to meditate two hours a day.
If you are unable to quiet your mind to a state of no-thought, it will be difficult to realise. You should think carefully what is the best method for you to still your mind? Is it meditation? Or is it chanting the Buddha's name and reciting mantras? Whatever methods which calms the mind will do, but you have to practice everyday, not only practice intermittently or occasionally.
However, reaching a state of no-thought is not awakening. Upon reaching a state of no-thought, continue turning the light around to find out Who is that which is the Clear Knowingness? What is it? Then you will realise your Self-Nature. Otherwise your meditation is merely a state of stillness, not yet realising Self-Nature.
Realizing Self-Nature is only Apprehending one's Mind, it is not yet realizing Nature [the nature of mind and phenomena] (the principle of the twofold emptiness of persons and phenomena as realized by a first bhumi Bodhisattva), therefore one must continue. Hence, "Apprehending Mind and Realising Nature" consists of two parts: first apprehend one's Mind (True Mind), later realize [Empty] Nature.
Therefore practice hard to Apprehend Mind and Realize Nature.
The Sixth Ch'an Patriarch said: It is useless to learn the dharma without recognising original Mind.
7 Comments
Soh Wei Yu
The above instructions is suitable for someone seeking to have the initial breakthrough, what I call the I AM realization.
On the other hand, also today, someone else told me after realizing the I AM he was still struggling.
He said,
"Yes,
my perception is the "true self" is an unchanging ground of being in
separable from all, both nothing and everything, all forms yet formless,
however even this is saying too much. It can be pointed to but not put
into words and concepts
...
at
this point for me, there still seems to be a back and forth between an
imagined self and awareness. a thought will arise, awareness arises
destroying the though, i rest in awareness again - repeat.
i
am unable to rest in "knowing i am not the thought" permanently. the
mind forgets...until it remembers and when it does all content falls
away
so there is this back and forth between identifying with the awareness and identifying with the mind going on at the moment
ive read the links you provided they are highly detailed thank you
that
may be beyond me at the moment i have a solid theoretical understanding
and have been looking at my mind for years now, however the habit of
mind identification is strong
...
i have [realised Self]
but this is forgotten in times of emotional distress - it seems like the default so to reidentify with the mind
there is no doubt of the absolute here
at all - nothing"
