Showing posts with label Anatta. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Anatta. Show all posts
Soh

Conversation — 9 May 2009

AEN: Hi, are you there?

Thusness: Yes. Going to watch Star Trek later. :)

AEN: Sunyata Mu said:

"Basically from my birth to about somewhere in my thirties there was a belief that I was the thoughts. This belief that I was the thoughts led to a situation which was basically 'out of control'. I believed I was the thoughts, so basically I was trapped on a roller coaster ride with them. There was no place to sit back from them... I was a slave to them and a victim of them.

So, when the realization occurred that I was the witnessing of the thoughts (...what I would call 'awakening' ) then there was some space from them.

I'd discovered a deeper part of me which I could abide in and just watch the thoughts pass by. There was then a freedom from the thoughts. They could be grabbed or let go. The slavery to them had been broken. To get to this point it was very useful to see the thoughts as 'not me' and to see them for what they actually are... dead symbols.

This awakening then opened up the next step of the 'journey'. It went from 'the witness' (which is seen as a separate self which is witnessing).... to 'the witnessing', which is non-personal. 'The witnessing' is like the 'one witnessing' in a dream. All of the dream characters have the same witnessing flowing through them. They seem separate, but it's the same witnessing (awareness) flowing through them all.

So, now that the deepest part of 'me' had been realized I could now begin to reclaim the world of thought.

An analogy would be.... I am the sun. But I didn't realize that I was the sun. I thought that I was the suns' rays and was oblivious to the fact that there was a sun which was emanating those rays. I then realized that my deepest self (the bit that the rays depend on to exist) was the sun. So I 'awakened' to the fact that the sun was there, and that it was my deepest self. And now that I realize that I am the sun I can safely take back ownership of the rays. Sure I am the rays.... but now there is also the realization that I am the sun.

So, now, there is a realization that at one end there is pure non-personal witnessing. At the other end there is the world of thoughts. And now there is a freedom to move between the two. Before, there was just a stuckness in the thoughts.... that was the only possibility. Now there is a free movement between the two. ( And yes, they are not actually 2, they are like the sun and its rays.... which are actually one.)"

Thusness: Yes. But the deeper realization is that witness and the thought is flat. :) Both are dust; don't differentiate. This is the profound truth of emptiness.

AEN: What do you mean witness and thought is flat? By the way, what he said is nonduality, right?

Thusness: There is no hierarchy.

AEN: I see.

Thusness: Yes. When we first experienced eternal witness, there is this awakening to the real you. But we are still unable to separate from the subtle idea of 'you' from pristineness.

AEN: I see...

Thusness: Then non-dual comes. That's the observer and the observed. This is the beginning of non-duality. One must penetrate very deeply into non-dual.

AEN: I see... so what he described here is still witness or like non-dual?

Thusness: Then comes the realization that absolute and relative are really inseparable. Then till one day we are so clear about the layer of tendencies that affect our thinking mechanism. When we re-examine the experiences, insights of non-duality without the subtle influences due to the neutralization with the arising of prajna wisdom (dependent origination), we begin to understand how the dualistic and inherent view distort our understanding with much deeper clarity. Experience then move from non-dual to anatta and emptiness. Eventually the background, the transience are simply same level. The absolute that is so dear to us becomes flat. Emptiness flattens all.

Thusness: That is why I said it is the last mark, last trace that must be further purified by emptiness.

Thusness: Email me this conversation... My keyboard keys are spoiled... jump here and there. Then close this window... haha. When we talk about the natural state, if we have not reached this clarity of insight, we will not be able to be truly natural. Because there is a center. Not all are centers... That center is the grasping, the more special. How natural can that be?

Thusness: This last mark must be clearly seen.

AEN: By the way, I remember you said regarding the sun analogy: "Yes Sinweiy, The Buddha out of infinite compassion spoke the lucid luminosity, the unconditioned Obviousness, the pure. But the self-luminous awareness from beginningless time has never been separated and cannot be separated from its conditions. They are not two -- This is, That is. Along with the conditions, Luminosity shines without a center and arises without a place. No where to be found. This is the Tatagatha Nature. :)"

Thusness: Conditions and luminosity = appearances. This is DO [dependent origination]. This is not relative and absolute. Don't mistake relative as conditions.

Thusness: Relative is the transience. The appearance. This is the subject-object view. Luminosity and conditions are DO [dependent origination]. In DO [dependent origination], there is only appearances. All are flat. Equally pure. That is why replace the inherent and dualistic view with DO [dependent origination]. That is the right view. To orientate and articulate with the right view. Then when experience comes, it will not be distorted. Insight will arise.

Thusness: When I talk about insight, I am talking about anatta and DO [dependent origination]. Get it?

Thusness: You will see Advaita and Vedanta sees the absolute. The non-dual experience is there but there is the hierarchy that the Absolute is high above. In Buddhism, even the Absolute is closely examined. Nothing substantial, as empty. :)

Thusness: Seeing its nature, one realized the truth of luminous yet empty. All is just like an illusion but not an illusion. Like a dream but not a dream. Merely magical display. This is stage six. Then is the realization that all these realizations are already so before beginning. :)

AEN: OK. By the way, John Astin just posted this in his blog, I posted in the forum also: "To remain or abide as awareness does not mean we get into some state called “awareness” and then find a way to remain in that state. To remain as awareness is to simply recognize that all states and experiences are the continuous flow of awareness."

Thusness: Yes... very good. This is attempting to use dualistic mode of expression to express. And there is subtle influences even when one is clear and is able to trace the differences. But due to the effects of the tendencies, we cannot have that clarity.

AEN: I see. You mean that expression is still dualistic?

Thusness: Not exactly. What I meant is it is very difficult to have the clarity. From John Astin's words, he spotted the difference but it is very difficult to have thorough clarity of DO [dependent origination] when using dualistic framework. Get it?

Thusness: I got to go.

AEN: OK... see you.

Thusness: goldisheavy already have insight into the 2fold emptiness.

AEN: He just posted something? Hmm. What do you mean by insight?

Thusness: I just read his posts. Quite good.

AEN: You mean he realized emptiness?

Thusness: I go now.

AEN: OK... see you. By the way, you mean he realized emptiness or he understand theoretically?


Conversation — 10 May 2009

AEN: So how should I reply Sunyata Mu? :P

Thusness: Who is he?

AEN: The person who wrote the witness one. This one: http://www.inthenow.tv/actual%20pages/awakeinthenow.html

Thusness: Everyone has their own experience. I need to read through first. Some have direct insight of emptiness. Some have direct insight of anatta. Some have Advaita sort of non-dual.

AEN: Oh yeah, the gold realized both?

Thusness: And there are varying degree.

AEN: goldisheavy*

Thusness: Nope... I only say he has insight into emptiness.

Thusness: But that does not mean he will have realization of awareness, or the intensity of no dog may differ. Like you experience witness however that is not the experience I want you to have. You do not have that certainty, that eureka sort of realization. So there are differing degree.

[Note by Soh: That realization of the Certainty of Being came for me through self-enquiry next year, in February 2010 - see My e-book/e-journal)

Thusness: Similarly non-dual there are varying degree. Some non-dual have no thoughts. Some have thoughts. Though from the perspective of emptiness, all is flat, the experience differs in terms of intensity and vividness. Realization however is different. It is a realization. Means you see. You suddenly understand. And knows very clearly.

AEN: Anyway, I emailed you the Sunyata Mu's email, about the sun's ray and sun.

Thusness: What did you write to him?

AEN: I haven't replied him.

Thusness: I meant what did you write to him to have him replied you that way?

AEN: I just pasted some quotes about witness and witnessed are non-dual.

Thusness: Show me your email to him first. Then re-send me his reply.

AEN: OK, hold on. Wah. But very long. :P I just forward you.

Thusness: OK. He has potential to go beyond stage 4.

AEN: By the way, he posts in now-for-you also but only a few posts. I saw his site from there. I see. I emailed you his reply. I mean, I emailed you my email to him. I also emailed you his reply, yesterday, with the title 'Fw: From Sunyata Mu ...'

AEN: So what he said is like stage 4?

Thusness: That is a guide for you, don't always think of stage. Some start with emptiness but have no experience of luminosity. Then luminosity will become a later phase. Does that mean that the most pristine experience of "I AM" now is the last stage? Don't get yourself confused.

Thusness: I told you to look into at it as phases of insight but your entire mind is looking at it as a stage.

Thusness: Some have no experience of luminosity at all and is able to understand the profound wisdom of emptiness. Yet have no direct experience of luminosity, or the degree of experience is simply just not there.

Thusness: Some have experienced luminosity but does not understand how he get himself 'lost'. No insight to the tendencies at all therefore cannot understand DO adequately. Does that mean that one that experience emptiness is higher than one that experience luminosity? I told you so many times it does not mean that. And I wrote in the article too. How come you fail to see despite me telling you umpteen times?

Thusness: Didn't receive yet.

AEN: Huh, don't have? Yesterday I sent you also never receive?

Thusness: What you should understand is what is lacking in the form of realization. There is no hierarchy to it. Just insights.

Thusness: Then you will be able to see all stages as flat. Get it?

Thusness: And simply talk about the progress of insights. But all insights are equally precious. And flat. No higher.

Thusness: Like dharma dan experience non-dual but not no-dog. Then no-dog is precious. Even after non-dual, that will bring out the luminosity aspect more.

Thusness: When in non-dual, one can still be full of thoughts. Therefore experience the thoroughness of being no-thoughts, fully luminous and present. Then it is not about non-dual, not about the no object-subject split, it is about the degree of luminosity for these non-dualist. But some monks that is trapped in luminosity and rest in samadhi, then it is about non-dual. For non-dualists, depending on the level of understanding, you can move forward or backward, there is no-hierarchy.

Thusness: Send me his reply too... I didn't have it in this computer.

AEN: Yeah, I sent you both but you didn't receive? I think I save into document. Initiated a file transfer. You there?

Thusness: thevoice talking to me.

AEN: Oh, I see...

Thusness: I will tell you how to reply him... maybe write something about natural state... later this evening when I solve my email problem for my e75. Think have to go change the phone.

AEN: I see... OK.

Thusness: This astraldynamics is generating a lot of traffic... haha.

AEN: Yeah, haha. Didn't know his website so popular.

Thusness: His books sold more than 50,000 copies... so his readers should be a lot.

Thusness: Sunyata Mu is from Australia?

AEN: Yeah. I think Sydney. Why?

Thusness: I thought this was him: Blaxland, New South Wales, Australia, 0 returning visits. Haha.

AEN: I think his house in Blaxland then his workplace in Sydney or something. Yeah. Because at first he came in from Sydney...

Thusness: Now many visitors return.

AEN: I see, yeah.

AEN: Sunyata Mu is saying there is a universal consciousness in everybody, I think. And that each individual and experience is 'emanating' from the one source. Then his idea of 'no separate self' is the universal brahman.


Conversation — 12 May 2009

AEN: Hi.

Thusness: Hi. :)

AEN: You saw my messages just now? I asked "how should I reply Sunyata Mu :P"

Thusness: My next post is related to Sunyata Mu however I do not have the time to write yet. :) It is about the difference between phase 4 and 5.

AEN: I see. You saw his emails, right?

Thusness: Yeah, about the sun and the ray.

AEN: Yeah. I think he's talking about universal consciousness. He thought no separate self means everyone has a universal brahman or something, if I'm not wrong.

(Note by Soh: 
For readers who tend to extrapolate a “Universal Mind,” the following pieces explicitly refute that view and explain why it is a subtle reification that deviates from Buddhadharma:

“The Tendency to Extrapolate a Universal Consciousness” (Awakening to Reality): https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/12/the-tendency-to-extrapolate-universal.html 

“No Universal Mind” (Awakening to Reality; with a helpful quote from Khenpo Tsewang Dongyal): https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2021/08/no-universal-mind.html .

“No Universal Mind, Part 3” (Awakening to Reality): https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2022/03/no-universal-mind-part-3.html)

Thusness: Partly yes.

AEN: I see.

Soh

Also see: Appropriated Aggregates are Suffering


A question was recently posed that gets to the very core of Buddhist practice:
"I'm having a hard time understanding the first noble truth. What is Dukkha? As I understood five clinging aggregates themselves are dukkha. Why is that?"

This is a great question, and it gets to the very heart of the Buddha's teaching. I must say, it is a very common point of confusion, often because of the mistranslation or misunderstanding that the 1st noble truth means "life is suffering," which isn't at all what the Buddha taught.

The key is in understanding what 
Upādāna means in the pañcupādānakkhandhāUpādāna carries a double sense in the canon: (1) the act of grasping/appropriating and (2) the fuel/sustenance that keeps a process going (via the Buddha’s fire metaphor). In most contexts—especially the formula “pañcupādānakkhandhā dukkhā” and in Dependent Origination—the standard and clearest translation is “clinging/appropriation.”

Hence what the Buddha really meant is: "appropriated aggregates are suffering", meaning that suffering arises specifically from clinging (appropriation, or upādāna), which is rooted in making things "I" or "mine."

Here is a more thorough breakdown, drawing on the suttas.

1. What the Buddha Actually Defined as Dukkha

In his very first sermon, the Buddha laid out the Four Noble Truths. When defining the First Noble Truth (Dukkha), he listed examples like birth, aging, sickness, and death, and then gave a definitive summary.

“Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of suffering: birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering.

— SN 56.11 (Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta)

Full text: https://suttacentral.net/sn56.11/en/bodhi

The key phrase is "five aggregates subject to clinging" (pañcupādānakkhandhā). He did not just say "the five aggregates are suffering." This distinction is the most important point.

2. "Aggregates" vs. "Clinging-Aggregates"

The five aggregates (khandha) are simply the components of our experience:

  • Form (bodies, sights, sounds, etc.)

  • Feeling (pleasant, unpleasant, neutral)

  • Perception (recognition, labeling)

  • Mental Formations (intentions, choices, habits)

  • Consciousness (the knowing of the other aggregates)

These are just the processes of life. The problem—the dukkha—is the upādāna (clinging, appropriation, "taking up").

The suttas make this distinction clear. In the Cūḷavedalla Sutta (MN 44), the nun Dhammadinnā is asked what the Buddha calls "identity" (sakkāya).

“'Identity, identity,' is said, Noble Lady. What, Noble Lady, is said to be identity by the Gracious One?”

These five constituents (of mind and body) that provide fuel for attachment, friend Visākha, are said to be identity by the Gracious One, as follows: the form constituent that provides fuel for attachment, the feelings constituent... the perceptions constituent... the (mental) processes constituent... the consciousness constituent that provides fuel for attachment....”

— MN 44 (Cūḷavedalla Sutta)

Full text (Anandajoti): https://suttacentral.net/mn44/en/anandajoti

Full text (Bodhi): https://suttacentral.net/mn44/en/bodhi

As this translation notes, upādāna doesn't just mean "clinging"; it also means "fuel" or "nutriment." When we identify, cling to, or appropriate the aggregates, we are fueling a process of "becoming" (bhava)—the ongoing creation of a "self" that experiences birth, aging, and death, which is the "whole mass of suffering."

To be clear, the Buddha distinguished aggregates vs aggregates subject to clinging in this way:

"Linked Discourses 22.48

5. Be Your Own Island

Aggregates

At Sāvatthī.

“Mendicants, I will teach you the five aggregates and the five grasping aggregates. “Grasping” is so central to the concept of the five aggregates that we rarely find the “bare” aggregates mentioned as here. To head off a misunderstanding, the purpose of this discourse is not to establish that an arahant has aggregates free of grasping, since this is not brought up at all. Rather, it is to clarify the nature of grasping in relation to the aggregates. Listen …

And what are the five aggregates? The five aggregates are the five “masses” or “conglomerates” or “categories” consisting of all instance of that type of phenomena. So far as I can tell, it was not a Vedic technical term. However, the Jains know khandha as a clump of more than one atom, namely a “molecule” (Tattvārthasūtra 5.5). It seems that, along with other terms of similar meaning (sakkāya and puggala; see notes to SN 22.22 and SN 22.105), it was vocabulary shared with the Jains, though used in different senses. I have not discovered anywhere where the five are grouped together as such, although in the Suttas people who are not Buddhists seem familiar with them.

Any kind of form at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; solid or subtle; inferior or superior; far or near: this is called the aggregate of form.

Any kind of feeling at all …

Any kind of perception at all …

Any kind of choices at all …

Any kind of consciousness at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; solid or subtle; inferior or superior; far or near: this is called the aggregate of consciousness.

These are called the five aggregates.

And what are the five grasping aggregates? The five aggregates are not presented as a catch-all category that encompasses all of reality, but rather five types of phenomena that provoke attachment, forming the basis of what we take to be “self”. Desire is what drives the formation of attachment, but it requires all the aggregates to function. Thus the “grasping” aggregates are numbered “five” after the hand that grasps.

Any kind of form at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; coarse or fine; inferior or superior; far or near, which is accompanied by defilements and fuels grasping: this is called the grasping aggregate of form. The text illustrates the noun “grasping” (upādāna) with the future passive participle “graspable” (upādāniya). I render it “fuels grasping” to capture the secondary sense of “fuel” for the fire (SN 12.52:1.2). This is the aspect of the aggregates that stimulate or provoke desire and attachment. The “grasping” itself is the desire and lust for the aggregates (SN 22.121). But desire only functions as part of a system involving all the aggregates, hence the aggregates are neither identical to nor separate from the grasping (SN 22.82:4.3). Elsewhere we find the past participle “grasped” (upādinna) as that which has been “appropriated” or “taken up” at birth (MN 28:6.4).

Any kind of feeling at all …

Any kind of perception at all …

Any kind of choices at all …

Any kind of consciousness at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; coarse or fine; inferior or superior; far or near, which is accompanied by defilements and is fuels grasping: this is called the grasping aggregate of consciousness.

These are called the five grasping aggregates.”"


Here’s how Bhikkhu Sujato renders the four āsavas and what each means, in plain English:

  • kāmāsava → “defilement of sensual pleasures” (the pull toward sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touches and their fantasies). It fuels chasing gratification and underpins craving. (SuttaCentral)

  • bhavāsava → “defilement of existence/becoming” (the urge to be or to go on being in particular states or realms; ambition to continue or upgrade one’s mode of existence). (SuttaCentral)

  • diṭṭhāsava → “defilement of views” (clinging to speculative or identity-forming views, including “I am” notions, eternalism, annihilationism, etc.).

  • avijjāsava → “defilement of ignorance” (not seeing the four noble truths, dependent origination, impermanence, not-self—hence taking what’s conditioned as worth clinging to). (SuttaCentral)

Sujato consistently translates āsava itself as “defilements” (he avoids older renderings like “cankers” or “effluents/taints”). You can see his usage in his translation of MN 2 (Sabbāsava Sutta, “All the Defilements”) and in listings like DN 33 (Saṅgīti Sutta) where the four are enumerated. (SuttaCentral)

For a succinct modern explanation of how these four operate (kāma, bhava, diṭṭhi, avijjā), see this short piece from Barre Center for Buddhist Studies (it matches the same four and their sense). (Barre Center for Buddhist Studies)

One-line summaries

  • kāmāsava: the mind’s leak toward sensuality—keeps attention flowing out to pleasant sense data. (SuttaCentral)

  • bhavāsava: the momentum of becoming/existence—keeps projects of “being someone/somewhere” going.

  • diṭṭhāsava: the stickiness of views—keeps “I am this/that” stories glued in place.

  • avijjāsava: the darkness of ignorance—keeps the whole loop running by not seeing things as they are. (SuttaCentral)

If you want the exact passages in Sujato’s wording, the live translations are here (rendered titles and section headings will show “defilements”):
MN 2 (Sabbāsava): https://suttacentral.net/mn2/en/sujato
DN 33 (Saṅgīti): https://suttacentral.net/dn33/en/sujato (SuttaCentral)

(Background note: other translators sometimes choose “taints,” “cankers,” or “effluents/outflows.” Sujato’s “defilements” is a clean, contemporary choice; regardless of the English, the Pāli category and its four members are the same.) (themindingcentre.org)


3. Why Are the Clinging-Aggregates Dukkha?

Because the aggregates themselves are impermanent (anicca) and not-self (anattā).

When you try to grasp, own, or identify with something that is fundamentally unstable, uncontrollable, empty and ungraspable, the result is friction, stress, and suffering. You are clinging to a waterfall and expecting it to hold you up.

The Buddha explained this in his second sermon, the Anattalakkhaṇa Sutta:

“Bhikkhus, form is not-self... For if, bhikkhus, form were self, this form would not lead to affliction, and it would be possible to have it of form: ‘Let my form be thus; let my form not be thus.’ But because form is not-self, form leads to affliction, and it is not possible to have it of form: ‘Let my form be thus; let my form not be thus.’

...[The same is said for feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness]...

“What do you think, bhikkhus, is form permanent or impermanent?”

“Impermanent, venerable sir.”

“And what is impermanent—is it suffering or happiness?”

“Suffering, venerable sir.”

“And what is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change—is it fitting to regard that as: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’?”

“No, venerable sir.”

— SN 22.59 (Anattalakkhaṇa Sutta)

Full text: https://suttacentral.net/sn22.59/en/bodhi

So, the aggregates themselves aren't inherently suffering in an absolute sense. It is the clinging to them as "me" or "mine"—in defiance of their impermanent, not-self nature—that is suffering.

4. The Fetter is the Clinging, Not the Senses or Objects

This is a crucial point. The suttas are surgical in their analysis. The problem isn't your eye, or the things you see. The problem is the desire and passion that arises between them.

"The eye is not the fetter of forms, nor are forms the fetter of the eye. Whatever desire & passion arises in dependence on the two of them: That is the fetter there.

...The intellect is not the fetter of ideas, nor are ideas the fetter of the intellect. Whatever desire & passion arises in dependence on the two of them: That is the fetter there."

— SN 35.191 (Koṭṭhika Sutta)

Full text: https://suttacentral.net/sn35.191/en/sujato

An Arahant or a Buddha still has the five aggregates. They still see, hear, feel, and think. But because they have ended upādāna (clinging/appropriation), those "sheer aggregates" are no longer a source of suffering.

Likewise, we see similar statements in Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism:

"My son, we are not bound by appearances; we are bound by our clinging to them."

— Tilopa to Naropa

"The five senses arising with their objects are unimpeded radiance.

What is born from not grasping at objects is the unborn basic state.

Attachment to appearances may be unceasing but reverse it: meditate naturally settled.

Empty appearances arising free from the intellect is the path of natural expressions.

Do not see appearances as problems, let go of clinging.

There will come a time when you will arrive in the valley of one taste meditation."

— Yang Gönpa

5. The Solution: Realizing Anatman (No-Self)

The way to end this suffering is to see through the illusion of a "self". This is the realization of anattā. The nun Vajirā gave a famous analogy for this:

“Why do you believe there’s such a thing as a ‘sentient being’?

Māra, is this your theory?

This is just a pile of conditions,

you won’t find a sentient being here.

When the parts are assembled

we use the word ‘chariot’.

So too, when the aggregates are present

‘sentient being’ is the convention we use.

But it’s only suffering that comes to be,

lasts a while, then expires.

Naught but suffering comes to be,

naught but suffering ceases.”

— SN 5.10 (Vajirā Sutta)

Full text: https://suttacentral.net/sn5.10/en/sujato

There is no "charioteer" (self) driving the chariot (aggregates), and no self/Self within nor apart from the aggregates. There is just the empty process manifesting due to dependent origination. When this is seen clearly, the basis for "I-making" and "mine-making" collapses.

6. The End of Appropriation = The End of Suffering

When appropriation ends, suffering ends. This is happiness and liberation. The Buddha used a powerful simile in the Alagaddūpama Sutta (The Water-Snake Simile):

“Therefore, bhikkhus, whatever is not yours, abandon it; when you have abandoned it, that will lead to your welfare and happiness for a long time. What is it that is not yours?

Material form is not yours. Abandon it. ...

Feeling is not yours. Abandon it. ...

Perception is not yours. Abandon it. ...

Formations are not yours. Abandon them. ...

Consciousness is not yours. Abandon it. ...

“Bhikkhus, what do you think? If people carried off the grass, sticks, branches, and leaves in this Jeta Grove, or burned them, or did what they liked with them, would you think: ‘People are carrying us off or burning us or doing what they like with us’?”

“No, venerable sir. Why not? Because that is neither our self nor what belongs to our self.”

“So too, bhikkhus, whatever is not yours, abandon it; when you have abandoned it, that will lead to your welfare and happiness for a long time.”

— MN 22 (Alagaddūpama Sutta)

Full text: https://suttacentral.net/mn22/en/bodhi

This "abandoning" is the practice. It's not a physical abandonment, but an abandonment of the view and grasping that these things are "me" or "mine."

A glimpse of what this non-appropriative experience is like is given in the Bāhiya Sutta:

“Therefore, Bāhiya, this is how you are to train yourself:

“In the seen, there will be just the seen.

In the heard, there will be just the heard.

In the sensed2, there will be just the sensed.

In the cognized, there will be just the cognized.

This, Bāhiya, is how you are to train yourself.

Bāhiya, when it is like this for you –

In the seen, there is just the seen,

In the heard, there is just the heard,

In the sensed, there is just the sensed,

In the cognized, there is just the cognized –

Then, Bāhiya, there will be no ‘you’ in terms of this.

When there is no ‘you’ in terms of this,

Then there is no ‘you’ there;

When there is no ‘you’ there,

There is no ‘you’ here, or beyond, or in between.

Just this is the end of suffering.”

Ud 1.10 (Bāhiya Sutta)


It is the realization and actualization that in seeing, there is just the seen, never a seer behind, and in hearing, only sound, never a hearer. No agent, experiencer, observer, doer, nor any substantiated objects to be found.

Read more for explanations on Anatman realization and how it liberates: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2012/09/great-resource-of-buddha-teachings.html



Also see: Appropriated Aggregates are Suffering