Showing posts with label Yoga. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Yoga. Show all posts
Soh

 Also see: Transcript of Lankavatara Sutra with Thusness 2007

Transcript with Thusness 2012 - Group Gathering


Second transcription done! Read at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MYAVGmj8JD8IAU8rQ7krwFvtGN1PNmaoDNLOCRcCTAw/edit ChatGPT's summary: Synopsis and Timeline of AtR Meeting, March 2021


I. INTRODUCTION AND CONTEXT (00:00–05:00)

Setting and Opening Remarks

  • The conversation begins informally with John Tan recalling an interaction many years prior with a 15-year-old who seemed to be talking about concepts related to emptiness (Nagarjuna and the Heart Sutra).
  • John expresses surprise that someone so young would discuss “emptiness here, emptiness there” and highlights the challenges of clarity in such discussions.

Early Dharma Exposure

  • Soh briefly mentions his own exposure to Dharma teachings, reading the Heart Sutra at a young age and developing an “intuitive understanding” that turned out later to be incomplete.
  • There is an indication that these early experiences planted the seeds for subsequent insights: “That was six years later… after my I Am, then non-dual, then I realized anatta.”

II. FIRST MAIN SEGMENT (05:00–20:00)
Early Insights, Anatta, and Schools of Buddhism

Phases of Insight

  • John Tan references writing about “phases of insight” years ago and notes how, beyond a certain phase, it becomes very difficult to articulate clearly.
  • He suggests anatta (no-self) is comparatively straightforward to realize, but “after that it may not be that easy.”

Yogacara vs. Madhyamaka

  • Discussion turns toward two major Mahayana schools:
    1. Yogacara / Wei Shi (Consciousness Only) – Emphasis on three natures (imagined, dependent, and perfect) and how we mistakenly treat conceptual constructs as independently real.
    2. Madhyamaka / Nagarjuna’s Emptiness – Key focus on seeing through inherent existence and extremes.
  • John highlights how Yogacara is not “just consciousness” but deeply about emptiness; it arose partly as a reaction to purely “nihilistic” readings of emptiness.

Constructs and Direct Experience

  • The speakers explore how anatta is the first instance of “seeing through construct,” dropping the sense of a background self.
  • The difference between direct experience (appearances, sensations) and our conceptual overlay is underscored.
  • John Tan warns that simply having a non-dual experience can still leave people clinging to a “universal Self” or “pure subjectivity.” True Buddhist insight (anatta) instead dissolves the background self altogether.

III. SECOND MAIN SEGMENT (20:00–35:00)
Deconstructing Inherent Existence, Cause and Effect, and the Nature of Appearances

Cause and Effect, Existence/Non-existence

  • John delves into classical Madhyamaka reasoning: analyzing production (whether things can arise from themselves, from others, both, or causelessly) and concluding that all such positions fail under ultimate analysis.
  • He highlights how language imposes constructs—like “in” vs. “out,” or “arising” vs. “ceasing”—and how we habitually assume an inherent reality behind those labels.

Seeing Through Constructs

  • The conversation emphasizes the subtlety of seeing through constructs for phenomena (not just for “self”).
  • John distinguishes the direct, intuitive taste of non-duality (where “in hearing, only sound”) from the thorough philosophical analysis that uproots the most deeply held beliefs about arising, abiding, and cessation.

Practice and Gradual Refinement

  • Even after initial realization of anatta, fully grasping the emptiness of causality or the emptiness of phenomena typically requires deeper study and contemplation.
  • John notes it is “not so simple” and “there is a lot of subtlety” when confronting conceptual proliferation at every level.

IV. THIRD MAIN SEGMENT (35:00–55:00)
Practice Methods, Non-dual Experience, and Overcoming Subsuming Tendencies

Practice Approaches

  • Koans (gong an) in Zen: forcing the mind to confront paradox (“Before birth, who are you?”), possibly leading to a powerful insight.
  • The difference between a fleeting experience of non-duality (“entry and exit”) and a stable wisdom that does not revert (meaning it does not revert to dualistic grasping).

Vipassana and Actionless Action (Wu Wei)

  • One speaker asks how simple body-sensation practices yield insight. John replies that in Buddhism, “wisdom” arises through seeing through constructs—yet certain practice styles (Vipassana, or Taoist “Wu Wei”) can also erode the sense of self in day-to-day life.
  • Taoism is mentioned (Chuang Tzu’s “sitting and forgetting,” merging with action) and paralleled with the Buddhist notion of anatta (Soh: although the former is a state of no-mind while the latter is a realisation into one's nature as a dharma seal, see Anatta is a Dharma Seal or Truth that is Always Already So, Anatta is Not a State). Buddhism, however, lays out the mechanics of emptiness more explicitly.

Buddhist Texts and Real-Life Application

  • John and others stress how some traditional Buddhist texts—especially those analyzing emptiness—provide a precise, systematic way to deconstruct mental constructs.
  • This clarity can help unify daily activity (like archery, dancing, or simply working) with a sense of no-agent, or “actionless action,” dissolving the doer–doing gap.

V. FOURTH MAIN SEGMENT (55:00–70:00)
Original Enlightenment vs. Practice Enlightenment, Dogen, and Further Nuances

Dogen and “Practice Enlightenment”

  • John references the Zen master Dogen’s famous question: If there is “original enlightenment,” why do we suffer? Dogen’s solution is “practice enlightenment,” meaning enlightenment is discovered only in and as each moment of activity.
  • John resonates with this as identical in spirit to the anatta insight: apart from walking, sitting, hearing, there is no separate, static “background purity.”

Buddha Nature and Subtle Clarity

  • Tibetan Dzogchen lines of thought appear, discussing “clear light” in deep meditation or at the final dissolution (bardo).
  • However, John clarifies that from the anatta perspective, any notion of an unchanging background presence is still a conceptual overlay. Realizing “presence is empty” is pivotal.

Solipsism vs. Emptiness

  • Subsuming everything into a single “Self” can lead to solipsism or idealism.
  • Buddhist non-duality denies a separate observer but also does not reduce the world to one’s private mind.

VI. FIFTH MAIN SEGMENT (70:00–END ~90:00)
Dreams, Deeper Practices, and Concluding Reflections

Dream Experiences and Advanced Stages

  • The conversation shifts to remarkable dream states, where insights or teachings arise that the individual does not fully grasp in waking life.
  • John and Soh share stories of vivid dream experiences in which they experience non-duality, “pure presence,” or even instructions on Kundalini-like energy work.

Phases Beyond Anatta

  • John references continuing stages: from anatta insight to deeper freedom from constructs (the “seventh phase” or “spontaneous presence” in his personal notes).
  • He points out such experiences can arise spontaneously in dreams or contemplations, offering further clarity.

Cautions and Remarks

  • John cautions against turning 'Awakening to Reality' (AtR) into a cult or rigid system. He emphasizes that it is intended for informal sharing rather than as an authoritative doctrine. However, he adds that what is expressed in AtR is authentic, meaning it is based on truths verified through personal experience.

VII. KEY THEMES AND INSIGHTS

  1. Seeing Through the Background Self

    • True anatta involves recognizing that the “background presence” is itself a mental or linguistic construct. Dropping this background yields effortless, non-dual perception.
  2. Distinction Between Temporary Experience and Lasting Insight

    • One may experience a flash of non-duality, but sustaining liberation requires deeper “prajna” (wisdom) that deconstructs all constructs.
  3. Yogacara and Madhyamaka

    • Both point to emptiness but approach it differently. Yogacara emphasizes the “three natures” (imagined, dependent, perfect), while Madhyamaka uses rigorous logic to dismantle inherent existence.
  4. Practice Enlightenment

    • Dogen’s teachings highlight that enlightenment is found precisely in ongoing practice—there is no hidden, original consciousness waiting; “apart from practice, there is no enlightenment.”
  5. Practical Methods

    • Day-to-day incorporation of non-dual awareness: merging with action (no “actor”), eliminating ideas of success/failure, abiding in the immediate moment without conceptual overlays. (Note by Soh: This part wasn't summarized well by ChatGPT, the practical methods go far beyond this and therefore I highly recommend reading the AtR Practice Guide at least: The Awakening to Reality Practice Guide and AtR Guide - abridged version)
  6. Dream States and Spontaneous Realizations

    • Dream experiences can reveal deeper insights or help articulate subtleties that the waking mind struggles to formulate.

VIII. CONCLUSION

Closing Remarks

  • The conversation tapers off with emphasis on not over-intellectualizing or turning the discussion into a dogma.
  • A final reminder is given that while reading texts, engaging reason, and reflecting on experiences are crucial, real transformation stems from one’s direct insight and ongoing practice.

Action Items / Takeaways

  • Continue contemplative and analytical approaches (e.g., Vipassana, Zen koans, Madhyamaka analysis) to break down conceptual clinging.
  • Appreciate that deeper stages of insight move beyond a simple flash of awakening and include embodying emptiness in every moment, including dreams and daily life.
  • Stay vigilant against reifying new insights into dogmas—personal verification is key.


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For those who prefer to listen in Audio, I recommend PC/phone read to text:

For iPhone Users

Download the PDF files:

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Add PDF files to the Books app:

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  2. Find the folder with the extracted PDFs.
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Use text-to-speech features:

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  2. Open the app, grant permissions, and choose a PDF file to listen to.
  3. Alternatively, use the built-in text-to-speech feature in Accessibility settings:
    • Go to Settings > Accessibility > Text-to-Speech Output.
    • Configure the settings and enable text-to-speech for PDF reading.

For Windows Users

Listen to PDFs using Microsoft Edge or Adobe Acrobat Reader:

  1. Open Microsoft Edge or Adobe Acrobat Reader.
  2. Open the PDF file.
  3. In Edge, click the book with speaker icon; in Acrobat Reader, find the read-aloud option in the View menu.
  4. Select "Read Aloud" and use the controls to manage playback.
  5. Adjust reading speed and voice in "Voice options."
  6. Stop the reading with the "X" button in the control bar.

Note: The "Read Aloud" feature is optimized for text-based PDFs and might not work as expected with PDFs composed of scanned images.

Soh

Below is a structured synopsis of the “ATR Meeting 28 October 2020” document, following the requested format. Times are approximate since the transcript begins after the first 17 minutes.

INTRODUCTION AND CONTEXT
• The meeting occurs on October 28, 2020, with multiple attendees (e.g., Kenneth, William Lam, John Tan, Soh, Sim Pern Chong, Jui Horne, Angelo, Pam, Nafis, etc).
• The first 17 minutes (not included in the transcript) deal with general conversation about the ongoing pandemic, its impact on businesses, and related personal updates.
• At around the 17-minute mark, the conversation shifts toward spiritual topics when Kenneth asks John Tan about the start of his spiritual awakening.

SEGMENTED TIMELINE

00:00–17:00 | (Omitted from Transcript) – Pandemic and Business Context
• General discussion of the pandemic’s effects on business and daily life.
• Setting the stage for a more personal and philosophical discussion that begins after minute 17.


17:00–30:00 | Early Spiritual Experiences and the “I AM” Stage
• John Tan describes his spiritual journey beginning around age 15, emphasizing the direct experience of consciousness referred to as “I AM” or Presence.
• He explains how conceptual thinking can obscure direct experience, and how, at first, one may experience a dualistic sense of being a subject separate from an object.
• The conversation touches on Buddhism and Hinduism, noting that both traditions use methods (such as koans or self-inquiry) to spark a direct realization of consciousness.
• John Tan highlights that early realization of Presence or “I AM” often feels nonconceptual, powerful, and liberating, yet may still retain dualistic notions of a background self.

30:00–45:00 | From “I AM” to Anatta
• John Tan recounts that years later (in 1997) he realized Anatta (no-self), wherein the notion of a separate subject dissolves completely.
• Discussion of dualistic versus nondual experiences: one can have a taste of Presence (the “I AM”) while still feeling a separate self in daily life. Anatta, by contrast, removes that background sense of a subject.
• William Lam asks about the cause of self. John Tan explains it as “reification”—turning a conceptual construct into a seemingly solid, separate “I.”
• The group references classical Buddhist ideas, noting that seeing through the self leads to direct, immediate experience of sound, sight, or sensation without a “someone” behind them.

45:00–60:00 | Reification, Madhyamaka, and Further Insights
• John Tan introduces the concept of “reification” more formally, relating it to Madhyamaka teachings (Nagarjuna’s philosophy): the sense of self, objects, and inherent existence are conceptual constructs.
• Comparison of different Tibetan Buddhist schools: Gelugpa (associated with Tsongkhapa) emphasizing “no inherent existence,” versus traditions (e.g., Mipham, Gorampa) that speak in terms of “freedom from extremes” and challenge any conceptual imputation.
• Kenneth and John discuss how language shapes experience (“the lightning flashes” implies a subject ‘lightning’ and an action ‘flashes,’ when in direct experience they are not two).
• John Tan notes the importance of continuing deconstruction: once self is seen through, one can also question the solidity of objects and physicality.

60:00–75:00 | Total Exertion and Maintaining Conventional Realities
• John Tan describes “total exertion”—an insight in which one feels intimately connected to all appearances in a seamless, vibrant way, yet diversity remains.
• This differs from collapsing everything into a single oneness; instead, phenomena remain distinct but without a separate sense of self or inherent existence.
• The group observes that one can retain ordinary designations (cup, table, etc.) while seeing through inherent existence, leading to a feeling of interconnection across time and space.
• William Lam asks how these insights arise: John Tan suggests a combination of meditative practice, study, and especially sincere questioning of one’s assumptions.

75:00–90:00 | Experience vs. Insight; Practice Methods
• John Tan distinguishes between a fleeting experience (e.g., a brief taste of spaciousness) and stable insight (seeing directly that there never was a self).
• Discussion covers the “I AM” phase versus a stable realization of anatta, plus how conceptual deconstruction in daily life supports direct, nondual experience.
• Participants mention that after anatta, one can feel continuous clarity without needing to meditate long hours, unlike the earlier “I AM” stage when one constantly tries to recapture Presence.

90:00–End | Taoism, Chinese Philosophy, and Parallel Practices
• The conversation explores Taoist ideas such as Wu Wei (actionless action) and the transformation of Qi, relating them to non-agency (no separate self acting).
• John Tan discusses the I Ching, Yin-Yang, and Five Elements, illustrating the deep Chinese emphasis on ceaseless transformation over static essence.
• He notes later Taoist incorporation of “inner light” teachings, possibly influenced by Buddhist concepts of primordial consciousness.
• Personal anecdotes arise about teachers, masters, and experiences that show parallels in Taoist and Buddhist approaches.

TOA PAYOH MEETING ENDING

OVERCOMING ATTACHMENT AND CONCEPTUAL DECONSTRUCTION

  • John Tan elaborates on overcoming attachment and the nature of attributes and objects.
  • He discusses how attributes like color are not inherent in objects but are dependent on consciousness and the whole exertion of consciousness​​.
  • Emphasizes the gradual process of deconstructing concepts such as cause and effect and attributes over years, leading to a deeper understanding of dependent origination​​ and emptiness.


KEY THEMES AND INSIGHTS

  1. Progression of Spiritual Realization
    – From the “I AM” or Presence phase (direct sense of being) to the eventual insight of Anatta (no-self).
    – Distinguishing between temporary experiences and abiding insights that transform one’s sense of self and world.

  2. Reification and Conceptual Constructs
    – How language and thought solidify fleeting phenomena into fixed entities, including the notion of a personal “I.”
    – Madhyamaka teachings on emptiness, comparing Tsongkhapa’s “no inherent existence” with other schools that emphasize the dissolution of all conceptual imputation.

  3. Total Exertion
    – A nondual sense of intimate connection with all phenomena (including past and future) while preserving the diversity of appearances.
    – Demonstrates that the dissolution of inherent existence does not erase or collapse conventional distinctions.

  4. Taoist Parallels
    – Wu Wei (non-agency) resonates with no-self and effortless action in Buddhism.
    – Emphasis on Qi, continuous transformation, and alignment with natural patterns.
    – Later Taoist works incorporate “inner light” teachings with possible Buddhist influence.

  5. Practice Approaches
    – Emphasis on sincere questioning, deconstruction of assumptions, and mindfulness or Vipashyana.
    – Importance of matching intellectual inquiry with direct experiential practice to move from fleeting glimpses to stable realization.

CONCLUSION

• The meeting closes on the topic of integrating these insights—Anatta, total exertion, Taoist philosophy—into everyday life.
• John Tan’s repeated guidance is to keep investigating one’s direct experience and be “very sincere, very objective” in seeing how concepts shape perception.
• While experiences like “I AM” or a glimpse of spacious awareness can be profound, the deeper transformation occurs through consistent insight into no-self, emptiness, and the effortless interrelatedness of all phenomena.

This synopsis captures the main flow of the discussion, from background and personal spiritual history to detailed analysis of concepts such as anatta, reification, and Taoist parallels. It highlights how the group explores these teachings in a lively, conversational manner, grounding philosophical points in lived experience.

-----


For those who prefer to listen in Audio, I recommend PC/phone read to text:

For iPhone Users

Download the PDF files:

  1. Open Safari on your iPhone.
  2. Go to the provided box.com link with the zip file of PDFs.
  3. Tap the zip file to download, then tap again to extract the contents in the Files app.

Add PDF files to the Books app:

  1. Open the Files app.
  2. Find the folder with the extracted PDFs.
  3. Select the PDFs, then tap "Share."
  4. Choose "Copy to Books" to add them to your Books library.

Listen to PDFs using Spoken Content:

  1. Go to Settings > Accessibility > Spoken Content.
  2. Enable "Speak Screen" and "Speech Controller."
  3. Open a PDF in the Books app.
  4. Tap the speech controller icon (a small floating button).
  5. Tap the play button on the speech controller to start reading the PDF aloud.

For Android Users

Download the PDF files:

  1. Use Chrome to visit the box.com link.
  2. Tap the zip file to download, then extract its contents using a file manager app.

Add PDF files to a PDF reader app:

  1. Open the file manager.
  2. Locate and open a PDF file with your preferred PDF reader app.

Use text-to-speech features:

  1. Download a text-to-speech app like Voice Aloud Reader or explore the latest options on Google Play Store.
  2. Open the app, grant permissions, and choose a PDF file to listen to.
  3. Alternatively, use the built-in text-to-speech feature in Accessibility settings:
    • Go to Settings > Accessibility > Text-to-Speech Output.
    • Configure the settings and enable text-to-speech for PDF reading.

For Windows Users

Listen to PDFs using Microsoft Edge or Adobe Acrobat Reader:

  1. Open Microsoft Edge or Adobe Acrobat Reader.
  2. Open the PDF file.
  3. In Edge, click the book with speaker icon; in Acrobat Reader, find the read-aloud option in the View menu.
  4. Select "Read Aloud" and use the controls to manage playback.
  5. Adjust reading speed and voice in "Voice options."
  6. Stop the reading with the "X" button in the control bar.

Note: The "Read Aloud" feature is optimized for text-based PDFs and might not work as expected with PDFs composed of scanned images.