"The thing is Kyle the water's fine, always has been and always will be."
I'm
not even sure what this means, but if you are stating that the
suffering of samsara is "fine" and acceptable (and always has been),
then you have unfortunately made a wrong turn somewhere.
.....
And
to clarify, I only harp on this issue like I do because I used to carry
the same view: that everything is already perfect... there's nothing to
realize... there's no one here to do anything... there's no such thing
as "correct" or "incorrect"... or that concepts were the enemy, and so
on, and so on, and so on. All the same narratives you see being spun by
most neo-nondual teachers and systems. I remember I used to argue with a
friend/mentor all the time about how he doesn't get it, and he's just
fooling himself with practice and so on. And I used to cite the same
quotations from Longchenpa and others that were speaking from the point
of view of the ultimate, and I (in my delusion) provided them as proof
that I was correct etc.
Then
one day that changed, and I experientially tasted what all of these
masters are pointing to. And I was shown directly that I had been wrong,
and that was very humbling.
That
made these teachings real for me. And surprisingly, instead of
continuing to reject practice, and all of these other aspects of these
systems that I had previously thought to be extraneous and a waste of
time... I saw their value and their place for the first time. It became
clear how and why they are applied, where they fit into the scheme of
things... and I saw the sheer wisdom behind the structures that I had
once mistakenly rejected.
So
I only speak out against those who attempt to propagate the same
mistakes because I've been there. I was so certain that I was right, and
that I "got it", and that others didn't understand. And I was so
wrong... unbelievably wrong.
I'm
no teacher or messiah, I don't have a superiority complex or have some
strange need to be "right", it's nothing like that. I simply speak out
because when I see others who appear to be passionate about these
teachings, making the same mistakes I made, I see myself, I can't help
but to want to say "hey, it really isn't that way." And if all I
accomplish is at least planting some shred of a seed of a possibility
that X person may think twice and consider being open to the fact that
they don't have it completely figured out, then that is good enough for
me. If not, that is alright too, but at least I can say I tried......
"As Longchenpa says, we are free as we are, as free as we will ever be, in this moment. No deferral required."
Seems
to be a massive case of confirmation bias going on here in terms of
what Longchenpa texts you are reading, and what passages from said texts
you are choosing to cherry pick in order to support your view. Because
he does not say you are free as you are, quite the opposite in fact:
"Though
primordially pure wisdom exists within us, by not recognizing it, we
wander here in samsara. This karma of ignorance produces ego-grasping.
By that in turn are produced passion, aggression, ignorance, pride, and
envy. It is because of these five poisons or kleshas that we are
whirling around here in samsara. Why so? As various habitual patterns
are superimposed on alaya, we enter into unhappiness.... [after going
over the beings who inhabit the six lokas, he states] Each of these
(beings) has their own realm of
existence,
with its happiness, sorrow, and the states between them. They have
their own sorts of good and evil behavior. So it is that we wander
helplessly in this plain of the beginningless and endless sufferings of
samsara, so difficult to cross.... Thinking about that, and seeing the
weariness of sentient beings, exhausted by the burden of their long
wandering here in samsara, I wanted to compose a treatise giving the
instructions of how we can ease this weariness."
This
is clearly not the exposition of a man who believes you are "free as
you are", which means you are taking that statement far out of context.
.....
Right, "everything is primordially liberated" is only true from the
standpoint of having recognized that, and when resting directly in that
knowledge [rig pa].
Those
who haven't recognized their nature, which is a vast majority, cannot
say everything is primordially liberated, because it isn't for them.
And
then for those who have recognized their nature: in the practice of a
Dzogchen yogin traversing the path, they fluctuate between mind [sems]
and wisdom [ye shes]. So while resting in wisdom, sure every thing
appears primordially liberated, because one is directly and
experientially cognizing emptiness. However once one becomes distracted
and falls back into mind they again perceive phenomena dualistically and
again cannot make blanketed statements like everything is primordially
liberated. Because while in post-equipoise they perceive conditioned
phenomena. The "path" of Dzogchen is the process of gaining stability in
that view, which is no walk in the park.
Only
those who have realized the result can say everything is primordially
liberated at all times. And those beings are rarer than stars in the
daytime, as it is said. Even my teacher Chögyal Namkhai Norbu says he is
not in a direct knowledge of his nature at all times. So to hear people
claim in this thread that they don't need to do anything and that all
is perfect just means they're living in a fantasy. Which is fine, but
should be pointed out as the misconception it is.Which takes years,
decades, lifetimes, and is why serious Dzogchenpas spend their entire
lives practicing in solitary retreats.The Nyarong Tertön Rinpoche (i.e.,
Tertön Sogyal) said:
“At
this, the time for discovering Buddha directly, you must remain alone,
without companions, in an isolated mountain retreat—with a staff to the
right, a container of grain to the left, a copper pot in front, and a
cave behind. From now until the attainment of enlightenment, you must
look upwards, entrusting ourselves to the teacher and Three Jewels, and
downwards, into the naked unity of awareness and emptiness. At all times
and in all situations, you must guard the fortress of the view, just as
you would cherish a diamond. And you must continue meditating until,
your eyes turned lifeless and blue, you breathe your very last breath.”
Again, these are not examples of advice given by individuals who think there's nothing to do and everything is already perfect.