Showing posts with label Advaita. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Advaita. Show all posts
Soh

 

AWAKENING TO THE NATURAL STATE

by

JOHN WHEELER

 

From: Awakening to the Natural State; Chap.1 – Meeting ‘Sailor’ Bob Adamson

I had been on the spiritual path from my teenage years. For about thirty years I had been involved in various paths and practices, including Christianity, Theosophy, the teachings of J. Krishnamurti (I went to his talks in Ojai in the 1980s), Buddhism, Hinduism, and yoga. There were other paths and teachers also, too numerous to mention here. In my mid-twenties, I was introduced to Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta Maharaj (through books on their lives and teachings). Something about those great Indian teachers of non-dual spirituality seemed solid and unshakable. I found myself returning to their teachings over the years, even though I can’t say I fully (or even partially) understood or experienced what they were talking about.

Along the way, I did the circuit of many of the contemporary teachers involved in non-dual spirituality. There was undoubtedly a benefit, but I was not fully satisfied for some reason. Either it was my confusion or something was not fully clear in the teachings being presented. Most likely the former! For some reason my destiny was to meet ‘Sailor’ Bob Adamson, one of Nisargadatta Maharaj’s Western students.

What I found was that there was only so much I could get from books and meditating on my own. The growth was there, but it was often slow, and I was not getting much direct experience. I vaguely felt that I was progressing, but if I honestly looked at my experience, I did not fully understand what the teachers were pointing to. Most importantly, my day-to-day life was not free of suffering. I knew the seeking was not over; something was missing. Had I not met Bob Adamson, the seeking might have gone on for decades, or at least until I met someone with a real understanding. Who knows who that might have been or when, but, barring that, I am pretty sure the seeking – and suffering – would have continued for a long time.

At one point, I met some Ramana Maharshi followers who had been on the path of self-inquiry for twenty or thirty years (and still working at it, I might add!). I was nowhere near their level of devotion, so it was pretty much out the picture that that approach would work for me. As I look at this now, it is not so much Ramana’s teaching that is at fault, but the mind’s inevitable tendency to turn any teaching into a practice. Practices, as I eventually learned, usually are interminable. This is because they are often based on false premises.

Intuitively, I felt that it was important for me to meet someone who had realized their true nature, someone whom I could trust, someone whom I could talk with in order to share my doubts and concerns. However, I was unsure which teachers were authentic; none seemed to resonate fully. I used to read Nisargadatta Maharaj’s dialogues frequently. I could not understand his teaching fully, given all the Hindu verbiage and translation issues (he originally spoke in Marathi), but I felt intuitively that he was a free being. Many spiritual seekers, through reading his words, can sense the genuineness of his realization, even if they do not always experience everything he talks about. I used to wonder if there was anyone still living who had met Nisargadatta Maharaj and had really got the experience of self-knowledge. After all those years of searching, I eventually stumbled across Bob Adamson. Something resonated strongly. Even when I read the pages on his website, there was a strong feeling of ‘maybe this is it’.

Just prior to discovering Bob Adamson, I had a vivid dream of Nisargadatta Maharaj, in which he was encouraging me not to give up the search for spiritual understanding. Shortly afterwards, I learned about Bob Adamson. Not wanting to miss the chance of meeting an authentic teacher (having missed the chance to see Nisargadatta Maharaj while he was alive), I decided to visit Bob in person in Australia. You can imagine my motivation (or perhaps desperation!) in going to Australia on the chance that he might be able to clarify my doubts and questions.

What I have found is that the understanding of our true nature almost never comes from reading books or thinking about it. The best books are primarily the records of dialogues that took place between a seeker and a teacher at some point in the past. In reading such books, we are trying to understand an experience that took place in the past (through words and concepts on the page). A book is like a map pointing to something real that was experienced in a dialogue between living people. Usually, we do not have a clear understanding of what is being revealed (at least I didn’t) and we are trying to figure it out in the mind. This is a noble attempt, but as Bob Adamson pointed out within a few minutes of talking to him, ‘The answer can never be found in the mind’. The experience of spiritual understanding and freedom is not forthcoming, so we naturally assume that we are not ‘there’ (wherever ‘there’ is). We think there must be some technique or path involved to get there. But somehow we are not quite sure what it is! The result is that the mind keeps generating the same old bondage and suffering. This is a frustrating cycle, because we intuitively feel a glimmer of light or truth in the readings, but the actual experience eludes us. The majority of seekers that I have met have had a similar experience. Many are driven to try to find a living teacher, in order to get some guidance and assistance on the spiritual path. This was what happened for me.

I met many teachers, but it wasn’t until I met Bob Adamson that I was convinced that I was dealing with someone who had fully realized his true nature. Something radically shifted for me because I came face-to-face with the vitality, the confidence, the energy of that understanding. It was a remarkable experience and quite different from anything I had encountered in my years of seeking. The first day after I arrived, we had a chance to meet and talk. As we sat together, he looked me in the eyes and said point blank, ‘Do you have any doubts or questions? Is there anything you need to know?’ It was somewhat disarming because I realized he was free of doubts and was essentially offering me a chance to have the same experience for myself right then and there. The implication, it seemed to me, was ‘The seeking is over, the reading is over. You are here. Are you ready to go for this completely here and now?’ Fortunately, I jumped at the chance. I cast aside my theoretical knowledge and got down to getting off my chest my real doubts, questions and problems.

Surprisingly, things cleared up very quickly. Being face-to-face with that clarity – coupled with my own desire to be free – allowed things to shift quickly. The basic teaching is very simple, almost too simple. It is so simple the mind overlooks it. What I didn’t realize was that it has nothing to do with reading, meditating, doing something, working something out, stilling the mind, and so on. All of the techniques are looking in the wrong direction. Nisargadatta Maharaj used to say, ‘Understanding is all’. In essence, Bob was saying, ‘Right now in your direct experience see what your real nature is. What are you right now? What have you always been?’ The thinking mind is useless for this because seeing or looking is not a conceptual function at all. It is more like seeing an apple in your hand. You just look, not think.

Right now, as you read this, you exist and you are aware that you exist. You are undoubtedly present and aware. Before the next thought arises, you are absolutely certain of the fact of your own being, your own awareness, your own presence. This awareness is what you are; it is what you always have been. All thoughts, perceptions, sensations and feelings appear within or upon that. This awareness does not move, change or shift at any time. It is always free and completely untouched. However, it is not a thing or an object that you can see or grasp. The mind, being simply thoughts arising in awareness, cannot grasp it or know it or even think about it. Yet, as Bob says, you cannot deny the fact of your own being. It is palpably obvious, and yet, from the time we were born, no one has pointed this out. Once it is pointed out it can be grasped or understood very quickly because it is just a matter of noticing, ‘Oh, that is what I am!’ It is a bright, luminous, empty, presence of awareness; it is absolutely radiant, yet without form; it is seemingly intangible, but the most solid fact in your existence; it is effortlessly here right now, forever untouched. Without taking a step, you have arrived; you are home. No practice can reveal this because practices are in time and in the mind. Practices aim at a result, but you (as presence-awareness) are here already, only you don’t recognize it till it is pointed out. Once seen, you can’t lose it, and you don’t have to practice to exist, to be. This is, in essence, what Bob pointed out to me in the first conversation I had with him

Once I saw this, I felt very clear and free immediately. Later, some thoughts came up, some old personality patterns, some old definitions of who I thought myself to be. I seemed to lose the clear understanding of my nature as presence-awareness. The next day, I talked to Bob about it. He said, ‘Let’s have a look. Do you exist? Are you aware? What is illumining the thought that you have lost it?’ Then I realized that thoughts of suffering were only passing concepts being illumined by the ever-present awareness. I hadn’t lost anything at all. The awareness that we are is never obscured! Suffering seems real because we don’t have a clear understanding of our true nature. Instead, we believe the passing thoughts, such as ‘I am no good,’ ‘I am not there yet,’ ‘I am stuck’ or whatever the thought may be. Eventually we understand that we are not those thoughts. Once our real self is pointed out, the suffering loses its grip.

Bob pointed out that there is no person here at all. The person that we think we are is an imaginary concept. There are thoughts and feelings and perceptions, but they are not a problem. They just rise and fall like dust motes in the light of the presence-awareness that we are.

The closest that the mind can come to representing who we are is the thought ‘I am’. But that thought is not who we really are. Whether that thought is there or not, we still exist. We know the thought ‘I am’. That thought is the start of the false sense of an individual, a separate ‘I’. Because we didn’t know any better, the mind attached other labels to this ‘I’ thought, such as ‘I am good,’ ‘I am bad,’ ‘I have this problem,’ and so on. But those thoughts don’t have anything to do with us, because the very ‘I’ thought itself, the sense of separation, is not actually who we are. Once you see the falseness of the ‘I’ thought, that what we are is not an individual person at all, the identifications and ideas of a lifetime all collapse because they are all based on a false premise.

There is no practice to overcome suffering. It is simply a matter of seeing that the false ‘I’ is an assumption, that the whole mechanism is a conceptual house of cards. Then a lifetime of suffering evaporates. As Bob says, without the cause (the ‘I’), can there be any effects (psychological suffering and bondage)?

As I sat on his couch at one of his talks listening to him say ‘There is no person,’ suddenly it hit me. I looked and saw that right now and here, there is not a separate person in the picture at all. In that moment, all my doubts and confusion evaporated. I realized that all problems and questions stem from the sense of an ‘I’ that was assumed to be there at the centre of my life. Upon actual looking, I discovered it was not there at all. Fifteen years of meditating could not accomplish what occurred in a few moments of direct looking. In that recognition arose a direct and immediate sense of clarity and peace. I intuitively felt that the searching was over. I recall raising my hand and asking Bob, ‘So when you see yourself as the ever-present awareness and that the “I” that we imagined ourselves to be is really non-existent, then there can be no more doubts, questions, or problems. Is that it?’ He confirmed that this was so. From that moment on, I have not felt any serious difficulty or suffering, nor felt the slightest desire or urge to seek, meditate, or pursue any particular spiritual path. The whole landscape shifted and I intuitively knew the seeking was over. The ‘I’ upon which everything was based was not there. However, the shining presence-awareness was still there without effort, the simple fact of our own being.

Finally, Bob pointed out that all things arise in awareness and never exist apart from awareness. It is all one substance, all one light; it is all that; it is non-duality. There is nowhere to go and nothing to obtain. Everything is resolved. We ‘live, move, and have our being’ in that one ocean of light and never, ever move away from that.

This was the understanding that came to me, courtesy of Bob Adamson. It is all words, but maybe a glimmer of something will come through.

How This Understanding Unfolded for Me

The way this understanding unfolded for me was through the following insights. Bob pointed out to me the truth of our nature as presence-awareness or cognizing emptiness. Somehow that clicked for me. It was not so much the words, which I had read countless times before. It was the energy or vitality coming through the words that was potent and impactful. I sensed he was not only saying the words, but also living from that realization. This enabled a resonance to occur. To meet Nisargadatta Maharaj in person and partake in a living dialogue with him would likely have been more potent than reading his book I AM THAT. There was a huge difference between reading the words on paper ‘You are awareness’ and having a direct disciple of Nisargadatta Maharaj tell me in no uncertain terms, ‘You are awareness!’

After having seen this, and feeling some sense of freedom, I still seemed to lose it when contradictory thoughts arose. Bob pointed out that this is, in fact, not possible. You cannot lose your true nature, because it is the substratum of any thinking and perceiving. I realized that we can never leave this. Even if the thought ‘I lost it’ arises, the awareness is there knowing that thought. So the thought  is patently false.

The ‘knock-out blow’ was seeing the absence of a person. There is no such entity in the machine. There are only thoughts, experiences and objects arising and subsiding in awareness. There is no one controlling them and no one affected by them. Once this is seen, everything happens just as before, but the imagined person is removed from the film. The film goes on but there is no person starring in it. There are thoughts, but no thinker; actions, but no actor; choices, but no choice-maker. Basically, there is no difference from before, except the sense of separation is gone, along with the psychological suffering, confusion and doubt that appears along with the belief in a separate ‘I’. There is no one at the controls. Life is happening; thoughts are arising; actions are occurring spontaneously. You, as a separate person, are not doing any of these things. You don’t choose your thoughts, feelings, sensations. As Bob says, ‘You are being lived’.

As a final tying up of loose ends, it was helpful to see the fact that all experiences are just movements in awareness. They are like waves arising and falling in the awareness that we are. It is all one substance. There is only one energy, one substance, one taste. Past, future, there, here, I, you, this, that, and so on, are all just conceptual distinctions. Even concepts are that awareness. So you can’t win.

So what is the result? As the writer Wei Wu Wei once wrote, ‘The only problem is that 99.9% of everything you think, say and do is for yourself – and there isn’t one!’ Coming into alignment with the true state of affairs means that the usual strife, struggle and suffering based on wrong understanding vanishes. Life goes on. It is like a dislocated limb popping back into place. You can hardly say what happened, but suddenly everything feels a lot better! Nisargadatta Maharaj said something to the effect, ‘You can only put it negatively: there is nothing wrong anymore’. There is a distinct recognition that the searching is over. You may read books or visit spiritual teachers but you have the experience that they are saying what you already know.

In actual practice, while this understanding is sinking in, the seeker is often plagued by vestigial doubts, questions, and concerns, in spite of however advanced the intellectual understanding may be. I have seen many (including myself) able to converse on all this with the most incredible precision and verbal acumen. The only test is in day-to-day direct experience at the gut, emotional level. Is there any sense of suffering, separation, anxiety or fear? Am I feeling doubt or metaphysical uncertainty? Is the knowledge of my true nature unshakable? If not, the understanding is not complete. The best course, it seems to me, is to find a living teacher and get your doubts resolved directly. Nisargadatta Maharaj used to say, ‘I am not interested in what you have let go of, but what you are still holding onto’. A good teacher can help us resolve any remaining doubts. Then the understanding simply remains clear and steady and beyond doubt.

Soh

 Also see: Transcript of Lankavatara Sutra with Thusness 2007

Transcript with Thusness 2012 - Group Gathering


Second transcription done! Read at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MYAVGmj8JD8IAU8rQ7krwFvtGN1PNmaoDNLOCRcCTAw/edit ChatGPT's summary: Synopsis and Timeline of AtR Meeting, March 2021


I. INTRODUCTION AND CONTEXT (00:00–05:00)

Setting and Opening Remarks

  • The conversation begins informally with John Tan recalling an interaction many years prior with a 15-year-old who seemed to be talking about concepts related to emptiness (Nagarjuna and the Heart Sutra).
  • John expresses surprise that someone so young would discuss “emptiness here, emptiness there” and highlights the challenges of clarity in such discussions.

Early Dharma Exposure

  • Soh briefly mentions his own exposure to Dharma teachings, reading the Heart Sutra at a young age and developing an “intuitive understanding” that turned out later to be incomplete.
  • There is an indication that these early experiences planted the seeds for subsequent insights: “That was six years later… after my I Am, then non-dual, then I realized anatta.”

II. FIRST MAIN SEGMENT (05:00–20:00)
Early Insights, Anatta, and Schools of Buddhism

Phases of Insight

  • John Tan references writing about “phases of insight” years ago and notes how, beyond a certain phase, it becomes very difficult to articulate clearly.
  • He suggests anatta (no-self) is comparatively straightforward to realize, but “after that it may not be that easy.”

Yogacara vs. Madhyamaka

  • Discussion turns toward two major Mahayana schools:
    1. Yogacara / Wei Shi (Consciousness Only) – Emphasis on three natures (imagined, dependent, and perfect) and how we mistakenly treat conceptual constructs as independently real.
    2. Madhyamaka / Nagarjuna’s Emptiness – Key focus on seeing through inherent existence and extremes.
  • John highlights how Yogacara is not “just consciousness” but deeply about emptiness; it arose partly as a reaction to purely “nihilistic” readings of emptiness.

Constructs and Direct Experience

  • The speakers explore how anatta is the first instance of “seeing through construct,” dropping the sense of a background self.
  • The difference between direct experience (appearances, sensations) and our conceptual overlay is underscored.
  • John Tan warns that simply having a non-dual experience can still leave people clinging to a “universal Self” or “pure subjectivity.” True Buddhist insight (anatta) instead dissolves the background self altogether.

III. SECOND MAIN SEGMENT (20:00–35:00)
Deconstructing Inherent Existence, Cause and Effect, and the Nature of Appearances

Cause and Effect, Existence/Non-existence

  • John delves into classical Madhyamaka reasoning: analyzing production (whether things can arise from themselves, from others, both, or causelessly) and concluding that all such positions fail under ultimate analysis.
  • He highlights how language imposes constructs—like “in” vs. “out,” or “arising” vs. “ceasing”—and how we habitually assume an inherent reality behind those labels.

Seeing Through Constructs

  • The conversation emphasizes the subtlety of seeing through constructs for phenomena (not just for “self”).
  • John distinguishes the direct, intuitive taste of non-duality (where “in hearing, only sound”) from the thorough philosophical analysis that uproots the most deeply held beliefs about arising, abiding, and cessation.

Practice and Gradual Refinement

  • Even after initial realization of anatta, fully grasping the emptiness of causality or the emptiness of phenomena typically requires deeper study and contemplation.
  • John notes it is “not so simple” and “there is a lot of subtlety” when confronting conceptual proliferation at every level.

IV. THIRD MAIN SEGMENT (35:00–55:00)
Practice Methods, Non-dual Experience, and Overcoming Subsuming Tendencies

Practice Approaches

  • Koans (gong an) in Zen: forcing the mind to confront paradox (“Before birth, who are you?”), possibly leading to a powerful insight.
  • The difference between a fleeting experience of non-duality (“entry and exit”) and a stable wisdom that does not revert (meaning it does not revert to dualistic grasping).

Vipassana and Actionless Action (Wu Wei)

  • One speaker asks how simple body-sensation practices yield insight. John replies that in Buddhism, “wisdom” arises through seeing through constructs—yet certain practice styles (Vipassana, or Taoist “Wu Wei”) can also erode the sense of self in day-to-day life.
  • Taoism is mentioned (Chuang Tzu’s “sitting and forgetting,” merging with action) and paralleled with the Buddhist notion of anatta (Soh: although the former is a state of no-mind while the latter is a realisation into one's nature as a dharma seal, see Anatta is a Dharma Seal or Truth that is Always Already So, Anatta is Not a State). Buddhism, however, lays out the mechanics of emptiness more explicitly.

Buddhist Texts and Real-Life Application

  • John and others stress how some traditional Buddhist texts—especially those analyzing emptiness—provide a precise, systematic way to deconstruct mental constructs.
  • This clarity can help unify daily activity (like archery, dancing, or simply working) with a sense of no-agent, or “actionless action,” dissolving the doer–doing gap.

V. FOURTH MAIN SEGMENT (55:00–70:00)
Original Enlightenment vs. Practice Enlightenment, Dogen, and Further Nuances

Dogen and “Practice Enlightenment”

  • John references the Zen master Dogen’s famous question: If there is “original enlightenment,” why do we suffer? Dogen’s solution is “practice enlightenment,” meaning enlightenment is discovered only in and as each moment of activity.
  • John resonates with this as identical in spirit to the anatta insight: apart from walking, sitting, hearing, there is no separate, static “background purity.”

Buddha Nature and Subtle Clarity

  • Tibetan Dzogchen lines of thought appear, discussing “clear light” in deep meditation or at the final dissolution (bardo).
  • However, John clarifies that from the anatta perspective, any notion of an unchanging background presence is still a conceptual overlay. Realizing “presence is empty” is pivotal.

Solipsism vs. Emptiness

  • Subsuming everything into a single “Self” can lead to solipsism or idealism.
  • Buddhist non-duality denies a separate observer but also does not reduce the world to one’s private mind.

VI. FIFTH MAIN SEGMENT (70:00–END ~90:00)
Dreams, Deeper Practices, and Concluding Reflections

Dream Experiences and Advanced Stages

  • The conversation shifts to remarkable dream states, where insights or teachings arise that the individual does not fully grasp in waking life.
  • John and Soh share stories of vivid dream experiences in which they experience non-duality, “pure presence,” or even instructions on Kundalini-like energy work.

Phases Beyond Anatta

  • John references continuing stages: from anatta insight to deeper freedom from constructs (the “seventh phase” or “spontaneous presence” in his personal notes).
  • He points out such experiences can arise spontaneously in dreams or contemplations, offering further clarity.

Cautions and Remarks

  • John cautions against turning 'Awakening to Reality' (AtR) into a cult or rigid system. He emphasizes that it is intended for informal sharing rather than as an authoritative doctrine. However, he adds that what is expressed in AtR is authentic, meaning it is based on truths verified through personal experience.

VII. KEY THEMES AND INSIGHTS

  1. Seeing Through the Background Self

    • True anatta involves recognizing that the “background presence” is itself a mental or linguistic construct. Dropping this background yields effortless, non-dual perception.
  2. Distinction Between Temporary Experience and Lasting Insight

    • One may experience a flash of non-duality, but sustaining liberation requires deeper “prajna” (wisdom) that deconstructs all constructs.
  3. Yogacara and Madhyamaka

    • Both point to emptiness but approach it differently. Yogacara emphasizes the “three natures” (imagined, dependent, perfect), while Madhyamaka uses rigorous logic to dismantle inherent existence.
  4. Practice Enlightenment

    • Dogen’s teachings highlight that enlightenment is found precisely in ongoing practice—there is no hidden, original consciousness waiting; “apart from practice, there is no enlightenment.”
  5. Practical Methods

    • Day-to-day incorporation of non-dual awareness: merging with action (no “actor”), eliminating ideas of success/failure, abiding in the immediate moment without conceptual overlays. (Note by Soh: This part wasn't summarized well by ChatGPT, the practical methods go far beyond this and therefore I highly recommend reading the AtR Practice Guide at least: The Awakening to Reality Practice Guide and AtR Guide - abridged version)
  6. Dream States and Spontaneous Realizations

    • Dream experiences can reveal deeper insights or help articulate subtleties that the waking mind struggles to formulate.

VIII. CONCLUSION

Closing Remarks

  • The conversation tapers off with emphasis on not over-intellectualizing or turning the discussion into a dogma.
  • A final reminder is given that while reading texts, engaging reason, and reflecting on experiences are crucial, real transformation stems from one’s direct insight and ongoing practice.

Action Items / Takeaways

  • Continue contemplative and analytical approaches (e.g., Vipassana, Zen koans, Madhyamaka analysis) to break down conceptual clinging.
  • Appreciate that deeper stages of insight move beyond a simple flash of awakening and include embodying emptiness in every moment, including dreams and daily life.
  • Stay vigilant against reifying new insights into dogmas—personal verification is key.


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For those who prefer to listen in Audio, I recommend PC/phone read to text:

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Soh

Below is a structured synopsis of the “ATR Meeting 28 October 2020” document, following the requested format. Times are approximate since the transcript begins after the first 17 minutes.

INTRODUCTION AND CONTEXT
• The meeting occurs on October 28, 2020, with multiple attendees (e.g., Kenneth, William Lam, John Tan, Soh, Sim Pern Chong, Jui Horne, Angelo, Pam, Nafis, etc).
• The first 17 minutes (not included in the transcript) deal with general conversation about the ongoing pandemic, its impact on businesses, and related personal updates.
• At around the 17-minute mark, the conversation shifts toward spiritual topics when Kenneth asks John Tan about the start of his spiritual awakening.

SEGMENTED TIMELINE

00:00–17:00 | (Omitted from Transcript) – Pandemic and Business Context
• General discussion of the pandemic’s effects on business and daily life.
• Setting the stage for a more personal and philosophical discussion that begins after minute 17.


17:00–30:00 | Early Spiritual Experiences and the “I AM” Stage
• John Tan describes his spiritual journey beginning around age 15, emphasizing the direct experience of consciousness referred to as “I AM” or Presence.
• He explains how conceptual thinking can obscure direct experience, and how, at first, one may experience a dualistic sense of being a subject separate from an object.
• The conversation touches on Buddhism and Hinduism, noting that both traditions use methods (such as koans or self-inquiry) to spark a direct realization of consciousness.
• John Tan highlights that early realization of Presence or “I AM” often feels nonconceptual, powerful, and liberating, yet may still retain dualistic notions of a background self.

30:00–45:00 | From “I AM” to Anatta
• John Tan recounts that years later (in 1997) he realized Anatta (no-self), wherein the notion of a separate subject dissolves completely.
• Discussion of dualistic versus nondual experiences: one can have a taste of Presence (the “I AM”) while still feeling a separate self in daily life. Anatta, by contrast, removes that background sense of a subject.
• William Lam asks about the cause of self. John Tan explains it as “reification”—turning a conceptual construct into a seemingly solid, separate “I.”
• The group references classical Buddhist ideas, noting that seeing through the self leads to direct, immediate experience of sound, sight, or sensation without a “someone” behind them.

45:00–60:00 | Reification, Madhyamaka, and Further Insights
• John Tan introduces the concept of “reification” more formally, relating it to Madhyamaka teachings (Nagarjuna’s philosophy): the sense of self, objects, and inherent existence are conceptual constructs.
• Comparison of different Tibetan Buddhist schools: Gelugpa (associated with Tsongkhapa) emphasizing “no inherent existence,” versus traditions (e.g., Mipham, Gorampa) that speak in terms of “freedom from extremes” and challenge any conceptual imputation.
• Kenneth and John discuss how language shapes experience (“the lightning flashes” implies a subject ‘lightning’ and an action ‘flashes,’ when in direct experience they are not two).
• John Tan notes the importance of continuing deconstruction: once self is seen through, one can also question the solidity of objects and physicality.

60:00–75:00 | Total Exertion and Maintaining Conventional Realities
• John Tan describes “total exertion”—an insight in which one feels intimately connected to all appearances in a seamless, vibrant way, yet diversity remains.
• This differs from collapsing everything into a single oneness; instead, phenomena remain distinct but without a separate sense of self or inherent existence.
• The group observes that one can retain ordinary designations (cup, table, etc.) while seeing through inherent existence, leading to a feeling of interconnection across time and space.
• William Lam asks how these insights arise: John Tan suggests a combination of meditative practice, study, and especially sincere questioning of one’s assumptions.

75:00–90:00 | Experience vs. Insight; Practice Methods
• John Tan distinguishes between a fleeting experience (e.g., a brief taste of spaciousness) and stable insight (seeing directly that there never was a self).
• Discussion covers the “I AM” phase versus a stable realization of anatta, plus how conceptual deconstruction in daily life supports direct, nondual experience.
• Participants mention that after anatta, one can feel continuous clarity without needing to meditate long hours, unlike the earlier “I AM” stage when one constantly tries to recapture Presence.

90:00–End | Taoism, Chinese Philosophy, and Parallel Practices
• The conversation explores Taoist ideas such as Wu Wei (actionless action) and the transformation of Qi, relating them to non-agency (no separate self acting).
• John Tan discusses the I Ching, Yin-Yang, and Five Elements, illustrating the deep Chinese emphasis on ceaseless transformation over static essence.
• He notes later Taoist incorporation of “inner light” teachings, possibly influenced by Buddhist concepts of primordial consciousness.
• Personal anecdotes arise about teachers, masters, and experiences that show parallels in Taoist and Buddhist approaches.

TOA PAYOH MEETING ENDING

OVERCOMING ATTACHMENT AND CONCEPTUAL DECONSTRUCTION

  • John Tan elaborates on overcoming attachment and the nature of attributes and objects.
  • He discusses how attributes like color are not inherent in objects but are dependent on consciousness and the whole exertion of consciousness​​.
  • Emphasizes the gradual process of deconstructing concepts such as cause and effect and attributes over years, leading to a deeper understanding of dependent origination​​ and emptiness.


KEY THEMES AND INSIGHTS

  1. Progression of Spiritual Realization
    – From the “I AM” or Presence phase (direct sense of being) to the eventual insight of Anatta (no-self).
    – Distinguishing between temporary experiences and abiding insights that transform one’s sense of self and world.

  2. Reification and Conceptual Constructs
    – How language and thought solidify fleeting phenomena into fixed entities, including the notion of a personal “I.”
    – Madhyamaka teachings on emptiness, comparing Tsongkhapa’s “no inherent existence” with other schools that emphasize the dissolution of all conceptual imputation.

  3. Total Exertion
    – A nondual sense of intimate connection with all phenomena (including past and future) while preserving the diversity of appearances.
    – Demonstrates that the dissolution of inherent existence does not erase or collapse conventional distinctions.

  4. Taoist Parallels
    – Wu Wei (non-agency) resonates with no-self and effortless action in Buddhism.
    – Emphasis on Qi, continuous transformation, and alignment with natural patterns.
    – Later Taoist works incorporate “inner light” teachings with possible Buddhist influence.

  5. Practice Approaches
    – Emphasis on sincere questioning, deconstruction of assumptions, and mindfulness or Vipashyana.
    – Importance of matching intellectual inquiry with direct experiential practice to move from fleeting glimpses to stable realization.

CONCLUSION

• The meeting closes on the topic of integrating these insights—Anatta, total exertion, Taoist philosophy—into everyday life.
• John Tan’s repeated guidance is to keep investigating one’s direct experience and be “very sincere, very objective” in seeing how concepts shape perception.
• While experiences like “I AM” or a glimpse of spacious awareness can be profound, the deeper transformation occurs through consistent insight into no-self, emptiness, and the effortless interrelatedness of all phenomena.

This synopsis captures the main flow of the discussion, from background and personal spiritual history to detailed analysis of concepts such as anatta, reification, and Taoist parallels. It highlights how the group explores these teachings in a lively, conversational manner, grounding philosophical points in lived experience.

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