Showing posts with label Science. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Science. Show all posts
John tan shared with me “federico faggin new book. Go watch the entire YouTube. I bought his book...haha. I like scientists that explore the nature consciousness... Haha.”



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Ehh.. reminds me of this show. Nice show.
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William Lim, Sim Pern Chong and 1 other


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  • William Lim
    Yah, some people can get depressed when you tell them that the law of physics doesn't apply... or that there is no space, no time and even no self 😂
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  • Aditya Prasad
    Yes. This is why I'm always surprised to hear John Tan say that our view must be consistent with physics. Physics as we know it today only describes this particular reality. Realization shows what applies more generally -- how realities are dreamed up in the first place.
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    • Aditya Prasad
      Though in a way, QM even as we know it today offers hints into that, too. In particular, how every reality must have a particular fundamental "openness."
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  • Soh Wei Yu
    Aditya Prasad john tan and science copy pasta begins
    [15/4/18, 10:50:02 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Btw other than human and animal realm, do the other realms follow law of physics? If they do then they can be detected by instruments.. or is it completely non physical mental universe like a dream
    [15/4/18, 10:50:34 PM] Soh Wei Yu: I know one famous Buddhist master.. as in from ancient times that said hell is totally mental
    [15/4/18, 10:51:44 PM] John Tan: Physics only relates to “physical”
    [15/4/18, 10:52:50 PM] John Tan: When we are conditioned by forms, we hv this issue of needing the physical laws to “authenticate” validity of our experiences.
    [15/4/18, 10:53:47 PM] Soh Wei Yu: I was reading ken wilber view.. he suggests beings like guan yin etc experienced in visionary are not exactly literal external beings but an archetypal manifestation of one’s own true nature and from the common psyche or something like that lol.. idk what to make of it
    [15/4/18, 10:53:50 PM] John Tan: When we do energy practice, whole universe becomes energy patterning.
    [15/4/18, 10:54:00 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
    [15/4/18, 10:54:40 PM] John Tan: When we see everything as consciousness, whole universe becomes manifestation of consciousness.
    [15/4/18, 10:57:04 PM] John Tan: When we stop identification with forms and do energy practice, birth and death becomes exchanges of energies and vibrations.
    I prefer to die with prana and consciousness as it can b authenticate directly with experiences.
    [15/4/18, 11:00:55 PM] John Tan: I prefer to deal 🤣🤣🤣
    [3/2/18, 1:54:01 AM] John Tan: Quantum is weirder then u thinkat the microscopic level, not at mansize level.
    [3/2/18, 1:54:26 AM] John Tan: Don't apply wrong laws to different
    [3/2/18, 1:55:01 AM] John Tan: Therefore I do not want Jared to talk abt quantum world as if it is same as mansize world...😂😂😂
    [3/2/18, 1:55:14 AM] John Tan: Did u see what I wrote
    [3/2/18, 1:55:14 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Hahaha
    [3/2/18, 1:55:31 AM] John Tan: Many like to anyhow apply
    [3/2/18, 1:55:50 AM] John Tan: As long as it fits ones view
    [3/2/18, 1:56:26 AM] John Tan: I love theoretical physics as I said but hv u seen me talking
    [3/2/18, 1:57:04 AM] John Tan: Y must we forceful link the two when scientists themselves still deny them
    [3/2/18, 1:57:46 AM] John Tan: It maybe true but from the perspective of spiritual practice, it is
    [15/1/18, 4:50:36 AM] John Tan: Thanks Jared for the explanations and detailed replies. 4 points:
    Imo concentration will make dissolution of subject-object a state that has entry or exit (though important), whereas wisdom will pierce through the illusory division of subject-object dichotomy and see clearly that all along the division is a proliferated fabrication of one’s habitual tendency, the division never truly existed.
    Second is the idea of a ground states of consciousness u mentioned, it will end up the same issue of characteristics that need to be emptied in prasangika, in a sense may have the trace u pointed out to André.
    Third, you started pointing about the “trace” of reification of something undergoing change is untenable, there is only change, no changing thing which I think is important. As u said:
    "the gaps are not inherent nothingness. The gaps are just the mind moving on to the next image. When the mind moves to the next image, that aspect of the phenomenon ceases with that mind. That phenomenon has no existence apart from that mind which arose with it." -- This is good but why the need to involve quantum mechanic...haha
    Imo understanding “duality” and “reification” are key and may be good to investigate or contemplate any predictable relationship between “subject-object duality” and “reification”? What is the effect on experience when the tendencies to reify and “dualify” dissolve?
    In Buddhist psychology, cognition is perception + conceptualization. Perception is direct and unmediated in contrast to conceptualization. However both mode of cognition are considered mistaken in prasangika and if both mode of cognition are considered mistaken, is there a way out (out of duality and reification)?
    Lastly, u must be a lover of theoretical physic. I m not against science, in fact, I am a lover of theoretical physics and mathematics. We know that the laws governing the world of the very small (quantum world), the very fast (speed of light), the world of the massively big (macro universe) do not obey the same sets of physical laws as the man-size world. The need to integrate the quantum laws, the newton laws and general relatively gave rise to string and we hope that string theory can be THE theory of everything but sad to say, till today it still remain extremely speculative and still not testable though there are enough hypes to keep it around. Furthermore there r 5 different sets of string theories, which theory explains the universe we r in?
    Therefore I not sure whether it is wise or advisable or even relevant to apply such theories into the spiritual practices. For example ur premise and conclusion of “changing and unchanging” are mutually exclusive may also not stand in the quantum world as the direction of time need not b just one way. "Before" can happen after "after". Before "A" moves, it has already arrived.
    Got to go and once again, thks for the effort and time taken to explain.
    [15/1/18, 4:51:33 AM] John Tan: Probably my longest
    [15/1/18, 7:39:11 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Lol nice..
    [15/1/18, 8:53:29 AM] John Tan: Science is important but kept bringing it into spiritual practice is missing the point. Spiritual practice is implicitly intimate and can be authenticated from moment to moment like the taste of sugar.
  • Soh Wei Yu
    [27/4/16, 10:13:35 AM] Soh Wei Yu: There is a lesson to be taken away from what he says, if anyone cares. It has to do with how we reflect on our experiences, trying to make sense of them. There is a fundamental cognitive error in what Jackson Peterson does, and many others do, when they try to exemplify some spiritual experience in terms of scientific theories. Philosophers call it a "category error." (And some of you may sigh about it being philosophy, but there is an excellent text on emptiness teachings by a very respected Kagyu lama, where he uses that exact expression to explain something about the erroneous ways we think about emptiness. I'd be happy to share a quote from it.) The gist of a category error is when we apply theories, or conceptual ideas, from one cognitive context, or category, to another, like physics to spirituality.
    So,for example, it is ok to talk about how sometimes a photon acts like a particle and sometimes like a wave, because that is perceived by humans (even if it is with the aid of technology), but it is totally incorrect to start talking about how this proves something about spiritual ideas because, "look! a photon is both a particle and a wave!" That is a physical theory to explain what is observed about how photons act, it's not there in what is being observed. (And besides, there is no such thing as "particles" anyway, that's just how physicists talk...)
    Here's a more commonplace example: when your grade school teacher gave you and all your classmates some iron filings and a magnet and told you to put the iron filings on a sheet of paper and then move the magnet around underneath the paper and told you what you were looking at was a "magnetic field," that was a category error. What you were looking at were iron filings moving around a sheet of paper. The theory is that the magnet creates a "magnetic field" and the iron filings are attracted by it. And although it is probably true, going from there to saying that the "Total Wisdom Field" (does he have that trademarked?) is electro-magnetic, that is just complete and utter nonsense--not in the sense that it is unacceptable for some reason, but that it is just empty of all meaning. It doesn't really make that big a difference when you're a kid learning about magnetism, but when Jackson starts saying we manifest a 3D holographic mandala as a world projection... 🙄
    - James corrigan
    [27/4/16, 10:13:37 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Good point lol
    [27/4/16, 10:14:50 AM] John Tan: Yes good point
  • Soh Wei Yu
    [4/1/16, 11:26:27 PM] John Tan: Yes don't link
    [4/1/16, 11:27:43 PM] John Tan: So much rubbish these days and quantum physicists having been telling these ppl stop all their nonsense.
    [4/1/16, 11:27:58 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic.. ya
    [4/1/16, 11:28:47 PM] John Tan: Just focus on our practice...learn about our biology and circulation least it is of very tangible benefits to us and our energy practice.
    [4/1/16, 11:29:15 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
    [4/1/16, 11:29:54 PM] John Tan: Learn abt nutrients, respiratory system, circulatory system, excretory system and see how it can help our energy practices with modern knowledge and test it out...
    [4/1/16, 11:30:07 PM] John Tan: The benefits are very tangible
    [4/1/16, 11:30:37 PM] John Tan: So it is not like talking nonsense whole day and gain nothing
    [4/1/16, 11:31:52 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
    [4/1/16, 11:32:13 PM] John Tan: Learn concentration, visualisation, expand awareness and clarity...learn breathe control, stretches and improve body circulation...ur awareness will b expand...
    [4/1/16, 11:34:38 PM] John Tan: Focus on awareness and emptiness till we can open unreservedly open ourselves without is short ... Be genuine in our practice...u don't want to wait till last min and regret ... At least u try to understand ur purpose here.
    [4/1/16, 11:35:40 PM] John Tan: If u think that life is just abt this life then u can waste all ur time on nonsense and ego gratification ...
    [4/1/16, 11:36:09 PM] John Tan: Otherwise be genuine and sincere.
    [4/1/16, 11:37:33 PM] John Tan: I just let science do their part and I do my there a need to match them up with our nonsense?
    [4/1/16, 11:37:48 PM] John Tan: Can't understand
    [4/1/16, 11:37:51 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
    [4/1/16, 11:38:53 PM] John Tan: Can u feel ur own blockages?
    [4/1/16, 11:39:47 PM] John Tan: It is within u ... Don't u want to b healthier and more clarity, focus and concentrated?
    [4/1/16, 11:40:50 PM] John Tan: Rather kept talking abt something that sounds good but r just nonsense. Time wasted and mislead both ourselves and others.
    [4/1/16, 11:42:01 PM] John Tan: If science tell u that there is non-local phenomena, it breaks ur blinding spot and allows us to break-through
    [4/1/16, 11:43:51 PM] John Tan: But we do not hv to forcefully explain this and that to fit into Buddhism unless u r fully equipped with scientific knowledge.
    [4/1/16, 11:44:03 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
    [5/1/16, 11:05:49 AM] John Tan: Actually "physicality" and "externality" can b deconstructed by deconstructing objects/phenomena. By kept investigating the notion of "inherent-ness".
  • Soh Wei Yu
    [7/12/15, 10:14:09 PM] John Tan: Btw unlike others, I see modern science and medicine as very important in complementing our understanding of our nature.
    [7/12/15, 10:14:53 PM] John Tan: Like our human system, excretory system, respiratory system, digestive system...etc
    [7/12/15, 10:15:16 PM] John Tan: Not just energy system and discard the rest
    [7/12/15, 10:17:16 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
    [7/12/15, 10:17:28 PM] John Tan: In fact I m not into chakras system but just the nature of mind and phenomena and see how it fits into understanding of our modern understanding of our body systems despite being conventional.
    [7/12/15, 10:29:02 PM] John Tan: When I look at u, ur body is so tight and Heaty...ur 排泄系统 is no good...
    [7/12/15, 10:30:03 PM] John Tan: Lack water, lack sleep, lack exercises ... Ur awareness is ok for now but when u get old u will face lots of issues.
    [7/12/15, 10:32:17 PM] John Tan: Even if u din do yoga or what, u still can hv a healthy body.
    [7/12/15, 10:35:12 PM] Soh Wei Yu: I was having constipation that few days now ok already lol. Suspect it's the antibiotics I took for wisdom tooth
    [7/12/15, 10:37:08 PM] Soh Wei Yu: How u know "When I look at u, ur body is so tight and Heaty...ur 排泄系统 is no good..."
    [7/12/15, 10:37:17 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Especially the "Heaty...ur 排泄系统" lol
  • Soh Wei Yu
    [4/11/17, 11:52:48 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Which sets of yoga, the video u sent?
    [4/11/17, 11:52:59 PM] John Tan: No not suitable for her
    [4/11/17, 11:53:13 PM] John Tan: Coz she can do back bend
    [4/11/17, 11:54:20 PM] John Tan: But maybe rest her body on the edge of the bed and do back bend and relax...
    [4/11/17, 11:55:11 PM] John Tan: Have a sincere forgiving mind is important as negative patterns of external or internal patterns of energies r affecting her
    [4/11/17, 11:56:37 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
    [4/11/17, 11:57:49 PM] John Tan: If she is rooted in science, then just tell her to detox her liver, kidney, lungs, blood, lymphatic system...
    [4/11/17, 11:58:01 PM] John Tan: It is the same
    [4/11/17, 11:59:37 PM] John Tan: Her case even noise will disturb her and make her frustrated and irritate her a lot.
  • Soh Wei Yu
    [20/1/18, 4:53:21 PM] John Tan: However his expressions still very much mmk. Does not hv the flare of Zen unmediated directness and dogen total exertion.
    [20/1/18, 4:57:34 PM] John Tan: And though his knowledge of freedom of extremes is there, still wants to find characteristic of like using quantum mechanics to establish reality is so and so..
    [20/1/18, 4:57:56 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
    [20/1/18, 4:58:38 PM] John Tan: That is y i try to defray him from doing that.
    [20/1/18, 4:59:13 PM] John Tan: Science is important but no need to mix with spirituality
    [20/1/18, 5:01:13 PM] John Tan: Do u know y reification is itself the grasping?
  • Soh Wei Yu
    [2/3/19, 10:46:04 PM] John Tan: That limits him
    [2/3/19, 10:46:50 PM] John Tan: Evidence base limits one's understanding in spirituality
    [2/3/19, 10:47:09 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
    [2/3/19, 10:47:33 PM] John Tan: If everything needs evidence then there is no progress
    [2/3/19, 10:48:02 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
    [2/3/19, 10:49:04 PM] John Tan: We cannot rely too much on magical wishing thinking but denying it is equally ignorant.
    [2/3/19, 10:49:49 PM] John Tan: There is nothing in science now that is evident few thousand years ago
    [2/3/19, 11:03:52 PM] Soh Wei Yu: oic..
    [2/3/19, 11:28:08 PM] Soh Wei Yu: what is the wrong and right way of believing?
    [2/3/19, 11:31:25 PM] John Tan: Right way of believing is like based on the understanding of conditionality, emptiness and experience of empty clarity, we can Intuit what is possible.
    [2/3/19, 11:32:13 PM] John Tan: We don't need a holographic virtual image to appear right in front to believe it's possibility
    [2/3/19, 11:32:18 PM] John Tan: 🤣
  • Soh Wei Yu
    [11/7/20, 1:55:55 PM] John Tan: Mathematics and physics r extremely beautiful creation of the human mind esp mathematics is said to be the language of reality. So don't neglect it.
    [14/5/18, 10:00:29 AM] John Tan: This is a disease rather than wisdom
    [14/5/18, 10:01:44 AM] John Tan: What "don't know" points to is "non-conceptual" functioning.
    [14/5/18, 10:03:30 AM] John Tan: Lack of investigation and stable insights we will not be able to distinguish stable insights of non-conceptual functioning from "conceptual releasing".
    [14/5/18, 10:04:20 AM] John Tan: Originally I wanted to tell tan jui Hong but dun want to talk too much.
    [14/5/18, 10:05:11 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
    [14/5/18, 10:05:35 AM] Soh Wei Yu: I think u shld tell jui.. anyway jui has realised anatta I think might be into total exertion but not sure
    [14/5/18, 10:06:15 AM] John Tan: Next time
    [14/5/18, 10:06:21 AM] John Tan: Is he Singaporean
    [14/5/18, 10:09:06 AM] John Tan: Freeing from reified constructs is a whole new world of practice. That is "don't know mind" starts from there.
    [14/5/18, 10:14:26 AM] Soh Wei Yu: U mean jui?
    [14/5/18, 10:14:31 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Ya jui is singaporean, u met before
    [14/5/18, 10:14:37 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
    [14/5/18, 10:14:37 AM] John Tan: Yes
    [14/5/18, 10:14:40 AM] John Tan: Ic
    [14/5/18, 10:23:21 AM] John Tan: Also understanding reified constructs and experiencing reified constructs in oneself is the most crucial aspect.
    [14/5/18, 10:24:31 AM] John Tan: That is the first part of an anatta is key to understanding grasping.
    [14/5/18, 10:25:25 AM] John Tan: Only when we understand constructs and reification, can we understand grasping.
    [14/5/18, 10:27:23 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
    [14/5/18, 10:27:49 AM] John Tan: So understanding mental constructs r very imp
    [14/5/18, 10:28:11 AM] John Tan: That includes the energy and mind-body reactions
    [14/5/18, 10:32:53 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
    ‎[14/5/18, 10:46:32 AM] Soh Wei Yu: ‎image omitted
    [14/5/18, 10:46:43 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Overemphasize non conceptual I think
    [14/5/18, 10:48:17 AM] John Tan: That is lack of insight and investigation
    [14/5/18, 10:49:16 AM] John Tan: Means due to lack of working with conceptual mind, the "reasons" and the "way" isn't appropriately expressed
    [14/5/18, 10:49:33 AM] John Tan: There is the beauty of mathematics
    [14/5/18, 10:49:59 AM] John Tan: Like calculus to understand complex movement and rate of change
    [14/5/18, 10:51:03 AM] John Tan: There is glendin that can express total exertion and anatta properly.
    [14/5/18, 10:51:52 AM] John Tan: There r energies, prana, awareness teachings of functionality not due to "conceptualities"
    [14/5/18, 10:54:06 AM] John Tan: What just "don't know mind". By doing that, he has caused confusion in himself and others due to lack of investigation. The way of non-conceptual function is not to be solved by mind.
    [14/5/18, 11:13:12 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic.. not to be solved by the mind but by what way?
    [14/5/18, 11:15:23 AM] John Tan: By the "don't know mind" they r talking
    [14/5/18, 11:15:37 AM] John Tan: The problem is they do not know
    [14/5/18, 11:15:39 AM] John Tan: Lol
    [14/5/18, 11:15:53 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Lol
    [23/4/16, 4:47:11 PM] John Tan: Like this moment, my body is recovering....this moment...from transition ... From a sick precious and so different. I can't breathe with my lungs, I breathe with my stomach...the feeling is different from the time I m healthy....what an invaluable lesson...
    [23/4/16, 5:10:47 PM] John Tan: When watching Ahmed hulusi explain abt quantum, I realised he entered into mind body dropped contemplating data and consciousness. I had the same insight and experiences when contemplatating mathematics where u look deeper and deeper, u see nothing is left...only patterns of relationships and numbers. We u look deeper and deeper, physical and nature becomes just "data".
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