Meeting with John Tan and Yin Ling
Shared with Public

Yin Ling

 
Buddha says,
If this arise, that arise.
If this cease, that cease.
.
I add- because of dependency, hence there is no this, nor that, to be pinpointed inherently.
It’s empty.
.
John tan says,
If bell, air , ear , consciousness , stick are needed to produce a sound,
Where is the sound?
Where?
We cannot pinpoint it.
.
If you press on the table,
The earth element is hard,
Where is the hardness?
Where?
This arise, that arise,
Lift up ur hand,
This cease, that cease,
Where is the hardness?
In your hand? In the table?
.
He also says,
If A always depend on B, and B always depend on A,
We will not be able to pin down A or B.
A and B is not two, nor one.
It’s empty,
It’s dependent origination!
😁
All the “self” and “thing” we feel are imputations,
They are not there.
Release them. Release till none
.
My short Singapore reflection
Emptiness eating emptiness,
All my own empty clarity 😊

 

Yin Ling

 
I recall a convo with JT.
We were discussing energy imbalance stuff due to meditation I think.
JT : Don’t focus on the A&P
Me: what’s A&P?
Jt : arising and passing. Those that come and go.
Visions, temporary experiences. Focus on insight. Nature of mind. Dependent arising. Emptiness, anatta.
Me: okay.
JT: no use to focus on A&P when one still have Samsaric framework of reality- Dual and inherent. Really no point. Holding on to mind, to awareness, all these is based on Samsaric framework propelled by karma second by second.
If Every minute your reality is karmic, what’s the point focusing on that and say you are above karma haha. Feel the karma. That ignorance is karma.
Me: how do you practice now?
Jt: I sit, keep my back straight, then recall the critical insights(anatta, dependent arising, emptiness ), then authenticate the sensations (sounds touch) with these insights, after awhile I rest in non dual. One hour plus before I go to work.
Me: thank you.
Jt: also the chanting, reading dharma, visualisation, also skillful means you need that as well. You want to dharma to go deep. People like Mipham, Tsongkhapa wrote their text in weeks. They are so deep in the dharma and the dharma so deep inside them. That’s what we aim to be. Practice hard.


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July 2023 Compilation of Venerable Hui Lu's Writings

John Tan commented: Very good 👍
HL's expressions can integrate dependent arising, emptiness and empty clarity into a single taste.  However the 开示录2, second and third line can be refined imo.

故舉⼀海，即印百川 this part is good.
百川會歸⼤海者，華嚴三昧也 this part should be refined.

舉⼀海，印百川。
舉⼀川，印大海。
超脱离歸，華嚴三昧也

 When we talk about dependent arising, we must not fall into entrance and exit, coming and going.

 And 舉 here means entire body-mind exertion.

 

 Note: see ChatGPT translation at the bottom

Compilation of recent writings by Venerable Hui Lu:

慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄1
華嚴經義海百門重點有二：
一、守住緣起的因果法則。
二、守住一心真如的本體法界。
緣起是站在因緣果的角度而立，
性空是站在第一義諦大空一心真如，
人空、法空、空空而立的。
在緣起法裡面不能壞因果，
所作所為不能違背良心，
不能違背因果。
在性空的角度來講，
所作所為不能違背一真。
你有佛性，真心本如，
不可以違背。
能所不斷就違背一真，
違背你的本性。
妄念不斷，妄執不斷，妄分別不斷，
就違背了你的一真，
因為你也是佛。
緣起就是性空，
性空正是緣起，
華嚴經把它擴大到法界，
這緣起，因緣果的建立是在無自性，
正是一心真如擴大，
變成整個法界都無自性。
所以守住兩個角度，
其實是一，是不二。
守住因果法則，
做事不能昧著良心、良知，
講話也不能昧著良知、良心，
諸位，別人不知道你的虛偽，
但是你正在欺騙你的真如自性，
你自己很清楚。
慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄2
我們所有語言文字都是叫你看開一點，。
要看破，同時懂得放下。
把佛法的智慧運用在緣起裡面，
緣起正是一真，一真正是緣起，
那麼，你今生今世坐在台下的生命，
就有真實的意義。
要知曉萬法其實只是鏡中之像，
不勞你如此的妄執妄分別，
不勞你如此的說謊，
也不必要對這個現起的假相太過住著。
我們要了解，
一切法都是在破除煩惱障和所知障，
這兩個障礙。
煩惱少一點了，
學佛就成功。
所知障少一點了，
你學佛就慢慢地走向成功。
而不是聽一聽，裝沒事，
好像懂，其實是原地打轉，
不身體力行的，
跟不懂是沒什麼兩樣的。
慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄3
執著就會把生命變成累贅，
就沒有任何的意義。
對得取捨不斷，
對得很痛苦，
縱然你的理由充足，
對得很忿怒，
失去了理性的對，
倒不如回歸到理性、感性平衡，
如如不動的佛陀的境界。
什麼事就保持如如不動，
不取於相，
這個是最高的境界。
生命總要有一個指導，
要用一身真如法界來指導你的身口意，
回歸到一真，
一個真心本如，
這樣漸次第的讓你成就無上正等正覺。
慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄4
修行的重點有兩個：
一、要懂得踩煞車。
你正在起貪念，
要懂得踩煞車。
你正在忿怒，
一定要懂得踩煞車，
再不踩煞車，
那種子就一直變成生死，
起無明，道理也講不通。
二、要化有為無。
知道緣起其實就是性空，
你能夠「無」，
有第一義諦大空，
就有出世間的智慧。
修行的關鍵在化有為無，
現在有爭執，其實無性。
現在有貪婪，其實無自性。
現在暴怒、瞋恨心，
其實無自性。
眾生因為不了解只是緣起，
所以他認為「有」，
有一種東西可以帶走，
到最後只有帶走你的業力。
慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄5
供養是一種喜悅的心。
我們之所以布施，
是為了昇華自己，
並不是說我要獲得到什麼，
這是凡夫的觀念。
我今天之所以布施
是為了昇華我自己，
趣向於無上正等正覺，
所以我施捨。
施捨的重點在捨掉妄執，
捨掉內心裡面的著相，
捨掉無量劫來的無明，
叫作布施。
並不是說我今天布施是為了別人對我好，
這成了一種對價關係，
是商場的交易。
道場是絕對的價值真理，
並不是對價關係。
來三寶地，這個要先弄清楚。
慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄6
什麼是佛法？就是心靈的革命。
佛法是自性上心靈的一種昇華，
所以它是一種內在心靈寧靜的革命。
心不妄執，智慧即現。
慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄7
心淨則國土淨，
心性不空，哪來的淨土？
我指的是究竟的常寂光淨土。
塵性要空，智慧淨土就會現前。
身淨、語淨、意淨，則國土淨。
空去所有妄想、顛倒、執著，
名為見到真正的淨土。
慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄8
所謂四威儀：
行，就是自利行、利他行。
聽經聞法是自利行，
弘法利生是利他行，
自利利他叫作「行」。
住，就是一切法無生，
你心就安住。
若不能體會一切法無生，
你心就安不住。
坐，等同如如不動，
就是空性的意思，
體悟空性名為坐。
臥，就是心入寂滅，
入大寂滅名為臥。
所以，什麼叫作行住坐臥？
行者，自利利他行。
住者，一切法無生。
坐者，萬法皆空。
臥者，入於如來大寂滅的智境。

慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄1
華嚴經義海百門重點有二：
一、守住緣起的因果法則。
二、守住一心真如的本體法界。
緣起是站在因緣果的角度而立，
性空是站在第一義諦大空一心真如，
人空、法空、空空而立的。
在緣起法裡面不能壞因果，
所作所為不能違背良心，
不能違背因果。
在性空的角度來講，
所作所為不能違背一真。
你有佛性，真心本如，
不可以違背。
能所不斷就違背一真，
違背你的本性。
妄念不斷，妄執不斷，妄分別不斷，
就違背了你的一真，
因為你也是佛。
緣起就是性空，
性空正是緣起，
華嚴經把它擴大到法界，
這緣起，因緣果的建立是在無自性，
正是一心真如擴大，
變成整個法界都無自性。
所以守住兩個角度，
其實是一，是不二。
守住因果法則，
做事不能昧著良心、良知，
講話也不能昧著良知、良心，
諸位，別人不知道你的虛偽，
但是你正在欺騙你的真如自性，
你自己很清楚。
慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄2
我們所有語言文字都是叫你看開一點，。
要看破，同時懂得放下。
把佛法的智慧運用在緣起裡面，
緣起正是一真，一真正是緣起，
那麼，你今生今世坐在台下的生命，
就有真實的意義。
要知曉萬法其實只是鏡中之像，
不勞你如此的妄執妄分別，
不勞你如此的說謊，
也不必要對這個現起的假相太過住著。
我們要了解，
一切法都是在破除煩惱障和所知障，
這兩個障礙。
煩惱少一點了，
學佛就成功。
所知障少一點了，
你學佛就慢慢地走向成功。
而不是聽一聽，裝沒事，
好像懂，其實是原地打轉，
不身體力行的，
跟不懂是沒什麼兩樣的。
慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄3
執著就會把生命變成累贅，
就沒有任何的意義。
對得取捨不斷，
對得很痛苦，
縱然你的理由充足，
對得很忿怒，
失去了理性的對，
倒不如回歸到理性、感性平衡，
如如不動的佛陀的境界。
什麼事就保持如如不動，
不取於相，
這個是最高的境界。
生命總要有一個指導，
要用一身真如法界來指導你的身口意，
回歸到一真，
一個真心本如，
這樣漸次第的讓你成就無上正等正覺。
慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄4
修行的重點有兩個：
一、要懂得踩煞車。
你正在起貪念，
要懂得踩煞車。
你正在忿怒，
一定要懂得踩煞車，
再不踩煞車，
那種子就一直變成生死，
起無明，道理也講不通。
二、要化有為無。
知道緣起其實就是性空，
你能夠「無」，
有第一義諦大空，
就有出世間的智慧。
修行的關鍵在化有為無，
現在有爭執，其實無性。
現在有貪婪，其實無自性。
現在暴怒、瞋恨心，
其實無自性。
眾生因為不了解只是緣起，
所以他認為「有」，
有一種東西可以帶走，
到最後只有帶走你的業力。
慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄5
供養是一種喜悅的心。
我們之所以布施，
是為了昇華自己，
並不是說我要獲得到什麼，
這是凡夫的觀念。
我今天之所以布施
是為了昇華我自己，
趣向於無上正等正覺，
所以我施捨。
施捨的重點在捨掉妄執，
捨掉內心裡面的著相，
捨掉無量劫來的無明，
叫作布施。
並不是說我今天布施是為了別人對我好，
這成了一種對價關係，
是商場的交易。
道場是絕對的價值真理，
並不是對價關係。
來三寶地，這個要先弄清楚。
慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄6
什麼是佛法？就是心靈的革命。
佛法是自性上心靈的一種昇華，
所以它是一種內在心靈寧靜的革命。
心不妄執，智慧即現。
慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄7
心淨則國土淨，
心性不空，哪來的淨土？
我指的是究竟的常寂光淨土。
塵性要空，智慧淨土就會現前。
身淨、語淨、意淨，則國土淨。
空去所有妄想、顛倒、執著，
名為見到真正的淨土。
慧律法師2023.7.1開示節錄8
所謂四威儀：
行，就是自利行、利他行。
聽經聞法是自利行，
弘法利生是利他行，
自利利他叫作「行」。
住，就是一切法無生，
你心就安住。
若不能體會一切法無生，
你心就安不住。
坐，等同如如不動，
就是空性的意思，
體悟空性名為坐。
臥，就是心入寂滅，
入大寂滅名為臥。
所以，什麼叫作行住坐臥？
行者，自利利他行。
住者，一切法無生。
坐者，萬法皆空。
臥者，入於如來大寂滅的智境。
 
 
 
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄1
修行沒辦法造假，
你有宿世的無漏善根，速度就快。
你沒有宿世的善根，
修學佛道速度就慢。
你想走弘法的路線，
第一個，你的心靈要放在法界。
因為既然要弘法，
初發心即成等正覺，
心放在法界，
法界並沒有來也沒有去，
也沒有中間，也沒有終點。
初發心等如法界虛空，不增不減。
中間，等如法界，等如虛空，不增不減。
終極點，等如法界虛空，不增不減。
初發心即成等正覺，
等正覺不離初發心。
如果你想走弘法的路線，
必須有大無我、犧牲奉獻，
而且是只有付出，沒有半點希求，
包括名啊利啊，
包括對價的關係統統沒有。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄2
了塵當下無自性，
本來就無生，
一切法本來就空寂一味。
這個「一味」叫做絕待，
並不是比較。
要了解佛陀是證量解脫的聖人，
他是絕待的心性流露，
而沒有辦法用語言，
所以叫做一味。
這個一，在強調它的寂滅。
佛陀的心靈是統一性的、
和諧性的、不增不減性的，
佛陀了悟這世間無一不是因緣法，
既是因緣法，就是空性，
所以佛陀走到任何的時間、空間，
都了悟空無自性，
這個叫做一味。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄3
二乘人為什麼受限於叫做二乘？
因為要發大菩提，
度盡法界緣起的眾生，
他沒有做到緣起的圓滿相，
叫做二乘人。
那麼，大乘就是一個統一性的，
但是不夠圓滿。
唯佛是圓滿。
我們就把見法為實，名為小乘。
見法緣起，名為中乘。
了當下無性，本空寂一味，
名為大乘，姑且這麼說。
法無一二三，
根器自有三乘，
還是根性的問題。
今法是一，
這個「一」不是一，
是因為法法空無自性，
方便說叫做一。
修學佛道的人，
因為根器不同，
方便分成三種根性。
並不是修學佛道的有三種根器，
令這個法變成有三種的差異。
也不是說因為法是一，
令修學佛道就叫做一乘，
不是這個意思。
只是因為眾生根性不同，
自然就分為三乘，
而並不是法有三種，
當知究竟為一，
一乘法其實方便叫做三乘法，
因為令三乘所學的歸一個
究竟空無自性寂滅的，
所以，佛陀的心是寧靜的，
是安詳的。
這個安詳是人類最幸福的一種枕頭。
因為每天睡覺，他都是很幸福，
何以故？
無一物。
三即一乘，就是方便而立三乘，
其實就是一乘。
只是因為隨應根器的不同，
而這個法分為有三。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄4
所有眾生痛苦的因緣，
造業的因緣，
輪迴不息的因緣，
修行障道的因緣，
都在這一句話：
沒有辦法止息能緣慮的分別心。
學佛的人，
關鍵都在一句話，
懂得放下，懂得離一切相，
二六時中沒有攀緣之心，
修行就抓到重點了。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄5
究極無上菩提簡單講，
就是必須在複雜的緣起裡面過日子。
眾生複雜，正是菩提正道。
最惡劣的，正是菩薩之處。
菩薩沒有敵人。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄6
只說萬法皆空，就壞了緣起，
只說萬法皆有，就壞了性空。
所以離空邊、有邊，也不住於中道。
兩邊沒有，就沒有所謂中道，
方乃契入中道。
中道就是無道，
沒有左邊，沒有右邊，
沒有中間。
沒有空，沒有有，沒有中，
叫做中道。
入中道的人，了諸法空無自性。
那麼，空無自性就是我們的真心。
所以，真心就是無性。
無性就是說你了解法無定法，
那麼，就知道沒有東西可以攀緣。
萬法能隨緣過日子。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄7
眾生一定會有紛爭，
只要衝突不要太嚴重，
然後再慢慢從衝突當中去學習和諧，
因為法界本來就是這樣子，
在矛盾當中去完成統一，
那個就是佛陀。
華嚴的思想是絕待，
華嚴講的就是法界緣起，
生活在娑婆世界要了解他是緣起，
縱使對立的世間，
從對立的矛盾當中，
以此為增上緣，
變成佛道的逆增上緣，
正是修行的時候。
什麼人都順著你，
你不能成佛的，
因為沒有逆境可以磨練。
什麼人都逆著你，
沒有人鼓勵，
你才走到半路，
心靈就會枯萎而死。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄8
世界上最好的語言，
最棒的語言，就是態度。
態度至誠和善，
這個就是最棒的語言。
最棒的語言就是不須要語言。
最棒的禮物就是不須要真正的禮物。
也就是你的態度要誠懇，
還有柔和的語言，
堅持不傷人。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄9
一切法無相就是世間的真相。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄10
生命，它是一種觀念，
正確的觀念就有正確的幸福。
今天你坐在這裡，
就是要奠定正確的觀念，
正確的知識，正確的常識，
正確的佛陀的知見。
為什麼？
就是要建立永恆的幸福。
緣起法沒有連接性空，
沒有永恆的幸福。
所有的緣起連接到性空，
永恆的智慧，
這個叫做永遠的幸福。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄11
性空不礙緣起，
能緣不可得，
所緣不可得，
但是不可以壞能所，
了能所無性，
就是佛陀的真心。
所以佛法不是破壞者，
它是順著這個緣起，
你今天不懂得緣起，
你的婚姻一定不幸。
記得，順著因緣去解脫。
而不是因緣已經造成，
卻牢騷抱怨，暴力破壞。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄12
空性具有法界緣起恒沙功德，
講恒沙功德，就是法界緣起，
要不然什麼叫功德？
諸位，實踐叫做功德。
不能只有空談理論，
智慧叫做性空，
我們常常講功不唐捐，就是要實踐啊！
為什麼你坐在這裡叫功不唐捐？
它是正向的緣起。
你今天得聞華嚴智慧的法界緣起，
這個金剛種功不唐捐。
經百千萬劫，它都不會消失，
這叫做無漏的金剛種。
世俗的財產這輩子花一花就過了，
是不是？
為什麼經典裡面講：
諸供養當中，法供養為最？
一切的供養當中，以法的供養功德最大。
一個人在人生失去方向的時候，
有時候一句話，剛好他要的，
不只是救了他一命，
而是救了他全家。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄13
所有的方便如果不入於真實，
就沒有意義。
所有的緣起不入於性空，
就沒有意義。
煮飯沒有性空的道理，
煮飯只是結個緣。
參加法會沒有性空的真理，
只能說拜拜佛運動也不錯，
種種善根。
性空，是大智的種子啊！
拜佛是為了開智慧，
又不是參加奧運。
對不對？
性空才能入於實際理趣。
在佛門裡面要得到種種的真實，
真實就是大智的性空。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄14
見塵相，著，就是邪見，
著相就是邪見。
見塵空，就是正見。
正見絕對也沒有立一個正，
見塵相住著，就是邪。
見塵相性空，就是正。
見塵相空，唯一個真心。
所以邪正就是著與不住著，
正見就是無見，
沒有能見，沒有所見，
這裡有四著重點：
沒有能見，沒有所見，
不落入有見，不落入無見，
名為正見。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄15
千萬不要誤認為心外有法，
心外有法就有攀緣，就有愛恨之心，
我們現在存活的人生，從你出生到今天，
用你的心靈記憶寫你自己精彩的人生，
記憶變成你的人生。
你以前的攀緣，看不破的，現在也是記憶。
記憶就是影像，影像就變成你心中的歷史的一頁。
所以我們把心中的影子，心中的語言文字、陰影，
變成我們一輩子的依靠。
剛好依靠錯誤，所以我們因為心外有法而顯這個愛恨。
其實，心外無法，愛恨不可得，沒有任何的意義。
但是問題來了，這個緣起不好過，
沒有這個緣起，你就沒有辦法今天坐在這個地方，
所以你有今天緣起，你才有明天的希望啊！
所以，之所以修行難，就難在這個地方。
你要除業報，記得，
心外無法，不要去攀緣，平淡地過日子。
怎麼樣能夠除業報呢？
從今日起，攀緣的心放下，業報即除。
簡單講，本來無一物，何處惹塵埃？
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄16
所謂最難放下的，是放下貪瞋癡，放下愛恨，
不是叫你放下如來的大智慧，
不是叫你放下勝善知識，
不是這個意思。
放掉惡，留有聖潔的善。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄17
人很可怕的，為了那一點死要面子，
死要虛偽的尊嚴，寧可不要佛陀的正見真理。
眾生對於錯誤為什麼一直堅持？
就是臉拉不下來， 這是最大問題。
所以死要面子的人是真理的送終者，
他可以把真理掩蓋，埋在棺材裡面，
但是，他就是要面子，就是死在炫耀，
為了得到虛偽的掌聲和榮耀，
而不知道自己負的因果有多大，
斷眾生的法身慧命，你扛不起的。
奉勸所有的法師、居士，要說法，行！
你要依據如來的正見。
要依據祖師的知見。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄18
萬法都是一真法界，
沒有什麼複雜的。
把複雜的變成一真心，
就叫做學佛。
把一個真心變得很複雜，
爭執不斷，那個叫凡夫。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄19
如果還沒有像佛一樣破除能所，
對事情的看法就很重要。
你的看法是負面的，你就痛苦不堪。
你的看法是健康的，你的心靈就快樂。
凡事負面思考，你的心就有陰影。
聽經聞法，擁有健康的心靈，
不會著於陰影，
會知道逆增上緣的可貴，也懂得謙卑，
了解別人的讚歎不代表自己的成就，
哇！那不得了，
所以你還沒有到佛的境界，先要有健康的看法。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄20
真心叫做頭，
知見叫做頭上安頭。
起有見，起無見，
都是頭上安頭，都是心垢，
那就見不到如來的真心。
是故如來的正見是清淨的，
清淨什麼意思？
是無一物。
只要頭上安頭，見就是垢。
你有種種的看法就是心垢。
落入有見，心垢；
落入無見，心垢；
落入亦有亦無見，心垢；
落入非有非無見，心垢；
落入凡夫見，心垢；
落入聖人見，心垢。
眾生因為取相的妄見，
不知道萬法無能所，
執塵有實體可見，
就是妄見。
諸位，你看出去的東西，
沒有一樣是你的。
你看出去的東西，
沒有一樣是真的。
記得，隨緣過日，
不要忘記自己的時空，
你扮演什麼角色，
該扛起的責任，
就必須負責到底，
你不能說凡所有相皆是虛妄，
就變成一種錯誤的消極。
不！佛法是緣起的積極，
他是理性的主人，
不是感性的奴隸。
師父，你怎會主動？
為什麼為大家說法？
因為這是我生命當中真理的全部啊！
我為法師而活著，榮耀；
我為在家居士而活著，榮耀；
我為無量無邊眾生法身慧命而活，榮耀。
這不須要人家教，對不對？
我們也不須要有對價關係，是不是？
心靈的喜悅跟安詳，
是我們真如自性最佳的禮物。
自己賞給自己最佳的禮物，就是喜悅。
自己賞給自己最佳的禮物，就是安詳。
慧律法師2023.7.22開示節錄21
學佛，一句話：
化有為無，就成阿耨多羅三藐三菩提。
學三藏十二部經典，
不能離開這句關鍵的話，
把有化為無，
把紛爭化為清涼，
不要對命運有所爭吵。
 
 
 
The ChatGPT translation is far from perfect but can give an idea of what the above is pointing at: 

ChatGPT
!

The excerpts from Master Hui Lu's teachings on July 1, 2023, are profound and encompass various aspects of Buddhist philosophy. Here is a translation:

  1. The Avatamsaka Sutra (Flower Garland Sutra) has two key points: First, uphold the principle of dependent origination and causality. Second, sustain the fundamental Dharmadhatu of One Mind Suchness true nature of the mind.

  2. Dependent origination is understood from the perspective of cause, condition, and effect, whereas emptiness is viewed from the ultimate truth of the vast emptiness of the true nature of mind, encompassing the emptiness of people, phenomena, and emptiness itself.

  3. In the realm of dependent origination, one must not violate the law of causality, act against one's conscience, or contravene the principles of cause and effect.

  4. From the perspective of emptiness, actions must not contravene the ultimate truth. The Buddha nature and true mind should not be betrayed. Not cutting off subject and object is to violate One True [Suchness], violating your true nature.

  5. Dependent origination is essentially emptiness, and emptiness is indeed dependent origination. The Avatamsaka Sutra expands this to the realm of Dharma (law or principle), where the establishment of cause, condition, and effect is inherently without self-nature, reflecting the expansion of the true mind into the entire realm of Dharma without self-nature.

  6. Therefore, maintaining both perspectives is essentially maintaining unity, not duality. Upholding the law of causality involves acting and speaking without deceiving one's conscience and wisdom. Others may not know your deceit, but you are deceiving your true nature, which you are well aware of.

  7. All language and text are meant to enlighten us to see through the illusions and understand the importance of letting go. Applying the wisdom of Buddhism in the context of dependent origination, where dependent origination is the ultimate truth and vice versa, gives real meaning to our lives.

  8. It is crucial to understand that all phenomena aim to eliminate the obstacles of afflictions and ignorance (Soh: afflictive and knowledge obscurations, see https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Two_obscurations). Reducing these obstacles leads to successful Buddhist practice. Merely listening without genuine practice is no different from not understanding at all.

  9. Attachment turns life into a burden, devoid of meaning. Being constantly attached to gains and losses, suffering, and anger devoid of rationality is inferior to returning to a state of rational, emotional balance, and the unmovable state of the Buddha. Maintaining an unmovable state without attachment to appearances is the highest state.

  10. Life requires guidance. One should use the true nature of the Dharma realm to guide one's body, speech, and mind, returning to the ultimate truth and the true mind. This gradual process leads to supreme enlightenment.

  11. The essence of practice involves two key points: First, knowing when to apply the brakes when experiencing greed or anger. Failure to do so turns these seeds into endless cycles of ignorance and unreason. Second, transforming existence into non-existence. Understanding that dependent origination is essentially emptiness, and that current disputes, greed, and anger have no self-nature, is crucial. Beings, not understanding this, believe in the existence of things that can only lead to the carrying of karma.

  12. Offering is an act of joy. The purpose of giving is self-transcendence, not for gaining something in return, which is a worldly view. The focus of giving is to relinquish false attachments, inner clinging, and the ignorance of countless eons. It is not about expecting others to treat you well in return, which would reduce it to a transactional relationship. The Dharma place represents absolute truth, not a transactional relationship.

  13. What is Buddhism? It is a revolution of the mind, a sublimation of one's intrinsic nature, leading to inner peace and wisdom. When the mind is free from delusions, wisdom manifests.

  14. If the mind is pure, the land will be pure. The ultimate Pure Land of Constant Peace and Light can only manifest when the mind is free from dust-like defilements. When the body, speech, and mind are pure, the Pure Land manifests. Freeing oneself from all delusions and attachments reveals the true Pure Land.

  15. The four dignities of a practitioner are: Walking, which includes actions for self-benefit and benefiting others. Listening to the teachings benefits oneself, while propagating the teachings benefits others. Dwelling is to realize the non-arising of all phenomena, allowing the mind to rest in peace. Sitting is equivalent to unmovability and understanding emptiness. Lying down represents entering into the tranquility of cessation.

  16. In the context of practicing the Dharma, one cannot fake progress. If one has virtuous roots from past lives, progress in learning the Buddha's way is faster. Without these roots, progress is slower. To follow the path of propagating the Dharma, one must place their mind in the realm of Dharma, which neither comes nor goes and has no beginning or end. The initial aspiration for enlightenment is equal to the infinite realm of Dharma. This aspiration never departs from enlightenment. To propagate the Dharma, one must have a selfless attitude, willing to sacrifice without expecting anything in return, including fame or material benefits.

  17. Understanding the emptiness of all phenomena right now, as they inherently lack self-nature and are inherently empty and tranquil, is crucial. This 'one taste' or uniformity emphasizes the cessation and unification of the Buddha's mind, which understands all phenomena as dependent and therefore empty. The Buddha's realization that all phenomena lack inherent nature applies to all times and spaces.

  18. Why are followers of the two vehicles limited? It's because they have not fully realized the dependent origination of all beings in the Dharma realm. The Mahayana is unified but not fully complete; only the Buddha is complete. We regard seeing phenomena as real as the lesser vehicle, understanding phenomena as dependent origination as the middle vehicle, and realizing the inherent emptiness and tranquility of phenomena as the greater vehicle. Though Dharma is one, beings have different capacities, leading to the three vehicles. However, these capacities do not change the oneness of the Dharma.

  19. All suffering, the creation of karma, the endless cycle of reincarnation, and obstacles in practice stem from the inability to stop the discriminating mind. The key to Buddhist practice is to let go and detach from all appearances, maintaining a non-attached mind at all times.

  20. Ultimate enlightenment, in essence, requires living amidst the complexities of dependent origination. Complexity signifies the true path of enlightenment. The worst situations are where Bodhisattvas thrive, as they have no enemies.

  21. Emphasizing only the emptiness of all phenomena destroys the principle of dependent origination, while focusing solely on their existence negates their emptiness. Thus, avoiding both extremes and not dwelling in the middle way is the key to entering the true middle way, which is beyond concepts of emptiness, existence, and even the middle way itself. Understanding the emptiness of all phenomena reveals our true mind, which is beyond characteristics and concepts.

  22. Conflicts among beings are inevitable. Learning to harmonize from these conflicts, as the Dharma realm inherently involves contradictions, is the essence of the Buddha's teachings. The Avatamsaka Sutra's concept of absolute equality emphasizes understanding the world as dependent origination. Life in this world, despite its contradictions, provides opportunities for spiritual growth. Those who face only agreement cannot attain Buddhahood, as adversity is necessary for spiritual development. Those constantly opposed without support may find their spirit withering away.

  23. The most powerful language in the world is attitude. A sincere and kind attitude is the best form of communication, surpassing the need for words. The best gifts are those that do not require physical presents but the sincerity and gentleness of one's attitude, avoiding harm to others.

  24. The ultimate truth of the world is that all phenomena lack inherent characteristics. This understanding is key to recognizing the true nature of reality.

  25. Life is a concept, and correct concepts lead to genuine happiness. Establishing correct concepts, knowledge, common sense, and insights of the Buddha is essential for lasting happiness. Connecting dependent origination with emptiness brings eternal wisdom and happiness.

  26. Emptiness does not hinder dependent origination. While phenomena and their objects of perception are unattainable, one should not destroy the relationship between subject and object. Realizing that subject and object has no [inherent] nature is the true mind of the Buddha. Buddhism is not about destruction but about following dependent origination. Without understanding this, relationships and marriages are doomed to fail. Remember, liberation comes from following causality, not from resentment and destruction when things go wrong.

  27. Emptiness encompasses the countless virtues of the Dharma realm. Practicing these virtues, rather than mere theoretical discussion, is essential. Being present in this moment, hearing the wisdom of the Avatamsaka Sutra, is like planting an indestructible seed that will not perish over countless eons. Worldly possessions are transient, but the teachings of the Dharma are the greatest form of offering. Sometimes, a single word can save not just one life but an entire family.

  28. If expedient means do not lead to truth, they are meaningless. All phenomena, if not understood in the context of emptiness, are pointless. Cooking rice or attending religious ceremonies without understanding emptiness are mere activities. Emptiness is the seed of great wisdom. Understanding and practicing the Dharma leads to the realization of ultimate truth and wisdom.

    Excerpt 14: "Seeing the form of dust and attaching, that is heretical view, Attaching to form is heretical view. Seeing the emptiness of dust, that is right view. Right view does not establish a 'right' at all, Dwelling in the form of dust is heresy. Seeing the nature of dust's form as emptiness, that is right. Seeing the emptiness of dust's form, is the only true mind. Therefore, right and wrong are about attaching and not dwelling, Right view is no view, There is no seer, nothing seen, Here are four emphases: No seer, nothing seen, Not falling into having view, not falling into not having view, This is called right view."

    Excerpt 15: "Do not mistakenly think there is Dharma outside the mind, If there is Dharma outside the mind, there are attachments, there are emotions of love and hate, Our current living life, from your birth to today, Write your splendid life with the memory of your mind, Memory becomes your life. Your previous attachments, now not seen through, are also memories. Memory is imagery, imagery becomes a page in the history of your heart. Thus, we take the shadows in our heart, the words and shadows, And make them the reliance of our lifetime. Just relying on the wrong, thus we manifest love and hate because of external Dharma. In fact, there is no Dharma outside the mind, love and hate are unattainable, without any meaning. But the problem comes, this conditioned genesis is hard to pass, Without this conditioned genesis, you wouldn't be able to sit here today, So you have today's conditioned genesis, then you have hope for tomorrow! Therefore, the reason why cultivation is difficult, is difficult in this place. You want to remove karmic retribution, remember, There is no Dharma outside the mind, do not attach, live your days plainly. How can you remove your karmic retribution? From today onwards, put down the heart of attachment, karmic retribution will be removed. Simply put, originally there was not one thing, where can dust alight?"

    Excerpt 16: "What is called the hardest to put down, is to put down greed, anger, and ignorance, to put down love and hate, It's not telling you to put down the great wisdom of the Tathagata, It's not telling you to put down the knowledge of virtuous mentors, It's not this meaning. Discard evil, retain the holy good."

    Excerpt 17: "People are very scary, for that bit of dying for face, Dying for false dignity, rather not wanting the Buddha's right view truth. Why do sentient beings persist in error? It's because the face can't come down, this is the biggest problem. Therefore, those who die for face are the enders of truth, He can cover the truth, bury it in the coffin, But, he just wants face, just dies in showing off, For the sake of obtaining false applause and glory, And doesn't know the magnitude of the causality he bears, Severing the Dharmakaya wisdom life of sentient beings, you can't bear it. I advise all Dharma masters, lay practitioners, to speak Dharma, go! You should according to the Tathagata's right view. According to the Ancestors' knowledge."

    Excerpt 18: "All Dharma is one true Dharma realm, Nothing is complicated. Turn the complicated into one true mind, That is called learning Buddhism. Turn one true mind into very complicated, Constant disputes, that is called a mundane person."

    Excerpt 19: "If you have not yet broken through like the Buddha, the able and the so, Your view of things is very important. Your view is negative, then you are in unbearable pain. Your view is healthy, then your mind is happy. Everything negative thinking, your heart has a shadow. Hear the sutras, hear the Dharma, have a healthy mind, Will not attach to shadows, Will know the value of adverse increasing conditions, also understand humility, Understand others' praise does not represent your achievement, Wow! That's incredible, So you have not yet reached the Buddha's realm, first have a healthy view."

    Excerpt 20: "The true mind is called the head, Knowledge is called adding a head on top of the head. Arising having view, arising not having view, Both are adding a head on top of the head, both are mind impurities, Then cannot see the Tathagata's true mind. Thus the Tathagata's right view is pure, What does pure mean? It is without one thing. As long as adding a head on top of the head, the view is impurity. You have various views, that is mind impurity. Fall into having view, mind impurity; Fall into not having view, mind impurity; Fall into both having and not having view, mind impurity; Fall into neither having nor not having view, mind impurity; Fall into mundane view, mind impurity; Fall into holy view, mind impurity. Sentient beings due to grasping form's delusion view, Do not know all Dharma has no able and so, Clinging to dust as having real substance to see, That is delusion view. Ladies and gentlemen, the things you see out there, Not one thing is yours. The things you see out there, Not one thing is real. Remember, pass your days according to conditions, Do not forget your own time and space, The role you play, The responsibility you should bear, You must be responsible to the end, You cannot say all forms are false, Then become a kind of mistaken negative. No! Buddhism is conditioned genesis's positive, He is the master of rationality, Not the slave of sensibility. Master, how can you be proactive? Why speak Dharma for everyone? Because this is the entirety of truth in my life! I live for the sake of Dharma masters, glory; I live for the sake of lay practitioners, glory; I live for the sake of the Dharmakaya wisdom life of boundless sentient beings, glory. This does not need others to teach, right? We also do not need to have a transactional relationship, right? The joy and peace of mind, Are the best gifts of our Tathagata self-nature. Give yourself the best gift, which is joy. Give yourself the best gift, which is peace."

    Excerpt 21: "Learning Buddhism, in one sentence: Transforming existence into non-existence, then achieve Anuttarā Samyaksaṃbodhi. Study the Tripitaka and twelve divisions of scriptures, Cannot depart from this key sentence, Transform the existence into non-existence, Transform disputes into coolness, Do not argue with fate."

 
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John Astin, Nondual vs Anatta, Flow

 

    David's Post

    David Mcdonald

    Top contributor
     Snoedptsorf2741l2hm10if028iaca2766m5aa6u1m0hi71l0f4agg313mgu 
    I’m curious as to what people think of John Astin? I absolutely love him, speaking with him over the last year has been very revealing!
    He didn’t really speak to in terms of advaita or Buddhism but what he gets across is wonderful. Curious if anyone else resonates with him, and if you think he has realised Anatta or all 7 stages?

    Comments


    • Henry D. Robinson
    Loved him on the Adams Family!


    • Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    Top contributor
    John Astin is pointing to anatta (e.g. https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../john-astins-posts... ), no doubts. Both anatta and one mind are nondual, the difference is that anatta is nonsubstantialist nonduality, one mind is substantialist nonduality -- an ontological and unchanging substance and substratum being nondual with forms, such that the one inherently existing essence modulates as everything.
    Notice that John Astin never affirmed any unchanging ontological essence at all, he rests merely in transience or the dynamic dance absent of a self or duality of subject-object: "But this painting of reality is unlike any you've ever encountered for it’s not just sitting there, static and unmoving. No, this painting is alive. It is in a state of constant flux; the images moving and dancing, transforming themselves moment-by-moment into something else. Take a look… how is the painting of your life appearing right now? And "
    I suggest reading these links to have more clarity on the difference between substantialist and non-substantialist nondual:
    That being said, anatta is not a finality and John Tan seemed to indicate years ago that his insights could be further refined: "Not necessarily reify but from expression, the depth of knowledge and fine knowledge of how presence manifest isn't there or not appropriately expressed."
    Perhaps could be refined in terms of dependent origination and non-arising.
    See for example:

    • Reply
    • 9h
    • Edited

    David Mcdonald
    Author
    Top contributor
    Soh Wei Yu thanks Soh, he speaks of it in such a different way than most do. I could read some material and it would go over my head, but I work with John every Sunday and the way he says it penetrates deep and leads to lasting realisation.
    I could read Kevin’s fetter model all day and come out scratching my head. Reading and working with John however it’s very clear


    • David Mcdonald
    Author
    Top contributor
    Soh Wei Yu In that post do you not think there is sort of a reification of “experience” or experiencing? Like a non dual flow of experiencing?


    Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
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    David Mcdonald I don't know but I think he is clear about these two stanzas of anatta:
    There is thinking, no thinker
    There is hearing, no hearer
    There is seeing, no seer
    In thinking, just thoughts
    In hearing, just sounds
    In seeing, just forms, shapes and colors.
    Don't you think so? But beyond that one has to go deep into dependent origination and emptiness.
    By the way there's nothing wrong with flow of experience. Precisely because it is not substantialist nondual then one speaks about flow of experience. Otherwise one will speak of an unchanging absolute.
    On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection
    On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection

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    • Soh Wei Yu
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    July 2010:
    (2:34 PM) Thusness: Some of AF articles are quite good.
    And the Realization tallies the experience described.
    (2:35 PM) AEN: oic..
    (2:35 PM) Thusness: it is also not easy to have that sort of clarity.
    many cannot differentiate the difference between non-dual and anatta
    (2:38 PM) Thusness: the only point lacking in AF is the realization of 'process'-based understanding
    (2:40 PM) AEN: what do u mean by process based understanding
    (2:41 PM) Thusness: understanding reality as a flow
    not entity
    (2:45 PM) AEN: oic.. but AF doesnt understand reality as an entity right
    (2:45 PM) Thusness: yes but there is a difference
    (2:46 PM) Thusness: no-subject is directly understood as this flow...
    (2:46 PM) Thusness: which is quite clear in joan's article.
    and in stainlessness and tata articles.
    (2:47 PM) Thusness: as well as steven hagen
    (2:47 PM) Thusness: means there is clarity in expression about this.
    (2:49 PM) Thusness: Because in actual experience, it becomes very clear. If a practitioner were to explore further, it will not be difficult for him to realize the impact of 'view' on experience.
    (2:50 PM) AEN: icic..
    (2:55 PM) AEN: btw is this about the flow: "...Apperceptiveness is observing the moving flow of experience and enjoying things as they are changing ... in full appreciation of being here and participating in this happenstance. Apperceptiveness is seeing the birth, growth, and maturation of all phenomena ... and it is seeing all phenomena age, decay and die. Apperceptiveness is its own attentiveness moment by moment, continuously ... one is the experiencing of the doing of this moment of being alive. Apperceptiveness stops one from adding anything to perception, or subtracting something from it: one does not enhance anything for one does not emphasise anything. One is free to observe exactly what is here now without distortion..."
    "...By living together in peace and harmony, equity and freedom, we have proved that, with pure intent, this is possible for anyone on the planet. Life, after all, was meant to be easy, friendly, comfortable, peaceful, harmonious, ever-changing, fresh each moment, direct, obvious, with the senses allowing intimate and total involvement in this moment of being alive. But then again we all have sometimes suspected this and even had tantalizing glimpses of this perfection. It is the destiny we seek..."
    (2:57 PM) Thusness: yes but what is the insight about?
    (2:59 PM) Thusness: when there is no-subject and experience is a moving flow and has always been so, what does that mean? what is the relationship between in/out, here/there, now/then... awareness/thoughts
    (2:59 PM) Thusness: what does the insight of anatta really tell us?
    (3:00 PM) AEN: hmm... its telling us that there is only a flow of sensations with nothing inherent anywhere?
    (3:02 PM) Thusness: there is non-conceptual thought then conceptual thought, then non-conceptual thought...... there is no Awareness
    (3:02 PM) Thusness: relate this to the quotes u provided in ur comment
    (3:08 PM) AEN: hmm.. so when awareness is the flow, both conceptual thought and non conceptual thought have the same essence and nature... there is no other inherent entity called non conceptual awareness, its just a flow of conceptual and non conceptual thoughts and the flow itself is awareness?
    (3:08 PM) Thusness: no
    (3:09 PM) Thusness: there is no the flow itself is awareness as in true existence
    just mere convention
    (3:09 PM) AEN: oic..
    (3:10 PM) AEN: so the insight is in seeing how nothing is inherent and everything we say like in/out, awareness/thoughts etc are mere conventions?
    but in reality theres only a flow
    (3:10 PM) Thusness: no
    (3:11 PM) Thusness: it tells us why a reality that is always so can become entity base...
    (3:11 PM) Thusness: and how it relates to liberation
    (3:12 PM) AEN: oic...
    (3:46 PM) AEN: it tells us why a reality that is always so can become entity base... - u mean by seeing everything as impermanence, then u realise how u have been solidifying them through grasping them as fixed entities?
    Session Start: Saturday, 24 July, 2010
    (11:28 PM) Thusness: AF sees the universe as this flesh and bone as a realization of one's destiny. This is important.
    (11:28 PM) AEN: destiny?
    oic
    thats like anatta right
    (11:30 PM) Thusness: it is very difficult to explain to u now unless it becomes an effortless experience for u.
    (11:31 PM) Thusness: universe as this body is not exactly right but for now it helps ur understanding of impersonality and the I AM phase.
    (11:32 PM) Thusness: if u refine ur non-dual experience in terms of luminosity with all these insights, then u will understand anatta better.
    (11:33 PM) AEN: oic..
    (1:27 AM) AEN: do u think it is possible to be completely emotionally free and fearless? --> hmm the buddha said arhants with defilements do not have fears right?
    *without defilements
    (1:01 PM) Thusness: i do not like to discuss endlessly without true insight. Unless u have genuine understanding of what 'fear' is first.
    (1:01 PM) Thusness: most of what said is theoretical, nothing much experiential yet.
    (1:01 PM) Thusness: it is like telling me theoretically what "I AM" is, there is no point talking about it and end up in endless arguments.
    (1:01 PM) Thusness: However what is important is to know what is the "mode of thought/perception" for spiritual practice -- not by way of inference, deduction or induction. You must replace the 'how, what, where, when and why' with this new found "mode of perception". So are u able to direct experience 'fear' the way u experienced "I AM"?
    (1:02 PM) AEN: oic..
    (1:33 PM) AEN: fear only arise when there is attachment to a sense of self right, otherwise there is just sensations without fear
    (11:26 PM) Thusness: it is very well written but it is just non-conceptual thought and conceptual thought really. 🙂
    (11:26 PM) Thusness: he still can't get around the idea that there is always only thoughts. Conceptuality creates the separation.
    (11:26 PM) Thusness: and this is the practice of bringing presence to the foreground. U have to touch the rawness of 'thought'
    (11:26 PM) Thusness: to deepen the practice. 🙂
    (11:26 PM) Thusness: it is a good practice to lead a practitioner to the realization of non-dual luminosity.
    (11:32 PM) AEN: oic..
    (11:33 PM) AEN: yah yesterday i was trying to be nondual with thoughts... i notice the tendency to discard thoughts to sink back to a formless background is simply more duality... there is no need need to discard anything
    (11:35 PM) Thusness: not only that...there are different degree as i told u...learn to bring this to the foreground...but first...have more indepth experience of impersonality
    (11:35 PM) AEN: oic..
    (11:36 PM) Thusness: kiloby's explanation is quite good but it has to apply to both thoughts and awareness too.
    Page not found - Kiloby.com
    KILOBY.COM
    Page not found - Kiloby.com
    Page not found - Kiloby.com

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    • Soh Wei Yu
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    Another convo with John Tan during my nondual (pre-anatta) phase:
    Start: Monday, 6 September, 2010
    (9:01 PM) AEN: scott kiloby wrote an article on 'The Flow' http://www.kiloby.com/writings.php?offset=0&writingid=253
    (9:13 PM) Thusness: kiloby's article is very good
    (9:16 PM) Thusness: the article u posted in the blog by kiloby and together with this article, it fairly complete
    (9:17 PM) Thusness: u must be able to integrate the 2 articles.
    (9:17 PM) Thusness: currently u r looking at AF 'aliveness' that is only the luminosity aspect.
    (9:19 PM) Thusness: now the article u showed me has two very important points, tell me the 2.
    (9:23 PM) Thusness: many of the titles seem interesting
    (9:35 PM) AEN: it's talking about self not as something solid but as the flow, ungraspable?
    (9:36 PM) Thusness: no
    (9:36 PM) Thusness: completely out
    (9:37 PM) AEN: its saying that concepts are part of the flow, and concepts do not actually refer to something solid, and therefore thoughts aren't a problem?
    (9:38 PM) Thusness: what is the different between all previous articles and this one?
    (9:43 PM) AEN: the previous article seems to stress more on non conceptuality
    this one seems to talk about concepts as not a problem?
    im not so sure
    (9:44 PM) Thusness: just read through the articles, they are very different
    (9:44 PM) AEN: u're talking about which previous article
    (9:44 PM) Thusness: the one u posted in our blog
    (9:45 PM) AEN: oic..
    (9:47 PM) AEN: im not so sure..
    (9:48 PM) Thusness: so just rem this part
    (9:49 PM) AEN: remember what?
    (9:49 PM) Thusness: rem that there are differences between these 2 articles
    very different in fact.
    (9:51 PM) Thusness: and u r always looking for easy answers. Even if u were to think, u still face the same issue that is mentioned in kiloby's article.
    the article that u pasted in this msn.
    (9:51 PM) AEN: oic..
    (10:29 PM) AEN: in the blog article, scott kiloby talks about objects as being thoughts, emotions, sensations happening in awareness
    in the article he talks about thoughts, emotions, sensations as seamless currents of an unknowable river
    (10:30 PM) Thusness: totally out
    (10:30 PM) AEN: oic..
    (10:32 PM) Thusness: the analogy is the same as the dust and the mirror i told u.
    (10:33 PM) Thusness: but he is unable to get over the idea of the mirror.
    (10:33 PM) Thusness: yet in the article of the blog, he spoke of no mirror
    (10:33 PM) AEN: ic..
    (10:33 PM) Thusness: therefore there is no clarity of the view yet
    (10:34 PM) Thusness: u can see he repeatedly talk about the current is the river
    (10:35 PM) AEN: oic.. but wats the difference between the two articles?
    (10:35 PM) Thusness: first go through all the points first
    all are very important
    (10:36 PM) Thusness: post it in the blog, i see whether i got time to go through...there are some very important points that u have to know.
    (10:37 PM) Thusness: it is also advisable to re-read these articles to have deepening insight.
    (10:40 PM) AEN: posted
    (10:41 PM) Thusness: will go through it these few days
    (10:42 PM) AEN: ic..
    (10:43 PM) Thusness: u posted twice
    (10:43 PM) AEN: yea deleted the other one
    (10:56 PM) Thusness: is AF more about the flow article, or you r left with the world?
    (11:00 PM) AEN: you are left with the world
    AF seldom mentions about the flow
    (11:00 PM) AEN: i think
    (11:02 PM) Thusness: yes
    (11:02 PM) Thusness: what is AF emphasizing?
    (11:02 PM) AEN: the universe, the physical, the actual, the intensity of luminosity
    (11:02 PM) Thusness: yes
    this experience peaks when?
    Page not found - Kiloby.com
    KILOBY.COM
    Page not found - Kiloby.com
    Page not found - Kiloby.com

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    (11:03 PM) AEN: hmm
    when one experiences consciousness as just the flow?
    (11:04 PM) Thusness: no
    why u like to anyhow link hah
    (11:05 PM) AEN: 😛 the experience peaks when all sense of self/Self is being dissolved?
    (11:05 PM) Thusness: closer
    when u r left with the world
    (11:05 PM) AEN: oic..
    (11:06 PM) Thusness: like what richard herman said, the zen master slaps the floor... luminosity manifested in the actuality
    (11:06 PM) AEN: ic..
    (11:07 PM) Thusness: so u know why i say AF lacks of something?
    (11:07 PM) Thusness: when no-self matures, what is lacking?
    (11:08 PM) AEN: the intensity of luminosity as the actuality of the world?
    (11:08 PM) Thusness: no
    totally out
    this is what AF is about
    how is it that u r unable to see.
    (11:09 PM) AEN: icic..
    hmm its about the insight into awareness as the flow?
    (11:09 PM) Thusness: are u seeing with ur heart or just going through motion.
    how could the AF be lack of luminosity manifesting as actuality.
    (11:10 PM) Thusness: it is expressed all over the place
    (11:10 PM) AEN: ic.. ya
    (11:10 PM) Thusness: if u truly want to know, then u have to be sincere in practice and at least have certain insight.
    (11:11 PM) Thusness: yet 'the flow' has certain misconception
    (11:12 PM) Thusness: it cannot integrate the article 'u r left with the world' with 'the river and the current'.
    go contemplate
    don't anyhow answer
    (11:13 PM) AEN: oic..
    (11:19 PM) AEN: btw u saw rar jungle's post? http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../thusnesss-six...
    in the comments section
    (11:19 PM) Thusness: yeah
    (11:20 PM) Thusness: such comment is not so appropriate in the blog
    more appropriate to be in the sgforums
    (11:21 PM) AEN: oic..
    (12:38 AM) AEN: mikael says:
    *i think I have a natural disposition toward the PCE
    *i think i've had one before
    *whenever I "naturally" try to meditate.. I concentrate on the senses and try to "become" the world, ignore feelings by just seeming them as impermanent physical sensations. thoughts are usually non existent because i'm concentrating
    *i'm going to try to cultivate that
    (12:44 AM) AEN: i think i know the difference between the first and second article... the awareness is the world is like talking about the 2nd stanza of anatta with the emphasis on luminosity as the universe, then the flow is talking abuot the 1st stanza of anatta... the insubstantiality of everything as
    simply mind moments arising and passing without anything graspable whatsoever. like a thought is simply an arising bubble... but then the flow article fails to integrate the insight of awareness as simply the 'current', the universe, the sensations?
    (1:58 AM) AEN: the new article still talks about river and current as if river is something inherent even though the current is part of the river... the previous article is talking about how there is no mind/awareness, only the manifestation/current
    Session Start: Tuesday, 7 September, 2010
    (11:15 AM) Thusness: PCE is simply non-dual experience except the realization is about manifestation (coming face to face with the actual stuff, i.e, the other five entries and exits) instead of coming face to face with "I AM".
    ur answer is still no good
    (11:15 AM) Thusness: although ur answer is quite near. You must also be aware of the part on there is no way u can have any 'concepts' of the flow. But the idea or 'right view' is still not there. Not having any 'fixed idea' or 'fixed view' is still not good enough.
    (11:16 AM) AEN: oic..
    (11:43 AM) AEN: what do u think of what upekka said: when we say 'we see the computer screen', we take the 'seeing+computer screen' as one entity and we are conscious to the computer screen. this is what happen to us all the time, this will be what happen to us all the time unless we can not understand Buddha's Teaching
    if we are mindful, if we have sati, if we have yoniso-manasikara, we do not cling to the 'computer screen', we are not with ignoranace (avijja) so do not create any sankhara (kamma-formation)
    when there is no kamma-formation, there is no place for Consciousness to reside on
    (11:43 AM) AEN: one thought moment arisen and fallen away without any residual to come back again in future
    in other words, in one thought moment there is no Dependent-arising activated
    * There is no individual 'seer', there is only Pure Consciousness Seeing.
    * There is no individual 'hearer', there is only Pure Consciousness Hearing.
    * There is no individual 'speaker', there is only Pure Consciousness Speaking.
    * There is no individual 'thinker', there is only Pure Consciousness Thinking.
    * There is no individual' doer', there is only Pure Consciousness Doing.
    * There is no individual 'life', there is only Pure Consciousness Living.
    * There is no individual 'breather', there is only Pure Consciousness breathing.
    This "pure Intelligence" or "living presence" is keeping your entire body together, the "glue" that is holding the whole universe in place as it appears. Functioning your entire body effortlessly and naturally for you. There is absolutely nothing you have to do by "will", to be alive right now! This living presence or livingness naturally IS! It is your natural state of presence.
    (4:44 PM) AEN:
    Just like when you were only a group of cells, this "pure Intelligence" or "Life" was growing you and forming you effortlessly and naturally. Putting together the pattern or body that you have right now, inside your mother's womb all by itself, just as it is still
    growing you right now naturally and effortlessly all by itself. This pure Intelligence, Life or Consciousness, does not need any help from you or anyone else, it knows very well what it is doing!
    Realize that this entire manifested Universe is that exact same one "Presence", unchanged and untouched by time and space. The "Infinite Essence" of this entire Universe is your essence also, one and the same! Only one essence is present, that is your true nature or natural state of presence, not a small transient human being, but this Infinite unchanging Presence of Consciousness.
    Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment
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    Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment
    Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment

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    • Soh Wei Yu
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    (8:33 PM) Thusness: this is what your must experience for the next few years
    (8:34 PM) Thusness: + what taught in AF. That is experience the actuality of manifestation
    (8:35 PM) Thusness: PCE must be experienced in both background and foreground and the realization of "I AM" and One Mind must be clear.
    (10:29 PM) AEN: oic..
    (11:11 PM) Thusness: ic...seems like the blog is getting popular...lol
    u promoted too much
    (11:12 PM) Thusness: when u go bmt, u will not have so much time
    (11:12 PM) AEN: ic..
    (11:14 PM) Thusness: wow...visitors is 183
    yesterday
    Session Start: Friday, 10 September, 2010
    (11:39 PM) AEN: yesterday had a weird dream.. u passed away. and i was very sad... lol
    (12:24 AM) AEN: intense luminosity is very blissful
    (10:04 AM) Thusness: lol
    (10:04 AM) Thusness: yes...intense luminosity is very blissful...only in a relax way that 'you' disappears.
    (10:04 AM) Thusness: This is not "I AM" realization
    (10:04 AM) Thusness: anyway your experience of aliveness is good, u r directly experiencing 'this' in the foreground as transience and beginning to experience the bliss of anatta...i hope to write you something before ur enlistment. 🙂
    Session Start: Sunday, 12 September, 2010
    (12:15 AM) Thusness: Thorough aliveness also requires you to disappear. It is an experience of being totally transparent and without boundaries. If you do not fall back to a background, these experiences are quite obvious, u will not miss it.
    (12:21 AM) AEN: oic..
    (12:22 AM) Thusness: In addition to bringing this taste to the foreground, u must also realize the difference between wrong and right view. There is also a difference in saying Different forms of Aliveness and There is just breath, sound, scenery
    (12:23 AM) Thusness: that these arising dependently originates.
    (12:24 AM) Thusness: In the former case, realize how the mind is manifesting a subtle tendency of attempting to pin and locate something that inherently exists. The mind feels uneasy and needs to seek for something due to its existing paradigm.
    . It is not simply a matter of expression for communication sake but a habit that runs deep because it lacks a view that is able to cater for reality that is dynamic, ungraspable, non-local , center-less and interdependent.
    (12:25 AM) Thusness: Otherwise the mind will continue to locate and seek.
    (12:26 AM) Thusness: Lastly also understand that 'bliss' is the result of luminosity, 'liberation' is the result of the insight of emptiness.
    (12:26 AM) AEN: ic..
    so one must understand emptiness also
    (12:27 AM) AEN: like replace the wrong view with right view
    (12:27 AM) Thusness: yes
    (12:28 AM) Thusness: intensity of luminosity into the foreground, into actuality does not result in auto letting go.
    (12:28 AM) Thusness: the mind continues to hold in a very deep level and subtle way.
    (12:28 AM) AEN: oic..
    (12:34 AM) Thusness: so u know why Buddha taught vipassana?
    (12:35 AM) AEN: its to directly experience luminosity without a self and without holding on to something permanent or inherent
    (12:36 AM) Thusness: in the foreground
    (12:36 AM) AEN: ic..
    (12:36 AM) Thusness: as aggregates
    (12:38 AM) AEN: oic..


    • Soh Wei Yu
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    4. On Non-Dual Experience, Realization and Anatta
    I have just casually gone through some of your forum discussions. Very enlightening discussions and well presentation of my 7-phases-of-insights but try not to over-emphasize it as a model; it should not be taken as a definite model of enlightenment nor should you use it as a framework to validate others' experiences and insights. Simply take it as a guide along your spiritual journey.
    You are right to differentiate non-dual experience from non-dual realization and non-dual realization from the insight of anatta. We have discussed this umpteem times. Non-dual experience in the context we are using refers to the experience of no-subject-object division. The experience is much like putting two candle flames together where the boundary between the flames becomes indistinguishable. It is not a realization but simply a stage, an experience of unity between the observer and the observed where the conceptual layer that divides is temporarily suspended in a meditative state. This you have experienced.
    Non-dual realization on the other hand is a deep understanding that comes from seeing through the illusionary nature of subject-object division. It is a natural non-dual state that resulted from an insight that arises after rigorous investigation, challenge and a prolonged period of practice that is specially focused on ‘No-Self’. Somehow focusing on “No-Self” will spark a sense of sacredness towards the transient and fleeting phenomena. The sense of sacredness that is once the monopoly of the Absolute is now also found in the Relative. The term ‘No-Self’ like Zen-Koan may appear cryptic, senseless or illogical but when realized, it is actually obviously clear, direct and simple. The realization is accompanied with the experience that everything is being dissolved into either:
    1. An ultimate Subject or
    2. As mere ‘flow of phenomenality’
    In whatever the case, both spells the end of separateness; experientially there is no sense of two-ness and the experience of unity can be quite overwhelming initially but eventually it will lose its grandeur and things turn quite ordinary. Nevertheless, regardless of whether the sense of Oneness is derived from the experience of ‘All as Self’ or ‘as simply just manifestation’, it is the beginning insight of “No-Self”. The former is known as One-Mind and the later, No-Mind.
    In Case 1 it is usual that practitioners will continue to personify, reify and extrapolate a metaphysical essence in a very subtle way, almost unknowingly. This is because despite the non-dual realization, understanding is still orientated from a view that is based on subject-object dichotomy. As such it is hard to detect this tendency and practitioners continue their journey of building their understanding of ‘No-Self based on Self’.
    For Case 2 practitioners, they are in a better position to appreciate the doctrine of anatta. When insight of Anatta arises, all experiences become implicitly non-dual. But the insight is not simply about seeing through separateness; it is about the thorough ending of reification so that there is an instant recognition that the ‘agent’ is extra, in actual experience it does not exist. It is an immediate realization that experiential reality has always been so and the existence of a center, a base, a ground, a source has always been assumed.
    To mature this realization, even direct experience of the absence of an agent will prove insufficient; there must also be a total new paradigm shift in terms of view; we must free ourselves from being bonded to the idea, the need, the urge and the tendency of analyzing, seeing and understanding our moment to moment of experiential reality from a source, an essence, a center, a location, an agent or a controller and rest entirely on anatta and Dependent Origination.
    Therefore this phase of insight is not about singing eloquently the non-dual nature of an Ultimate Reality; contrary it is deeming this Ultimate Reality as irrelevant. Ultimate Reality appears relevant only to a mind that is bond to seeing things inherently, once this tendency dissolves, the idea of a source will be seen as flawed and erroneous. Therefore to fully experience the breadth and depth of no-self, practitioners must be prepared and willing to give up the entire subject-object framework and be open to eliminate the entire idea of a ‘source’. Rob expressed very skillfully this point in his talk:
    One time the Buddha went to a group of monks and he basically told them not to see Awareness as The Source of all things. So this sense of there being a vast awareness and everything just appears out of that and disappears back into it, beautiful as that is, he told them that’s actually not a skillful way of viewing reality. And that is a very interesting sutta, because it’s one of the only suttas where at the end it doesn’t say the monks rejoiced in his words.
    This group of monks didn’t want to hear that. They were quite happy with that level of insight, lovely as it was, and it said the monks did not rejoice in the Buddha’s words. (laughter) And similarly, one runs into this as a teacher, I have to say. This level is so attractive, it has so much of the flavor of something ultimate, that often times people are unbudgeable there.
    What then is the view that Buddhism is talking about without resorting to a ‘source’? I think the post by Vajrahridaya in the thread ‘What makes Buddhism different’ of your forum succinctly and concisely expressed the view, it is well written. That said, do remember to infinitely regress back into this vivid present moment of manifestation – as this arising thought, as this passing scent – Emptiness is Form. 🙂
    Realization and Experience and Non-Dual Experience from Different Perspectives
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    Realization and Experience and Non-Dual Experience from Different Perspectives
    Realization and Experience and Non-Dual Experience from Different Perspectives

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