This video is a good description of the Light, the Source, etc as realized and experienced in an NDE [Near Death Experience]. But after realizing the luminosity, one must realize its empty nature too for liberation.
Also you don't need to die to realize and experience the vivid brilliant luminosity.. you can realize that even now, as I wrote in http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2019/02/the-transient-universe-has-heart.html
Was reminded of John Tan's comment in 2005,
"A “True experience” is better than a thousand words but it is also the very “true experience” of the Brilliance Bright that has blinded Mystics of all ages. The Brilliance Bright is more vivid then we can imagine. In All IT is seen and In All IT is experienced. Being vividly bright it also serves as the “condition” that obscures its very own Emptiness nature.
Lastly, there is a question, but No-One is there to answer.
Buddha picks a flower, Mahakashyapa smiles.
Thusness hits the keyboard, keyboard-sounds.
“Da Da Da”, how CLEAR. Luminosity smiles. :)"
And John wrote in 2008,
Originally posted by longchen [Sim Pern Chong]:
Watched the video .. a bit. Desteni is quite popular in the new age scene.
Just my opinion...
When we die, the thoughts and emotions can be dissolve in the death process... and what is left is the non-dual , all pervading experience of Presence. Here is usually when a 'being' discovered that it is not just the thought and emotion. But, the understanding is not clear here.
For those on an enlightenment path, we sort of 'experience death' before physical death. This experience of death happens many many times while still physically alive. And with gradual experiences, we understand the nature of the reality better.
In another word, we become more efficient and discard those ways of dealings that are not very helpful... Something like that...
Thusness / John Tan replied:
Hi Longchen,
Must be having a challenging time sustaining the vivid presence of non-dual experience. Just to share with you some of my thoughts:
When we die, the thoughts and emotions that are karmically linked to the body are temporarily suspended. The contrast in experience that resulted from the dissolution of the ‘bond of a body’ gives rise to a more vivid experience of Presence; although the experience of Presence is there, the insight into its non-dual essence and emptiness nature isn’t there. This is similar to the experience of “I AM”. Thoughts and emotions will continue to arise and subside with the bond of ‘I’ and ‘Mine’ after death.
Awareness is always non-dual and all pervading; obscured but not lost. In essence all manifestation, transient (emotions, thoughts or feelings) is really the manifold of Presence. They have the same non-dual essence and empty nature. All problems lie not at the manifestation level but at the fundamental level. Deep in us we see things inherently and dualistically. How the experience of Presence can be distorted with the ‘bond’ of dualistic and inherent seeing maybe loosely categorized as:
1. There is a mirror reflecting dust. (“I AM”)
Mirror bright is experienced but distorted. Dualistic and Inherent seeing.
2. Dust is required for the mirror to see itself.
Non-Dualistic but Inherent seeing. (Beginning of non-dual insight)
3. Dust has always been the mirror ( The mirror here is seen as a whole)
Non-Dualistic and non- inherent insight.
In 3, whatever comes and goes is the Rigpa itself. There is no Rigpa other than that. All along there is no dust really, only when a particular speck of dust claims that it is the purest and truest state then immediately all other arising which from beginning are self- mirroring become dust.
Journey of the Mind: Preparing for the Bardo (PDF) 2024
im not familiar with the bardo terms
pure nondual awareness dawns at death but its empty nature wont be realized unless one is instructed and often have some degree of realization and practice in life prior
have you read anita moorjani, it's very interesting. she realized the I AM through NDE (if you have not read, i highly recommend, she healed her 4th stage cancer through the NDE experience and met other beings in bardo, quite interesting: https://www.amazon.com/Dying-Be-Me-Journey-Healing-ebook/dp/B096DP5KL6/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.NvRDtXlZt2L8GMcse4NCLZBeVygg4_nM_WMrIZXbg8_GTsiU-AZvSz9KkA3jANtl-LNnSFzjHe_aYC0SA3ZOlh5tjyaXyhPZBFPiyEPV8b4J-ZmHswSf-qPbGmJCPuH7bIyZ_RqEq_qjiMJpnXvKE-us5dCSQCzxoCYv9D5qomLFZ225mtOZKHOlkBqAHb07DrIWN5_ugySY41EWZ3-5vaaU5s1sWkWlo7fOBgqKM9U.cHhbKbqZLEGXXlB_OIkZMSnFJdrrBqbsmj717m5WfDY&dib_tag=se&qid=1712468077&refinements=p_27%3AAnita+Moorjani&s=books&sr=1-1 ). also there are other people who spoke to me personally that also realised the I AM through NDE. plenty of those who had NDE awakened to I AM.
besides self enquiry and meditation, it's also possible to realise I AM through stroke ( https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2023/01/jill-bolte-taylor-and-two-important.html ), through psychedelics (e.g. ram dass, leo gura, etc), and through many other various ways.
but i have not heard of any person who realised anatta through any of the above (including NDE). i think it's highly unlikely someone will realise anatta and emptiness suddenly at the time of death unless some master is giving direct pointing instructions at that time and the person is somehow ready to realise, or somehow for some reason the person is already quite well practiced in life and suddenly contemplates and realises it at the time of death. idk.
even for psychedelics, it just leads to I AM at most and other nondual peak experiences.
on psychedelics theres a youtube video john tan liked a lot: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2024/02/madness-or-nirvana-psychedelics-paradox.html
also, excerpt from the https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/08/psychedelics-and-buddhist-practice.html:
Session Start: Friday, 9 February, 2007
(11:40 AM) AEN: hi.. wats that book about? anyway that guy took LSD and became enlightened? lol
(11:41 AM) Thusness: he is pro-LSD. :)
(11:41 AM) Thusness: but anywhere mentioned he took LSD?
(11:41 AM) Thusness: it is an interesting topic though.
(11:41 AM) AEN: http://freespace.virgin.net/sarah.peter.nelson/lazyman/addendum.html
(11:41 AM) Thusness: maybe a lil on that aspect.
(11:41 AM) AEN: huh
(11:44 AM) Thusness: i mean maybe i will discuss about a bit on that aspect. I did a lil study on LSD when Ram Dass someone I respected a lot was dismissed from Havard. :)
(11:44 AM) AEN: oo icic..
(11:47 AM) Thusness: did u summarized what i told u to do yesterday?
(11:47 AM) AEN: lol still remember this guy came to #buddhism last time and said something like hemp helps in enlightenment? lol
(11:47 AM) AEN: some hinduistic guy
(11:47 AM) AEN: oh haven yet :P
(11:47 AM) Thusness: go do it. :)
(11:47 AM) AEN: ok
(11:48 AM) Thusness: and relate global warming with the first para in the booklet. :)
(11:48 AM) Thusness: what do u think?
(11:48 AM) Thusness: be critical and state ur own view.
(11:48 AM) AEN: first para?
(11:48 AM) AEN: oh ok i go read
(11:48 AM) AEN: first para as in chapter one's first para ?
(11:48 AM) AEN: ok
Session Start: Friday, 9 February, 2007
(1:16 PM) AEN: oops haven quoted the website... lol later
Session Start: Saturday, 10 February, 2007
(11:44 PM) AEN: oh yes u said u wanted to share something about LSD
(12:00 AM) AEN: btw ask u ah... u said shamatha can lead to samadhi (subject object fuse into one) rite? but what is the relationship between samadhi and jhana? can u enter into jhana without samadhi, or enter into samadhi without jhana?
Session Start: Sunday, 11 February, 2007
(1:08 PM) Thusness: hmm...don't think i want to write about LSD in a forum.
(1:09 PM) AEN: o haha how come
(1:09 PM) Thusness: the reason is that it might mislead one into seeking altered state of consciousness by taking psychoactive drugs.
(1:09 PM) AEN: oic..
(1:10 PM) Thusness: even if I said we shouldn't, but some might not be able to resist the temptation and opt for a try.
(1:10 PM) Thusness: this is dangerous.
(1:10 PM) AEN: icic..
(1:11 PM) Thusness: jhana is a form of samadhi.
(1:11 PM) AEN: but actually these kind of psychedelics can lead to a state of witnessing?
(1:11 PM) AEN: oic
(1:11 PM) Thusness: yes.
(1:11 PM) Thusness: it is an altered state of consciousness
(1:11 PM) Thusness: i would say similar to astral plane
(1:12 PM) Thusness: not so much enlightenment.
(1:12 PM) Thusness: but very similar form of experience.
(1:12 PM) AEN: oic..
(1:12 PM) Thusness: as in the phase of "I AMness".
(1:12 PM) Thusness: the insight is restricted to that level.
(1:12 PM) AEN: icic..
(1:12 PM) Thusness: not the form of buddhist enlightenment
(1:12 PM) Thusness: but very intense.
(1:13 PM) AEN: hmm but alot of LSD users never realise 'I Amness' rite?
(1:13 PM) AEN: loo
(1:13 PM) AEN: *lol
(1:13 PM) AEN: oic..
(1:13 PM) Thusness: yeah...went high.
(1:13 PM) Thusness: but there is a group of users that use LSD for spiritual purpose.
(1:14 PM) AEN: icic..
(1:14 PM) Thusness: and some use it to enter a state of trance.
(1:14 PM) AEN: oic..
(1:14 PM) AEN: yea heard of it
(1:14 PM) Thusness: those tribes.
(1:14 PM) AEN: like shamans also ?
(1:14 PM) AEN: ya
(1:14 PM) Thusness: even those sheng2 da3
(1:14 PM) AEN: dharma dan also suggested its possible to use drugs
(1:14 PM) Thusness: and medium
(1:15 PM) Thusness: is it?
(1:15 PM) AEN: but he warned must be under guidance of an experienced teacher
(1:15 PM) Thusness: it is better not to mention.
(1:15 PM) AEN: and not really recommend
(1:15 PM) AEN: oic
(1:15 PM) Thusness: i think ppl will just try.
(1:15 PM) AEN: lol
(1:15 PM) Thusness: i hv no problem if it is use for one to experience the reality of consciousness.
(1:16 PM) AEN: oic
(1:16 PM) Thusness: seriously. I think it is okie in fact.
(1:16 PM) AEN: lol
(1:16 PM) AEN: icic
(1:16 PM) Thusness: to have a glimpse of the deeper essence is worth.
(1:16 PM) AEN: u try b4? :P
(1:16 PM) Thusness: many do not understand.
(1:16 PM) AEN: oic
(1:16 PM) Thusness: of course not. :)
(1:16 PM) Thusness: i don't need to. :)
(1:17 PM) AEN: lol icic
(1:17 PM) Thusness: many of the states that are described are being experienced by me.
(1:17 PM) AEN: oic
(1:17 PM) AEN: but anyway how can lsd help?
(1:17 PM) AEN: and also u said many ppl went high? if went high then cannot enter witnessing?
(1:17 PM) Thusness: just to allow one to understand the further dimension of consciousness.
(1:17 PM) AEN: oic
(1:17 PM) Thusness: they can.
(1:18 PM) Thusness: if they have certain background and understanding, it can lead to illumination.
(1:18 PM) AEN: icic
(1:18 PM) AEN: but only to stage 1-2?
(1:18 PM) Thusness: yeah
(1:18 PM) AEN: icic
(1:19 PM) Thusness: no way into stage 4 or 5.
(1:19 PM) Thusness: it is unlikely.
(1:19 PM) AEN: oic
(1:19 PM) Thusness: that has to do with insight.
(1:19 PM) AEN: icic
(1:19 PM) Thusness: and seen the illusoriness of background.
(1:19 PM) Thusness: without this, the pronounce state of clarity rest at the level of "I AM".
(1:20 PM) AEN: oic
(1:20 PM) Thusness: that is why non-dual is a very precious state.
(1:20 PM) Thusness: and one should work hard to thoroughly experience clarity of non-dual.
(1:20 PM) AEN: icic..
(1:20 PM) Thusness: by second door and emptiness.
(1:20 PM) AEN: oic
—> IMO, the same principle applies for those bardo beings
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Update 2024, another NDE case that realised I AM during NDE: