Showing posts with label Robert Aho. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Robert Aho. Show all posts

This video is a good description of the Light, the Source, etc as realized and experienced in an NDE [Near Death Experience]. But after realizing the luminosity, one must realize its empty nature too for liberation.

As for NDE light, John Tan wrote before, “That light is just alaya, not the nature of mind (imo).  There is no form whatsoever that can be grasped.  Signlessness therefore appearances are possible.”

Also you don't need to die to realize and experience the vivid brilliant luminosity.. you can realize that even now, as I wrote in

Was reminded of John Tan's comment in 2005,

"A “True experience” is better than a thousand words but it is also the very “true experience” of the Brilliance Bright that has blinded Mystics of all ages. The Brilliance Bright is more vivid then we can imagine. In All IT is seen and In All IT is experienced. Being vividly bright it also serves as the “condition” that obscures its very own Emptiness nature.

Lastly, there is a question, but No-One is there to answer.
Buddha picks a flower, Mahakashyapa smiles.
Thusness hits the keyboard, keyboard-sounds.
“Da Da Da”, how CLEAR. Luminosity smiles. :)"

And John wrote in 2008,

Originally posted by longchen [Sim Pern Chong]:
Watched the video .. a bit. Desteni is quite popular in the new age scene.
Just my opinion...
When we die, the thoughts and emotions can be dissolve in the death process... and what is left is the non-dual , all pervading experience of Presence. Here is usually when a 'being' discovered that it is not just the thought and emotion. But, the understanding is not clear here.
For those on an enlightenment path, we sort of 'experience death' before physical death. This experience of death happens many many times while still physically alive. And with gradual experiences, we understand the nature of the reality better.
In another word, we become more efficient and discard those ways of dealings that are not very helpful... Something like that...

Thusness / John Tan replied:

Hi Longchen,
Must be having a challenging time sustaining the vivid presence of non-dual experience. Just to share with you some of my thoughts:
When we die, the thoughts and emotions that are karmically linked to the body are temporarily suspended. The contrast in experience that resulted from the dissolution of the ‘bond of a body’ gives rise to a more vivid experience of Presence; although the experience of Presence is there, the insight into its non-dual essence and emptiness nature isn’t there. This is similar to the experience of “I AM”. Thoughts and emotions will continue to arise and subside with the bond of ‘I’ and ‘Mine’ after death.
Awareness is always non-dual and all pervading; obscured but not lost. In essence all manifestation, transient (emotions, thoughts or feelings) is really the manifold of Presence. They have the same non-dual essence and empty nature. All problems lie not at the manifestation level but at the fundamental level. Deep in us we see things inherently and dualistically. How the experience of Presence can be distorted with the ‘bond’ of dualistic and inherent seeing maybe loosely categorized as:
1. There is a mirror reflecting dust. (“I AM”)
Mirror bright is experienced but distorted. Dualistic and Inherent seeing.
2. Dust is required for the mirror to see itself.
Non-Dualistic but Inherent seeing. (Beginning of non-dual insight)
3. Dust has always been the mirror ( The mirror here is seen as a whole)
Non-Dualistic and non- inherent insight.
In 3, whatever comes and goes is the Rigpa itself. There is no Rigpa other than that. All along there is no dust really, only when a particular speck of dust claims that it is the purest and truest state then immediately all other arising which from beginning are self- mirroring become dust.



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William Lim Yo William, imo, this brilliance at death is blinding.. Imo, the insight of anatta n emptiness will/shld prevent overly 'enchantment' by that awesomeness. For that enchantment is also a kind of ignorance, the imprints can drive compulsive rebirth again. 

Technically, speaking the nature of reality is the same 'taste' in all situations... even right here and now. But that intensity will be much much stronger at the time of death.
Just my opinion."

I hope i understood why he say the brilliance of the Citta is also the ultimate danger. Could it be similar to my experience of the alaya consciousness brilliance and vastness... 'overriding' the inclination to propel rebirths. I see that very exalted state as the core state that is actually generating rebirths due to residue imprints of regrets/dissatisfactions/trauma/desires and hence subject/object splits into a big self (at the level). The exaltedness of the experience overshadows the dynamics or rebirths. In my experience, the imprints were not recognised as defilements.. but were instead used as the driving force of rebirth.. in the seek for resolution. This is how i see it.

In a way, not recognising that nature of anatta and emptiness, even at the level of the vastness/exaltedness.. is driving the rebirth.. For from the level of the 'citta' (prior to awakening).. there is the focus of deathlessness.. but not the recognition of suffering..

At that level, the lower gross thoughts, physical sensations all are cut off.. and the 'citta' is in all brilliance, vastness. I was confused and blinded by that exaltedness. In NDEs, people are talking about the awesomeness and brilliance of that experience.. its blinded them.. into thinking that all that matters is that .. while the pain of their physical existence is insignificant. I don't know how to explain this well. But switching back and forth from that brilliance and 'physical attention'.. helps to confirm that the dichotomy and the subsequent amnesia (of both that exalted state and the 'physical') is a problem."

As for NDE light, John Tan wrote before, “That light is just alaya, not the nature of mind (imo). There is no form whatsoever that can be grasped. Signlessness therefore appearances are possible.”


Thrangu Rinpoche:

What actually causes the ground wisdom, or dharmata to appear? In the discussion of the life-winds, we said that our mind consists of eight consciousnesses with the root of all of these consciousnesses being the eighth all-basis consciousness.66 This consciousness functions contin- uously whether we are walking, talking, eating, or even sleeping. The all- basis consciousness is the cognitive lucidity that holds together the other seven consciousnesses. The nature of this consciousness is luminous clarity while at the same time being empty, so it is referred to as the unity of emptiness and luminous clarity. The problem is that when the luminous clarity of the all-basis consciousness arises, it is so over-whelming or “bright” that we don’t recognize all-basis consciousness as being empty. This then causes us to mistake the true nature of reality.67

Ignorance (Tib. marigpa) is not mere unconsciousness but a lucid function of mind. Although ignorance is a negative function of the mind, it comes, nevertheless, out of the luminous clarity of the mind. First, this ignorance is the lack of understanding of the emptiness of phenomena.

Next, this ignorance causes us to mistake our empty, or insubstantial, self for an “I” that is a real, solid self. This second part of ignorance causes the creation of the seventh afflicted consciousness. The seventh conscious- ness is an underlying belief in our self that we continuously hold. Whether we are thinking about this self or not, there is always a fixed belief in the self. The eighth all-basis consciousness and the seventh afflicted mental consciousness are said to be stable (nonfluctuating) because they function without interruption.

Source of thrangu Rinpoche text, recommended reading: 

Journey of the Mind: Preparing for the Bardo (PDF) 2024

Also related:

Bewildered by Luminosity

Thusness, 2005 "A “True experience” is better than a thousand words but it is also the very “true experience” of the Brilliance Bright that has blinded Mystics of all ages. The Brilliance Bright is more vivid then we can imagine. In All IT is seen and In All IT is experienced. Being vividly bright it also serves as the “condition” that obscures its very own Emptiness nature."
Below are excerpts from Thrangu Rinpoche's teaching.

Q: If the nature of mind is this all-pervading, brilliant union of luminosity and emptiness, ungraspable, how is it that it could be obscured, even for a moment, let alone for lifetime after lifetime?

{Tibetan translation}

A: Because it's too brilliant, that's the short answer. {laughter} It's like this. Luminous, brilliant emptiness, is the nature of mind. And it's been there with us inseparably for beginningless time. But the brilliance is a bit too strong. If you take the two, the factor of luminosity and the factor of emptiness, the former one, the factor of luminosity is a bit strong. A bit stronger. And because it's so strong, we don't see the empty factor. We don't see the factor of emptiness. Because of the brilliance of the mind, all these things appear, and they look so real, and we get so fascinated with it. {laughter} We're really stuck. We're really stuck on them, and we're confused, and becoming bewildered and confused by them, then we don't realize the nature of our minds. We become completely intoxicated with the brilliance and the luminosity, and what all of what it displays to us, and we don't see the emptiness.

Now when Buddhists talk about ignorance, they don't mean some sort of black darkness, just shrouded... they actually mean it's so brilliant. It's so vivid, that we become confused by it. So we have to turn inwards and look, and see the emptiness that we've not been seeing, because we've been following after the luminosity for so long. Good example is a movie, movie comes on, we know it's just a movie, pretty soon {laughter}. We know it's somebody... picture, you know. There's human beings, and there's mountains, and there's rivers, and these wild life and plains, and we're completely drawn to it. And it's just because its brilliance is too strong, that's why we have to turn and look at the emptiness.

{Questioner: Wow. Laugher}

p.s. For those wondering what 'Luminosity' mean, here's a glossary definition by Lama Tony Duff:

Luminosity or illumination, Skt. prabhåsvara, Tib. ’od gsal ba: The core of mind has two aspects: an emptiness factor and a knowing factor. The Buddha and many Indian religious teachers used “luminosity” as a metaphor for the knowing quality of the core of mind. If in English we would say “Mind has a knowing quality”, the teachers of ancient India would say, “Mind has an illuminative quality; it is like a source of light which illuminates what it knows”.

This term been translated as “clear light” but that is a mistake that comes from not understanding the etymology of the word. It does not refer to a light that has the quality of clearness (something that makes no sense, actually!) but to the illuminative property which is the nature of the empty mind.

Note also that in both Sanskrit and Tibetan Buddhist litera- ture, this term is frequently abbreviated just to Skt. “vara” and Tib. “gsal ba” with no change of meaning. Unfortu- nately, this has been thought to be another word and it has then been translated with “clarity”, when in fact it is just this term in abbreviation.

Labels: Emptiness, Luminosity, Thrangu Rinpoche 2 comments | |
Bewildered by Luminosity



(10:57 PM) John: Rather, the very deepest part of you is one with the entire Kosmos in all its radiant glory.  You simply are everything that is arising moment to moment.  You do not see the sky, you are the sky.  You do not touch the earth, you are the earth.  You do not hear the rain, you are the rain.  You and the universe are what the mystics call "One Taste."
(10:59 PM) John: This is not poetry.  This is a direct realization, as direct as a glass of cold water in the face.  As a great Zen Master said upon his enlightenment "When I heard the sound of the bell ringing, there is no bell and no I, just the ringing."
(11:00 PM) John: 1997 Journal Sunday, March 9
(11:00 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:01 PM) John: There is no inside and no outside, no in here versus out there.  The nondual univese of One Taste arises as a spontaneous gesture of your own true nature.  You can taste the sun and swallow the moon, and centuries fit in the palm of your hand.
(11:01 PM) John: all these are experiences of anatta. 🙂 (comment: John would later clarify that while Ken Wilber's experience is non-dual, the view is of substantial non-dual rather than anatta, i.e. One Mind)
(11:02 PM) John: but sinking back to the source.
(11:02 PM) John: that is why non inherent nature, emptiness nature of Presence is very important.
(11:02 PM) John: one sees the luminosity but forgotten about its emptiness nature
(11:03 PM) John: this will cause one to overlook karma.
(11:03 PM) John: Presence has no self, nor otherness
(11:03 PM) John: it also IS and the IS arises and ceases
(11:04 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:04 PM) John: this rises, that arises
(11:04 PM) John: and ISness is that arising as well as ceasing
(11:04 PM) John: the nature is empty.
(11:04 PM) AEN: oic
(11:05 PM) John: when one sink back to the source and say pure consciousness without object is the highest....then one falls.
(11:05 PM) John: manifested and unmanifested are one.  A stage that has entry and exit isn't the expression of dharma. :)
(11:06 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:07 PM) AEN: but when one says 'all is consciousness' there isnt distinction between manifested and unmanifested rite
(11:08 PM) John: there is discernment, there is no discrimination.  One understand clearly the emptiness nature of our nature.  The clarity will deepens even further if we understand this.
(11:09 PM) John: now...why is there deep sleep and dreams?
(11:09 PM) AEN: conditions?
(11:09 PM) John: yes
(11:10 PM) John: when one is aware of a dreamless state, why so?
(11:10 PM) John: when one is aware of dream, why so?
(11:10 PM) John: because our nature is empty
(11:11 PM) John: that is why dreamless state to dream to waking
(11:11 PM) John: when we say Presence, is ringing the same as the color 'green'?
(11:12 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:12 PM) AEN: nope
(11:12 PM) John: but the ringing is total presence without 'I'
(11:13 PM) John: sames goes to color
(11:13 PM) AEN: icic
(11:13 PM) John: does our buddha nature fail to discern?
(11:13 PM) John: sky is me, the rain is come?
(11:14 PM) John: one knows the luminosity but fail to see the emptiness nature.
(11:14 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:14 PM) John: this is what i say why buddha fall into samsara.
(11:14 PM) AEN: oic
(11:14 PM) John: there is a thread right?
(11:15 PM) AEN: which thread?
(11:15 PM) John: why buddha has fallen...
(11:15 PM) AEN: yes
(11:17 PM) John:
(11:17 PM) John: eheheh
(11:17 PM) AEN: yea
(11:17 PM) AEN: lol
(11:18 PM) John: too brilliance bright result in the fall. :P
(11:19 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:20 PM) John: If the nature of mind is this all-pervading, brilliant union of luminosity and emptiness, ungraspable, how is it that it could be obscured, even for a moment, let alone lifetime after lifetime?

(11:20 PM) John: how pitiful if one gone through all the stages of fruition and fall.
(11:21 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:21 PM) AEN: fall as in how? go back to samsara?
(11:22 PM) John: depending on ones condition
(11:23 PM) AEN: oic
(11:43 PM) John: Sunday, April 27 1997
No, as you rest in Witness -- realizing, I am not objects, I am not feelings, I am not thoughts -- all you will notice is a sense of Freedom, a sense of liberation, a sense of Release....
(11:43 PM) John: does buddhism teach this?
(11:43 PM) AEN: oic wat about it
(11:43 PM) AEN: oops
(11:43 PM) AEN: sorry din scroll down
(11:44 PM) AEN: skhandas are empty of self yes... but not sure about resting in witness
(11:45 PM) John: there is no I am feelings, I am thinking...
(11:45 PM) John: feeling alone there is, no feeler
(11:45 PM) John: empty phenomenon rolls
(11:46 PM) John: actually the feeling is the emptiness nature of our buddha mind.
(11:46 PM) John: disassociation is not it, association is also not it.
(11:47 PM) John: by disassociating it and say the source is in direct contradiction.
(11:47 PM) John: then why is one with the sky, the rain?
(11:47 PM) John: but not thoughts and feelings
(11:47 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:47 PM) John: so some i associate, some don't associate 😛


Sent to someone:

im not familiar with the bardo terms

pure nondual awareness dawns at death but its empty nature wont be realized unless one is instructed and often have some degree of realization and practice in life prior

have you read anita moorjani, it's very interesting. she realized the I AM through NDE (if you have not read, i highly recommend, she healed her 4th stage cancer through the NDE experience and met other beings in bardo, quite interesting: ). also there are other people who spoke to me personally that also realised the I AM through NDE. plenty of those who had NDE awakened to I AM.

besides self enquiry and meditation, it's also possible to realise I AM through stroke ( ), through psychedelics (e.g. ram dass, leo gura, etc), and through many other various ways.

but i have not heard of any person who realised anatta through any of the above (including NDE). i think it's highly unlikely someone will realise anatta and emptiness suddenly at the time of death unless some master is giving direct pointing instructions at that time and the person is somehow ready to realise, or somehow for some reason the person is already quite well practiced in life and suddenly contemplates and realises it at the time of death. idk.

even for psychedelics, it just leads to I AM at most and other nondual peak experiences.

on psychedelics theres a youtube video john tan liked a lot:

also, excerpt from the

Session Start: Friday, 9 February, 2007

(11:40 AM) AEN: hi.. wats that book about? anyway that guy took LSD and became enlightened? lol

(11:41 AM) Thusness: he is pro-LSD. :)

(11:41 AM) Thusness: but anywhere mentioned he took LSD?

(11:41 AM) Thusness: it is an interesting topic though.

(11:41 AM) AEN:

(11:41 AM) Thusness: maybe a lil on that aspect.

(11:41 AM) AEN: huh

(11:44 AM) Thusness: i mean maybe i will discuss about a bit on that aspect. I did a lil study on LSD when Ram Dass someone I respected a lot was dismissed from Havard. :)

(11:44 AM) AEN: oo icic..

(11:47 AM) Thusness: did u summarized what i told u to do yesterday?

(11:47 AM) AEN: lol still remember this guy came to #buddhism last time and said something like hemp helps in enlightenment? lol

(11:47 AM) AEN: some hinduistic guy

(11:47 AM) AEN: oh haven yet :P

(11:47 AM) Thusness: go do it. :)

(11:47 AM) AEN: ok

(11:48 AM) Thusness: and relate global warming with the first para in the booklet. :)

(11:48 AM) Thusness: what do u think?

(11:48 AM) Thusness: be critical and state ur own view.

(11:48 AM) AEN: first para?

(11:48 AM) AEN: oh ok i go read

(11:48 AM) AEN: first para as in chapter one's first para ?

(11:48 AM) AEN: ok

Session Start: Friday, 9 February, 2007

(1:16 PM) AEN: oops haven quoted the website... lol later

Session Start: Saturday, 10 February, 2007

(11:44 PM) AEN: oh yes u said u wanted to share something about LSD

(12:00 AM) AEN: btw ask u ah... u said shamatha can lead to samadhi (subject object fuse into one) rite? but what is the relationship between samadhi and jhana? can u enter into jhana without samadhi, or enter into samadhi without jhana?

Session Start: Sunday, 11 February, 2007

(1:08 PM) Thusness: hmm...don't think i want to write about LSD in a forum.

(1:09 PM) AEN: o haha how come

(1:09 PM) Thusness: the reason is that it might mislead one into seeking altered state of consciousness by taking psychoactive drugs.

(1:09 PM) AEN: oic..

(1:10 PM) Thusness: even if I said we shouldn't, but some might not be able to resist the temptation and opt for a try.

(1:10 PM) Thusness: this is dangerous.

(1:10 PM) AEN: icic..

(1:11 PM) Thusness: jhana is a form of samadhi.

(1:11 PM) AEN: but actually these kind of psychedelics can lead to a state of witnessing?

(1:11 PM) AEN: oic

(1:11 PM) Thusness: yes.

(1:11 PM) Thusness: it is an altered state of consciousness

(1:11 PM) Thusness: i would say similar to astral plane

(1:12 PM) Thusness: not so much enlightenment.

(1:12 PM) Thusness: but very similar form of experience.

(1:12 PM) AEN: oic..

(1:12 PM) Thusness: as in the phase of "I AMness".

(1:12 PM) Thusness: the insight is restricted to that level.

(1:12 PM) AEN: icic..

(1:12 PM) Thusness: not the form of buddhist enlightenment

(1:12 PM) Thusness: but very intense.

(1:13 PM) AEN: hmm but alot of LSD users never realise 'I Amness' rite?

(1:13 PM) AEN: loo

(1:13 PM) AEN: *lol

(1:13 PM) AEN: oic..

(1:13 PM) Thusness: yeah...went high.

(1:13 PM) Thusness: but there is a group of users that use LSD for spiritual purpose.

(1:14 PM) AEN: icic..

(1:14 PM) Thusness: and some use it to enter a state of trance.

(1:14 PM) AEN: oic..

(1:14 PM) AEN: yea heard of it

(1:14 PM) Thusness: those tribes.

(1:14 PM) AEN: like shamans also ?

(1:14 PM) AEN: ya

(1:14 PM) Thusness: even those sheng2 da3

(1:14 PM) AEN: dharma dan also suggested its possible to use drugs

(1:14 PM) Thusness: and medium

(1:15 PM) Thusness: is it?

(1:15 PM) AEN: but he warned must be under guidance of an experienced teacher

(1:15 PM) Thusness: it is better not to mention.

(1:15 PM) AEN: and not really recommend

(1:15 PM) AEN: oic

(1:15 PM) Thusness: i think ppl will just try.

(1:15 PM) AEN: lol

(1:15 PM) Thusness: i hv no problem if it is use for one to experience the reality of consciousness.

(1:16 PM) AEN: oic

(1:16 PM) Thusness: seriously. I think it is okie in fact.

(1:16 PM) AEN: lol

(1:16 PM) AEN: icic

(1:16 PM) Thusness: to have a glimpse of the deeper essence is worth.

(1:16 PM) AEN: u try b4? :P

(1:16 PM) Thusness: many do not understand.

(1:16 PM) AEN: oic

(1:16 PM) Thusness: of course not. :)

(1:16 PM) Thusness: i don't need to. :)

(1:17 PM) AEN: lol icic

(1:17 PM) Thusness: many of the states that are described are being experienced by me.

(1:17 PM) AEN: oic

(1:17 PM) AEN: but anyway how can lsd help?

(1:17 PM) AEN: and also u said many ppl went high? if went high then cannot enter witnessing?

(1:17 PM) Thusness: just to allow one to understand the further dimension of consciousness.

(1:17 PM) AEN: oic

(1:17 PM) Thusness: they can.

(1:18 PM) Thusness: if they have certain background and understanding, it can lead to illumination.

(1:18 PM) AEN: icic

(1:18 PM) AEN: but only to stage 1-2?

(1:18 PM) Thusness: yeah

(1:18 PM) AEN: icic

(1:19 PM) Thusness: no way into stage 4 or 5.

(1:19 PM) Thusness: it is unlikely.

(1:19 PM) AEN: oic

(1:19 PM) Thusness: that has to do with insight.

(1:19 PM) AEN: icic

(1:19 PM) Thusness: and seen the illusoriness of background.

(1:19 PM) Thusness: without this, the pronounce state of clarity rest at the level of "I AM".

(1:20 PM) AEN: oic

(1:20 PM) Thusness: that is why non-dual is a very precious state.

(1:20 PM) Thusness: and one should work hard to thoroughly experience clarity of non-dual.

(1:20 PM) AEN: icic..

(1:20 PM) Thusness: by second door and emptiness.

(1:20 PM) AEN: oic

—> IMO, the same principle applies for those bardo beings


Update 2024, another NDE case that realised I AM during NDE:[0]=AZWw-zdTk1WU311FPpxfYGF3-VO0_Y-HCGVBsIjaRPEp-Bo8sSsQ3HKrQW32em8-f8PRafGQq60o__yiFnNqOz2UkCCFkHvkI8QLKi5YxW_GFX2iNzWRZBPQOaVKDSVrKwo&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R

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Soh Wei Yu
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William Lim
Yah lah, come back for what? Knee pain, back pain and heart pain 😂
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Soh Wei Yu
Lucky he come back. At least got chance to realise anatta and emptiness… can attain liberation. Else only stuck at I AM and recycle back in samsara 🤣 see:
I just emailed thusness seven stages to him.
Near Death Experiences and Bardo: Buddhist Dies and Spends an Eternity in the Light, then Comes Back to Share this Message
Near Death Experiences and Bardo: Buddhist Dies and Spends an Eternity in the Light, then Comes Back to Share this Message
Near Death Experiences and Bardo: Buddhist Dies and Spends an Eternity in the Light, then Comes Back to Share this Message
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William Lim
The Anatta Spammer Strikes Again!
Sim Pern Chong
Soh Wei Yu Yah... I AM level.. 'he' got no choice.. sure will propel/reborn back.
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Sim Pern Chong
William Lim I understand this NDE well. When 'i' meditated deep into the 'alaya' level.. (not that there is a seperate inherent level.. but .. due to lack of better way of expressing.).. i also see that the moment of thought of 'unfinished business'.. immediately propels into this current birth. Like what happened to him.. intention/imprint propels re-manifestation aka rebirth.
I fully understand his regret.. because the moment i came out of that deep meditate.. i was super angry with myself for stupidly reborning due to subject/object split and sense of unfinished business.
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