Original English Article: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2011/08/the-disease-of-non-conceptuality.html

Also See: (Korean) 그대로함/지나가는이의 깨달음의 일곱 단계 - Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment

Also See: (Korean) 아낫타(비자아), 공(空), 마하 및 평범함, 그리고 자연스러운 완성에 대하여 - On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection

Also See：(Korean) 무아의 다양한 정도: 무행위자, 비이원, 아나타, 일법구진, 그리고 함정 다루기 - Different Degrees of No-Self: Non-Doership, Non-dual, Anatta, Total Exertion and Dealing with Pitfalls

Also See: (Korean) 불성은 "I Am"이 아니다 - Buddha Nature is NOT "I Am"

번역 개선점이나 제안이 있으시면 연락 페이지를 방문하여 피드백을 공유해 주세요: 문의하기

다음 기사 중 번역이 필요하시다면 저에게 연락해 주세요. ChatGPT를 사용하여 번역을 도와드리겠습니다: 문의하기

ChatGPT: 

Certainly, here's the retranslation in Korean only, without the English text:

"비개념성의 병"

나는 Thusness가 쓴 몇 가지 글들을 되돌아보다가 많은 사람들(나 자신을 포함하여, 그리고 포럼에서 보는 많은 다른 사람들)의 문제점을 정말 잘 요약한 것을 발견했습니다...

Thusness: (2010년 10월 31일) 안녕하세요, 게이스,

다른 사람의 포럼에 대해 댓글을 달기가 '두렵습니다' 왜냐하면 그 후에 AEN이 그 포럼에서 대혼란을 일으킬 것이기 때문입니다...ㅋㅋ.

농담은 접어두고, 아나타(무아)의 통찰이 생겨났다고 말하기에는 아직 이르다고 생각합니다. 무아에 대한 성찰에서 나온 다음과 같은 경험들이 혼합되어 있고 명확하지 않은 것 같습니다:

비개념성에 머무르기

궁극적 주체로서 머무르기

현상의 단순한 흐름으로서 머무르기

첫 번째 경우, 수행자들은 '보이는 것은 주관적도 객관적도 아니라... 그냥 있는 그대로...'라고 봅니다. 경험적으로, 수행자들은 우주, 생명을 느낄 것입니다. 그러나 이것은 아나타가 아니라 정체성과 인격을 벗겨내는(해체하는) 결과일 뿐입니다.

비개념적 인식이 궁극적인 것으로 여겨질 때, "있는 그대로", "있음", "그러함"과 같은 용어들은 종종 '원시적인 현상'에 아무것도 더하거나 빼지 않고 비개념성에 머무르는 것을 의미하게 됩니다. 이런 경험에는 부작용이 있습니다. 비개념성에서는 비이중성이 가장 생생하고 명확하지만, 수행자들은 '개념'이 문제라고 잘못 결론짓을 수 있습니다. 왜냐하면 '개념'의 존재가 이중적 경험을 나누고 방해하기 때문입니다. 이것은 주관/객체 이분법에 깊이 뿌리박힌 마음에게만 합리적이고 타당해 보입니다. 매우 빠르게 '비개념성'은 수행의 대상이 됩니다. 대상화의 과정은 끊임없이 다른 형태로 반복되는 경향의 결과입니다. 이것은 수행자가 심지어 모르는 사이에 개념을 확립하는 것을 '두려워'할 정도로 계속될 수 있습니다. 그들은 견해와 개념의 형성을 막으려고 하면서 움직이지 못하게 됩니다. 우리가 '고통은 그냥 있는 그대로'라고 볼 때, 비개념성의 '병'에 빠지지 않도록 매우 주의해야 합니다.

두 번째 경우, 수행자들은 여전히 개인화, 구체화, 그리고 극히 미묘한 방식으로 형이상학적 본질을 추론하는 경향이 있습니다. 이것은 비이중적 깨달음에도 불구하고, 여전히 주관/객체 이분법에 기반한 관점에서 이해하기 때문입니다. 따라서 이런 경향을 감지하기 어렵고 수행자들은 '자아에 기반한 무아'에 대한 이해를 구축하는 여정을 계속합니다.

세 번째 경우의 수행자들은 아나타의 교리를 더 잘 이해할 수 있는 위치에 있습니다. 아나타의 통찰이 생겨나면, 모든 경험이 묵시적으로 비이중적이 됩니다. 그러나 통찰은 단순히 분리를 통해 보는 것이 아니라, 구체화를 철저히 끝내는 것입니다. 즉, '행위자'는 여분이며, 실제 경험에서는 존재하지 않는다는 것을 즉각적으로 깨닫습니다. 경험적 현실은 항상 그랬으며, 중심, 기초, 바탕, 근원의 존재는 항상 가정되어 왔습니다. 이것은 비개념성과 관련이 있지만, 변덕스러운 현상에서 행위자의 무존재를 '실제로' 보는 것과는 다릅니다.

여기서 수행자들은 첫 번째 경우와 같이 우주를 느끼는 것뿐만 아니라, 행위자가 사라졌기 때문에 우리의 태어난 권리인 자유를 즉각적으로 경험합니다. 수행자들이 '옳고 그름이 없고 원시적인 순수함에 머무른다'는 것을 자유로 오해하지 않는 것이 중요합니다; 그들은 비개념성에 의해 움직이지 못하게 되지 않고, 현상의 '생기고 사라짐'을 보고 그것이 해방적이라고 명확히 볼 수 있습니다. 왜냐하면 거기에 '보는 것을 방해하는' 영구적인 행위자가 없기 때문입니다. 즉, 수행자는 '경험이 무엇인지'뿐만 아니라 '경험의 본질'을 이해하기 시작합니다.

세 번째 경우의 깨달음을 성숙시키기 위해서는, 행위자의 부재에 대한 직접적인 경험만으로는 충분하지 않습니다; 관점의 전체적인 새로운 패러다임 변화가 필요합니다; 우리는 근원, 본질, 중심, 위치, 행위자 또는 조종자에 대한 아이디어, 필요성, 충동 및 경향에서 자유롭게 되어야 하며, 아나타와 연기에 전적으로 의지해야 합니다.

내 생각에는 "나는 누구인가"와 "내면의 잡담 진정시키기"에 대한 기사를 호스팅하는 블로그가 비이중성, 아나타, 공에 대한 보다 심오한 통찰력을 제공합니다. 저자는 '경험이 무엇인지'와 '경험의 본질(무상, 공, 조건에 따라 연기)'에 대해 매우 깊은 명확성을 보여줍니다.

그저 내 생각일 뿐입니다. :-)

Soh Wei Yu

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비개념성의 함정

또한 보세요: 비개념성의 병

저에게 있어, 개념성이 함정이라는 생각 자체가 오히려 정신적 수행의 잠재력을 고갈시키는 함정입니다. 결국, 사고도 현실의 일부이기 때문에 매우 유효한 경험의 차원을 버리는 것을 의미합니다. 그리고 이중성의 환상을 만드는 것이 사고이기 때문에, 환상은 사고의 수준에서 해체되어야 합니다. "현실"의 수준에서는 할 일이 없습니다.

"관찰하고 보라" [당신이 따른다고 말하는 유일한 지시]도 무언가를 하는 것입니다. 지시 없는 영적 길은 길이 아닙니다. 그리고 지시가 있는 순간, 모든 지시가 수행자에 따라 유효할 수 있습니다.

네오-아드바이타는 해방의 길과 수단에 대해 허무주의적인 경향이 있습니다. "아무도 없고, 할 일도 없다." 이는 경험의 본질에 대한 깊은 오해를 드러냅니다: 모든 것은 경험 속에서 일어나며, 행위자가 없어도 - 영적 길도 예외는 아닙니다.

"생각하지 않는" 단순함은 중요하고 성가신 질문을 던지지 못하게 하는 편안한 둥지입니다. 그러나 관찰 행위에는 "존재"가 있지만, 그 본질을 알기 위해서는 조사해야 합니다. 그렇지 않으면, 자아에 대한 믿음을 다른 것 - 변하지 않고 영원한 존재에 대한 믿음으로 대체하고 있습니다. 자아와 존재 모두 그것들을 확립한 이들에게는 분명하고 부인할 수 없습니다.

불교도 모든 개념을 해체하지만, 모든 개념을 해체하는 일이 끝날 때까지만 합니다. 개념성을 너무 일찍 "침묵시키는" 것은 벽(개념적 무지)을 넘어서기 위해 사용한 사다리(분석적 사고)를 너무 일찍 버리는 것과 같습니다.

– Andre A. Pais

비개념성의 함정

AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM

Also see: The Disease of Non-Conceptuality

Nicely explained 👍

Excerpt from https://www.byomakusuma.org/InterviewWithKhenchenRigdzinDorjeOnThe%20NyingmapaView.html

Khenpo: This debate is very old. A few centuries ago, some writers said that but now it’s over. Those who did not understand the exact view of Dzogchen used to say that. But according to Ha Shang, their view is that if you want to meditate, don’t think anything. Just keep your mind free from all thoughts, just keep it quiet. That is the perfect meditation. Then we can understand the perfect nature. But Dzogchen is not like that. It is the same as Madhyamika. (NB: And it has many skillful means ).

Ratnashree: So Dzogchen is not just being aware without thoughts or remaining in thoughtless non conceptual pure awareness but you have to know the nature?

Khenpo: Yes. Yes! It is not just that.

Ratnashre: Even in India, today we have many schools who say just remaining without thoughts, choice-less awareness, just awareness ( chidghana), pure awareness by itself ( chinmatra) etc. as the correct view. Many Western people think this is the same as 

Dzogchen. Do you agree?

Khenpo: Unless you have understood the nature of mind, just remaining thoughtless or choice less awareness is not Dzogchen. Remaining in the nature of mind is Dzogchen, not just remaining in thoughtless non conceptual awareness.

(NB: The Hindu Vedantic practice as advocated by perhaps the most respected and accepted Sri Sankaracharya (788 CE - 820 CE) instructs that the only way to enlightenment is to remain in the non dual, non conceptual awareness that is the watcher/witness/ knower ( advaita nirvikalpa drasta) which is one’s true identity ( Atman) and the only reality while everything else is an illusion. ‘ Brahman satyam jagan mithya’, i.e., Brahman the non dual and non conceptual awareness is the real truth while the Samsara is an illusion. This view was not created by Sri Sankaracharya around the 8 th century but already existed clearly in the Brihadaranyak Upanishad which is dated to be anytime from 800BC to 1200BC. In the Brihadaranyak Upanishad it says very clearly ‘Eko drastadvaito bhavati’ meaning ‘it is the one non dual awareness’ (Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV, 3. 32). Dolpopa’s( 1292 - 1361) Shentongview appears to be ditto with slight modifications of this Vedantic view as his main thesis is that thoughts are not Mahamudra, that Samsara is not Nirvana and that Samsara is an illusion which does not exist and is therefore empty. But the ultimate non dual awareness exists and is therefore not empty and can never be one with Samsara and by implication thoughts can never be Mahamudra as the Karma Kagyupa teaching says.

This view makes the whole of Buddhist Tantra which is the way of transformation impossible since Samsara, and by implication thoughts, the five aggregates, the 12 faculty gates and the sixteen constituents ( skandhadhatvayatanani) can never be transformed into the primordial wisdom or the five Buddhas. This view makes all of Buddhist Tantra irrelevant as Samsara which can never be indivisible with Nirvana because one is empty of real existence ( nisvabhava) and the other is not empty and really exists ( sat); can never be transformed into primordial wisdom and thoughts can never become Mahamudra.

This Hindu Vedantic type of thesis of Dolpopa contradicts the root Tantras like the Hevajra Root Tantra which says, ‘precisely this is known as Samsara, and precisely this is Nirvana itself. After rejecting Samsara, Nirvana will not be realized elsewhere.’ The two part Hevajra Tantra 2.4.38 states ‘ami Dharmas tu nirvanammohat samsararupina,’ meaning all these Dharmas ( Samsara) are Nirvana but because of delusion they appear as Samsara. Dolpopa’s view also contradicts the teachings of the Aryas (enlightened ones) of Jambudvipa like Arya Nagarjuna who says in his Magnum Opus the Mulamadhyamaka Karika, chapter 25, Nirvana Parikshya (examination of nirvana verses 19-20) ‘there is no special distinction of Samsara from Nirvana and there is no special distinction of Nirvana from Samsara. There is not the slightest difference between Nirvana and Samsara.’ Also, ‘you do not accept a Nirvana where Samsara has been rejected.’ In the Dharmadhatu Stava, it is said that ‘total transformation is explained as dharmakaya,’ therefore the question arises, what is totally transformed in the Shentong thesis of Dolpopa. If Samsara which is unreal cannot be transformed into Nirvana that is “really existing”, there is nothing to transform but only to realize the ever separate ultimate wisdom like the Hindu Brahman.

This is exactly the view of Sri Sankaracharya. It must also be clarified that these concepts were not taken by Sri Sankaracharya from the Mahasiddhas as some misinformed Buddhists would like to believe, but already existed in the Chandogya Upanishad and Brihadaryanaka Upanishad, dated from 800BC to 1200 BC by Ranade based on linguistic and ideological development and even earlier by some. These texts mention very clearly that Dwitiyam Nasti meaning there is no second but only this Brahman/Atman. And this is the Non dual Awareness/‘Eko drastadvaito bhavati’. All else is an illusion. Sankaracharya based himself on these Upanishads most of which were older than the Buddha himself and definitely did not learn these view from Buddhist Mahasiddhas, as some Western Shentongpas try to push forth.}

Ratnashree: So remaining only in the awareness, thoughtless, choiceless without knowing the nature of mind is the Ha Shangview?

Khenpo: Yes! That is what Kamalashila refuted about the Ha Shang. Kamalshila said that remaining in such a blank, thoughtless awareness is ignorance ( moha). You have to discriminate or distinguish the nature of mind, nature of phenomena.

(NB: This is exactly what Sakya Pandita meant when he refuted what he called hinese Dzogchen and said that due to cultivating this Moha/Ignorance predominated awareness state , it can become a means to be born either as a Naga or in the Formless Realm/Arupa Dhatu, which is something that every bodhisattva tries to avoid.This is avoided in modern Zen through Koans/Kung ans/ Kong answhich is a unique form of Vipashyana/Lhag thong within the Zen school. Even the Soto school which seems to lean towards remaining quietly in a thoughtless non conceptual mind does have what the founder of Japanese Soto School, Dogen Zenji (1200 - 1253), calls Genjo Koans or everyday Koans)

Ratnashree: So it is not enough to be just thoughtless, non conceptual?

Khenpo: No, being non conceptual, thoughtless is not enough. Even a small child is also concept free; Samadhi (one pointed absorption related to samatha) is also concept less, the unconscious state is also thoughtless, non conceptual, a piece of stone is also concept-less/thoughtless. That’s not the correct Dzogchen view. In Dzogchen teaching, the teacher asks the student where is the mind etc, and you should search, the same as in Madhyamika. There is no difference.

(NB: In Zen too the Master asks “show me your mind “and one has to “show” one’s mind to the Master after intensive searching and one is corrected if one is wrong in a typical Zen style)

Ratnashree: The main difference here is there must be Vipashayana. Without Lhagtong ( Vipashayana) togme (concept-less/non conceptual) is not enough?

Khenpo: Yes, that is not enough.

(NB: according to the Abhidharmic classification there are two types of avikalpa/tog me (non conceptual state), they are the anashrava avikalpa that is the non conceptual state free from the outflows or defilements and sashrava avikalpa, that is the non conceptual state withflows or defilements . Many people are hopelessly confused by the word “non conceptual” assuming that just being “non-conceptual” is enough. The Abhidharmika teachings make it clear that one cannot jump from defiled conceptual knowledge directly to undefiled non conceptual knowledge but rather one has to move from defiled conceptual knowledge to undefiled conceptual knowledge and from there to undefiled non-conceptual knowledge. The metaphor used is that a larva cannot fly directly but must first transform itself into a butterfly before it can fly into the sky of undefiled non conceptual knowledge. Vajragarbha the lord of the tenth bhumi in his commentery on the Hevajra Tantra called the Satasahasrika Hevajratika 1.51 says very clearly that in the beginning we go by using concepts to conceptual emptiness and finally to the non conceptual emptiness of all the Buddhist ‘adau vikalpadheto savikalpam sunyata phalam bhavet.ante cha sarva Bauddhanam akalpata sunyata phalam. ’There are many kinds of non conceptual states and experiences and they are not the same simply because they are non conceptual experiences. We can have a non conceptual experience of a sour lemon’s taste and also of a sugar candy. Simply because they are both direct non conceptual experiences they do not become the same. In the same way the non conceptual experience of the Brahman is definitely not the same as the non conceptual experience of Emptiness nor do they produce the same results.)

Also see: The Disease of Non-Conceptuality

Soh Wei Yu
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John Tan and I are "against" "don't know mind". In fact usually it refers to a state of marigpa (ignorance) called the indeterminancy of alaya. (see next post)
[14/5/18, 9:56:36 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Anyway she asked dae Kwang who let’s go
[14/5/18, 9:57:07 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Dae Kwang said precisely, he ask her back I think she said don’t know then he say correct, even Buddha’s don’t know, this don’t know is Buddha nature
[14/5/18, 9:57:22 AM] John Tan: Nonsense
[14/5/18, 9:57:42 AM] Soh Wei Yu: What nonsense?
[14/5/18, 9:58:01 AM] John Tan: Such half past six answers is not zen
[14/5/18, 9:58:08 AM] John Tan: Degraded
[14/5/18, 9:58:22 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oh but also he say
[14/5/18, 9:58:29 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Heart Sutra no eyes no nose no... etc
[14/5/18, 9:58:35 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Then he ask what is no eyes
[14/5/18, 9:58:48 AM] Soh Wei Yu: He ask someone he doesn’t know
[14/5/18, 9:58:53 AM] Soh Wei Yu: He say wall is white
[14/5/18, 9:59:46 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Seung sahn always emphasise don’t know
[14/5/18, 9:59:50 AM] Soh Wei Yu: I think it’s just non conceptuality
[14/5/18, 9:59:55 AM] Soh Wei Yu: I mean the don’t know part
[14/5/18, 9:59:57 AM] John Tan: I know
[14/5/18, 10:00:29 AM] John Tan: This is a disease rather than wisdom
[14/5/18, 10:01:44 AM] John Tan: What "don't know" points to is "non-conceptual" functioning.
[14/5/18, 10:03:30 AM] John Tan: Lack of investigation and stable insights we will not be able to distinguish stable insights of non-conceptual functioning from "conceptual releasing".
[14/5/18, 10:04:20 AM] John Tan: Originally I wanted to tell tan jui Hong but dun want to talk too much.
[14/5/18, 10:05:11 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[14/5/18, 10:05:35 AM] Soh Wei Yu: I think u shld tell jui.. anyway jui has realised anatta I think might be into total exertion but not sure
[14/5/18, 10:06:15 AM] John Tan: Next time
[14/5/18, 10:06:21 AM] John Tan: Is he Singaporean
[14/5/18, 10:09:06 AM] John Tan: Freeing from reified constructs is a whole new world of practice. That is "don't know mind" starts from there.
[14/5/18, 10:14:26 AM] Soh Wei Yu: U mean jui?
[14/5/18, 10:14:31 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Ya jui is singaporean, u met before
[14/5/18, 10:14:37 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[14/5/18, 10:14:37 AM] John Tan: Yes
[14/5/18, 10:14:40 AM] John Tan: Ic
[14/5/18, 10:23:21 AM] John Tan: Also understanding reified constructs and experiencing reified constructs in oneself is the most crucial aspect.
[14/5/18, 10:24:31 AM] John Tan: That is the first part of an anatta is key to understanding grasping.
[14/5/18, 10:25:25 AM] John Tan: Only when we understand constructs and reification, can we understand grasping.
[14/5/18, 10:27:23 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[14/5/18, 10:27:49 AM] John Tan: So understanding mental constructs r very imp
[14/5/18, 10:28:11 AM] John Tan: That includes the energy and mind-body reactions
[14/5/18, 10:32:53 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
‎[14/5/18, 10:46:32 AM] Soh Wei Yu: ‎image omitted
[14/5/18, 10:46:43 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Overemphasize non conceptual I think
[14/5/18, 10:48:17 AM] John Tan: That is lack of insight and investigation
[14/5/18, 10:49:16 AM] John Tan: Means due to lack of working with conceptual mind, the "reasons" and the "way" isn't appropriately expressed
[14/5/18, 10:49:33 AM] John Tan: There is the beauty of mathematics
[14/5/18, 10:49:59 AM] John Tan: Like calculus to understand complex movement and rate of change
[14/5/18, 10:51:03 AM] John Tan: There is glendin that can express total exertion and anatta properly.
[14/5/18, 10:51:52 AM] John Tan: There r energies, prana, awareness teachings of functionality not due to "conceptualities"
[14/5/18, 10:54:06 AM] John Tan: What just "don't know mind". By doing that, he has caused confusion in himself and others due to lack of investigation. The way of non-conceptual function is not to be solved by mind.
[14/5/18, 11:13:12 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic.. not to be solved by the mind but by what way?
[14/5/18, 11:15:23 AM] John Tan: By the "don't know mind" they r talking
[14/5/18, 11:15:37 AM] John Tan: The problem is they do not know
[14/5/18, 11:15:39 AM] John Tan: Lol
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http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../the-disease-of...

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The Disease of Non-Conceptuality
The Disease of Non-Conceptuality
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On how "Don't Know Mind" is actually a state of ma-rigpa (or at most the coarse form of unripened rigpa), Mipham Rinpoche puts it nicely:
https://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan.../mipham/mipham-lamp
quote: "In this, there is not any of the clear insight of vipaśyanā, which discerns things precisely, and so the masters call it marigpa (“non-recognition, ignorance, unknowing”). Since you cannot define it and say “This is what it’s like”, or “This is it!” such a state is called lungmaten (“undecided, indeterminate”). And since you cannot say what kind of state it is you are resting in, or what your mind is thinking, it is also called tha mal tang nyom (“an ordinary state of apathetic indifference”). In fact, you are stuck in an ordinary state within the ālaya."
Contra rigpa (knowledge): "Although there is no dualistic separation here between an experience and an experiencer, still the mind is certain about its own true nature, and there is a sense that, “There is nothing whatsoever beyond this.” When this occurs, because you can not conceptualize it or express it in words, it is acceptable to apply such terms as: “free from all extremes”, “beyond description”, “the fundamental state of clear light” and “the pure awareness of rigpa.”
As the wisdom of recognizing your own true nature dawns, it clears away the blinding darkness of confusion, and, just as you can see clearly the inside of your home once the sun has risen, you gain confident certainty in the true nature of your mind."

LOTSAWAHOUSE.ORG
A Lamp to Dispel Darkness
A Lamp to Dispel Darkness
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And likewise, Tsoknyi Rinpoche and many other teachers pointed out that rigpa is marked by certainty. I have said likewise in my journal.
http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../absolute-certainty...
Absolute Certainty
"First, acknowledging it is called recognizing one's nature. Next, we must be decisive about what is recognized. This is more complicated, because who really decides? Is it conceptual mind that settles it? Or is it rigpa itself that decides? or is it your teacher who makes up your mind - "The guru said so, so it must be true"? Or will modern technology validate it for you? Could you go to the Rigpa Lab and check your heart and brain with instruments to decide if your rigpa is fine and fit, if your nonduality is in good shape?
How do you resolve this point? It may be tough to have to immediately endorse your own experience, but we can decide upon it if we feel even 60 percent confident that it's actually rigpa. As the basis for verifying, we use our teacher's words, the words of an authentic scripture, and our own experience. When our state of experiencing rigpa really is rigpa, there is within that an automatic feeling of certainty. To arrive at that certainty you need to give some time to the process, and you also need to have passion. There is a point at which the certainty is built-in, automatic certainty. Once we get to this natural, unshakable certainty, we feel so sure that even if the Buddha himself came before us and said, "Hey, you're wrong, it's not rigpa!" we would thank him for coming, but it would not change our certainty at all. At a certain point the qualities of empty essence, cognizant nature, and unconfined capacity become so utterly obvious that we really know. At this point, we have gained the certainty that whatever occurs in our minds can be freed by itself."
- Tsoknyi Rinpoche, Fearless Simplicity: The Dzogchen Way of Living Freely in a Complex World
Labels: Tsoknyi Rinpoche |

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Absolute Certainty
Absolute Certainty
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And likewise John Tan said in the quote above,
"I think I mentioned I am not into without view. The freeing from seeing through self is not a form of "not knowing", contrary it is deep wisdom that allows one to understand our nature directly.”"
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"However due to ignorance, we have a very inherent and dual view, if we do see through the nature of presence, the mind continues to be influenced by dualistic and inherent tendencies. Many teach to overcome it through mere non conceptuality but this is highly misleading." - http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../anatta-and-pure...

AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
Anatta and Pure Presence
Anatta and Pure Presence
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[30/9/17, 10:50:32 PM] Soh Wei Yu: The he Say open mouth already wrong. Cut off thinking.. then he use the Zen stick hit the floor.. is the mind and The hit same or different? Answer is just hit. No inside outside etc.. where you come from.. where does the one return to etc. All just hit. But after the interview I hear they discussing among themselves do u understand? They all just shrug, dunnu what the Teacher talking about
[30/9/17, 10:55:20 PM] John Tan: Zen is a non verbal expression of suchness
[30/9/17, 10:56:00 PM] John Tan: Attending to express in the most direct and intuitive way the actualization of anatta
[30/9/17, 10:57:05 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
[30/9/17, 10:57:12 PM] John Tan: But the extreme of it is the insight will prevent further insights
[30/9/17, 10:57:45 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Cos falling into non conceptual disease?
[30/9/17, 10:58:32 PM] John Tan: And actualization is on-going...After the koan an, one has to mature oneself to embrace both side of the coins...
[30/9/17, 10:59:12 PM] Soh Wei Yu: What are the both sides?
[30/9/17, 10:59:21 PM] Soh Wei Yu: View and nondual experience?
[30/9/17, 10:59:37 PM] John Tan: Yes
[30/9/17, 10:59:52 PM] John Tan: Non-verbal direct experience is important
[30/9/17, 11:00:05 PM] John Tan: Only the over emphasis is the issue
[30/9/17, 11:00:17 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[30/9/17, 11:01:52 PM] John Tan: Too much emphasis on just non-verbal stuff will prevent one from further insights into our nature as the mind can't clearly see
[30/9/17, 11:02:59 PM] John Tan: But too much analysis and thinking is a grave obstruction to energy and intuitive felt sense practice
[30/9/17, 11:03:05 PM] John Tan: Have to balance
[30/9/17, 11:16:37 PM] John Tan: Sat chit Ananda can b a very refined stage too
[30/9/17, 11:16:54 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Like different stages of I amness?
[30/9/17, 11:17:04 PM] John Tan: Yes
[30/9/17, 11:17:16 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
[30/9/17, 11:17:58 PM] John Tan: Just don't like to say I hv experience this and that...lol. ... Too old to go into debate anymore...
[30/9/17, 11:18:09 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Lol
[30/9/17, 11:19:46 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Just now he ask the question what is the one clear thing beyond life and death even before interview.. then I sat on the question and just experienced blissful being ness. Like beingness is blissful... actually anything nondual is blissful that’s why breathing can also be incredibly blissful
[30/9/17, 11:21:27 PM] John Tan: Yes but u R in anatta or total exertion or non-obstruction self arising phenomenon
[30/9/17, 11:21:42 PM] John Tan: Or in silence?
[30/9/17, 11:22:05 PM] John Tan: Or in non-dual awareness?
[30/9/17, 11:22:14 PM] John Tan: All are non dual
[30/9/17, 11:22:19 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Lol
[30/9/17, 11:22:57 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Depends on the question I think, like before birth who am I leads to more like silent being, just mind
[30/9/17, 11:23:22 PM] John Tan: Just I M
[30/9/17, 11:23:46 PM] John Tan: fully into beingness
[30/9/17, 11:25:09 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ya
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