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Thusness: The tata is very good. The Stainless is also good but just to be picky... the 'it' must be eliminated... stainlessness is the ungraspable of the arising and passing phenomena. Without essence and locality of any arising... nothing 'within or without it'. All the expressions in what you quoted are excellent. And all those phases of insight is to get you to what's being expressed. And all those phases of insights are to get you to what that is being expressed in the tata and stainless articles. It is the place where anatta and emptiness become obsolete. Put this in the blog... great expression.
John Tan also told me before my anatta realisation:
Thusness: You never experience anything unchanging. In later phase, when you experience non-dual, there is still this tendency to focus on a background... and that will prevent your progress into the direct insight into the TATA as described in the tata article. And there are still different degree of intensity even you realized to that level.
AEN: Non-dual?
Thusness: tada (an article) is more than non-dual... it is phase 5-7.
AEN: I see...
Thusness: It is all about the integration of the insight of anatta and emptiness. Vividness into transience, feeling what I called 'the texture and fabric' of Awareness as forms is very important, then come emptiness. The integration of luminosity and emptiness.
Dharma Talk Presented by Ven. Jinmyo Renge osho Dainen-ji, October 24th, 2009
People have all kinds of expectations, not only about how their lives will be, but how today will be, or how this moment will be. But reality is not an idea. It is what it is. Tada.
In the colder autumn air, the trees are changing colour and fallen leaves line the gutters of the streets. And seeing this, we know winter is coming. But although most of us sitting here today have seen this happen again and and again, year after year after year, we don't really know what the cold of winter will actually be like. We have memories of cold fingers, the sound of snow crunching underfoot, memories of having to put on many layers to protect ourselves from an icy wind. But memories of cold are not the reality of cold. It is what it is and we will know cold when it is...cold. Tada. And now, before the snow comes, we see the colour fading from our immediate world as the trees lose their leaves and bare branches stand out black against a graying sky. And mixed into, and swirling along with the leaves in the street, are discarded paper cups, gum wrappers, used Kleenex and the odd sandwich wrapper. All swirling in the wind. Is it beautiful? Is it ugly? Neither. Is it good or bad? Neither. It is Tada.
"Tada" is a Japanese word that means "Just, exactly, of course, just as it is." It is sometimes, as in the Teachings of Eihei Dogen zenji and Anzan Hoshin roshi, used as a synonym for the more techincal term "immo" or "tathata" in Sanskrit, which means Suchness. Suchness is the reality of all dharmas, all things or experiences. The "actual nature" is another technical term for this. It means that each thing is sunya or empty of all of our ideas about and knowledge of anything, that it is impermanent, that it is the radiance of the Luminosity of experience.
Impermanence is so blatantly obvious. We see our grandparents die, and as we ourselves age,we see our parents die. We see other people around us die. We know that all around the world countless people die every day. But when someone close to us dies, we are so surprised. We are surprised when our relationships change, when the economy changes, when our environment changes and we are surprised that we have to change and that what we do has to change because of these changes. We are surprised when we become sick, surprised when we let things slide and difficulty ensues. And most of this surprise is due to a conflict that comes about when our ideas about reality do not match up with what reality actually is. Reality is Tada: Things as they actually are. Suchness. Tada.
That itch behind your ear? Tada. That's it. The sensation of your hands resting in the mudra? That's it. The moisture you feel on your tongue? That's it. The movement of the breath? Just as it is. The form of the person sitting next to you? That's it. The release in your neck and spine when you straighten your posture? That's it. The sound of my voice and the quiet pauses between words? Exactly so. In the moment of Waking up from a thought, the recognition that streaming thoughts that can never settle on any one definitive "truth" because all that they can ever be is a continuously changing streaming? That's it. Tada.
The details of each thing stand out clearly and distinctly just as they are and experiencing is new and fresh, moment-to- moment. There is no need to embellish, to ponder, to strategize or hold on to anything whatsoever because each thing that is known is simply being known as detail arising within the Knowing of it. Tada. So simple.
But, of course, if you let attention narrow and focus, the distortion that focusing will produce is far from simple. We make such a big deal out of our stuff....
We can make a big deal out of a yawn: "Y-AAAAAAAAAAAAA-W-N".
Out of a sneeze "Ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-Choo!"
Out of a sensation "I have a....headache"; "I'm tired", "My knee hurts".
Out of a feeling tone (whiny, plaintive voice) "Oh but I thought I was supposed to....". "But you told me..."
Out of a stance "I'm right and I know I'm right and that's all there is to it".
Out of a petty memory: "I remember when you did that thing and how it made me feel and I will never, ever forgive you".
We can make a huge deal out of having to get up in the morning.
Out of having to go to bed at night.
Out of having to eat when it is time to eat.
Out of having to go to work.
Out of having to wait for a bus,
Out of which seat we get on the bus,
Out of simply having to sit down or stand up.
We make a big deal over the simplest of tasks.
Before we do them: "Ugh I have to do yada".
While we are doing them: "Ugh, when is this going to be finished?"
And even after we've done them "I did SUCH a good job of that. Never has such a good job been done of that thing by anyone, anywhere, and everyone else should acknowledge that."
We make a big deal of how we look at other people and how they look at us because we think it all "MEANS" something. It "MEANS" something about "ME".
"I am so sad. Look at my mournful eyes, so deep and full of feeling".
"I am so angry, look how I GLARE at you". (that one can be pretty funny).
"I am sick, look how haggard I am, how near death I am".
Just stop with the "yada yada yada." Just tada. Just practise.
But we can make a big deal out of anything and everything, including our practice. We can make such a big bloody deal out of being mindful that instead of just practising it's ME practising. Tadaaaaaaaa!
But that's the wrong kind of tada. The richness, the dignity, the intimacy of our experience just as it is, without all of our fabrications and contractions and manipulations is inconceivable. It is literally and completely beyond concepts and ideas and stories. In order to realize this, we need to just let go of our habits of attention in all of the ways they are manifested by body and mind.
The Roshi has pointed out that a sense of a "me" is more directly and basically a "sense of locatedness" and that along with it there is a directionality, as it can seem to us that attention moves from a central point, a "me", out and towards experiences. When this sense of locatedness first begins to form, it is the wordless presumption that knowing moves from "here" to "there" in order to know. And yet, this sense of locatedness as a self can itself be known and so obviously cannot be a "knower" or a "self". It is a freezing or crystallization of attention which is much like a frame and from this frame, attention seems to move out and towards what is known. This is why instead of just practising, it can seem to us that there is a "ME" that is practising.
In Rhythm and Song, a series of teisho on Dongshan Liangjie daiosho's text the Hokyo Zanmai, Anzan roshi recounts many mondo-kien or encounter dialogues between Great Master Dongshan and his students. One student was Xuefeng, who much later became a great Teacher after receiving Transmission from Deshan who unlike Dongshan did not mind beating students with his staff. But while he was studying with Dongshan, Xuefeng was still full of himself and full of ideas about Suchness and emptiness. Here is one story:
Once Xuefeng was carrying a bundle of firewood. When he arrived in front of the Master, he threw the bundle down.
The Master asked, "How heavy is it?"
Xuefeng said, "No one in the world can lift it!"
Dongshan asked, "Then how did it get here?"
Xuefeng didn't know what to say.
Poor Xuefeng. What a tool. He was a tool because he was trying to use everything around him as equipment to aggrandize himself. Even a bundle of firewood. Even the simple act of carrying it. For him even samu, caretaking practice, was about the profundity of his idea of his understanding of emptiness. What a tool.
In Rhythm and Song, Anzan Hoshin roshi calls out to us from what all of the Buddhas and Awakened Ancestors of our Lineage have realized and practised,
Intimacy is revealed when we release. We release when we realize that there is nowhere apart from us that we can drop away all of the things about ourselves that we wish were not the case; all of the thoughts and feelings and strategies that at times we are so tired of, and at others, so convinced of.
It is not as simple as that.
It is much, much, easier than that.
It is the simplest thing.
Nothing is true about us. Our nice thoughts do not make us nice. Our devious thoughts do not make us devious. Our bad thoughts do not make us bad.
A thought cannot make anything.
There is nowhere to hide because there is no need to hide.
There is nothing that is true 'about' us because we are that which is true. We are that which presents itself everywhere as everything and yet is itself nowhere at all, no thing at all.
You are this deep intimacy.
Where have you been?
So please join me in not just saying, but in actually being: Tada.
「我是在告訴你,第一和第二首偈頌必須齊頭並進,即使在開始時才能對無我有真正的洞見。你必須在無我中有這兩個方面的洞見。那麼什麼是無我?這意味著當你參透無主宰者時,你實際上是在發展你的直接洞見。那不是將任何額外的東西實體化。那是對真如的直接洞見。因此,當你看到『大我』(Self)時,除了五蘊別無他物。當你看到『天氣』時,只有變化著的雲、雨……當你看到『身體』時,你看到不斷變化的感受。當你聽到聲音時,你看到緣起(DO),然後你會看到人我空和法我空(2 fold emptiness)如何僅僅是同一個洞見,以及為什麼那會導致一合相(yi4 he2 xiang4; one totality/composite of appearance)。如果沒有洞見卻執著於言詞,那麼你就錯失了精髓。也就是說,獲得關於這兩首偈頌的洞見不僅僅是為了思考『自我』(Self)」 - John Tan, 2011
對話 — 2020 年 7 月 27 日
John Tan:對我來說,能-作-所(主體-行為-客體)範式僅僅是一個用來幫助表達和理解世界的結構。我不那樣看。我視其為顯現-條件的一法究盡,而不是顯現和條件。
Soh Wei Yu:你指的是 TD Unmanifest 嗎?
John Tan:是的。如果你視客體與主體分離,或者視現象與心分離,無論你如何解構,都只是一種知識。你不會有對任何東西的直接品嘗。當然,沒有辦法知曉所有涉及的條件。僅僅是說明顯現不是憑空而生的。當你經歷解構能知與所知(能與所)的過程時,也有一種空廓感……那種體驗就像身心脫落。當你說,車是空的,但你正坐在裡面……你到底想表達什麼?這和『無風,僅有吹』是一樣的……或者閃電在閃……或者春去夏來……意思是把同樣的洞見應用於萬事萬物。不僅僅是自我……甚至包含運動。所以當你的心始終在看透種種概念構建時,發生了什麼?告訴我當你說車是空的但你卻坐在上面時。你看透了那一層構念,然後怎樣?當你看透正呼嘯的風時……如何?當你看透夏季或天氣時?會怎樣?或者我說閃電在閃,當你真正看透那道閃電時……
Soh Wei Yu:只剩下純粹的顯現……沒有任何實體化。
John Tan:別去思考,直接體驗……這會把你逼進非概念狀態。就像 PCE 的體驗一樣……事實上當你開始時非常充滿正念且警覺……你開始真切地感到那股吹動……對吧……當我說沒有閃電在閃時……你注視那閃爍。對嗎?你是否真的加以修持或留心體察,而不僅僅隨口說一句……當你說沒有夏天時,你分明正體驗著炙熱、潮濕……等等。意思是:雖然你看穿了概念構建,但你不能只是思考。當我說沒有車時,我觸摸這輛車……它的質地……顏色……皮革,輪胎……如果你持續、無間斷地保持這種方式……發生了什麼?你在談論對客體和現象的解構,而我要告訴你——若真正看穿它們,會發生什麼……如果你只是思考,你是無法明白的……
然而這並不意味著無我的第二首偈頌比第一首偈頌更重要。事實上,在喚醒了無我的第二首偈頌,即作為超越了能-作-所(主體-行為-客體)範式的所有顯現的清澈光明之後,深入探究第一首偈頌至關重要。正如 John Tan 所說,一個人不應總是強調臨在[後無我],而應強調那光明的本質。同樣,當我們向人們談論無我時,不僅要談論那光明的臨在,還要談論無造作者。
一切自然生起,沒有造作者或主宰者,就像呼吸和心跳一樣自然。徹底穿透這點,做到完全地自發、毫不費力和釋放。自然的光明是完全毫不費力的,根本不需要付出絲毫努力。讓深入對無我和空性的洞見帶你進入自行解脫和自然圓滿,並消解努力的病態以及對光明的微細過度專注或執著。正如 John Tan 之前也說過的,重要的是不要過度強調光明(以免引起能量失衡的不適感),而且它必須用非造作者的第一首偈頌來補充。他補充說,在非二元之後,個人的修習必須是放鬆和開放的、無實質的、自由的——自然而開放、輕盈、放鬆、毫不費力,然後對毫不費力進行參究。開放和放鬆應該在修習中建立起一種動能。此外,正如 John Tan 所說,我們必須理解無造作者和一法究盡之間的關係——允許各種情況的整體徹底展現其自身。從硬幣的一面看,它是光明的完全「毫不費力」,從另一面看,它是對所有條件的徹底展現。
John Tan 之前也警告過,「你需要非常深地切入空性或無主宰者,以防止未來的問題。這意味著你必須真正克服自我感;否則,你人生的後期會出現問題。你必須修習直到作為主體覺知的自我感被充分解構,至少解構到一種沒有主宰者的狀態。否則,你無法取得進一步進展。如果你不這樣做,你以後可能會面臨比[某個經歷了可怕能量失衡的人]所經歷的還要糟糕的問題。還記得我告訴過你的關於 Actual Freedom 社區的 Richard 嗎?
John Tan 也說道:「由工作、身體外貌或缺乏家庭支持等引起的抑鬱症,與比方說那些關於『我是』的問題之間存在很大差異。所有那些與外貌、工作壓力或學習等相關的焦慮,如果相應的問題得到解決,就會逐漸消散。但是有一些像『我是』這樣的問題,也就是你的第一個直接念頭,如此親密、如此直接,這些是不容易『擺脫』的。」
「當身體還沒有準備好時,有些(能量失衡)可能與某些能量脈輪的打開有關。」
對話 — 2024 年 6 月 6 日
John Tan 說:"是的,不要讓世俗的成就阻礙了一個人的修習,是的,無我僅僅是開始。一旦我們將顯現認出為自身的光明,我們就必須窮盡心與現象。雖然我不是大圓滿或大手印的修行者,但我能理解並直覺到,完全實現無我的自然狀態,也是非常類似於虹光身那樣的結果的。"
Soh Wei Yu 說:"我明白了……"
John Tan 說:"事實上,在一定程度上窮盡了心智的實體化造作之後,我們就不那麼執著於世俗了,並且非常被吸引去將我們的整個身心窮盡於光明的明亮中。我不知道別人怎樣,但這發生在了我身上。這發生在你身上了嗎?"
Soh Wei Yu 說:"是的,我想是的。"
John Tan 說:"在這個階段,毫不費力、無為和不抗拒是非常關鍵的,因為只要心去反應或去專注,能量就會增強,而且常常會導致能量失衡。"
"If in a dream you see a light appearing, brighter than the sun, it means your remaining habits are suddenly exhausted, and the nature of the Dharma Realm is seen. If this happens, it is the cause of achieving the Way. Only you know this; you cannot tell others.
Or if while walking, standing, sitting, or lying in a quiet grove, you see a light—whether large or small—do not tell anyone, and do not grasp at it. It is simply the light of your own Self-nature.
Or if while walking, standing, sitting, or lying in the darkness of night, you see a light as clear as day, do not find it strange; it is your own mind desiring to reveal itself.
Or if in a dream at night you see the stars and moon clearly, this indicates that the various causal conditions of your own mind are about to cease; likewise, do not tell others.
But if your dreams are confused and dim, just like walking in darkness, it signifies that the afflictions and obstructions of your own mind are heavy. This is also something you will know for yourself."
Note: This is just a general introduction to the purpose of Koan. If you wish to work on Koan, find a deeply realized and qualified Zen teacher and work with him/her. – Soh
Q&A: Are Koans a Good Practice for Stage 1?
Someone asked: “Are koans a good practice for stage 1? Or just self-inquiry?”
Soh replied:
If you wish to train in Zen koans, you should find a qualified and awakened Zen master to train under.
There are many classes of koans. Self-inquiry is one of the classes of koan, for beginners to have the initial realization of I AM. This is crucial in Zen too.
Someone told me about having been through insights of no-self and then progressing to a realization of the ground of being.
Soh: Hi [Name],
Thanks for the sharing.
This is the I AM realization. I had that realization after contemplating “Before birth, who am I?” for two years. It’s an important realization. Many people had insights into certain aspects of no-self, impersonality, and “dry non-dual experience” without doubtless realization of Presence. Therefore I AM realization is a progression for them.
Similarly in Zen, asking “Who am I?” is to directly experience presence. How about asking a koan of “What is the cup?” What is the chirping bird, the thunder clap? What is its purpose?
When I talked about anatta, it is a direct insight of Presence and recognizing what we called background presence is in the forms and colors, sounds and sensations, clean and pure. Authentication is to be authenticated by all things. Also there is no presence other than that. What we call background is really just an image of foreground Presence, even when Presence is assuming its subtle formless all-pervasiveness.
However, due to ignorance, we have a very inherent and dual view; if we do see through the nature of presence, the mind continues to be influenced by dualistic and inherent tendencies. Many teach to overcome it through mere non-conceptuality, but this is highly misleading.
Thusness also wrote:
The anatta I realized is quite unique. It is not just a realization of no-self. But it must first have an intuitive insight of Presence. Otherwise will have to reverse the phases of insights.
Labels: Anatta, Luminosity
On Zen Koans (2009)
John Tan: Yes Emanrohe,
That is precisely the question asked by Dogen: “If our Buddha Nature is already perfect, why practice?” This question continues to bother him even after the initial glimpse and that led him to China in search for the answer that eventually awakened his wisdom into the non-dual nature of Awareness.
Therefore we must understand that in the Zen tradition, different koans were meant for different purposes. The experience derived from the koan “before birth who are you?” only allows an initial glimpse of our nature. It is not the same as Hakuin’s koan of “what is the sound of one hand clapping?” The five categories of koan in Zen range from hosshin that gives the practitioner the first glimpse of ultimate reality to five-ranks that aims to awaken the practitioner to the spontaneous unity of relative and absolute (non-duality).
Only through thorough realization of the non-dual nature (spontaneous unity of relative and absolute) of Awareness can we then understand why there is no split between subject and object as well as seeing the oneness of realization and development. Therefore the practice of natural state is for those that have already awakened to their non-dual nature, not just an initial glimpse of Awareness. The difference must be clearly understood. It is not for anyone and it is advisable that we refrain from talking too much about the natural state. The “natural” way is in fact the most challenging path; there is no shortcut.
On the other hand, the gradual path of practice is a systematic way of taking us step by step until we eventually experienced the full non-dual and non-local nature of pristine awareness. One way is by first firmly establishing the right view of anatta (non-dual) and dependent origination and practice vipassana or bare attention to authenticate our experience with the right view. The gradual paths are equally precious; that is the point I want to convey.
Lastly there is a difference between understanding Buddha Nature and God. Not to let our initial glimpse of pristine awareness overwhelm us. :-)
Edited by Thusness 05 May `09, 10:35PM
View, Path, and Fruition (2009)
Thusness: Ha… this is a very late reply and yes what you said is very true.
It is difficult to have someone that is so-trained academically and scientifically to provide us such deep insight in the spiritual discipline. The article is very clear, well structured and organized. We should learn how to treasure good stuff. :)
I will just jot down some of my thoughts after reading it.
Although much is mentioned in the article about divided consciousness, the ‘strength’ of making a practitioner sink back to a divided consciousness is overlooked. We should never underestimate the power of this bond. That is, given a 1,000 practitioners that have sufficient glimpses of the pristine-ness or even awaken to the non-dual nature of Awareness, the tendency for these practitioners to fall back to ’divided consciousness’ remains surprisingly strong. Why despite all the blissful experiences, the tendency to fall back to a divided state continues to be powerfully strong? In transpersonal psychology, holotropic breathwork is one technique that deals with the deeply held bond of the subconscious and unconscious mind. Unleashing these deeply held bonds can cause transpersonal experiences that include communication with mythic deities, recalling past life memories, OBEs and memories of perinatal events. Regardless of whether these experiences are delusional or hallucinatory, we must not overlook the vast impact of ‘bonds’ on consciousness.
Next, I will just touch a little on the importance of the relationship between the view, path and fruition as I think to experience the therapeutic effect from a particular form of practice, “syncing” the view, path and fruition is crucial. The significance of the relationship surfaced while I was reading this article and was triggered by your question 2 days back about whether Genpo Roshi is talking about anatta in this video.
While Dr. John Welwood outlined the different path of practices from pre-reflective identification, to the practice of conceptual reflection, to pure witnessing, to transformation and self-liberation, his focus is mainly on the aspect of how direct and effective each method is in narrowing the gap of subject-object duality. To me it is more important to have clarity on the exact experiential fruition that can be derived from adopting a particular view and path of practice.
For example if someone were to ask will dissolving ‘personality’ result in a non-dual experience? We need to know what the experience of “impersonality” is like and what methods of practice that will lead to the experience of “impersonality” and the role “impersonality” plays in non-dual presence.
To illustrate, let’s take the question you asked about Genpo Roshi. There is no doubt that Genpo Roshi is speaking about anatta -- “there is witnessing, there is no witness”. However the ‘path’ he uses is clearly a ‘desync’ from his ‘views’ of anatta. He uses a ‘stepping back witnessing method’ which is essentially a reflective process; frankly using the “stepping back technique” to experience anatta is quite contradicting and can be counter-productive. I must say it is not an effective way to bring about an experiential non-dual insight of anatta.
In Zen tradition, different koans were meant for different purposes. For example the experience derived from the koan “before birth who are you?” is not the same as the Hakuin’s koan of “what is the sound of one hand clapping?” The five categories of koan in Zen ranges from hosshin that gives the practitioner the first glimpse of ultimate reality to five-ranks that aims to awaken the practitioner to the spontaneous unity of relative and absolute.
Similarly different techniques can also be devised to allow a practitioner to experience the different qualities of Awareness. The experience of “impersonality” is not the same as the experience of the “pristineness” of our nature; the experience of “oneness” is also not the same experience as spontaneity; the experience of non-dual without a subject and object split does not necessarily result in the thorough insight of anatta; the experience of anatta is also not the same experience when a practitioner thoroughly sees the emptiness nature of phenomena. Thus, the master that prescribes the medicine must have deep clarity and wisdom of the view, path, fruition and conditions of the students. It is not a one-for-all sort of medicine.
Lastly no one religion has monopoly over Truth much less a tradition. The techniques of spontaneous perfection in Mahamudra and self-liberation in Dzogchen that are described by Dr. John Welwood will naturally be realized by a Zen practitioner that passes the five-rank koan. Even in the basic teachings of Buddha, as long as we have complete and thorough insight of anatta and the principle of Dependent Origination, practitioners will also naturally enter the pathless path of self-liberation. :)
Further Quotes by John Tan
John Tan: Alejandro, I would separate non-arisen and emptiness from the luminosity. IMO, it's a separate pointing. The one hand clapping here directly points to the luminosity.
What is the way that leads the practitioner to “the direct taste”? In Zen, koan is the technique and the way.
The one hand clapping koan is the instrument that leads one to directly and intuitively authenticate presence = sound.
Let’s use another koan for example, “Before birth who am I?” This is similar to just asking “Who am I?” The “Before birth” here is to skillfully lead the thinking mind to penetrate to the limit of its own depth and suddenly completely cease and rest, leaving only I-I. Only this I as pure existence itself. Before birth, this I. After birth, this I. This life or ten thousand lives before, this I. Ten thousand lives after, still this I. The direct encounter of the I-I.
Similarly, the koan of the sound of one hand clapping is to lead the practitioner, after initial breakthrough into I-I, not to get stuck in dead water and attached to the Absolute. To direct the practitioner to see the ten thousand faces of presence face-to-face. In this case, it is that “Sound” of one hand clapping.
Whether one hand claps or before both hands clap, what is that sound? It attempts to lead the practitioner into just that “Sound”. All along there is only one hand clapping; two hands (duality) are not needed. It is similar to contemplating “in hearing always only sound, no hearer”.
As for the empty and non-arisen nature of that Sound, Zen koans have not (IMO) been able to effectively point to the non-arisen and emptiness of one’s radiance clarity.
On Koans and Emptiness (MMK vs. Zen)
John Tan:Liu Zhi Guan Zen koans relate more to the direct pointing of one's radiance clarity, whereas MMK [Mūlamadhyamakakārikā] is about letting the mind see its own fabrications and allowing it to free itself from all elaborations (non-Gelug) or free itself from all fabrications (Gelug). The most crucial insight of both Gelug and non-Gelug (IMO) is to let the mind realize the primordial purity (emptiness) nature of both mind/phenomena.
Although Mipham treated Gelug's freedom from self-nature as categorized ultimate, I can only tell you I disagree. Both are able to achieve their objectives (IMO). In fact, if you were to ask for my sincere opinion, I prefer freedom from self-nature (Gelug) as, if understood properly and with experiential insight, it will lead to both +A and -A of emptiness.
If we were to treat the conventional (conceptuality) as the cause of ignorance, it prevents some very valuable insights that will take probably a lot of time to detail out. I will not go too detailed into that.
In short, seeing through intrinsic existence will similarly allow practitioners to see through conceptual constructs (non-conceptualities), see through duality (non-dual) and substantiality (essencelessness). Phenomena lack of self-nature also lacks sameness or difference; therefore, their primordial purity will likewise be realized, and selflessness also results in natural spontaneity. Yet because practitioners put freedom from self-nature at a higher order, they will not be bound by conceptualities and can embrace the conventional fully.
Refining the View
John Tan (2020): Be it Theravada, Mahayana or Vajrayana; be it Dzogchen, Mahamudra or Zen; they do not deviate from the definitive view of the 3 universal characteristics of dharma. Therefore experiences and realizations must always be authenticated with right view, otherwise we end in wonderland that is neither here nor there.
The "who am I" of Advaita and "before birth who am I" may have the same initial "realization" -- the face to face direct authentication of one's original face, and followed by a series of similar mind-shaking experiences but when subject to Madhyamaka ultimate analysis, they fall short of the prajna that Buddhism is talking about. Therefore keep the realization but refine the view.
(To someone at the I AM phase)
Pointers and Dialogue
Having said that John Tan did devise a “koan” as a pointer to emptiness:
John Tan: “Now” is not a container to him but rather a ground for him to land.
Say that there is... Share with him the post about Daniel's post on anatta and emptiness.
Then say there is a related koan that I ask you to [use for] a direct taste of the emptiness of the "here and now" but requires one to have direct experience of non-dual presencing:
Appreciate the vivid, lurid scenery in non-dual and ask,Where is this scenery?
On Anatta:
John Tan: André, to me "no awareness" in anatta is like telling us not to stop moving air to experience wind so that we can experience the blowing directly, effortlessly, and naturally.
Dependent origination is to explain the conventional relationship between wind and moving air to establish its validity conventionally and frees the inherent and dualistic rigidity.
Emptiness is very special, it is a koan.
The convention "wind" is empty and non-arisen.
What is that "wind"?
Why express that it originates in dependence and is empty and non-arisen?
Mr. LZG:
Before I am born, who was "I"?
The sound of wooden block hitting the table.
Soh Wei Yu:
That is not the "correct answer" to that koan. Although, there are no correct answers to koan so memorizing one is beside the point—the only correct answer is your own satori. But if you give this answer, the Zen master will tell you it is wrong.
Conversation — 27 October 2012
Soh: I just heard—now attending his talk. But he asked about the source: where do thoughts come from, where does cause and effect come from, who am I?
John: One day, get the opportunity to tell him why Zen becomes one with action is because of the realization that the source is not necessary. Although what is needed now is the direct experience of I AM.
Soh: What do you mean?
John: What answer does he expect?
Soh: Should be the I AMness. He is going through a list of koans. He rejected people hitting the floor for that question. He said, “You came from hitting the floor?”
John: [Laughs] Yeah, the I AM. You didn’t tell him?
Soh: [Laughs]
John: For Zen, the seven phases of insights will have to be rewritten for them to understand. But koan now has become a Q&A game. Unlike the past. Like studying a 10-year series.
Soh: I see. “For Zen the 7 phases of insights will have to be re-written for them to understand” — how is it to be rewritten?
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