Showing posts with label David Carse. Show all posts
Showing posts with label David Carse. Show all posts


 

 This is a nice book I read more than ten years ago. Not so much into anatta or emptiness, but about I AM and luminosity, impersonality and nondoership, and nonduality. Of the neo advaita type, with Tony Parson’s personal endorsement in it.

 
David carse is stage 4 sort of nondual, not anatta
 
(He had a permanent nondual awakening on ayahuasca, which is rare as I commented that most people only have passing peak experiences and glimpses through psychedelics)
 
 

https://www.perfectbrilliantstillness.org/



Session Start: Tuesday, 12 June, 2007

(9:02 PM) AEN:    Tony parsons say the following book is good, “It is so rare to see any work that holds that essential and fundamental perception without compromise.  Your book is a beacon which can shine through all of the fog and nonsense that is broadcast under the name of ‘advaita’ or ‘non-duality’. Especially as that expression comes out of no-one!”

Tony Parsons author of The Open Secret, As It Is and All There Is.
(9:03 PM) AEN:    -----
(9:03 PM) AEN:    

There is one tradition within Advaita which says that maya, the manifestation of the physical universe, is over-laid or superimposed on Sat Chit Ananda. I'm no scholar of these things, and can only attempt to describe what is seen here; and the Understanding here is that there is no question of one thing superimposed on another. Maya, the manifestation, the physical universe, is precisely Sat Chit Ananda, is not other than it, does not exist on its own as something separate to be overlaid on top of something else. This is the whole point! There is no maya! The only reason it appears to have its own reality and is commonly taken to be real in itself is because of a misperceiving, a mistaken perception which
(9:03 PM) AEN:    sees the appearance and not What Is. This is the meaning of Huang Po's comment that "no distinction should be made between the Absolute and the sentient world." No distinction! There is only One. There is not ever in any sense two. All perception of distinction and separation, all perception of duality, and all perception of what is known as physical reality, is mind-created illu-sion. When a teacher points at the physical world and says, "All this is maya," what is being said is that what you are seeing is illusion; what all this is is All That Is, pure Being Consciousness Bliss Outpouring; it is your perception of it as a physical world that is maya, illusion.
(9:06 PM) AEN:    -----
(9:06 PM) AEN:    Then there is no one to know but only the knowing, and all this world is as in a dream or a vision; only Brilliance beyond light, Love beyond love, clear knowing pure beauty streaming through these transparent forms and no one here at all.

After the jungle, there is an intensely odd and very beau-tiful quality to the experience of life. In one sense I can only describe everything, all experience, as having a certain emptiness. This is the sense in which everything used to matter, to be vital and important, and is now seen as unreal, empty, not important, an illusion. Once it is seen that the beyond-brilliance of Sat Chit Ananda is all that is, the dream continues as a kind of shadow. Yet, at the same moment that all of what appears in the dream is experi-enced as empty, it is also seen as more deeply beautiful and perfect than ever imagined, precisely because it is not other than Sat Chit Ananda, than all that is. Everything that does not matter, that is empty illusion, is at the same time itself the beyond-brilliance, the perfect beauty. Somehow there is a balance; these two appa
(9:07 PM) AEN:    these two apparently opposite aspects do not cancel each other out but complement each other. This makes no 'sense,' yet it is how it is.
(9:09 PM) Thusness:    very good!
(9:09 PM) AEN:    eh u're online! hahahaha
(9:09 PM) Thusness:    yeah
(9:09 PM) AEN:    There is in no way an individual sitting here talking to you. This body is nothing, an appearance in the dream. All there is is Consciousness, and it is Consciousness which is streaming through this appearance.

There is nothing here that exists in and of itself. What we call the human being is not an independent being, not an originating mechanism, not a transmitter. It is a relay station, a pass-through mechanism for Consciousness, the One Consciousness, All That Is. That is what I am, talking to you. And it is the same One Consciousness listening to this, looking back at me out of those eyes you call your own. What I am when I say 'I Am' is exactly the same as what you are when you say 'I Am.'
(9:09 PM) AEN:    http://www.non-dualitybooks.com/Perfect%20Brilliant%20Stillness.htm
(9:09 PM)    Thusness is now Online
(9:12 PM) AEN:    strange i thought i saw u offline
(9:12 PM) AEN:    u were offline just now rite?
(9:12 PM) Thusness:    i am online now.
(9:12 PM) AEN:    yea just now leh
(9:12 PM) AEN:    when i first pasted :P
(9:12 PM) Thusness:    online...
(9:12 PM) AEN:    ohh i must have seen wrongly haha
(9:13 PM) Thusness:    Tony parsons is really good and clear.
(9:13 PM) Thusness:    just like what i described....heehehe
(9:13 PM) Thusness:    but i don't tink ppl will know what he is saying.
(9:13 PM) AEN:    no leh
(9:13 PM) AEN:    thats not tony parsons
(9:13 PM) AEN:    but tony parsons thinks this author is good
(9:14 PM) Thusness:    huh?
(9:14 PM) Thusness:    no...
(9:14 PM) AEN:    he is david carse
(9:14 PM) AEN:    i said Tony parsons say the following book is good, “It is so rare to see any work that holds that essential and fundamental perception without compromise.  Your book is a beacon which can shine through all of the fog and nonsense that is broadcast under the name of ‘advaita’ or ‘non-duality’. Especially as that expression comes out of no-one!”

Tony Parsons author of The Open Secret, As It Is and All There Is.
(9:14 PM) Thusness:    ic.
(9:14 PM) Thusness:    yeah...
(9:14 PM) Thusness:    get his book...
(9:14 PM) AEN:    david carse or tony parsons lol
(9:15 PM) Thusness:    the one written the para on top
(9:15 PM) AEN:    david carse
(9:15 PM) AEN:    icic
(9:15 PM) Thusness:    i wonder he has had that experience for how long?
(9:15 PM) Thusness:    and is closer to buddhism....
(9:15 PM) AEN:    must have been many many years
(9:15 PM) AEN:    he said
(9:15 PM) AEN:    

Almost everyone I've heard of for whom this nameless thing appears to have been genuine seems to have gone into a long gestation period. Robert Adams, Tony Parsons, Suzanne Segal, Douglas Harding, and others; even Ramana Maharshi: ten, twelve, twenty years before any 'coming out.' In the Zen tradition, when a student monk comes to awakening he stays on in the role of student for another ten years of 'stabilizing.' Even Hui-Neng, the Sixth Zen Patriarch went and hid in the mountains for fifteen years after it happened.
(9:16 PM) AEN:    wait
(9:16 PM) AEN:    

Clearly in my case it was different, almost the complete opposite. After a lifetime of experiencing life as almost unbearably confusing and painful, of fighting against life and everything it brought, very different patterns and habits and ways of thinking were laid down in the condi-tioning. There was no background of the Teaching to fall back on or refer to. And, there was no community or other resources for support immediately after the happening.
(9:16 PM) AEN:    strange
(9:16 PM) AEN:    he never mention
(9:16 PM) AEN:    haha
(9:16 PM) AEN:    he said

Makes sense here. Jed McKenna calls it a "damn peculiar ten years" and I'd have to agree. It simply takes a while for the body/mind organism to adjust. Everything that people think is important and makes sense, is seen to be completely absurd, meaningless. And what people don't even see, is Perfect, beautiful, complete, needs no words. There is an inclination, even greater than previously, toward silence and solitude even though there is obviously no such thing.
(9:17 PM) Thusness:    david carse...
(9:17 PM) AEN:    yea
(9:17 PM) Thusness:    i am not sure whether he practices meditation...lol
(9:17 PM) AEN:    haha how come
(9:18 PM) Thusness:    vipassana meditation in particular.
(9:18 PM) AEN:    u think he does?
(9:18 PM) Thusness:    nope
(9:18 PM) AEN:    i think he's more to advaita
(9:18 PM) Thusness:    i am asking.
(9:18 PM) AEN:    oic
(9:18 PM) Thusness:    from what u have posted, his experience is thorough and clear.
(9:19 PM) AEN:    icic..
(9:19 PM) AEN:    yea otherwise tony parsons wldnt say such gd things hehe
(9:19 PM) Thusness:    yes.
(9:20 PM) Thusness:    but to deconstruct all and relook not from conventional standpoint.
(9:20 PM) Thusness:    a total start with a new and right view
(9:21 PM) Thusness:    it should be there is no I and mine from start.
(9:21 PM) Thusness:    therefore it is exactly what Buddha described in DO.
(9:21 PM) AEN:    icic..
(9:21 PM) AEN:    so u mean wat david carse should understand DO?
(9:22 PM) Thusness:    i wonder how many years he has had that clarity of experience and does he go through insight meditation.
(9:22 PM) AEN:    oic.. have to check
(9:22 PM) Thusness:    it will be good if it is more than 5 yrs. :)
(9:23 PM) AEN:    icic..
(9:23 PM) AEN:    i think so bah, he said others need to go through 10+ years etc b4 body/mind is adapted or something
(9:24 PM) AEN:    so he probably had v long experience
(9:27 PM) AEN:    btw i dont think meditation led to his enlightenment
(9:28 PM) AEN:     Hui-Neng says that while the Understanding is sudden, what he calls 'deliverance' is gradual indeed. Near as I can figure, the mind/body thing is impacted by the happening of the Understanding, and that can take some adjustment. How can it be otherwise? In some cases perhaps the transition can be smooth: if for example you live in a culture and a time in which you are saturated in the the basic elements of the Teaching all your life, the period of adjustment in the body/mind organism may be very mild.

Clearly in my case it was different, almost the complete opposite. After a lifetime of experiencing life as almost unbearably confusing and painful, of fighting against life and everything it brought, very different patterns and habits and ways of thinking were laid down in the condi-tioning. There was no background of the Teaching to fall back on or refer to. And, there was no community or other resources for support immediately after the happening.

There is a tradition in Buddhism of something called Pratyeka-bodhi, 'solitary realization.' It refers to Awakening when it occurs ou
(9:28 PM) AEN:     There is a tradition in Buddhism of something called Pratyeka-bodhi, 'solitary realization.' It refers to Awakening when it occurs outside of the usual transmission of teaching from master to disciple, and without the usual background or preparation or support. In such a case, the road to deliv-erance might well be even more "damn peculiar" than otherwise. Perhaps Ramesh was thinking of something like this when he said to me,
(9:28 PM) AEN:    his awakening was sudden and he didnt knew any teachings
(9:30 PM) Thusness:    not meditation lead to his experience.
(9:30 PM) Thusness:    it is I want to know whether he meditates.
(9:30 PM) AEN:    orh ok icic
(9:31 PM) AEN:    btw u tink tony parsons better or david carse's bk better? lol
(9:32 PM) Thusness:    both are good.
(9:32 PM) Thusness:    what is david carse url?
(9:32 PM) AEN:    icic
(9:32 PM) AEN:    i dun tink he has website..
(9:32 PM) Thusness:    ic
(9:33 PM) AEN:    http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0976578301/ref=sib_dp_pt/105-5634522-7843629#reader-link
(9:34 PM) AEN:    "What you think you are, a separate individual entity, is part of this illusion. You are not the doer of any action or the thinker of any thought. Events happen, but there is no doer. All there is, is Consciousness. That is what You truly are."
(9:34 PM) AEN:    not much more info about his story
(9:34 PM) AEN:    lol
(9:34 PM) AEN:    its probably somewhere in the book but u have to get it :P
(9:35 PM) AEN:    chapter 3.. not included lol
(9:40 PM) Thusness:    cool...
(9:40 PM) Thusness:    the first page about copyright...
(9:40 PM) Thusness:    lol
(9:40 PM) AEN:    hahaha
(9:40 PM) AEN:    theres chapter 2 also
(9:41 PM) AEN:    chapt 1 and 2
(9:41 PM) Thusness:    straight away there is no 'mine'
(9:41 PM) AEN:    yeha
(9:41 PM) AEN:    yeah
(9:41 PM) AEN:    in fact
(9:41 PM) AEN:    the book name is this
(9:41 PM) AEN:    Perfect Brilliant Stillness: beyond the individual self
(9:42 PM) AEN:    "An intimate account of spontaneous spiritual enlightenment and its implication in a life lived beyond the individual self." - http://www.nonduality.com/perfect_brilliant_stillness.htm
(9:44 PM) AEN:    lol he awakened when he was working on strange shamanic practices
(9:46 PM) AEN:    hmm apparently ramesh balsekar was one of david carse's teachers?
(9:46 PM) AEN:    http://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Brilliant-Stillness-David-Carse/dp/0976578301
(9:51 PM) Thusness:    yeah
(9:53 PM) Thusness:    but the way he express in the chapter is not good enough.
(9:53 PM) Thusness:    ehehehhe
(9:53 PM) AEN:    which chapter
(9:54 PM) AEN:    hmm what things he express?
(9:54 PM) Thusness:    both chapter.
(9:54 PM) Thusness:    chapters.
(9:54 PM) AEN:    oo icic
(9:54 PM) AEN:    what u tink is not good enough
(9:54 PM) Thusness:    but good to get his book.
(9:54 PM) AEN:    oic
(9:54 PM) Thusness:    probably it is because not buddhist trained. :P
(9:54 PM) Thusness:    lol
(9:54 PM) Thusness:    joking.
(9:55 PM) AEN:    wahahahaha
(9:55 PM) AEN:    hmm
(9:55 PM) AEN:    but wat do u tink is not expressed good enough
(9:55 PM) AEN:    like in wat aspect
(9:55 PM) Thusness:    i prefer buddhism and DO.
(9:55 PM) Thusness:    and vipassana meditation.
(9:55 PM) Thusness:    it is very important.
(9:56 PM) Thusness:    if can go along with non-dual realisation.  It produces fantastic results. :P
(9:56 PM) AEN:    oo icic..
(9:56 PM) Thusness:    practice insight meditation.
(9:57 PM) AEN:    ok
(9:57 PM) Thusness:    if u can have non-dual insight and u practice insight meditation.
(9:57 PM) Thusness:    u will know what i meant.
(9:57 PM) AEN:    icic..
(9:58 PM) Thusness:    the best is 3-5 yrs of solid practice in meditation after non-dual experience.
(9:58 PM) AEN:    oic..
(10:01 PM) Thusness:    it is very difficult to tell u the experience but normally 3-5 yrs after the non-dual realisation with the support of insight meditation will be great.
(10:01 PM) AEN:    icic..
(10:01 PM) AEN:    will realise 'emptiness as form'?
(10:03 PM) Thusness:    should. :)
(10:03 PM) AEN:    icic..
(10:03 PM) Thusness:    that is very very important like mind/body drop
(10:03 PM) AEN:    oic
(10:03 PM) Thusness:    if not the experience will not be complete even at the non-dual stage.
(10:03 PM) Thusness:    the intensity and clarity of manifestation alone.
(10:03 PM) Thusness:    and nothing else.
(10:03 PM) AEN:    oic..
(10:07 PM) Thusness:    but my advise is to find someone with that sort of experience and is a buddhist.
(10:07 PM) AEN:    icic
(10:07 PM) Thusness:    however mostly is in those zen monks.
(10:07 PM) Thusness:    lol
(10:07 PM) Thusness:    and i don't quite like zen.
(10:07 PM) AEN:    hahaha why
(10:07 PM) AEN:    zen monks like who
(10:08 PM) Thusness:    dogen is good.
(10:08 PM) AEN:    oic
(10:08 PM) AEN:    why u dont like zen ah
(10:08 PM) Thusness:    huang po also
(10:08 PM) AEN:    icic
(10:08 PM) Thusness:    i don't like zen books.
(10:08 PM) Thusness:    like what longchen said.
(10:08 PM) Thusness:    in dzogchen.
(10:09 PM) AEN:    i cant really remember what exactly longchen said liao.. he said wat.. dun wanna reinforce more concepts?
(10:09 PM) AEN:    cant remember
(10:09 PM) AEN:    whats ur reason
(10:09 PM) Thusness:    first many haven't really scratch the surface yet.
(10:09 PM) Thusness:    and nowadays many zen masters are half past six also
(10:09 PM) Thusness:    unlike the past.
(10:09 PM) AEN:    as in what
(10:10 PM) Thusness:    in their realisation.
(10:10 PM) AEN:    oic
(10:10 PM) Thusness:    it is very dangerous.
(10:10 PM) AEN:    icic
(10:10 PM) AEN:    how come
(10:10 PM) Thusness:    anyone that gone through the process of training will know how subtle 'bonds' are.
(10:11 PM) Thusness:    it is not just a sudden realisation then that's it sort of stuff.
(10:11 PM) AEN:    oic..
(10:11 PM) Thusness:    and even the realisation is mostly advaita like.
(10:12 PM) AEN:    icic.. as in what, 'i amness'?
(10:12 PM) Thusness:    yeah...no matter how intense the experience is, still under the bond.
(10:12 PM) AEN:    oic
(10:13 PM) AEN:    btw so
(10:13 PM) AEN:    whats ur reason for not liking zen or dzogchen books or stuff like that
(10:13 PM) AEN:    even if its good
(10:13 PM) AEN:    as in deep in insight
(10:14 PM) Thusness:    nope...i like dzogchen books.
(10:14 PM) Thusness:    i think they are written more proper.
(10:14 PM) Thusness:    with clear and detailed explanations.
(10:14 PM) Thusness:    precise too.
(10:14 PM) AEN:    oic..
(10:14 PM) Thusness:    however it must not prone towards advaita.
(10:15 PM) AEN:    icic
(10:15 PM) AEN:    then zen books leh :P
(10:15 PM) AEN:    explanation no good?
(10:15 PM) Thusness:    zen stressed on directness
(10:15 PM) AEN:    namkhai norbu is good rite?
(10:15 PM) AEN:    icic.. wot about it
(10:15 PM) Thusness:    the one u posted me yesterday?
(10:15 PM) Thusness:    yeah...
(10:15 PM) AEN:    ya
(10:15 PM) Thusness:    that one is very good.
(10:16 PM) AEN:    icic
(10:16 PM) Thusness:    u have to practice meditation.
(10:16 PM) AEN:    ok
(10:16 PM) Thusness:    insight meditation once non-duality insight is gained, practice harder.
(10:16 PM) AEN:    icic.. ok
(10:16 PM) Thusness:    the first 2 years of deconstruction will still be tough.
(10:17 PM) Thusness:    later when u can feel the crystal clarity in manifestation and realised the texture and fabric of awareness, u will not see it as formless, u will see emptiness as forms.
(10:17 PM) Thusness:    formless and forms are one.
(10:17 PM) AEN:    icic..
(10:21 PM) AEN:    I only am all beings
I only exist as all appearances
I am only experienced as all sentience
I am only cognised as all knowing.
Only visible is all that is seen,
Every concept is a concept of what I am.
All that sseems to be is my being,
For what I am is not any thing.

Being whatever is phenomenal,
Whatever can be conceived as appearing,
I who am conceiving cannot be conceived,
Since only I conceive,
How could I conceive what is conceiving?
What I am is what I conceive;
Is that not enough for me to be?
(10:21 PM) AEN:    ~ Wei Wu Wei
(10:21 PM) AEN:    what u tink
(10:21 PM) Thusness:    heard a lot about him but din read much
(10:21 PM) AEN:    oic
(10:21 PM) Thusness:    hehehe
(10:21 PM) Thusness:    i am almost done with forgetting everything
(10:21 PM) AEN:    lol
(10:21 PM) Thusness:    lol
(10:46 PM) AEN:    u there?
(10:46 PM) AEN:    now mike has a sudden interest in dzogchen liao
(10:46 PM) AEN:    after reading our posts
(10:46 PM) AEN:    LOL
(10:46 PM) AEN:    he wanna attend namkhai norbu's teachings now :P
(10:48 PM)    Thusness has changed his/her status to Idle
(10:51 PM)    You have just sent a nudge.
(10:51 PM) AEN:    lol
(10:51 PM) AEN:    i tink its gd for him
(10:56 PM)    AEN is now Offline