https://www.wisdompubs.org/book/middle-length-discourses-buddha/selections/middle-length-discourses-118-anapanasati-sutta

Ānāpānasati Sutta: Mindfulness of Breathing

(Introductory Section)
1. Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was living at Sāvatthī in the Eastern Park, in the Palace of Migāra’s Mother, together with many very well known elder disciples—the venerable Sāriputta, the venerable Mahā Moggallāna, the venerable Mahā Kassapa, the venerable Mahā Kaccāna, the venerable Mahā Koṭṭhita, the venerable Mahā Kappina, the venerable Mahā Cunda, [79] the venerable Anuruddha, the venerable Revata, the venerable Ānanda, and other very well known elder disciples.
    2. Now on that occasion elder bhikkhus had been teaching and instructing new bhikkhus; some elder bhikkhus had been teaching and instructing ten bhikkhus, some elder bhikkhus had been teaching and instructing twenty … thirty … forty bhikkhus. And the new bhikkhus, taught and instructed by the elder bhikkhus, had achieved successive stages of high distinction.
    3. On that occasion—the Uposatha day of the fifteenth, on the full-moon night of the Pavāraṇā ceremony—the Blessed One was seated in the open surrounded by the Sangha of bhikkhus. Then, surveying the silent Sangha of bhikkhus, he addressed them thus:
    4. “Bhikkhus, I am content with this progress. My mind is content with this progress. So arouse still more energy to attain the unattained, to achieve the unachieved, to realise the unrealised. I shall wait here at Sāvatthī for the Komudī full moon of the fourth month.”
    5. The bhikkhus of the countryside heard: “The Blessed One will wait there at Sāvatthī for the Komudī full moon of the fourth month.” And the bhikkhus of the countryside left in due course for Sāvatthī to see the Blessed One.
    6. And elder bhikkhus still more intensively taught and instructed new bhikkhus; some elder bhikkhus taught and instructed ten bhikkhus, some elder bhikkhus taught and instructed twenty … thirty … forty bhikkhus. And the new bhikkhus, taught and instructed by the elder bhikkhus, [80] achieved successive stages of high distinction.
    7. On that occasion—the Uposatha day of the fifteenth, the full-moon night of the Komudī full moon of the fourth month—the Blessed One was seated in the open surrounded by the Sangha of bhikkhus. Then, surveying the silent Sangha of bhikkhus, he addressed them thus:
    8. “Bhikkhus, this assembly is free from prattle, this assembly is free from chatter. It consists purely of heartwood. Such is this Sangha of bhikkhus, such is this assembly. Such an assembly as is worthy of gifts, worthy of hospitality, worthy of offerings, worthy of reverential salutation, an incomparable field of merit for the world—such is this Sangha of bhikkhus, such is this assembly. Such an assembly that a small gift given to it becomes great and a great gift greater—such is this Sangha of bhikkhus, such is this assembly. Such an assembly as is rare for the world to see—such is this Sangha of bhikkhus, such is this assembly. Such an assembly as would be worth journeying many leagues with a travel-bag to see—such is this Sangha of bhikkhus, such is this assembly.
    9. “In this Sangha of bhikkhus there are bhikkhus who are arahants with taints destroyed, who have lived the holy life, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, reached their own goal, destroyed the fetters of being, and are completely liberated through final knowledge—such bhikkhus are there in this Sangha of bhikkhus.
    10. “In this Sangha of bhikkhus there are bhikkhus who, with the destruction of the five lower fetters, are due to reappear spontaneously [in the Pure Abodes] and there attain final Nibbāna, without ever returning from that world—such bhikkhus are there in this Sangha of bhikkhus.
    11. “In this Sangha of bhikkhus there are bhikkhus who, with the destruction of three fetters and with the attenuation of lust, hate, and delusion, are once-returners, returning once to this world [81] to make an end of suffering—such bhikkhus are there in this Sangha of bhikkhus.
    12. “In this Sangha of bhikkhus there are bhikkhus who, with the destruction of the three fetters, are stream-enterers, no longer subject to perdition, bound [for deliverance], headed for enlightenment—such bhikkhus are there in this Sangha of bhikkhus.
    13. “In this Sangha of bhikkhus there are bhikkhus who abide devoted to the development of the four foundations of mindfulness—such bhikkhus are there in this Sangha of bhikkhus. In this Sangha of bhikkhus there are bhikkhus who abide devoted to the development of the four right kinds of striving … of the four bases for spiritual power … of the five faculties … of the five powers … of the seven enlightenment factors … of the Noble Eightfold Path—such bhikkhus are there in this Sangha of bhikkhus.
    14. “In this Sangha of bhikkhus there are bhikkhus who abide devoted to the development of loving-kindness [82] … of compassion … of altruistic joy … of equanimity … of the meditation on foulness … of the perception of impermanence—such bhikkhus are there in this Sangha of bhikkhus. In this Sangha of bhikkhus there are bhikkhus who abide devoted to the development of mindfulness of breathing.
(Mindfulness of Breathing)
15. “Bhikkhus, when mindfulness of breathing is developed and cultivated, it is of great fruit and great benefit. When mindfulness of breathing is developed and cultivated, it fulfils the four foundations of mindfulness. When the four foundations of mindfulness are developed and cultivated, they fulfil the seven enlightenment factors. When the seven enlightenment factors are developed and cultivated, they fulfil true knowledge and deliverance.
    16. “And how, bhikkhus, is mindfulness of breathing developed and cultivated, so that it is of great fruit and great benefit?
    17. “Here a bhikkhu, gone to the forest or to the root of a tree or to an empty hut, sits down; having folded his legs crosswise, set his body erect, and established mindfulness in front of him, ever mindful he breathes in, mindful he breathes out.
    18. “Breathing in long, he understands: ‘I breathe in long’; or breathing out long, he understands: ‘I breathe out long.’ Breathing in short, he understands: ‘I breathe in short’; or breathing out short, he understands: ‘I breathe out short.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing the whole body [of breath]’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing the whole body [of breath].’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in tranquillising the bodily formation’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out tranquillising the bodily formation.’
    19. “He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing rapture’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing rapture.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing pleasure’; [83] he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing pleasure.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing the mental formation’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing the mental formation.’ He train thus: ‘I shall breathe in tranquillising the mental formation’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out tranquillising the mental formation.’
    20. “He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing the mind’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing the mind.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in gladdening the mind’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out gladdening the mind.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in concentrating the mind’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out concentrating the mind.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in liberating the mind’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out liberating the mind.’
    21. “He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in contemplating impermanence’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out contemplating impermanence.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in contemplating fading away’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out contemplating fading away.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in contemplating cessation’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out contemplating cessation.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in contemplating relinquishment’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out contemplating relinquishment.’
    22. “Bhikkhus, that is how mindfulness of breathing is developed and cultivated, so that it is of great fruit and great benefit.
(Fulfilment of the Four Foundations of Mindfulness)
23. “And how, bhikkhus, does mindfulness of breathing, developed and cultivated, fulfil the four foundations of mindfulness?
    24. “Bhikkhus, on whatever occasion a bhikkhu, breathing in long, understands: ‘I breathe in long,’ or breathing out long, understands: ‘I breathe out long’; breathing in short, understands: ‘I breathe in short,’ or breathing out short, understands: ‘I breathe out short’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing the whole body [of breath]’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing the whole body [of breath]’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in tranquillising the bodily formation’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out tranquillising the bodily formation’—on that occasion a bhikkhu abides contemplating the body as a body, ardent, fully aware, and mindful, having put away covetousness and grief for the world. I say that this is a certain body among the bodies, namely, in-breathing and out-breathing. That is why on that occasion a bhikkhu abides contemplating the body as a body, ardent, fully aware, and mindful, having put away covetousness and grief for the world.
    25. “Bhikkhus, on whatever occasion [84] a bhikkhu trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing rapture’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing rapture’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing pleasure’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing pleasure’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing the mental formation’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing the mental formation’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in tranquillising the mental formation’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out tranquillising the mental formation’—on that occasion a bhikkhu abides contemplating feelings as feelings, ardent, fully aware, and mindful, having put away covetousness and grief for the world. I say that this is a certain feeling among the feelings, namely, giving close attention to in-breathing and out-breathing. That is why on that occasion a bhikkhu abides contemplating feelings as feelings, ardent, fully aware, and mindful, having put away covetousness and grief for the world.
    26. “Bhikkhus, on whatever occasion a bhikkhu trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing the mind’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing the mind’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in gladdening the mind’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out gladdening the mind’; train thus: ‘I shall breathe in concentrating the mind’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out concentrating the mind’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in liberating the mind’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out liberating the mind’—on that occasion a bhikkhu abides contemplating mind as mind, ardent, fully aware, and mindful, having put away covetousness and grief for the world. I do not say that there is the development of mindfulness of breathing for one who is forgetful, who is not fully aware. That is why on that occasion a bhikkhu abides contemplating mind as mind, ardent, fully aware, and mindful, having put away covetousness and grief for the world.
    27. “Bhikkhus, on whatever occasion a bhikkhu trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in contemplating impermanence’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out contemplating impermanence’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in contemplating fading away’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out contemplating fading away’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in contemplating cessation’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out contemplating cessation’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in contemplating relinquishment’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out contemplating relinquishment’—on that occasion a bhikkhu abides contemplating mind-objects as mind-objects, ardent, fully aware, and mindful, having put away covetousness and grief for the world. Having seen with wisdom the abandoning of covetousness and grief, [85] he closely looks on with equanimity. That is why on that occasion a bhikkhu abides contemplating mind-objects as mind-objects, ardent, fully aware, and mindful, having put away covetousness and grief for the world.
    28. “Bhikkhus, that is how mindfulness of breathing, developed and cultivated, fulfils the four foundations of mindfulness.
(Fulfilment of the Seven Enlightenment Factors)
29. “And how, bhikkhus, do the four foundations of mindfulness, developed and cultivated, fulfil the seven enlightenment factors?
    30. “Bhikkhus, on whatever occasion a bhikkhu abides contemplating the body as a body, ardent, fully aware, and mindful, having put away covetousness and grief for the world—on that occasion unremitting mindfulness is established in him. On whatever occasion unremitting mindfulness is established in a bhikkhu—on that occasion the mindfulness enlightenment factor is aroused in him, and he develops it, and by development, it comes to fulfilment in him.
    31. “Abiding thus mindful, he investigates and examines that state with wisdom and embarks upon a full inquiry into it. On whatever occasion, abiding thus mindful, a bhikkhu investigates and examines that state with wisdom and embarks upon a full inquiry into it—on that occasion the investigation-of-states enlightenment factor is aroused in him, and he develops it, and by development it comes to fulfilment in him.
    32. “In one who investigates and examines that state with wisdom and embarks upon a full inquiry into it, tireless energy is aroused. On whatever occasion tireless energy is aroused in a bhikkhu who investigates and examines that state with wisdom and embarks upon a full inquiry into it—on that occasion the energy enlightenment factor is aroused in him, and he develops it, and by development it comes to fulfilment in him.
    33. “In one who has aroused energy, unworldly rapture arises. On whatever occasion unworldly rapture arises in a bhikkhu who has aroused energy—[86] on that occasion the rapture enlightenment factor is aroused in him, and he develops it, and by development it comes to fulfilment in him.
    34. “In one who is rapturous, the body and the mind become tranquil. On whatever occasion the body and the mind become tranquil in a bhikkhu who is rapturous—on that occasion the tranquillity enlightenment factor is aroused in him, and he develops it, and by development it comes to fulfilment in him.
    35. “In one whose body is tranquil and who feels pleasure, the mind becomes concentrated. On whatever occasion the mind becomes concentrated in a bhikkhu whose body is tranquil and who feels pleasure—on that occasion the concentration enlightenment factor is aroused in him, and he develops it, and by development it comes to fulfilment in him.
    36. “He closely looks on with equanimity at the mind thus concentrated. On whatever occasion a bhikkhu closely looks on with equanimity at the mind thus concentrated—on that occasion the equanimity enlightenment factor is aroused in him, and he develops it, and by development it comes to fulfilment in him.
    37. “Bhikkhus, on whatever occasion a bhikkhu abides contemplating feelings as feelings, ardent, fully aware, and mindful, having put away covetousness and grief for the world … (repeat as at §§30–36) … the equanimity enlightenment factor is aroused in him, and he develops it, and by development it comes to fulfilment in him.
    38. “Bhikkhus, on whatever occasion a bhikkhu abides contemplating mind as mind, ardent, fully aware, and mindful, having put away covetousness and grief for the world … (repeat as at §§30–36) … the equanimity enlightenment factor is aroused in him, and he develops it, and by development it comes to fulfilment in him.
    39. “Bhikkhus, on whatever occasion a bhikkhu abides contemplating mind-object as mind-objects, ardent, fully aware, and mindful, having put away covetousness and grief for the world … (repeat as at §§30–36) … [87] … the equanimity enlightenment factor is aroused in him, and he develops it, and by development it comes to fulfilment in him.
    40. “Bhikkhus, that is how the four foundations of mindfulness, developed and cultivated, fulfil the seven enlightenment factors. [88]
(Fulfilment of True Knowledge and Deliverance)
41. “And how, bhikkhus, do the seven enlightenment factors, developed and cultivated, fulfil true knowledge and deliverance?
    42. “Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops the mindfulness enlightenment factor, which is supported by seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, and ripens in relinquishment. He develops the investigation-of-states enlightenment factor … the energy enlightenment factor … the rapture enlightenment factor … the tranquillity enlightenment factor … the concentration enlightenment factor … the equanimity enlightenment factor, which is supported by seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, and ripens in relinquishment.
    43. “Bhikkhus, that is how the seven enlightenment factors, developed and cultivated, fulfil true knowledge and deliverance.”

Also see:

Vipassana Must Go With Luminous Manifestation
Four Foundations of Mindfulness: The Direct Path to Liberation
Vipassana
Mindfulness as Remembrance

Their anatta understanding is still inferential, even if they have peak experiences of some aspects of no-self. It is not the same as what we call the realisation of anatman.

http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/12/vipassana-must-go-with-luminous.html

It will be good that when doing vipassana, at the same time you contemplate experientially the two stanzas of anatta or bahiya sutta, that will lead to the anatman breakthrough

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2010/10/my-commentary-on-bahiya-sutta.html

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2008/01/ajahn-amaro-on-non-duality-and.html "

Thusness, 2005~2007:

Ck: john, how to practise vipassana in daily life?
Thusness: just observe every sensation.
Thusness: until one day u are able to experience "emptiness as form".
Thusness: then it becomes effortless.
Thusness: Truthz u cannot imagine the bliss when one clearly experiences that.
Thusness: but there is no point to over stress anything.
Thusness: :)
Ck: Thusness just observe every sensation... give me an eg?
Thusness: when u breath, u don't have to care what is the right way of breathing, whether u breath hard or soft, smooth or fine...just experience as much clarity as u can...just that experience...regardless of what it is like.
Thusness: same for all other experiences.
Ck: wot abt sound? hows it?
Thusness: when u hear, just the sound...the totality of the sound. There is no how but just to do away with all abitary thoughts. Hear the sound as clear as u can be.
Ck: then wot abt thots?
Ck: thots r v sticky Sad
Thusness: thoughts seldom arise if the practice is correct. If it arises, then not to chase after its meaning. Not to answer urself what it means, not to dwell in 'what'...then u will resort to just the moment of awareness.
Ck: when i try to be just openly aware, i notice that i jump from sense to sense
Ck: like one moment hearing, then touch, etc
Thusness: that is okie.
Thusness: our nature is so.
Ck: wots the rite way to do it
Thusness: don't think that u should concentrate.
Thusness: ur only duty is to sense with as much clarity as possible.
Ck: and for all the sensations, i dun dwell in the 'what'?
Thusness: ur mind is looking for a way, a method
Thusness: but what that is needed is only the clarity.
Thusness: however because our mind is so molded and affect by our habitual propensities, it becomes difficult what that is direct and simple.
Thusness: just stop asking 'how', 'what', 'why'.
Thusness: and submerge into the moment.
Thusness: and experience.
Thusness: i prefer u to describe.
Thusness: not to ask how, what, why, when, where and who.
Thusness: only this is necessary.
Ck: ok
Thusness: if u practice immediately, u will understand.
Thusness: if u entertain who, what, where, when and how, u create more propensities and dull ur own luminosity.

Ck: i shuffle btw self inquiry, observing sensations n thots, being aware... its ok rite
Thusness: yes
Ck: means start work i'll hv even more propensities...
Thusness: that is when u do not understand what awareness, but it is true to certain extend. :)

.....

(10:07 PM) Thusness: tell me what u think is awareness?
(10:07 PM) Thusness: in ur own words
(10:07 PM) Thusness: just say
(10:08 PM) AEN: just the knowingness, the sensation or thoughts etc
(10:09 PM) Thusness: look at the skin of ur hands
(10:09 PM) AEN: ok
(10:09 PM) Thusness: looks real?
(10:09 PM) AEN: yea
(10:09 PM) Thusness: touch it...feel it as much as u can
(10:10 PM) Thusness: can u don't think of a background
(10:10 PM) AEN: yea
(10:10 PM) Thusness: and know that, that is awareness?
(10:10 PM) AEN: ya
(10:10 PM) Thusness: that is all.


.....

[22:37] <^john^> so far what do u understand about awareness?
[22:38] hmm like u say lor... awareness is never lost
[22:39] <^john^> what is awareness right now?
[22:39] <^john^> when u say thought arises, is thought awareness?
[22:41] thought is not awareness, but there is awareness of thought
[22:41] lol
[22:41] <^john^> so what is thought?
[22:42] <^john^> and where is awareness?
[22:42] <^john^> same like taste, is the taste awareness?
[22:45] i think u cant define awareness to a 'thing' Razz
[22:45] <^john^> so is taste or thought a thing? :)
[22:47] <^john^> u practice meditation now right?
[22:47] <^john^> :)
[22:47] never practise for quite some time Razz
[22:47] taste or thought is not a thing
[22:47] lol
[22:49] <^john^> so do u think awareness is a party behind thinking thought or experiencing taste?
[22:49] <^john^> :)
[22:49] <^john^> lol
[22:49] no
[22:49] <^john^> taste is not a thing, then what is it?
[22:50] just the awareness
[22:50] <^john^> experience this awareness with totality. :)

.....

(12:21 AM) Thusness: what is the role of insight meditation?
(12:22 AM) Thusness: why bare attention?
(12:22 AM) Thusness: why naked awareness?
(12:22 AM) Thusness: when insight meditation is taught and buddha said when hearing jsut the sound...this and that...
(12:23 AM) Thusness: what buddha wanted is to experience directly what awareness is, the arising, the ceasing, the clarity, the non-dual nature
(12:23 AM) Thusness: in DO
(12:24 AM) AEN_____: icic..
(12:24 AM) Thusness: not to note it with thought or place any conclusion on any experience.
(12:25 AM) Thusness: "this is impermanence" is not about noting and place any conclusion about an phenomenon arising.
(12:26 AM) Thusness: but experience impermanence directly, not in words
(12:26 AM) AEN_____: icic.. yea
(12:26 AM) Thusness: be impermanence and know what is it really...
(12:26 AM) Thusness: see what clarity is, not what it should be
(12:27 AM) Thusness: it is luminous and yet empty...experience it directly...it is so.
(12:27 AM) AEN_____: icic..
(12:27 AM) Thusness: break the solidity until there is no holding simply thus.
(12:28 AM) Thusness:    don't watch...there is no watcher...there is just momentary manifestation and that is already luminosity and emptiness
(12:31 AM) AEN:    but in conventional saying we say often say watching mah haha
(12:31 AM) AEN:    easier to understand
(12:31 AM) Thusness:    yeah but i am not toking about conventional or ultimate
(12:31 AM) Thusness:    if it is just a form of expression there is nothing wrong with it.
(12:32 AM) Thusness:    but the fact is we are really experiencing it as if there is a watcher...that is the problem.





.....

2007:

(10:03 PM) Thusness:    lately i have been experiencing more vividly "Emptiness as form". insight meditation (vipassana) like what buddha taught is very important. when seeing, just the seen. when hearing, just the heard
(10:04 PM) AEN:              oic isn't this non duality 
(10:04 PM) Thusness:    yeah… but the depth of clarity. it is difficult for me to tell you. just train yourself into that.. if you didn’t, your life will be wasted. even with all the things i tell you. :) after non duality, you must experience until at least this level, "Emptiness as form"
(10:06 PM) AEN:              btw emptiness as form is not form as emptiness? it's like the dharma dan heart sutra model
(10:06 PM) AEN:              first is form as form, then emptiness is emptiness, then form is emptiness, then emptiness is form ?
(10:06 PM) Thusness:    just the manifestation until tremendous clarity.
(10:06 PM) Thusness:    no need… just non-dual and the depth of non-duality

"14/06/2006

Reply part 1:

Is Absorption not aware of other things?  This is difficult to say.  Although many articles and books about mindfulness seem to suggest that it is so, this is not necessarily true when we progress towards the more subtle experience. Clarity can come a time where it is so clear that it is an absorption, it is a sort of Insight-Absorption but It is different from absorption derived from concentration.  It is clarity absorption where it touches the heart of 'things', that is itself.  For example being taste itself, it is absorbed yet completely clear.  This is truly blissful and beyond description.  I have not come across any book touching this yet and I hope Toni's new book can write something about it. :)
 
Reply part 2:

The AMness can be said to be a form of absorption where the object of concentration is the Self.  It can be a question "Who am I" that leads one to the experience of the subject-object becoming one.  Till a point the practitioner simply experiences a pure sense of existence.  However such mode of experience has no understanding of its luminous clarity and its nature as anatta.  The key point about mindful awareness is there is no keeping of the mind on anything and by not resting on anything, it fuses into everything; therefore it cannot be concentrated; rather it is to relax into nothingness empty of self, empty of any artificial doing so that the natural luminosity can take its own course.  There is no focusing, there is only allowing the mirror bright clarity to shine with it natural radiance.  In essence there is no one there, only the phenomenon arising and ceasing telling their stories." - John Tan, 2006

…

 

Session Start: Monday, April 13, 2009

 

(8:54 PM) AEN:           s4bnw: Let's do some inference. The direct path provides a direct way of realising our buddha nature, which is in effect, directly helping one to progress faster, spiritually-wise compared to those who take the gradual path, which means they take more time and more round-about way to see buddha nature, isn't it?

(9:44 PM) Thusness:  yes

(9:45 PM) Thusness:  in general yes. it also depends on a practitioner dedication. Buddha said b4 if one can be fully vipassanic for 7 days, one can reach full enlightenment right? if a person can have that sort of crystal clarity like "I AMness" in all arising sensations for day and night 7 days, I believe he will reach enlightenment

(9:48 PM) AEN:           oic..

(9:50 PM) Thusness:  like I hear sound, till it becomes "I AMness", crystal clarity...till it burns away all labels, all divisions, just crystal clear SOUND.  If all whatever arises can have that sort of clarity, pristineness, then I can't imagine...if the concentration is that great. :)

(9:51 PM) Thusness:  actually it is crystal clarity and effortlessness. to me it can only be done when a practitioner already penetrate the deepest nature of non dual awareness.  That is why he knows why and how deep within him.

(9:52 PM) Thusness:  it is this non-dual clarity

(9:52 PM) AEN:           icic..

(9:55 PM) AEN:           btw then gradual path is what

You mean what you said is direct path?

(9:55 PM) Thusness:  gradual

then it is the same. like do vipassana till one is able to do that.

(9:55 PM) AEN:           oic..

(9:56 PM) Thusness:  realisation is only one knows the how and why... but that is already quite a deep realisation

(9:56 PM) Thusness:  after stabilizing non-dual then one knows why

why buddha taught vipassana. that crystal clear mirror presence yet empty.

(9:58 PM) AEN:           icic..

(10:00 PM) Thusness:            actually if we can have the fullest and effortless experience of this non-dual mirror presence, then nothing matters. whether DO or Brahman, it is the same.

(10:01 PM) AEN:         wat do you mean

(10:02 PM) Thusness:            means at the greatest clarity and completely effortless experience of our non-dual mirror presence, there is no difference. at that point, there are no concepts, labelling, self, views... it is just complete oneness and reality. so no difference

(10:03 PM) AEN:         but non dual is not yet emptiness insight rite

(10:03 PM) Thusness:            emptiness or DO are also raft... if one can completely dissolve the last trace without any views, then there is no difference. just simply naked awareness, that is sufficient. however we don't know what is naked awareness. we have only a very very vague idea of what non-dual awareness is.

 

For those that experience Eternal Witness, they thought they know...but in truth, only a glimpse... therefore one undergo non-dual, anatta, emptiness and then spontaneous perfection. if we can fully experience non-dual mirror like Awareness in full effortlessness, then we have to be empty, centerless and traceless. otherwise there is no true effortlessness and spontaneity. most likely it will be a contrived experience

(10:07 PM) AEN:         u mean through concentration?

(10:08 PM) Thusness:            without understanding of DO and emptiness. because our existing dualistic and inherent views is the cause of that contrivance

(10:10 PM) AEN:         oic..

(10:17 PM) Thusness:            what s4bnw said is quite true. don't argue for nothing. direct path is not for everyone and u have not face the problem yet.

 

..................

 

2007:

 

(10:50 PM) Thusness:

at the more refine level of non dual experience, when the sense of self is gone to a great level, there is absolutely nothing but only everything...what does that mean? many though said so but is still not there even he is already at the level of non dual.

(10:51 PM) AEN:

not where?

(10:51 PM) Thusness:

he must feel completely nothing and only the 'concreteness', 'solidness', realness... must feel the 'solidness' and that is things.... that is awareness

(10:51 PM) AEN:

Oic. Thusness says:

many though said so but is still not there even he is already at the level of non dual. --> huh not where?

(10:52 PM) Thusness:

there are different level of non-dual experience. feeling crystal clarity and 'no one there' is the same as only the solidness, hardness, sound, vividness, realness. that 'sense of self' must be completely gone. :) you must remember this.

(10:55 PM) AEN:

oic.. this is like mindfulness rite

(10:56 PM) Thusness:

so now you know why buddha teach mindfulness? and why advaita din. :) this is important. it is the direct way. you c, the teaching and the practice is in line.

(10:57 PM) AEN:

oic..

(10:57 PM) Thusness:

so non-dual as in no-self. into impermanence and just the manifestation and DO and authenticate this with insight meditation. however it is taught wrongly. :P

(10:58 PM) AEN:

icic

(10:58 PM) Thusness:

but when one experience deeper and understand better, why buddha taught and said those things will become clear. you will realise that advaita always tok about the Self. but when a person tat is enlightened, he doesn't like to use this word. Self is a by-product. it is the production of thought.

 

(11:00 PM) Thusness:

even if you call it Brahman, it is still sinking back to a source. but when one gets clearer and clearer, and know more about manifestation. there is only arising and ceasing of phenomenon according to conditions. that is dharmakaya. it is understood in crystal clarity.

 

(11:02 PM) Thusness:

just understand that there is no self until it sinks to the inmost consciousness. and know the different layers of consciousness but do not think that it is different type of consciousness

 

.........