Voidness of Mind vs Emptiness of Mind

 

Soh Wei Yu

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“All four Tibetan traditions teach practices that search for the mind — where it came from, where it goes, what its shape and color are, and so forth. Speaking of this shared practice, Changkya said that after searching in this manner, we find that the mind is not tangible, lacks color and shape, and does not come from one place or go to another. Discovering this, meditators experience a sensation of voidness. However, this voidness is not the emptiness of inherent existence that is the ultimate reality of the mind; it is the mere absence of the mind being a tangible object.
Although someone may think this voidness is ultimate reality and meditate in that state for a long time, this is not meditation on the ultimate nature of the mind. There are two ways to meditate on the mind. The first is as above, examining whether the mind has color, shape, location, tangibility, and so forth. This leads to the sense that the conventional nature of the mind lacks these qualities. The second is meditation on the ultimate nature of the mind, in which we examine the mind’s ultimate mode of existence and discover its emptiness of inherent existence. People who confuse these two ways of meditating on the mind and think that the mind’s absence of tangibility, color, and so forth is the mind’s ultimate nature may criticize masters such as Dignāga and Dharmakīrti for their precise expositions on debate, logic, and reasoning, saying these only increase preconceptions. Gungtang Konchog Tenpai Dronme (1762–1823), another master who was impartial in his critical analysis of Tibetan Buddhist traditions, said he found this amazing.”

- The Dalai Lama

The voidness of Mind is experienced even in my I AM phase.

The emptiness of inherent existence is realized only later on beginning with the anatta breakthrough.
About anatta, I also wrote years ago,

"I was having a conversation with someone today (he had some history with various practices, vipassana, actual freedom, and recently came across a famous Thai ajahn, etc) who shared about an experience of dissolving into centerless space. I told him what I call anatta is not just being centerless, it is the effulgence and radiance of the transience. That is, regardless of any realization of no-self, and no matter how centerless one feels or how centerless is one's experience of awareness and so forth... still, anything short of direct realization of the radiance or luminosity as the very stuff of transiency is still not what I call the realization of anatta. (And that too is also just an aspect of anatta, and furthermore not yet into the twofold emptying)"

There is no wind besides blowing, no rain besides falling, no awareness besides manifestation.. that is anatta.

(Also see: http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2008/10/sun-of-awareness-and-river-of.html )


    Collin Wong
    Sorry it's not four , it's five hahah


    • Stian Gudmundsen Høiland
    Hey Soh where else was this posted recently?


    Soh Wei Yu
    Stian Gudmundsen Høiland On my profile. But someone deleted his post and off goes all the sub comments of that thread.

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    • Stian Gudmundsen Høiland
    😞 there were some other things posted there as well that I wanted to comment on, but which is not in this post.







    • Soh Wei Yu
    John tan just wrote
    “👍
    I m saying this -- Many can't discern this clearly. The ultimate is merely the emptiness of the conventional. They did not know that there is no ultimate reality behind anything. Hence there is only the wisdom that realizes the nature of the conventional has always been free and in nirvanic peace.
    That is y Mipham came out 2 models of 2 truths. One by the ontological model that is the above, i.e, no ultimate reality found and the other the authentic experience model to differentiate authentic (insubstantial non-dual as ultimate) from delusional experiences. But we have to take note that both authentic and non-authentic experiences are both conventional from the ontological 2 truth model.”

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Shatter the universe

 

    John Tan

    pS4 ah 6t3y9P: iMmi3 61lMa0 
    Enjoy the uninhibited expression in the flow by André A. Pais 👍💪:
    ====================
    I couple of examples, just to make sure you get my point! 🤣
    Sooner or later we can come to realize, for instance in contemplation or meditation, that we aren't any longer - nor perhaps have we ever been - a corporeal being investigating its physical environment or human condition. Instead, there is just experience unveiling itself, knowingness contemplating and questioning its own nature, mere existence or reality touching and (un)mapping itself, luminous appearances displaying information. As we get to this point, no longer tethered by limiting notions of materiality, solidity and embodiment, things can start opening up, unblocking the way to a type of perception where anything can happen and appear. We are no longer a human being inside a physical world in a substantial universe, and therefore a new whole level of insight is possible.
    It's no longer a subject analyzing myriad objects, but a seamless sphere of luminous processing, an unknoting of perception, a release of crystallized categories. It's just an activity of open inquiry moving through and as appearances, an active but gentle flowingness of curiosity. The whole process can become less of a cry for peace and more of a celebration of inquiry itself, the glorification of an ever-deepening wisdom, an upward spiraling love of knowledge.
    ~
    (this following one actually makes sense in this post:)
    If there is no self at all,
    How could it be inside the head,
    Behind the eyes or in the chest?
    Implode notions of in & out,
    Internal or external,
    Subjective & objective,
    Material or mental.
    Dissolve into centerlessness;
    Into borderless experience.
    There is no agent, no observer.
    In this very experience
    There is actually no experiencer.
    Rest in sheer non-dual luminosity.
    In mere unestablished appearance.
    Now, finally,
    Having dropped such notions,
    Transcend their very absence.
    There is neither self
    Nor any lack of it.
    There is no essence
    Nor its emptiness.
    There is no center
    nor non-duality.
    Since a negation still implies
    Its refuted object,
    Drop all views.
    This dropping goes on.
    It goes deeper.
    Endlessly.
    Rest.
    Dissolve.
    Eyes wide open,
    Drop all views
    And shatter the universe.

    11 Comments


    Anurag Jain
    I especially liked the lines, "The whole process can become less of a cry for peace and more of a celebration of inquiry itself, the glorification of an ever-deepening wisdom, an upward soaring love of knowledge"


    John Tan
    Anurag Jain actually I like every sentence. 😁👍


    • Anurag Jain
    John Tan the rest of the sentences are often how enlightenment is sold and thus can be easily copy-pasted. But the sentences that I quoted are known by ones who have really tasted non-dual gnosis.
    At any rate, I too am sharing this whole post in my Advaita group 🙂

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    • Yin Ling
    All is wrote by Andre ?
    It is exceptionally good 😭


    John Tan
    Yin Ling I think so. Have to ask the originator.. Haha...


    • Yin Ling
    John Tan haha it’s okie. I’m just enjoying it nontheless







    • Arthur Deller
    Signatures upon flowing waters. 🙇🏻


    Arthur Deller
    André A. Pais “a couple of examples, just to make sure you get my point”
    This following one actually makes sense in this post. 🤣
    Hahahaha!!!! Ty
    Priceless!


    • André A. Pais
    Those insertions make sense (hopefully) in the thread I posted these on. Here not so much...







    • Arthur Deller
    The absence of absence


    • André A. Pais
    "Uninhibited expression!" 🤣🙏

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