Session Start: Sunday, August 31, 2008
(2:08 PM) Thusness: wah u wrote so much about one taste. :P
(2:08 PM) Thusness: kok ur head!
(2:10 PM) AEN: huh where
(2:10 PM) AEN: lol
(2:10 PM) AEN: i just updated my post
(2:10 PM) AEN: removed some part and added some part
(2:10 PM) Thusness: every place. :P
(2:11 PM) Thusness: next time must do a constant check on the url awakeningtoreality. :P
(2:11 PM) Thusness: One Taste here and there...kok ur head
(2:11 PM) AEN: orh u mean google haha
(2:11 PM) AEN: i tot u mean sgforums
(2:11 PM) Thusness: yeah. Although ken wilber experience is non-dual, it is not exactly One Taste yet.
(2:11 PM) AEN: oic y
(2:11 PM) AEN: one taste include emptiness?
(2:12 PM) Thusness: yes din i tell u?
(2:12 PM) AEN: icic..
(2:13 PM) Thusness: The non-duality of advaita sort of understanding is different from buddhism.
(2:13 PM) Thusness: how could one reaches the phase of One Taste without understanding the emptiness nature?
(2:14 PM) Thusness: The One Taste realisation is of 2 parts: No object/subject split and both object/subject are empty of any inherent existence.
(2:15 PM) AEN: oic..
(2:15 PM) Thusness: Penetrating these 2 aspects, insight arises of the One Taste.
(2:15 PM) Thusness: Since when did i tell u about Advaita sort of understanding is non-dual of Buddhism?
(2:15 PM) AEN: icic..
(2:16 PM) Thusness: So many times I told u it is the empty nature that Buddha came to teach us, not only the luminosity aspect.
(2:16 PM) Thusness: The non-dual luminous nature is described all over the Vedas
(2:17 PM) AEN: oic..
(2:17 PM) Thusness: kok ur head!
(2:18 PM) Thusness: Anyone not talking about the 3 seals, understanding the anatta sort of non-duality is not talking about Buddhism.
(2:19 PM) Thusness: anyone that lead to the understanding of Brahman is deluded in Buddhist perspective. The One Mind, the One Reality is the non-inherent in nature.
(2:19 PM) Thusness: it should not be understood from a dualistic and inherent perspective.
(2:19 PM) AEN: oic but ken wilber talk about brahman meh :P
(2:20 PM) Thusness: Yes.
(2:20 PM) AEN: oic
(2:21 PM) Thusness: Therefore the experience is non-dual but the insight isn't.
(2:21 PM) AEN: icic..
(2:23 PM) AEN: so next time i shld show them the charlie singer article instead :P
(2:23 PM) Thusness: Charlie still need further refinement but it is already very good.
(2:24 PM) Thusness: There are not many good articles.
(2:24 PM) AEN: oic..
(2:24 PM) Thusness: Many do not have the clarity of the differences
(2:25 PM) Thusness: They are unable to discern correctly the difference. In terms of experience and insight.
(2:25 PM) AEN: icic..
(2:25 PM) Thusness: U have to be careful when telling ppl.
(2:25 PM) Thusness: Fortunately u always quoted the bahiya sutta...haahah
(2:26 PM) AEN: oic.. haha
(2:26 PM) Thusness: it is both. :)
(2:26 PM) AEN: wat u mean both
(2:26 PM) Thusness: both non-dual in terms of experience and insight
(2:26 PM) AEN: oic..
(2:28 PM) AEN: the insight means theres insight into emptiness
(2:28 PM) AEN: ?
(2:28 PM) Thusness: yes
(2:28 PM) Thusness: so far the best to me is still Ajahn Amaro. In terms of practical insight and experience.
(2:29 PM) Thusness: Clear and precise.
(2:29 PM) AEN: oic
(2:29 PM) AEN: but u said his e book not so gd?
(2:29 PM) Thusness: But that 'source' must be fully replaced with DO.
(2:29 PM) AEN: oic
(2:29 PM) Thusness: yes.
(2:29 PM) Thusness: That is the only problem.
(2:29 PM) Thusness: But he is still not wrong.
(2:29 PM) AEN: why not wrong
(2:29 PM) Thusness: The "I" is just a luminous clarity.
(2:30 PM) Thusness: In his mind, there is no sense of independence but still not thorough.
(2:30 PM) AEN: oic..
(2:31 PM) Thusness: Means he knows what Awareness is exactly. Therefore when he said "I AM", u should not mistake him as referring to that stage 1.
(2:31 PM) Thusness: Though to him it is the same.
(2:32 PM) Thusness: But he is using it as if a practitioner has understood the full insight of emptiness and non-duality
(2:32 PM) Thusness: It is not the same.
(2:32 PM) AEN: icic..
(2:32 PM) Thusness: But to him, he is not aware of that point.
(2:32 PM) Thusness: It is not obvious to him.
(2:32 PM) Thusness: That is my opinion.
(2:33 PM) AEN: he is not aware of what
(2:33 PM) Thusness: That the experience of "I AM" is different.
(2:33 PM) AEN: but u said in the ebook is still quite dualistic rite
(2:33 PM) Thusness: yes
(2:33 PM) AEN: i tink he said something like oil and water
(2:33 PM) AEN: are separate
(2:33 PM) Thusness: yes
(2:33 PM) Thusness: i will talk about that later.
(2:34 PM) Thusness: means he cannot rest in the phenomena...
(2:34 PM) Thusness: the arising and ceasing
(2:34 PM) Thusness: why so?
(2:34 PM) Thusness: because of certain 'block' still.
(2:34 PM) Thusness: that 'block' must be completely gone.
(2:34 PM) AEN: oic..
(2:35 PM) Thusness: sames goes to Charlie Singer
(2:35 PM) Thusness: Seems almost there but not there. :P
(2:35 PM) AEN: why not
(2:35 PM) Thusness: Don't go everywhere say that i say hah...
(2:35 PM) AEN: oic
(2:35 PM) Thusness: The mirror is still there. :)
(2:36 PM) AEN: icic..
(2:36 PM) Thusness: what is appearance to him?
(2:36 PM) Thusness: seems like awareness yet not.
(2:36 PM) Thusness: seems like merely a reflection
(2:36 PM) Thusness: apparition
(2:36 PM) Thusness: of a mirror
(2:37 PM) AEN: oic..
(2:37 PM) AEN: but we can use that analogy for its emptiness?
(2:37 PM) Thusness: yes but unfortunately in terms of experience, it is not
(2:38 PM) Thusness: means the nature of an arising is not thoroughly experienced.
(2:38 PM) Thusness: and he is right.
(2:38 PM) Thusness: one needs to go through until this nature is fully and completely understood.
(2:38 PM) AEN: oic..
(2:40 PM) Thusness: What are the 2 truths of egolessness about?
(2:40 PM) AEN: emptiness of self and phenomena?
(2:40 PM) Thusness: yes
(2:40 PM) Thusness: subject and object
(2:40 PM) Thusness: if there is no background, no "ITness" to be found as 'Self/self'
(2:41 PM) Thusness: and there is no 'ITness' to be found in object or attributes
(2:41 PM) Thusness: 'What is' is mere Appearances
(2:42 PM) Thusness: there is no 'redness' in flower or any 'ITness' found anywhere
(2:42 PM) Thusness: both as 'Self' and 'Object' of identification
(2:42 PM) Thusness: So what is there?
(2:43 PM) AEN: awareness as appearances?
(2:43 PM) Thusness: Yes.
(2:43 PM) Thusness: There is only appearances
(2:43 PM) Thusness: and we do not know that this Appearance is our Buddha Nature in real time.
(2:44 PM) Thusness: There is a 'block' because the direct experience is not strong and thorough enough.
(2:44 PM) Thusness: There will come a time when total clarity dawn, there is no more doubt.
(2:45 PM) Thusness: Because of this 'Block', there is still traces of an independent 'I'.
(2:45 PM) Thusness: And there is no One Taste. :)
(2:45 PM) AEN: oic..
(2:47 PM) Thusness: Think I will write my opinion about it.
(2:47 PM) AEN: okie
(2:48 PM) Thusness: Actually I do not like to comment on these articles because it often leads to disputes and arguments.
(2:48 PM) Thusness: :P
(2:48 PM) AEN: no la
(2:48 PM) AEN: dun tink it will
(2:48 PM) AEN: our forum like v quiet
(2:48 PM) AEN: haha
(2:48 PM) Thusness: ahaha...
(2:49 PM) Thusness: it is for practice sake
(2:49 PM) Thusness: for experience sake
(2:49 PM) Thusness: not to create noise in ur forum
(2:49 PM) AEN: icic..
(2:51 PM) Thusness: have u finished reading 'The Sun, My Heart'?
(2:53 PM) AEN: nope
(2:53 PM) AEN: i read slowly one leh
(2:53 PM) AEN: maybe one chapter or less a day
(2:53 PM) AEN: haha
(2:53 PM) AEN: thats why i always take a long time to finish a bk
(2:53 PM) AEN: u wan to get from me isit
(2:55 PM) Thusness: yeah
(2:55 PM) Thusness: how is it?
(2:55 PM) Thusness: have u read it?
(2:57 PM) AEN: not a lot yet
(2:57 PM) AEN: i think shld be quite gd
(3:03 PM) AEN: namdrol also recommend clarifying the natural state for mahamudra :P "
Must reads are Clarifying the Natural State and Moonlight, Quintessence of Mind and Meditation. As for Buddhist magazines, I can't really say any of them are particularly bad or good-- they are for the most part lineage marketing material; and in the case of Tricycle, it is aimed at Barnes and Nobles Buddhists i.e. the authors you find at B&N are the authors you see in its pages."
(3:04 PM) Thusness: ic
(3:04 PM) AEN: no no
(3:04 PM) AEN: the orange book u had
(3:05 PM) AEN: last time we discussed b4 mah
(3:05 PM) AEN: that one is another one.. is not dzogchen, is mahamudra
(3:05 PM) Thusness: oh...yeah
(3:05 PM) Thusness: that one is good.
(3:05 PM) AEN: ic ya
(3:05 PM) Thusness: yeah...remembered.
(3:06 PM) AEN: theres another book, a thicker one... by dakpo tashi namgyal, i think more thorough. called Moonlight, Quintessence of Mind and Meditation
(3:06 PM) Thusness: ic
(3:06 PM) AEN: oh btw
(3:06 PM) AEN: wat u tink about this article http://www.iol.ie/~taeger/mahamud/mahamud.html
(3:16 PM) Thusness: not bad.
(3:16 PM) AEN: icic..
(3:17 PM) Thusness: but u know vajrayana got recognition by certain authority is important.
(3:17 PM) Thusness: lol
(3:17 PM) Thusness: I do not like to comment about that. I am only interested in practical experience.
(3:17 PM) AEN: wat u mean got recognition by certain authority is important.
(3:18 PM) Thusness: means lineage is important lah
(3:18 PM) Thusness: for me, i have no interest in this sort of stuff.
(3:18 PM) Thusness: as long as the practitioner shows direct experience of our luminous and empty nature, he is a true practitioner
(3:19 PM) Thusness: at my current stage, i am vividly clear of that Buddha's teaching is the way towards liberation.
(3:19 PM) Thusness: There is no doubt in my experience and practice and Buddha's teaching.
(3:20 PM) Thusness: I am not particularly concerned about authority. :)
(3:20 PM) AEN: oic..
(3:22 PM) Thusness: where u get this url from?
(3:22 PM) AEN: dunnu leh
(3:22 PM) AEN: found somewhere then i save it in my browser
(3:22 PM) Thusness: seach from the web?
(3:22 PM) AEN: think so