Din posted:
“There is that sphere, monks, where there is no earth, no water, no fire, no air, no sphere of infinite space, no sphere of infinite consciousness, no sphere of nothingness, no sphere of neither perception nor non-perception, no this world, no world beyond, neither Moon nor Sun. There, monks, I say there is surely no coming, no going, no persisting, no passing away, no rebirth. It is quite without support, unmoving, without an object,—just this is the end of suffering.”
~Nibbana Sutta - The first Discourse.

I replied:
Actually what the Buddha taught here is easily misunderstood as formless awareness but that is not what he meant.
Buddha:
“‘He has been stilled where the currents of supposition do not flow. And when the currents of supposition do not flow, he is said to be a sage at peace.’ Thus it was said. With reference to what was it said? ‘I am’ is a supposition. ‘I am this’ is a supposition. ‘I shall be’ is a supposition. ‘I shall not be’ … ‘I shall be possessed of form’ … ‘I shall not be possessed of form’ … ‘I shall be percipient’ … ‘I shall not be percipient’ … ‘I shall be neither percipient nor non-percipient’ is a supposition. Supposition is a disease, supposition is a cancer, supposition is an arrow. By going beyond all supposition, he is called a sage at peace.
“And further, a sage at peace is not born, does not age, does not die, is unagitated, and is free from longing. He has nothing whereby he would be born. Not being born, will he age? Not aging, will he die? Not dying, will he be agitated? Not being agitated, for what will he long? It was in reference to this that it was said, ‘He has been stilled where the currents of supposition do not flow. And when the currents of supposition do not flow, he is said to be a sage at peace.’ Now, monk, you should remember this, my brief analysis of the six properties.”
...
““Then, Bāhiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bāhiya, there is no you in connection with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress.”2
Through hearing this brief explanation of the Dhamma from the Blessed One, the mind of Bāhiya of the Bark-cloth right then and there was released from effluents through lack of clinging/sustenance. Having exhorted Bāhiya of the Bark-cloth with this brief explanation of the Dhamma, the Blessed One left.
Now, not long after the Blessed One’s departure, Bāhiya was attacked & killed by a cow with a young calf. Then the Blessed One, having gone for alms in Sāvatthī, after the meal, returning from his alms round with a large number of monks, saw that Bāhiya had died. On seeing him, he said to the monks, “Take Bāhiya’s body, monks, and, placing it on a litter and carrying it away, cremate it and build him a memorial. Your companion in the holy life has died.”
Responding, “As you say, lord,” to the Blessed One, the monks–placing Bāhiya’s body on a litter, carrying it away, cremating it, and building him a memorial–went to the Blessed One. On arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As they were sitting there, they said to him, “Bāhiya’s body has been cremated, lord, and his memorial has been built. What is his destination? What is his future state?”
“Monks, Bāhiya of the Bark-cloth was wise. He practiced the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma and did not pester me with issues related to the Dhamma. Bāhiya of the Bark-cloth, monks, is totally unbound.”
Then, on realizing the significance of that, the Blessed One on that occasion exclaimed:
Where water, earth,
fire, & wind
have no footing:
There the stars don’t shine,
the sun isn’t visible.
There the moon doesn’t appear.
There darkness is not found.
And when a sage,
a brahman through sagacity,
has realized [this] for himself,
then from form & formless,
from bliss & pain,
he is freed.”
.......
John tan/thusness, 2013:
To Jax:
The place where there is no earth, fire, wind, space, water…
is the place where the earth, fire, wind, space and water kills “You” and fully shines as its own radiance, a complete taste of itself and fully itself.
Lastly, it is interesting to get know something about Dzogchen however the jargons and tenets are far beyond me.
Just wrote due to a sudden spurt of interest, nothing intense.
Thanks for all the sharing and exchanges.
Gone!
.......
A monk asked Tozan, “When cold and heat come, how can we avoid them?”
Tozan said, “Why don’t you go to the place where there is no cold or heat?”
The monk said, “What is the place where there is no cold or heat?”
Tozan said, “When it’s cold, the cold kills you; when it’s hot, the heat kills you.”
This is not advice to “accept” your situation, as some commentators have suggested, but a direct expression of authentic practice and enlightenment. Master Tozan is not saying, “When cold, shiver; when hot, sweat,” nor is he saying, “When cold, put on a sweater; when hot, use a fan.” In the state of authentic practice and enlightenment, the cold kills you, and there is only cold in the whole universe. The heat kills you, and there is only heat in the whole universe. The fragrance of incense kills you, and there is only the fragrance of incense in the whole universe. The sound of the bell kills you, and there is only “boooong” in the whole universe…
~The Flatbed Sutra of Louie Wing, Ted Biringer
....
“In our bustling daily life we may feel that we have neither the time nor place to listen quietly, to look freshly. But if we are truly interested in a place and time to listen, an opportunity will present itself. It is one of the amazing graces of being alive that when there is a small flame of yearning to find out, we unexpectedly come upon a bench to sit on out in the open and realize that there is more space in this universe than the tight cocoon we have lived in all our life.

With renewed questioning comes new wondering and listening. Heaven and earth are open in simply being here as we are, breathing in and out with an airplane humming in the sky—the miracle of this moment! Nothing is separate. Everything is here as it is, utterly simple. No one is here to lay any claim to it.

...

Open listening embraces all the senses as one whole perception. There is no division between looking, listening, smelling, touching, or tasting—just undivided openness of all senses perceiving as one whole without a separate me at work. There is no doer and no recipient here—just spontaneous presence without fragmentation.

...

Is it our task to find out whether or not there is total and complete enlightenment like the Buddha proclaimed? I always liked the Buddha’s saying: “I truly attained nothing from complete, unexcelled enlightenment, and that is why it is called complete, unexcelled enlightenment.” No-thing, no one to attain it, spaceless space, no one there to occupy it. Just alive presence with the evening star in the sky. Dying to all the stuff imagined and clung to about oneself—what I am, what I was, what I will be, what I could be, should be . . . Can we see all concepts as concepts with deepening clarity and wisdom? Not immediately lurching toward something promised in the future that has its sole existence in thought? Can we clearly discern what constitutes thinking and what is actually present right here without needing to think it? Can we discern it effortlessly? The open windows, fresh air touching the skin, bright sunshine everywhere, all kinds of twittering sounds, crows calling and breathing, pulsating life! Caw, caw, caw, caw . . . Sensations throughout the body, breathing, beholding it, not the words, but the aliveness of it all. Can we realize now that “complete unexcelled enlightenment” is a concept?”

~ Toni Packer, The Wonder of Presence

... 
Do you see now that Buddha is not speaking about formless awareness but the insight into the absence of self/Self thus putting an end to the deluded sense of Being that drives craving and rebirth in samsara?
The place where the five elements do not land is simply the place where the earth, fire, wind, space and water kills “You” and fully shines as its own radiance, a complete taste of itself and fully itself.
....

• Din Robinson is this also called "The Great Cessation"?
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  Soh Wei Yu Din Robinson
  
  Yes
  
  http://measurelessmind.ca/nirodhasanna.html
  
  The Recognition of Cessation (Nirodhasaññā)
  
  For whom there is neither a far shore,
  Nor a near shore, nor both,
  Who is free from distress, without ties,
  Him I call a brāhmaṇa.
  
  — Dhammapada 385
  When the recognition of dispassion is fully developed and realized, and with no self to be found, nothing to be identified with, one realizes the gnosis and vision of liberation (vimuttiñāṇadassana). This is non-referential inner peace (ajjhattasanti). This is the full recognition of cessation. AN 10.60 Girimānanda Sutta:
  Now what, Ānanda, is the recognition of cessation? Here, Ānanda, a monk, gone to the wilderness, to the root of a tree, or to an empty place, discriminates thus: ‘This is peace, this is excellent, that is: the calming of all fabrications, the release of all acquisitions, the elimination of craving, cessation, nibbāna.’ This, Ānanda, is called the recognition of cessation.
  This is the complete absence of agitation (calita natthi). Ud 8.4 Nibbāna Sutta:
  There being no agitation, there is tranquility. There being tranquility, there is no inclination. There being no inclination, there is no coming or going. There being no coming or going, there is no passing away or arising. There being no passing away or arising, there is neither a here nor a beyond nor a between-the-two. Just this is the end of unsatisfactoriness.
  This is the calming of all specific fabrication and volitional intention. MN 140 Dhātuvibhaṅga Sutta:
  One does not form any specific fabrication or volitional intention towards either existence or non-existence. Not forming any specific fabrication or volitional intention towards either existence or non-existence, he does not cling to anything in this world. Not clinging, he is not excited. Unexcited, he personally attains complete nibbāna. He discerns that, ‘Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, done is what had to be done, there is nothing further here.’
  This is the freedom of absence which is revealed through the complete recognition of selflessness. Ud 1.10 Bāhiya Sutta:
  ‘The seen will be merely the seen, the heard will be merely the heard, the sensed will be merely the sensed, the known will be merely the known.’ This is how you should train, Bāhiya.
  
  When, Bāhiya, for you the seen will be merely the seen, the heard will be merely the heard, the sensed will be merely the sensed, the known will be merely the known, then Bāhiya, you will not be that. When, Bāhiya, you are not that, then Bāhiya, you will not be there. When, Bāhiya, you are not there, then Bāhiya, you will be neither here nor beyond nor between-the-two. Just this is the end of unsatisfactoriness.
  This is noble liberation which is the elimination of craving and clinging. MN 106 Āneñjasappāya Sutta:
  This is death-free, namely, the liberation of mind through not clinging.
  This is the effortless clarity of consciousness which is non-abiding and not established (appatiṭṭha viññāṇa). SN 22.53 Upaya Sutta:
  When that consciousness is not established, not increasing, not concocting, it is liberated. Being liberated, it is steady. Being steady, it is content. Being content, he is not excited. Unexcited, he personally attains complete nibbāna. He discerns that, ‘Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, done is what had to be done, there is nothing further here.’
  There is no more seeking of any kind. There is no more personal agenda. There is no identifying with any phenomena or turning anything into a fixed reference point. There is no “here” nor “beyond” nor “between-the-two.”
  The awakened mind is measureless (appamāṇacetasa), free from any sort of measuring (pamāṇa). In evocative terms, an awakened one is deep (gambhīra), boundless (appameyya), and fathomless (duppariyogāḷha). Utterly free from any reference to specifically fabricated consciousness (viññāṇasaṅkhayavimutta). “Gone” (atthaṅgata), the measureless mind is untraceable (ananuvejja) even here and now. It doesn’t abide in the head, or in the body, or anywhere else for that matter. It doesn’t have size or shape. It’s not an object or a subject.
  Just as the sky is formless and non-illustrative, the measureless mind is non-illustrative and non-indicative (anidassana). This effortless clarity is unmediated by any specific fabrication or volitional intention. It is unaffected knowing: The seen is merely the seen (diṭṭhamatta). The heard is merely the heard (sutamatta). The sensed is merely the sensed (mutamatta). The known is merely the known (viññātamatta). But there is no you there. Of course, this liberating gnosis and vision can’t adequately be pointed out or indicated by words alone. It is to be individually experienced (paccatta veditabba).
  
  The Recognition of Cessation and the Seven Factors of Awakening (Satta Bojjhaṅgā)
  
  Sustained, dedicated practice of the recognition of cessation will gradually create the optimal conditions for the arising of all seven factors of awakening. SN 46.76 Nirodha Sutta (abridged):
  Here monks, a monk develops the awakening factor of mindfulness accompanied by the recognition of cessation, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of dhamma-investigation accompanied by the recognition of cessation, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of energy accompanied by the recognition of cessation, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of joy accompanied by the recognition of cessation, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of tranquility accompanied by the recognition of cessation, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of meditative composure accompanied by the recognition of cessation, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of equanimity accompanied by the recognition of cessation, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go.
  
  It is in this way that the recognition of cessation is developed and cultivated so that it is of great fruit and benefit. It is in this way that the recognition of cessation is developed and cultivated so that one of two fruits is to be expected: either final gnosis in this very life or, if there is a residue of clinging, the state of nonreturning. It is in this way that the recognition of cessation is developed and cultivated so that it leads to great good. It is in this way that the recognition of cessation is developed and cultivated so that it leads to great security from bondage. It is in this way that the recognition of cessation is developed and cultivated so that it leads to a great sense of urgency. It is in this way that the recognition of cessation is developed and cultivated so that it leads to dwelling in great comfort.
• measurelessmind.ca

  The Recognition of Cessation | Nirodhasaññā

  The Recognition of Cessation | Nirodhasaññā

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  Soh Wei Yu http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../great-resource...
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  awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com

  Great Resource of Buddha's Teachings

  Great Resource of Buddha's Teachings

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  Din Robinson Soh Wei Yu I actually asked the same question of Jackson Peterson and he told me no, said there was never anything there to begin with that could "cease"
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  Soh Wei Yu Din Robinson
  
  In the early tradition of Buddhism as taught by Buddha, the emphasis is on 'Cessation'. But this cessation is not about ceasing sense perception, rather Nirvana is precisely defined by Buddha as having these characteristics: 1) Cessation of all clinging 2) Cessation of all identity - I Am, I shall be, I have been, I am the Witness, etc - the Buddha listed all possible ways of identification and refuted them all 3) Cessation of passion (craving), aggression (anger), delusion 4) With the cessation of the three poisons in number 3., comes the cessation of rebirth in samsara, as rebirth in samsara is predicated upon the three poisons. The cessation of these delusions occur even while one is fully aware in waking state - therefore 'in the seen only the seen' -- in fact there is only seeing, no seer, and also no seeing as seeing is just colors. No you.
  
  All these characteristics of Nirvana are interlinked.
  
  Then about 500 years after the passing of Buddha, the Mahayana teachings developed and emphasized Bodhicitta - the compassionate aspiration for not only one's personal liberation but the attainment of full awakening of Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings. In this tradition, the emphasis is that samsara - the world of experience - is fundamentally non-arisen, quiescent and equal to cessation, fundamentally no different from nirvana as it is non-arising, non-abiding and unceasing. This is because whatever originates in dependence is fundamentally non-arisen, an example would be a reflection of moon on water or a rainbow. Due to various conditions a reflection appears but we cannot say that a moon has truly arisen or been created in the water. Whatever originates in dependence are free of the extremes of existence or non-existence, arising and ceasing. The nature of appearance is merely empty clarity, free of extremes. The nature of conventions is such that they are dependently designated and fundamentally empty of essence/substance and unfindable when sought, just like the analogy of chariot and parts.
  
  So there are three parts to emptiness 1) conventions are empty of essence and substance, entities and mental constructs are empty and unfindable when sought, non-arisen, 2) the nature of all appearance are empty-clarity free from the extremes of existence and non-existence, 3) whatever originates in dependence are fundamentally non-arising and non-ceasing.
  
  Now, the early and later traditions do not contradict each other. I would say they are complementary. The Mahayana tradition simply expands upon the insight of emptiness that the Buddha already taught in the Pali canon (like Phena Sutta, Kaccayanagotta Sutta, Dhammapada, etc) with greater emphasis and clarification because it tends to be misunderstood and misinterpreted by some 'Hinayana' commentators.
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  Soh Wei Yu In the Mahayana tradition ala Lankavatara Sutra, it is taught that the Arahat of the early tradition is equivalent to the 8th bhumi stage of the Mahayana Bodhisattva in terms of eliminating all emotional obscurations (passion, aggression, delusion) through realizing and actualizing the emptiness of person (subjective self), while the end of the 10th bhumi culminates in the end of not only emotional obscurations but also all cognitive obscurations that misapprehends that there is true existence of phenomena by clearly realizing the right view of emptiness of all subject-action-object and the empty nature of phenomena. Then one attains Buddhahood, when all emotional + cognitive obscurations are eliminated through the eye of omniscience that apprehends the nature of all phenomena completely without hindrance. Emptiness of subjective person/self clears away emotional obscuration, while emptiness of phenomena clears away cognitive obscuration.
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