Ultimately Unfindable, Conventionally Distinct

[1:59 PM, 12/6/2019] Soh Wei Yu: Kyle Dixon in Nonsectarian Dzogchen Atiyoga & Mahamudra:
"The real difference is that in Dzogchen, appearances are 'non-existent clear appearances' [med par gsal snang].

Not mind because they are ultimately unfindable, and then distinct on the level of convention."
[5:44 PM, 12/6/2019] John Tan: Meaning?
[7:15 PM, 12/6/2019] Soh Wei Yu: To dzogchen, mind and appearance are ultimately unfindable, but distinct conventionally
[7:15 PM, 12/6/2019] Soh Wei Yu: Therefore they are not same in dzogchen
[7:55 PM, 12/6/2019] John Tan: That is correct and accurate
[7:57 PM, 12/6/2019] John Tan: Actually when we say appearance is mind, it is an experiential taste.  Conventionally it should treated as distinct and DO [dependently originating].
[7:58 PM, 12/6/2019] John Tan: However even saying they r different is incorrect.
[7:59 PM, 12/6/2019] John Tan: Language cannot define this relationship appropriately ...
[7:59 PM, 12/6/2019] John Tan: Therefore 2 truth
[8:00 PM, 12/6/2019] John Tan: Also it is true to talk abt emptiness
[8:00 PM, 12/6/2019] John Tan: Appear and not-found
[8:01 PM, 12/6/2019] John Tan: Rather than to talk about it as if we r talking about One Mind.