- Reply
- 7h
[12:17 AM, 8/5/2020] John Tan: I like guy newland.
[12:18 AM, 8/5/2020] John Tan: Dzogchen, madhyamaka from Nyingma perspective...he choose mipham beacon of certainty
[12:19 AM, 8/5/2020] John Tan: Go watch
[12:34 AM, 8/5/2020] John Tan: Damn happy listening to this youtube
[9:09 PM, 8/4/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Just saw this in chnn book [Crystal and the Way of Light]:
we
could even go so far as to say that, essentially, in Dzogchen, the Base
is the primordial state, the Path is the primordial state, and the
Fruit is the primordial state—and that there is thus a perfect
continuity between them in that they all refer to the same thing: the
true condition of the individual and the universe.
[11:34 PM, 8/4/2020] John Tan: Yes.
[11:37 PM, 8/4/2020] John Tan: Practice as if you r buddha but u r not yet Buddha.
[11:38 PM, 8/4/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[11:41 PM, 8/4/2020] John Tan: I think U pasted to me right? Something like result is taken as the basis.
[11:42 PM, 8/4/2020] John Tan: So not from the view that life is impermanent, no-self and suffering.
[12:14 AM, 8/5/2020] Soh Wei Yu: What do u mean
[12:14
AM, 8/5/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Oh taking buddha nature rather than
impermanence no self suffering as basis and path of practicing?
[12:15 AM, 8/5/2020] John Tan: Yes
[12:34 AM, 8/5/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Do you mean these excerpts by Malcolm:
There
are two ways be free of grasping: regarding all things as impure and
rejecting them as such (Hinayāna and common Mahāyāna), and regarding all
things as pure and accepting them as such. The latter method more
rapid, but requires special methods, so that it is not merely an
intellectual posture.
...
In sūtra there is no antidotal
method of conceiving the appearance of things as pure which are
typically conceived by ordinary sentient being as impure. Emptiness, in
sutra, is provided as cure for this, in terms of nature, but not in
terms of appearance. Vajrayāna address both nature and appearance; sūtra
only addresses nature, not appearance.
...
In common
Mahāyāna, like Hinayāna schools, relatively speaking, phenomena, other
than path dharmas, are still compounded, suffering, and not-self, and
hence impure. Their ultimate nature, emptiness, is pure.
In
uncommon Mahāyāna Secret Mantra, phenomena are rendered pure through
special methods which change our attitude towards phenomena.
[12:34 AM, 8/5/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Ok
[12:35 AM, 8/5/2020] John Tan: Yeah
In the Pali suttas, clinging and appropriation are not equated with the sheer aggregates ( https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN44.html ), and as Stian mentioned, he thinks aggregates are almost never mentioned in the sense of 'sheer aggregates' in the Pali canon. I think you get glimpses of how are 'sheer aggregates experienced by Buddha/arahants' in scriptures like Bahiya Sutta and Kalaka Sutta. In any case, the appropriation is what causes suffering, and the end of appropriation is the end of suffering.
[11:32 AM, 8/2/2020] John Tan: Mmk [Mūlamadhyamakakārikā] also
Re: The 3 marks of what, exactly?
Unread post by vinasp » Sun May 21, 2017 11:55 am
Hi everyone,
"Bhikkhus, form is impermanent, feeling is impermanent, perception is impermanent, volitional formations are impermanent, consciousness is impermanent....." SN 22.12
“Bhikkhus, form is suffering, feeling is suffering, perception is suffering, volitional formations are suffering, consciousness is suffering....." SN 22.13
“Bhikkhus, form is nonself, feeling is nonself, perception is nonself, volitional formations are nonself, consciousness is nonself....." SN 22.14
These may appear to be talking about the five aggregates, but I think that the five clinging aggregates are meant. All three continue in this way:
"Seeing thus, bhikkhus, the instructed noble disciple experiences revulsion towards form, revulsion towards feeling, revulsion towards perception, revulsion towards volitional formations, revulsion towards consciousness. Experiencing revulsion, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion his mind is liberated. When it is liberated there comes the knowledge: ‘It’s liberated.’ He understands: ‘Destroyed is birth, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more for this state of being.’”
Clearly, the aggregates mentioned at the start are those of an unliberated individual.
Another possibility is that 'form is suffering', and the rest, are not meant to be understood as ontological statements, but as how these things should be regarded. This explains 'seeing thus' as what leads to liberation.
Actual form is experienced, but the 'form aggregate' may mean a habit of regarding form in the wrong way, as permanent, a source of pleasure, and in relation to a self. If so, then the form aggregate will vanish when seen in the right way.
It seems that the discourses do not always make an explicit distinction between the aggregates and the clinging aggregates.
Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi, while not entirely rejecting the distinction, follows the Abhidhamma and Commentaries, arguing that the Arahant is still described by clinging aggregates.
Perhaps we should assume that almost all teaching on the aggregates is about the five clinging aggregates.
Regards, Vincent.
....
A. From MN 44, the Culavedalla Sutta, The Shorter Series of Questions and Answers
Scene: Householder Visakha has a Q&A with Bukkhuni Dhammadina
2. “Lady…What is called identity by the Blessed One?”
“Friend Visakha, the five aggregates affected by clinging are called identity by the Blessed One; that is, the material form aggregate affected by clinging, the feeling aggregate affected by clinging, the perception aggregate affected by clinging, the mental formations aggregate affected by clinging, and the consciousness aggregate affected by clinging.”
7. “Lady, how does identity view come to be?”
“Here, friend Visakha, an untaught person regards …material form as self, or self as possessed of material form…..feeling as self, or self as possessed of feeling…. He regards perceptions as self or as self possessed of perceptions…. mental formations as self, or self as possessed of mental formations…. consciousness as self, or self as possessed of consciousness….”
8. “Lady, how does identity view not come to be?”
“Here, friend Visakha, a well-taught noble disciple, who has regard for the noble ones and is skilled and disciplined in their Dhamma….does not regard feeling as self or self as of possessed of feeling…. He does not regard perceptions as self or self as possessed of perception….He does not regard material form as self or self as possessed of material form….he does not regard mental formations as self…..does not regard consciousness as self….”
- Reply
- Remove Preview
- 7h
- Reply
- 7h
- Reply
- Remove Preview
- 7h
"The five senses arising with their objects are unimpeded radiance.
What is born from not grasping at objects is the unborn basic state.
Attachment to appearances may be unceasing but reverse it: meditate naturally settled.
Empty appearances arising free from the intellect is the path of natural expressions.
Do not see appearances as problems, let go of clinging.
There will come a time when you will arrive in the valley of one taste meditation." - Yang Gönpa
Oatmilk:
Thanks much!
Soh:
Hmm.. I didn't start a
journal until I attained Self-Realization aka Thusness Stage 1. After
that realization, on the advice of Thusness (my mentor John Tan), I
started writing my insights and experiences. It later exploded into a
too-long-to-read journal which you can find in my blog, along with
another exploding too-long-to-read guide that needs a lot of editing and
trimming which I have no time for.
But when self enquiring, just
inquire and contemplate the very nature of your
mind/consciousness/experience honestly and sincerely and earnestly.
Don't think of writing down for that moment because that can lead to
more conceptualization, not that it is very bad but for the purpose of
practice that's not the right time to do so. Just inquire into the
source, or whatever is your subject of contemplation. For self enquiry
ala Advaita or Hua Tou, just inquire into the Source -- before birth,
who am I?
The same for whatever practices you are doing, be it
vipassana, shamatha, etc. When practicing just do the practice, nothing
else, then write later if you feel there is something worthy to
write/take note/etc, be it lessons, insights, experiences, whatever.
In future when you have certain breakthroughs and insights, it might be
good to write something down to clarify your thoughts, expression, and
for other purposes like future reference and sharing. My advise is try
not to be constrained by the technicalities of scriptures but express
creatively from your moment to moment actualization of lived insights.
(Although I do recommend reading scriptures, just not to be constrained
by learnt knowledge and words you read)
"But you're expected
to live as this vibrant brilliance, non-arising clarity. Or awareness.
Uncontrieved. You're expected to feel the entire energy, entire
aliveness, brilliance. It's not something that is dead. So you should
look back the things that you write, what is called the mind level, what
is called *snaps* you understood. They're different. So that next time
when you try to say, you are not trying to explain something. You can
explain certain things, but certain things you cannot explain and teach.
Certain things you can teach, certain things the more you teach the
worse it becomes.
Certain things, like Not relying on words or letters.
An independent transmission outside the teaching of the scriptures.
Directly pointing to man's Mind.
Awakening of one's (Original-) Nature, thereby actualizing one's own Buddhahood.
Cannot...
the less words, the better. It is just a face to face communication. In
that communication, you have to observe the entire conditions, then !
You understood. This is then important. Everything is very raw, first
hand, then when you feel it, your entire body-mind burst, and that's it.
You understood. Then it becomes very alive. You feel and do
everything... it's all these aliveness. Marvellous. Your understanding
is all direct. And when you understand that moment, it is a heart to
heart... you feel deep inside your heart. But you must learn how to
release. Because also when you feel direct, there is also a problem.
Because it touch deeper. So you must know how to release." - John Tan,
2012,
https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/p/a-conversation-with-john-tan-some-time.html
[3:03 PM, 4/22/2019] John Tan: Dogen Expressions is full of life and creativity.
[11:36
PM, 7/11/2020] John Tan: I find u r restricted to the teachings, u must
be able to walk out the constrains and restrictions. Once u r directly
Intouch with connected, open up ur potential.
[11:40 PM, 7/11/2020]
John Tan: And don't kept discussing and engaging in idle conversations.
Also don't keep talking abt me, I do not need ppl to know abt me...I m
quite popular already in my own business and financial space... Dun need
any more fame🤣🤣🤣. Spiritual development is own personal development. Funny keep talking.
[9:04
AM, 7/12/2020] John Tan: Although tibetan buddhism mostly talk abt
seeing DO and emptiness of all phenomena, u must also see how by being
empty of essence, dynamism and creativity r made possible.
Look
at zen, enlightenment is full of vibrancy, intuitiveness and
creativity. So see the creative sparks, playfulness and spontaneous
blosoming of life in each and every expression from anatta.
The
ancient chinese sages continuously gain precious insights from exploring
the nature of yin yang 5 elements and understand the patterns of the
universe to understand more about oneself. This is also true in
Confucianism, 格物致知 is an important concept for them.
So post
anatta, one must not only see the freedom from attachments from
emptiness, but must also taste directly the spontaneous creativity and
potentialities by being lack of essence. This part I still see lacking
in ur expression.
[3:31 PM, 7/12/2020] John Tan: I m
referring to actual creativity . When u see, think, taste...the sparks
of insights, ur creative expression, joy in exploring and new skills,
learning new things..etc
[3:34 PM, 7/12/2020] John Tan: Post anatta, u must feel this potential dancing vibrantly as energetic display and expression.
[3:36
PM, 7/12/2020] John Tan: Even when I sit quietly now, radiance r
piercing through everywhere dancing now...that is y I do yoga and
breathing exercises to regulate.
[3:38 PM, 7/12/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Yeah i also feel bright radiance all the time..
[3:38 PM, 7/12/2020] Soh Wei Yu: And joy
[3:39
PM, 7/12/2020] John Tan: Like in ur piotr conversations, I wanted to
tell u the importance of y leg over head is important for opening
channels if u r mindful but because I know u will post here and there I
refrain from writing.
[3:40 PM, 7/12/2020] John Tan: I just don't
want u to keep sparking new arguments on productive stuff, focus and
channel ur energy on the right track.
[3:40 PM, 7/12/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[3:41 PM, 7/12/2020] John Tan: U feel bright and joyful, can u feel bright and joyful when u r my age is a different story...lol
[3:43
PM, 7/12/2020] John Tan: Anatta is not a no self into nihilism
otherwise u won't talk so much about it. U feel non-dual, transparent,
vibrant, energetic and full of joy without boundaries.
[3:43 PM, 7/12/2020] John Tan: That is y u know u r in the right direction.
[3:44 PM, 7/12/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Ic.. yeah
[3:45 PM, 7/12/2020] John Tan: So open up and release this potential...like experiencing the 易 in 易经...
[3:46 PM, 7/12/2020] John Tan: 生生之为易 did I tell u before?
[3:46
PM, 7/12/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Mentioned before i think over decade ago but
didnt understand previously.. its more like life potential towards
creative expressions?
[3:47 PM, 7/12/2020] John Tan: Yes
[3:50 PM,
7/12/2020] John Tan: Therefore u hear 不孝有三,无后为大 or 天地之大得曰生。u see
pictures and drawings of horses galloping, fishes swimming 🤣🤣🤣
[3:58 PM, 7/12/2020] John Tan: Means they r emphasizing creative vibrancy of life
[3:59 PM, 7/12/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[3:59 PM, 7/12/2020] John Tan: It can be any activity
[3:59 PM, 7/12/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
[6:15
PM, 7/12/2020] John Tan: Some times I like watching animation...some of
the anime can describe anatta and total exertion experience quite well 🤣🤣🤣