chatgpt summarised a chat for me:


Navigating the Evolution of AtR: Balancing Directness and Sensitivity


Hey everyone, it's Soh here. I recently had an insightful conversation with Mr. K about the unique dynamics within our AtR (Awakening to Reality) community. There have been some recurring themes and questions that I'd like to address in this blog post, shedding light on our approach and the evolution of our group.

The Perception of Elitism


Mr. K raised an important point about the perception of AtR holding an "elitist" mentality, especially when it comes to labeling prominent teachers based on Thusness's models. However, it’s important to emphasize that discussing the stages of other teachers is not a prominent or common topic within our community, especially these days. While I may provide clear, honest responses when asked directly about a teacher’s realization level, it isn’t a central focus of our discussions.


For instance, if someone asks me whether Teacher X has realized Anatta, I’ll candidly say something like “Thusness stage 4” or “substantialist nondual.” However, this labeling is only done on a need-to-know basis. It’s not about constantly ranking teachers; rather, it’s about providing clarity when asked. I recognize that constantly categorizing teachers could come off as unnecessary and perhaps even unkind.


Importantly, I want to emphasize that I do not look down on teachers who haven’t realized Anatta. Many of these teachers offer immense value and can provide significant insights and guidance. For example, I still recommend teachers like Teacher Y for their teachings, even if they haven’t realized Anatta. They have their unique perspectives and contributions that are beneficial to many.


The Challenge of Doctrine


Another issue Mr. K mentioned is the risk of newcomers treating AtR material as absolute doctrine. This is a legitimate concern. The teachings and insights shared within our community are meant to be a starting point for personal investigation. It's crucial for everyone to realize that beliefs alone aren't sufficient. True understanding comes from investigating, finding out, and realizing the truth for oneself.


While the AtR Facebook group has grown significantly, with over 2000 members now, it's essential that we maintain a spirit of inquiry rather than dogma. The idea isn't to take my word—or anyone else's—as gospel, but to use it as a guide for personal exploration. Taking what I or any other member says as absolute truth without personal investigation can be dangerous. Beliefs should be tested and verified through personal experience and realization.

Engaging with Different Worldviews


Mr. K also touched on the diversity of worldviews within our community. For instance, I don't hold a perennialist position and have my reasons based on personal investigation of teachings like Advaita Vedanta. When people hold different views, it's important to engage in dialogue and agree to disagree respectfully. Understanding different perspectives enriches our own journey and helps us see the broader picture.


Interestingly, there are fewer questions nowadays about which teacher has realized which stage. This could be because people already know my stance or predict my answers. Despite this, I still recommend teachers like Teacher Y for certain contexts, recognizing their value even if they haven't realized Anatta. Their teachings can still provide profound insights and guide practitioners on their path.

Dream Yoga and Further Study


In our conversation, we also discussed dream yoga, referencing books by Teacher Z and others. John Tan and I have explored these teachings deeply, integrating them into our practice while recognizing the importance of understanding Anatta and emptiness. These practices, while profound, need to be approached with a clear understanding of their purpose for spiritual liberation, not just for psychic abilities.

 For example, John and I often discuss the insights from dream yoga and how they relate to our understanding of non-dual awareness. While some teachers might emphasize the clarity of dreams, we focus on integrating this clarity into our daily practice and understanding the nature of mind and phenomena.

Personal Reflections


Mr. K mentioned that some might see me as a prodigy for starting the AtR blog at the age of 17, before I had any significant realizations. However, the true prodigy here is John, who figured out much of this on his own. My journey has been deeply influenced by John Tan's insights. While I have shared and spread his teachings, my role has been more about facilitating the sharing of knowledge.


I've gone to great lengths to share our insights. When I was 16, I sent CDs with Thusness's stages to spiritual teachers around the world, including to prominent figures like Teacher X. I also started the Awakening to Reality blog in 2007, three years before I had any realizations. Additionally, I spent a considerable amount of time private messaging thousands of people on Reddit, sharing our articles and insights until my account was eventually banned for excessive messaging.


It's all been driven by a desire to help others. I wanted to ensure that people had access to valuable insights and teachings that could aid their spiritual journey. Even though my methods sometimes led to my accounts getting banned, the effort was worth it to reach those who were seeking guidance.

Conclusion


The AtR community is about fostering a spirit of inquiry and personal investigation. While we provide clear and direct guidance, it's crucial that members use this as a foundation for their own exploration and understanding. Let's continue to support each other on this journey, recognizing the value of diverse perspectives and the importance of personal realization.


Thanks for reading, and feel free to share your thoughts and experiences in the comments below!


Warm regards,

Soh





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Soh Wei Yu
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Ms M. ". And as I read previously on this thread, trying to tap into resources related to some of my experiences (eg shamanic, pagan, indigenous) "
Shamanic path leads to subtle mysticism or nature to deity mysticism. It does not lead to causal or nondual mysticism, as stated by Ken Wilber. AtR does not teach nature or subtle mysticism, and leads directly to I AM (causal), non dual, and even further -- to anatta and emptiness.
Soh Wei Yu
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Aditya Prasad he also has some nice descriptions of nondual, but not anatta
Soh Wei Yu
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Shamanic path does not lead to I AM, nondual or further insights.

From Ken Wilber’s new book “Finding Radical Wholeness”:
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Soh Wei Yu
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Soh Wei Yu
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Soh Wei Yu
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Someone said: "I have seen a few Shamans that point to pure consciousness"


Soh replied:

“ Maybe modern spirituality

Not the indigenous one

Modern are like new age mix everything into the pot kind“


Only I AM onwards pertains to spiritual enlightenment as explained here: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2024/03/mere-vividness-of-clarity-is-not.html