Empowerments are necessary if you choose to practice Vajrayana Buddhism. (They are not necessary for other forms of Buddhism). Someone asked me what is its purpose, so I sent him these quotes. First, the article on rigpa wiki. Then quotes by Acarya Malcolm Smith are found below that.

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https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Empowerment#:~:text=dbang%20bskur%20ba)%20refers%20to,come%20to%20master%20its%20realization.

Empowerment
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Sogyal Rinpoche and Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche during an empowerment
Empowerment (Skt. abhiṣeka or abhisiddhi[1]; Tib. དབང་, Wyl. dbang, wang) or granting an empowerment (Skt. abhiṣiñca; Tib. དབང་བསྐུར་བ་, Wyl. dbang bskur ba)[2] refers to the Vajrayana ritual which awakens the special capacity for primordial wisdom (Tib. yeshe) to arise in the mind of the disciple.[3] It is called 'empowerment' because when we receive it, we are empowered to follow a particular spiritual practice, and so come to master its realization.[4] It is said:

In the Secret Mantra Vehicle, there can be no accomplishment without empowerment,
For that would be like a boatman without oars.
And also:

Without empowerment there's no accomplishment;
You can't get oil from pressing sand.[5]
Empowerments can only be granted by qualified vajra masters and requires for the students receiving them to maintain the specific vajrayana precepts (Skt. samaya), on the basis of the refuge and bodhisattva vows. (See Two Causes & Four Conditions for further details.)

Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche reminds us of the real meaning of 'empowerment':

"The most common description of abhisheka is that it is a transfer of power during a ceremony to give recipients the authorization to hear, study and practise the teachings of the vajrayana; we therefore “receive an empowerment.” But the problem is that receiving an empowerment suggests someone is giving us a power we previously lacked[...], and is a long way away from the true spirit of tantric initiation. During an initiation we are introduced to an aspect of ourselves that already exists within us but that we have yet to recognize, and it is the activation of this recognition that we call 'empowerment' or 'initiation'. This is the real meaning of abhisheka."[6]

Contents
1    Etymology
2    The Function of Empowerment
3    Subdivisions
3.1    In General
3.2    In the Inner Tantras
4    Two Causes & Four Conditions
4.1    Two Causes
4.2    Four Conditions
5    Empowerments Given to the Rigpa Sangha
6    Notes
7    Teachings Given to the Rigpa Sangha on the Topic of Empowerment
8    Further Reading
9    Internal Links
10    External Links
Etymology
Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche writes:

"Abhisheka is a Sanskrit term, and its two fundamental meanings have been translated into Tibetan as torwa and lugpa. Torwa is usually translated as “dismantling” and refers to the cocoon of ignorance in which we are wrapped and that needs to be dismantled; and lugpa is translated as “pouring”—as in “pouring blessings”—and more obliquely, as “discovering our buddhanature.”"[7]
Tsele Natsok Rangdrol explains the etymological definition of empowerment in the following way:

"Formerly your body, speech and mind followed deluded habitual tendencies and possessed no independent power. The method that now provides you with natural authority over the indivisible state of the four kayas is called 'empowerment'."[8]
The Function of Empowerment
Empowerment is to ripen or mature our buddha nature. Even though all beings possess the buddha nature, without receiving empowerment it is not possible to receive blessings and accomplishments through a particular practice, just as it will never be possible to get oil by pressing sand.[9]

His Holiness the Dalai Lama says:

"When an empowerment is conferred on you, it is the nature of your mind—the buddha nature—that provides a basis upon which the empowerment can ripen you. Through the empowerment, you are empowered into the essence of the buddhas of the five families. In particular, you are ‘ripened’ within that particular family through which it is your personal predisposition to attain buddhahood."[10]
In addition, to these aspects, Patrul Rinpoche adds that empowerments:

repair violated and broken samayas,
enable you to meditate on all the paths of the generation phase, the perfection phase, and the Great Perfection,
prevent obstacles and errors from arising, and
allow all your attainments to develop more and more.[11]
Subdivisions
In General
According to Khenpo Ngakchung:[12]

"In general there are three types of empowerment:
the ground empowerment
the path empowerment
the result empowerment
The ground empowerment is so called because when the nature of mind, sugatagarbha, is realized, this constitutes the "empowerment" of nirvana, and when it is not realized, this constitutes the "empowerment" of the three worlds of samsara. This nature is actually what is to be matured in the ground empowerment of the path empowerment .
The path empowerment is divided into three: ground, path, and result:
[the ground empowerment of the path empowerment
the path empowerment of the path empowerment
the result empowerment of the path empowerment]
The result empowerment: In the very instant following the result empowerment of the path, one gains mastery of the wisdom of omniscience and has authority over everything in samsara and nirvana."

When other sources refer to ground, path and fruition empowerments, they most usually refer to what Khenpo Ngakchung presents as the ground empowerment of the path empowerment, the path empowerment of the path empowerment, and the result empowerment of the path empowerment.

In this context, Patrul Rinpoche explains that:[13]

"The empowerment that we receive when we are first introduced into the mandala by an authentic Vajra Master is the ground empowerment.
The fourfold empowerment that we take by ourselves when we practise Guru Yoga, without depending on anyone or anything else, is the path empowerment.
The empowerment that we obtain at the moment of the ultimate fruit, called the "great ray of light empowerment" or the "empowerment of indivisible profundity and radiance," is the fruit empowerment, perfect and total buddhahood."
And Tulku Thondup says that:[14]

empowerments given to disciples who have not been initiated before are called causal empowerment;
the empowerment given to students for developing their maturation or restoring the broken precepts are classified as empowerment of the path; and
empowerments given to those who are ready to achieve the final attainment and which cause the disciple to attain the ultimate fruition are classified as empowerments of result because they bring the final result.
In the Inner Tantras
According to the inner tantras, there are four levels or stages within any ground empowerment of the path empowerment:

the vase empowerment (Skt. kalaśābhiṣeka; Tib. བུམ་པའི་དབང་, bumpé wang, Wyl. bum pa'i dbang)
the secret empowerment (Skt. guhyābhiṣeka; Tib. གསང་བའི་དབང་, sangwé wang, 'Wyl. gsang ba'i dbang; )
the knowledge-wisdom empowerment (Skt. prajñājñānābhiṣeka; Tib. ཤེས་རབ་ཡེ་ཤེས་ཀྱི་དབང་, sherab yeshe kyi wang, Wyl. shes rab ye shes kyi dbang)
the precious word empowerment

Two Causes & Four Conditions
Two causes and four conditions are necessary for an empowerment to fully take place:

Two Causes
The associated cause (mtshung ldan gyi rgyu) is the presence of the buddha nature
The cooperative cause (lhan cig byed pa'i rgyu) is the use of various substances (rdzas) during the empowerment, such as the vase, image cards and so forth.
Four Conditions
The causal condition (rgyu'i rkyen) is the disciple who has faith and intelligence
The dominant condition (bdag rkyen) is the teacher who is fully qualified
The objective condition (dmigs rkyen) is the teacher's knowledge of the empowerment, deities, and mantras, and samadhi
The immediate condition (de ma thag rkyen) is the previous phase or empowerment, since each phase prepares the student for what follows, and that is why empowerments must be given in the proper sequence[15]
Empowerments Given to the Rigpa Sangha
Many great masters have bestowed the most important empowerments needed for our practice upon the Rigpa sangha over the years, in particular, Kyabjé Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche in 1987 and 1990, Kyabjé Penor Rinpoche in 1988 and 1995, Kyabjé Dodrupchen Rinpoche in 1999, Kyabjé Trulshik Rinpoche in 1999, 2003, and 2005, and Yangthang Rinpoche in 2012 and 2013.

For the complete list of empowerments given to the Rigpa Sangha, see the 'Empowerments Given to the Rigpa Sangha' page.

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Acarya Malcolm Smith's random selection of quotes on empowerments found in dharmawheel:

Malcolm wrote in 2021:

The essence of an empowerment is the arrangement of a special dependent origination by the master upon the disciple according to the methods taught by Buddha Vajradhara in the authoritative tantras, realized by mahāsiddhas, practiced by bodhisattvas, and translated by qualified translators out of Sanskrit and other dialects of India in Tibetan, and thence into English and other languages. There is no other essence than this.

These days however, people take it upon them themselves to just make up whatever doctrine feels good to them, disregarding the clear words of the sūtras and tantras about how to follow a virtuous mentor or a guru. They buy books and attempt to practice their contents without transmission. Such people close the doorway to liberation for themselves by inappropriately using methods taught in the tantras.

...

Speaking strictly from the point of view of Dzogchen, empowerment is for inducing the experience of the example/actual wisdom. The guru is the guide who assists the student induce that experience. The lineage means that guru has also been lead through the process in a precise way by someone else before them. Not all empowerments involve deities. In fact, the actual Dzogchen empowerments never do. Dzogchen empowerment can be combined with deity empowerments, but it is not necessary.



Malcolm wrote in 2012:

Visting teachers is not Dharma.
Receiving empowerments is not Dharma.

Dharma is understanding your real condition.

...

I never said don't receive transmission and teachings. I am saying, turn your dharma teachings and transmissions in Dharma. Use them to understand yourself. Don't leave them as an intellectual pursuit. For the most part, every dharma text I ever studied, am studying, and will study, was for the purpose of understanding something about my path, about myself, my own state. I learned Tibetan to enhance my practice, not to become a skilled translator who is expert in dancing on books (though I am pretty good). I did not learn Dharma to come to places like Dharma wheel and have debates. So I am pointing out that Buddhist Philosophy, the intellectual study of Buddhism divorced from a path, is a waste of time. If you want to study Madhyamaka, first understand how it is relevant to solving the Buddha's existential question: what is suffering, it's cause, it's cessation and the path. If you keep this in mind, then this study becomes Dharma.

...

No, the fourth empowerment, an example wisdom, simply contextualizes the experience of the third empowerment and is used to indicate the meaning of the innate. It is not an actual transference of any sort of experience.

...

2013:

It is both, and the former will lead to the latter, which is why Āryadeva proclaimed "Realization proceeds from view." This is why there is such a huge emphasis on developing a correct view in sūtrayāna. Whereas in Vajrayāna in general, the view is taught only after empowerment, because the view cultivated in Vajrayāna should be cultivated on the basis of the experience produced during one of the empowerments (but the Gelugpas have a different perspective on this).

...

It means that according to Madhyamaka there are two so called ultimates, one is nominal, the other is the direct perception of emptiness.

But from a Dzogchen point of view, since all relative truths are objects of false cognitions, even the cognition of the nominal ultimate is faulty. The only thing that is true is the cognition of dharmatā. That most certainly requires some kind of direct introduction which is lacking in Sutra teachings. The main advantage to Vajrayāna teachings is that dharmatā or the example wisdom, is introduced during the time of empowerment. In the case of gsar ma, it is the introduction of bliss and emptiness at the time of the third and fourth empowerments; in the case of the Dzogchen it is the introduction of the potentiality of vidyā during anyone of the four styles of empowerment, elaborate, unelaborate and so on.

...

Correct view in Vajrayāna arises from the empowerment. This is the reason why in Lamdre, for example, one meditates the view only _after_ having received the cause empowerment where it is introduced in the section of the ālaya cause continuum (tantra) among the three tantras (cause, path and result).

Despite this, of course one also meditates a sutrayāna view using śamatha and vipaśyāna (supplemented by citations from the Mahāsiddhas) at the time of the vision of experience teachings from among the three visions (impure, experiential and pure). Frankly, despite polemics between Sakya and Kagyu over the issue of sutra mahāmudra, meditating the view here is not so different than sutra mahāmudra save only the name.

...

And of course, the common misunderstanding of empowerments/initiations is that they are merely there to allow you to practice something. In fact empowerment is the primary method of liberation in Vajrayāna. It is only if you do not wake up from the empowerment itself that you are given a sadhana to practice.

...


Anuttarasamyaksambodhi is only possible through empowerment -- this is why for example abhiśeka is mentioned as a key feature of buddhahood in in the Āvataṃsaka sūtra and so on.

When a bodhisattva attains buddhahood, they do so on the basis of an empowerment (abhiśeka) transmitted through from all the tathagatas of the ten directions. For exmaple,the Buddhāvataṃsaka-nāma-mahāvaipulya-sūtra states:
Whoever attains facility through the supreme samadhi, they completely receive the ornaments of the empowerment conferred from the victors of the ten directions
Ārya-tathāgatācintyaguhyanirdeśa-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra states:
By attaining empowerment, one is endowed with all qualities.
Ārya-svapnanirdeśa-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra:
On the tenth stage one is predicted as a buddha through empowerment
Āryākṣayamatiparipṛcchā-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra:
Since the tenth creation of bodhicitta is the empowerment that grants power over qualities, wisdoms and all phenomena, it is seen to be equal with space through the example of the name "cakravartin".
Ārya-ratnacūḍaparipṛcchā-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra:
All who are impeded by a single birth obtain empowerment.
Ārya-lalitavistara-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra:
Through possessing love and compassion, the bodhisattva who has been conferred the empowerment of merit and wisdom leaves Tuṣita.
Thus, empowement in Vajrayāna, the direct route to experiencing anuttarasamyaksambodhi in a single lifetime in a single body, is fully validated by Mahāyāna sutras.

M

...


You have five aggregates; these are the cause. The teacher arranges their connection to the five buddhas, the result, through the empowerment. If you don't attain buddhahood during the empowerment, then you have a path to follow.

Most people do not understand that abhisheka is primarily a method of attaining buddhahood, and only secondarily, an introduction to a path.

When we talk about dependent origination, there are five: outer, inner, secret, ultimate and sucheness. If you really want to understand this, then you should go and study Lamdre with the Sakyapas.

...

"What defines Vajrayana?"

Empowerment (abhiṣeka) as the entryway into the teachings.

...

The difference between sutra and tantra is empowerment. There is no direct introduction in Sutra. There are also important differences in terms of how the result is contextualized in sutra and tantra in general, and dzogchen specifically.

...

If you do not attain awakening during empowerment, then you have sadhana practice, cause that's what it is for, i.e., sadhopaya, "method of accomplishment".

...

The path of Varjayāna is taught so that a common, ordinary person can traverses all the paths and stages in a single life, and ideally, within the rite of empowerment itself, or at least so I have been taught (I am someone who has done a three year retreat).


...


Malcolm wrote:

There are no siddhis without empowerment,
just as there is no oil even if sand is pressed.
Whoever proudly explains the tantras and citations
to those without empowerment,
both master and disciple go to hell
as soon as they die even if there are siddhis.
-- Mahāmudratilaka-tantra

...

The proper way to enter Vajrayāna is through receiving empowerment. There is no other way. You can read this or that book, but without having taken proper empowerment, Vajrayāna texts will not benefit you and can actually give rise to wrong views that will cause you much problem.

...


They are not my views. In any case, you can also read Kongtrul's Buddhist Ethics, where different approaches to samaya are evaluated and harmonized, but not one claims that one can hold samaya without an HYT empowerment of some kind. Empowerment is the sole entryway to Vajrayāna, this has been proclaimed in one voice by all the scholars of India and Tibet.


...

This is the principle we should employ, as Kenpo Ngalo states in his commentary on Ngondro:

Never arriving with empty hands is a critical point of dependent origination. In particular, when that guru confers empowerment and explains Dharmas, since all the compassion and blessings of all the buddhas of the three times and ten directions along with all the bodhisattvas exist in that sublime guru, the guru is inseparable with all the buddhas. Even bringing him a morsel of food has greater merit than making many hundred of thousands of offerings to others


...

2015:

There really is no mahāmudra that can be spoken of outside of tantric practice. Sutra mahāmudra is using dohas to illustrate and prepare one for the true result mahāmudra realized via the practice of the two stages. The word "mahāmudra" does not occur in even one single sūtra.

...

The term "sūtra" mahāmudra, according to Kongtrul and even Gampopa himself, is used for the teaching given to those people who are incapable of practicing Vajrayāna for this or that reason but who are nevertheless interested in Mahāmudra. They are taught śamatha and vipaśyāna, the experience of which is clarified by quotes from dohas, etc.

But without the example wisdom as well as the profound dependent originations arranged by the guru at the time of empowerment, this sūtra mahāmudra cannot go beyond the common practice of the six perfections.

There are many terms for the state of buddhahood in various systems. The meaning is the same, but the means differ, and the length of time to the result as well.

The means of realizing mahāmudra is the two stages and or guru yoga. It is the practice of the an example wisdom introduced at the time of empowerment. This leads to buddhahood in one life, or seven or at most sixteen.

It takes three incalculable eons at minimum to progress to buddhahood via the sūtra path.

The level of insight experienced in Vajrayāna completion stage practices involve the experience of levels of mind more subtle than is possible in sutra meditation of plain śamatha and vipaśyāna, which is another reason why it is more rapid than sutra meditation

...

In reality, it is something connected with empowerments. So it really should not be discussed so much in a public place, regardless of how many books it may be published in. As Sachen states:
In general, Secret Mantra makes dependent origination into the path. Since all dependent originations are arranged at the time of the empowerment, in the beginning it is very important to obtain completely the four empowerment from the guru. That empowerment is not merely a symbol, not merely an introduction and not merely a blessing.

...

There is no difference between the fourth empowerment and direct introduction. They both involve inductions of specific experiences.

The fourth empowerment is an introduction based on the induction of a specific experience in the student, likewise, so is direct introduction.

Though it is called the "word empowerment", the actual fourth empowerment is not truly contained within words such as "this is like space...", etc. But when combined with this or that specific experience, the fourth empowerment/direct introduction introduces the student to the nature of their minds experientially, and then it can be called the word empowerment because the nature of that experience has been described to them in a way that they understand the experience that they have had. That experience itself is the example, wisdom, not the words.


...

No, that is never the case, it is more like a stamp and its impression. A recorded empowerment can never be a stamp, it can only be an impression. In this case, an inert impression. A student, who receives an empowerment, is an animate living person upon whom an impression has been made, and when they have realized the meaning, they too can make impressions on others.

This is essentially why, for all who reading, the idea that one can receive an empowerment from a recording is a corrupt idea that will destroy lineages if people take it seriously.

...


Anyway, this is a stupid conversation — you cannot receive empowerments from a recording of an empowerment, period. End of story. Just like you cannot receive monks vows from a recording, and so on. People who think they have received an empowerment from a recording are just deluding themselves and received nothing whatsoever. Even if they recite mantras and practices they think they have received from a recording there will be no benefit whatsoever, in fact the opposite will be the case.

If you want to receive a vow, any vow, you have to do it in the proper way, and receiving them from a recording cannot be construed as proper at all.

...


The commentary tantra of the Great Perfection, the Rig pa Rang Shar states:
While one has not left the body of traces, migrating beings will not see one as worthy of respect. One’s merit will be small, one’s life short, one’s enjoyments of living will be few, one will be powerless and many obstacles will occur. Nothing will be accomplished. Those are the faults of not obtaining the empowerment for the conduct of Secret Mantra. A yogin of Secret Mantra conduct must first obtain empowerment. If empowerment is not obtained, not even the Buddha will be able to turn the wheel on the stage of a tathāgata. If the wheel cannot be turned, then the nirmanakāya will not be able to benefit migrating beings with compassion. Therefore, the empowerment of the conduct of Secret Mantra must be obtained.

...

2017:

The process of empowerment transforms the human body through dependent origination. Sadhana is for those who do not obtain buddhahood during the empowerment.

M

...

Anytime you take an empowerment, you are making a commitment to that method of practice from now until awakening. That is essentially what a yidam is, i.e., a commitment to the path of awakening. The whole idea of "special yidams" is a bit of quasi theistic superstition. It does not matter who anyone's yidam is since the continuum of pristine consciousness of all yidams is the same.

People have karmic relations with this or that practice. But in reality, everyone in Mahāyāna has the same yidam: buddhahood.

...

Malcolm:

"These days, empowerments are handed out as a means of attracting followers to people who no idea what they are doing, even though sometimes they have been "following" Tibetan Buddhism for decades. How can one even imagine that any of these people have actually received samaya? It is only possible to believe this if one thinks that merely attending a ritual and repeating some words has the power to confer samaya. I don't believe this, but you are free to disagree."

makewhisper wrote:

Based on your study and practice, what conditions are necessary for a successful empowerment and conferral of samaya?


Malcolm:


The student has to actually know what they are doing — this is the main criteria.


makewhisper wrote:

As a neophyte, I'm not quite sure what this means.



Malcolm:

It means you have to know what you are doing. You have to understand the Dharma. You have to examine the teacher. You have to understand the commitments you are taking on. For example, if you do not understand the commitments you are taking, you don't have samaya at all. It is really that simple.

If you do understand the commitments, you do know what you are doing, and so on, a teacher's conduct has to be pretty outrageously abusive before you can legitimately say, this teacher has broken samaya and now my commitment to him or her is null and void. If he or she likes fancy cars, too bad; if they like expensive food and wine; too bad. If they have a penchant for gold and silver, and insist that their students pay outrageous fees for teachings, too bad. If they like having multiple partners and are up front about it, too bad. If they are gay, too bad. If they are trans, too bad.

But if they systematically abuse their power, or are dishonest, or are physically and/or sexually abusive, well, then one might have a case that this teacher is bad news. Even here, it is best to just leave their company and move on. However, sometimes it is bad enough to warrant a public outing. In this case, don't worry about your samaya, your obligation to sentient beings is more important.

....


"Samaya" basically means "coming to a mutual understanding , agreement , compact , covenant , treaty , contract , arrangement , engagement , stipulation , conditions of agreement, terms."

It is rooted in a notion of contractual obligation which results when two people agree on something. In this case, before a guru offers an empowerment, the disciple has to agree to some terms in order to enter the mandala for which the teacher is giving an empowerment. The teacher also has obligations which he or she must fulfill in order to be able to offer than empowerment.

This is the base level definition of samaya. There are much deeper understandings, like the four unbreakable samayas of the Great Perfection.


...


One is not qualified to study these things without empowerment, transmission, and instruction. These teachings are part of Secret Mantra. It is called "secret" for a reason.

One is not even permitted to look at these texts without transmission, let alone discuss there contents on an open forum such as this.

Those who have empowerment, transmission, and instruction are not permitted discuss these things with those who lack empowerment, transmission, and instruction.

For example, if one buys a book on Dzogchen, no one is going to stop you, no one who is responsible will discuss the contents of the teachings with someone who is not qualified.


...

Terms and so on are experiential, they are related to the practice, so they really cannot be discussed either. This is why we don't discuss them, apart from the occasional kerfuffle about how rig pa is properly translated (knowledge, knowing, in rare cases, mind)


...

No, there is no samaya greater than empowerment. Direct introduction is an empowerment.

...

2018:

You cannot educate people about what happens in an empowerment before the empowerment. If you do, you are breaking your own samaya. For example, the preparation day exists precisely so that people are readied to hear the secrets spoken during an empowerment.

...


2021:

Every time you take any empowerment or initiation, you are making a promise to hold that deity as your yidam. Hence you can have hundreds, there is no limit.

The key of course is to practice all yidams in one yidam, all mantras in one mantra, etc.

Someone asked me, did Buddha practice devotion?

I said

Yes but not the hindu type.

Here are a bunch of quotes for your reference, hope it helps:

Acarya Malcolm Smith: “Depend on what Tibetan word. The Tibeten word most commonly translated as devotion is mos gus, or gus pa. 

Mos gus is combined term that does not have a real Sanskrit term underneath it. It combined from mos pa and gus pa. 

Mos pa only translates adhimokṣa and its various forms. It means confidence or interest. Gus pa translate two terms primarily, ādara and satkṛtya, both of which mean to pay respect.

Thus the terms we usually see translated as "devotion" really mean, "confident interest" and "respect". 

Thus, when we see the term "devotion" in a Tibetan Buddhist book, we should understand that it really has nothing to do with the English history of the word, which really means "formal vow." Devotion means "love, loyalty, or enthusiasm for a person, activity, or cause:" Of these three, it is only the third definition, enthusiasm, which is really indicated by the term in its Buddhist sense. This does not bar us from having love for or loyalty to our gurus, teachers, etc. But just to be clear, we should expect love from our gurus, since the texts on the qualities of the guru all describe the guru as loving, and they in return should expect our interest and respect.”

Kyle Dixon (krodha) wrote in dharmawheel: 

“The question is whether "devotion" and "faith" in this context mean what you think they mean. You are projecting Christian-like characteristics onto these descriptions when I personally think "faith" and "devotion" simply mean genuine trust, interest, commitment, etc.

Essentially that if the buddhadharma and the teaching transmitted (along with the relationship with the teacher) are to have any actual potential one must be serious and have integrity. You won't have success unless you are devoted and have faith in the teacher and the teachings. 

But this doesn't mean some sort of bhākti like blessing-devotion and religious faith, like faith in a higher power etc., are involved.”

Malcolm: “”Hindu guru devotion is different that guru devotion in Buddhadharma. It's best not to confuse the two.”

“

For example, the Ratnānanta Sūtra says of the virtuous mentor:

One must have strong devotion for the virtuous mentor. They are never satisfied in seeking the Dharma. They have much hearing, and are diligent. They pure investigation into the treatises. They train in discernment. They train in discerning philosophical positions. They are expert in rites. One should be devoted to the guru. One must never deny the guru. One must never violate the word of the guru.”

“The Suvikrāntacinta-devaputra-paripṛcchā states:

Devaputra, if a bodhisattva is endowed with four Dharmas they will be a master for all. What are these four? Absence of pride, devotion to the guru, conscientiousness, and strong aspiration.”

“Chapter 13 of the Saddharmapundarika states:

The wise generate devotion to the guru.”

Malcolm: “

Dear Kathy:

You need a teacher. There are many qualified Nyingma masters who will teach qualified students the highest teaching of the Buddha, the complete path of Dzogchen, including Thogal. 

I suggest you make a connection with such a teacher. Qualified teachers like Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, Chokyi Nyima, Tsoknyi Rinpoche, Pachog Rinpoche, Tulku Sangngag, HH Shenphen Dawa Rinpoche, Tulku Dakpa, and so on can be easily met and studied with. If you want to really practice Dzogchen, true devotion to a qualified guru is a necessary precondition. Following their instructions carefully is the next step. If you do this, you will undoubtedly receive such teachings. 

If you like Bonpo teachings, you can study with a number of Bonpo Lamas as well. They also teach a complete path of Dzogchen, and guru devotion is no less important in their school. 

M”

Malcolm: “Wrong view here specifically refers to not accepting dependent origination and karma with its results. 

There is also wrong devotion. What is that? Devotion which lacks wisdom is wrong devotion. Wisdom does not arise from outside oneself. 

As Nāgārjuna says:

Only those with the essentials of emptiness and compassion

accomplish awakening.

View is the basis of the path. WIthout a correct view, it is impossible for one's path to be correct.”

Malcolm: “”

The word Rongzom uses is "faith," dad pa or śraddhā. But we have to point out what śraddhā actually means. According to Vasubandhu, faith is the mental factor that brings clarity to the mind. So, "faith" is not belief, per se. In fact, it is one of the five faculties, which are part of the thirty-seven adjuncts to awakening. 

When we look at what the word means in Tibetan, the first definition is confidence (yid ches pa) (the second definition is joy (dga' ba) or attachment(chags pa)). Thus, the passage would be more accurately translated, "People with confidence in the Great Perfection approach realize and penetrate it through being shown this alone." Norbu Rinpoche tends to translate this term as "interest," thus the passage could also be rendered, "People interested in the Great Perfection approach realize and penetrate it through being shown this alone."

Dominic (a nice guy, very smart) also translated "tshul" as "approach," where as I would prefer here to say "principle", thus "People interested/confident in the principles of the Great Perfection realize and penetrate it through being shown this alone."

So yes, the phrase "belief is useless" is absolutely compatible with the above.”

Malcolm: “The context of the remark was one in which ChNN was contrasting "belief" against "direct experience." Hence his statement, "You can believe in anything." Beliefs are just concepts. They shift and change. One day you believe doing this practice is the best, the next day, you believe another is better. One day you believe America is a great place, the next day, you believe it sucks. 

But in Dzogchen, beliefs are useless. The only thing that counts is personal experience born out of direct perception.”

Malcolm: “I also want to point out that like the rest of Vajrayāna, Dzogchenpractice, path and realization completely depends on the Guru. Guru Yoga is absolutely central to Dzogchen. Without guru yoga and devotion to a realized master, no progress at all is possible in Dzogchen, none whatsoever.”

However he also said: “I am sure he has some idea since he has attended webcasts. He probably also knows that in the community, Norbu Rinpoche never stresses devotion as the key point of guru yoga, rather he stresses knowledge as the key point of guru yoga.”

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/aJjzmseiwoHom1jE/?

Update, new post:

Soh:

I just coincidentally read a quote by Acarya Malcolm days ago which I agree:

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?p=606932

“There is no source, no pure love, or anything like it. The highest manifestation of consciousness is a person who has realized how things are 100%, in other words, a buddha. 

Now, to the extent that Buddhas are motivated by love, the wish that sentient beings be happy, we can say they are embodiments of love. But there is nothing at all mysterious about that, just as there is nothing mysterious about a mother’s love for an only child.”

“If things arose out of dharmakāya, we would all be awakened from the beginning. 

We say, in a general way, that "everything arises out of emptiness" as a metaphor for not being able to find a ultimate source for anything. As Nāgārjuna puts it, "empty things arise from things that are empty."”

If anything, love is simply part of the potentialities:

" - https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../madhyamaka...

those who assert they are not nominal but truly existent has fallen into extreme views

as for the shentong views of intrinsic qualities, it can lend itself to substantialist views easily

instead one should see this way:

9/3/2012 11:38 PM: John: Namdrol pointed out diff between shentong and dzogchen... The potentiality and full form...cut and paste that as that is important.

9/3/2012 11:39 PM: Soh Wei Yu: Ok

9/3/2012 11:40 PM: Soh Wei Yu: Saved it in my email. Malcolm Smith

The problem with shentong, which CHNN has addressed many times, is that in Dzogchen the result exists as a potentiality of the basis; but in Shenton it is fully formed at all times. For this reason, in several retreats ChNN has declared that shentong is incompatible with Dzogchen.

...

9/4/2012 1:54 AM: John: His current practice of seeing awareness as a background

9/4/2012 1:54 AM: Soh Wei Yu: I see

9/4/2012 1:54 AM: Soh Wei Yu: I guess he won't see it as background anymore then

9/4/2012 1:54 AM: Soh Wei Yu: Doesn't seem compatible

9/4/2012 1:55 AM: John: So no awareness, whatever arises is

9/4/2012 1:55 AM: Soh Wei Yu: Ic..

9/4/2012 1:56 AM: John: U understand what namdrol mean?

9/4/2012 1:56 AM: Soh Wei Yu: Shentong? One is buddha nature is empty of any inherent attributes, manifesting according to conditions

9/4/2012 1:57 AM: Soh Wei Yu: The other is buddha nature is already replete with all the qualities of buddhahood and just needs to discove

9/4/2012 1:57 AM: John: No good...u r filling words not knowing the meaning

9/4/2012 1:58 AM: John: And what u said is completely out

9/4/2012 1:59 AM: Soh Wei Yu: I think its like what I wrote before

9/4/2012 1:59 AM: Soh Wei Yu: In the past I had the idea that there is an inherently existing Self waiting to be discovered

9/4/2012 2:00 AM: Soh Wei Yu: Now I see that everything is being "created" or actualized by conditions, nothing inherent

9/4/2012 2:00 AM: Soh Wei Yu: Including buddha-nature

9/4/2012 2:00 AM: John: How this relates to what namdrol said

9/4/2012 2:01 AM: John: Tell me line by line what he meant...u like to gross around

9/4/2012 2:09 AM: John: tell Christ, just joking...no offence.

9/4/2012 2:09 AM: John: Lol

9/4/2012 2:10 AM: Soh Wei Yu: Haha ok

9/4/2012 2:14 AM: Soh Wei Yu: Malcolm Smith

The problem with shentong, which CHNN has addressed many times, is that in Dzogchen the result exists as a potentiality of the basis; but in Shenton it is fully formed at all times. For this reason, in several retreats ChNN has declared that shentong is incompatible with Dzogchen.

59 minutes ago Like

9/4/2012 2:19 AM: Soh Wei Yu: in Dzogchen the result exists as a potentiality of the basis: means the result (buddha's qualities) arises as one of the possible appearance of luminous emptiness. But it is nothing inherently existing anywhere, merely manifest when conditions are there. It is in the form of actualizing buddha nature through conditions. "in Shenton it is fully formed at all times." The buddha qualities are inherently existing in ourselves, so there is no need for any conditions and it is only a matter of discovering something inherent. This teaching does not factor conditionality in terms of result and may have a danger of inherent view

9/4/2012 2:19 AM: Soh Wei Yu: Not sure if I'm right

9/4/2012 2:20 AM: John: Sort of

9/4/2012 2:20 AM: Soh Wei Yu: Arising as potentiality also means without conditions nothing manifest, nothing inherent

9/4/2012 2:20 AM: John: Yes

Madhyamaka, Cittamātra, and the true intent of Maitreya and Asaṅga self.Buddhism

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Madhyamaka, Cittamātra, and the true intent of Maitreya and Asaṅga self.Buddhism

Madhyamaka, Cittamātra, and the true intent of Maitreya and Asaṅga self.Buddhism

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——

Soh Wei Yu

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../this-heart...

This Heart (Suchness) Free from Taints

Geovani GeoJohn Tan

How incredible; how amazing; that emptiness is intertwined with compassion.

18 Comments

André A. Pais

Intertwined may not be the best term. It sounds like 2 things brought together.

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1d

Geovani Geo

Which term would you use?

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1d

André A. Pais

No term is perfect, but perhaps inseparable, one with, of one taste, etc. Intertwined is a very visual thing, like 2 strings spinning around each other. Imo. I'm not native of the English language.

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Geovani Geo

Neither am I.

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John Tan

Geovani Geo y incredible and amazing?

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Geovani Geo

John Tan, well.... I did not expect you to ask that... so lets say its a special koan just for you

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1d

John Tan

Geovani Geo lol. Usually ppl only say it is "incredible" and "amazing" due to "inseparability" or "interwined" because it was once thought to be distinct and separated.

The buddhist term used is "non-arisen" in the sense that "separation" never existed in the first place; therefore compassion is not the result of realizing emptiness, not a cause-effect relationship.

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Edited

Geovani Geo

Maybe we mean the same although what you wrote sounds a bit too 'mental'. And whatever I could say will also sound 'mental', but...

Emptiness has a heart - amazing!

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John Tan

Geovani Geo Emptiness is for us to realize this heart (suchness) free from taints (essence, references) other than that, it has no purpose. It is not exactly a mental enterprise, quite contrary, it is the cessation of such proliferated activities.

The direct and simultaneity pointing to one's "heart" is another approach. The issue is when practitioners authenticate suchness pre-maturely with such approach without seeing through emptiness of "named phenomena", they ended up fooling and losing themselves in wonderland.

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......

Mr. AP 

Post stage 5, a universal mind is seen through as false reification. Meaning, we reject such advaita notions of a monist universal mind/consciousness as a true self, nor do we accept a theistic notion of an external creator like the dualists or monotheists. We have elaborated a lot on this before so unless you wish for url references which I can provide (such as https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/12/the-tendency-to-extrapolate-universal.html or https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2021/08/no-universal-mind.html )

Nonetheless if you wish to call the mind (personal) or potentiality god, that is ok (although I am not often inclined to use this term unless it suits a specific audience), although it is an empty convention as per what Acarya Malcolm also wrote:

“And this so-called "god" aka basis [gzhi] is just a nonexistent mere appearance, that is, our primordial potentiality also has no real existence, which is stated over and over again in countless Dzogchen tantras.

For those whom emptiness is possible, everything is possible.

For those whom emptiness is not possible, nothing is possible.

-- Nāgārjuna.

...

Malcolm: This is completely inconsistent with the view of Dzogchen. The view of Dzogchen is that there is no basis or foundation at all. Also the doctrine of the two truths is absent in Dzogchen. Further, the view of Dzogchen is that everything, including buddhahood is completely equivalent to an illusion and therefore, uniform.

- https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?p=649959#p649959 “

——

The Heap of Jewels Tantra states:

From the nonexistent empty source of phenomena the primordial Adibuddha has always turned the wheel of Dharma as the intrinsic sound of empty dharmata through the special pristine consciousness of vidya without a beginning, middle, or an end.

——

Also, John Tan and I like this, very clear:

Malcolm’s translation of Longchenpa:

don de nges par rtogs 'dod na

dpe ni nam mkha' lta bur btag

don ni chos nyid skye ba med

rtags ni sems nyid 'gag pa med

If one wishes to ascertain the meaning of that,

the example is to examine "space-like."

The meaning is nonarising dharmatā. 

The proof is the unceasing mind-essence.

In the commentary on this last line, the Chos dbying mdzod is cited:

"The proof is arising as anything at all from the potential (rtsal).

At the time of arising, there is no place of arising and no agent of arising.

If one examines the mere name, 'arising,' it is like space,

including everything in a great, impartial uniformity.

——

The Dalai Lama also wrote before:

“I do not mean chat there exists somewhere, there, a sort of collective clear light, analogous to the non-Buddhist concept of Brahma as a substratum. We must not be inclined to deify this luminous space. We must understand that when we speak of ultimate or inherent clear light, we are speaking on an individual level.”

——

Mr. AP 

Devotion to a deity is ok like I wrote about Tara. 

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2024/02/tara-and-manifestation.html

And there are many levels of deity practice, from kriya to maha and anu and ati yoga. The perspective and practice gets subtler and more profound the higher up you go.

Mr. AP
Author

Top contributor
Soh Wei Yu
 You call devotion "okay" and I am saying it's crucial (for a
well-balanced realization). I'm not trying to change your mind about
this either, since I know you have your own path. But I still consider
it an oversight.

3h
3 hours ago


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Soh Wei Yu
Admin

Group expert

Mr. AP  depends on person. I would not say it is an absolute necessity.
Acarya Malcolm and ChNN does not present Dzogchen as a devotional path either, it is primarily based on rigpa.
Shakyamuni Buddha also attained full enlightenment without focusing on devotional practices.

3h
3 hours ago


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Soh Wei Yu
Admin

Group expert

I do Tara practice everyday. I have quite some devotion to Tara if you read my story above.
But, I do not put this as a key practice for everyone. It depends on person.
I shared this with my admins days ago:
I see. I think doing some deity practice or simple ones like the 21 praises to tara may help ward off negative influences.
I
 always have the feeling that buddhas and bodhisattvas are helping me
and had many miraculous encounters (waking state, not psychedelic
induced) including pleasant smells of other realms and telepathic
messages
Just
 the other day i had a really hard time finding a cockroach. For hours
it was hiding from me. Then after chanting the 21 praises i told tara
please let the cockroach come out cos the helper is coming to clean up
my place tomorrow, she is definitely going to kill it. As soon as i
finished that thought, the cockroach ran out towards my direction, so i
used wet tissue to take it out and release into the wild. I felt some
compassion for the cockroach when i saw it
Later
 on i re read the 21 praises and was reminded it mentioned that it wards
 of things like pestilence, negative entities and so on

3h
3 hours ago


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Edited

——-

Mr. AP 

“Buddhism is nothing but replacing the 'Self' in Hinduism with Condition Arising. Keep the clarity, the presence, the luminosity and eliminate the ultimate 'Self', the controller, the supreme. Still you must taste, sense, eat, hear and see Pure Awareness in every authentication. And every authentication is Bliss.” - John Tan, 2004

“Understand immense intelligence not as if someone is there to act and direct, rather as total exertion of the universe to make this moment possible; then all appearances are miraculous and marvelous.” - John Tan, 2012

….

In January 2005, John Tan wrote:

“[19:21] <^john^> learn how to experience emptiness and no-selfness. :)

[19:22] <^john^> this is the only way to liberate.

[19:22] <^john^> not to dwell too deeply into the minor aspect of pure awareness. 

[19:23] <^john^> of late i have been seeing songs and poems relating to the luminosity aspect of Pure Awareness.

[19:23] <^john^> uncreated, original, mirror bright, not lost in nirvana and samsara..etc

[19:23] <^john^> what use is there?

[19:24] <ZeN`n1th> oic...

[19:24] <^john^> we have from the very beginning so and yet lost for countless aeons of lives.

[19:25] <^john^> buddha did not come to tell only about the luminosity aspect of pure awareness.

[19:25] <^john^> this has already been expressed in vedas.

[19:25] <^john^> but it becomes Self.

[19:25] <^john^> the ultimate controller

[19:26] <^john^> the deathless

[19:26] <^john^> the supreme.. etc

[19:26] <^john^> this is the problem.

[19:26] <^john^> this is not the ultimate nature of Pure Awareness.

[19:27] <^john^> for full enlightenment to take place, experience the clarity and emptiness.  That's all.”

    And in March 2006, John Tan said:

    <^john^> the different between hinduism and buddhism is they return to the "I AM" and clings to it.

    <^john^> always "I" as the source.

    <ZeN`n1th> icic

    <^john^> but in buddhism it is being replaced by "emptiness nature", there is a purest, an entity, a stage to be gained or achieved is an illusion.

    <^john^> there is none. No self to be found. No identity to assumed. Nothing attained.

    <ZeN`n1th> oic..

    <^john^> this is truly the All.

    <^john^> so for a teaching that is so thorough and complete, why must it resort back to a "True Self"?

    <ZeN`n1th> hmm but i got a question about just now you say impermanent... but mahayana texts also say tathagathagarbha is permanent right?

    <^john^> yes but for other reasons.

    <ZeN`n1th> what kind of reasons

    <ZeN`n1th> wat you mean

    <^john^> first you must know that there is really a very subtle difference between pure subjectivity and emptiness nature.

    <ZeN`n1th> icic

    <^john^> for one that has experienced in full emptiness nature, does he/she need to create an extra "True Self"?

    <ZeN`n1th> so wat difference

    <ZeN`n1th> no

    <^john^> he already knows and experiences and completely understand the arising cause and conditions of why the "true self" was created...

    <^john^> will he still be confused?

    <^john^> he knows exactly what is happening, the reality of the 'self'.

    <ZeN`n1th> icic..

<^john^> i would say it is due to his compassion to let the other sects have a chance to understand the dharma that he said so.

    <^john^> this is what i think.

    <^john^> but there is no necessity to preach something extra.

    <ZeN`n1th> oic

    <^john^> in light of emptiness nature, "True Self" is not necessary.

    <ZeN`n1th> icic

    <^john^> the so called "purest" is already understood, there is no clinging.

    <^john^> there is hearing, no hearer...etc

    <^john^> is already beyond "True Self".

    <ZeN`n1th> oic

    <^john^> yet it exactly knows the stage of "True Self".

    <^john^> if there is no hearing...then something is wrong.

    <^john^>

    <^john^> but there is hearing but no hearer.

    <ZeN`n1th> hahaha

    <ZeN`n1th> oic

    <^john^> put your time into practice and understanding of no-self and emptiness.

    <^john^>

    <ZeN`n1th> ok

— excerpts from https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2022/10/buddha-nature-vs-brahman.html

——-

2006:

(9:06 PM) John:    so i said extend it to the six senses, presence without self

(9:06 PM) John:    sound without hearer

(9:06 PM) John:    scenery without seer

(9:06 PM) AEN:    icic..

(9:06 PM) John:    everything to experience and understand anatta

(9:07 PM) AEN:    icic

(9:07 PM) John:    so that "AMness" presence is experienced in all moment without the need to fall back.

(9:07 PM) AEN:    oic

(9:07 PM) John:    how could there be movement then?

(9:08 PM) John:    it is just arising and ceasing

(9:08 PM) John:    because there is no moment that is not so.

(9:08 PM) AEN:    icic

(9:08 PM) AEN:    ya

(9:08 PM) AEN:    that is not wat?

(9:09 PM) John:    that is not arising and ceasing according to conditions and causes

(9:09 PM) John:    emptiness

(9:09 PM) John:    this must be understood after clarity

(9:09 PM) AEN:    oic

(9:10 PM) John:    but there cannot be any movement, because there is no moment that is not like that

(9:10 PM) AEN:    icic

(9:11 PM) John:    then from this complete clarity, emptiness, no movement, yet everything wonderfully arises and ceases, one experiences the spontaneous arising, the self-so, the unconditioned

(9:11 PM) John:    then there is true insight.

(9:11 PM) AEN:    icic..

(9:11 PM) John:    then karma will make sense

(9:12 PM) John:    because of arising without self

(9:12 PM) John:    arises with causes and condition without self

(9:12 PM) John:    therefore be serious about the deeds

(9:12 PM) AEN:    oic..

(9:13 PM) John:    in "AMness", how does karma step in?

(9:13 PM) John:    he will be confused because "AMness" in its ultimate sense is a controller.

(9:13 PM) AEN:    icic

(9:14 PM) John:    all these are words, it is the true experience that is most crucial.

— excerpt from https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2021/07/this-is-impersonality-aspect-not-anatta.html

2006:

(11:00 PM) John: it rests sort of absorption yet awareness in the moment to moment

(11:01 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:01 PM) John: this is just the beginning of experiencing anatta in the correct sense

(11:01 PM) John: till this experience is stabilized

(11:01 PM) AEN: oic

(11:02 PM) John: then one becomes transparent

(11:02 PM) John: transparency is a very distinct experience

(11:02 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:02 PM) John: it is total vividness, clarity

(11:02 PM) AEN:

<^john^> in fact, ur master would want to experience that pure sensation resulting for differing condition

<^john^> but one should not over do it. :)

(11:03 PM) John: experiencing just the things

(11:03 PM) John: yes...it must come with realisation

(11:03 PM) John: not through will effort

(11:03 PM) AEN: oic

(11:03 PM) John: that is the realisation brings and carries us naturally to this experience

(11:04 PM) John: the realisation and experience of anatta...

(11:04 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:04 PM) John: if we forcefully do it, we will not be able to make it.

(11:04 PM) John: however it is a good practice

(11:05 PM) AEN: oic..

(11:05 PM) John: to reverse the habitual energy of continuous symbolizing

(11:06 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:06 PM) John: once transparency is experienced the first fruition of insight samadhi is experienced.

(11:06 PM) AEN: oic

(11:07 PM) John: this stage is important. :)

(11:07 PM) John: for now, i want to put it more clear to longchen later...

(11:07 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:07 PM) John: the part of stage 5 must be led forward by DO otherwise one will sink back to a source

(11:08 PM) John: very often, this is the case

(11:08 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:09 PM) John: so don't underestimate the simple sentence of "manifestation is the source"

(11:09 PM) AEN: ok

(11:09 PM) John: it is the key to non-duality then lead to DO.

(11:09 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:09 PM) John: it must be DO (dependent origination) that lead one out of the source.

(11:09 PM) AEN: oic..

(11:10 PM) John: then all broken pieces will slowly fall into place

(11:10 PM) John: otherwise we will have all those funny theories like reality is lila

(11:10 PM) John: a game plot of God.

(11:10 PM) AEN: oic

(11:10 PM) John: :)

(11:11 PM) John: that is because causes and conditions is not understood

(11:11 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:11 PM) John: and how awareness becomes causes and conditions

(11:11 PM) AEN: oic

(11:12 PM) John: when luminosity-emptiness is experienced in its total state, then it is dharmakaya

(11:12 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:12 PM) John: by experiencing the luminosity aspect itself is not enough

(11:13 PM) AEN: oic

(11:13 PM) John: it is at best not to tok about transcendental body

(11:13 PM) AEN: lol ok

(11:14 PM) John: and should not confuse ppl unnecessarily

(11:14 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:15 PM) John: actually my intention of toking about stage 5, manifestation is the source is only to longchen initially

(11:16 PM) John: and later JonLS.

(11:16 PM) AEN: oic..

(11:16 PM) John: not to others as it will only confuse them

(11:16 PM) AEN: icic

(11:17 PM) John: do u know that longchen almost gave up once?

(11:17 PM) AEN: haha how come

(11:17 PM) AEN: when

(11:17 PM) John: forgotten. :P

(11:17 PM) AEN: o i remember something like he doesnt want to be liberated.. or something

(11:17 PM) John: yeah

(11:17 PM) AEN: lol

(11:17 PM) AEN: icic

(11:17 PM) AEN: i remember

(11:18 PM) John: cause the time is not right and it will only have reverse effect

—-

2006:

(11:44 AM) John: there is another danger about just having the experience of our luminosity and anatta without placing emphasis on our emptiness nature.

(11:44 AM) John: life becomes just a manifestation of the divine

(11:44 AM) John: and the divine becomes like damn great...

(11:44 AM) AEN: oic..

(11:44 AM) John: actually the divine cannot do anything...lol

(11:44 AM) John: that is why there is never an 'I'. :P

(11:45 AM) AEN: icic..

(11:45 AM) John: and action is karma.

(11:45 AM) AEN: oic

(11:45 AM) John: and unwholesome action results in suffering

(11:45 AM) John: this must be known

(11:45 AM) AEN: icic..

(11:46 AM) John: i think this will gradually evolve and unfold.

——-

Mr. AP the texts i pasted is not pointing to devotion but how to overcome wrong reification of a source

——

Mr. AP devotion is more important for theistic and faith based paths like christianity.

For buddhism, wisdom is primary and key to liberation. Devotion is secondary but can still be an important factor of the path. Faith is an important factor even in the Theravada path and plays an even more crucial role in Mahayana and Vajrayana paths, although to varying degrees and is dependent on the type of practice involved.

But if you are of the highest calibre and can actualize self liberation all the time (and I am not saying this about myself) like Samantabhadra, you can be liberated without even the slightest devotion or virtue involved.

———-

Mr. AP ...At that moment do not be afraid of the yellow light, luminous and clear, sharp and bright, but recognize it as wisdom. Let your mind rest in it, relaxed, in a state of nonaction, and be drawn to it with longing. If you recognize it as the natural radiance of your own mind, even though you do not feel devotion and do not say the inspiration-prayer, all the forms and lights and rays will merge inseparably with you, and you will attain enlightenment...

~ Padmasambhava"

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/08/fearless-samadhi.html

Failing this recognition, down the bardo stages the practitioner is advised to have devotion and pray for rebirth in pure land based on a deity (like Amitabha) if I recall.

——-

Mr. AP 

Devotion is also important when you are practicing surrendering to a higher power. But as I wrote before, such practices are pre anatta practices and only lead to impersonality. That is one of the four aspects of I AM to be refined post the I AM realization.

Post anatta practice takes different form but you can still practice devotion.

“2009: 

(9:50 PM) AEN: icic..

but thats a form of practice rite

like surrendering

(9:50 PM) Thusness: nope

(9:51 PM) Thusness: surrendering requires u to have higher power

(9:51 PM) Thusness: requires to identify a higher subject for u to surrender to

it is an object of practice

(9:52 PM) AEN: oic..

(9:52 PM) Thusness: experience whatever is requires non-dual as pre-requisite

(9:52 PM) Thusness: there is just this empty luminosity

it is already whatever is

anything dual is not it

(9:53 PM) AEN: icic..

(9:53 PM) AEN: i remember david carse was saying surrendering is the way to experience non dual

something like that

(9:53 PM) Thusness: then it is surrendering

(9:53 PM) AEN: but he din say to a higher power or anything i tink

(9:54 PM) Thusness: whatever arises is mind that is why it is direct experience

(9:54 PM) Thusness: it is the highest form of insight

(9:54 PM) Thusness: u don't call surrendering self liberation

don't any mixed up

(9:56 PM) Thusness: when i experience whatever is, i breathe hard, i breathe soft, i rub my hands and legs

(9:56 PM) Thusness: what has that got to do with surrendering

surrender to what?

i eat, i blink my eyes

(9:56 PM) Thusness: what has that got to do with surrendering

don't anyhow say

(9:57 PM) AEN: oic..

(9:57 PM) Thusness: totally different

i walk, i jump

(9:57 PM) Thusness: all experiences are the ground

(9:58 PM) Thusness: all vividly present and spontaneous 'there'

carry water chop wood

(9:58 PM) Thusness: are all just marvellous activities

this is experiencing whatever arises

(9:59 PM) Thusness: nothing to do with surrendering

(9:59 PM) AEN: icic..

(9:59 PM) Thusness: swallowing saliva

(9:59 PM) Thusness: don't talk about spontaneous perfection

(10:00 PM) Thusness: it is because the mind is already non-dual and deep realisation that all is already the ground based on these 2 insights, all experiences becomes that

(10:01 PM) Thusness: because one has already penetrated to the deepest most of insight that is why he can in all actions and movements, he is one with Tao.

(10:01 PM) AEN: oic..

(10:01 PM) Thusness: not because there is something to surrender to, that is to the liberated still a form of illusion.

(10:01 PM) Thusness: but as a skilful means of practice.

(10:03 PM) Thusness: what i told u is to tell u that it is wrong to say that but i don't want u to go tell ppl it is like that

(10:03 PM) Thusness: this is the problem with sentient being

(10:03 PM) Thusness: what said and advice is not followed but what told not to say is spoken

(10:04 PM) Thusness: ended up misleading ppl

like zen

(10:04 PM) Thusness: becomes mouth talk and a path of highest profundity becomes mouth talk

(10:04 PM) AEN: icic..

(10:04 PM) Thusness: don't do that

(10:04 PM) AEN: ok

(10:06 PM) AEN: wat do u tink about this:

(10:07 PM) AEN: "Finally, ultimately, the surrender and the Understanding are the same, even if they are apparently, in perception or experience, separated chronologically. The very concept of 'the total Understanding' necessarily includes surrendering for it begins with the willingness, "Thy will be done", and ends in seeing that one is not."

(10:08 PM) AEN: by david carse

(10:09 PM) Thusness: that is surrendering the self when the self is not thoroughly seen through

it is a way of practice

—-

“Session Start: Saturday, 5 June, 2010

(11:27 PM) Thusness:    certainty of being when you focus on the 4 aspects till the peak and with right understanding, you will also have the same experience as anatta and emptiness. when you felt that the will of the source becomes your will, you become life itself, that is the same experience. actually all is the same experience except that buddhism provides the right understanding. in the experience of "I AM" and the article you posted about the divine, what is the peak of experience phase?

(11:48 PM) AEN:    which article about divine?

Hmm im not sure

(11:49 PM) Thusness:    the article about the source after "I AM"

(11:50 PM) AEN:    is it like the 'sacred will of the world'

i mean the peak of experience

(11:51 PM) Thusness:    after glimpses and realization of the source, when the divine will becomes your will. you must be able to experience every manifestation as the grace of divine will. so must understand this in terms of direct experience and right view. :) i will talk to you when we meet. do you know why there is the sensation of a 'divine will'?

(11:57 PM) AEN:    bcos the sense of self is being let go... and its seen that everything is spontaneously arising from the source

(11:58 PM) Thusness:    and what is this 'source' that seems to be doing the work?

(11:59 PM) AEN:    consciousness, life?

(11:59 PM) Thusness:    isn't "I AM" the consciousness?

(12:00 AM) AEN:    ya but at the beginning it still feels like an individuated sense of presence... but then later its seen as more impersonal, like everything is merely the expression of the source

(12:00 AM) Thusness:    first you must understand the separation is due to dualistic thought, thought separates. do you know what is the 'divine' will? the sensation due to "the sense of self is being let go... and its seen that everything is spontaneously arising from the source" causes the 'divine will'

(12:02 AM) AEN:    oic..

(12:03 AM) Thusness:    what is the divine will?

(12:03 AM) AEN:    it means its happening due to the divine source, nothing is happening due to an individual will/agent/doer

(12:04 AM) Thusness:    when someone hit the bell, anything due to divine will?

(12:05 AM) AEN:    its also divine will bcos there is ultimately no separate person who acts, and no separate person who experience.. everything is manifested by the divine will... including every action that is spontaneously arising

(12:05 AM) Thusness:    when someone hit the bell, anything so divine?

(12:05 AM) AEN:    it’s a manifestation of consciousness

(12:05 AM) Thusness:    no good no good. because of the lack of understanding of your nature. your nature is empty. what is this divine will? it is just DO [dependent origination]. because we think in terms of entity and the 'weight of this dualistic and inherent' tendencies makes us feel separate and inherent. instead of seeing 'DO', we see it as divine will. not knowing empty nature, we mistaken DO for divine will. not knowing no-self nature, we thought we are independent. when no-self is fully experienced and insight of anatta rises, you do not feel source as separated from 'you'

there is merely manifestation, empty luminosity. empty as in DO and therefore does not require 'divine will', yet all manifests due to empty nature, effortless and spontaneous. there is conditions that are required for manifestations. a 'divine will' is not necessary

(12:11 AM) AEN:    icic..

(12:12 AM) Thusness:    when a practitioner realizes no-self and anatta insight arises, he clearly sees conditions. there is no divine will to listen to, but whenever condition is, manifestation is. slowly understand this.  do not see DO as something dead. see it as direct manifestation of your breathe just like you experience everything as the grace of this divine will. feel this grace of life everywhere. letting go of yourself completely and feel this life

(12:18 AM) AEN:    oic.. i am writing my experience to lzls lol

(5:36 PM) Thusness:    Lol.  In Chinese

(6:12 PM) Thusness:    the second experience is more of 天地同根，万物同体. (tian di tong gen, wan wu tong ti: heaven and earth have one root, ten thousand phenomena have the same substance)

(6:12 PM) Thusness:    clouded by '我相' (wo xiang, self image, egoity)

(6:12 PM) AEN:    what do you mean

(6:13 PM) Thusness:    means the second experience is more of a realization on the same source.

much like ?

(6:13 PM) AEN:    oic..

why you said clouded by wo xiang

(6:15 PM) Thusness:    ?  (xiang, image) is simply a construct.  That is from a dualistic point of view, being 'connected' must always be the case.  When you de-contruct personality, you merely discover. a practitioner must also be aware of the 'weight' of these constructs. from an empty point of view, when the tendency is there, it is also not right to say that the interconnected state is always there, always the case.  Obviously 'you' are not 'connected'. when the 'construct' is strong, there is no such experience or when the 'personality' is there, there is no experience of '万物同体' (everything has the same substance/source).  Or 'personality' is that very experience of individuality and therefore cannot have any experience of same 'source'. get it?

(6:19 PM) AEN:    ic.. ya

(6:19 PM) Thusness:    the former does not realize the causes and conditions for any arising. when we say it is always 'there' we are having 'absolute view'.  If we cling to that, then that will prevent clear seeing.  So what is the experience of 'individuality' like?  it is the very experience of what practitioner before the 'connection' feel and understand. that is a state of reality, cannot be said to be determined or not.

(6:21 PM) AEN:    oic.. what you mean by that is a state of reality cannot be said to be determined or not

(6:22 PM) AEN:    hmm i think i get what you mean. so one must deconstruct the individuality otherwise there is no feeling of connection

(6:22 PM) Thusness:    yes. for personality is the very state of individuality. what i want you to understand is not to have a pre-determined state.

(6:26 PM) AEN:    ic... that means according to conditions we experience the connection, but its not always there?

(6:27 PM) Thusness:    yes it is better to understand that way

(6:28 PM) Thusness:    now when you experience certainty of being, you only experience the undeniability of your existence. doubtless, certain and present. but being connected to the source is different. it will also determine your later phase of practice. if you are attached to the Presence, what happened?

(6:31 PM) AEN:    hmm. you mean when you are attached to Presence you will have difficulty seeing the connection?

(6:31 PM) Thusness:    you wanted the state of Presence to transcend to the 3 states (waking, dreaming and sleeping) for you are only interested in that Certainty of Being. whereas when you realized the source, you don't do that. you are surrendering much like the christian. you are devoting. nothing is important besides serving the divine. sustaining the state of presence and devoting to a divine source is different. you sleep when it is time to sleep. whatever thy will is. in Presence, you still think of control, in surrendering, you realized you are being lived. Awareness is being done. it is almost the opposite, but then there is also the integration

(6:35 PM) AEN:    oic.. Actually i think if we let go of control completely the presence is also naturally there, there is no need to try to control presence

(6:36 PM) Thusness:    if you think that, that becomes a hindrance

(6:36 PM) AEN:    oic how come

(6:36 PM) Thusness:    coz you are torn in between. you are serving 2 masters. :P Presence and source. but then there is also the integration where divine will becomes your will. then in jacob ladder meditation, after realization and experience of the grace, it must be found everywhere. therefore you return to phase 1 of the ladder with new understanding. you are directly and intuitively experiencing all manifestations as the expression of life. where you and the divine become one, where phenomena and the divine becomes indistinguishable, as transient, as inner and outer world

(6:40 PM) AEN:    oic..

(6:40 PM) Thusness:    however that is because we are trying to express and understand this in an inherent and dualistic way. we speak in such a way because we are using a dualistic paradigm.  and the experience seems difficult to reconcile and become seamless. so you must arise insight. you realized, what you call Self/self is just a label. this is very difficult to understand. then you are not trapped in 'reconnection' or surrendering. 

You realized there is no-self (Soh: Thusness Stage 4 and 5). whatever experienced is vividly present and aliveness everywhere because what that 'blocks' is no more there through the arising insight. now how clear are you in directly experiencing sensation? in experiencing sound, color, sight, taste? the mind at present is more interested in the behind reality. so anatta transform the experience of individuality through insight, clear seeing. there is a difference in saying what you call Awareness has always been sight, sound, the scent of fragrance… and there is Awareness and there is sound, sight, taste… when you see and mature your insight of anatta, it is realized that wrong view is what that is causing the problem. however after that, you must practice directly

(6:48 PM) AEN:    what do you mean practice directly

(6:48 PM) Thusness:    means you don't think theoretically too much after the arising insight of anatta, there is a difference between thinking that a Weather truly exist and the changing clouds, the rain exist inside weather. get it? so when you took that to be real, it creates the problem of reification and intensifying the inherent existence of Self. if there is no-weight to the constructs, then there would be no problem. unfortunately, constructs are like spells. :)

(6:51 PM) AEN:    oic..

(6:52 PM) Thusness:    do you get what i meant? just experience first. feel this aliveness everywhere. in other words, what you realized is beyond ? (xiang4: [imputed] appearance), but you do not understand the impact of ? (xiang4: [imputed] appearance). anyway you can send your article to your lzls for comments. :)” - June, 2010

——

Mr. AP also the key to anatta is not just “not reifying source”

This is crucial:

2006

(10:55 PM) John: all along, the manifestation is really the source

(10:55 PM) AEN: icic..

(10:55 PM) John: once the extra source that is the habitual energy is given up, Presence is felt everywhere in all arising and ceasing

(10:56 PM) AEN: oic..

(10:56 PM) John: that is from moment to moment, Presence is experienced in varying conditions

(10:56 PM) AEN: icic..

(10:57 PM) John: from blinking eyes...moment to moment...in raising legs, standing up, feet touching ground...moment to moment...presence that is stage 1 is experience in all  

phenomena arising and ceasing

(10:57 PM) John: only the thinking, the hearing, the seeing...

(10:57 PM) John: moment to moment

(10:57 PM) AEN: oic..

(10:57 PM) John: conditions shifts and changes

(10:58 PM) AEN: icic..

(10:58 PM) John: this must be very thorough then the luminosity-emptiness without sinking back to a Source can be experienced

(10:58 PM) John: this is the whole purpose of mindfulness

(10:58 PM) AEN: oic..

(10:59 PM) John: but it becomes tedious for a mind that has not experience no-self or stage 5

(10:59 PM) AEN: icic...

(10:59 PM) John: but to a person that has experienced stage 5, he wants to know even the minutest details

(10:59 PM) John: of every single moment...this i told u before right?

——

Mr. AP 

Spend not even a thought moment for the source and dwell completely into the incredible realness of the phenomenal world (along with contemplating the two stanzas of anatta as seal, always already so), then you will breakthrough

2006:

(7:02 PM) John: the manifestation is the source, spend not even a moment of thought for the source.

(7:02 PM) AEN: icic..

(7:03 PM) John: the stage is the real within the apparent

(7:03 PM) AEN: oic...

(7:03 PM) AEN: eh

(7:04 PM) John: i think i wrote to u about telling longchen to dissolve the self in the incredible realness of the phenomenon

world right?

(7:04 PM) AEN: they never write correctly i tink

(7:04 PM) AEN: icic..

(7:04 PM) AEN: yea

(7:04 PM) AEN: by PM right?

(7:05 PM) John: hm...yeah....i wrote him another pm after he has a glimpse of it.

(7:05 PM) AEN: oh not sure whether u sent me

(7:05 PM) John: What about the unmanifested is the manifest?

(7:05 PM) John: din send u. :P

(7:05 PM) AEN: oic

(7:05 PM) AEN: manifest is unborn?

(7:05 PM) AEN: all dharmas are unborn

(7:06 PM) John: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unmanifested is the manifestation,

The no-thing of everything,

Completely still yet ever flowing,

This is the spontaneous arising nature of the source.

Simply Self-So.

Use self-so to overcome conceptualization.

Dwell completely into the incredible realness of the phenomenal world.

(7:06 PM) John: the last sentence is very important.

(7:06 PM) AEN: o icic

(7:07 PM) John: when is the part i told him about just the happening and spend not even a thought moment for the source?

——

2006:

(10:48 PM) John: when the mind turns away from the source and focus on manifestation, it forgoes images and realises its intimate relationship btw with the arising and ceasing

(10:48 PM) AEN: oic..

(10:48 PM) John: however it is not entirely clear yet due to habitual energy though the glimpse is strong

(10:48 PM) John: that it is the reality

(10:48 PM) John: but it is still not clear.

(10:48 PM) AEN: oic

(10:48 PM) John: this is a crucial state

(10:48 PM) John: very crucial in fact

(10:49 PM) John: in either sinking back to a source as in the advaita or buddhism anatta

…

…That is why “Manifestation is the Source” is crucial. When effort is not diverted to ‘returning to a source’  

which is another ‘karmic doing’, the mind cease

(11:22 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:23 PM) John: the mind ceases to be anything but only this the ever arising and ceasing phenomena that manifest according to causes and conditions. Then the initial experience of 

Pure Presence must be experienced in every moment of Arising and Ceasing in all its diversities and manifolds.

(11:23 PM) John: I refuse to talk about the One Reality for fear that it is mistaken as the Eternal Witness before the experience of no-self and emptiness nature due to the similarity 

in descriptions.

What is the crucial condition that gives rise to the experience of All is the One Reality?

(11:23 PM) John: It is the intense moment-to-moment experience of Presence in all manifestation that gives rise to this understanding. That is, it is the vivid Presence in All 

Phenomena Arising without entry and exit that serve as the condition. All descriptions pale when compared to the actual experience.

(11:24 PM) John: It is the same initial experience of Presence except that now it is experienced as the phenomena itself. This is the condition for the arising of noble wisdom to know 

our true nature. This is the transparency of the ‘Self’ that gives rise to wisdom to see the Dharmakaya -- The body of truth.

(11:24 PM) John: With the stability of this experience, it gives birth to the Transcendent Body that is characterized by blissfulness, clarity, vividness and vitality as the first 

level of fruition. There is no ending to this experience. May you experience the full truth of Dharma.

----

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 Tyler Jones

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I completely agree that there are other dimensions to the spiritual path than the insights that the AtR model maps so well. (At the very least, those who believe in Buddhist maps will admit that arhatship or full Buddhahood is about more than this.) There are at least two different qualities that I want to tease out that are intertwined in your post: Unconditional-universal love and devotion. Devotion as a spiritual path is using the emotion of devotion directed toward something higher as rocket fuel for your path. One of my teachers speaks on the potential power of the devotional path, but clarifies that you have to have a certain disposition to follow it. It's no for everyone, in particular, it's not his path, and it doesn't seem that it was the path of the Buddha. Unconditional, universal love does not necessarily include this quality of devotion, but you don't need a certain disposition to access and make use of it. It can take you into jhana/samadhi territory and is recommend by the Buddha for numerous reasons as beneficial for the path.

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Aditya Prasad

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Tyler Jones Thanks for making this clarification. I find them to be closely related, even inseparable. The more I orient toward the intrinsic unconditional love of reality, the more my heart spontaneously opens to it in deep devotion. It appears to me that deeper knowledge about the "whys" and "hows" of reality creation is somehow connected to the development of this quality. I only bring it up now because I've recently spoken to a couple of other AtR members (who unlike me have deep insight per AtR) who have noticed something similar.

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Soh Wei Yu

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Tyler Jones You are right. Buddha did not follow a path of devotion based on what I've read and he also did not teach a path of devotion in his early teachings. He did however teach metta (loving kindness), and it will be able to lead to the sort of experience Aditya is eluding to. And yes indeed, in my limited experience with metta practice, it leads to a love that emanates and pervades from the heart chakra which leads to all pervading piti/bliss and jhana. A somewhat different flavor from for example, anapanasati induced jhana.

I have not read this book but it might be relevant:

https://www.amazon.com/Heart.../dp/1611802350/ref=sr_1_1...

The Heart of Unconditional Love: A Powerful New Approach to Loving-Kindness Meditation Paperback – Illustrated, March 31, 2015

by Tulku Thondup (Author)

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A new, four-stage approach to the popular Buddhist practice known as loving-kindness meditation, with the aim of finding unconditional love in our own hearts, in our relationships, and in our perception of the world around us.

The unconditional love that we all long for—in our own lives and in the world around us—can be awakened effectively with this unique approach to the Tibetan Buddhist practice of loving-kindness meditation. Tulku Thondup gives detailed guidance for meditation, prayers, and visualization in four simple stages that can be practiced in as little as thirty minutes a session. The four-stage format is a brand-new approach being presented for the first time in English, distilled from the author's lifelong study and practice of authentic, traditional teachings.

What if we could experience not only our own body, mind, and heart as a boundless source of loving-kindness, but every particle of the world around us as a beautiful realm filled with the blessing energies of the Buddhas and their celestial abodes? The whole environment would become a miraculous display of unconditional love, wisdom, and power, accompanied by the sweet music of holy prayers and inspirational teachings. This is not just a dream or a fantasy but an effective meditation practice that can bring relief from stress, healing to mind and body, healthier relationships, and a positive new outlook on the world around you.

Loving-kindness meditations are a highly effective way to generate positive causation, bring true peace and love into our lives, and release ourselves from habitual suffering. When we train ourselves to desire the happiness and well-being of others, with the unconditional love of a mother who cares wholeheartedly for her little ones, we find our whole world pervaded by the positive qualities of joy, peace, and beauty. The training can be compared to sunbathing. As our body absorbs the sun's heat, it becomes warm and gradually emanates that warmth into our surroundings. In the same way, through devotion and trust in the Buddha of Loving-Kindness, we immerse our mind in his unconditional love, which we then radiate to those around us.

The Heart of Unconditional Love presents this meditation in a new, four-stage format distilled from the author's lifelong study and practice of authentic, traditional teachings. The meditation can be practiced in as little as thirty minutes a session:

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• In the Inner Buddha Stage, we experience the Buddha's unconditional love within and for ourselves.

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The Heart of Unconditional Love: A Powerful New Approach to Loving-Kindness Meditation

The Heart of Unconditional Love: A Powerful New Approach to Loving-Kindness Meditation

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