Ms. A.A
First time posting, a bit long, please be gentle 🙂
Many years ago, 14 or 15, one night around 11pm I was on a local bus going home after seeing my brother and I suffered. I suffered so badly I thought about dying any minute, all the time, I didn't want this life, I didn't want this mind, this body, I deeply hated everything everything. I felt so insecure, I wished someone was there with me, I wanted to turn back and go with my brother to his apartment, just to kill this dread, this painful feeling inside. I watched him see me off to the bus stop and my heart was breaking in million pieces because I didn't want to be alone. But I got on this bus anyway and was on my way home with just about 4 or 5 people on the bus. So I have about 2 or 3 stops from home when suddenly it comes to my mind to accept. Accept everything just as it is. I just repeated this word - accept. I got a funny fuzzy feeling in my head on both sides of my brain. And within a split second I was in bliss. Actually bliss is not the word, I cannot describe it. I looked through the window and the distinction between me and the rest of the world disappeared. I was the world, I was this bus, I was the tree, I was the people, I was what I was seeing. It was amazing. I was limitless, I disappeared but was more there than ever before. I was pure joy. And I was not. There was no me, no story, my past, everything, I remembered it but it was like a movie, (a particularly bad movie at that 🙂 I never experienced such pure joy because it was as if I was asleep all my life and suddenly awoke, the blind was taken off my eyes, I am perfect, because I am the same as the rest of the world - one with everything, just like the rest of us, perfect. I went home and looked at my mum and didn't hate her. The past didn't matter. It was just a story, I didn't attach any emotions to it. I still had pain but it didn't matter, I knew it would go when it's ready, and if it's not then fine, I was already perfect what more can I want? The good and the bad was the same coin - just different sides. I accepted that there is nothing more than one energy , one consciousness and that we are all it. No divides, no boundaries, just pure awareness. It lasted for 4 days and the suffering came back, harder than before to the point where I had to do something about it. I had no context for what happened to me. I had read The Power of Now 2 years before that, and had thoughts that maybe it was a similar experience to Tolle's but I never meditated, wasn't interested in Buddhism or any religion and didn't even dare to think in terms of awakening, I wasn't a practitioner so how could it happen to me? I didn't want it, or seek it. When the conditioning came back it was hardcore, I experienced anxiety, depresonalisation, derealisation and some insomnia. Eventually took anti-depressants because I had no idea how to work with it, it was overwhelming. I then filed that experience under Do Not Touch and "forgot" about it.. I watched some non-duality videos over the years but really couldn't identify with any of those teachings, a well and soft spoken white guy sitting up on a podium, with fresh flowers on a table, talking in a strange, gentle way into a microphone to an audience saying There is no one there, it's all an illusion, nothing to do.. it didn't feel like I knew what they were talking about.. until I saw Angelo's interview at BATGAP and someone spoke my language, normal guy, using similar language, it really awakened something in me.
I decided to do the online silent retreat that he was offering in June and that's when the process started again. It was a wild ride even before the actual retreat, a week before I woke up with such extreme pain in my back, sciatica in both legs, couldn't move and spent a week on the floor catering to the pain like a good soldier, yes sir, right away sir, ordering foam mattresses, CBD oil, lying flat on my back for days. I knew it was related to the retreat, but I still believed the pain strategy until one night exhausted went into the A&E, got tired of waiting, went home at 2am after 7 hours of waiting, sat in the garden and thought: This pain is bu££$hit, it's total BS, I am just really scared.. and the pain vanished before I even finished that thought. During the retreat, which was amazing, I had other symptoms all over the body, racing thoughts, difficulty sitting still and strong resistance. At night I would go to bed and have energy shooting up and down my torso, pins and needles, shivers.. it was amazing to watch and observe my whole being fighting. It all went away when the retreat ended. I started doing self-inquiry and shifted into no self spontaneously again and again the emotional rebound happened a day later.. Finally today I recognised how shocking and hardcore that experience 15 years ago was for me.. and cried the whole morning from this insight, from relief of admitting that yes, maybe it was beautiful but I also bungee jumped way beyond my level and got really burnt by the infinite. And that now my whole being is fighting it, because I don't know a gentle way, so the resistance is enormous even though it's quite easy for me to shift. I have no trust in the process, and yet I cannot leave it alone any more. What would you recommend I start with? I have fear of meditation because it's also a strong experience every time, just like inquiry. Any thoughts really welcome 🙂
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Tommy McNally
The first thing to know is that everything you've described is perfectly normal. Even the depression, physical/energetic sensations and other unpleasant symptoms are, based purely on the timeline of events, most likely related to that initial breakthrough.
It's in situations like this where it can be very useful to have at least a rough map of the territory travered on the spiritual path. Your own descriptions align with what's known as the Progress of Insight model - a simple, but oddly accurate map of the stages and experiences you're likely to encounter if you start to investigate the nature of reality.
In your case, you've passed the point of no return known as Knowledge of the Arising & Passing Away. This is the typical peak experience that many describe, and often mistake for full awakening but which, as has happened to you, fades off after a period of time. Once you've crossed this threshold, you're officially on the ride and there's no getting off. I tried myself many times in the past but was always pulled back to practice, whether I wanted to or not.
For many people, the period after that peak experience fades can be horrible, and sometimes utterly devastating as your entire conditioned cognitive and emotional frameworks have been undermined by direct experience of the nature of mind. This tends to cause disruption and all manner of unpleasantness, until you learn the lessons of this particular stage: Letting go and releasing every sensation, pleasant, neutral and unpleasant, into that same vast, indestructible, space-like nature you glimpsed when the bliss overcame you.
It may be beneficial to practice basic samatha and stick to training attention, rather than getting into direct investigation right now. That way, you can decrease the chances of getting pulled into those thought loops and the weird anxieties and fears conditioned by their arising. Also, applying something like tonglen - aka sending and receiving - but with emphasis on generating compassion, acceptance and equanimity towards yourself first of all. Once you're more comfortable and feel a bit more balanced, you can then work on sending and receiving those feelings.
Please don't worry about this stuff too much. There are plenty of us here who've cycled through these stages repeatedly, and sometimes for decades, so if you want to know more then there'll be someone who can help. Again, everything you've described is normal and aligns with my own experiences, as well as that of countless others throughout history. It sounds like you may have a karmic connection to the Buddhadharma, so take advantage of that if you feel like this stuff resonates with your experience.
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3d
Ms. A.AAuthor
Tommy McNally Thanks Tommy for taking the time to respond, appreciate it. It all sounds familiar and calming. Maybe except "the point of no return" which sounds a bit doom-ey 😃 but I get it. Not that I had any choice anyway. I will google samatha and tonglen, calming the mind is needed. Intuitively it feels like I can't do inquiry at the moment. Thank you for sharing your personal experience too.
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3d
Tommy McNally
Ms. A.A I know it could sound doom-ey, and admittedly I was reluctant to use that particular phrase for that very reason. At the same time though, it really is a major event in the progress of any practioner and marks a turning point in the way you fundamentally perceive reality. Once you've had a glimpse of actuality in that very direct, visceral way, it's impossible to go back to seeing the world in the same way you did before. That's more what I meant about being a "point of no return", although it also does have an impact on the way your formal meditation sessions will unfold, which is another subject for another time.
Nafis posted an excellent description of tonglen, which is a profound and beautiful practice. Samatha is just basic one-pointed concentration practice, which can be healing and helpful for navigating the stages you're currently going through. Both are gentle enough to allow you to maintain a practice while you're feeling this way, and will also lay the foundations for future practices should you choose to pursue them.
Take it easy on yourself. Ask away if you have any questions, and don't beat yourself up if you find yourself struggling. As myself and Nafis have said, a lot of us on here understand this stuff painfully well, so don't he afraid to ask, even if you think you're going mad. 😂
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3d
Nafis Rahman
I agree fully with Tommy McNally's comment above. Many of us in this group have had similar experiences, it's a completely normal occurrence after initial non-dual glimpses.
“I accepted that there is nothing more than one energy , one consciousness and that we are all it. No divides, no boundaries, just pure awareness.”
“I started doing self-inquiry and shifted into no self spontaneously again and again the emotional rebound happened a day later.. Finally today I recognised how shocking and hardcore that experience 15 years ago was for me.. and cried the whole morning from this insight, from relief of admitting that yes, maybe it was beautiful but I also bungee jumped way beyond my level and got really burnt by the infinite. And that now my whole being is fighting it, because I don't know a gentle way, so the resistance is enormous even though it's quite easy for me to shift”
Is this shift permanent now or still fluctuating between normal consciousness vs pure awareness?
“During the retreat, which was amazing, I had other symptoms all over the body, racing thoughts, difficulty sitting still and strong resistance. At night I would go to bed and have energy shooting up and down my torso, pins and needles, shivers.. it was amazing to watch and observe my whole being fighting. It all went away when the retreat ended.”
For energy imbalances, there are some tips in the main ATR guide you can check out [section: Tips on Energy Imbalances] - https://app.box.com/s/157eqgiosuw6xqvs00ibdkmc0r3mu8jg
Tsoknyi Rinpoche, “Open Mind, Open Heart”:
“Vase Breathing
One of the methods that helped this woman and countless others cope with emotions is a practice that helps us draw lung back to its center, or “home.” For this, we use a special breathing technique as a tool, because breath is a physical correlation to the subtle wind energy of lung.
This technique is called vase breathing, and it involves breathing even more deeply than the type of deep diaphragmatic breathing often taught in many yoga and other types of classes with which people may be familiar.
The technique itself is rather simple. First, exhale slowly and completely, collapsing the abdominal muscles as close to the spine as possible. As you slowly breathe in, imagine that you’re drawing your breath down to an area about four finger widths below your navel, just above your pubic bone. This area is shaped a bit like a vase, which is why the technique is called vase breathing. Of course, you’re not really drawing your breath down to that region, but by turning your attention there, you will find yourself inhaling a bit more deeply than usual and will experience a bit more of an expansion in the vase region.
As you continue to draw your breath in and your attention down, your lung will gradually begin to travel down there and begin to rest there. Hold your breath down in the vase region just for a few seconds - don’t wait until the need to exhale becomes urgent - then slowly breathe out again.
Just breathe slowly this way three or four times, exhaling completely and inhaling down into the vase area. After the third or fourth inhalation, try holding a little bit of your breath - maybe 10 percent - in the vase area at the end of the exhalation, focusing very lightly and gently on maintaining a bit of lung in its home place.
Try it now.
Exhale completely and then breathe slowly and gently down to the vase area three or four times, and on the last exhalation, hold a little bit of breath in the vase area. Keep this up for about ten minutes.
How did that feel?
Maybe it was a little uncomfortable. Some people have said that directing their breath in this way is difficult. Others have said that doing so gave them a sense of calmness and centeredness they’d never felt before.
Vase breathing, if practiced ten or even twenty minutes every day, can become a direct means of developing awareness of our feelings and learning how to work with them even while we’re engaged in our daily activities. When our lung is centered in its home place, our bodies, or feelings, and our thoughts gradually find a healthy balance. The horse and rider work together in a very loose and easy way, neither trying to seize control or drive the other crazy. In the process, we find that subtle body patterns associated with fear, pain, anxiety, anger, restlessness, and so on gradually loosen up, that there’s a little bit of space between the mind and the feelings.
Ultimately the goal is to be able to maintain that small bit of breath in the vase area throughout the day, during all our activities - walking, talking, eating, drinking, driving. For some people, this ability becomes automatic after only a short while of practice. For others, it may require a bit more time.
I have to admit that, even after years of practicing, I still find that I sometimes lose my connection to my home base, especially when meeting with people who are very speedy. I’m a bit of a speedy person myself, and meeting other speedy people acts as a kind of subtle body stimulus. I get caught up in their restless and displaced energy and consequently become a bit restless, nervous, and sometimes even anxious. So I take what I call a reminder breath: exhaling completely, breathing down into the vase area, and then exhaling again leaving a little bit of breath in the lung’s home.”
Me: one can also try walking near nature everyday for at least one hour, doing grounding exercises or some form of qigong/energetic practices, etc if the symptoms continue to persist.
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Ms. A.AAuthor
Nafis Rahman "Is this shift permanent now or still fluctuating between normal consciousness vs pure awareness?" it's not permanent, it comes and goes and if it comes there is an emotional rebound that happens after. I did self-inquiry last week, spent a day in no self, couldn't find it anywhere, cried at how beautiful and innocent everything felt and then the next day was in mental pain - overwhelmed with my "stuff" - feelings of guilt, shame, anger etc. Now I'm scared to even "touch" it because clearly I don't know how to do it. I'm working through those feelings and thoughts, just allowing them, but the natural instinct is to suppress.
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3d
Nafis Rahman
Ms. A.A
Angelo has good instructions for practicing self-enquiry in his book/Youtube channel which you probably encountered before since you attended his retreat. Once your energy imbalance is resolved, these are a few additional pointers you can try in the future if they resonate for permanently realizing pure consciousness/awareness:
'Natural Radiance' - Lama Surya Das:
Once your mind is calm, focused, lucid, and clear, abruptly turn the mind on itself—mind the mind and turn it inward, with laserlike self-inquiry questions: “Who is thinking my thoughts? Who is trying to meditate? Who is it; what is it; where is it? Who is experiencing my experience right now?”
There is no need to analyze too much—just abruptly pop the question and observe what happens. Let go and see if you can startle yourself into a new way of seeing and being, short-circuiting your usual outward-looking, dualistic thought process of self and other. See through the seer, directly experience the experiencer, and be free; rest in luminous centerless openness, the natural Great Perfection, pure presence, rigpa.
Again cutting even deeper, abruptly turn the mind upon itself again: Who is experiencing? Who and what is hearing? Who and what is seeing, thinking, and feeling? Who is having these physical sensations? Who is it; what is it; where is it? Is it in the head; is it in the body; is it in the heart; is it in the mind and consciousness? Who is experiencing? Who or what am I? How is it happening? See if you can enter the bottomless gap between thoughts, beneath thoughts. See if you can directly experience whatever is not thought—the luminous awareness that exists prethought or beyond or beneath thought, or after all thought has ceased. Trace the source of all of your thoughts, feelings, experiences, physical sensations, and perceptions. Notice how they arise, and, after they arise, where they are in your present experience and where they go. See if you can follow the disillusion point back into the luminous void that is centerless—the openness that is everything’s ultimate identity, the great Who, the great What that is known as buddha nature. And if you cannot find anything to follow, just rest in that great silence, and be nothing for just one instant. Being nothing but pure awareness for an instant would be transformative in itself, and more than enough. Emaho!
When the mind starts to move, as it will, and thoughts and feelings and physical sensations again begin to proliferate, turn the mind upon itself again instead of looking outward at outer phenomena, projections, and perceptions. Turn the searchlight inward and mind the mind, becoming more keenly aware of awareness itself. Continue this laserlike questioning of who and what is experiencing, who is thinking, who is hearing, who, what, where, how and then let go and release—drop everything: drop body and mind—and sense who or what is present between thoughts and when thought has ceased, even for a moment. If you discover that you really do not know who you are, then that is enough. That is what is true for you in this moment, and that is sufficient truth for now.
…
In zazen neither despise nor cherish the thoughts that arise; only search your own Mind, the very source of these thoughts. You must understand that anything appearing in your consciousness or seen by your eyes is an illusion, of no enduring reality. Hence you should neither fear nor be fascinated by such phenomena. If you keep your mind as empty as space, unstained by extraneous matters, no evil spirits can disturb you even on your deathbed. While engaged in zazen, however, keep none of this counsel in mind. You must only become the question “What is this Mind?” or “What is it that hears these sounds?” When you realize this Mind you will know that it is the very source of all Buddhas and sentient beings. The Bodhisattva Kannon [Avalokitesvara] is so called because he attained enlightenment by perceiving [that is, grasping the source of] the sounds of the world about him.
At work, at rest, never stop trying to realize who it is that hears. Even though your questioning penetrates the unconscious, you won’t find the one who hears, and all your efforts will come to naught. Yet sounds can be heard, so question yourself to an even profounder level. At last every vestige of self-awareness will disappear and you will feel like a cloudless sky. Within yourself you will find no “I,” nor will you discover anyone who hears. This Mind is like the void, yet it hasn’t a single spot that can be called empty. Do not mistake this state for Self-realization, but continue to ask yourself even more intensely, “Now who is it that hears?” If you bore and bore into this question, oblivious to anything else, even this feeling of voidness will vanish and you won’t be aware of anything—total darkness will prevail. [Don’t stop here, but] keep asking with all your strength, “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present. Test yourself with this koan: “A monk asked Joshu: “What is the meaning of Bodhidharma’s coming to China?’ Joshu replied: ‘The oak tree in the garden.’ ” Should this koan leave you with the slightest doubt, you need to resume questioning, “What is it that hears?”
If you don’t come to realization in this present life, when will you? Once you have died you won’t be able to avoid a long period of suffering in the Three Evil Paths. What is obstructing realization? Nothing but your own halfhearted desire for truth. Think of this and exert yourself to the utmost.
- Rinzai Zen Master Bassui Tokusho in “The Three Pillars of Zen”
Self-enquiry instructions by Ramana Maharshi: https://www.happinessofbeing.com/#self-enquiry
This guide has further references as well: https://app.box.com/s/zc0suu4dil01xbgirm2r0rmnzegxaitq
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2d
Nafis Rahman
This is a description I found helpful in the past in regards to I AM realization:
In order to answer the question “Who am I?”, in order to go back to before the beginning within your own experience, you have to put your attention on the deepest sense of what it feels like to be yourself right now, and simultaneously let everything else go. Letting go means falling so deeply into yourself that all that is left is empty space.
To discover that infinite depth in your own self, you must find a way to enter into a deep state of meditation—so deep that your awareness of thought moves into the background and eventually disappears. As your awareness detaches itself from the thought-stream, your identification with emotion and memory begins to fall away. When awareness of thought disappears, awareness of the passing of time disappears along with it. If you keep penetrating into the infinite depths of your own self, even your awareness of your own physical form will disappear.
If you go deep enough, letting your attention expand and release from all objects in consciousness, you will find that all the structures of the created universe begin to crumble before your eyes. Awareness itself—limitless, empty, pristine—becomes the only object of your attention.
As your attention is released from the conditioned mind-process, freed from the confines of the body and the boundaries of the personal self-sense, the inner dimension of your own experience begins to open up to an immeasurable degree. Imagine that you have been fast asleep in a small, dark chamber, then suddenly awaken to find yourself floating in the infinite expanse of a vast, peaceful ocean. That’s what this journey to the depths of your own self feels like. You become aware of a limitless dimension that you did not even know was there. Moments before, you may have experienced yourself as being trapped, a prisoner of your body, mind, and emotions. But when you awaken to this new dimension, all sense of confinement disappears. You find yourself resting in, and as, boundless empty space.
In that empty space, the mind is completely still; there is no time, no memory, not even a trace of personal history. And the deeper you fall into that space, the more everything will continue to fall away, until finally all that will be left is you. When you let absolutely everything go—body, mind, memory, and time—you will find, miraculously, that you still exist. In fact, in the end, you discover that all that exists is you!”
_____________
The contemplation of consciousness—which is the contemplation of no-thing whatsoever—is endlessly fascinating. It’s like staring at a candle in a dark night—you find yourself mesmerized by something that is unchanging yet infinitely compelling. You feel drawn into something you don’t understand rationally but that your heart or soul grasps completely. You are drawn into it, and as you are drawn into it, the only thing you experience as real is the eternal or timeless nature of Being itself. You find yourself in a state of rapture, because the deepest part of yourself has been released from your ego’s endless fears and concerns, and drawn out of the time process altogether.”
_______________
“The secret of enlightenment is the absolute, unequivocal conviction that it exists.
What does that mean? It means you have discovered an unshakable confidence in the fact of nonduality—in the perennial mystical revelation that IT IS . . . and I AM THAT. A confidence in that which can never be seen or known is the very ground of the enlightened state. Being is ungraspable, it’s unknowable, it’s ever elusive, and yet it is the only place you can find true confidence in life. Why? Because it is the very source of life itself.
The conscious experience of Being, which is what enlightenment is, has always been the ultimate answer to the most fundamental spiritual questions: Who am I? and Why am I here? Those who have tasted enlightened awareness find that in that experience, any trace of existential doubt and all the questions that go along with it instantaneously disappear. It’s not even that they are answered, but rather, the questions lose their meaning. When you locate the nonrelative, or absolute, nature of consciousness in the depths of your own self, it is experienced as a clarity that is empty of content; a weightiness that is full of nothing in particular; a profound knowing that dissolves all questions. In that questionless state, you find yourself profoundly rooted and radically free, supported by an absolute confidence in the knowing of no-thing that changes everything. The experience of that empty ground is the answer—the one answer that always liberates each and every one of us. You simply know, unequivocally, before thought, that I am. That’s the only answer: I AM. There is no why.”
From: https://www.amazon.com/Evolutionary.../dp/1590792092
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2dEdited
Nafis Rahman
https://www.facebook.com/groups/AwakeningToReality/posts/6413871238654252/
I'm not an expert on shadow work, but these are a few books I sampled in the past and mentioned in a previous post related to this topic:
Nafis Rahman
Chris Jones Mathias can answer better, but personally yes. I went through lots of purging in the past after experiencing certain energetic phenomena and at a certain point it’s necessary to embrace every aspect of one’s being/existence although it can be difficult to directly approach certain aspects of our inner realm. I think it’s human nature to actively repress or dissociate from our emotions, especially when young, rather than mindfully investigating them until they completely dissolve. The Body Keeps the Score mentioned above is a good intro to complex ptsd by Bessel van der Kolk who’s considered an expert in this field. In terms of practical exercises, you can check out Complex PTSD + The Tao of Fully Feeling by Pete Walker, books on self-compassion such as The Mindful Path to Self-Compassion by Christopher Germer, Self-Compassion by Kristen Neff, Mindful Compassion by Paul Gilbert/Choden, Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment by Pat Ogden and Janina Fischer, Getting Past Your Past by Francine Shapiro (founder of EMDR plus a really good book), Resilience by Linda Graham, etc. Honestly speaking what’s even harder is dealing with karmic traces from previous lives, since emotional trauma can be non-localized (...)
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2d
Ms. A.AAuthor
Nafis Rahman Amazing, thank you ❤
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2d
Ms. A.AAuthor
Nafis Rahman Qigong is a great idea. And nature.
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3d
Nafis Rahman
This is a related conversation:
[12:03 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: I think it is a natural progression otherwise one can't really understand what it meant by natural openness. Hope you don't have to go through the hard way...lol
[12:05 AM, 3/28/2019] Soh Wei Yu: Ya cos the concentrated mode is causing suffering for me
[12:05 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Ai but you kept focusing on wrong thing
[12:06 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: And if you reached a state of no return ... You will have to face it for life
[12:06 AM, 3/28/2019] Soh Wei Yu: Oic.. Wah
[12:06 AM, 3/28/2019] Soh Wei Yu: Focusing on what wrong thing
[12:06 AM, 3/28/2019] Soh Wei Yu: And how to avoid
[12:06 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: I am serious
[12:07 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: It is difficult as it has become a habit as much I have been showing compassion for you
[12:07 AM, 3/28/2019] Soh Wei Yu: Oic.. what habit
[12:07 AM, 3/28/2019] Soh Wei Yu: But I have been trying not to focus on the radiance lately
[12:08 AM, 3/28/2019] Soh Wei Yu: I think my energy is getting better but not completely cured
[12:08 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Don't notice on the details, go for somatic... Let your body take the load and stress
[12:08 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Exercise and do yoga
[12:09 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Don't think.. don't engage...don't analyse...don't even think what has changed..colors or whatsoever
[12:09 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: For now, you are still far away from understanding the energetic pattern of non-attachment
[12:10 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: You can't differentiate tension from release as I have told geo.
[12:10 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: If you have understood you won't be suffering.
[12:11 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: If you have understood you won't be telling me that...everything will be naturally open and light
[12:12 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Be without center, don't engage in everything
[12:12 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Focus on your yoga
[12:12 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: On your body
[12:12 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Don't think of dharma
[12:12 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Don't think of radiance
[12:12 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Don't think of what UG said.
[12:12 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: All these will not help you
[12:13 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Focus on your body and do yoga
[12:13 AM, 3/28/2019] Soh Wei Yu: Ok
[12:13 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: And this need time to allow your body to take over
[12:13 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: I have told you focus on the somatic
[12:15 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: You have so much wrong understanding
[12:15 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: your body doesn't know what is relaxation at all
[12:15 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: So is your mind
[12:16 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: So first train your body to relax
[12:16 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Know what is letting go
[12:16 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Do you know what is be tired and let go?
[12:16 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Do you know how your body get tired and let go?
[12:17 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: your body must know how to relax and let go ... your mind kept interfering
[12:17 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: So be determined to really learn how your body relax
[12:17 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Get it?
[12:18 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Know exhalation fully as letting go
[12:18 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: You can do a million times yet Everytime is different
[12:19 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Let your body learn what is natural relaxation
[12:20 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: your body is so conditioned that the way you think it is let go is in actually holding tightly
[12:21 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Because we don't actually know how
[12:21 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: I can tell you that you won't know
[12:22 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Because you are using your mind
[12:22 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: But it maybe using a metal plate to scratch your stomach which is totally out of your mind
[12:22 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: It maybe putting hot water on your feet because you din know it
[12:23 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: It maybe exhalation
[12:23 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: It maybe shitting
[12:23 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: It maybe perspiring
[12:23 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: But your mind never think of anything like that right?
[12:23 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: It may be massaging your legs
[12:24 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: But because your mind is so conditioned, you only use your mind to think to go through a process of thinking your way towards letting your body release
[12:24 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Get it?
[12:25 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: You are using your mind to think of this and that
[12:25 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: You do not know your body at all
[12:25 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: So you think it is relaxing
[12:26 AM, 3/28/2019] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[12:28 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: 刮痧器
[12:28 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Scratch your chest and stomach can help you relax better.
[12:29 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: All these are part of understanding your body
[12:29 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Eating too much is tension
[12:29 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Get it?
[12:34 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: You working tomorrow right?
[8:05 AM, 3/28/2019] Soh Wei Yu: Yeah I’m working
[8:05 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Slept ok?
[8:06 AM, 3/28/2019] Soh Wei Yu: Sleeping was still difficult, I didn’t know what time I fell asleep but I Guess slightly better than two days back (Comments by Soh: the following days were worse, on one day I could not sleep at all and had brief hallucinations/images the next day and entered trance like states)
[8:06 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Then it is still ok
[8:06 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Don't think too much
[8:07 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Just keep focusing on somatic and bodily release
[8:07 AM, 3/28/2019] Soh Wei Yu: Ok..
[8:08 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: Another good way is to practice anatta on compassion for others ... Not on the radiance
[8:09 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: That is the only two thing you should focus now
[8:10 AM, 3/28/2019] John Tan: If you can't go yoga you can just practice shaking your hand and body and relax... Feel the vibrating sensation of the blood flow of your body
“(To someone experiencing insomnia that lasted a week after realizing anatta:) Did you overfocus on the radiance in the day? Is your luminosity too intense and do you experience energy surges? You should learn yoga and do vase breathing and circulate your energies. If you are experiencing an energy imbalance, stop thinking about anything for now, even anatta, awareness, emptiness, etc. Just relax and let go. Don't focus on radiance for now. Be more human. Be mindful of energy being stuck in crown and third eye area. And an unconscious tendency to focus on the third eye. Bring your energy to the lower body with abdominal breathing and then to the ground. If after the realisation of anatta one has the misunderstanding that you have to focus to experience more, that will strain your subtle body and nervous system and create an imbalance. Release the overfocused pattern of radiance. It is important to be wide open, dissolve and relax into openness.. Do not be rigid or forceful or over-concentrated.“ - Soh, 2019
Also see: Qigong to Circulate Energy https://youtu.be/EZT8RC0wRbA (referenced from the ATR guide)
https://youtu.be/ZcB6iUsj25s (Subtle Body 07 (Lung is Home)) - Tsoknyi Rinpoche
Qigong to Circulate Your Energy
YOUTUBE.COM
Qigong to Circulate Your Energy
Qigong to Circulate Your Energy
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Ms. A.AAuthor
Nafis Rahman This is great, exactly what I needed to read. Thank you!
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3d
Nafis Rahman
Basically the same as the comment above:
Another way to prepare the body for “zen sickness” (energy imbalances) is to practice yoga, which I recommend all able-bodied persons to practice. As John Tan wrote, “...your body is already prone to inflammation. And still further upset by imbalance. So once your radiance and clarity gets strong, don't intensify but instead balance it with practices like yoga to bring energy into circulation throughout your body. You can manage it with asanas to open various parts of your body. Now if you have wisdom you can realize by your own. If your wisdom and mindfulness isn't strong, you need a teacher to point it out to you. Excessive intake of caffeine, is the same of over intensifying vividness… ...Balance your body circulation. I have already try to prevent you from having issues by telling you to go into yoga few years ago.” (Comment about caffeine: caffeine has triggered a mini rerun of an energy imbalance/intensification episodes twice for Soh, so he is cutting down for now)
[25/3/19, 11:44:55 AM] Soh Wei Yu: My concentration at work is definitely affected.. lol
[25/3/19, 11:49:27 AM] John Tan: Affected by?
[25/3/19, 11:50:41 AM] Soh Wei Yu: I dunno.. the intense energetic presence maybe
[25/3/19, 11:50:52 AM] Soh Wei Yu: But I Guess I will get used to it after a while
[25/3/19, 11:52:39 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Actually I think it’s affecting my thought process lol.. nvm
[25/3/19, 11:55:40 AM] John Tan: No good
[25/3/19, 12:00:34 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Any suggestion
[25/3/19, 12:00:35 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Lol
[25/3/19, 12:00:40 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Maybe I need to meditate more
[25/3/19, 12:00:52 PM] John Tan: Don't do anything
[25/3/19, 12:00:57 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ok
[25/3/19, 12:01:06 PM] John Tan: Dont think of radiance
[25/3/19, 12:01:12 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ok
[25/3/19, 12:01:33 PM] John Tan: Breathe with your stomach
[25/3/19, 12:01:37 PM] John Tan: Abdominal
[25/3/19, 12:01:48 PM] John Tan: you must feel how you relax down
[25/3/19, 12:02:19 PM] John Tan: Ur energy clogging at the brow center is no good
[25/3/19, 12:02:38 PM] John Tan: Be rooted to earth element
[25/3/19, 12:02:42 PM] Soh Wei Yu: How you know, from my description?
[25/3/19, 12:02:47 PM] John Tan: Usual
[25/3/19, 12:02:51 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Where is brow center
[25/3/19, 12:03:07 PM] John Tan: In between your eye brow
[25/3/19, 12:03:11 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[25/3/19, 12:03:15 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Yesterday Angelo told me
[25/3/19, 12:03:32 PM] John Tan: Relax and b rooted to earth element
[25/3/19, 12:03:36 PM] Soh Wei Yu: That’s interesting. I’ve never thought to ask you about “subjective” moment to moment experiences like that. I can relate. Personally I trust my body’s intuition 100%. I’ll sit and meditate whenever I feel to. For a few minutes or several hours. I don’t impose external contexts on practice in the sense that I let the environment meditate me as feels harmonious. Take care my friend. This may or may not be helpful at all but I’ve done this and told people about it many times who have very intense energetic movements. That is the energy release is trying to move to ground. If you think in terms of physical matter (very densely packed energy) the earth is by far the largest ground available. So the energy wants to move toward ground.
[25/3/19, 12:03:44 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Adyashanti taught me this. It’s odd sounding but it works. Imagine you are looking at a beautiful horse in a pasture and the sun is setting behind it. You can just trace the light over its shoulders and back. It’s perfectly smooth. Now you run your hand slowly down the horses main and over its back feeling the smoothness and light as your hand runs over slowly. In the same ways you feel the energy moving slowly down from your head through your body and into the Earth. I have no idea but I’ve done it many times and it works for me when a ton of energy being released.
Also I tell people lay on the earth and invite the earth to regulate the energy in your body at the level of heart. May or may not be helpful but it’s worked for me and others.
Richele in particular gets very energetic releases in her body. She has gone through periods where she has trouble standing up even. Good luck with work.
[25/3/19, 12:04:34 PM] John Tan: Yes
[25/3/19, 12:05:12 PM] John Tan: Don't think of anything...relax and just b easy and root urself to earth element
[25/3/19, 12:05:35 PM] John Tan: Told you to b as light as feather already
[25/3/19, 12:05:37 PM] John Tan: Lol
[25/3/19, 12:05:41 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Lol
[25/3/19, 12:09:37 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ya it helps.. the energy on my head is loosening
[25/3/19, 12:09:43 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Now I know why got headache
[25/3/19, 12:10:17 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Lucky got you to tell me otherwise I end up like richard suffer for 2 years go hospital and get diagnose with mental illness
[25/3/19, 12:11:50 PM] John Tan: Don't do anything now
[25/3/19, 12:20:21 PM] Soh Wei Yu: I think I will avoid caffeine for now..
[25/3/19, 12:20:23 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic
[25/3/19, 1:07:44 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Rooting to the earth element and abdominal breathing is also quite blissful.. and takes off the tension from the intensity of sight and head
[25/3/19, 2:39:29 PM] Soh Wei Yu: My Brain fog is getting better now
[25/3/19, 2:45:00 PM] John Tan: That's good” - Angelo Gerangelo gave an advise to me on rooting to the earth element when I told him about my issues, which coincidentally happened to be similar to John Tan’s advise
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3d
Nafis Rahman
Exercise 19: Tonglen for Your Self
Begin by settling into a posture that is comfortable yet alert, and then follow the mindfulness stages of soothing breathing rhythm, grounding, resting, and breath support (exercise 6). If you do not have much time, then just engage with your soothing breathing rhythm (exercise 3).
Now imagine that you are stepping into and identifying with your compassionate self. Bring to mind each of the qualities of your compassionate self—wisdom, strength, warmth, and commitment—and imagine that these qualities are fully present within you. Remember to create a friendly facial expression and imagine you have a warm voice tone.
Imagine that directly in front of you is the ordinary part of you that is struggling, perhaps feeling lonely, fearful, misunderstood, angry, or troubled by physical illness or grief. As you look toward your ordinary self and become aware of the suffering you’ve been carrying, pay attention to the detail of your experience, almost as if you are watching a film of yourself going about your day. Let the pain and conflict of your ordinary self touch you and hold it with a warm and compassionate concern. Be curious and interested in what you are going through without judging or condemning it. If you notice any resistance to opening up to yourself in this way, just become aware of this resistance and hold it gently in your awareness.
Now consider that the suffering of the “ordinary you” takes the form of a dark cloud and with each in-breath, imagine that you breathe it in. As the cloud of suffering enters your being, imagine that it loosens the tight knot of self-contraction around your heart, revealing the wisdom and compassion at the center of your being. As you exhale, imagine that you freely give out understanding, joy, and kindness, in the form of light, to the suffering part of you. Continue this giving and receiving with each breath for as long as you like. If you find yourself going numb, blanking out, or not being able to connect, then make this the focus of your practice, breathing this in on the in-breath and breathing your release from this on the out-breath. However, always go gently and do not force yourself if it causes upset.
If you find it difficult to imagine a dark cloud, or if this feels too heavy or literal, then practice in a more feeling-oriented way. While rooted in your compassionate self, imagine being in contact with the pain of your ordinary self, and then, on the in-breath, focus on opening up to this pain and letting it touch your heart, drawing it toward you rather than pushing it away. Then imagine that as this pain touches your heart, it transforms—a bit like hot air being transformed into cool air by an air conditioner. So you are opening up on the in-breath, opening up on the out-breath, with no sense of anything getting stuck. There is no need to visualize too ardently—just set up the process and trust that the breathing does the work. What is important is the intention of drawing suffering toward you and breathing out release from suffering on the out-breath, and then trusting that this process runs by itself.
As you continue the practice, imagine that the ordinary part of you is gradually relieved of suffering and filled with well-being and joy. Each time you conclude, consider that the “ordinary you” is freed of some of the burden of its pain and distress and is more able to tolerate and work through what remains. Any pain you take in never stays there because it is always transformed into light or joy. Now let go of visualizing and just rest without any focus. If you notice any feelings of well-being or spaciousness, tune in to where you feel them in the body and allow yourself to appreciate and rest in these feelings. Then rest without any focusing on anything in particular, stretch, and get up.
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3dEdited
Ms. A.AAuthor
Nafis Rahman Wow, thank you Nafis, it's a lot of information for me all at once, I will read your replies properly tonight. I'm not versed in Buddhism and its terminology so need a bit of time. The compassionate breathing sounds beautiful. I do a similar process working with Self and parts (Internal Family Systems). Will experiment combining it with the breathing ❤
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Soh Wei YuAdmin
The comments above and suggestions are all good.
In addition to those glimpses of nondual above.. Do you have glimpses of the Simple Feeling of Being?
https://www.scribd.com/.../The-Simple-Feeling-of-Being...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCrWn_NueUg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=783Gb4KbzGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymvj01q44o0
https://youtu.be/BA8tDzK_kPI
The Simple Feeling of Being - Ken Wilber
SCRIBD.COM
The Simple Feeling of Being - Ken Wilber
The Simple Feeling of Being - Ken Wilber
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Ms. A.AAuthor
Soh Wei Yu Yes, it happens.
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3d
Soh Wei YuAdmin
Ms. A.A That's good. Do continue self-enquiry until the doubtless realization and unshakeable certainty -- http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../i-am...
I AM Experience/Glimpse/Recognition vs I AM Realization (Certainty of Being)
AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
I AM Experience/Glimpse/Recognition vs I AM Realization (Certainty of Being)
I AM Experience/Glimpse/Recognition vs I AM Realization (Certainty of Being)
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Soh Wei YuAdmin
Practice in a gentle and relaxed way and don't chase after experiences. The natural state is actually a soft gentle and light glow of all-pervasive non-dual and empty luminosity, as light as a feather and yet immense as the universe, but not like a tense, overfocused, solid, heavy, strong, dense, state... and the natural state is empty, illusory, D.O., like reflection, vivid presence-absence. Then the non-dual luminosity is vivid but unfabricated, not the slightest effort or fabrication present. And there is no leaving traces or landing or attempting to experience more vividly until a state of overfocusing. If you attempt to feel and experience more and more until a state of overfocusing, it will feel like your nervous system is brought to the edge of breaking and it will trigger energy imbalances.
It will only be really natural and effortless after insight into anatta and emptiness. Before that just practice in a relaxed way, neither too tight nor too loose, don't chase after experiences but take steps in contemplation to give rise to the correct realizations. The right experiences will follow on its own without the slightest need for fabrication, effort or contrivance, it will be natural, effortless, uncontrived, spontaneously manifesting, spontaneous present and become a state without entry or exit.
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3dEdited
Ms. A.AAuthor
Soh Wei Yu Beautifully said, resonates very much.
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Soh Wei YuAdmin
If energy imbalances get out of hand, you need to see doctor. Or even before it gets out of hand actually the traditional medicines are good and important. Chinese / Tibetan doctors for gradual tuning of one's energy system, important. Western doctors and medicines for fast relief of symptoms if necessary [but does not treat underlying energy issues like Chinese / Tibetan ones, so you can do both if necessary].
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3dEdited
Ms. A.AAuthor
Soh Wei Yu Thank you Soh. The energy imbalances are only there if I try to do self-inquiry at the moment (and during the retreat with Angelo). I am familiar with TCM and had acupuncture treatments in the past, also herbs. In fact about 10 years ago during an acupuncture treatment I shifted into an experiences of oneness with no emotional rebound afterwards.. I guess the body was balancing itself with the needles already. Great suggestions.
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3d
Soh Wei YuAdmin
See this thread on traditional and western medicines: https://www.facebook.com/groups/AwakeningToReality/posts/7287045361336831/?__cft__[0]=AZWsn_8gszqHYzg8edqR02ggz2Aon1O4SEl7-5McLIIgni4WedH2vio2j3414_TjTOvs8-AuwmtOErlflt4EoKMTy4SSOlu0CP8-PmiL8nePQZZ3… See more
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3dEdited
Sarah Luna
Thanks for sharing your story.
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3d
Zen Javi
you might watch rupert spira on youtube. he explains non dual awareness, becoming everything. BUt this facebook group and the awakening website is really as good as it gets. YOu can always try a new teacher out and get yourself a conversation online...someone that resonates with you.
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Tyler Jones
Lol, Spira is who I was picturing when she described the soft spoken white man with flowers next to him up on a podium.
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3d
Ms. A.AAuthor
Zen Javi Thanks Zavi 🙂 I love Angelo's pointings, it just everything feels a bit too much at the moment. I have had quite a bit of trauma and it's getting triggered beyond my usual capacity to be able to contain it. I'm putting out fires at the moment.
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2d
Lee Sanderson
Have you thought about practicing something more gentle and related to shadow work?
Something along the lines of Michael Singer, The Sedona Method or Let It Go by David Hawkins.
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1d
Ms. A.AAuthor
Lee SandersonLove those suggestions, thank you
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10h
Soh Wei YuAdmin
Ms. A.A yeah good suggestion there. Also maybe this might help, I like this author:
https://www.amazon.com/Trauma-Unbound-Body-Fundamental-Consciousness/dp/1683641833
Trauma and the Unbound Body: The Healing Power of Fundamental Consciousness
AMAZON.COM.AU
Trauma and the Unbound Body: The Healing Power of Fundamental Consciousness
Trauma and the Unbound Body: The Healing Power of Fundamental Consciousness
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