Someone recently revealed to me the identity of the person responsible for creating those misleading videos.

Here was my response:

I have never gotten the impression that Mr. X possessed genuine insight or understanding. Yes, Angelo has realized anatta, but as I mentioned earlier, Ms S certainly has not. Mr E had glimpses in the past but not realisation, though I’m uncertain about his current state.

Be cautious about believing anyone who talks about "no self." Many are just talking about dry non doership, impersonality, nondual experiences, etc. As I've stated before, 99% of those who speak about the experience or insight of "no self" are far from the anatta of AtR or the anatta realization in Buddhadharma.

They haven’t even realized the I AM, let alone attained a genuine realization of anatta. There is a lot of misinformation online, the internet is full of misleading and delusional claims not just on YouTube but also on platforms like Reddit. Even in this group, it happens from time to time that some people openly present themselves as realised when they are essentially just deluding themselves. In the past I just let it slip, but now we have a new rule and any claims will never go unchallenged.

As Krodha/Kyle Dixon once said:

“The streamentry sub is full of people who overvalue their own meditation insights and experiences. Most claiming to be stream entrants who are not.”

“There are probably no srotapannas there. From reading that sub over a decade it is essentially just full of people deluding themselves.

Some nice meditation experiences, sure. But actual stream entrants? Definitely not.”

"It is quite rare to attain stream entry, I’ve been involved with dharma for over a decade and can count those who are tried and true stream entrants on one hand. That said, contemplate the Bahiya and Kalakarama suttas and cultivate the first dhyāna."

----------------------

Mr Z said: "He has quoted Rob Burbea several times "We’re not trying to destroy the sense of self, where trying to understand something about it”. He claims Angelo and others have taken it a step too far."

Soh replied:

Rob Burbea is not correct here. Buddhism does destroy the sense of self, but only at an advanced phase of one's practice.

Destroying the sense of self is part and parcel of overcoming the third and eighth fetters of Buddha’s teachings (I am not speaking here of Kevin Shanilec’s version which I consider to be not exactly the same as  Buddha's definitions but that's another story).

However the way the fetters are destroyed is not through forcing it out. That cannot be done.

As John Tan said: 

"...it seems that lots of effort need to be put in -- which is really not the case. The entire practice turns out to an undoing process. It is a process of gradually understanding the workings of our nature that is from beginning liberated but clouded by this sense of ‘self’ that is always trying to preserve, protect and ever attached. The entire sense of self is a ‘doing’. Whatever we do, positive or negative, is still doing. Ultimately there is not-even a letting go or let be, as there is already continuous dissolving and arising and this ever dissolving and arising turns out to be self-liberating. Without this ‘self’ or ‘Self’, there is no ‘doing’, there is only spontaneous arising. "

~ Thusness (source: Non-dual and karmic patterns)

"...When one is unable to see the truth of our nature, all letting go is nothing more than another form of holding in disguise. Therefore without the 'insight', there is no releasing.... it is a gradual process of deeper seeing. when it is seen, the letting go is natural. You cannot force yourself into giving up the self... purification to me is always these insights... non-dual and emptiness nature...."

~ Thusness

- https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2009/09/realization-and-experience-and-non-dual.html

So if that is what Rob Burbea meant, then he is correct. However, if he meant that the sense of self will forever be around, then it is clearly wrong, and he is clearly at odds with the Buddhist scriptures from Theravada to Mahayana and Vajrayana. Sense of self will indeed vanish without a trace in true liberation. Also see: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2022/07/buddhahood-end-of-all-emotionalmental.html

Buddha or arahants will still be able to respond to someone calling his name, but it does not mean he/she has a sense of self.

- https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/jootla/wheel414.html?fbclid=IwY2xjawFNGVgBHTq9uH1IuxwgiDtblDUbra_E7HnGM2DmoHhF_XIBOtuwE2EnrfDEXjkmhQ

And here's another better translation:

SN 1.25

Question: When a mendicant is perfected, proficient, with defilements ended, bearing the final body: would they say, ‘I speak’, or even ‘they speak to me’?”

The Buddha replied: “When a mendicant is perfected, proficient, with defilements ended, bearing the final body: they would say, ‘I speak’, and also ‘they speak to me’. Skillful, understanding the world’s conventions, they’d use these terms as no more than expressions.”

Question: “When a mendicant is perfected, proficient, with defilements ended, bearing the final body: is such a mendicant drawing close to conceit if they’d say, ‘I speak’, or even ‘they speak to me’?”

The Buddha replied: “Someone who has given up conceit has no ties, the ties of conceit are all dissipated. Though that intelligent person has transcended substantial reality, they’d still say, ‘I speak’, and also ‘they speak to me’. Skillful, understanding the world’s conventions, they’d use these terms as no more than expressions.”

Lastly, another sharing of an excerpt of Buddha's discourse in MN 140:

29. “So it was with reference to this that it was said: ‘One should not neglect wisdom, should preserve truth, should cultivate relinquishment, and should train for peace.’

30. “‘The tides of conceiving do not sweep over one who stands upon these [foundations], and when the tides of conceiving no longer sweep over him he is called a sage at peace.’ So it was said. And with reference to what was this said?

31. “Bhikkhu, ‘I am’ is a conceiving; ‘I am this’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall not be’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be possessed of form’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be formless’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be percipient’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be non-percipient’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be neither-percipient-nor-non-percipient’ is a conceiving. Conceiving is a disease, conceiving is a tumour, conceiving is a dart. By overcoming all conceivings, bhikkhu, one is called a sage at peace. And the sage at peace is not born, does not age, does not die; he is not shaken and is not agitated. For there is nothing present in him by which he might be born. Not being born, how could he age? Not ageing, how could he die? Not dying, how could he be shaken? Not being shaken, why should he be agitated?

32. “So it was with reference to this that it was said: ‘The tides of conceiving do not sweep over one who stands upon these [foundations], and when the tides of conceiving no longer sweep over him he is called a sage at peace.’ Bhikkhu, bear in mind this brief exposition of the six elements.”

----

He said: "[he] has called out you and Angelo several times as preaching an unhealthy, inhumane form of no-self that does not represent the middle way"

Soh replied: 

He does not understand the approach and impact of insight nor the anatta insight. Depression and shadows can be released through genuine insight into anatta and emptiness but he does not have these insights at all.

See https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2021/03/pam-tans-anatta-realisation-and-purging.html

Our admin Tommy said, “These people should speak to me: Former opiate addicted, chain smoking, SSRI-filled, delusional mess. If I'm deluding myself and dissociating then my ability to fabricate experience must be absolutely amazing. 🤣🤣🤣”

Related article: Good book on healing trauma and nondual realization

Also see:
What is Nirvana?
Great Resource of Buddha's Teachings
The Deathless in Buddhadharma?
The Meaning of Nirvana

Early Buddhism's Model of Awakening

The Mahayana Model of Awakening
Buddhahood: The End of All Emotional/Mental Afflictions and Knowledge Obscurations

 


One of the most top-voted threads on Reddit's streamentry subreddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/comments/igored/insight_buddhism_a_reconsideration_of_the_meaning/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf%20

[9:07 PM, 8/27/2020] John Tan: Yes pretty much agree with what he said.
[9:40 PM, 8/27/2020] John Tan: But the same insight of anatta must be applied to object, characteristics, cause and effect, production and cessation...which is a more slippery issue.  Nevertheless, experientially seeing through self/Self is still most crucial.

John TanFriday, January 23, 2015 at 6:13pm UTC+08

u cannot choose and pick what u like about liberation and enlightenment. Saying one has actualized anatta and uprooted self and attained arahatship is not what u see ppl declaring here and there. I have told u many times what [these people] realized is only at most stream entry. U r talking about liberation and freedom from cyclical existence and therefore u r referring to arahatship.

......

[9:59 am, 19/04/2022] John Tan: Otherwise many ppl might missed all these good articles

[9:59 am, 19/04/2022] John Tan: And its really difficult to search through the whole blog other than u

[10:00 am, 19/04/2022] John Tan: Nafis is another one that probably went through the whole blog... Lol

Soh: yeah im surprise he is becoming like me.. many of the posts he pasted was what i wanted to pasted but lazy

lol

….

Update, 2024:

I recently wrote on reddit:

What Krodha said in this thread is right: "It is quite rare to attain stream entry, I’ve been involved with dharma for over a decade and can count those who are tried and true stream entrants on one hand. That said, contemplate the Bahiya and Kalakarama suttas and cultivate the first dhyāna."

I would add that many people have misunderstood what stream entry is. Maybe 99% on reddit. The only thread on the streamentry subreddit that correctly presents stream entry can be found in https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/comments/igored/insight_buddhism_a_reconsideration_of_the_meaning/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf%20 , it is a good read and highly recommended reading.

——

Glad you liked it. If that interests you, I think this should interest you too. On nondual awareness and its nature and the subtleties of insight:

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-

experience.html

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2007/03/mistaken-reality-of-amness.html

🙏 :) p.s. I'm Soh, and Thusness (John Tan) is my mentor... I've been through similar stages in my journey

——

Self-view is well defined, for example, as I quoted in my article:

“The contemplation of neti neti, or dissociation, the separation of the witness from the witnessed, Self from not-self and so on, is done to 'support' a position of a true Self. So with regards to the phenomenal world of everchanging things, I reject as not me and mine, for I am the ultimate Witness that is perceiving all these.

This is the false View no. 4 described in Sabbasava Sutta: "...As he attends inappropriately in this way, one of six kinds of view arises in him: The view I have a self arises in him as true & established, or the view I have no self... or the view It is precisely by means of self that I perceive self... or the view It is precisely by means of self that I perceive not-self... or the view It is precisely by means of not-self that I perceive self arises in him as true & established, or else he has a view like this: This very self of mine — the knower that is sensitive here & there to the ripening of good & bad actions — is the self of mine that is constant, everlasting, eternal, not subject to change, and will stay just as it is for eternity. This is called a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a writhing of views, a fetter of views. Bound by a fetter of views, the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person is not freed from birth, aging, & death, from sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. He is not freed, I tell you, from suffering & stress." - the commentary of 'Middle Length Discourses' book explains, "of these six views, the first two represent the simple antinomy of eternalism and annihilationism; the view that ‘no self exists for me’ is not the non-self doctrine of the Buddha, but the materialist view that identifies the individual with the body and thus holds that there is no personal continuity beyond death. The next three views may be understood to arise out of the philosophically more sophisticated observation that experience has a built-in reflexive structure that allows for self-consciousness, the capacity of the mind to become cognizant of itself, its contents, and the body with which it is inter-connected. Engaged in a search for his 'true nature,' the untaught ordinary person will identify self either with both aspects of the experience (view 3), or with the observer alone (view 4), or with the observed alone (view 5). The last  view is a full-blown version of eternalism in which all reservations have been discarded."”

• ⁠https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2011/10/anatta-not-self-or-no-self_1.html

The insight and realisation of anatman puts an end to all views of self.

——

Since self view is well defined by Buddha in several suttas, that is a very clear indication of when stream entry occurs. Most people however misunderstand that point and have a watered down version of “ending self view”.

So yes what you said is right it is not arbitrary

On a related note, i wrote an article about the different degrees of no self. Only the true anatman insight can end self view, not mere non doership, impersonality or even nondual: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2020/04/different-degress-of-no-self-non.html

….

A crucial criteria in Buddha's teachings on stream entry is the ending of self-view. This ending of self-view marks the attainment of stream entry.

Krodha/Kyle Dixon explained well what that entails: https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/15m6m36/explain_like_im_five_what_is_selfview_how_to/

Note by Soh: For the full chapter and article by Geoff/Jnana which is very highly recommended, "required reading", please read in full: Great Resource of Buddha's Teachings

Update, 2022:

Someone wrote:

>the first five looks fairly easy, even somebody trained in Adaita Vendanta could do most of them

Soh:

Actually what triggers stream entry would be a direct experiential realization of anatman and conditionality. This is different from the realization of atman-brahman in Hinduism or Advaita Vedanta.

Anatman could be summarised as the realization that in truth, always already, in seeing, there is just the seen, no seer, in hearing, there is just sound, no hearer, and so on. Read Bahiya Sutta and Kalaka Sutta for example. Also check out the chapters on selflessness and cessation in this well compiled PDF: https://app.box.com/s/nxby5606lbaei9oudiz6xsyrdasacqph

Also, you should read this well written article explaining what stream entry is, what the realization entails, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/comments/igored/insight_buddhism_a_reconsideration_of_the_meaning/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf%20

When the direct realization of anatman manifests and you attain stream entry, you instantly cut off the first three fetters all at once. You will no longer have skeptical doubt about the Buddhadharma because now you have direct experiential realization of it and have ascertained the Buddha's words to be true.

Edit and update on my first point: When you experience impersonality and even nondual even in Advaita Vedanta, it is certainly not the overcoming of self view of the first fetter. There can still be the view of an unchanging self or awareness like vedanta. It is very clear by reading all the suttas that overcoming of self view covers even eternal witness and substantialist nondual views, so impersonality and nondual does not reach the elimination of self view that a stream enterer has attained.

I wrote an article before with citations from Buddha on how all these self views are refuted, including an eternal witness or an unchanging infinite consciousness as self and so on http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2011/10/anatta-not-self-or-no-self_1.html — stream entry realization covers the dissolution of all these subtle views of self and inherent existence.