Showing posts with label View and Path. Show all posts
Showing posts with label View and Path. Show all posts

 11 Shared by Kyle Dixon

Jean-Luc Achard on the Role and Importance of Study and Conceptual Understanding in one’s Relationship with the Dzogchen Teachings

There is never enough reading. All the main masters of the past and recent times that one venerates from Longchenpa to Jigme Lingpa, from Dru Gyelwa to Kundrol Rinpoche, from Khyentse Wangpo to Shardza, from Khenpo Gangshar to Sakya Tridzin, from HH the Dalai Lama to Yongdzin Rinpoche (too many names to list), all of them have spent a gazillion sessions of their practice in formal study. I don't think this has caused them any obscurations. I don't buy a single minute the legends of brainless yogis reaching Rainbow Body as a paradigm to follow for westerners without a proper buddhist/bon complete education. The Dharma is one of the three Jewels, it does not cause obscurations. I would add to this that ignorance comes from not recognizing one's state but it is maintained, developed and intensified by the absence of study. It is only among lay people in the West that there is this fancy that one will reach anywhere on the path of Dharma while despising texts and teachings.

There are other forums where people are proud of their ignorance. I am not. I am ashamed of it when I compare it to the knowledge of my masters. I try every single day to spend my time 50/50 in between practice and study. Study never let me down. I can tell you, for having met people who reject study in the past 35 years, that not a single of them has a clue about what Rigpa is. You can spend a gazillion years on your cushion, if the correct understanding is not there, you simply waste your time. You never waste your time reading the teachings the masters so kindly composed for the past 2,000 years. So reading texts after texts is a correct way to chase ignorance away. I don't think anybody here claims to be a great vidyadhara. However, I have met countless people with a dramatically superficial "knowledge" of the teachings who claim to be advanced on the path and who actually ignore the stages of that path. Lopon [Tenzin Namdak] said this once:

"I prefer someone who has clearly understood the state of Dzogchen, even intellectually, as opposed to a brainless yogi able to stand upside-down on the tip of a grass with one single finger. I know which of the two can have a chance at recognizing the state in the Bardo."

Throwing the books [marginalizing study] is throwing one of the 3 Jewels in the river. This is a totally nihilistic approach which has nothing whatsoever to do with Dzogchen. When Shakyamuni was there, we were in a period associated with his Body (i.e. the Buddha was there physically), then he passed away and we were still more or less in a period associated with his Body through those who had met him personally and received his teachings. Then when these died, we entered a period associated with his Speech only, because that was all was left of him: his teachings transmitted as best as masters could do at the time. Then when things started to be written down, we entered a period associated with his Mind, i.e. a period where all that was left of him was what he had taught according to his realization and this was now in written form for us. We should consider ourselves as lucky to even have access to that because these are teachings of an enlightened being, not an ordinary one, not nihilism. And Shakyamuni’s basic message beside the 4 Noble Truths is: stay away from the two extremes, nihilism and eternalism. Enter the middle Path. Dzogchen is in perfect accord with this view.

Again, nobody said that what we read IS rigpa. This is stupid to even think of it. However, words are pointers, they are indicators of a deeper meaning and they have symbolic semantic fields which help understand a key-idea of Dzogchen in the proper terms of Dzogchen. And again, we were not, at least I was not, discussing how to enter Rigpa but what Rigpa is. Contrary to what you think, Rigpa can be enunciated in words. This is what all the Tantras of Dzogchen do. It is not because the state is beyond words and speech that speech and words cannot convey a deeper meaning at a subtler level than they are outwardly. Denying this is denying the function of the Sambhogakaya in us.

To make things clear for the forum — this may be my mistake because I haven't been very active on it in the past months: we believe in study and practice. We don't welcome opinions negating the value of study to promote a so-called practice which may be flawed because of a lack of understanding (resulting from an absence of study). This is in particular true with the dramatic proliferations that are affecting so many Nyingma students in the West about Rigpa. Understanding Rigpa is simpler than they think but these people are fantasizing about a magical state, etc. Rigpa is knowledge. It is not difficult to experience it.

This is important because, when one says Rigpa is beyond consciousness and thoughts, some people identify it with non-discursiveness. This is wrong: Rigpa can be with or without thoughts. But when it is with thoughts, these are only altruistic ones that one uses for the "activities of the wise" (mkhas pa'i bya ba), namely explanations, debates and compositions. Now, to enter these activities and take part in the Dharma, one needs the selfless knoweldge of the Buddha which is acquired through studies, otherwise one risks to spread one's own deluded "dharma" which will certainly be a cause to lower rebirths. This is where canonicity enters the game: it is very important if one intends to teach that the teachings are within the confines of canonicity. There have for instance been heterodox Dzogchen systems in the past in Tibet, propounded by unrealized masters such as the Dzogchen De'uma system. I think this is one of the main reasons so few westerners are actually authorized to teach from texts, but are rather authorized to discourse a little on Dzogchen, as introductory lectures.

Traditionally, Lamas would train you in both study and practice because they both enrich each other. Studies help you understand the subtleties of your mind, and practice helps you understand what’s written in texts by enlightened masters, an understanding which in turn helps you realizing what “occurs” or not in your contemplation, and so on endlessly.

If i have something personal to say here it would be to repeat (it has become my personal opinion since years, so i share this one as a treasure for me) what Lopon [Tenzin Namdak] Rinpoche told me:

"Study and practice. Practice and Study. You studies will clear out what you experience in practice. Your experience in practice will make you understand the teachings of the Buddhas that you read. Then what you read will totally clarify what you meditate on." It's the Wheel of Wisdom. All is there.

 

Geovani Geo wrote:

Causes and effects do apply to the eddies in the flow. Cultivating equipoise is to imerse wholly into the stream. All eddies are water. No need to go back into thoroughly analyzing eddies and the flow. Once the insight has been introduced, the slightest intent is enough. Not even that.

 

John Tan wrote:

Geovani Geo

, I think it is still necessary. Even after anatta insight and experience, the line of reasoning of dependent origination and emptiness need not be clear.

 

It is not easy for the mind to realize how negative emotions and attachments are related to thoughts of production, origination and existence -- "dualistic and inherent" view; but if we keep refining and get used to the line of reasoning, we will be able to release and relief the mind from all these notions. That said the process of freeing is a very gradual and slow process unlike the sudden flash of insights as in the case of koan, self enquiry of I AM or anatta.

 

For firm progress, integration of these experiences, insights and the right view is needed -- how anatta insight and experience are related to the seeing through of the mental construct and convention of "self/Self" and extending such realization to all phenomena to the eventual freedom of the mind from all conceptualities.

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Nice video. View, experience, realization. Anatta, no mirror.




[7:41 PM, 6/19/2020] John Tan: Lol he speaks of the view, experience, realization
[8:01 PM, 6/19/2020] John Tan: Seems like he enjoys the one hand clapping koan. There is no mirror.
[8:02 PM, 6/19/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Yeah..



note: this does not necessarily correspond to the traditional buddhist full enlightenment of Buddhahood. Check out AtR guide chapter
"Traditional Buddhist Attainments: Arahantship and Buddhahood"  623
From a conversation in Awakening to Reality group a year ago:

 

 

-       Hale Oh

“Hale OHerren

Hale OHerren I have a couple of classes in a row here where I have to pay attention lol... will explain in a few hours

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Hale OHerren

Hale OHerren The diagram is a progress seeing of our relationship to the world. "a" is not "a", therefore "a" is "a" applied out.

 

The stick figure is a person, the small boxes are any/all dharmas, the arrows and lines show relationship, the big box in #3 is a representation of the whole world/universe, the huge box in #4 is all space time.

 

#1 is how most people see. They are outsiders looking in.

 

#2 is a beginning to see an interrelationship between you and the world. Without me, the flower would not be there, with the flower, I would not be here. This world makes me, and I make this world. The arrows point back and forth to show a mutual relationship.

 

#3 brings in a larger context, its seeing the wholeness of this moment. Not only am I and the world co created, but each and everything exists together like a web. Everything moving together in harmony, nothing separate… Not only #2 but also a more whole picture of the present moment. This whole moment is one seamless happening. Each piece, including you, is integral to the whole, and the whole is integral to each piece. A car (a) is nothing without a road to drive on, a person to drive, an earth etc (not a). But, this is looked at and seen in the moment and felt.

 

#4 is taking #3 and applying time. Each point is the "crux" or "fulcrum" of space time. Everything "hinges" so to speak on the bell ringing. Each "a" is empty (not a) because it only exists in context with all space time. Therefore, "a" is just "a" haha, which is all things all places all times. And all that is just "a". It's seeing the wholeness of each and every thing, indra's net real time. But this is just intellectual here, this is something that you feel.

 

A lot of this is about seeing context and relationship imo. The outline has good advice for incorporating view and particular practices to see this. The diamond sutra is also a good source for contemplation if interested. This link was particularly helpful for a friend of mine...

 

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c33e/bb82836e30c37d5439af2a20042f05affcc2.pdf

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Hale OHerren

Hale OHerren Checking out Huayan, Li and Shi, interpenetration and mutual containment and non obstruction might be interesting for view. Also, quite funnily, their fourfold dharmadhatu is very similar, I feel, to the drawing. A lot of this draws from flower garland sutra.

 

This is interesting too..

 

https://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/Miscellaneous/Treatise_on_Golden_Lion.html

thezensite:Fazang's Treatise on the Golden Lion

thezensite.com

thezensite:Fazang's Treatise on…

thezensite:Fazang's Treatise on the Golden Lion

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Hale OHerren

Hale OHerren But all of the words can be a source of confusion. Better to see and feel haha.

 

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Hale OHerren

Hale OHerren Oh and ted biringers book called “zen cosmology”

 

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André A. Pais

André A. Pais Hale, from the Golden Lion link. It's interesting...

 

6. To discuss the five doctrines. The first: although the lion is a dharma produced through dependent-arising, it undergoes generation and destruction in each and every moment. [Since nothing in the phenomenal world endures,] no form of the lion can ever be found. This is called the teaching for the ignorant Śrāvakas [Hīnayāna].

 

The second: all things, being the product of dependent-arising, are devoid of Selfhood [Svabhāva], and in the final analysis, are nothing but Emptiness. This is called the preliminary teaching of Mahāyāna.

 

The third: although all things are Emptiness through and through, this does not impede the vivid appearance of the Māyā/becoming. All that which is of dependent-arising is fictitiously existent [and therefore it is truly void.] This co-existence of both being and non-being is called the final teaching of Mahāyāna.

 

The fourth: inasmuch as these two characters [that of Emptiness and that of form] mutually annul each other, they are both abolished. Here, no imaginings or false presuppositions exist; neither the concept of Emptiness nor the idea of existence retains any influence. [This is the sphere in which] the ideas of both being and non-being vanish. It is a realm that names and speech cannot reach. Here the mind rests without any attachment. This is called the instantaneous teaching of Mahāyāna.

 

The fifth: when all false feelings and wrong ideas are eliminated, and the true substance is revealed, everything becomes merged into one great mass. Great functions then arise in abundance, and whatever arises is absolutely true. The myriad manifestations, despite their variety, interpenetrate without confusion or disarray. The all is the one, for both are empty in substance. The one is the all, for cause and effect clearly manifest themselves [without fail]. In their power and functions [the one and the all] embrace each other. They spread out and roll up in utter freedom. This is called the Round Doctrine of the One Vehicle.

 

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Hale OHerren

Hale OHerren André, and all the rest of what he has to say haha. Fazang is on to something...

 

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Hale OHerren

Hale OHerren

🌈🌈🌈

 

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André A. Pais

André A. Pais Hale Oh had never read anything from this sect... 😊

 

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Hale OHerren

Hale OHerren "The name Flower Garland is meant to suggest the crowning glory of a Buddha's profound understanding of ultimate reality."

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André A. Pais

André A. Pais Hale Oh I'm reading the article on the diamond sutra. I enjoyed the Golden Lion, although it can lend itself to substantialist readings. Must re-read it.

 

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Hale OHerren

Hale OHerren Ya gotta read everything with a grain of salt. I like looking bigger picture, especially if it's a translation.

 

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John Tan André, for the metta question it is not for altruistic reasons but rather to further open up oneself into total exertion.

Post anatta, one can access to the state of no mind easily and this state of no mind is "key" to opening up new dimension of the mind where experience turn maha, immense and great.

If possible, it is advisable to integrate a practice, be it yoga, pranayama or qi gong or vipassana or chanting where u can focus ur attention into an oceanic state of no-mind asif everything in the 10 directions and 3 times are all into a single action.

Don't worry too much whether is it realistic, just don't place any limitation in the expansion in this practice. Just open up and connect as is presented in Hale's badly drawn diagram.
😂

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André A. Pais John Tan tks for your explanation. Why the need to integrate it with another practice, like chanting? And what kind of chanting? But do you mean something more physical?

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Hale OHerren André A. Pais I like drumming and chanting. Makes sense that some of the services at eihei-ji go on for over 2 hours.

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John Tan André, choosing a practice is important for stability much like shamatha so that one can better integrate the body-mind into a stable state of evenness over a quality period of time. The state no mind from anatta in daily activity is a mini scale of the oceanic opening unless one has overcome our dualistic and inherent karmic tendencies sufficiently.

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Soh Wei Yu Any kind of chanting... there are also practices in dzogchen called singing song of vajra. But it depends on what lineage, tradition, practices, chants, all are good if you actualize total exertion.

I wrote about some sutra chanting in Korean leading to total exertion in http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../what-is-total...

Even chanting 'A' can be Maha total exertion.

https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../no-yellow...

Zen Master Bernie Glassman:

Some people say it's not necessary to read the Heart Sutra in its English translation, that the essence of this Wisdom literature can be achieved by just chanting it in the original Sanskrit. Before I review the meaning of the title, let me say that when you truly just chant the Heart Sutra, all of it is contained in the act of just chanting. When we chant in such a way that nothing else is happening, that all our concentration, all our mental and physical energies are condensed into just being the sound A (the first syllable of the original text, from "Avalokitesvara"), that is all that exists. Just A! Just the elimination of any trace of separation between subject and object, which is nothing but our zazen itself. If we put all our energy into just chanting in this manner, there is no separation, and that state of no separation is the state of sunyata, or "emptiness," or what I also call not-knowing. That is the state of 100 percent action; everything is fully concentrated in this very moment. This is the heart of our practice, to be totally in this moment, moment after moment. It doesn't matter what words are being chanted; when you are totally A, it is not even A anymore; it is the whole universe, it is everything.

 

awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com

What is Total Exertion?

What is Total Exertion?

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Soh Wei Yu Personally I focus more on breathing meditation and yoga but it depends on individual

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Hale OHerren Chant and drum like this guy haha. I imagine he knows whats up... There is this shamanic feel to it. This power of creation and connection. Will write more thoughts in a bit...

 

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John Tan Yes. Breathing exercise is a good practice. Breathe into no-mind, just the inhalation and exhalation. Allow the whole body to fully engaged in the breath - the nose, the lung, the abdominal, the intestine are all fully participating in the breath. Extend beyond the boundary of the body into the air, the trees, the plants, the universe. See whether u can get all the masters of the 3 times to participate together into this moment of breathing (hale's diagram).😝

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Peter Wang Soh Wei Yu Ah so that's what total exertion is. It's the flow state or "being in the zone". To be one with the very activity that's being done.

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Hale OHerren I was lucky enough to visit Eiheiji and go to one of their morning services. This powerful ritual. They have these forever resonating bells, this massive super deep drum that keeps the beat. Those sounds fully captures your whole body. Then the chanting, if you use your whole body, your whole body vibrates with your voice. Your voice harmonizes with all the other voices. Total transcendence. Plus, with the fact that they have been chanting these old chants like that every morning for the past 700+ years...

And then add in the fact that you do it every morning; there's this cyclical inclusion/reminder/feeling that brings in all time. Like born here in ringing this bell is every time you've rung the bell before and, everyone who rang the bell before you, all the dharma practice that fostered bell ringing, all the masters of the past, the whole universe. It's a powerful expression of literally all space and time. And, flowing out the other direction, your bell ringing echoes out into eternity. Your ringing is turned by the wheel of the dharma and reciprocally, your ringing turns the wheel of the dharma.

Heart Sutra at Sojji (included so you can see these ancient, dark & powerful visuals... the robes, the colors, the decorations the lighting etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De15EaR_irk&t=147s

Heart Sutra at Eiheiji starts at 6:00ish (no video)... If you listen, listen with something that can play bass to hear/feel the drum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnPMZW63uPw

 

youtube.com

Soto Zen - Heart Sutra /…

Soto Zen - Heart Sutra / 曹洞宗大本山總持寺 - 般若波羅蜜多心經

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John Tan Peter, it is not exactly a flow state.

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Peter Wang oh lol

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John Tan Peter, it may appear to be and sound so and many translate it that way but it is not.

Like what Hale has described, it is a very deep feeling of being "connected". I think Hale described very well "this connection".

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Hale OHerren Thanks John, I'll write some more stuff once I get out of this last class.

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Tyler Jones André A. Pais, when this group first became active again I asked if you were aware of John's advice on meditation post anatta and you said no. What he shared here is what I was referring to.

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