[19/5/20, 1:08:25 AM] John Tan: The purpose is actually to trigger about bahiya sutta
[19/5/20, 1:08:57 AM] John Tan: Unfortunately the Chinese sutta may not be able to translate the bahiya sutta properly
[19/5/20, 1:09:38 AM] John Tan: Many translate in the seen just the seen as a form of total concentration into a state of no mind.
[19/5/20, 1:09:55 AM] John Tan: Like vipassana into no mind
[19/5/20, 1:12:52 AM] John Tan: Therefore bahiya sutta can be seen from the perspective of 修 (practice) or can be understood from the perspective of 悟 (realization)。all these depends on the calibre of the person.
[19/5/20, 1:13:51 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Bahiya Sutta in the new Chinese translation of the ‘Small Boat Great Mountain’ by Ajahn Amaro https://cd1.amaravati.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/13/%E5%B0%8F%E8%88%B9%E8%88%87%E5%A4%A7%E5%B1%B1_20161111.pdf
佛說:在所見中,只有所見。在所聞中,只有所聞。在所感中,只有所感。在所知中,只有所知。如此會看到,的確無物在此1;婆醯迦,該如此修習。婆醯迦,你應該依此:在所見中,只有所見。在所聞中,只有所聞。在所感中,只有所感。在所知中,只有所知。如此你會看到,的確無物在這裡;如此,的確無物。什麼都沒有時,您將看到,你不在此處,不在彼處,也不在兩者之間。此即苦的止息2。(自說經1.10)
....
(In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.
Since, Bahiya, there is for you
in the seen, only the seen,
in the heard, only the heard,
in the sensed, only the sensed,
in the cognized, only the cognized,
and you see that there is no thing here,
you will therefore see that
indeed there is no thing there.
As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
betwixt the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.” (ud. 1.10)
- http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2008/01/ajahn-amaro-on-non-duality-and.html )
[19/5/20, 1:14:01 AM] Soh Wei Yu: oic..
[19/5/20, 1:15:14 AM] John Tan: But it should be understood from the perspective of 悟 (realization)。y?
[19/5/20, 1:18:52 AM] Soh Wei Yu: realization of anatta as dharma seal is different from a state of no mind
[19/5/20, 1:19:36 AM] John Tan: No from the text, y should it be viewed from the perspective of 悟 (realization)?
[19/5/20, 1:20:32 AM] Soh Wei Yu: In seeing, always only the seen, or seeing is none other than seen. No you. This is truth, not training into a state of only the seen
[19/5/20, 1:20:39 AM] John Tan: 如此你會看到,的確無物在這裡;如此,的確無物。什麼都沒有時,您將看到,你不在此處,不在彼處,也不在兩者之間。此即苦的止息2。(自說經1.10)
....
(As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
betwixt the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.” (ud. 1.10)
- http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2008/01/ajahn-amaro-on-non-duality-and.html )
[19/5/20, 1:21:11 AM] John Tan: It says therefore u should see this truth.
[19/5/20, 1:21:22 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
[19/5/20, 1:21:57 AM] John Tan: Therefore it is for 悟 (realization)
[19/5/20, 1:23:01 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[19/5/20, 1:23:55 AM] John Tan: This is the purpose of the second and third line
[19/5/20, 1:24:15 AM] John Tan: 深入观行, 婆酰迦经。
了悟经旨, 直指无心。
无执能所, 忘却身心。
(Deeply contemplating, Bahiya Sutta.
Realizing the essence of the sutta, directly pointing to No Mind.
No grasping at subject and object, forgotten mind and body.)
[19/5/20, 1:24:48 AM] John Tan: 如此你會看到,的確無物在這裡;如此,的確無物。什麼都沒有時,您將看到,你不在此處,不在彼處,也不在兩者之間。此即苦的止息2。(自說經1.10)
....
(As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
betwixt the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.” (ud. 1.10)
- http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2008/01/ajahn-amaro-on-non-duality-and.html )
[19/5/20, 1:25:23 AM] John Tan: If without the above that, then it can be interpreted as just a state of no mind samadhi.
[19/5/20, 1:25:32 AM] John Tan: There is no insight involved.
[19/5/20, 1:27:42 AM] Soh Wei Yu: ic..
[19/5/20, 1:28:09 AM] John Tan: But it is stated, therefore u will see from in seeing, just the seen, u will realize there is no object here, there is no subject here, no subject there either, nor any in between.
[19/5/20, 1:34:02 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[19/5/20, 1:34:33 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Im glad they recently released that translation and ajahn amaro’s book in chinese. Otherwise cant find a good one that distinguishes that
[19/5/20, 1:34:49 AM] Soh Wei Yu: I see other chinese explanations of bahiya also more on no mind
[19/5/20, 1:34:59 AM] John Tan: Oh just recently released?
[19/5/20, 1:35:11 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Ajahn amaro’s old book but recently translated to chinese
[19/5/20, 1:35:16 AM] Soh Wei Yu: He also has a new book but in english
[19/5/20, 1:35:28 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Called the breakthrough. He also reiterated bahiya sutta in that
[19/5/20, 1:35:46 AM] John Tan: I heard he went into dzogchen?
[19/5/20, 1:36:23 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Nope but he was discussing dzogchen with his friend tsoknyi rinpoche and found it similar to his thai forest practice. Tsoknyi rinpoche is the one i went to his retreat last year lol
[19/5/20, 1:37:31 AM] John Tan: Most important breakthrough post that is not go into subsuming but into dependent origination and emptiness. Many can still turn into non-dual awareness teaching.
[19/5/20, 1:37:59 AM] John Tan: Or one can move into [total] exertion and emptiness like dogen...
[19/5/20, 1:38:11 AM] John Tan: Like 洪文亮 (Zen Master Hong Wen Liang)
....
John Tan: "What is
important to know in bahiya, Buddha actually included the path, experience and
the realization in such a short teaching."