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Yin Ling

A lot of ppl speak of no-self(Anatta) realisation as “dis identification of the self” ONLY, which is not my direct xp. It’s at most intellectualization of anatta imo. 

To me the most profound shift when anatta happens is the shift of identification, not only disidentifying. Well language can always fail us and this sentence will probably get nitpicked but if u xp anatta moment to moment u will know what I’m speaking about. 

That shift of identity into totality, encompassing sky and earth, very sensorial based and non-conceptual is anatta. 

Self-deconstruction method taught by classical Buddhist teaching is a raft and only a raft and it supports by giving confidence of the nature of reality. It takes a long time for direct xp to dawn because it is quite far from what Buddha wants to show us. Hence the gradual path. 

One need to practice “Mahamudra” to really come to direct experience, or zen , or self inquiry, or any direct realisation method to come face to face with Anatta. 

It is very profound.

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Frank Yang

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11You, John Tan, Tan Jui Horng and 8 others

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Tan Jui Horng

Do you mean the dis-identification via "This is not me; this is not mine, I am not this" ?

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Yin Ling

Tan Jui Horng yeah like..

Ppl will say often

There is no I , there is no my, there is no mine.

The body is not I, not mine. The feelings is not I , not mine.. etcetera

that is correct.

But if u ask abit more.. if everything is not I, not mine right.. but u are clearly alive

Then what is this hearing, seeing, sensing, touching, what’s all this?

There’s clearly existence right, but how ?

Without experential anatta or coming face to face with “existence”, ppl usually cannot answer or just keep parroting the Not I , not my …

Which doesn’t even go close to realization imo. Cannot talk about emptienss without addressing the luminous mind


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Tan Jui Horng

Yeah, non/under-development on luminosity aspect of experience. Wonder if thai forest tradition also has this problem, given that they do tend to cover the ground on that to the extent that the teachers have to warn against mistaking luminosity as enlightenment.


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Yin Ling

Tan Jui Horng

hmmnot sure their experience.

But to me right, without that “Mu”,

One is still not out of the duality structure . Where does the “sense of existence” go when one disidentify?

It was in the self , and in anatta it is in everything.

But if only disidentify, then where does that sense go?

That’s a crucial “sense”.

Probably the only sense that’s left for myself personally.

Without that, I cannot imagine how ppl experience no-self? I am curious though


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Tan Jui Horng

Yeah it's like this "what is THIS that is so alive" question goes unanswered due to being unexplored. I suspect many people's practice goes in circles because they intuitively get a taste of the aliveness yet cannot grasp what it is, so there's a certain level of doubt which impedes progress despite being able to see aggregates in experience.

Luminosity is aliveness, is engagement. Peak luminosity causes total engagement which together with right view that removes distinction between self and other, results in total exertion. In a sense, a huge part of the enlightenment journey is the growing up of this luminosity: first you identify and nurture it, then you see it for what it is.


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Yin Ling

Tan Jui Horng I love this.

I talk about it though it sounds arrogant 🤦🏻‍♀️… because I find it so very crucial in realisation.

To realize the non differentiation of self and others first from this sense of existence, then one have the clear xp it is literally the same sense all around, able to be validated from moment to moment, then there is no more doubt.

the realisation of there actually is no-self comes after .

Hence I like how zen starts with finding out “Mu” and Mahamudra the “mind”.

It makes good sense.

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