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A common misunderstanding is that Buddha taught "life is suffering". As Mr./Ms. AS pointed out, there is often an overemphasis on suffering, but actually in Buddhism, there is only suffering when there is appropriation and clinging. To be clear: Buddha has never said "life is suffering", however, he did teach right from the beginning in his first discourse on the four noble truths that "appropriated aggregates are suffering", and by appropriated I mean tainted with I-making and mine-making.
In the Pali suttas, clinging and appropriation are not equated with the sheer aggregates ( https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN44.html ), and as Stian mentioned, he thinks aggregates are almost never mentioned in the sense of 'sheer aggregates' in the Pali canon. I think you get glimpses of how are 'sheer aggregates experienced by Buddha/arahants' in scriptures like Bahiya Sutta and Kalaka Sutta. In any case, the appropriation is what causes suffering, and the end of appropriation is the end of suffering.
In the Pali suttas, clinging and appropriation are not equated with the sheer aggregates ( https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN44.html ), and as Stian mentioned, he thinks aggregates are almost never mentioned in the sense of 'sheer aggregates' in the Pali canon. I think you get glimpses of how are 'sheer aggregates experienced by Buddha/arahants' in scriptures like Bahiya Sutta and Kalaka Sutta. In any case, the appropriation is what causes suffering, and the end of appropriation is the end of suffering.
In Bahiya Sutta ( http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2008/01/ajahn-amaro-on-non-duality-and.html ), the end of appropriation is equated to the end of suffering, and it is the definition of Nirvana ( http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2012/09/great-resource-of-buddha-teachings.html ). The first discourse he taught was on the four noble truths and one of his five students attained stream entry then, and the second discourse ( https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2018/12/the-anatta-lakkhana-sutta.html ) he taught was on anatta and all the five monks became arahants.
Now when we come to the Mahayana teachings, all aggregates are taught to be primordially pure and luminous. Does this negate the Pali suttas which says appropriated aggregates are suffering? No, it does not, if understood correctly in context.
Here's some nice clarifications on Dhammawheel:
"
Sobhana wrote:
The Buddha sums up his definition of dukkha with: "aggregates subject to clinging are suffering" (pancupadanakkhandha).
What is the meaning and what are the implications?"
"Since "upadana" means "appropriation",
more
accurate translation would be "appropriated aggregates are suffering".
This implies that suffering continues as long as the aggregates are
appropriated, identified with.
Best wishes!
Post by vinasp » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:10 am
Hi everyone,
I intend to quote some discourses which speak of the cessation of the clinging aggregates, using the alternative term 'sakkaya.'
One problem with this term is that every translator seems to use a different word for it.
Bhikkhu Bodhi uses 'identity', Ven. Thanissaro uses 'identification'.
However, I first need to show that 'identity' does indeed mean the five aggregates subject to clinging, this is stated in MN 44
"Lady,'identity, identity' is said. What is called identity by the Blessed One?"
"Friend Visakha, these five aggregates affected by clinging are called identity by the Blessed One..."
[Bhikkhu Bodhi, MLDB,- MN 44.2]
When
I looked on suttacentral I found that they were not using BB's
translation for MN 44, but the one that they are using is very good, it
is by Anandajoti Bhikkhu.
“ ‘Embodiment, embodiment,’ is said, Noble Lady. What, Noble Lady, is said to be embodiment by the Gracious One?”
“These
five constituents (of mind and body) that provide fuel for attachment,
friend Visākha, are said to be embodiment by the Gracious One, as
follows:
the
form constituent that provides fuel for attachment, the feelings
constituent that provides fuel for attachment, the perceptions
constituent that provides fuel for attachment, the (mental) processes
constituent that provides fuel for attachment, the consciousness
constituent that provides fuel for attachment...." [suttacentral.net - MN 44]
Clinging
is a mistranslation of 'upadana', fuel or nutriment is much better, I
prefer 'sustain' because this sustaining is the cause of 'bhava'
(becoming or existence), the continuation of the existence of the
apparent self.
“These five constituents (of mind and body) that provide fuel for attachment ..."
Should be understood as: “These five constituents (of mind and body) that provide fuel for becoming (bhava).."
See
also SN 12.11 where the 'four nutriments' are said to have craving as
their source or origin. This is Dependent Origination with the four
nutriments replacing clinging (upadana).
Regards, Vincent.
....
“Yes, upadana-khandha means 'object of clinging' ('aggregate of clinging').
It does not mean a potential object of clinging but it means an object of actual clinging.
Therefore, a lamp is not an upadanakhandha until there is attachment to the lamp as 'my lamp'.
It follows the word compound 'upadanakhandha' can be translated as 'aggregates subject to clinging' or 'aggregates of clinging'.
“
.....
[11:32 AM, 8/2/2020] John Tan: Tsongkhapa spoke about appropriated aggregates in his lam-rim chen-mo.
[11:32 AM, 8/2/2020] John Tan: Mmk [Mūlamadhyamakakārikā] also
[11:32 AM, 8/2/2020] John Tan: Mmk [Mūlamadhyamakakārikā] also
....
https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=29517&p=425812#p425812
Re: The 3 marks of what, exactly?
Unread post by vinasp » Sun May 21, 2017 11:55 am
Hi everyone,
"Bhikkhus, form is impermanent, feeling is impermanent, perception is impermanent, volitional formations are impermanent, consciousness is impermanent....." SN 22.12
“Bhikkhus, form is suffering, feeling is suffering, perception is suffering, volitional formations are suffering, consciousness is suffering....." SN 22.13
“Bhikkhus, form is nonself, feeling is nonself, perception is nonself, volitional formations are nonself, consciousness is nonself....." SN 22.14
These may appear to be talking about the five aggregates, but I think that the five clinging aggregates are meant. All three continue in this way:
"Seeing thus, bhikkhus, the instructed noble disciple experiences revulsion towards form, revulsion towards feeling, revulsion towards perception, revulsion towards volitional formations, revulsion towards consciousness. Experiencing revulsion, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion his mind is liberated. When it is liberated there comes the knowledge: ‘It’s liberated.’ He understands: ‘Destroyed is birth, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more for this state of being.’”
Clearly, the aggregates mentioned at the start are those of an unliberated individual.
Another possibility is that 'form is suffering', and the rest, are not meant to be understood as ontological statements, but as how these things should be regarded. This explains 'seeing thus' as what leads to liberation.
Actual form is experienced, but the 'form aggregate' may mean a habit of regarding form in the wrong way, as permanent, a source of pleasure, and in relation to a self. If so, then the form aggregate will vanish when seen in the right way.
It seems that the discourses do not always make an explicit distinction between the aggregates and the clinging aggregates.
Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi, while not entirely rejecting the distinction, follows the Abhidhamma and Commentaries, arguing that the Arahant is still described by clinging aggregates.
Perhaps we should assume that almost all teaching on the aggregates is about the five clinging aggregates.
Regards, Vincent.
Re: The 3 marks of what, exactly?
Unread post by vinasp » Sun May 21, 2017 11:55 am
Hi everyone,
"Bhikkhus, form is impermanent, feeling is impermanent, perception is impermanent, volitional formations are impermanent, consciousness is impermanent....." SN 22.12
“Bhikkhus, form is suffering, feeling is suffering, perception is suffering, volitional formations are suffering, consciousness is suffering....." SN 22.13
“Bhikkhus, form is nonself, feeling is nonself, perception is nonself, volitional formations are nonself, consciousness is nonself....." SN 22.14
These may appear to be talking about the five aggregates, but I think that the five clinging aggregates are meant. All three continue in this way:
"Seeing thus, bhikkhus, the instructed noble disciple experiences revulsion towards form, revulsion towards feeling, revulsion towards perception, revulsion towards volitional formations, revulsion towards consciousness. Experiencing revulsion, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion his mind is liberated. When it is liberated there comes the knowledge: ‘It’s liberated.’ He understands: ‘Destroyed is birth, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more for this state of being.’”
Clearly, the aggregates mentioned at the start are those of an unliberated individual.
Another possibility is that 'form is suffering', and the rest, are not meant to be understood as ontological statements, but as how these things should be regarded. This explains 'seeing thus' as what leads to liberation.
Actual form is experienced, but the 'form aggregate' may mean a habit of regarding form in the wrong way, as permanent, a source of pleasure, and in relation to a self. If so, then the form aggregate will vanish when seen in the right way.
It seems that the discourses do not always make an explicit distinction between the aggregates and the clinging aggregates.
Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi, while not entirely rejecting the distinction, follows the Abhidhamma and Commentaries, arguing that the Arahant is still described by clinging aggregates.
Perhaps we should assume that almost all teaching on the aggregates is about the five clinging aggregates.
Regards, Vincent.
....
A. From MN 44, the Culavedalla Sutta, The Shorter Series of Questions and Answers
Scene: Householder Visakha has a Q&A with Bukkhuni Dhammadina
2. “Lady…What is called identity by the Blessed One?”
“Friend Visakha, the five aggregates affected by clinging are called identity by the Blessed One; that is, the material form aggregate affected by clinging, the feeling aggregate affected by clinging, the perception aggregate affected by clinging, the mental formations aggregate affected by clinging, and the consciousness aggregate affected by clinging.”
7. “Lady, how does identity view come to be?”
“Here, friend Visakha, an untaught person regards …material form as self, or self as possessed of material form…..feeling as self, or self as possessed of feeling…. He regards perceptions as self or as self possessed of perceptions…. mental formations as self, or self as possessed of mental formations…. consciousness as self, or self as possessed of consciousness….”
8. “Lady, how does identity view not come to be?”
“Here, friend Visakha, a well-taught noble disciple, who has regard for the noble ones and is skilled and disciplined in their Dhamma….does not regard feeling as self or self as of possessed of feeling…. He does not regard perceptions as self or self as possessed of perception….He does not regard material form as self or self as possessed of material form….he does not regard mental formations as self…..does not regard consciousness as self….”
.........
William Lim
Why is "all aggregates subjected to appropriation" suffering?
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Soh Wei Yu
“Now
this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of suffering: birth is suffering,
aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; union with
what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is
suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five
aggregates subject to clinging are suffering.
SUTTACENTRAL.NET
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Soh Wei Yu
The ending of appropriation is happiness:
MN 22:
Not Yours
“Therefore,
bhikkhus, whatever is not yours, abandon it; when you have abandoned
it, that will lead to your welfare and happiness for a long time. What
is it that is not yours? Material form is not yours. Abandon it. When
you have abandoned it, that will lead to your welfare and happiness for a
long time. Feeling is not yours. Abandon it. When you have abandoned
it, that will lead to your welfare and happiness for a long time.
Perception is not yours. Abandon it. When you have abandoned it, that
will lead to your welfare and happiness for a long time. Formations are
not yours. Abandon them. When you have abandoned them, that will lead to
your welfare and happiness for a long time. Consciousness is not yours.
Abandon it. When you have abandoned it, that will lead to your welfare
and happiness for a long time.
“Bhikkhus,
what do you think? If people carried off the grass, sticks, branches,
and leaves in this Jeta Grove, or burned them, or did what they liked
with them, would you think: ‘People are carrying us off or burning us or
doing what they like with us’?”—“No, venerable sir. Why not? Because
that is neither our self nor what belongs to our self.”—“So too,
bhikkhus, whatever is not yours, abandon it; when you have abandoned it,
that will lead to your welfare and happiness for a long time. What is
it that is not yours? Material form is not yours…Feeling is not
yours…Perception is not yours…Formations are not yours…Consciousness is
not yours. Abandon it. When you have abandoned it, that will lead to
your welfare and happiness for a long time.
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.........
Also related:
Fetter
"The
eye is not the fetter of forms, nor are forms the fetter of the eye.
Whatever desire & passion arises in dependence on the two of them:
That is the fetter there. The ear is not the fetter of sounds... The
nose is not the fetter of aromas... The tongue is not the fetter of
flavors... The body is not the fetter of tactile sensations... The
intellect is not the fetter of ideas, nor are ideas the fetter of the
intellect. Whatever desire & passion arises in dependence on the two of them: That is the fetter there." -- Buddha, SN 35.191 (PTS: S IV 162)
"My son, we are not bound by appearances; we are bound by our clinging to them." - Tilopa to Naropa
"The five senses arising with their objects are unimpeded radiance.
What is born from not grasping at objects is the unborn basic state.
Attachment to appearances may be unceasing but reverse it: meditate naturally settled.
Empty appearances arising free from the intellect is the path of natural expressions.
Do not see appearances as problems, let go of clinging.
There will come a time when you will arrive in the valley of one taste meditation." - Yang Gönpa
"The five senses arising with their objects are unimpeded radiance.
What is born from not grasping at objects is the unborn basic state.
Attachment to appearances may be unceasing but reverse it: meditate naturally settled.
Empty appearances arising free from the intellect is the path of natural expressions.
Do not see appearances as problems, let go of clinging.
There will come a time when you will arrive in the valley of one taste meditation." - Yang Gönpa
