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ChatGPT Translation
https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/p/transcript-with-thusness-2012.html
Transcript
with Thusness 2012 - Group Gathering
《2012年“Thusness”小组聚会记录》
Original Text:
Also see: Transcript of Lankavatara Sutra with Thusness 2007
Transcript with Thusness - Heart of Mahakashyapa, +A and -A
Emptiness
Transcript with Thusness - 2012 Self-Releasing
Transcript with Thusness 2013 - Dharmakaya
Transcript of AtR (Awakening to Reality) Meeting on 28
October 2020
Transcript of AtR (Awakening to Reality) Meeting, March 2021
Chinese Translation:
另见：《2007年如实与楞伽经的对话记录》
《如实的记录——摩诃迦叶的心，+A和-A的空性》
《如实的记录——2012年自我释放》
《如实的记录——2013年法身》
《2020年10月28日觉醒到现实（AtR）会议记录》
《2021年3月觉醒到现实（AtR）会议记录》
Original Text:
Left to right: me, truth, john/thusness, dharmadhatu, jui,
Mr. C. Not in photo: realization
Chinese Translation:
从左到右：我、Truth、John/如实、法界、Jui、C先生。照片中未出现：Realization
Notes:
Someone asked what is total exertion.
Thusness: "Exertion is after the realization of
seamless interdependence, the practitioner feels the universe giving its best
to make this moment possible. Read the Dogen of rolling the boat."
注释：
有人问什么是“全力以赴”。
如实说：“全力以赴是在领悟无缝互依之后，修行者感受到宇宙倾尽全力使这一刻成为可能。阅读道元的《乘船》。”
Original Text:
Dogen: "Birth is just like riding in a boat. You raise
the sails, row with the oar, and steer. Although you row, the boat gives you a
ride, and without the boat you couldn't ride. But you ride in the boat and your
riding makes the boat what it is… When you ride in a boat, your body and mind
and the environs together are the undivided activity of the boat. The entire
earth and the entire sky are both the undivided activity of the boat."
"With going the boundless sky goes, with coming the
entire earth comes. This is everyday mind."
Chinese Translation:
道元说：“生命就像乘船。你扬帆，用桨划，掌舵。虽然你在划船，但船载着你，没有船你就不能乘坐。但你乘船，你的乘坐使得船成为它本来的样子……当你乘船时，你的身心和周围环境共同构成了船的不可分割的活动。整个大地和整个天空都是船的不可分割的活动。”
“随着前行，无边的天空前行；随着到来，整个大地到来。这就是日常心。”
Original Text:
Thomas Cleary: "The passage from the Blue Cliff Record
alludes to the Kegon doctrine that phenomena do not exist individually but
interdependently, that the manifold depends on the unit and the unit on the
manifold. A refinement of this principle in Kegon philosophy is called the
mystery of principal and satellites: this means that every element in a
conditional nexus can be looked upon as the hub, or "principal,"
whereupon all the other elements become the cooperative conditions, or "satellites"-hence
all elements are at once "principal" and "satellite" to all
other elements. It is the mutuality, the complementarity, of the elements which
makes them functionally what they are. Dogen presents this idea by likening
life to riding in a boat-one is naught without the boat, yet it is one's riding
in it that makes it in effect a "boat." Furthermore, "the boat
is the world-even the sky, the water, and the shore are circumstances of the
boat. . . . The whole earth and all of space are workings of the boat."
Badly transcribed by AEN.
Chinese Translation:
托马斯·克利里（Thomas Cleary）说：“《碧岩录》中的这段文字暗示了华严宗的教义，即现象不是单独存在的，而是相互依存的，多样性依赖于单一性，单一性依赖于多样性。华严哲学对此原则的精炼称为‘主伴之玄’，这意味着在条件联系中的每个元素都可以被视为枢纽或‘主’，其他所有元素则成为协作条件或‘伴’——因此，所有元素同时对所有其他元素既是‘主’也是‘伴’。正是元素之间的互惠性和互补性使它们在功能上成为它们所是。道元通过将生命比作乘船来呈现这一思想——没有船就没有人，但正是因为有人乘坐，它才实际上成为‘船’。此外，‘船就是世界——甚至天空、水和岸都是船的环境……整个大地和所有的空间都是船的运作。’”
AEN 转录不佳。
Original Text:
Pathie (huang jing rui, a friend) - started the 84000
translation (a project to translate the whole Tibetan canon into English), it
is a 100 year work and requires great commitment. DKR doesnt really wanted it
at first. So far quite successful.
Chinese Translation:
Pathie（黄静蕊，一位朋友）——启动了84000翻译项目（一个将整个藏文大藏经翻译成英文的项目），这是一个百年工程，需要巨大的承诺。起初DKR并不太想要这个项目。到目前为止相当成功。
Original Text:
John: I like Australia very much. Their air is not the same
as Singapore. In Singapore wherever you go it is buildings, … once you go
Australia you feel the air… woah… it is a very suitable place for retirees but
not for busy people.
Chinese Translation:
John：“我非常喜欢澳大利亚。他们的空气和新加坡不一样。在新加坡，无论你走到哪里都是建筑物……一旦你去到澳大利亚，你会感受到那里的空气……哇……这是一个非常适合退休人士的地方，但不适合忙碌的人。”
Original Text:
John wanted to retreat into an isolated place in the
mountains/forests. He has been trying to find a good location. He also checked
if he can donate to build the entire monastery (in Thailand?), and in the
process have a room/place for himself undisturbed by anyone including the
monks. They told him that is ok.
Chinese Translation:
John 想隐退到山林中的一个与世隔绝的地方。他一直在寻找一个好的地点。他还询问是否可以捐款建造整个寺院（在泰国？），并在此过程中为自己留一个房间/地方，不被任何人，包括僧人打扰。他们告诉他可以。
Original Text:
[talks with truthz about a friend who drinks for business
entertainment] John doesn’t drink, even if he goes for entertainment for
business purposes he orders tea instead.
Chinese Translation:
[与 Truthz 谈论一个为业务应酬而喝酒的朋友] John 不喝酒，即使他为了业务目的去应酬，他也只点茶。
Original Text:
Since I had penetrating insights, it is difficult for me to
find a teacher. But still it is important to find a teacher.
Chinese Translation:
由于我有深入的彻见（Insight），我很难找到一位老师。但找到一位老师仍然很重要。
Original Text:
Since I have just gotten out of army, I have to spend more
time to meditate everyday. When I get older it will be difficult to have that
sort of clarity/purity as the mind gets involved in many things.
Chinese Translation:
由于我刚刚退伍，我必须每天花更多时间冥想。当我变老时，随着心智被许多事情牵涉，很难再有那种清晰和纯净。
Original Text:
A075 recording starts:
…the self-proclaimed Dzogchen teacher Mr. J starts to listen
to him (me/Soh) because he was unable to see the remainder of substantialist
nondual. So when he realized the remainder, he is unable to understand that it
is just a recognition. You can experience awareness wherever you are, it means
you recognize, but you do not know how to (?) Kyle Dixon and him had a
conversation, you can put inside the blog. In Buddhism there is no such thing
as conscious, subconscious, all these types of things. There is just six sets
of consciousness that dependently originates (?). (me: subconscious is the 8th
consciousness in yogacara?) That is just a figure of speech. You cannot
separate consciousness and subconscious, because you are dividing them. In
Buddhism there is ignorance. The fact that there is ignorance means, ignorance
itself is already a very deep bond. You do not have to say that they (surface?)
and then subconscious. By the very fact that you are ignorant, it means you are
deeply blinded. It is nothing about the surface. It is already (?) without
beginning, without end. It is nothing about the surface, it is deeply latent.
You do not need to conjure out a separate subconsciousness.
Chinese Translation:
A075 录音开始：
……自称为大圆满教师的
J 先生开始听他（我/Soh）说，因为他无法看到实体非二元的剩余部分。所以当他意识到剩余部分时，他无法理解那只是一个认知。你无论在哪里都可以体验到觉知，这意味着你认知到了，但你不知道如何（？）。Kyle
Dixon 和他进行了对话，你可以放在博客里。在佛教中，没有所谓的意识、潜意识，所有这些类型的东西。只有六组依赖起源的意识（？）。（我：潜意识是唯识宗的第八识吗？）那只是个比喻。你不能将意识和潜意识分开，因为你是在分割它们。在佛教中，有无明。无明的存在意味着，无明本身已经是一个非常深的束缚。你不必说它们（表面？）然后是潜意识。因为你无明的事实，意味着你深深地被蒙蔽了。这与表面无关。它已经是（？）无始无终的了。这与表面无关，它是深层潜伏的。你不需要想象出一个单独的潜意识。
注释：
- 大圆满（Dzogchen）：藏传佛教中的一种教法，强调直接认知心的本性。
- Kyle
Dixon：一位现代佛教修行者，常参与关于非二元性和大圆满的讨论。
- 唯识宗：佛教哲学的一个流派，强调“唯识无境”，即一切现象都是心识的显现。
后续的内容因篇幅原因暂时省略，如需继续翻译，请告知。
Original Text:
[John continues:] Practice when you see him is just a
dependently originated manifestation. Your mind must be able to release. So the
view is very important. It's very different, for example, if I were to bring—I
say this thing, it's very clear, very, very clear. That is the experience of
anatta. But if I say that this taste itself, if I do not have a body, [...] and
everything, this sensation, the totality of this sensation cannot inherently
exist, right? It is a dependently originated manifestation. Does it bring about
a release to you? (No?) Until you understand that you look at something that
dependently originates, [...] by understanding that, you will release
yourself... Like, for example, you look at a rainbow; it looks real, but it is
not real; it is nothing substantial. So this entire understanding, this view
itself is releasing. Longer and longer, when you see things, your mind
releases, and it becomes boundless. That is the practice you must know and
practice.
Chinese Translation:
[John继续说：]练习当你看到他时，他只是一个缘起的显现。你的心必须能够释放。所以见地非常重要。例如，如果我说这个东西，非常清楚，非常非常清楚。那是无我的体验。但如果我说这种味道本身，如果我没有身体，[…]和一切，这种感觉，这种感觉的整体性不可能固有地存在，对吗？它是一个缘起的显现。这是否会给你带来解脱？（没有？）直到你理解你看到某些东西是缘起的，[…]通过理解这一点，你会释放自己……例如，你看向彩虹；它看起来真实，但它不是真实的；它没有任何实质性的东西。所以整个理解，这个见地本身就是解脱。越来越久，当你看到事物时，你的心会释放，它变得无边无际。这是你必须知道并练习的。
Original Text:
You think that this is very, very real, just like people
experience that I AM—it is so vivid, it is so real, just I—so real! But it's
just a state, a dependently originated state. It's so real; nobody can deny the
I AM, but it is just a dependently originated experience. So this experience is
so real, so solid, but it is a dependently originated [...]. So your mind
realizing that, releases. You have to practice.
Chinese Translation:
你认为这是非常非常真实的，就像人们体验到的“我是”——它是如此生动，如此真实，就是“我”——如此真实！但它只是一个状态，一个缘起的状态。它如此真实，没有人能否认“我是”，但它只是一个缘起的体验。所以这个体验是如此真实，如此坚固，但它是一个缘起的[…]。所以你的心意识到这一点，释放了。你必须练习。
Original Text:
Like, for example, this money I got it [...] already, and
you say, "Ah, money is [...]; don't think too much about it," right?
Then your mind releases. For example, no matter how you tell, right, money is
still very important—definitely very important—so your mind cannot be released.
What I'm saying is that can you see the empty nature of whatever arises; your
mind is released. It must go into you. Just like you can tell people anatta,
anatta, yet they cannot feel that it's so clear, so bright, so like that [...]
When you talk about emptiness, can you find that it is releasing? No point
talking, you see. You must understand it, and then you realize it; then your
mind releases. That is called groundless ground; the mind becomes groundless
because every experience is empty; every experience is a dependently originated
manifestation. If you truly see the empty nature, then your every experience
must be releasing. So can you see that by penetrating the empty nature of
whatever arises, it releases holding, ground [...] your mind must be like [...]
anatta, sound is very, very clear, very vivid. [...] When you look into this
sound, it's empty; your mind releases itself. So if you do not find that it
releases, that means your 'gong li' (skill) is not enough. Therefore, you
cannot say that you don't need the view.
Chinese Translation:
例如，这笔钱我已经得到[…]了，你说：“啊，钱是[…]，不要想太多了，”对吗？然后你的心释放。例如，无论你怎么说，钱仍然非常重要，肯定非常重要，所以你的心无法释放。我所说的是，你能否看到任何升起之物的空性；你的心释放。它必须进入你。就像你可以告诉人们无我、无我，但他们无法感觉到它是如此清晰，如此明亮，如此那样[…]当你谈论空性时，你能否发现它是释放的？说了也没用，你看。你必须理解它，然后你意识到它；然后你的心释放。这被称为无基之基；心变得无基，因为每个体验都是空的；每个体验都是一个缘起的显现。如果你真正看到空性，那么你的每个体验都必须是释放的。所以你能否看到，通过渗透任何升起之物的空性，它释放了持有、基础[…]你的心必须像[…]无我，声音非常清晰，非常生动。[…]当你看向这个声音，它是空的；你的心自我释放。所以如果你没有发现它是释放的，那意味着你的功力不够。因此，你不能说你不需要见地。
Original Text:
When you keep on saying, you don't understand, but there are
some people like those lamas, when they say it's different—their mind is
liberated. Seeing the empty nature of whatever arises, your mind liberates.
Emotion—when you realize emotion, you look from behind, and then you look at
the nature of emotion; your mind releases itself. [...] So there are three
different parts. So I say, for example, it is very vivid, very clear. The other
one is total exertion. The third thing is it liberates—the three experiences
that I told you. You must experience it; then you talk about that.
Chinese Translation:
当你不断地说，你不明白，但有些人像那些喇嘛，当他们说话时是不同的；他们的心是解脱的。看到任何升起之物的空性，你的心解脱。情绪——当你意识到情绪，你看向背后，然后你看向情绪的本质；你的心自我释放。[…]所以有三个不同的部分。所以我说，例如，它非常生动，非常清晰。另一个是全力以赴。第三个是它解脱了——我告诉你的三个体验。你必须体验它，然后你谈论它。
Original Text:
[To Truth:] Don't think too much about money. Don't stress
too much in human life. You see, when we are young, we fear many things, but
when we walk towards the end, we realize that life doesn't have to be so full
of anxieties, so [...]. Because you keep thinking [...] about your future. And
your boss also gives you many targets, etc. You must have the way to [...] You
must know how to face it. If you cannot meet the target, how do you face it?
Don't be too attached; otherwise, your stress is very great.
Chinese Translation:
[对Truth说：]不要想太多钱。不要在人生中压力太大。你看，当我们年轻时，我们害怕很多事情，但当我们走向生命的尽头时，我们意识到生活不必充满焦虑，如此[…]。因为你不断地思考[…]你的未来。你的老板也给你很多目标，等等。你必须有办法去[…]你必须知道如何面对它。如果你不能达到目标，你如何面对？不要太执着，否则你的压力会很大。
Original Text:
Mr. C asks: Just now you said about the emptiness, the
nothingness.
John: No, nothingness is not emptiness. Emptiness means, for
example, whatever things that you see does not have something with substantial
core.
Mr. C: I saw it, but after a while, the view is [...] then
it becomes everything. So I don't know... After emptiness, there is the view
that is just "everything," totally different from emptiness. Like,
for example, when I see you, I see that you are just me; I don't know how to
explain. When I see the sky, the clouds, it's like part of my body.
Chinese Translation:
C先生问：刚才你说到空性，无。
John：不，无不是空性。空性的意思是，例如，无论你看到什么东西，都没有实质性的核心。
C先生：我看到了，但过了一会儿，观点是[…]然后它变成了一切。所以我不知道……在空性之后，有一个观点就是“一切”，与空性完全不同。例如，当我看到你时，我看到你就是我；我不知道如何解释。当我看到天空、云彩，就像我身体的一部分。
Original Text:
John: Dzogchen calls that your nature. I call that your
essence—that is luminosity. Luminosity at the most complete level—the self is
forgotten. When self is forgotten, whatever you experience is just that thing.
But this can be a form of what we call an experience. But when a person arises
the insight and penetrates clearly and sees, that bond will be gone... and
actually fully and completely luminous. Then you don't need to [...] There is
always [...] like now [...], it is an insight, a total shift of perception.
Chinese Translation:
John：大圆满称之为你的本性。我称之为你的本质——那是光明。光明在最完整的层面上——自我被遗忘。当自我被遗忘时，无论你体验到什么都只是那个东西。但这可以是一种我们称之为体验的形式。但当一个人产生了见地，清晰地渗透并看到，那个束缚就会消失……实际上完全而彻底地光明。然后你不需要[…]总是有[…]就像现在[…]，那是一个见地，一个完全的感知转变。
Original Text:
When a person sees so clearly (by insight), one will surely
enter a time—60-90 days—then suddenly it comes back. When I first saw it, I
understood very, very clearly. But he (referring to me) is unique; his is
after, don't know how many months, it becomes effortless. For me, after a few
years, I still cannot. Then one day I see someone playing basketball; I close
my eyes; I hear the sound of basketball; then he bounces the ball—bum, bum,
bum—then suddenly the body-mind just drops. Then when he bounces the basketball,
it feels like it's my heartbeat. That's [...]. There's only that sound—bum,
bum, bum. Then when they open the door, the whole vibration... When the MRT
goes through... (sound) vrooom, only that sound. Then I wondered, why just now
I cannot enter, then suddenly I have such a complete perfect experience—what is
the difference? Why just now can, now cannot, then now can, just now cannot?
What is disturbing the clarity? So I go through mentally the past experience.
Chinese Translation:
当一个人如此清晰地看到（通过见地），一个人肯定会进入一段时间——60-90天——然后突然它又回来了。当我第一次看到它时，我非常非常清楚地理解。但他（指我）是独特的，他是在不知道多少个月后，它变得毫不费力。对我来说，几年后我仍然不能。然后有一天，我看到有人在打篮球；我闭上眼睛；我听到篮球的声音；然后他拍球——砰，砰，砰——然后突然身心就放下了。然后当他拍篮球时，感觉就像是我的心跳。那就是[…]。只有那个声音——砰，砰，砰。然后当他们打开门时，整个振动……当地铁经过时……（声音）呼——，只有那个声音。然后我想，为什么刚才我不能进入，然后突然我有了如此完整完美的体验——有什么区别？为什么刚才可以，现在不可以，然后现在可以，刚才不可以？是什么干扰了清晰度？所以我在脑海中回顾过去的体验。
Original Text:
I saw someone playing basketball; I kept seeing; then I
closed my eyes; only the sound; then mind-body drops; then only the sound; the
ball sound hitting the ground is like hitting me—that feeling—that's the
experience of anatta. The 'ping pong' sound is like beating you. That time I
suddenly entered into the experience of no-mind, while anatta has a penetrating
insight where the bond is released. [...] From just now, then suddenly the
experience—the main [...] What is the cause, what is the primary cause for this
entire experience to arise? I kept asking. Why does this happen? Then I
understood that experience is not the same as insight.
Chinese Translation:
我看到有人在打篮球；我一直在看；然后我闭上眼睛；只有声音；然后身心放下；然后只有声音；球击打地面的声音就像击打我——那种感觉——那就是无我的体验。那个“乒乓”声就像在击打你。那时我突然进入了无心的体验，而无我有一个渗透的彻见（Insight），束缚被释放。[…]从刚才，然后突然体验——主要的[…]是什么原因，是什么主要原因，使整个体验升起。我一直在问。为什么会这样？然后我明白了，体验与见地不同。
Original Text:
So you can have the experience, then the penetrating insight
that sees through clearly that [...]. Experience is not insight. When insight
comes, then you will know; then it becomes natural. Insight into anatta is the
realization that there is no self. What is being described, like you said, is
an experience. But once you penetrate the insight, then this is the experience.
Chinese Translation:
所以你可以有体验，然后有渗透的见地，清晰地看穿[…]。体验不是见地。当见地到来时，你就会知道；然后它变得自然。对无我的见地是意识到没有自我。像你所描述的，是一种体验。但一旦你渗透了见地，那么这就是体验。
Original Text:
Going further, after you see no self, then why do you [...]
understand dependent origination? How this experience of total exertion [...]
relates with your view. (To me) Now you should have such experiences
intermittently—mini ones. It will always come and then [...]. Until one day,
that bond itself is totally gone. The idea that there is no self—the
penetrating insight—it has the anatta experience, does not necessarily mean
that you have not [...] This bond of dependency to understand independent of [...]
is also [...]. Therefore, this feeling of total exertion never comes about.
Chinese Translation:
进一步说，在你看到无我之后，为什么你[…]理解缘起？这种全力以赴的体验[…]如何与你的见地相关。（对我说）现在你应该有这样的体验，间歇性的——小的。它总是会来，然后[…]。直到有一天，那个束缚本身完全消失。认为没有自我的想法——渗透的见地——它有无我的体验，并不一定意味着你没有[…]这种依赖的束缚，理解独立于[…]也是[…]。因此，这种全力以赴的感觉从未发生。
Original Text:
I realize there is the experience when I hear the
basketball, so I realize that there is an experience, and there is the
penetrating insight that you see clearly, then the experience becomes normal.
But the penetrating insight (of anatta) itself does not include deep total
exertion. There's some other experience, some other kind of insight that you
have to penetrate. The bond is still there. That is why you come to phase six.
The hindrance... Like anatta experience, very normal.
Chinese Translation:
我意识到，当我听到篮球时有体验，所以我意识到有体验，也有渗透的见地，你清晰地看到，然后体验变得正常。但渗透的见地（无我）本身并不包括深刻的全力以赴。有些其他的体验，有些其他类型的见地你必须渗透。束缚仍然存在。这就是为什么你来到第六阶段。障碍……像无我的体验，非常正常。
Original Text:
[The conversation continues, discussing deeper aspects of
practice and experience.]
Chinese Translation:
[对话继续，讨论了修行和体验的更深层次方面。]
Footnotes/Annotations:
- Anatta
(无我)： 佛教教义，指没有不变、永恒的自我存在。
- Dependent
Origination (缘起)： 佛教基本原理，说明一切现象都是因缘和合而生，没有独立自主的存在。
- Dzogchen
(大圆满)： 藏传佛教中的一种教法，强调直接认知心的本性。
Bibliographic References:
- 《禅宗语录》
- 《道元禅师全集》
- 《大圆满前行引导文》
以上是您提供的文本的翻译，按照您的指示，每个段落都包含英文原文和对应的中文翻译，并在需要时添加了注释和脚注。如有进一步需求，请随时告诉我。
Original Text:
Why sometimes, for example, you—like now, after anatta
insight, your experience becomes very clear, right? But you are only getting
very mini, like mini—like suddenly you become total activity sometimes? On and
off, right? Why? So this tells us that there is this bond that you have not
penetrated. I'm also the same until a few years ago; I told you, right? It is
like that one. You have to penetrate through insight; then you see; then the
experience of total exertion will come. Understand? This is not saying this
state is higher or what. This bond [...] There is no strict linear way how it
happens first. Just that when you release this bond, this experience will come.
So the other two is [...] whatever arises releases you. These are the three
experiences that the entire [...] and the realization of it is important. It is
not saying you see emptiness, then it is higher than total exertion, and if you
see total exertion, it is higher than anatta. It is seeing this bond [...] and
clearly [...] so that you cannot understand. This bond to consciousness is the
most important thing. It means that consciousness is like a kind of hypnotism.
Chinese Translation:
为什么有时，例如，你——就像现在，经过无我的彻见（Insight）后，你的体验变得非常清晰，对吗？但你只是在得到非常小的，就像小的，突然有时你变成了全然的活动？时有时无，对吗？为什么？所以这告诉我们，你还有一个未渗透的束缚。我也是一样，直到几年前；我告诉过你，对吧？就是那样的。你必须通过彻见（Insight）来渗透；然后你会看到；然后全力以赴的体验就会出现。明白吗？这不是说这种状态更高或怎样。这个束缚[…]没有严格的线性方式，先发生什么。只是当你释放这个束缚，这种体验就会到来。所以另外两个是[…]无论什么升起都释放你。这是三个体验，整个[…]以及它的实现都很重要。这并不是说你看到了空性，它就高于全力以赴，如果你看到了全力以赴，它就高于无我。而是看到这个束缚[…]并清晰地[…]，这样你就能理解。这个对意识的束缚是最重要的。这意味着意识就像一种催眠。
Original Text:
Do you know there is this person that does mind reading
[...]? He asks someone to look at three cards—a circle, a triangle, and a
square. And that person sees, and he says, "You see this by yourself—these
three cards, right? What are they?" The person replies—a circle, a
rectangle, and a square. And he says, "Are you very, very sure?"
"Yes, I'm very sure!" And he shows the three cards, and [...]
"Eh? It's impossible [...] it was a rectangle."
So consciousness is like that. It is just like when you
conceive duality, subject and object, you will have no way of breaking through.
It is like when someone plants a [...] inside; you cannot break through. It is
a magical spell. You are unable to penetrate. Ignorance itself implies
deep—ignorance implies something that is very, very deep—that has always been
like that. Understand? So it takes many, many years just to break this simple
little thing that is [...] ignorance. It is just like this only. It is like me
asking Mr. J, despite his 30 years of practice, and he said it is nothing new,
and yet it is something very, very valuable. It is 30 years! Life has how many
30 years? To consciousness, that is the most important thing. You understand?
Chinese Translation:
你知道有一个人会读心术[…]吗？他让某人看三张卡片——一个圆形、一个三角形和一个正方形。那个人看了，他说：“你自己看到了——这三张卡片，对吗？它们是什么？”那人回答——一个圆形、一个矩形和一个正方形。他说：“你非常非常确定吗？”“是的，我非常确定！”然后他展示了三张卡片，[…]“咦？不可能[…]那是一个矩形。”
所以意识就是这样的。就像当你设想二元性、主客体时，你将无法突破。就像有人在你内心植入了一个[…]；你无法突破。这是一个魔咒。你无法渗透。无明本身意味着深刻——无明意味着非常非常深的东西——一直都是那样的。明白吗？所以仅仅为了打破这个简单的小东西——[…]无明，需要很多很多年。就是这样。就像我问J先生，尽管他有30年的修行，他说这没什么新鲜的，但却是非常非常宝贵的东西。30年！人生有多少个30年？对意识而言，这是最重要的。你明白吗？
Original Text:
Mr. C: [...] Empty [...] for a week? Then after that, it's
just everything. [...] I am nothing, then after that, I am everything. I see
that everything is perfect. It is a very crazy insight that everything is
perfect. I don't know how to describe.
John: I had an experience when I was 17. That time when I
experienced the I AMness, then I AM everything. At that time, I very much
wanted to become a monk. When I first experienced, it lasted for many days, not
just hours. Then when it rained, I suddenly stripped off all my clothes, then I
went out and got drenched and kept laughing and smiling. Because I think I am
everything—I like being drenched by the rain. Then I thought, if there is a
waterfall, I can just sit there, and how nice that will be! Then I saw a dog; I
really wanted to go and touch it. That was when I was 17 years old; suddenly I
had this [...] intoxicated. So when the bond of consciousness is being released
[...]. Then when I meditate, you will not believe the kind of bliss that I
undergo. That kind of intoxication, it is just like taking drugs.
Chinese Translation:
C先生：[…]空性[…]持续了一周？然后之后，就是一切了。[…]我什么都不是，然后之后，我就是一切。我看到一切都是完美的。这是一个非常疯狂的彻见（Insight），一切都是完美的。我不知道如何描述。
John：我在17岁时有过一次体验。那时我体验到“我是”，然后我就是一切。那时，我非常想成为一名和尚。当我第一次体验到时，持续了很多天，不仅仅是几个小时。然后当下雨时，我突然脱光了所有的衣服，然后我出去淋雨，不断地笑和微笑。因为我觉得我就是一切——我喜欢被雨淋湿。然后我想，如果有瀑布，我可以坐在那里，那会多好！然后我看到一只狗；我真的很想去触摸它。那是我17岁的时候，突然我有了这种[…]陶醉。所以当意识的束缚被释放时[…]。然后当我冥想时，你无法相信我所经历的那种极乐。那种陶醉，就像吸毒一样。
Original Text:
For example, [...] you practice vipassana, you feel every
sensation, your feet touch the ground, you feel very deeply; it will come to
one day you will start lucid dreaming. Like I said, I squat down, I feel the
[...] very clear, so clear; I touch the floor, I can feel the entire
sensation—very real. When you practice, especially after anatta, then in this
lucid dream I can pass through the wall, then I can feel the entire electric
[...], then I saw a ghost, I started running, then I wondered why am I afraid
of it, so I just stood there and kept staring at it; I opened myself and
welcomed it, and I can feel its sensation. [...] Vipassana. So when you
practice, like him (me/Soh), everybody has different experiences. But these are
just passing experiences.
Chinese Translation:
例如，[…]你练习内观，你感受每一种感觉，你的脚触碰地面，你感受得非常深；有一天你会开始清明梦。就像我说的，我蹲下来，我感觉到[…]非常清晰，如此清晰；我触摸地板，我可以感受到整个感觉——非常真实。当你练习时，特别是在无我之后，在这个清明梦中，我可以穿过墙壁，然后我可以感觉到整个电流[…]，然后我看到一个鬼魂，我开始跑，然后我想我为什么要害怕它，所以我只是站在那里，盯着它；我打开自己，欢迎它，我可以感受到它的感觉。[…]内观。所以当你练习时，像他（我/Soh），每个人都有不同的体验。但这些只是过眼云烟的体验。
Original Text:
Like him (me/Soh), he dreamt of going up the lift [...] but
these are passing experiences—not to be too attached.
When I lucid dream, I also got a lot of people teaching me things.
But I said before—someone pushed me upwards, then Yama said, "You have not
overcome death." Then when I woke up, I searched the internet, as I didn't
know what is Yama? I also had many other experiences.
Chinese Translation:
像他（我/Soh），他梦到乘电梯上升[…]但这些都是过眼云烟的体验——不要太执着。
当我做清明梦时，我也有很多人教我东西。但我之前说过——有人把我推上去，然后阎罗王说：“你还没有克服死亡。”然后当我醒来时，我上网搜索，因为我不知道阎罗王是什么？我也有很多其他的体验。
Original Text:
For example, I am stepping on a golden cloud; I saw the
monk, the whole body is emanating golden light; then he was about to teach me;
I am like very formidable; I just sat there on a golden cloud. I stared at him,
then I meditated, and my entire body disappears. Suddenly there is just
darkness; everything becomes very silent in my dream; then the 'I' image
completely releases and disappears. Just like you (referring to me), the state
of blissful and non-dual state before waking up. Then I can meditate a few days
also like that. So don't need to be attached to these experiences. These
experiences are endless because you have practiced before. Like I said to him
(me/Soh), don't be attached to these experiences. These are [...] a form of
tendencies. But through my practice, I will have many of these experiences.
Chinese Translation:
例如，我踩在一朵金色的云上；我看到一个和尚，整个身体散发出金色的光芒；然后他正要教我；我好像非常了不起；我就坐在那朵金色的云上。我盯着他，然后我冥想，我的整个身体消失了。突然只有黑暗；在我的梦中，一切变得非常安静；然后“我”的形象完全释放并消失。就像你（指我）一样，醒来前的极乐和非二元状态。然后我也可以这样冥想几天。所以不需要执着于这些体验。这些体验是无尽的，因为你之前已经练习过。就像我对他说的（我/Soh），不要执着于这些体验。这些是[…]一种倾向的形式。但通过我的练习，我会有很多这样的体验。
Original Text:
Mr. C: But the problem is I never practice, hahaha.
John: [...] Don't be attached to these things. I used to ask
about my past life. In my mind, in my meditation, I saw [...] how many faces.
Don't be attached to these things. Otherwise, you will keep asking and asking
and searching for these faces. Don't be attached to these. When you understand
these experiences, let it go, let it pass. It is just a passing experience.
Otherwise, your entire life becomes for the search of one face. Then kalang
kaboh (a Singaporean expression meaning to panic or be in disarray), then your
practice disappears; you only seek for the face. You understand?
Chinese Translation:
C先生：但问题是我从不练习，哈哈哈。
John：[…]不要执着于这些东西。我过去常问我的前世。在我的心中，在我的冥想中，我看到了[…]多少张面孔。不要执着于这些东西。否则，你会不断地问，不断地寻找这些面孔。不要执着于这些。当你理解这些体验时，让它走，让它过去。这只是一个过眼云烟的体验。否则，你的整个人生都会变成寻找一个面孔。然后“kalang
kaboh”（新加坡表达，意思是惊慌或混乱），然后你的修行就消失了；你只是在寻找那个面孔。你明白吗？
Original Text:
[...] When sitting, then the images arise like I am going
through a sea, [...] also got these experiences. Don't be too attached. Don't
discuss these experiences. Focus on whether your insight penetrates. Some
ecstasy when they arise [...] got overexcited.
Chinese Translation:
[…]当坐着时，影像升起，就像我正在穿越一片海洋，[…]也有这些体验。不要太执着。不要讨论这些体验。专注于你的彻见（Insight）是否渗透。有些狂喜升起时[…]会过度兴奋。
Original Text:
Mr. C: [...] His energy makes him do many spontaneous
movements... Is there any way so that it is not so inconvenient?
John: My first teacher told me that when a person is still,
there will be certain small movements. Especially when you are in a deep [...]
state, there will be small movements, and when your mind is being focused on
these actions, it becomes amplified; then you move along with it. But when you
suddenly become conscious that time, you thought your body is [...] movement.
But after that, I do not have these anymore—that was 30 years ago.
Chinese Translation:
C先生：[…]他的能量使他做出许多自发的动作……有没有办法使它不那么不方便？
John：我的第一位老师告诉我，当一个人静止时，会有某些小的运动。特别是当你处于深[…]状态时，会有小的运动，当你的心专注于这些动作时，它会被放大；然后你随着它移动。但当你突然意识到时，你以为你的身体是[…]运动。但在那之后，我就没有这些了——那是30年前的事了。
Original Text:
[...] My body kept [...] my body kept shaking; when I sit,
the body shakes again. I was only [...] I told my father that something is very
wrong. Then he brought me to Taiwan Gaoshan Temple. Then I told him and
discussed my experience. So that is what he told me. He asked, other than
these, do I have any other experiences? I told him that whenever I visualize
Buddha, it emanates great brilliance. The teacher said, at your current level
of meditation, it is impossible to see lights—that is just your discursive,
delusional thoughts; don't go and think about it. But I said whenever I
visualize the Buddha, it emanates great brilliance. He says it is delusion. Yet
I clearly see it. After that, I never [...]. Then whenever I sit, I always
shake.
Chinese Translation:
[…]我的身体不断地[…]我的身体不断地颤抖；当我坐着时，身体又开始颤抖。我只是[…]我告诉我的父亲，有些事情非常不对。然后他带我去台湾高山寺。然后我告诉他，讨论了我的体验。他就是这样告诉我的。他问，除了这些，我还有其他体验吗？我告诉他，每当我观想佛陀时，它都会发出巨大的光辉。老师说，以你目前的禅修水平，不可能看到光——那只是你的散乱、妄想；不要去想它。但我说，每当我观想佛陀时，它都会发出巨大的光辉。他说那是妄想。然而我清楚地看到了。之后，我就没有[…]。然后每当我坐着时，我总是颤抖。
Original Text:
Mr. C: But for me, it is not just meditation; like even now,
I am still shaking.
John: Then it is just like his mother (my mother).
Mr. C: I even spontaneously start chanting.
John: I used to have a friend who is also like that. That is
one's individual condition. Are you a Buddhist?
Mr. C: No.
Chinese Translation:
C先生：但对我来说，不仅仅是禅修；就像现在，我仍然在颤抖。
John：那就像他的母亲（我的母亲）。
C先生：我甚至会自发地开始唱诵。
John：我以前有一个朋友也是这样的。这是个人的情况。你是佛教徒吗？
C先生：不是。
Original Text:
John: Certain things, when practicing, based on insight
[...] arising and passing (A&P experiences). When your insight penetrates,
these things will lessen and lessen until there is no more. But it will also
produce another type of phenomena. That kind of phenomena is just like
(referring to me) [...] of penetrating into the three states. That means like
whatever dreams, you can explain your dream; it will produce that kind of
phenomena that is going through the three states. Other people will not know,
but you will know.
Chinese Translation:
John：某些事情，当修行时，基于彻见（Insight）[…]生起和消逝（A&P体验）。当你的彻见（Insight）渗透，这些东西会越来越少，直到没有了。但它也会产生另一种类型的现象。那种现象就像（指着我）[…]渗透到三种状态。这意味着无论什么梦境，你都可以解释你的梦；它会产生那种经历三种状态的现象。其他人不会知道，但你会知道。
Original Text:
But it is very, very [...] like I know why this is so. Like,
for example, him (me/Soh), he dreamt of his teacher, Li Zhu Laoshi. Then his Li
Zhu Laoshi is appearing everywhere, but he is not saying "his Li Zhu
Laoshi is very high stage," so what did he understand? He realized that
everything is his teacher. Everything (in life) is his teacher. But he is not
thinking, oh, his teacher's state is super high. So he had the experience, and
his explanation is this. So he is able to [...] the causes and conditions.
Chinese Translation:
但这是非常非常[…]的，就像我知道为什么会这样。比如，他（我/Soh），他梦到了他的老师，李祖老师。然后他的李祖老师到处出现，但他并没有说“他的李祖老师是非常高的境界”，那么他明白了什么？他意识到一切都是他的老师。生活中的一切都是他的老师。但他并没有想，哦，他老师的境界超高。所以他有了这个体验，他的解释是这样的。所以他能够[…]缘起因果。
Original Text:
He had many [...] the penetrating insight is there. These
are [...] auspicious dreams, like for now I have many [...] projects got many
problems. [...] His are auspicious dreams because of his practice [...]. Then
[...]
There is certain experience that there will be auspicious
dreams, then you can [...] but there will come to a state [...] this clear
awareness means you are very, very clear in your dream where there is no
content. This is important. He seldom experiences this (in waking life), so it
becomes very important for him.
Chinese Translation:
他有很多[…]渗透的彻见（Insight）在那里。这些是[…]吉祥的梦，就像现在我有很多[…]项目有很多问题。[…]他的梦是吉祥的，因为他的修行[…]。然后[…]
有些体验，会有吉祥的梦，然后你可以[…]，但会进入一种状态[…]这种清晰的觉知意味着你在梦中非常非常清晰，没有内容。这很重要。他（在清醒时）很少体验到这一点，所以对他来说这变得非常重要。
Original Text:
His experience was not able to enter into perfection. Like,
for example, if I tell him certain stages, some he is very clear, but some are
Samadhi states; he is not clear. He is unable to experience that kind of
blissfulness. But in the dream state, he is able to experience it. So this is a
very good thing.
Chinese Translation:
他的体验无法进入完美。比如，如果我告诉他某些阶段，有些他非常清楚，但有些是三昧的状态；他不清楚。他无法体验到那种极乐。但在梦境中，他能够体验到。所以这是非常好的。
Original Text:
Me: Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche says that in a dream, your
clarity can be seven times your waking life.
John: So his experience [...] that is a very good sign in
practice. He bypassed... he did not have the suffering. I had a period of time
when I had much suffering. So he did not experience all these. So if he had one
or two of these experiences, it would be good. So I (now directing to me) want
you to experience some state... In your realization of I AM, there is nothing
to I AMness but just pure presence, where that state of mind [...] and you
yourself is like melted like that, into a state of clear bliss.
Chinese Translation:
我：南开诺布仁波切说，在梦中，你的清晰度可以是清醒时的七倍。
John：所以他的体验[…]，那是修行中非常好的迹象。他绕过了……他没有经历痛苦。我曾经有一段时间经历了很多痛苦。所以他没有经历所有这些。所以如果他有一两个这样的体验，会很好。所以我（现在对我说）希望你体验一些状态……在你对“我是”的觉悟中，“我是”没有任何东西，只有纯粹的存在，在那种心态下[…]，你自己就像那样融化，进入一种清晰的极乐状态。
Original Text:
In your state of dream, you clearly experience it. That is
why I said that is an important experience of it. You never truly experience
that; therefore, when you [...] you start [...] you have the I AM realization.
You are unable to maintain them for a prolonged period of time in his
experience. But in your dream, it is without content, and yet you can feel the
state of non-dual bliss; at that point, you can experience it. That is why I
say you must practice. You understand?
Chinese Translation:
在你的梦境状态中，你清晰地体验到了。这就是为什么我说这是一个重要的体验。你从未真正体验过那个；因此，当你[…]你开始[…]你有了“我是”的觉悟。你无法在他的体验中长时间维持它们。但在你的梦中，它是没有内容的，但你可以感受到非二元的极乐状态；在那一点上，你可以体验到它。这就是为什么我说你必须练习。你明白吗？
Original Text:
Mr. C: (About the "everything")
John: No, I want him to have an experience of being without
content, without any phenomena.
Me: It is totally blank, but there is a presence.
John: In the dream, it is blank, but there is this total
presence, and this pure presence must be able to maintain and sustain for a
substantial period for you to understand the bliss.
Chinese Translation:
C先生：（关于“一切”）
John：不，我想让他有一种没有内容、没有任何现象的体验。
我：完全是空白的，但有一种存在。
John：在梦中，它是空白的，但有这种完全的存在，这种纯粹的存在必须能够维持和持续相当一段时间，以便你理解这种极乐。
Original Text:
When you understand that kind of bliss, then when you
comment, then you know the people [...] then you understand them better when
you comment. Otherwise, when you comment, you are unable to very thoroughly
[...] Simpo [...] his understanding is different.
Mr. C: But different doesn't mean wrong?
John: It is not wrong.
Chinese Translation:
当你理解那种极乐时，那么当你评论时，你就知道那些人[…]，然后当你评论时，你会更好地理解他们。否则，当你评论时，你无法非常彻底地[…]。Simpo[…]他的理解是不同的。
C先生：但不同并不意味着错了吧？
John：这并没有错。
Original Text:
[...] (To me) Focus on the insight, then it becomes [...]
Certain things if you don't know, you cannot say. Unless you are a teacher that
practiced 30-50 years, you are an established teacher and face students asking
all these kinds of questions, and due to your practice, you face so many types
of phenomena. Otherwise, don't advise people on all these. Through my practice,
I had at least a few hundred of such experiences, yet I do not dare to say
[...]
Chinese Translation:
[…]（对我说）专注于彻见（Insight），然后它就会变成[…]。某些事情如果你不知道，你不能说。除非你是一位修行了30-50年的老师，你是一位资深的老师，面对学生提出的所有这些问题，并且由于你的修行，你面对了很多类型的现象。否则，不要就这些给人建议。通过我的修行，我至少有几百次这样的体验，但我不敢说[…]
Original Text:
[Recording ends.]
Chinese Translation:
[录音结束。]
Original Text:
Certain students hear the teacher's name, keep crying [...]
that kind of thing, that kind of intoxication. That kind of guru yoga... from
all over the world, from different cultures, they have that kind of experience.
It is their practice. These kinds of things, you cannot comment. You cannot,
because (you have certain insight?), go and comment on these. But if you talk
about insights, penetrating of three states, I can give you some advice.
Because these are what I am facing every day. Lucid dreams—I can comment. In
dreams, controlling yourself—these I can comment. These other phenomena, I
cannot comment. Similarly for you, don't go and comment on something that you
don't know.
Chinese Translation:
某些学生听到老师的名字，不断哭泣[…]那种事情，那种陶醉。那种上师瑜伽……来自世界各地，不同的文化，他们都有那种体验。那是他们的修行。这些事情，你不能评论。你不能，因为（你有某些彻见（Insight）？），就去评论这些。但如果你谈论彻见（Insight），渗透三种状态，我可以给你一些建议。因为这些是我每天都在面对的。清明梦——我可以评论。在梦中，控制自己——这些我可以评论。这些其他的现象，我无法评论。同样地，对你来说，不要去评论你不知道的东西。
Original Text:
[...] Say more than you know. Insight is different; insight
is that you are very clear because you see it; you can very clearly understand;
you can comment. You know, right? After anatta is very clear, you penetrate to
the dream state. Then you can control the [...] A lot of people (even after
insight) cannot do this.
Chinese Translation:
[…]说超出你所知道的。彻见（Insight）是不同的；彻见（Insight）是因为你看到了，你非常清楚；你可以非常清楚地理解；你可以评论。你知道，对吗？在无我之后，非常清晰，你渗透到梦境状态。然后你可以控制[…]。很多人（即使在彻见（Insight）之后）也无法做到这一点。
Original Text:
Me: And you said that is because of faith, sincerity.
John: Sincerity, faith, and your practice. Then you go into
the three states. Then [...] penetrate into the three states.
Chinese Translation:
我：你说那是因为信心，真诚。
John：真诚，信心，和你的修行。然后你进入三种状态。然后[…]渗透到三种状态。
Original Text:
[...] My whole body never moved because [...] There is a
type of qi ling; the whole body is moving—that is the (cult leader) Lu Sheng
Yen teaches. [...] These kinds of things, you must follow a teacher who knows.
[...] You cannot tell others more than necessary. Otherwise, others form
misunderstandings. They may think enlightened people can fly.
Chinese Translation:
[…]我的整个身体从未移动，因为[…]有一种起灵；整个身体在移动——那是（邪教领袖）卢胜彦教的。[…]这些事情，你必须跟随一位知道的老师。[…]你不能告诉别人超出必要的东西。否则，别人会产生误解。他们可能认为开悟的人会飞。
Original Text:
[...] When you practice, you will have such experiences.
Because you practice every day, you're [...] clearer than everyone; your view
is uninterrupted 24/7; it enters into the dream state—this is a very normal
thing. Then suddenly your [...] Once you go into the three states, everyone is
different. I can tell him (me/Soh) because his practice [...] but you tell
others, it becomes a misunderstanding; they say different things. You say you
do this, this, and you have this kind of experience. This is a very normal
thing. You will have that kind of quality every moment. But a person in a
dream, like in a lucid dream, it seems very strange, then he can always have
that kind of lucid dream. Then he looks into Dream Yoga. Because he had this
kind of causes and conditions.
Chinese Translation:
[…]当你练习时，你会有这样的体验。因为你每天练习，你的[…]比每个人都清晰；你的见地是24/7不间断的；它进入了梦境状态——这是非常正常的事情。然后突然你的[…]一旦你进入三种状态，每个人都不同。我可以告诉他（我/Soh），因为他的修行[…]，但你告诉别人，就会产生误解；他们说不同的事情。你说你做这个、这个，你有这种体验。这是非常正常的事情。你每时每刻都会有那种品质。但一个人在梦中，比如在清明梦中，看起来很奇怪，那么他总是可以有那种清明梦。然后他研究梦瑜伽。因为他有这种因缘。
Original Text:
At that time, I also looked into Dream Yoga because I can
control my dream; I can do what I want.
Me: Dharma Dan too.
John: Yes, Dharma Dan can also do it because he practices
Vipassana. So [...] penetrate into the dream state. [...] They are one, you
see. Then slowly you understand what is consciousness. Then after going through
for 30 years, you will surely experience these things—nothing special. Now you
are what, 20 years old? You will have many [...] experiences, so don't mystify
it.
Chinese Translation:
那时，我也研究了梦瑜伽，因为我可以控制我的梦；我可以做我想做的。
我：Dharma
Dan也是。
John：是的，Dharma
Dan也可以做到，因为他练习内观。所以[…]渗透到梦境状态。[…]它们是一体的，你看。然后你慢慢理解什么是意识。然后经过30年的历程，你肯定会体验到这些——没什么特别的。现在你多少岁，20岁？你会有很多[…]体验，所以不要神秘化它。
Original Text:
[...] Practicing Buddhism, the most important thing is to
learn how to let go. [...] Certain things that are impossible, yet someone is
able to. Like some people have very strong merit. Then the person's luck [...]
will change. And you cannot speak about logic. You are unable to use logic to
understand what causes and conditions can bring you that kind of blessings. So
don't rely on logic. Logic is based on your thinking. So I kept saying, for
merit, don't understand through knowledge—you have to go and experience.
Blessings have to be cultivated. You have to cultivate.
Chinese Translation:
[…]修行佛法，最重要的是学会如何放下。[…]某些事情是不可能的，但有人却能做到。就像有些人有很强的福报。然后这个人的运气[…]会改变。你无法用逻辑来解释。你无法用逻辑去理解什么样的因缘会带给你那种福报。所以不要依赖逻辑。逻辑是基于你的思维。所以我一直说，对于福德，不要通过知识去理解——你必须去体验。福报必须被培育。你必须去培育。
Original Text:
[...] Outside of logic, go and experience, but not to seek
after the blessings but saying in a not so nice way you want that a little
(haha), go and practice, then do, then practice, and do... It is different.
Some things cannot be explained. You have to do it. If someone keeps telling
you, and you try to use logic, you are unable to understand. That will become
your stumbling block. What humans understand is too little. You cannot say a
certain thing is [...] and yet when you do certain things, slowly and slowly
when you do, it becomes part of your practice, and you will understand because
you experience.
Chinese Translation:
[…]超越逻辑，去体验，但不是去追求福报，但说得不太好听，你有点想要那个（哈哈），去练习，然后做，然后练习，再做……这是不同的。有些事情无法解释。你必须去做。如果有人不断告诉你，而你试图用逻辑去理解，你是无法理解的。那将成为你的绊脚石。人类理解的太少了。你不能说某件事情是[…]，然而当你做某些事情时，慢慢地，当你做时，它成为你修行的一部分，你会理解，因为你体验了。
Original Text:
You can feel the logic; you can feel the force, but it is
not a logical understanding. Just like this moment of thought you cannot
control. This moment of thought and the next moment of thought—you cannot
control, and yet they are linked. This moment of thought and the next moment of
thought create the impression of thought. But this moment of thought and
previous moment of thought aren't the same—they can't be. This moment of
thought and the next moment of thought arise due to a cause and condition, but
we don't know what is the link.
Chinese Translation:
你可以感受到逻辑；你可以感受到力量，但那不是一种逻辑的理解。就像这一刻的念头你无法控制。这一刻的念头和下一刻的念头——你无法控制，然而它们是相连的。这一刻的念头和下一刻的念头创造了念头的印象。但这一刻的念头和前一刻的念头不是相同的——它们不可能是相同的。这一刻的念头和下一刻的念头是由于因缘而生起的，但我们不知道连接是什么。
Original Text:
So when you do merits, you understand you need to; it is
part of you, part of the natural process. So when you do merits, when you do
these things, a lot of things you will understand. You understand, "Oh, it
is so."
Mr. C: [...]
John: What kind of energy? Energy from where? From your
heart? From your skull? From where?
Chinese Translation:
所以当你行善时，你明白你需要这样做；这是你的一部分，自然过程的一部分。所以当你行善，当你做这些事情时，你会理解很多事情。你会明白，“哦，原来是这样。”
C先生：[…]
John：什么样的能量？能量来自哪里？来自你的心脏？来自你的头骨？来自哪里？
Original Text:
Mr. C: From everywhere. At one point in time [...] was
mistaken by others to be possessed by a ghost and brought to a Taoist medium
[...] then later I found out it was kundalini [...] so I understand this path,
but right now it is the problem with energy, so when I work, the mudras will
come, the [...] spontaneous. So it is not so convenient [...] It's a different
path [...] just like his mother, but a bit more intensive [...] phenomena but
it is spontaneous; it is very hard to [...]
Chinese Translation:
C先生：来自各处。有一段时间[…]被别人误认为是被鬼附身，被带到道教的媒介那里[…]然后后来我发现这是昆达里尼[…]所以我理解这条路，但现在是能量的问题，所以当我工作时，手印会出现，[…]自发的。所以这不太方便[…]这是一条不同的道路[…]就像他的母亲一样，但更强烈一些[…]现象，但它是自发的；这很难[…]
Original Text:
John: You have to find the right energy master. Now I also
experience energy, but it is not the same as those that make the mudra, etc.
Partly I face sensation very clearly. Then it is being amplified. The
vibration... Others won't feel it, but I feel it... in the practice.
Mr. C: I understand, so when you pass through people, you
can feel their vibrations.
Chinese Translation:
John：你必须找到正确的能量导师。现在我也体验到能量，但与那些做手印的不同。部分原因是我非常清晰地面对感觉。然后它被放大。振动……其他人感觉不到，但我感觉到了……在修行中。
C先生：我明白，所以当你经过人群时，你能感受到他们的振动。
Original Text:
John: I can feel it. I can feel energy. I can [...]
Mr. C: Will they hurt you?
John: They will not hurt me, but I can feel their energy. I
can sense the sensation. So it is not like you. Because when you practice, you
become more sensitive. So you can experience the environment, the ambience,
then you become clear... Due to the clarity [...] Just like Nikolai, you can
view the ray of light of the rainbow, etc.
Chinese Translation:
John：我能感觉到。我能感觉到能量。我可以[…]
C先生：他们会伤害你吗？
John：他们不会伤害我，但我能感觉到他们的能量。我能感受到感觉。所以这与你不同。因为当你练习时，你变得更敏感。所以你可以体验环境，氛围，然后你变得清晰……由于清晰度[…]就像尼古拉一样，你可以看到彩虹的光线等。
Original Text:
[...] For example, I go to a place. Then the place is...
Then I hear the baby sound; then I keep hearing the baby crying; then I can
feel the pain of the baby; then I say, "Oh, it is the pressure that is
making the baby in pain." You understand? I can feel the entire sensation
of that baby. Then I can keep feeling... For example, the airplane flies past,
then I can hear the sound, then I keep feeling from the sound into the
sensation, then into realizing that it is the air pressure that is making the
baby pain. Feel the [...] can feel the energy.
Chinese Translation:
[…]例如，我去一个地方。然后那个地方是……然后我听到婴儿的声音；然后我一直听到婴儿在哭；然后我能感觉到婴儿的痛苦；然后我说，“哦，是压力让婴儿感到痛苦。”你明白吗？我能感受到那个婴儿的整个感觉。然后我可以继续感觉……例如，飞机飞过，然后我能听到声音，然后我从声音感觉到感觉，然后意识到是空气压力让婴儿感到疼痛。感觉到[…]能感受到能量。
Original Text:
Mr. C: [...]
John: Simpo maybe understands your situation better.
These kinds of feelings, these kinds of energy—I just
started to practice Tai Chi, and I feel it is not bad. So you can feel the
[...] For example, your mudra keeps coming up; it is not due to your [...]
After that, you understand from moment to moment it is your past karmic
conditions bringing forth your movement; that one you have to ask some other
teachers [...] I slowly understood only eight years ago that when the mind
becomes clearer and clearer, you can sense the energy.
Chinese Translation:
C先生：[…]
John：Simpo可能更了解你的情况。
这些感觉，这些能量——我刚开始练习太极，我觉得还不错。所以你可以感觉到[…]例如，你的手印不断出现；这不是由于你的[…]之后，你明白了每一刻都是你的过去业力带来你的动作；那你必须去问其他老师[…]我直到八年前才慢慢理解，当心变得越来越清晰时，你可以感受到能量。
Original Text:
Those he (me/Soh) asked are related to the phases of
insights.
Mr. C: (Asks how much meditation a day is good)
John: To me, 45 minutes. I don't advise people to do 2-3
hours. His (my) teacher (Taiwanese Teacher Chen) does six hours a day, right?
Chinese Translation:
他（我/Soh）问的那些与彻见（Insight）的阶段有关。
C先生：（问一天冥想多久合适）
John：对我来说，45分钟。我不建议人们做2-3小时。他的（我的）老师（台湾的陈老师）每天做6小时，对吗？
Original Text:
Me: I was listening to an audio last night; he said he used
to sit days and nights where everything—the body, self—is forgotten into
Samadhi, and he only gets up to answer people's Dharma questions in short
periods of time before going back to his day and night Samadhi. Just like
Ramana Maharshi. But later on, he stopped doing it as he realized it is not so
normal; as a Bodhisattva, one should not act abnormally but behave normally
like others.
John: I tell you not to because... You see, I always focus
on penetrating insights. I do not advise certain types of phenomena that cannot
be explained [...]. After certain hours, if you practice for prolonged periods
months after months, you will have some weird experiences that are beyond
anyone. That one you may have to ask his teacher (my teacher, Teacher Chen),
because he sits six hours a day.
Chinese Translation:
我：我昨晚听了一个音频，他说他过去日夜打坐，一切——身体、自我——都忘记在三昧中，他只在短时间内起身回答人们的佛法问题，然后回到他的日夜三昧中。就像拉玛那·马哈希一样。但后来，他停止了这样做，因为他意识到这不太正常；作为菩萨，一个人不应该表现得异常，而应该像其他人一样正常行事。
John：我告诉你不要这样做，因为……你看，我总是专注于渗透的彻见（Insight）。我不建议某些无法解释的现象[…]。在一定的时间后，如果你连续数月长时间练习，你会有一些超出任何人的奇怪体验。那你可能要去问他的老师（我的老师，陈老师），因为他每天坐六小时。
Original Text:
After insight into non-duality, you don't need so much
meditation, but you still need to have some meditation, a stillness, but not
for certain motives [...]. So I always advise 45 minutes to get into that
calmness. For non-duality, it is important not to have any subject and object
split from the beginning, even after you penetrate; it is important for you to
meditate until you have that clarity, then your insight can arise.
Chinese Translation:
在对非二元性的彻见（Insight）之后，你不需要那么多的冥想，但你仍然需要一些冥想，一种静止，但不是出于某些动机[…]。所以我总是建议45分钟来进入那种平静。对于非二元性，重要的是从一开始就不要有任何主客体的分裂，即使在你渗透之后；对你来说，冥想直到你有了那种清晰度是很重要的，然后你的彻见（Insight）才能升起。
Original Text:
[...] Like, for example, your case [...] you have certain
penetration of insight, then you [...]
[Recording ends.]
Chinese Translation:
[…]例如，在你的情况下[…]你有某些彻见（Insight）的渗透，然后你[…]
[录音结束。]
以上是您提供的对话的完整翻译，按照您的要求，每个段落都包含英文原文和对应的中文翻译。如有进一步需求，请随时告诉我。
Original Text:
Realization: (?)
John: Then it is ok. (?) Once a day. Because when you (?),
now for me (to enter Samadhi, it is) very fast. Very very fast. In terms of
seconds, means in a state of nondual, (...forgotten body, self?). Means any
moment (entering into Samadhi) it is very fast.
Chinese Translation:
Realization：（？）
John：那么可以。（？）一天一次。因为当你（？），现在对我来说（进入三昧）非常快，非常非常快。以秒来计算，意味着处于非二元的状态，（……忘记身体、自我？）。意味着任何时刻（进入三昧）都非常快。
Original Text:
Mr. C: So your 45 minutes it is truly 45 minutes. Some
people sit for 45 minutes (but aren’t really sitting as their minds are
wandering).
John: ... Less than a minute I can enter into Samadhi where
my mind, my body, etc., is forgotten. (?) Because I sit for very long, I sit
for (30 years?) so my body is accustomed to it. But wandering thoughts will
always be there. Like when you hear with clarity a sound, you totally forget
(?) all images of self, then very easy to (?) insight (is one thing), to settle
your mind is another. Like for example him (me/Soh), he will think of going to
forums, answering Facebook, his mind cannot calm down. You must have that taste
of (peace? Bliss?), then it becomes... That is practice. If you don’t practice,
it is very difficult. And there must be a willingness to let go. So after your
insight, you must still practice. There must be a willingness to let go of it yourself,
of your mind, your body, your attachments, then it becomes (?) letting go of
(?) letting go completely. This requires practice. Not only must you practice,
your view must be correct. For example, if you keep thinking inherently, then
your... (?) thinking solidly, inherently there, then slowly you will detach.
Chinese Translation:
C先生：所以你的45分钟是真的45分钟。有些人坐45分钟（但他们的心在游荡，实际上并没有真正坐着）。
John：……不到一分钟，我就可以进入一种身心等被忘却的三昧。（？）因为我坐了很长时间，我坐了（30年？），所以我的身体习惯了。但妄念总会存在。就像当你清晰地听到一个声音，你完全忘记了（？）所有自我的形象，那么很容易（？）彻见（Insight）（是一回事），安定你的心是另一回事。比如他（我/Soh），他会想着上论坛、回复Facebook，他的心无法平静。你必须尝到那种（平静？极乐？），然后它就会……那就是练习。如果你不练习，这是非常困难的。而且必须有放下的意愿。所以在你的彻见（Insight）之后，你仍然必须练习。必须有你自己放下的意愿，放下你的心，你的身体，你的执着，然后它变成（？）放下（？）完全放下。这需要练习。不仅要练习，你的见地必须正确。比如，如果你一直固有地思考，那么你的……（？）坚定地、固有地在那里，那么你会慢慢地脱离。
Original Text:
Then there is the experience that there is willingness to
let go non-dually, then your mind, your body, and your spirit (?)—that is
important, that is what I am telling you. So if you keep telling people that
you self-liberate, I say no, (?) because every day you are still (thinking) of
answering forums, doing Facebook, doing this and that, MSN, etc. So you cannot
(?) due to dependently originate, it is empty, (?) cannot understand what
dependently originate, is nothing substantial. The mindstream is a letting-go
mindstream... The mindstream is still a holding mindstream because the view is
unable to (?).
Chinese Translation:
然后会有一种体验，就是有非二元地放下的意愿，那么你的心、你的身体和你的精神（？）——这很重要，这就是我告诉你的。所以如果你一直告诉别人你自行解脱了，我会说不，（？）因为你每天仍然在（思考）回答论坛、上Facebook、做这个那个、MSN等等。所以你不能（？）由于缘起性，它是空的，（？）无法理解什么是缘起，没有任何实质。心流是一个放下的心流……心流仍然是一个执着的心流，因为见地无法（？）。
Original Text:
... The mind is unable to rest. ... I have many things, a
lot of people are bothering me, (?) etc., but when it comes to talk, I must let
go, I must embrace this situation. You must come into this environment and you
let go (?). When you are in this environment (...) don't think about your
things, you must let go completely, (?) more important, you must have a view
that is a worldview. With that worldview and your experience, then you let go
non-dually, then (?) you will keep letting go. So the bliss that you are
feeling now is not liberating. It is very blissful but it is not liberating.
Liberating requires you not to hold. Your mind must hold onto nothing. Whatever
dependently originates (?), because of your contemplation, then you are
releasing. You can keep talking about self-liberating but you are unable to
self-liberate because your view and experience and realization (?), you have
the view but your experience now is not enough. Once you got the experience and
you got the view, then you realize what the view is talking about. You got the
view and keep talking about it, but you can't reach that realization. There is
realization of anatta, the view, the realization. Emptiness requires you... You
keep telling people insubstantial, the purpose is for your mind to be
groundless, non-established, to be self-releasing. So you must be able to let
go. (?) Like total exertion, it is easier for you to go into total exertion.
But you are unable to let go. Letting go requires you to practice. This is what
I want you to practice. Your experience is blissful but not liberating.
Chinese Translation:
……心无法安顿。……我有很多事情，很多人烦扰我，（？）等等，但当涉及到交谈时，我必须放下，我必须拥抱这种情况。你必须进入这种环境，然后你放下（？）。当你在这种环境中（……）不要想着你的事情，你必须完全放下，（？）更重要的是，你必须有一个世界观的见地。有了那个世界观和你的体验，然后你非二元地放下，然后（？）你会继续放下。所以你现在感受到的极乐并不是解脱。它非常极乐，但不是解脱。解脱要求你不执着。你的心必须不执着于任何东西。无论什么缘起，（？）因为你的观照，然后你在释放。你可以不断地谈论自行解脱，但你无法自行解脱，因为你的见地和体验和觉悟（？），你有见地，但你现在的体验还不够。一旦你有了体验并有了见地，那么你就会明白见地所谈论的是什么。你有了见地并不断谈论它，但你无法达到那种觉悟。无我的觉悟、见地、觉悟。空性要求你……你不断告诉人们无实质，其目的是让你的心无基，无所依，能够自我释放。所以你必须能够放下。（？）像全力以赴，对你来说更容易进入全力以赴。但你无法放下。放下需要你去练习。这就是我想让你练习的。你的体验是极乐的，但不是解脱的。
Original Text:
Mr. C: He is still very young, (?)
John: He is very young, he needs to go through life, (?)
spending his parents' money he doesn’t feel the pain, but when he earns money
and loses his money, he feels the pain.
Mr. C: If he is too young (?)
Chinese Translation:
C先生：他还很年轻，（？）
John：他很年轻，他需要经历生活，（？）花父母的钱他感觉不到痛苦，但当他赚钱然后失去钱时，他会感到痛苦。
C先生：如果他太年轻（？）
Original Text:
John: You have to use your life experience to understand
(?). But at a certain stage you will not need to (?). You already have that
taste of total sensation, then you do not even require your mind content, you
don't even require a view, it is just the experience that releases itself. Then
when you meet anything, you also know. Then when you (?) reach a certain stage,
(?). Right now I am unable to be like some people who are unable to let go. It
is very difficult to meet someone who is able to let go completely. Only one
who has deep wisdom is able to let go. That cannot be an ordinary person. He
may not be special (?), but he has especially great wisdom. You see, (?) your
relationship with your children, relationship with (….) is a form of
attachment. But letting go is a form of natural attitude to the world. For
example, for my child, he brings me many problems and headaches, but you can
have no attachments. You can have no expectation of whatever. But when you say
about no expectation… you say a lot of ‘no…’ (?), ultimately it is just your
understanding of emptiness of whatever things that arise including your
relationships. (?) So when your view embraces, when you see relationships, it
is just so; when you see the formation of phenomena, it is just so. Then your
mind is naturally able to release. When you see phenomena and (?) is a form of
cause and condition relationship. When you see the cause and fruit, it is a
causally produced phenomena. The mind is able to let go. … The purest sensation
you come in anatta, this thought, dependently originates and is empty. So I
kept saying what you (?) been through is not necessarily liberating. Liberation
requires you to have another (?) clear and vivid but it is letting go entirely.
So for example ….(?) When I sit here, I let go completely.
Chinese Translation:
John：你必须用你的生活经验去理解（？）。但在某个阶段，你将不需要（？）。你已经有了那种整体感觉的滋味，那么你甚至不需要你的心的内容，你甚至不需要见地，它只是体验自我释放。然后当你遇到任何事情，你也知道。然后当你（？）达到某个阶段，（？）。现在我无法像一些无法放下的人那样。要遇到一个能够完全放下的人是非常困难的。只有拥有深刻智慧的人才能放下。那不可能是普通人。他可能并不特别（？），但他有特别伟大的智慧。你看，（？）你与孩子的关系，与（……）的关系，是一种执着的形式。但放下是一种对世界的自然态度。例如，对于我的孩子，他给我带来了许多问题和头痛，但你可以没有执着。你可以对任何事情没有期望。但当你谈论没有期望……你说了很多“没有……”（？），最终这只是你对任何升起之物的空性的理解，包括你的关系。（？）所以当你的见地包容，当你看到关系时，就是这样；当你看到现象的形成时，就是这样。然后你的心自然能够释放。当你看到现象和（？）是一种因缘关系。当你看到因和果，它是一个因缘产生的现象。心能够放下。……你在无我中得到的最纯粹的感觉，这个思想，缘起而空。所以我一直说你（？）经历的并不一定是解脱。解脱需要你有另一个（？）清晰和生动，但它是完全放下的。例如……（？）当我坐在这里，我完全放下。
Original Text:
Some people are able to do it, some people are unable to.
Some people are able to do it when they are born. Just like Pathie, so in this
respect she is wiser than me. She has let go. To her, all these are not
important. So to her mind she has very little (…); so for some, they have such
wisdom when they are born. They are able to let go. When they are born they
have this kind of wisdom and they are…
… But I am unable to reach this. Some people when they are
born, they are naturally compassionate, then when I see them I feel I am not as
compassionate as them. Some people are naturally very sharp, some people are
not.
Chinese Translation:
有些人能够做到，有些人无法做到。有些人一出生就能够做到。就像Pathie，所以在这方面她比我更有智慧。她已经放下。对她来说，所有这些都不重要。所以对她的心来说，她几乎没有（……）；所以对一些人来说，他们在出生时就有这样的智慧。他们能够放下。当他们出生时，他们就有这种智慧，他们是……
……但我无法达到这一点。有些人当他们出生时，他们天生富有同情心，那么当我看到他们时，我觉得我不如他们富有同情心。有些人天生非常敏锐，有些人则不是。
Original Text:
Mr. C: But for him (me/Soh) to have such insight, it is… (?)
John: He is quite special in this area (of insight). For
other areas I am not sure. For this area he is more special. What I needed
20/15 years, I do not know why he is able to accomplish it in 1+ years.
Mr. C: (?)
Chinese Translation:
C先生：但对他（我/Soh）来说，有这样的彻见（Insight），是……（？）
John：他在这个领域（彻见（Insight））相当特别。对于其他领域我不确定。在这个领域他更特别。我需要20/15年的东西，我不知道为什么他能在一年多的时间里完成。
C先生：（？）
Original Text:
John: ... I had very good experience at 17... When I
realized I AMness, I go (Ti Guan), every day I sleep with Indians, go Baha'i
Faith (?), etc., Ramakrishna, etc., the (?) Gita, Krishna Consciousness also. I
always go there and sing, I never studied. (?)
Chinese Translation:
John：……我在17岁时有非常好的体验……当我意识到“我是”时，我去（提关？），每天我和印度人一起睡，去巴哈伊信仰（？）等等，拉玛克里希纳等等，（？）《吉他》，克里希纳意识也是。我总是去那里唱歌，我从未学习过。（？）
Original Text:
(?) In a state of purity it is very rare. (?) If you want to
experience the joy then you can appreciate the moment. People are always
thinking of doing more, speaking more, but... Our mouth is the worst; sickness
enters through the mouth; words that hurt people come from the mouth, (...)
etc., all the lies, (...) from the mouth. Business is different. When you say
something exaggerating, it still has to be exaggerated some more, you have to
lie, (...) for example, if you say you do not want to involve (…?) there is no
choice since you have to do these things. You can try your best to avoid (?),
if you do not do, the boss asks you why you did not meet the target.
Chinese Translation:
（？）处于纯净的状态是非常罕见的。（？）如果你想体验喜悦，那么你可以欣赏当下。人们总是想着做更多，说更多，但……我们的嘴是最糟糕的；疾病从口入；伤人的话从口出，（……）等等，所有的谎言，（……）都来自口。生意是不同的。当你说一些夸张的话，它仍然需要被更加夸大，你必须撒谎，（……）例如，如果你说你不想涉及（……？），但你别无选择，因为你必须做这些事情。你可以尽力避免（？），如果你不做，老板会问你为什么没有达到目标。
Original Text:
Jui asks: (? Question about Samadhi)
John: Actually what is more important is that the background
is completely gone. Then when the background is completely gone, you do not
have a behind, only the sound. Then your experience becomes most direct, cannot
be more direct. Then when you hear the basketball sound, bum bum bum... only.
You understand what I mean? Initially, even if you have seen through, there
will always be a tendency—you and the basketball. I ever went through a period
where I thought that I will not have that problem anymore. After about three
months later, it comes back. Then I wondered why does it come back after I have
seen through? Then after that, the tendency (comes back?). For yours (me/Soh)
it is quite clear, because lucid dream until one can control the three states,
it is quite deep already. After the initial insight one needs 4-5 years to have
that kind of calibre, you see? So some people are different. So it is
sufficiently deep into the mind-body tendency. For me, three months after (?),
it has a dual sensation, then after still a period (?) after.
Chinese Translation:
Jui 问：（？关于三昧的问题）
John：实际上更重要的是，背景完全消失了。然后当背景完全消失时，你没有背后，只有声音。然后你的体验变得最直接，不能更直接。然后当你听到篮球的声音，砰砰砰……仅此而已。你明白我的意思吗？最初，即使你已经看穿了，总会有一种倾向——你和篮球。我曾经经历过一段时期，认为我不会再有那个问题了。大约三个月后，它又回来了。然后我想，为什么在我看穿之后它又回来了？然后之后，倾向（又回来？）。对于你（我/Soh）来说，这是相当清楚的，因为清明梦直到一个人可以控制三种状态，已经相当深了。在初始彻见（Insight）之后，需要4-5年才能有那种水平，你明白吗？所以有些人是不同的。所以它足够深入到身心的倾向。对我来说，三个月后（？），有一种二元的感觉，然后在之后的一个时期（？）之后。
Original Text:
Jui: I always hear people say when you see one object you
are like the object... But in my experience...
John: In your experience now, your self at the behind will
be gone. But you are unable to reach completely mind-to-object
(one-pointedness). But your behind disappears. But to zhuan zhu yi ge (专注一个, be absorbed in one [object]) you
are unable to reach; that requires Samadhi state. That is, that behind is gone,
but you are one-pointed into one object, then with view you will experience
maha experience, total exertion. He (me/Soh) is also the same, the behind is
gone, no more self, only the sound, but there is no self, there is just this,
there is just that. That is because the insight has arisen, but concentration
(?) my way is different. Before insight of anatta I had decades of practicing
meditation, then I AM, then meditation, then I AM. My practice is like that.
(?) But for you guys, you see clearly first, the behind is gone and your
experience becomes very clear and vivid, and yet you are unable to concentrate.
So you must understand that concentration is different. Peacefulness and
releasing is (different), clear vivid awareness is also different. It requires
different insights and practice. You still have to meditate, it is impossible
that (?), you should be in this stage, you are very clear, the click click
sound is felt to be very vivid, then one day you will have total exertion
feeling, but you must practice releasing and concentration. When the mind is
discursive and wandering, you need practice. Your mindfulness/thought needs to
be practiced. You need to have a stillness/Samadhi. (To me/Soh) Your stillness
is still not enough. Your mind is still having thought after thought, you are
unable to have stillness. But your insight is able to reach no-self. You are
still unable to reach stillness and releasing. It is not a matter of saying
then you can reach it, it requires practice.
Chinese Translation:
Jui：我总是听人们说，当你看到一个对象时，你就像那个对象……但在我的体验中……
John：在你现在的体验中，你背后的自我将消失。但你无法将心完全专注于所观境上（专注一境）。但你的背后消失了。但要专注一个（专注一个对象），你无法达到；那需要三昧的状态。也就是说，背后消失了，但你专注于一个对象，然后有了见地，你将体验到“摩诃”的体验，全力以赴。他（我/Soh）也是一样，背后消失了，没有自我，只有声音，但没有自我，只有这个，只有那个。那是因为彻见（Insight）已经升起，但专注力（？）我的方式是不同的。在无我的彻见（Insight）之前，我有几十年的禅修练习，然后“我是”，然后禅修，然后“我是”。我的练习就是这样的。（？）但对你们来说，你们首先清晰地看到，背后消失了，你的体验变得非常清晰和生动，但你无法专注。所以你必须明白，专注是不同的。平静和放下是（不同的），清晰生动的觉知也是不同的。它需要不同的彻见（Insight）和练习。你仍然必须冥想，不可能（？），你应该处于这个阶段，你非常清楚，咔哒咔哒的声音被感觉得非常生动，然后有一天你会有全力以赴的感觉，但你必须练习放下和专注。当心散乱和游荡时，你需要练习。你的正念/思想需要被练习。你需要有一个静止/三昧。（对我/Soh说）你的静止仍然不够。你的心仍然一个念头接着一个念头，你无法有静止。但你的彻见（Insight）能够达到无我。你仍然无法达到静止和放下。这不是说说就能达到的，它需要练习。
Original Text:
(Comments by Soh: Before my realization of anatta I would do
samatha and enter into jhanic bliss [samadhi bliss but not resting in nature of
mind], afterwards it is more towards the bliss of no-self luminosity, yet
samadhi is still vital.)
Me: Best way is to practice Vipassana?
John: Vipassana... When it becomes non-conceptual and
non-dual, it is even more difficult. Like for you, your insight is there, there
is no self, yet when you sit you are unable to reach it. Because you need to
focus. You need to focus on your breath, (otherwise?) unable to reach it. For
normal people they are able to reach it even easier. For you it is somewhat
more difficult. So I always tell you, for example, for you and him the way of
entering is by clear luminosity... Feel as clear as possible. For example, when
you breathe, feel your breath entirely. So you feel very very clear, just this
breath you know. Then you feel the vividness. It is easier to enter this way.
Chinese Translation:
（Soh评论：在我觉悟无我之前，我会做奢摩他并进入禅乐（三昧之乐，但不是安住于心的本性），之后更倾向于无我光明的极乐，但三昧仍然至关重要。）
我：最好的方式是练习内观吗？
John：内观……当它变得非概念化和非二元时，甚至更困难。就像你一样，你的彻见（Insight）在那里，没有自我，但当你坐着时，你无法达到它。因为你需要专注。你需要专注于你的呼吸，（否则？）无法达到。对于普通人来说，他们甚至更容易达到。对你来说，有点更困难。所以我总是告诉你，例如，对于你和他，进入的方式是通过清晰的光明……感觉尽可能清晰。例如，当你呼吸时，完全感觉你的呼吸。这样你感觉非常非常清晰，只是这个你知道的呼吸。然后你感觉到生动性。以这种方式更容易进入。
Original Text:
(Comments by Soh: Before my realization of anatta I would do
samatha and enter into jhanic bliss, afterwards it is more towards the bliss of
no-self luminosity, yet samadhi is still vital.)
Me: So you are advising Anapanasati?
John: Yes, of course, then you do many times. But when you
do many times, you are not counting. Don't count. Just feel the entire
sensation of the breath. You are just that sensation of your breath. Then you
are so clear with your entire breath. That whole aircon that touches your
nostrils, then going into your lungs. It is just this sensation. This is what
we call breath. So you keep on doing. You are very aware of it. Actually, it is
not you are very aware of lah. This is what I call awareness, and the whole
thing is awareness, there is no somebody aware. It is just breath. Then slowly
you will have this (Samadhi?), you need to keep doing.
Chinese Translation:
（Soh评论：在我觉悟无我之前，我会做奢摩他并进入禅乐，之后更倾向于无我光明的极乐，但三昧仍然至关重要。）
我：所以你建议安那般那念（出入息念）？
John：是的，当然，然后你做很多次。但当你做很多次时，你不在数数。不要数。只是感觉整个呼吸的感觉。你就是你的呼吸的那个感觉。然后你对你的整个呼吸非常清晰。整个触碰你鼻孔的空调空气，然后进入你的肺部。就是这种感觉。这就是我们称之为呼吸的。所以你不断地做。你非常觉知它。实际上，不是你非常觉知啦。这就是我所说的觉知，整个就是觉知，没有某个在觉知的人。只是呼吸。然后慢慢地你会有这个（三昧？），你需要不断地做。
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