Left to right: me, truth, john/thusness, dharmadhatu, jui, Mr. C. Not in photo: realization

Notes: Someone asked what is total exertion.
Thusness: "Exertion is after the realization of seamless interdependence, the practitioner feels the universe giving its best to make this moment possible. Read the dogen of rolling the boat."

Dogen: "Birth is just like riding in a boat. You raise the sails, row with the oar, and steer. Although you row, the boat gives you a ride, and without the boat you couldn't ride. But you ride in the boat and your riding makes the boat what it is… When you ride in a boat, your body and mind and the environs together are the undivided activity of the boat. The entire earth and the entire sky are both the undivided activity of the boat."

"With going the boundless sky goes, with coming the entire earth comes. This is everyday mind."

Thomas cleary: "The passage from the Blue Cliff Record alludes to the Kegon doctrine that phenomena do not exist individually but interdependently, that the manifold depends on the unit and the unit on the manifold. A refinement of this principle in Kegon philosophy is called the mystery of principal and satellites: this means that every element in a conditional nexus can be looked upon as the hub, or "principal," whereupon all the other elements become the cooperative conditions, or "satellites"-hence all elements are at once "principal" and "satellite" to all other elements. It is the mutuality, the complementarity, of the elements which makes them functionally what they are. Dogen presents this idea by likening life to riding in a boat-one is naught without the boat, yet it is one's riding in it that makes it in effect a "boat." Furthermore, "the boat is the world-even the sky, the water, and the shore are circumstances of the boat. . . . The whole earth and all of space are workings of the boat."
Badly transcribed by AEN.
Pathie (huang jing rui, a friend) - started the 84000 translation (a project to translate the whole Tibetan canon into English), it is a 100 year work and requires great commitment. DKR doesnt really wanted it at first. So far quite successful.
John: I like Australia very much. Their air is not the same as Singapore. In Singapore wherever you go it is buildings, … once you go Australia you feel the air… woah… it is a very suitable place for retirees but not for busy people.
John wanted to retreat into an isolated place in the mountains/forests. He has been trying to find a good location. He also checked if he can donate to build the entire monastery (in Thailand?), and in the process have a room/place for himself undisturbed by anyone including the monks. They told him that is ok.
[talks with truthz about a friend who drinks for business entertainment] John doesn’t drink, even if he goes for entertainment for business purposes he orders tea instead.
Since I had penetrating insights, it is difficult for me to find a teacher. But still it is important to find a teacher.
Since I have just gotten out of army, I have to spend more time to meditate everyday. When I get older it will be difficult to have that sort of clarity/purity as the mind gets involved in many things.
A075 recording starts:
…the self-proclaimed Dzogchen teacher Mr. J starts to listen to him (me/Soh) because he was unable to see the remainder of substantialist nondual. So when he realized the remainder, he is unable to understand that it is just a recognition. You can experience awareness wherever you are, it means you recognize, but you do not know how to (?) Kyle Dixon and him had a conversation, you can put inside the blog. In Buddhism there is no such thing as conscious, subconscious, all these types of things. There is just six sets of consciousness that dependently originates (?). (me: subconscious is the 8th consciousness in yogacara?) That is just a figure of speech. You cannot separate consciousness and subconscious, because you are dividing them. In Buddhism there is ignorance. The fact that there is ignorance means, ignorance itself is already a very deep bond. You do not have to say that they (surface?) and then subconscious. By the very fact that you are ignorant, it means you are deeply blinded. It is nothing about the surface. It is already (?) without beginning, without end. It is nothing about the surface, it is deeply latent. You do not need to conjure out a separate subconsciousness.

What Mr. J cannot understand is that he is still very much attached to the space behind, although he clearly sees, he cannot overcome. (Also said later that I and jui are in a ‘clean slate’ so it is faster). That is the problem. Let’s say for example I were to press very hard, I think something that is difficult for earth (…) When you feel something that is solid, something that is wind like your breath, you feel sound, then you feel scenery, all these (?), so there are few types of experience. One is that normally you have object, self, and then subject. So you say oh, this is solid. So what is your experience now? What is solid?
Me: Nothing?
John: Smack you, nothing!
Me: (…) 
John: It is just a dependently originated sensation, but that is intellectual. What is your direct experience after you experience anatta and total experience, what is it? Lets say I press this, solid, solidness, what is that? It is the total activity of this moment. Your entire sensation… so I press this, feel the solidness, feels very solid. For you now, what I say is that, this solidness that I press is very very hard, your entire body mind must be transcended into this experience of solidness. its just this dependently originated.
…For example in anatta - there is no self, just thoughts, just this and that, it’s only the vividness. I’m telling you the next phase is to transcend the entire body-mind into the activity.
For example when I touch this, the body mind is totally forgotten into this moment of activity, this sensation, this solidness. When you feel the solidness it is a D.O.-ed (me: seeing it as process?) viewing as a process is different, I am talking about the totality of this sensation. This, you can call it anything, I don’t care. When you hear a sound, it is not this sensation right? Totally different right? When the mind, body, and what is totally gone, transcended (?) in anatta, this sound and this different (?) scenery, is different. This arising breathe sensation and this (?) is it the same?
Me: (…)
John: No, but that is intellectual. What I want you to experience is the total sensation. What you said is correct. Like for example, in anatta experience, there is just thought, there is just this. one can go into two ways: one way is dzogchen way, everything is empty, cannot be found/located, nothing inherent, self-liberated.
The other thing you have (keep on asking me?) what is the experience of maha, the total exertion. So I’m telling you this entire activity of total hardness is the entire activity, dependently originate, total exertion. (?) When you hear sound, there is only sound. But (?) and this sound is different from this sensation. You cannot only say, you must experience the full and totality of this experience is different from sound, and your thoughts. Understand? For example you talk about earth, solidness, (?) and the breath, this entire breath, this entire sensation of breath and when you hear a piece of music and this totality of this sensation of hardness is all different. Correct? In the experience of anatta you do not transcend yourself into this entire activity.
Me: (…)
John: What I’m saying is, what is this sensation? Means the totality of feeling this sensation. Now u have access, but the perfection of this thing (?) totality of this sensation, (?)... continue to experience it. That is what I call, you can clarity of (?) of this experience.
When you penetrate and understand that there is no self, there is no one behind, just one thought, and another thought and another thought, u can directly experience things. Correct or not? You can directly experience things. Therefore lets say for example, how are u going to tell Mr. J the next step? Mr. J is very clear lah, very clear. For example he said oh im suffering, but there is no one suffering, just suffering. so the entire suffering has equal taste. u can feel it, u're happy, u're not suffering. ... ... u can feel it but u do not liberate. .... people say awareness is the space behind, the one that is behind, you know its wrong. But if you think that there is no need to do anything, ... there is no unconditioned awareness, only conditioned experiences, right? so you say, there is difference between everything is awareness, and awareness is only everything. so u see there is no remainder. But this is only recognition of what is awareness. u no longer get tricked into the unaffected background self. After this recognition what r u supposed to do?
Lets say for example you have forgotten yourself completely. (?) Mr. J is saying that if I do not have the idea of self and separation, it is (?) liberated already. He is saying if there is totally no self projecting, non dual already, even if he feels pain and suffering, there is no suffering. Why? Then you (?) but your (?) experience is like that right? Why?

(Says he did not expect so many people to come, and his intention of meeting me is to ask me these questions)

…in primordial suchness, in theravada, five aggregates (transforms) to eighteen dhatus, you are very clear lah.... (?)… another question. in this case there cannot be mental formation right... for the five aggregates that has transformed into the eighteen dhatus. Correct? So this is the understanding currently that you should be liberated, right? Currently, roughly your understanding is like this. When you realize anatta, what is nirvana to you? It is the transformation of these (five skandhas), eliminating the [mental] formations, to become the eighteen dhatus, correct? You should be very clear about this now, right? Now, what happens if you continue to have views (?) you continue to have thought? Does it mean you cannot have (?) Malcolm says no, you cannot have, right? (Update 2024: Malcolm's latest view is that Dzogchen agrees with Tsongkhapa that Buddha has conceptual thoughts but are free from grasping, a seeming change of view from a decade ago)
…currently your understanding of the perfection of (anatta?) is to transform it into the eighteen dhatus. With your current understanding, is this necessary? In order to gain true liberation. You must be very very clear. Is it necessary? So that in hearing just sound, u cannot have any other conceptual thought right? when you hear sound right? thats why i say ... is it possible to have this uninterrupted, and is this necessary? This is what I am trying to tell you, you must understand whether it is necessary or not. I cannot tell u its not necessary lah, its impossible, etc. ... currently after you experience anatta, you see ur experience there is no such problem, then you say i have to be like that, total transformation (of five skandhas into eighteen dhatus), anatta non-conceptuality not advaita non conceptuality, the question I ask is, is this necessary, that’s why I tell you to take out (the misleading posts I made)... so is this necessary or not? to me, it is not necessary. it is not necessary then what must u do?

it is not necessary to be non conceptual. but there is two things that you must understand. If you see that behind there is nothing, there is only thought, and when you think that thought itself, its empty, it liberates. You must have these two experiences, it will liberate. So you don’t have to be non-conceptual – when a thought arises and you look behind, there is nobody. when u look at thought itself, it is empty, (and self-liberates?). so u dun have to remain (?) non conceptual. that is what you have to practice now... the twofold emptiness. means i dont want u to always think u have to be non conceptual. dont have to maintain the non ...

me: in fact it is not possible especially when are are at work, etc
John: u cant. ur practice shld be to look behind there is nothing, ?? when u look into the nature of thought itself, its empty, ? the empty nature of whatever arises (self liberates?)

in anatta your experience becomes clear and vivid and then non conceptual. but i do not want u to misunderstand that u have to be non conceptual to get liberated. but malcolm (loppon namdrol) says u have to, right? (Update 2024: Malcolm's latest view is that Dzogchen agrees with Tsongkhapa that Buddha has conceptual thoughts but are free from grasping, a seeming change of view from a decade ago) when u understand anatta, ur experience is already direct, but sometimes when u are doing work its not possible, right? but if u recognise at that moment, behind there is nothing, and u look into the empty nature of whatever arises.. you will release. that is the next step u have to take. this is different from.. so first of all I AM tells u the background. u bring it to the foreground. but this is very blissful, very vivid, samadhi etc, it is blissful but it is not liberating. because to let go itself is not about blissful and vivid. like now you can be very very blissful and vivid but it is not liberating. for liberating u look from behind there is nothing and when u look at the nature of thought it is empty, then it will get released. But in this process of looking, u need (right) view, u need to have a …. Lets say for example my mind is totally transcended when I touch (?) my entire body-mind transcend into that total sensation.
(?)…practice when u see him is just a dependently originated manifestation. ur mind must be able to release. so the view is very important. its very different for example if i were to bring i say this thing, its very clear, very very clear. That is the experience of anatta. but if i say that this taste itself, if i do not have a body, ? and everything, this sensation, the totality of this sensation cannot inherently exist, right? it is a dependently originated manifestation. does it bring about a release, to u? (no?) until you understand that u look at something they dependently originates, (?) by understanding that that u will release urself... (?) like for example, u look at a rainbow, it his looks real, but it is not real, it is nothing substantial. so this entire understanding, this view itself is releasing. longer and longer when u see things, ur mind releases and it becomes boundless. That is the practice you must know and practice. (?)

you think that this is very very real, just like people experience that I AM – it is so vivid, it is so real, just I----- so real! But its just a state, a dependently originated state. Its so real, nobody can deny the I AM, but it is just a dependently originated experience. so this experience is so real, so solid but it is a dependent originated (?). so ur mind realizing that, release releases. You have to practice.

Like for example, this money I got it ah, (fa da?) already ah, and you say ah, money is (?) don’t think too much about it, right, then your mind releases. For example, no matter how you tell right, money is still very important what, definitely very important lah, so ur mind cannot be release. What im saying is that can u see the empty nature of whatever arises, ur mind is released. it must go into u. just like u can tell people anatta anatta, yet they cannot feel that its so clear, so bright, so like that ? when u talk about emptiness, can u find that it is releasing? No point talking you see. u must understand it, and then u realize it, then ur mind releases. That is called groundless ground, the mind becomes groundless, because every experience is empty, every experience is a dependently originated manifestation. If you truly see the empty nature then your every experience must be releasing what. so can u see that by penetrating the empty nature of whatever arises, it releases holding, ground, ? ur mind must be like ? anatta, sound is very very clear, very vivid. ? when u look into this sound, its empty. ur mind releases itself. So if u do not find that it releases, that means ur gong li (skill) is not enough. therefore u cannot say that u dont need the view. when u keep on saying, u dont understand, but there are some ppl like those lamas, when they say its different, their mind is liberated. ... seeing the empty nature of whatever arises, your mind liberates. … emotion, when u realise emotion, you look for behind, and then you look at the nature of emotion, your mind releases itself. (?) so there is three different parts. So I say for example, it is very vivid, very clear. The other one is total exertion. The third thing is it liberates (?), the three experiences that I told you lah. That you must experience it, then you talk about that.

(to truth), don’t think too much about money. Don’t stress too much in human life. You see when we are young, we fear many things, but when we walk towards the end we realize that life don’t have to be so full of anxieties, so (?). Because you keep thinking (?) about your future. And ur boss also give you many targets etc, you must have the way to (…) … you must know how to face it. This you cannot meet the target, how you face it? Don’t be too attached, otherwise your stress is very great, ...

Mr. C ask: just now u said about the emptiness, the nothingness,
John: no, nothingness is not emptiness. Emptiness means for example, whatever things that u see, does not have something with substantial core,
Mr. C: i saw it, but after a while the view is (turned?), then it becomes everything. so i dunnu ... after emptiness there is the view that is just "everything", totally different from emptiness. Like for example when I see you, I see that you are just Me, don’t know how to explain. When i see the sky, the clouds, its like part of my body (?)

John: dzogchen calls that ur nature. i call that ur essence, that is luminosity. Luminosity at the most complete level, the self is forgotten, when self is forgotten, whatever u experience is just that thing. but this can be a form of what we call an experience. but when a person arises the insight and penetrates clearly and see, that bond will be gone... and actually, fully and completely luminous. Then you don’t need to (?) there is always ? like now?, it is an insight, a total shift of perception.
When a person sees so clearly (by insight), one will surely enter a time 60-90 days, then suddenly its (comes back ?). when I first saw it, I understood very very clearly. But he (referring to me) is unique, his is after dunnu how many months it becomes (effortless). For me, after a few years I still cannot. then one day i see someone playing basketball, i closed my eye, i hear the sound of basketball, then he bounce the ball bum bum bum, then suddenly the body mind just drop. then when he bounce the basketball it feels like its my heart beat. thats (?). there’s only that sound. bum bum bum. then when they open the door, the whole vibration... when the mrt goes through... (sound) vrooom, only that sound. then i wondered, why just now i cannot enter, then suddenly i have such complete perfect experience, what is the difference? Why just now can, now cannot, then now can, just now cannot? what is disturbing the clarity? so i go through mentally the past experience. i saw someone playing basketball, i kept seeing, then i closed my eyes, only the sound, then mind body drop, then only the sound, the ball sound hitting the ground is like hitting me, that feeling, thats the experience of anatta. the 'ping pong' sound is like beating you. That time I suddenly entered into the experience of no mind, while anatta has a penetrating insight where the bond is released. (?) from just now, then suddenly the experience, the main ? what is the cause, what is the primary cause, for this entire experience to arise. i kept asking. Why this happens? then i understood that experience is not the same as insight. so u can have the experience, then the penetrating insight that sees through clearly that (?). experience is not insight. when insight comes then you will know, then it becomes natural. Insight into anatta is the realization that there is no self. What that is being described like you said, is an experience. but once u penetrate the insight then this is the experience. going further, after u see no self, then why do u (?) understand dependent origination? how this experience of total exertion,  (?) relates with ur view. (to me) now u shld have such experiences intermittently, mini ones. It will always come and then (?). until one day, that bond itself is totally gone. the idea that there is no self, the penetrating insight, it has the anatta experience does not necessarily mean that u have not (?) this bond of dependency, to understand independent of ? is also (?). therefore this feeling of total exertion never (comes about)? i realize there is the experience, when I hear the basketball, so I realize that there is an experience, and there is the penetrating insight that u see clearly then the experience becomes normal. but the penetrating insight (of anatta) itself does not include deep total exertion. (theres) some other experience, some other kind of insight that u have to penetrate. the bond is still there. that is why u come to phase 6. .. the hindrance.. like anatta experience, very normal.

Why sometimes for example you, like now, after anatta insight your experience becomes very clear right? But you are only getting very mini, like mini, like suddenly you become total activity, sometimes? On and off right? Why? So this tells us that there is this bond that you have not penetrated. I’m also the same until few years ago, I told you right, it is like that one. You have to penetrate through insight, then you see, then the experience of total exertion will come. Understand? This is not saying this state is higher or what. This bond (?) (there is no strict linear way) how it happens first. (Just that) When you release this bond, this experience will come. So the other two is (?) whatever arises, releases you. These are the three experiences that the entire (?) and the realization of it is important. It is not saying you see emptiness then it is higher than total exertion and if you see total exertion it is higher than anatta. It is seeing this bond (?) and clearly (?) so that you cannot understand. This bond to consciousness is the most important thing. Means that consciousness is like a kind of (?) hypnotism.
Do you know there is this person that does mind reading (?). He ask someone to look at three cards - a circle, a triangle, and a square. And that person sees, and he says u see this by urself these three cards right? What are they? The person replies – a circle (?), a rectangle, and a square. And he says are you very very sure? Yes I’m very sure! And he shows the three cards, and (?) eh? Its impossible (?) it was a rectangle
So consciousness is like that. It is just like when you conceive duality, subject and object, you will have no way of breaking through. It is like when someone plant a (?) inside, you cannot break through. It is a magical spell. You are unable to penetrate. ignorance itself implies deep, ignorance implies something that is very very deep. That has always been like that. Understand? So it takes many many years, just to break this simple little thing that is ? ignorance. It is just like this only. It is like me asking Mr. J, despite his 30 years of practice and he said it is nothing new, and yet it is something very very valuable. It is 30 years! Life has how many 30 years? To consciousness, that is the most important thing. You understand?

Mr. C: (?)… empty (…for a week?) then after that it’s just everything. …(? I am nothing?) then after that I am everything, I see that everything is perfect. It is a very crazy insight that everything is perfect. I don’t know how to describe.
John: I had an experience when I was 17. That time when I experienced the I AMness, then I AM Everything. At that time I very much wanted to become a monk. When I first experienced, it lasted for many days, not just (hours?) Then when it rained, I suddenly strip off all my clothes, then I go out and get drenched, and kept laughing and smiling. Because I think I am everything – I like being (dripped) by the rain. Then I thought, if there is a waterfall, I can just sit there and how nice that will be! Then I saw a dog, I really wanted to go and touch it. That was when I was 17 years old, suddenly I had this ? intoxicated. So when the bond of the consciousness is being released, (?). Then when I meditate, you will not believe the kind of bliss that I undergo. That kind of intoxication, it is just like taking drugs. For example (?) you practice vipassana, you feel every sensation, your feet touches the ground, you feel very deeply, it will come to one day you will start lucid dreaming. Like I said, I squat down, I feel the (?) very clear, so clear, I touch the floor, I can feel the entire sensation. Very real. When you practice, especially after anatta, then in this lucid dream I can pass through the wall, then I can feel the entire electric (?), then I saw a ghost I started running, then I wondered why am I afraid of it, so I just stood there and kept staring at it, I open myself and welcome it, and I can feel his sensation. (?) Vipassana. So when you practice, like him (me/Soh), everybody has different experiences. But these are just passing experiences. Like him (me/Soh), he dreamt of going up the lift, (?) but these are passing experiences. Not to be too attached.
When I lucid dream, also got a lot of people teaching me things. But I said before. Someone pushed me upwards, then the Yama said “You have not overcome death.” Then when I woke up I searched the internet, as I don’t know what is Yama? I also had many other experiences. For example I am stepping on a golden cloud, I saw the monk, the whole body is emanating golden light, then he was about to teach me, I am like very formidable, I just sat there on a golden cloud. I stared at him, then I meditated and my entire body disappears. Suddenly there is just darkness, everything becomes very silent in my dream, then the ‘I’ image completely releases and disappears. Just like you (referring to me), the state of blissful and non-dual state before waking up. Then I can meditate a few days also like that. So don’t need to be attached to these experiences. These experiences are endless. Because you have practiced before. Like I said to him (me/Soh), don’t be attached to these experiences. These are (?) a form of tendencies. But through my practice I will have many of these experiences.
Mr. C: But the problem is I never practice, hahaha
John: (?) don’t be attached to these things. I used to ask my past life. In my mind in my meditation, I saw dunnu (countless?) how many faces. Don’t be attached to these things. Otherwise you will keep asking and asking and searching for these faces. Don’t be attached to these. When you understand these experiences, let it go, let it pass. It is just a passing experience. Otherwise your entire life becomes for the search of one face. Then kalang kaboh, then your practice disappears, you only seek for the face. You understand? (?) when sitting, then the images arise like I am going through a sea, (?) also got these experience. Don’t be too attached. Don’t discuss these experiences. (focus on?) whether your insight penetrates. Some ecstasy when they arise, (?) got overexcited.

Mr. C: (his energy makes him do many spontaneous movement)… is there any way so that it is not so inconvenient.  

John: My first teacher, told me that when a person is still, there will be certain small movements. Especially when you are in a deep (?) state, there will be small movements and when your mind is being focused on these actions, it becomes like amplified, then you move along with it. But when you suddenly become conscious that time, you thought your body is (?) movement. But after that I do not have these anymore, that was 30 years ago. (?) my body kept (?) my body kept shaking, when I sit the body shakes again. I was only (?) I told my father that something is very wrong. Then he brought me to Taiwan Gao Shan Tze. Then I told him and discussed my experience. So that is what he told me. He asked other than these, do I have any other experiences? I told him that whenever I visualize Buddha, it emanates great brilliance. The teacher said at your current level of meditation, it is impossible to see lights. That is just your discursive, delusional thoughts, don’t go and think about it. But I said whenever I visualize the Buddha, it emanates great brilliance. He says it is delusion. Yet I clearly see it. After that I never (?). Then whenever I sit, I always shake.

Mr. C: but for me it is not just meditation, like even now I am still shaking.

John: then it is just like his mother (my mother).

Mr. C: I even spontaneously start chanting.

John: I used to have a friend who is also like that. That is one’s individual condition. Are you a Buddhist?

Mr. C: No.

John: Certain things, when practicing, based on insight. (?) arising and passing (A&P experiences). When your insight penetrates, these things will lessen and lessen until there is no more. But it will also produce another type of phenomena. That kind of phenomena is just like (referring to me) …of penetrating into the three states. That means like whatever dreams, you can explain your dream, it will produce that kind of phenomena that is going through the three states. Other people will not know, but you will know. But it is very very (?) like I know why this is so. Like for example, him (me/Soh), he dreamt of his teacher, li zhu lao shi. Then his li zhu lao shi is appearing everywhere, but he is not saying “his li zhu lao shi is very high stage”, so what he understood? He realized that everything is his teacher. Everything (in life) is his teacher. But he is not thinking oh his teacher’s state is super high. So he had the experience and his explanation is this. So he is able to (?) the causes and conditions. He had many (?) the penetrating insight is there. These is (?) auspicious dreams, like for now I have many (?) projects got many problems. (?) his is auspicious dreams, because of his practice (?). Then (?)

There is certain experience that there will be auspicious dreams, then you can (?) but there will come to a state (?) this clear awareness, means you are very very clear in your dream, where there is no content. This is important. He seldom experiences this (in waking life) so it becomes very important for him.  His experience was not able to enter into perfection. Like for example if I tell him certain stages, some he is very clear, but some are Samadhi states, he is not clear. He is unable to experience that kind of blissfulness. But at the dream state, he is able to experience it. So this is a very good thing.

Me: Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche says that in dream your clarity can be 7 times your waking life.

John: So, his experience (?) that is a very good sign in practice. He bypass.. he did not have the suffering. I had a period of time when I had much suffering. So he did not experience all these. So if he had one or two of these experiences it will be good. So I (now directing to me) want you to experience some state … in your realization of I AM, there is nothing to I AMness but just pure presence, where that state of mind (?) and you yourself is like melted like that, into a state of clear bliss. In your state of dream you clearly experience it. That is why I said that is an important experience of it. You never truly experience that therefore when you (?) you start (?) you have the I AM realization. You are unable to maintain them for a prolonged period of time in his experience. But in your dream, it is without content and yet you can feel the state of non dual bliss, at that point you can experience it. That is why I say you must practice. You understand?

Mr. C: (about the everything)

John: No, I want him to have an experience of being without content, without any phenomena.

Me: It is totally blank but there is a presence.

John: In the dream it is blank but there is this total presence, and this pure presence must be able to maintain and sustain for a substantial period for you to understand the bliss. When you understand that kind of bliss, then when you comment then you know the people (?) then you understand them better when you comment. Otherwise when you comment you are unable to very thoroughly (?) Simpo (?) his understanding is different.

Mr. C: but different doesn’t mean wrong?

John: It is not wrong. (?) (to me) focus on the insight, then it becomes (?) certain things if you dunno, you cannot say. Unless you are a teacher that practiced 30-50 years, you are an established teacher and face students asking all these kind of questions, and due to your practice you face so many types of phenomena. Otherwise don’t advise people on all these. Through my practice I had at least a few hundred of such experiences, yet I do not dare to say (?) Some students hear the teacher name keeps crying, (?) that kind of things, that kind of intoxication. That kind of guru yoga… from all over the world, from different culture, they have that kind of experience. It is their practice. These kinds of things, you cannot comment. You cannot because (you have certain insight?) you go and comment on these. But if you talk about insights, penetrating of three states, I can give you some advise. Because these are what I am facing everyday. Lucid dreams – I can comment. In dreams controlling yourself, these I can comment. These other phenomena, I cannot comment. Similarly for you, don’t go and comment on something that you don’t know. (?) say more than you know. Insight is different, insight is that you are very clear, because you see it, you can very clearly understand, you can comment. You know, right? After anatta is very clear, you penetrate to the dream state. Then you can control the (?) a lot of people (even after insight) cannot do this.

Me: and you said that is because of faith, sincerity,

John: sincerity, faith and your practice. Then you go into the three states. Then (?) penetrate into the three states. (?) my whole body never move, because (?) there is a type of qi ling the whole body is moving, that is the (cult leader) lu sheng yen teaches. … these kind of things you must follow a teacher who knows. (?) You cannot tell others more than necessary. Otherwise others form misunderstanding. They may think enlightened people can fly. (?) when you practice you will have such experiences. Because you practice everyday, you (?) clearer than everyone, your view is uninterrupted 24/7 it enters into the dream state, this is a very normal thing. Then suddenly your (?) Once you go into the three states, everyone is different. I can tell him (me/Soh) because his practice (?) but you tell others, it becomes a misunderstanding, they say different things. You say you do this, this, and you have this kind of experience. This is a very normal thing. You will have that kind of quality every moment. But a person in dream like in lucid dream it seems very strange, then he can always have that kind of lucid dream. Then he looks into Dream Yoga. Because he had this kind of causes and conditions. At that time I also looked into Dream Yoga, because I can control my dream, I can do what I want.

Me: Dharma Dan too.

John: yes dharma dan can also do it because he practices vipassana. So (?) … penetrate into the dream state. .. they are one you see. Then slowly you understand what is consciousness? Then after going through for 30 years you will surely experience these things, nothing special. Now you are what, 20 years old? You will have many (?) experiences, so don’t mystify it. (?) Practicing Buddhism most important thing is to learn how to let go. (?) certain things that is impossible, yet someone is able to. Like some people have very strong merit. Then the person luck (?) will change. And you cannot speak about logic. You are unable to use logic to understand what causes and conditions can bring you the kind of blessings. So don’t (rely?) on logic. Logic is based on your thinking. So I kept saying, for merit, don’t understanding (through knowledge?) you have to go and experience. Blessings have to be cultivated. You have to cultivate. (?) Outside of logic, go and experience, but not to seek after the blessings but saying in a not so nice way you want that a little (haha), go and practice, then do, then practice, and do… it is different. Some things cannot be explained. You have to do it. If someone keeps telling you, and you try to use logic, you are unable to understand. That will become your stumbling block. What humans understand is too little. You cannot say certain thing is (illogical?) and yet when you do certain things, slowly and slowly when you do it becomes part of your practice, and you will understand because you experience. You can feel the logic, you can feel the (source/force?) but it is not a logical understanding. Just like this moment of thought you cannot control. This moment of thought and next moment of thought you cannot control and yet they are linked. This moment of thought and next moment of thought creates the impression of thought. But this moment of thought and previous moment of thought aren’t the same, they cant be. This moment of thought and next moment of thought, they arise due to a cause and condition, but we don’t know what are the link. So when you do merits, you understand you need to, it is part of you, part of the natural process. So when you do merits, when you do these things, a lot of things you will understand. You understand “oh it is so”. (?)

Mr. C: (?)

John: What kind of energy? Energy from where? From your heart, from you (skull?) from where?

Mr. C: from everywhere. At one point in time (was mistaken by others to be possessed by ghost and brought to a Taoist medium…?) then (later) I found out it was kundalini, (?) so I understand this path, but right now it is the problem with energy, so when I work the mudras will come, the (?) spontaneous. So it is not so convenient. (?) it’s a different path (?) just like his mother, but a bit more intensive. (?) phenomena but it is spontaneous, it is very hard to (?)

John: you have to find a right energy master. Now I also experience energy but it is not the same as those that make the mudra etc. Partly I face sensation very clearly. Then it is being amplified. The vibration… Others won’t feel it but I feel it… in the practice.

Mr. C: I understand, so when you pass through people you can feel their vibrations

John: I can feel it. I can feel energy. I can (?)

Mr. C: Will they hurt you?

John: they will not hurt me but I can feel their energy. I can sense, the sensation. So it is not like you. Because when you practice, you become more sensitive. So you can experience the environment, the ambience, then you become clear…. Due to the clarity (?) just like the nikolai, you can view the ray of light of the rainbow etc.

…for example I go to a place. Then the place is… then I hear the baby sound, then I keep hearing the baby crying, then I can feel the pain of the baby, then I say ohh, it is the pressure that is making the baby in pain. You understand? I can feel the entire sensation of that baby. Then I can keep feeling… for example the airplane flies pass, then I can hear the sound, then I keep feeling, from the sound into the sensation, then into realizing that it is the air pressure that is making the baby pain. Feel the (?) can feel the energy.

Mr. C: (?)

John: Simpo maybe understands your situation better.

These kind of feelings, these kind of energy, I just started to practice Taichi and I feel it is not bad. So you can feel the (?) for example your mudra keep coming up, it is not due to your (?) after that you understand from moment to moment it is your past karmic conditions bringing forth your movement, that one you have to ask some other teachers (?)  … I slowly understood only 8 years ago that when the mind becomes clearer and clearer you can sense the (energy?)

Those he (me/Soh) asked are related to the phases of insights.

Mr. C: (asks how much meditation a day is good)

John: To me 45 minutes. I don’t advise people to do 2-3 hours. His (my) teacher (taiwanese teacher chen) do 6 hours a day right?

Me: I was listening to an audio last night, he said he used to sit days and nights where everything, the body, self is forgotten into Samadhi, and he only gets up to answer people’s dharma questions in short periods of time before going back to his day and night Samadhi. Just like ramana maharshi. But later on he stopped doing it as he realized it is not so normal as a Bodhisattva, one should not act abnormally but behave normally like others.

John: I tell you not to because…. You see, I always focus on penetrating insights. I do not advise certain types of phenomena that cannot be explained (?). After certain of hours, if you practice for prolonged periods months after months, you will have some weird (experiences?) that is beyond anyone. That one you may have to ask his teacher (my teacher, teacher chen) because he sits 6 hours a day. (after insight into nonduality you don’t need so much meditation?) but you still need to have some meditation, a stillness, but not for certain motives (?). So I always advise 45 minutes to get into that calmness. For nonduality it is important not to have any subject and object split from the beginning even after you penetrate, it is important for you to meditate until you have that clarity, then your insight can arise. (?) like for example your case (?) you have certain penetration of insight then you (?)

Realization: (?)

John: then it is ok. (?) once a day. Because when you (?), now for me (to enter Samadhi, it is) very fast. Very very fast. In terms of seconds, means in a state of nondual, (…forgotten body, self?). Means any moment (entering into Samadhi) it is very fast.

Mr. C: So your 45 minutes it is truly 45 minutes. Some people sit for 45 minutes (but aren’t really sitting as their minds are wandering)

John: … less than a minute I can enter into Samadhi where my mind, my body, etc is forgotten. (?) Because I sit for very long, I sit for (30 years?) so my body is accustomed to it. But wandering thoughts will always be there. Like when you hear with clarity a sound, you totally forget (?) all images of self, then very easy to (?) insight (is one thing) to settle your mind is another. Like for example him (me/Soh) he will think of going forum, answering facebook, his mind cannot calm down. You must have that taste of (peace? Bliss?) then it becomes … that is practice. If you don’t practice it is very difficult. And there must be a willingness to let go. So after your insight, you must still practice. There must be a willingness to let go of it yourself, of your mind, your body, your attachments, then it becomes (?) letting go of (?) letting go completely. this requires practice. Not only must you practice, your view must be correct. for example if you keep thinking inherently then your .. (?) thinking solidly, inherently, there, then slowly you will detach.

Then there is the experience that there is willingness to let go non-dually, then your mind your body and your spirit (?) that is important that is what I am telling you. so if you keep telling people that you self-liberate I say no, (?) because everyday you are still (thinking) of answering forum, do facebook, do this and that, MSN, etc. so you cannot (?) due to dependently originate, it is empty, (?) cannot understand what dependently originate, is nothing substantial. The mind stream is a letting go mindstream… the mind stream is still holding mindstream because the view is unable to (?)

.. the mind is unable to rest. … I have many things, a lot of people are bothering me, (?) etc but when it comes to talk I must let go, I must embrace this situation. You must come into this environment and you let go (?). When you are in this environment (…) don’t think about your things, you must let go completely, (?) more important you must have a view that a worldview. With that worldview and your experience then you let go non-dually then (?) you will keep letting go. So the bliss that you are feeling now is not liberating. It is very blissful but it is not liberating. Liberating requires you not to hold. Your mind must hold onto nothing. Whatever dependently originates (?) because your contemplation then you are releasing. You can keep talking about self liberating but you are unable to self liberate because your view and experience and realization (?) you have the view but your experience now is not enough. Once you got the experience and you got the view then you realize what the view is talking about. You got the view and keep talking about it, but you cant reach that realization. There is realization of anatta, the view, the realization. Emptiness requires you … you keep telling people insubstantial, the purpose is for your mind to be groundless, non-established, to be self releasing. So you must be able to let go. (?) like total exertion, it is easier for you to go into total exertion. But you are unable to let go. Letting go requires you to practice. this is what I want you to practice. your experience is blissful but not liberating.

Mr. C: he is still very young, (?)

John: he is very young, he needs to go through life, (?) spending his parents money he doesn’t feel the pain but when he earns money and loses his money he feels the pain.

Mr. C: if he is too young (?)

John: you have to use your life experience to understand (?) But at a certain stage you will not need to (?) you already have that taste of total sensation, then you do not even require your mind content, you don’t even require a view, it is just the experience that release itself. Then when you meet anything you also know. Then when you (?) reach a certain stage, (?) Right now I am unable to be like some people who are unable to let go. It is very difficult to meet someone who is able to let go completely. Only one who has deep wisdom is able to let go. That cannot be an ordinary person. He may not be special (?) but he has especially great wisdom. You see, (?) your relationship with your children, relation with (?) …. Is a form of attachment. But letting go is a form a natural attitude to the world. For example for my child he brings me many problems and headache but you can have  no attachments. You can have no expectation of whatever. But when you say about no expectation… you say a lot of ‘no…’ (?) ultimately it is just your understanding of emptiness of whatever things that arise including your relationships. (?) so when your view embraces, when you see relationships it is just so, when you see the formation of phenomena it is just so. Then your mind is naturally able to release. When you see phenomena and (?) is a form of cause and condition relationship. When you see the cause and fruit, it is a causally produced phenomena. The mind is able to let go. … the purest sensation you come in anatta, this thought, dependently originates and is empty. So I kept saying what you (?) been through is not necessarily liberating. Liberation requires you to have another (?) clear and vivid but it is letting go entirely. So for example ….(?) When I sit here, I let go completely.

Some people are able to do it some people are unable to. Some people are able to do it when they are born. Just like path, so in this respect she is wiser than me. She has let go. To her all these are not important. So to her mind she has very little (…) so for some they have such wisdom when they are born. They are able to let go. When they are born they have this kind of wisdom and they are ….

… but I am unable to reach this. Some people when they are born they are naturally compassionate, then when I see them I feel I am not as compassionate as them. Some people are naturally very sharp, some people are not.

Mr. C: but for him (me/Soh) to have such insight it is … (?)

John: He is quite special at this area (of insight). For other areas I am not sure. For this area he is more special. What I needed 20/15 years, I do not know why he is able to accomplish it in 1+ years.

Mr. C: (?)

John: … I had very good experience in 17… …when I realized I AMness, I go (ti guan), everyday I sleep with Indians, go Baha-I Faith (?), etc, Ramakrishna etc, the (?) Gita, Krishna Consciousness also. I always go there and sing, I never studied. (?)

(?) in a state of purity it is very rare. (?) if you want to experience the joy then you can appreciate the moment. People are always thinking of do more, speak more, but … our mouth is the worst, sickness enters through mouth, words that hurt people comes from mouth, (…) etc, all the lies, (…) from the mouth. Business is different. When you say something exaggerating it still has to be exaggerated some more, you have to lie, (…) for example if you say you do not want to involve (…?) there is no choice since you have to do these things. You can try your best to avoid (?) if you do not do, the boss asks you why you did not meet the target.

Jui asks: (? Question about samadhi)

John: actually what is more important is that background is completely gone. Then when the background is completely gone, you do not have a behind, only the sound. Then your experience becomes most direct, cannot be more direct. Then when you hear the basketball sound, bum bum bum.. only. You understand what I mean? Initially even if you have seen through, there will always be a tendency – you and the basketball. I ever went through a period where I thought that I will not have that problem anymore. After about three months later, it comes back. Then I wondered why does it come back after I have seen through? Then after that, the tendency (comes back?). for yours (me/Soh) it is quite clear, because lucid dream until one can control the three states, it is quite deep already. After the initial insight one needs 4-5 years to have that kind of calibre, you see? So some people are different. So it is sufficiently deep into the mind body tendency. For me, three months after (?) it has a dual sensation, then after still a period (?) after.

Jui: I always hear people say when you see one object you are like the object… but in my experience…

John: In your experience now, your self at the behind will be gone. But you are unable to reach completely mind to object (one pointedness). But your behind disappears. But to zhuan zhu yi ge (be absorbed in one [object]) you are unable to reach, that requires Samadhi state. That is, that behind is gone, but you are one pointed into one object, then with view you will experience maha experience, total exertion. He (me/Soh) is also the same, the behind is gone, no more self, only the sound but there is no self, there is just this, there is just that. That is because the insight has arisen but concentration (?) my way is different. Before insight of anatta I had decades of practicing meditation, then I AM, then meditation, then I AM. My practice is like that. (?) but for you guys, you see clearly first, the behind is gone and your experience becomes very clear and vivid and yet you are unable to concentrate. So you must understand that concentration is different. Peacefulness and releasing is (different), clear vivid awareness is also different. It requires different insights and practice. You still have to meditate, it is impossible that (?) you should be in this stage, you are very clear, the click click sound is felt to be very vivid, then one day you will have total exertion feeling, but you must practice releasing and concentration. When the mind is discursive and wandering, you need practice. your mindfulness/thought needs to be practiced. You need to have a stillness/Samadhi. (to me/Soh) Your stillness is still not enough. Your mind is still having thought after thought, you are unable to have stillness. But your insight is able to reach no self. You are still unable to reach stillness and releasing. It is not a matter of saying then you can reach it, it requires practice.

(Comments by Soh: before my realization of anatta I would do samatha and enter into jhanic bliss [samadhi bliss but not resting in nature of mind], afterwards it is more towards the bliss of no-self luminosity, yet samadhi is still vital)

Me: best way is to practice vipasssana?

John: Vipassana … when it becomes non conceptual and non dual, it is even more difficult like for you, your insight is there, there is no self, yet when you sit you are unable to reach it. Because you need to focus. You need to focus your breath, (otherwise?) unable to reach it. For normal people they are able to reach it even easier. For you it is somewhat more difficult. So I always tell you, for example, for you and him the way of entering is by clear luminosity… feel as clear as possible. For example when you breathe, feel your breathe entirely. So you feel very very clear, just this breath you know. Then you feel the vividness. It is easier to enter this way.

(Comments by Soh: before my realization of anatta I would do samatha and enter into jhanic bliss, afterwards it is more towards the bliss of no-self luminosity, yet samadhi is still vital)

Me: so you are advising Anapanasati?

John: yes of course, then you do many times. But when you do many times you are not counting. Don’t count. Just feel the entire sensation of the breath. You are just that sensation of your breath. Then you are so clear with your entire breath. That whole aircon that touches your nostrils, then going into your lungs. It is just this sensation. This is what we call breath. So you keep on doing. You are very aware of it. Actually it is not you are very aware of lah. This is what I call awareness and the whole thing is awareness, there is no somebody awaring. It is just breath. Then slowly you will have this (Samadhi?), you need to keep doing.