John Tan:

Anatta is just the beginning of a profound refinement of one's view into freedom from extremes (freedom from all elaborations), dependent origination and emptiness.

We will continue to balance our extreme views via the middle path of dependent arising and emptiness until we can clearly "see" that DO and emptiness of the conventional does not contradict the ultimate, i.e, the natural state of spontaneous presence, primordially pure and naturally perfection.

Many cannot clearly understand the ultimate free from conceptual elaborations lack sameness or difference, is neither parts nor whole, neither one nor many is conventionally expressed as dependent origination and emptiness.  That is y as long as u see contradiction, u r not understanding the ultimate correctly.

They clung to the ultimate, either turning to monistic substratum or nihilistic view that there is nothing at all or there is no entity or conceptual notions, then there cannot be action, activities, no cause and effect..all sort of extreme views.

That is y it is crucial to see emptiness as empty of self-nature/inherent existence rather that freedom from "conceptualities".

Self-view does not mean there is no individual stream of consciousness, it means (imo) that the conceptual mind always perceive ghost images from abstraction and reification, mistakening them as real and primary.  Then the mind cannot understand lack of these entities, how is action originated and how happenings occur because they r trapped in the framework of duality and inherency.


When she meditates, rest Z mind in openness that's all.  Don't worry about what sort of thoughts arise, let the karmic and habitual tendencies unwind themselves.  Thoughts can be wholesome or unwholesome, evil or pure, just let them release themselves, there is no need to change anything or chase after them at all.  Because we have self-view, we think that we have to do "something" about it, but what works is rather to realize their empty and dependent originated nature and let them release themselves in open radiance and spaciousness.  If this tactic and technique is unhelpful, then we have to work with wholesome thoughts into habitual tendencies, because there is no-self therefore habitual tendency works.

But that is just my view, she can try it out.

Tell Z to have more confidence with Z open  she must slowly meditate until radiance and spaciousness takeover, then that will be the turning point, when stabilized, there will be no "brain fog" and mental fatigueness, not even a minuest bit, so not to worry too much.


Not exactly, both have some very profound points.  Mipham "conceptualities" is not only referring to symbolic layering but also self-view which is more crucial.  Mipham made it very clear and said the gelug mistake "conceptualities" as just symbolic and mental overlay, which is not what he is referring then he laid down 3 types of conceptualities.  Same for dharmakirti also...there is the gross definition and the more refine definitions.


No, there r some other vital points.  Also u must not equate Tsongkhapa with later gelugpas.  But don't want to comment on other sects.

Insight of non-arisen must go right to the "presence" level, not just the mental level of conventional constructs.  Then we can have clear insight and taste on the nature of pure appearances, means though the displays cleanly and clearly appear, they r not found anywhere like mental constructs are non-arisen.

Dependent arising is not about entities interacting with other entities for "this is, that is" negates any entity-ness.  IMO DO/emptiness is the only valid and accurate conventional presentation of pure appearance/spontaneous presence when using a clumsy dualistic and inherent framework.

Consciousness is like a magical genie that kept manifesting "things" out of thin air, be it delusory conventional constructs or radiance of pure displays.  That is y despite appearing, it is not found anywhere.  Not clearly seeing this is not seeing/understanding consciousness.  🤣🤦‍♂️

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