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Today
Soh:
Hi, i think this will interest you on spiritual awakening : http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html
Mr. E:
Thank you, I appreciate the link.
I am definitely in acknowledgement and aware of these understandings, I like some of the processes they explain though in regards to Emptiness.
There’s a stage of “true emptiness” that’s incomprehensible to an extent, because it seems to be absent of even the duality of Emptiness and Somethingness, because that sort of emptiness that is the counterpart of somethingness is still experiential by consciousness.
Whereas that “true emptiness” is consciousness turning into itself to the point that it transcends the duality and there’s only _____, but even then it’s incomprehensible and unnameable, so what I’m saying doesn’t do it justice besides being a sign post of some sort
What are your thoughts?
Soh:
consciousness turning into itself nondually is what i call the I AM
it is a crucial and precious realization
excerpt from http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2019/01/no-awareness-does-not-mean-non.html
In 2009:
“(10:49 PM) Thusness: by the way you know about hokai description and "I AM" is the same experience?
(10:50 PM) AEN: the watcher right
(10:52 PM) Thusness: nope. i mean the shingon practice of the body, mind, speech into one.
(10:53 PM) AEN: oh thats i am experience?
(10:53 PM) Thusness: yes, except that the object of practice is not based on consciousness. what is meant by foreground? it is the disappearance of the background and whats left is it. similarly the "I AM" is the experience of no background and experiencing consciousness directly. that is why it is just simply "I-I" or "I AM"
(10:57 PM) AEN: i've heard of the way people describe consciousness as the background consciousness becoming the foreground... so there's only consciousness aware of itself and thats still like I AM experience
(10:57 PM) Thusness: that is why it is described that way, awareness aware of itself and as itself.
(10:57 PM) AEN: but you also said I AM people sink to a background?
(10:57 PM) Thusness: yes
(10:57 PM) AEN: sinking to background = background becoming foreground?
(10:58 PM) Thusness: that is why i said it is misunderstood. and we treat that as ultimate.
(10:58 PM) AEN: icic but what hokai described is also nondual experience rite
(10:58 PM) Thusness: I have told you many times that the experience is right but the understanding is wrong. that is why it is an insight and opening of the wisdom eyes. there is nothing wrong with the experience of I AM". did i say that there is anything wrong with it?
(10:59 PM) AEN: nope
(10:59 PM) Thusness: even in stage 4 what did I say?
(11:00 PM) AEN: its the same experience except in sound, sight, etc
(11:00 PM) Thusness: sound as the exact same experience as "I AM"... as presence.
(11:00 PM) AEN: icic
(11:00 PM) Thusness: yes”
“"I AM" is a luminous thought in samadhi as I-I. Anatta is a realization of that in extending the insight to the 6 entries and exits.” – John Tan, 2018
after that key to its full blown effortless unfolding and maturity is to bring it to the foreground in all manifestations and contemplate to realise anatta
for me the crucial thing after I AM is by focusing on the two stanzas of anatta and the four aspects of I AM as well as the two nondual contemplations
these brought me and many others to the next breakthrough
about 40+ people in the ATR community been through these phases and breakthroughts to anatta and emptiness
https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html
https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2018/12/four-aspects-of-i-am.html
https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2018/12/two-types-of-nondual-contemplation.html
wrote to someone earlier:
"
The realisation of anatta is crucial to bring that taste of non-dual Presence into all manifestations and situations and conditions without any trace of contrivity, effort, referentiality, center, or boundaries... it is the dream come true of anyone that had realised the Self/I AM/God, it is the key that brings it into full blown maturity every moment in life without effort.
It is what brings the pellucidity and beyond measure brilliance bright of Pure Presence into everything, it is not an inert or dull state of non-dual experience.
It is what allows this experience:
"What is presence now? Everything... Taste saliva, smell, think, what is that? Snap of a finger, sing. All ordinary activity, zero effort therefore nothing attained. Yet is full accomplishment. In esoteric terms, eat God, taste God, see God, hear God...lol. That is the first thing I told Mr. J few years back when he first messaged me 😂 If a mirror is there, this is not possible. If clarity isn't empty, this isn't possible. Not even slightest effort is needed. Do you feel it? Grabbing of my legs as if I am grabbing presence! Do you have this experience already? When there is no mirror, then entire existence is just lights-sounds-sensations as single presence. Presence is grabbing presence. The movement to grab legs is Presence.. the sensation of grabbing legs is Presence.. For me even typing or blinking my eyes. For fear that it is misunderstood, don't talk about it. Right understanding is no presence, for every single sense of knowingness is different. Otherwise Mr. J will say nonsense... lol. When there is a mirror, this is not possible. Think I wrote to longchen (Sim Pern Chong) about 10 years ago.” - John Tan
“It is such a blessing after 15 years of "I Am" to come to this point . Beware that the habitual tendencies will try its very best to take back what it has lost. Get use to doing nothing. Eat God, taste God, see God and touch God.
Congrats.” – John Tan to Sim Pern Chong after his initial breakthrough from I AM to no-self in 2006, http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2013/12/part-2-of-early-forum-posts-by-thusness_3.html
“An interesting comment Mr. J. After realization… Just eat God, breathe God, smell God and see God… Lastly be fully unestablished and liberate God.” - John Tan, 2012
"
"The purpose of anatta is to have full blown experience of the heart -- boundlessly, completely, non-dually and non-locally. Re-read what I wrote to Jax.
In every situations, in all conditions, in all events. It is to eliminate unnecessary contrivity so that our essence can be expressed without obscuration.
Jax wants to point to the heart but is unable to express in a non-dual way... for in duality, the essence cannot be realized. All dualistic interpretation are mind made. You know the smile of Mahākāśyapa? Can you touch the heart of that smile even 2500 yrs later?
One must lose all mind and body by feeling with entire mind and body this essence which is 心 (Mind). Yet 心 (Mind) too is 不可得 (ungraspable/unobtainable).. The purpose is not to deny 心 (Mind) but rather not to place any limitations or duality so that 心 (Mind) can fully manifest.
Therefore without understanding 缘 (conditions)，is to limit 心 (Mind). without understanding 缘 (conditions)，is to place limitation in its manifestations. You must fully experience 心 (Mind) by realizing 无心 (No-Mind) and fully embrace the wisdom of 不可得 (ungraspable/unobtainable)." - John Tan/Thusness, 2014
- http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2019/02/the-transient-universe-has-heart.html
"
John TanThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:24am UTC+08
Transmission of the "dharma eye"
Soh Wei YuThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:25am UTC+08
As in direct realization of luminosity?
Soh Wei YuThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:25am UTC+08
Or of anatta etc
Soh Wei YuThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:26am UTC+08
What do u mean by seal
John TanThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:26am UTC+08
It is seeing it alive....that is passed from lineage.
Soh Wei YuThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:26am UTC+08
and how is it different from awareness aware of itself
Soh Wei YuThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:26am UTC+08
Oic
John TanThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:27am UTC+08
Awareness aware of itself soon becomes dead...lol
John TanThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:29am UTC+08
The measure of one's depth is in the ineffability and marvelous manifestation in activity. Anatta and emptiness cannot b dead.
Soh Wei YuThursday, December 12, 2013 at 9:30am UTC+08
I see..
John TanFriday, December 13, 2013 at 9:13am UTC+08
Everytime I go tour, my Awareness just heighten multifold...lol
Soh Wei YuFriday, December 13, 2013 at 9:14am UTC+08
Cool lol ur anatta breakthrough also in korea
John TanFriday, December 13, 2013 at 9:14am UTC+08
Going back tmr
John TanFriday, December 13, 2013 at 9:14am UTC+08
Yeah and Australia
.....
i love this quote by JT
"Awareness aware of itself soon becomes dead...lol
The measure of one's depth is in the ineffability and marvelous manifestation in activity. Anatta and emptiness cannot b dead."
(JT = Thusness, my mentor. I went through same stages as him. I'm Soh btw, co-author of the blog :) )
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Meditation and Self-Enquiry
I wrote this to my mother today in Chinese about the purpose of practicing and to encourage her to meditate. English translation below.
参禅是要参究本来面目是什么，自性是什么，不是要达到一种境界
是要发现，体悟，什么是自性、觉性。要达到完全没有疑惑才是”悟”
要一切念头断后还要回光返照，我是谁？在觉知的是什么？如果有念头回答是这个那个就错，因为答案不在语言文字，所以把念头舍掉再继续参、回光返照。这是明心最直接的法。
要每天打坐，元音老人叫弟子每天打坐两小时。
如果不能把心静下来到无念，很难开悟。你要想想你最容易把心静下的方法是什么？是打坐吗？还是念佛持咒？什么方法如果能安心都可以，可是要每天修，不能断断续续。
可是无念还不是开悟，达到无念时还要回光返照，找出了了分明的是谁，是什么，才能悟到自性，不然你的打坐只是一种静态，还没悟到自性。
悟到自性后只是明心，还不算是悟性（人法二空之理、登地菩萨），还要继续。所以”明心见性”其实是两个：先明心（真心），后见性。
所以要努力修到明心见性。
六祖慧能说过：不识本心学法无益。
English translation:
Contemplating Zen [Koan] is about inquiring what exactly is our original face, what is our Self-Nature, it is not about achieving a meditative state.
It is rather to discover, to realize, what exactly is our Self-Nature/Awareness. One must reach a state of utter doubtlessness/certainty to be considered '[Self-]Realization'.
After the utter cessation of all thoughts, one must turn one's light around to find out, What am I? What is it that is Aware? If there is a thought which answers 'it is this or that' then that's wrong, because the real answer lies not in words and letters. Therefore cast aside those thoughts and continue inquiring, turning the light around. This is the most direct method to apprehend one's Mind.
You should meditate everyday. Master Yuan Yin asks his student to meditate two hours a day.
If you are unable to quiet your mind to a state of no-thought, it will be difficult to realise. You should think carefully what is the best method for you to still your mind? Is it meditation? Or is it chanting the Buddha's name and reciting mantras? Whatever methods which calms the mind will do, but you have to practice everyday, not only practice intermittently or occasionally.
However, reaching a state of no-thought is not awakening. Upon reaching a state of no-thought, continue turning the light around to find out Who is that which is the Clear Knowingness? What is it? Then you will realise your Self-Nature. Otherwise your meditation is merely a state of stillness, not yet realising Self-Nature.
Realizing Self-Nature is only Apprehending one's Mind, it is not yet realizing Nature [the nature of mind and phenomena] (the principle of the twofold emptiness of persons and phenomena as realized by a first bhumi Bodhisattva), therefore one must continue. Hence, "Apprehending Mind and Realising Nature" consists of two parts: first apprehend one's Mind (True Mind), later realize [Empty] Nature.
Therefore practice hard to Apprehend Mind and Realize Nature.
The Sixth Ch'an Patriarch said: It is useless to learn the dharma without recognising original Mind.
Furthermore:
有人问我一个问题，所以我给他发送了以下文本。你应当这样修习，并且每天都有质量的时间来冥想（观照）和修习，这将引领你到达实现的第一阶段。
Furthermore:
有人问我一个问题，所以我给他发送了以下文本。你应当这样修习，并且每天都有质量的时间来冥想（观照）和修习，这将引领你到达实现的第一阶段。
文本的一部分：
'5. Nāṉ Ār? 第6段：如果或者一旦我们的意识中出现了除了我们自己之外的任何事物，我们应该简单地将我们的注意力转回到我们自己身上，即所有其他事物（所有思想、形式或现象）出现的那个( the one to whom all other things (all thoughts, forms or phenomena) appear)
关于您的陈述，“我一直在做‘这些思想是对谁而起？’，‘对我而起’，‘我是谁？’的探询，但我不知道我还应该做什么”，这些话，“这是对谁而显现的？”、“对我而显现”、“我是谁？”是由巴格万给出的一个非常有用的指引，但我们应该清楚地理解他对这个指引的意思。他的意思不是说我们应该在任何事物出现时就重复这些话给自己听，而是说我们应该简单地将我们的注意力转回到我们自己身上，即所有其他事物（所有思想、形式或现象）出现的那个。也就是说，他并没有说‘问对谁而言’或‘问我是谁’，而是‘探究对谁而言’和‘探究我是谁’，正如他在Nāṉ Ār?的第六段以下部分中所写：
如果其他思想升起，不尝试去完成它们，就有必要探究它们发生于谁。无论多少思想升起，又有何妨？警觉地，每当一个思想出现时，如果有人探究它发生于谁，就会清楚：发生于我。如果有人探究‘我是谁’（通过警觉地关注自己，即所有其他事物出现的‘我’），心将返回到它的出生地（即自己，它起源的源头）；（因为这样一来就避免了关注它）起来的思想也会停止。当一个人这样练习并练习时，心在其出生地坚定不移地立足的能力就会增加。
他在这里使用的动词我翻译为‘探究’是விசாரி（vicāri），在某些情境中可能意味着以询问的方式探询，但在这个情境中只意味着以探究的方式探询。提问是一种心理活动，因为它涉及将我们的注意力从自己身上转向一个问题，即一种思想，因此属于除了我们自己之外的事物，所以只要我们在提问，我们仍然只是在心灵表面上漂浮，关注于除了我们自己之外的事物，而探究自己意味着深切地自我关注，这会导致心沉入深处，从而返回到它的‘出生地’，即它起源的源头，也就是我们的本质本我（ātma-svarūpa），这是我们对自己存在的基本且永恒闪耀的觉性，‘本我’。
因此，巴格万在这段话中指出的是我们应该将注意力发送的方向。而不是让我们的注意力随着可能升起的任何思想而外出，我们应该将它转回到我们自己身上，即所有思想出现的那个。‘对谁而言？’并不是我们应该问自己的一个问题，而是一个非常强大的指引，指示我们应该将注意力导向哪里。有时候，如果提问‘对谁而言？’能帮助我们想起将注意力转回到我们自己身上，那么它或许可以作为一种辅助，但自我探究（ātma-vicāra）不仅仅是提出这样的问题，而只是将我们的注意力单纯地固定在我们自己身上。
这里值得注意的另一个点是，巴格万所指的‘思想’是指除了我们的基本觉性‘本我’之外的任何事物，因此它包括所有感知、记忆、情感、想法以及任何其他类型的心理印象。正如他在Nāṉ Ār?的第四段中所说，‘除了思想之外，并没有单独的世界这样的事物’，以及在第十四段中，‘所谓的世界仅仅是思想’，所以当他在这里说‘如果其他思想升起’（piṟa v-eṇṇaṅgaḷ eṙundāl），‘每当一个思想出现时’（ovvōr eṇṇamum kiḷambum-pōdē），他的意思是，如果或者一旦我们的意识中出现了除了我们自己之外的任何事物，我们应该将我们的注意力转回到我们自己身上，即所有这些事物出现的那个。
如果我们警觉地自我关注，正如我们应该尝试的那样，我们将因此避免思想和睡眠，但当我们疲倦时我们自然不那么警觉，所以我们可能会因为尝试自我关注而睡着
您问，‘我应该整天坐着持续做自我探询几个小时吗？我应该在睡前床上也继续探询吗？或者我应该不时停止探询以让身体休息？’首先，自我探究与身体无关，所以无论身体是躺着、坐着、站着、行走还是做任何其他事情，我们都可以练习它。出于同样的原因，我们不必为了给身体休息而停止自我关注，因为自我关注以任何方式都不会使身体感到紧张。事实上，当身体和心灵正在休息时，对我们来说是非常有利的条件来自我关注。
关于您在睡前床上继续练习的问题，这也是好的，但由于我们通常在那个时候非常疲倦，我们通常在尝试自我关注后不久就沉入睡眠。这没有害处，因为当我们需要睡眠时我们应该睡觉。没有时间和情况不适合我们自我关注，所以无论时间或情况如何，我们都应该尽可能地尝试自我关注，但我们不应该试图剥夺自己所需的睡眠量。
如果我们警觉地自我关注，正如我们应该尝试的那样，我们将因此避免思想和睡眠，但当我们疲倦时我们自然不那么警觉，所以我们可能会因为尝试自我关注而睡着。正如Sadhu Om经常说的，当我们困倦时我们应该睡觉，因为当我们再次醒来时我们会感到清新，我们应该利用那种清新尝试警觉地自我关注。
我不知道我在这里写的任何东西是否对您有用，但我希望其中的一些至少可以帮助指引您正确的方向。
‘我’这个词本质上指的只是那个觉性，所以如果我们只是在觉知那在觉知的，我们就在冥想（观照）‘我’
作为对我的第一个回复（我将其改编为前六节）的回复，我的朋友再次写信讲述他尝试自我探询的做法和他面临的问题，我回复道：
当您说‘自我探询的实践，特别是坐姿（只是觉知那觉知/觉性，不在任何对象或形式上冥想等，仅仅是存在，甚至没有“我”在“我是”中）提升了我的昆达里尼能量’时，我不清楚您实际上在实践什么，因为您说您‘只是觉知那觉知/觉性’，但似乎又说您甚至没有在‘我’上冥想（观照）。冥想（观照）‘我’意味着只关注自己，换句话说，就是自我关注，所以如果您没有在‘我’上冥想（观照），您所说的‘只是觉知那觉知/觉性’是什么意思？
在这个语境中‘觉性’意味着那个觉性，而那个觉性总是以‘我’自觉于自身，所以‘我’这个词本质上指的只是那个觉性。因此，如果您没有在‘我’上冥想（观照），您所觉性的‘觉性’是什么？不幸的是‘觉性’是一个可能引起歧义的术语，因为它可以被理解为对象或现象的觉知，所以当您‘只是觉知那觉知/觉性’时，您只是在觉知那觉知/觉性，即您自己，还是在觉知您对对象或现象的觉知？
如果您只是在觉知那觉知/觉性，即您自己，那么您就在冥想（观照）‘我’。也就是说，您冥想（观照）的不是‘我’这个词，而是‘我’这个词所指的，即您自己，那个觉性。如果您没有在冥想（观照）‘我’这个词所指的，那么无论您所觉照的‘觉性’是什么，都是除了那个能觉知的觉性之外的东西。
这就是为什么巴格万给了我们强大的指引‘对谁而言’，我在我前一个回复中写过。如果我们正确理解这个指引，它是在指导我们的注意力回到我们自己身上，即所有其他事物出现的那个。换句话说，它是在指引我们的注意力回到那个觉性，远离我们此前所觉知到的任何事物。
如果您觉知到任何现象，例如您的昆达里尼能量的提升，您的注意力就已经从您自己那里转移开了，所以您需要将它转回到您自己身上，即所有现象出现的那个。如果您将注意力转回到自己身上并坚定地持有自己（也就是，如果您只是坚定地保持自我关注），无论出现了什么现象都将因此消失，因为没有任何现象能在您的觉性中出现或保持，除非您至少在一定程度上关注它。
无论什么可能分散我们的注意力或看起来对我们构成问题，让我们不要关心它们，只是耐心地和持续地尝试自我关注，不理会一切其他事物
关于您的昆达里尼能量的提升，您说，‘提升的意思是我感觉到脊柱中有一股能量通过脉轮流动’，但能量、脊柱、脉轮以及能量的运动都是对象或现象，所以您应该通过尝试热切地自我关注来忽略所有这些事物。无论这些事物如何出现，它们都不应该是您关心的对象。它们对谁而显现？只对您，所以您应该只是坚持尝试只关注自己。
无论什么出现或消失都是除了我们自己之外的，所以它们不应该引起我们的兴趣或关心。这些事物只有在我们对它们感兴趣或关心它们的程度上才会分散我们的注意力并成为我们的问题。我们为什么要关心它们？我们唯一的关心应该是探究和了解我们自己是什么。如果我们对任何其他事物都不感兴趣或不关心，我们就不会关注它们，因此它们就不会成为问题。
如果我们发现自己因关心这些事物而分心，那是因为我们的viṣaya-vāsanās（外向的欲望）的力量，而减弱我们的viṣaya-vāsanās并从而使我们的心摆脱对所有其他事物的兴趣的最有效手段就是坚持这个简单的实践，即自我关注。因此，无论什么可能分散我们的注意力或看起来对我们构成问题，让我们不要关心它们，只是耐心地和持续地尝试自我关注，不理会一切其他事物。
7 Comments
Soh Wei Yu
The above instructions is suitable for someone seeking to have the initial breakthrough, what I call the I AM realization.
On the other hand, also today, someone else told me after realizing the I AM he was still struggling.
He said,
"Yes,
my perception is the "true self" is an unchanging ground of being in
separable from all, both nothing and everything, all forms yet formless,
however even this is saying too much. It can be pointed to but not put
into words and concepts
...
at
this point for me, there still seems to be a back and forth between an
imagined self and awareness. a thought will arise, awareness arises
destroying the though, i rest in awareness again - repeat.
i
am unable to rest in "knowing i am not the thought" permanently. the
mind forgets...until it remembers and when it does all content falls
away
so there is this back and forth between identifying with the awareness and identifying with the mind going on at the moment
ive read the links you provided they are highly detailed thank you
that
may be beyond me at the moment i have a solid theoretical understanding
and have been looking at my mind for years now, however the habit of
mind identification is strong
...
i have [realised Self]
but this is forgotten in times of emotional distress - it seems like the default so to reidentify with the mind
there is no doubt of the absolute here
at all - nothing"
