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At this phase, the construct of duality and the construct of inherency still remains strong. As such, I see 1) an inherent awareness 2) awareness is the ultimate observer of objects, and I am that all-pervading awareness, I am not the objects - the objects are objects happening to/in awareness, and awareness is like a vast container for them to arise and subside.
This phase continued for the next six months where the insight and experience of I AMness deepened in terms of the insight and experience of impersonality, where everything is seen to be the spontaneous manifestation and doings of an impersonal source. The feeling is one of being lived by a higher power, rather than my life being controlled or lived by an individual self. Due to the experience of impersonality, there is the impression that consciousness is universal and everyone comes from the same source. There was also the refining of that insight and experience in terms of the intensity of luminosity, seeing through and dissolving the need to abide, and there was effortlessness. The meaning of these terms are explained in more details in the book as you read on. So these four aspects are the 'refining factors of the realization of I AM' and is what eventually led to further non-dual insights. That said, in the I AM realization phase, due to the lack of insights, I was skewed into trying to abide more and more as the I AM/the Witness and trying to make this abidance constant.
In August 2010, while dancing and just immersing myself into the movement, the music, and sensuousness of everything, I experienced non-duality very intensely and effortlessly as the sense of self just dropped off. Although I have had non-dual glimpses (lasting only a few moments usually), this was different as it became very effortless and uninterrupted for the next few days. Everything was very intense, blissful, and luminously present - and it was not because of alcohol or mind-altering drugs ... the subsidance of the sense of dualistic construct is very blissful, and this bliss and clarity did not just stop - it became a perpetual experience in daily life. At this point, Awareness is seen to be seamless by nature. I no longer see and experience Presence and Awareness as a formless background to everything. In fact, it is seen that there is no division between the observer and the observed - I am the seeing, the hearing, the smelling, the tasting, the touching, everything arising moment to moment, there is no separate self or experiencer, there is only that - and that is non-dual presence. However, the construct of an inherent awareness is still strong, and as such, I see 1) an inherent awareness 2) awareness is not divided from all manifestations. In other words, I see everything as the manifestation of the same aliveness/awareness, that manifestation IS Awareness itself, and Awareness is seen as a seamless undivided field of being in which everything is equally an expression of, and not other than, this field of aliveness/awareness/consciousness. As such, the purpose of practice is no longer geared towards achieving a constant, 24/7 abidance in the purest state of Presence, the Self. Rather, seamless and effortlessness is discovered to be totally non-dual and seamless with/AS all manifestations, rather than abiding in a purest formless Presence. At this point, I keep questioning myself, "Where does awareness end and manifestation begin?" and the answer to this is a non-conceptual, borderless, centreless, seamless field of undivided presence in which everything is included AS non-dual presence. All sense of a subject and object, inside and outside, Witness and witnessed, have collapsed into nondual Awareness.
In October 2010 by the contemplation of Bahiya Sutta while I was marching (was enlisted last year for a mandatory two year military service), I realized Anatta. The contemplation of 'in the seeing just the seen, in the hearing just the heard' as Buddha instructed Bahiya triggered that realization. As such, I no longer see an agent that perceives, i.e. an Awareness. I realized that there is no agent that perceives at all, no subject to be found. In seeing, there is only just the seen, the scenery - the seeing IS the seen, the seeing IS the scenery. There is just scenery - and that alone is the seeing. There is no seer, no agent, no perceiver behind perception. Only always just perception without perceiver. Everything is just happening, and there is only the happening without anything behind or hiding. There is no "seamless field of aliveness" because aliveness is simply these everchanging and ungraspable sensations arising and subsiding each moment. Just thoughts, sensations, sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, that's all. Phenomena manifesting. The entire process itself rolls and knows, there is no knower. There is no Awareness that is one with its perceptions. There is just perception, the perception itself is its knowing. Because there is always only arising phenomena, there is no such thing as 'unicity'. There is no awareness to be united with objects, no mirror that is one with its reflections. There is no subject to begin with that could be inseparable with its objects. There is always only phenomena. However when I said ‘No Awareness’ I don’t mean there is no awareness, or that there is just a blank, a nothingness. What I mean is that awareness, or the nature of mind, is empty of any entity – it is empty of a self, just like the word ‘river’ cannot be found to have an entity apart from the activities of flowing, and the word ‘wind’ cannot be found to have an entity apart from the activities of blowing, the same as the case for ‘Knowing’ or ‘Awareness’, therefore it is like the 3rd Karmapa saying, “All phenomena are illusory displays of mind. Mind is no mind--the mind's nature is empty of any entity that is mind. Being empty, it is unceasing and unimpeded, manifesting as everything whatsoever.”
A few months later, even though it has been seen that ‘seeing is always the sights, sounds, colours and shapes, never a seer’, I began to notice this subtle remaining tendency to cling to a Here and Now. Somehow, I still want to return to a Here, a Now, like 'The actual world right here and now', which I can 'ground myself in', like I needed to ground in something truly existing, like I needed to return to being actual, here, now, whatever you want to call it. At that point when I detected this subtle movement I instantly recognised it to be illusory and dropped it, however I still could not find a natural resolution to that.
Prior to this insight, there wasn't the insight into phenomena as being 'scattered' without a linking basis (well there already was but it was not strong enough to remove the subtle view or construct of an inherent ground that remained)... the moment you say there is an ‘Actual World Here/Now’, or a Mind, or an Awareness, or a Presence that is constant throughout all experiences, that pervades and arise as all appearances, you have failed to see the 'no-linking', 'disjointed', 'unsupported' nature of manifestation – an insight which breaks a subtle clinging to an inherent ground, resulting in greater freedom.
Therefore, this ‘insubstantial, disjoint, unsupported, bubble-like, non-solid, spontaneous, self-releasing’ nature of activities was revealed as a further progression from the initial insight into Anatta which was still skewed towards non-dual luminosity and being grounded in the ‘Here/Now’.
So... that's the story so far anyway. I claim no finality in the spiritual journey. And since I see reality as a process, I do not make neo-Advaitic claims like 'oh the time bound story is just relative stuff and actually all there is is Here/Now' - there is no inherently existing 'Here/Now' at all, there is just phenomena rolling on its own accord and telling its story but without a self at the center claiming ownership of the process (and yet using personal pronouns is unavoidable for convenient communication - I don't want to sound like a weirdo for using impersonal pronouns) And yet since reality/phenomena is as ungraspable as lightning strikes, no phenomena including enlightenment could be captured or clung to. (Yet this traceless clarity – empty luminosity – continue to manifest every single moment as the diverse, myriad experiences of life! All moments of life are an authentication of our Buddha-nature.) So I always refer back to what Zen Master Dogen wrote:
To study the Way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be enlightened by all things of the universe. To be enlightened by all things of the universe is to cast off the body and mind of the self as well as those of others. Even the traces of enlightenment are wiped out, and life with traceless enlightenment goes on forever and ever.
Some people experience non-dual but do not go through the I AM, and then after realizing non-duality the I AM becomes even more precious because it brings out the luminosity aspect more. Also, when in non-dual, one can still be full of thoughts, therefore the focus then is to experience the thoroughness of being no-thoughts, fully luminous and present... then it is not about non-dual, not about the no object-subject split, it is about the degree of luminosity for these non-dualist. But for some monks that is trapped in luminosity and rest in samadhi, then the focus should be on refining non-dual insight and experience. For non-dualists, depending on the level of understanding, one can move forward and backward, there is no hierarchy.
So just see the phases as different aspect of insights of our true nature, not necessarily as linear stages or a 'superiority' and 'inferiority' comparison. What one should understand is what is lacking in the form of realization. There is no hierarchy to it, only insights, all of which are important. Understanding this means that one will be able to see all stages as flat, no higher.
Lastly, I see enlightenment as nothing mystical. It is simply the lifting of veils by practice and insight to reveal subtler aspects of reality. Once we lift conceptual thoughts, we discover I AM. Once we lift the bond of duality, we experience and discover non-dual awareness. Once we lift the bond of inherency, we experience and discover the absence of agent and a wonderfully luminous yet empty universe occuring via dependent origination.
May all beings be free and liberated like birds flying in the sky, leaving no tracks. May you become traceless and incomprehensible in this life.
Taken from a great blog http://themindfulmoment.blogspot.com/
Who Am I?
Over the years, as I meditated, I started to notice how the mind itself displays very similar characteristics to aspects of nature. And over time I started to use metaphors to describe aspects of the mind to people to make it easy to understand. For example, the mind itself displays very similar characteristics to the sky. It is vast and expansive and no matter how far you go you never actually perceive any boundaries. If you throw a ball through the sky it passes through unattached. Clouds arise out of nowhere and disappear again as if they never existed - effortlessly, silently, and without resistance - much like the nature of thoughts in the mind. The mind also reacts to the environment and displays symptoms of cause and effect - when we perceive something, thoughts or emotion arise with them in a dance of interaction. Ideas are born into the mind out of nowhere much like a new seedling is born and later it will die away like a fading flower. This ability for the mind to display characteristics of nature always fascinated me.
While meditating yesterday a deep insight came over me ... the mind doesn't display these characteristics because it is similar to nature, the mind displays these characteristics because it is nature, it is all these things, it is everything. It was so simple. The mind is not made from some "other" component, it is not made from something that you can strive to understand or experience separate from everything else, the mind quite literally is This, is everything that you are experiencing now. It behaves in the same way as the sky, as clouds, as the wind because it is bound by the same laws that bind everything else and it is made from the same stuff that everything else is made from. There is no difference.
How to Apply This
Now those sound like really wise words and if you pick up any spiritual book you'll read lots of stuff like that. But this doesn't really help you at all and me saying it doesn't really help you understand or make your life better. You can read a tonne of spiritual books that talk about this concept and you'll feel good reading it and it will inspire you to want to know more but its kind of useless if you doesn't lead you to experience this for yourself.
In many traditions you'll see this idea being expressed. In Buddhism they ask "What is your true nature?" or "What is your true name?". You don't have to think about it. Just stop again for a second, feel yourself breathing, look around, notice the sensations in your body. Yes, this is your true nature. Christ said "I am the way, the truth, and the life". This is the same point. Breath again for a second, relax and be aware ... this is truth ... seeing, hearing right now ... this is the life ... breathing, feeling, practising being mindful ... this is the way. This direct experiencing in this moment is the way. Who is God? Return to the direct experiencing of life again, be aware, feel your breath ... This is God. This is death. This is the Tao. This is eternity. This is life. This is enlightenment.
Looking around, breathing, experiencing, being aware ... ah yes, this is Me!
But this is not the "me" I use to know, this is not the "me" we colloquially or conceptually know, this is not the small "me". This is the "no me", the big Me that is everything. The "I" as I knew it before is just a drop in an ocean, why call itself any different? With this view a profound peace pervades Me, why struggle or resist the meditation practice? How can I deny it at all? This is like denying truth, this is like denying the way It is. I must meditated because this is the way it is, this is truth, this is also is what I am, what I am made of, what My nature is. This is Me!
Taken from a great blog http://themindfulmoment.blogspot.com/
Quietening the Inner Chatter - Part 1
We quickly realise as much as we want it to stop it just seems to keep going. We try frantically to find ways to quieten the mind but none of it seems to make the slightest bit of difference. We'll typically at this point turn to all kinds of external means to find some peace and we'll drown it out with social activities, making ourselves busy, through entertainment media like TV, radio, music, x-box or even alcohol and drugs. These only serves as a means of distracting us from the noise. As soon as we remove the distraction the noise and inner chatter is back as loud as ever. Actually over time doing these distraction techniques just make the inner chatter worse by perpetuating the cycle. So how do we stop it? Well really the secret is not to stop it, I'll explain more as we go.
If we are lucky, in our search for a solution, we may eventually stumble across meditation. The common problem is people try it and think that meditation is about stopping the thoughts. It's a very common misconception and unfortunately leads a lot of people to try it and then walk away thinking it didn't yield any results. This is why I'm writing this article, to help bring some understanding to what is happening here. People often read a few blogs, a website or two, a book maybe or chat to someone about the basics of meditation and then sit down to try meditation only find it doesn't work. Or so they think!
In talking to people about meditation I find lots of people have tried it. This is really heartening to see. You can see they too are seeking some peace and along the way have tried meditation as a means of finding this peace. One of the main recurring themes I hear is that people say "Oh I tried meditation but it didn't work" or "I couldn't do it". My immediate response is usually "This is like water saying, I just don't know how to be wet". It's impossible for meditation not to work!! It has to work because it is by it's very fabric the nature of all things, including ourselves, our minds and consciousness. I'll explain this below as we go.
Momentum
It is important to take a step back and ask ourselves first "What has lead me to have this mind and all this inner chatter?" and to really evaluate what is going on. It is through wanting, conceptualising, grasping, categorising, judging, pushing away, and thinking about everything we experience in life that our minds become busy. In our day to day we have a thought arise about every thing little, every teeny tiny thing and what we think about it, how we feel about it, what it means to us and how we can get more of it or get away from it. Through this there is a perpetuating cycle of mind busyness which over times results in a momentum all of it's own. It's like a freight train that's been gathering more carriages along its journey. The heavier it gets the harder it is to stop. After a while it has so much momentum that even when the train driver sticks on the brakes the train will just keeping on skidding and take a long time to come to a stop!!! Our minds are just like this. We stick on the brakes expecting it to stop and, "Holy crap! It's still going!"
What is Meditation About?
So we have to be very clear, meditation is not about stopping thoughts. We cannot approach meditation with another "want", but often this is exactly what we do. "I want to do meditation to find some peace" or "I want to do meditation to be happy" or "I want to do meditation to stop this inner chatter in my mind". Again however this is the same cycle we just stated above. In doing so we've just approached meditation in the same way we've approached everything else in our lives, and in trying it like this we continue to perpetuate the cycle of inner chatter. So of course we walk away thinking "Well that stinks, it doesn't work". Meditation is not about getting what you want, meditation is about letting go. As you do this thoughts stop by themselves!
Ajahn Chah's has a little book of quotes called No Ajahn Chah: Reflections in which he says:
Remember you don’t meditate to "get" anything, but to get "rid" of things. We do it not with desire but with letting go. If you "want" anything, you won’t find it.By this he doesn't mean to get rid of something we don't want or we remove something that we want to get away from. He's not saying to get rid of the inner chatter or noise.
I'll explain exactly how that works in Part 2 and then in Part 3 what we can do to quieten the inner chatter, the common trap and how to apply this. Check back tomorrow for Part 2.
Quietening the Inner Chatter - Part 2
The Builder and the House
There is good metaphor which will help explain this. Our minds are like little construction workers, always building building building. We build ideas and thoughts about everything, over time we construct this big house called "me". At some point we start to not like the house we are in so we think "Okay, I'm not enjoying this any more, I want out of this house!!". So we immediately get to work on building another house in hope that moving into it will somehow make us happier. "I can't stand this house any more, I want a new house" or we think "If I can just change this thing room here, add this modification on there, then I'll be happy". We mistakenly think happiness will be bought about by changing something external to us. So we get busy, thinking, building, analysing the past, thinking about our future, complaining about what we don't like about our current house, thinking about how we want life to be, trying to think our way out of our current situation and how we can get the house to be just like we want it to be. Then we focus desperately on how we can get into the new house. So eventually we think we've found the answer, we abandon the current house, move in and for a few days or weeks we think it's perfect. Then looking around we realise we moved all our crap into this house too and it's full of the same junk we had in the last house!! It just moved with us! Then after a while we begin looking at the new house and start thinking "You know, this house really could do with ...." and it all starts again.
This clearly isn't the answer but interestingly we'll repeat this process in all areas of our life for many, many, many years in hope that it will eventually yield some results. Holding onto hope keeps us stuck, we hold out hope that eventually it will work, in this way we stay stuck. We are like a car stuck in the mud, with our foot constantly on the accelerator spinning our wheels getting more and more bogged.
Slowing Down Takes Time
The other thing to consider, like the momentum of the heavy freight train, is that it is going to take time to stop. If you’re 20, 30, 40 or 50 years old, then you’ve been supporting and building a world of inner chatter over all those years. You can’t just sit down to try meditation and expect it to stop right away. Again, life just doesn’t work like this. For example, think of the flower again. If we stop watering a flower it doesn’t die straight away, it will take a week or two. All things are like this, they take time to cease. We are the same with our inner chatter.So typically we approach meditation with the same incorrect assumption we hold about life, that things will just stop instantly. We want instant results and so we expect life to be the way we want it to be. In doing this we ignore and don’t respect these laws that all things are bound by, and in doing so we create conditions that support the perpetuation of inner noise. The process is so obvious, so inherent in our nature, that we simply just don’t notice it. In reality you could say it is so obvious that in growing up with it since a baby we don’t notice the obviousness of it any more. However, all it requires is for us to look around and observe the way everything works. You can see this truth right there in everything around you.So in Part 1 I explained how inner chatter is a problem and what the effects are like. In Part 2 we talked how that problem functions and in Part 3 I’ll discuss what we can do to quieten the inner chatter, how that healing process works, a common trap to look our for and how to apply this. Check back tomorrow for Part 3.
Continuing on from yesterday's article Quietening the Inner Chatter - Part 2, we were saying that the inner chatter is reliant on certain conditions that support it's existence and that it, like everything else, obeys natural laws that all things abide by.
So if you want peace of mind, don't focus on getting peace. If you want happiness, don't focus on getting happiness. You have to focus on meditating diligently and letting go of the house you've build up around you. As the house decays and dies and collapses peace and happiness is revealed.
One Step Further Down the Rabbit Hole
While the above focuses on how meditation breaks down the structure, as we meditate we start to notice something interesting. The letting go happens all by itself. If we try to let go, it doesn't seem to happen. "Okay, let go now. No no, I mean, I'm over this, you can let go!" It doesn't work.Why is this? Letting go isn't something we do, it's something that occurs when there is mindful awareness. As soon as there is awareness, letting go occurs because we start to see clearly the very nature of things. In this awareness we see them for what they are, in doing so they freed from the condition that kept it perpetuating and that kept us bound to it. Examine any regular life example you've had in which you later let go of what bothered you and you'll discover this was the process. This is because awareness itself is condition-less, is empty and has no enduring substance. It is the true nature of existence. Going back to the above we said that in doing meditation we remove the conditions that supports the existence of the inner chatter. This is because awareness itself is condition-less and in meditating and being aware the things in our lives (like inner chatter) cease to have anything to interact with, that is, their conditions for existence are removed.
The awareness itself is like pulling the rug out from underneath everything. So all we need to do to reveal peace and happiness is return as often as possible to this mindful awareness. In doing that our life transforms all by itself. Simply by placing awareness on anything it is eventually seen for what it truly is and it passes. It quite remarkable really. Another way to say this is, in seeing anything clearly it ceases to exist, it is let go, and to see things clearly you need to be aware.
If you are meditating and have inner chatter then notice the inner chatter and acknowledge that there is a supporting set of conditions to it's existence. Don't engage in the chatter no matter how convincing it seems, just simply notice it and return to the meditation. Again, in doing this we remove the underlying conditions of the chatter itself. Over time the chatter quietens down.
I hope this article has helped to clarify why we have inner chatter and helped to bring some understanding to the process of quietening it down and how meditation helps.
If you have any comments or questions please feel free to add them below.


Note: You can also see my complete journal of self-discoveries at http://www.box.net/shared/3verpiao63
Thanks for the sharing...Originally posted by simpo_:Hi Beautiful951,
Firstly, I will like to state that I am still learning so can only share from my own opinion. Please read with a pint of salt.
Emptiness is not a belief but an insight that can be borne from experience. It is better to experience it for oneself as before and after the insight, it can still be 'unbelievable' for the mind. Emptiness is quite hard to experience and usually the realisation of no-self comes before emptiness.
As mentioned, no-self will be easier to realise. I will describe the insight of no-self/egolessness generally here. When doing insight meditation one may realise that the sensory experiences (including mental formation/thinking) are arising and passing away independently of one another. That is, seeing is seeing, hearing is hearing, thinking is thinking and they are all flowing independently. With that observation, one will realise that there is no self holding all these sensory experiences together. Self that we originally assumed, is just these sensory experiences arising and passing away and the attention focusing on them.
As for emptiness, it requires a deeper penetration into consciousness. Emptiness reveals that everything is not physical and solid at all... but are 'holographically united'. There is no way to accurately describe it as it is not the way a mind unaware to it will think. Like the first insight of no-self, emptiness is a paradigm shift... towards ever clearer seeing of the truth of Reality.
Please understand that seeing emptiness is not end of story. At least, not for my case. I am currently working on the remaining defilements. This doesn't meant that i will need to forcefully remove them. Forceful willing will only result in suppression. Rather, the 'method' is to be aware of and be equanimous to whatever that is arising in order for them to pass away naturally. This 'aware of' is not as easy as it sounds.
Regards
I was reminded of Bahiya Sutta while you said 'seeing is seeing'...
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2008/01/ajahn-amaro-on-non-duality-and.html
In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.
Since, Bahiya, there is for you
in the seen, only the seen,
in the heard, only the heard,
in the sensed, only the sensed,
in the cognized, only the cognized,
and you see that there is no thing here,
you will therefore see that
indeed there is no thing there.
As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
betwixt the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.” (ud. 1.10)
-----
My own comments:
Non-duality is very simple and obvious and direct... and yet always missed! Due to a very fundamental flaw in our ordinary dualistic framework of things... and our deep rooted belief in duality.
In the seen, there is just the seen! It is completely non-dual... there is no 'the seen + a perceiver here seeing the seen'.... The seen is precisely the seeing! There is not two or three things: seer, seeing, and the seen. That split is entirely conceptual (though taken to be reality)... it is a conclusion due to a referencing back of a direct experience (like a sight or a sound) to a centerpoint. This centerpoint could be a vague identification and contraction to one's mind and body (and this 'center of identification within the body' could be like two inches behind your eyes or on the lower body or elsewhere), or the centerpoint could be an identification with a previous nondual recognition or authentication like the I AM or Eternal Witness experience/realization. It could even be that one has gained sufficient stability to simply rest in the state of formless Beingness throughout all experiences, but if they cling to their formless samadhi or a 'purest state of Presence', they will miss the fact that they are not just the formless pure existence but that they are/existence is also all the stuff of the universe arising moment to moment... And when one identifies oneself as this entity that is behind and separated from the seen, this prevents the direct experience of what manifestation and no-self is.
But in direct experience it is simply not like that: there is nothing like subject-object duality in direct experience.... only This - seen, heard, sensed, cognized. Prior to self-referencing, this is what exists in its primordial purity.
So, in the seen, there's just That! Scenery, trees, road, etc... but when I label these as such, instead of putting a more subjective term such as 'experiencing'.... they tend to conjure images of an objective world that is 'out there' made of multiple different objects existing in time and space separated by distances.
But no, the Buddha says: in the seen, just the seen! There is no thing 'here' (apart from the seen).... nor something 'there' (as if the seen is an objective reality out there). From the perspective of the logical framework of things, the world is made of distance, depth, entities, objects, time, space, and so on, but if you take away the reference point of a self... there is simply Pure Consciousness of What Is (whatever manifests) without distance or fragmentation. You need at least two reference points to measure distance... but all reference points (be it of an apparent subjective self or an apparent external object) are entirely illusory and conceptual. If there is no 'self' here, and that you are equally everything... what distance is there? Without a self, there is no 'out there'...
The seen is neither subjective nor objective.... it just IS....
There is pure seeing, pure hearing, everything arising without an external reference other than the scenery being the seeing without seer, the sound being the hearing without hearer (and vice versa: the hearing being just the sound, the manifestation).
But even the word 'hearing', 'seeing', 'awareness' can conjure an image of what Awareness is.... As if there is really an entity called 'hearing' or 'seeing' or 'awareness' that remains and stays constant and unchanged.
But.... if you contemplate on "How am I experiencing the moment of being alive?", or, "How am I experiencing the moment of hearing?", or "How am I experiencing the moment of seeing?" or "How am I experiencing the moment of being aware?"
All the bullshit concepts, constructs and images of an 'aliveness', a 'hearing', a 'seeing', an 'awareness' simply dissolves in the direct experiencing of whatever arises... just 'seeing is seeing, hearing is hearing, thinking is thinking and they are all flowing independently', with 'no self holding all these sensory experiences together'.
If readers find my explanation a bit too hard to grasp, please read Ajahn Amaro's link because he explains it much better than me.
Note by Soh:
The article above was written by me shortly after my initial realization of Anatta/Anatman (No Self) in October 2010. Below are some additional insights from Thusness/John Tan that can further enrich the experiential insight presented above:
(Taken from Thusness's Conversations Between 2004 to 2012 https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2019/01/thusnesss-conversation-between-2004-to.html)
Thusness
541 posts since Dec '04
17 Oct `10, 12:42PM
Hi AEN,
Just managed to scan through the past few posts you wrote. They are quite insightful. In summary you are beginning to experience the ‘taste’ you described in the “certainty of being” of the formless presence in transient phenomena. That is what I meant by bringing ‘this’ from the background (formlessness) to the foreground (forms). It is also what I meant by the ‘fabric and texture of Awareness’ in forms. Below are some of the points that came to mind after reading them. I will just jot down some of them for sharing purposes.
One Taste
You mentioned about ‘one taste’ but do take note that what you are experiencing is just the ‘same taste’ of luminous essence, not the ‘same taste’ in Emptiness nature. I use the term ‘essence’ differently from Dzogchen. In Dzogchen, luminosity is the ‘nature’ and Emptiness is the ‘essence’. As I see Emptiness as the absence of an essence in whatever arises, I do not feel appropriate expressing the Dzogchen way.
“Obvious and direct…yet always missed!”
I like how you expressed it, it is quite apt. However I sense that you may have underestimated the power and full meaning of ‘deeply rooted in consciousness’. If we are unaware of the impact, we will not realize what is meant by ‘latent tendencies’. Try imagining ‘someone’ standing right in front of you yet you are unable to see him because you are under a magical spell that is planted in the deep most of your consciousness. If you are unaware of the latent deep, whatever realized is merely a surface understanding. Day in day out, these tendencies are always in action. You may want to ask yourself will the latent deep find its way up even in a PCE mode?
Feels Universe, Pure Consciousness, Pure Aggregates
“You are not just the formless presence/knower/consciousness... you are all forms, you are the universe univers-ing, you are whatever is arising moment to moment as a complete non-dual experience in itself... There is no background awareness and foreground phenomena happening in awareness... there is simply foreground pure consciousness always, be it the pure existence experienced in a formless mode (e.g. I AM, aka the 'thought realm' as Thusness puts it), or in all forms... the making of a non-dual experience into a background is simply trying to capture and reify a moment of pure consciousness.”
I remember writing this to Simpo few years ago in his forum. It is related to his experience of ‘feeling light and weightless’. This also relates to mind-body drop and your dream about ‘transparency’. Being ‘light, weightless and transparent’ is the result of dissolving the body-construct. It is quite an obvious contrast moving from ‘Self/self’ to no-self. Prior to what you have written you should also experience this, otherwise you are being too focused on being ‘brilliance and luminous’ of the 'actuality'.
On the othe hand, feeling ‘universe’ has to do with the deconstruction of ‘identity’ and ‘personality’. You have to have clearer insight of what ‘deconstructions’ leads to what experience.
The text in bold is quite well expressed but knows the dependent originated nature of consciousness. There is the experience of primordial purity of the aggregates and 18 dhatus but there is no 'a substratum background' that is called 'pure consciousness'. The sense of self is dissolved and is replaced by a sense of inter-penertration.
. 4. No agent and the intensity of luminosity
In the seen, there is just the seen! It is completely non-dual... there is no 'the seen + a perceiver here seeing the seen'.... The seen is precisely the seeing! There is not two or three things: seer, seeing, and the seen. That split is entirely conceptual (though taken to be reality)...
Well expressed! But in the subsequent paragraph, you said,
“All the bullshit concepts, constructs and images of an 'aliveness', a 'hearing', a 'seeing', an 'awareness' simply dissolves in the direct experiencing of whatever arises... just 'seeing is seeing, hearing is hearing, thinking is thinking and they are all flowing independently', with 'no self holding all these sensory experiences together'”
In the article on http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html, I mentioned about the 2 stanza. There is the no-agent aspect and there is the intensity of luminosity aspect. I find that your present experience is still centered on the luminosity aspect. You are directly experiencing seamlessness of any happening where no clear line of demarcation can be drawn between the subject-object split. You realized the boundary is purely illusionary and is clear about the cause that resulted in such division but still, that is not the ‘essence’ of an experiential insight of anatta in my opinion. There is a difference in saying "there is no split between thinking and thinker, the thinking itself is 'me'" and "there is thinking, no thinker". You must be aware that having immediate and direct experience but with dualistic framework intact and complete replacement of the dualistic framework entirely with DO (dependent origination) yields very different experiential insight; you may want to investigate further and move from "they are all flowing independently" to "manifesting in seamless inter-dependencies."
"How am I experiencing the moment of being alive?" (HAIETMOBA)
But.... if you contemplate on "How am I experiencing the moment of being alive?", or, "How am I experiencing the moment of hearing?", or "How am I experiencing the moment of seeing?" or "How am I experiencing the moment of being aware?"
"How am I experiencing the moment of being alive?" (HAIETMOBA) is the key question of the AF. I will not comment on it but how does it differ from the question “Without using any symbols of ‘I’, how is ‘I’ experienced?” Also how it differs from the question “Who am I?” -- the question that led you to the realization of “I AM”.
As you get clearer and clearer where exactly are all these questions leading you and the mode of perception that are involved in I AM realization and PCEs, you will have to asked yourself sincerely is this the ultimate mode of perception that will lead you towards genuine freedom. Is being lockup permanently in PCE the way towards liberation and how it differs from seeking permanent uninterrupted abiding in “I AMness”.
Edited by Thusness 17 Oct `10, 4:35PM