[7/11/22, 1:26:14 AM] John Tan: Is this true in ur experience?

[7/11/22, 1:26:40 AM] John Tan: If yes y and is no y?

[7/11/22, 1:55:49 AM] Soh Wei Yu: lol so different

[7/11/22, 1:56:08 AM] Soh Wei Yu: anatta and twofold emptiness is direct insight into emptiness of inherent existence and duality simultaneously

[7/11/22, 1:56:26 AM] Soh Wei Yu: also why objectless awareness

[7/11/22, 1:56:30 AM] Soh Wei Yu: sounds like those awareness practice

[7/11/22, 1:56:36 AM] Soh Wei Yu: and very different from mahamudra also

[7/11/22, 1:56:59 AM] John Tan: Lol👍 so what r the issues?  Y is mipham saying that?

[7/11/22, 1:57:00 AM] Soh Wei Yu: "At that point, is the observer—awareness—other than the

observed—stillness and movement—or is it actually that stillness and

movement itself? By investigating with the gaze of your own awareness,

you come to understand that that which is investigating itself is also

no other than stillness and movement. Once this happens you will

experience lucid emptiness as the naturally luminous self-knowing

awareness. Ultimately, whether we say nature and radiance, undesirable

and antidote, observer and observed, mindfulness and thoughts, stillness

and movement, etc., you should know that the terms of each pair are no

different from one another; by receiving the blessing of the guru,

properly ascertain that they are inseparable. Ultimately, to arrive at

the expanse free of observer and observed is the realization

of the true meaning and the culmination of all analyses. This is called

“the view transcending concepts,” which is free of conceptualization,

or “the vajra mind view.”

"Fruition vipashyana is the correct realization of the final conviction of the nonduality of observer and observed."

Khamtrul Rinpoche III. The Royal Seal of Mahamudra: Volume One: A

Guidebook for the Realization of Coemergence: 1 (p. 242). Shambhala.

[7/11/22, 1:57:49 AM] Soh Wei Yu: I think he is distinguishing the nominal ultimate and non nominal ultimate.. forgot the term

[7/11/22, 1:59:54 AM] John Tan: He is but y he can't get that "absence" of inherent existence can also dissolve "duality"?

[7/11/22, 2:00:25 AM] John Tan: In fact much easier.

[7/11/22, 11:13:02 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Im not sure why.. why do you think?

[7/11/22, 11:14:32 AM] John Tan: Use ur experience to see through and tell me.

[7/11/22, 11:15:22 AM] John Tan: How is it diff from ATR approach?

‎[7/11/22, 3:01:18 PM] Soh Wei Yu: ‎image omitted

[7/11/22, 3:01:37 PM] Soh Wei Yu: To me this part is emphasizing reverting to the I AM to have initial realization of nondual presence

[7/11/22, 3:14:39 PM] John Tan: Not exactly

[7/11/22, 10:52:30 PM] Soh Wei Yu: mipham sees inherent existence as negated through analytical reasoning path

[7/11/22, 10:52:47 PM] Soh Wei Yu: whereas AtR begins with stanzas, so inherent existence is seen through in direct path like mahamudra:

[7/11/22, 10:53:31 PM] Soh Wei Yu: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/08/thrangu-rinpoche-on-nature-of-mind.html

Thrangu Rinpoche:

In the Vajrayana there is the direct path to examining mind. In everyday life we are habituated to thinking, "I have a mind and I perceive these things." Ordinarily, we do not directly look at the mind and therefore do not see the mind. This is very strange because we see things and we know that we are seeing visual phenomena. But who is seeing? We can look directly at the mind and find that there is no one seeing; there is no seer, and yet we are seeing phenomena. The same is true for the mental consciousness. We think various thoughts, but where is that thinking taking place? Who or what is thinking? However, when we look directly at the mind, we discover that there is nobody there; there is no thinker and yet thinking is going on. This approach of directly looking in a state of meditation isn't one of reasoning, but of directly looking at the mind to see what is there.

Source: Shentong and Rangtong

[7/11/22, 10:53:57 PM] Soh Wei Yu: to me analytical path alone wont have the sort of sudden awakening like anatta

[7/11/22, 10:54:32 PM] Soh Wei Yu: maybe like what you said "Actually anatta is a good direct method of pointing, analysis can later be used to support this direct experiential insight.  Not easy for the path of analysis to trigger such insight.  It will have to have a sudden leap or break-through much like koan"

[7/11/22, 10:55:09 PM] Soh Wei Yu: without that sudden leap of breakthrough, the understanding of emptiness is still inferential and wont be able to breakthrough duality in a direct realization of the nature of consciousness

[8/11/22, 1:21:33 AM] John Tan: Very good.  U must see the difference.  The method of pointing is the issue, not the view.

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